HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB Minutes 2008-08-05FILE�U
DATE -[)ff�D v
PLANNING BOARD
TOWN OF ITHACA
21 North Tioga Street
August 5, 2008
Present: Rod Howe, Chair; Members: George Conneman, Larry Thayer,
. A Susan Rjha, Kevin Talty, Hollis Erb and Fred Wilcox
Staff: Daniel Walker, Town Engineers Mike Smith, Environmental Planner;
Chris Balestra, Planner; Guy Krogh, Attorney for the Town, Paulette
Neilsen, Deputy Town Clerk
Others: Rick Couture, Ithaca College; David Herrick, TG Miller; Peter
Trowbridge, Trowbridge & Wolf ; Dean Robinson and Jacob Mejsler,
Ithaca (for ERUV); Joel Harlan, Newfield
Chairperson Howe opened the meeting at 7:01 p.m.
Persons to be heard
There was no one wishing to address the Board at this time.
Chairperson Howe announced the first agenda item at 7:02 p:m.
SEAR and Public Hearings Consideration of Preliminary and Final Site Plan
Approval and Special Permit for modifications to the proposed Remote Parking
proiect as part of Phase 1A of the Ithaca Colleae Athletics and Events Cpntpr
Project, located on the Ithaca College Campus, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No 41-
1 -30.2, Medium Density Residential Zone. The proposed modifications include
new plantings in the median island at the Danbv Road entrance to the College,
relocation of the existing campus directory that is located just south of the new
"F" Lot, the addition of a vehicular pull -out along the Danbv Road entrance, and a
new visitor booth and widened entrance at the "throat" of the "F" Lot extension.
Ithaca College, Owner /Applicant, Richard Couture and Peter Tmwhridnp onpn +c
David Herrick, TG Miller; Rick Couture, Ithaca College, Peter Trowbridge, Trowbridge
and Wolf
Mr. Herrick — I thought it would be helpful to put this proposed modification into context
with respect to the work that is presently ongoing on the campus. The F -Lot extension
which used to be the former tennis courts at the Danby Road entrance was part of your
original preliminary and final site plan consideration earlier this year and it then came to
our attention that the College had more definitive plans for how they could use that new
F -Lot extension and it led to the modification that you have before you tonight. With
respect to the physical limits of F -Lot extension as you originally approved it, all we've
done is to add a 6 -foot wide island in the entrance drive to that parking lot, and that will
accommodate the installation of a manned visitors' booth so there will be somebody
during certain hours of the day there that can direct people to use the lot and then give
them direction across the balance of campus. There are some other additional
FINAL PB 8.5.08
Pg. 2
modifications that are being proposed, and I'll let Peter Trowbridge speak to what those
are within the vicinity of the F -Lot. But again, it's very simplistic what has been done
within the F -Lot extension itself by adding the 6 feet. Rick couture was going to explain
to you the genesis for this new visitor lot.
Mr. Couture — Just to follow -up a little bit about what David said; As we took a look at
that F parking lot, which was the former tennis courts, and tried to vision, in conjunction
with the Gateway Building, which is going to be our main Welcoming administration
building, and looking at the current location of our visitor parking lot, which is now down
by the Abbott's Field and the Abbott's Field extension, it just made a lot of sense
intuitively to us to try and see if we could get that F -Lot turned into a visitor parking lot
because we envision most people, as you go, will be coming in through the 9613- Danby
Road entrance and part of what Peter is going to talk about is: we'd like to get
permission to put a pull -off along the main entrance to the College with the College map
and kiosk that we want to move from where the tennis courts used to be. And then it
just made a lot of sense to us that people would view that map, go up the road a little
bit, make a right -hand turn and go into the visitor parking lot so they could go into the
Gateway Building which is going to be where most folks, from Admissions, the main
Administration will be, and where folks will get a lot of information. So it just made
sense to us to try and make that our visitor parking lot and that's why we're coming in
with the proposal that we have in front of you tonight.
So now I think Peter is going to talk a little bit about some of the changes that are
happening as part of this proposal:
Mr. Trowbridge — Thanks Rick. We're going to step through these drawings just the
way you have them in your packet, so they're understandable. As David Herrick said,
this is the parking lot that you previously approved. The second drawing then
demonstrates the additional improvements. Primarily to hardscape, then we will talk
about landscape. So there are really three pieces that you heard. There is a visitor
traffic booth, the pull -off and directory and some new landscaping in the island at the
entrance.
So the second drawing in your packet, what you're seeing really are the difference
between what you approved previously and what we are bringing before you tonight.
Again, as David said, there's about 6400t width change in the throat to the parking lot,
otherwise the parking lot is identical to what was previously approved. However, as
most of you know if you've driven up, there's currently a directory out in this location and
it's really not very functional. You have to know where it is in order to stop there and get
way- finding and orientation. So we felt it made a lot more sense as you were coming in
off Danby Road, it would be right there. There is a shoulder, as you know, to that
ingress into the Campus so we really are not grading out a big area. What we are doing
is a part of this ... there's a concrete lined swale. We will be taking that out and actually
culvertizing it so the reality is, there is no landscape at that entrance. What is now a
stretch of concrete gutter, we will be replacing that and landscaping that over. There
will be a pull -out for about 4 or 5 cars, not that we expect that many. At that location the
existing directory is then moved back. So someone could get oriented before they get
on Campus. There will be a sign, too, for visitors to direct them to the parking lot and
FINAL PB 8.5.08
Pg. 3
then as David said, there will be a personed booth at that location so someone during
business hours could get better direction. If someone did go to the lot and wanted to
walk back to the directory, we've provided a walkway, so if they drove by it, parked, they
could walk back to the directory and get orientation.
We did add a small stretch of sidewalk on the southeast side of the circle and what that
allows us to do is have a continuous sidewalk between the sidewalks associated with
the F -Lot extension and the new sidewalks that are going in with the Gateway Building,
the Administration and Admissions Building. So there is a continuous walkway all the
way to the new entrance to the Gateway Building by adding this additional stretch of
walkway around the circle.
So, again, these are the two primary improvements that you see in this plan...
Chairperson Howe — Peter, quick question; since you said people may walk back to the
sign, will the directory be on both sides?
Mr. Trowbridge — No, the walkway takes them to the front, so you actually walk around.
There is the third drawing ... we provided shows you a drawing of how that would work.
So you can.., you would walk on this walkway and then stand in the same orientation
that somebody would if they got out of their car to see the directory. And as you know,
the Ithaca College directory is there. They are electrified so they should be able to be
seen all hours of the day. Otherwise, lighting stays the same, curbing, paving in the lot
are all identical. We did provide a grading plan that's not terrible important other than to
know that everything drains positively and we have appropriate topography7 in the area.
The next drawing demonstrates additional landscaping, and as most of you know, a lot
of the black pine all across New York State, but in particular at Ithaca College, most of
the evergreens were Austrian Pine and they all got Deplodia and have subsequently
disappeared. The College has put some new evergreens in but they are pretty spare.
So the idea is to create a much more all- season display at the entrance to Ithaca
College which would be great. We are trying to choose a lot of plants that are deer
resistant and also, because we culvertized a part of that gated swale, we are able to get
more landscaping associated with the directory and we did add a few more shade trees
associated with the parking lot in addition to the planting in the center of the lot and the
bio- swale. So we get a little bit more shade from the south and over all, I think it just
gives a better impression from the entrance.
We do have a photograph of what the directory currently is and that's a relocated
directory. While we don't have specific architecturals of the visitor booth, it would be
very similar to the current visitor booth at the visitor lot as it now exists.
So I think that's a good overall impression of what we are intending to do.
Board Member Wilcox — The existing visitor booth over by the practice field, will that be
removed?
Mr. Couture — There's no need for us to actually move (inaudible) ... student parking lot.
FINAL PB 8.5.08
Pg, 4
Board Member Thayer - If a visitor misses the directory for some reason, you're going
to have a sign so he doesn't drive around the circle, that he turns right there?
Mr. Trowbridge Yes, we'll have a sign to the visitor parking lot, so if someone drives
by the directory, they'll still be directed, via signage, to the visitor lot. And again, as I
think Rick said, it's pretty intuitive, it's the first parking area that you would come to on
Campus versus the current visitors lot which is a bit remote. This is really where people
want to park, especially if they're going to Central Administration or Admissions, which
are probably the biggest group of onetime visitors to Campus that may not know where
they're going.
Board Member Conneman — I applaud you for having a convenient place to park. There
are some great universities that don't have that and there are some other universities
that do that very well. I always remember being in Arkansas one time and they had it
and I thought, "man, this is good."
Mr. Trowbridge — Yeah, and they probably don't charge at Ithaca College either to get
on Campus.
Bantering and laughing going on, not audible.
Chairperson Howe — Any other questions?
Board Member Talty — I'd like to say that it's great that you're tying in the sidewalks.
Mr. Trowbridge — Yeah, and we will have dropped curbs again. I think there are a lot of
people, sometimes, especially in Administration, if they're coming to make a
presentation, many people bring pull - behind LCD's and laptops and such so even
though they may not have disabilities, there's a lot of real traffic that goes between the
visitor lot and central administration.
Chairperson Howe — I assume you've seen a copy of the proposed resolution, ,there is
a condition "submission of an updated SWPPP."
Mr. Trowbridge — David can speak to that, but I believe David provided that information
today, it's just probably late getting to the Board.
Mr. Smith — The SWPPP part of it was provided today, I think the erosion and
sedimentation control plan still needs to be provided.
Mr. Trowbridge — That's right.
Mr. Herrick — Details during construction for temporary controls, right.
Mr. Walker — It's not much different than the original disturbance, so.. we'll be fine with
that.
FINAL PB 8.5.08
Pg. 5
Chairperson Howe — I think before we do SEQR, we'll just open it up to the public and
do them together. If you want to have a seat...
We will open the public hearing at 7:15 p.m. on the consideration of Preliminary and
Final site plan approval for the modifications for the remote parking. Is there anyone
who would like to address us on that issue, if you would please come forward.
Joel Harlan, Newfield
Anything is an improvement for this. I wish they'd get going and get it started on, this
project, but, there's time to get down to the final T, but, anything, if they could improve it
more better to satisfy you, I'm all out for it. What's bad is when I see these colleges
getting 150 - 200 -300 thousand square foot buildings, what get's me is they're
downsizing Walmart to...
Chairperson Howe — Do you have any other comments for this...
Mr. Harlan — you know what I mean. Its local people that need stuff and these college
kids get everything...
Chairperson Howe tries to keep Mr. Harlan on topic and thanks
him for his comments.
Chairperson Howe — We will close the public hearing at 7:18 p.m. Is there a motion on
the ... and since we are down one member, Kevin will be a full voting member tonight.
Hollis and Susan ... all those in favor... unanimous.
ADOPTED RESOLUTION. PB RESOLUTION NO, 2008 - 065
SEQR
Preliminary and Final Site Plan & Special Permit
Ithaca College F -Lot Extension Modifications
Tax Parcel No. 41 -1 -30.2
Town of Ithaca Planning Board
August 5, 2008
Motion made by Hollis Erb, seconded by Susan Riha.
WHEREAS.
1. This action is consideration of Preliminary and Final Site Plan Approval and
Special Permit for modifications to the proposed Remote Parking project as part
of Phase 1A of the Ithaca College Athletics and Events Center project, located on
the Ithaca College Campus, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 41 -1 -30.2, Medium
Density Residential Zone. The proposed modifications include new plantings in
the median island at the Danby Road entrance to the College, relocation of the
existing campus directory that is located just south of the new "F" Lot, the
addition of a vehicular pull -out along the Danby Road entrance, and a new visitor
FINAL PB 8.5.08
Pg. 6
booth and widened entrance at the "throat" of the "F" Lot extension. Ithaca
College, Owner /Applicant; Richard Couture and Peter Trowbridge, Agents, and
2. The Town of Ithaca Planning Board granted Final Site Plan Approval for the
Remote Parking project (including F -Lot) as part of the Phase 1A of the Ithaca
College Athletics and Events Center project on May 20, 2008, and
3. This is an Unlisted Action for which the Town of Ithaca Planning Board is acting
as Lead Agency in environmental review with respect to Site Plan Approval and
Special Permit, and
4. The Planning Board, on August 5, 2008, has reviewed and accepted as
adequate a Short Environmental Assessment Form (EAF) Part I, submitted by
the applicant, and Part II prepared by Town Planning staff, drawings titled
"Layout Plan" (L201), "Detailed Layout Plan" (L202), "Grading Plan" (L301), and
Planting Plan & Details" (L401), dated 7/7/08, prepared by Trowbridge & Wolf
and T.G. Miller P.C., and other application materials, and
5. The Town Planning staff has recommended a negative determination of
environmental significance with respect to the proposed Site Plan Approval and
Special Permit;
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED:
That the Town of Ithaca Planning Board hereby makes a negative determination of
environmental significance in accordance with Article 8 of the Environmental
Conservation Law and 6 NYCRR Part 617 New York State Environmental Quality
Review for the above referenced actions as proposed, based on the information in the
EAF Part I and for the reasons set forth in the EAF Part II, and, therefore, a Draft
Environmental Impact Statement will not be required.
A vote on the motion was as follows:
AYES: Howe, Thayer, Conneman, Riha, Talty, Erb and Wilcox.
NAYS: None
The motion passed unanimously.
Chairperson Howe .- Are there any changes to the proposed resolution? We don't need
to change anything even though you saw some material today? Just leave it as it is?
Mr. Smith — Yes, it's fine.
Chairperson Howe — Would someone like to move the resolution?
Board Member Wilcox — For preliminary and final and special permit?
Chairperson Howe — Yes.
Board Member Wilcox — So moved.
Chairperson Howe — Seconded by George
you.
FINAL PB 8.5.08
Pg. 7
All those in favor ... it's unanimous. Thank
ADOPTED RESOLUTION. PB RESOLUTION NO. 2008 an 066
Preliminary and Final Site Plan $ Special Permit
Ithaca College F -Lot Extension Modifications
Tax Parcel No. 41 -1 -30.2
Town of Ithaca Planning Board
August 5, 2008
Motion made by Fred Wilcox, seconded by George Conneman.
WHEREAS:
1. This action is consideration of Preliminary and Final Site Plan Approval and
Special Permit for modifications to the proposed Remote Parking project as part
of Phase 1A of the Ithaca College Athletics and Events Center project, located on
the Ithaca College Campus, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No, 41 -1 -30.2, Medium
Density Residential Zone. The proposed modifications include new plantings in
the median island at the Danby Road entrance to the College, relocation of the
existing campus directory that is located just south of the new "F" Lot, the
addition of a vehicular pull -out along the Danby Road entrance, and a new visitor
booth and widened entrance at the "throat" of the "F" Lot extension. Ithaca
College, Owner /Applicant; Richard Couture and Peter Trowbridge, Agents, and
2. The Town of Ithaca Planning Board granted Final Site Plan Approval for the
Remote Parking project (including F -Lot) as part of the Phase 1A of the Ithaca
College Athletics and Events Center project on May 20, 2008, and
3. This is an Unlisted Action for which the Town of Ithaca Planning Board, acting as
lead agency in environmental review with respect to the project has, on August 5,
2008, made a negative determination of environmental significance, after having
reviewed and accepted as . adequate a Short Environmental Assessment Form
Part I, submitted by the applicant, and a Part II prepared by Town Planning staff,
and
41 The Planning Board, at a Public Hearing held on August 5, 2008, has reviewed
and accepted as adequate, drawings titled "Layout Plan" (L201), "Detailed Layout
Plan" (L202), "Grading Plan" (L301), and "Planting Plan & Details" (L401), dated
7/7/08, prepared by Trowbridge & Wolf and T.G. Miller P.C., and other
application materials, and
FINAL PB 8.5.08
Pg. 8
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED:
That the Planning Board hereby grants Special Permit for the proposed modifications to
the Ithaca College F -Lot Extension project finding that the standards of Article XXIV
Section 270 -200, Subsection A — L, of the Town of Ithaca Code, have been met,
AND BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED:
1. That the Town of Ithaca Planning Board hereby waives certain requirements for
Preliminary and Final Site Plan Approval, as shown on the Preliminary and Final
Site Plan Checklists, having determined from the materials presented that such
waiver will result in neither a significant alteration of the purpose of site plan
control nor the policies enunciated or implied by the Town Board, and
2. That the Town of Ithaca Planning Board hereby grants Preliminary and Final Site
Plan Approval for the proposed modifications to the Ithaca College F -Lot
Extension project, as shown on the drawings titled "Layout Plan" (L201),
"Detailed Layout Plan" (L202), "Grading Plan" (L301), and "Planting Plan &
Details" (L401), dated 7/7/08, prepared by Trowbridge & Wolf and T.G. Miller
P.C., subject to the following conditions:
a. submission of record of application for and proof of receipt of all necessary
permits from county, state, and /or federal agencies, and
b. submission of an updated Stormwater Pollution Prevention Plan (SWPPP)
and Erosion and Sediment Control Plans reflecting the proposed changes,
for review and approval of the Town's Director of Engineering, prior to
issuance of a building permit, and
c. submission of one original set of the final site plan drawings on mylar,
vellum, or paper, signed and sealed by the registered land surveyor(s),
engineer(s), architect(s), or landscape architect(s) who prepared the site
plan materials, to be retained by the Town, prior to issuance of a building
permit.
A vote on the motion was as follows:
AYES: Howe, Thayer, Conneman, Riha, Talty, Erb and Wilcox.
NAYS: None
The motion passed unanimously.
Chairperson Howe announces the next agenda item.
FINAL PB 8.5.08
Pg. 9
PUBLIC HEARING: Consideration of a recommendation
to the Town of
Ithaca
Zoning Board of Appeals regarding sign variances for
the construction
of an
ERUV (symbolic fence) by the Center for Jewish Living at
Cornell University.
The
construction of the ERUV involves the vertical attachment
of lechis (plastic
poles)
to the side of approximately 75 utility poles in the Town
of Ithaca Utility
poles
are owned by NYSEG and Verizon Within the Town of Ithaca the ERUV route is
approximately two miles in length and would run along
Pleasant Grove
Road,
Forest Home Drive Caldwell Road, Dryden Road, Pine
Tree Road, and
Maple
Avenue. Center for Jewish Living at Cornell University Applicant: Rabbi
Jason
Leib and Dean Robinson, Agents.
Dean Robinson and Jacob Meisler, Agents, Center for Jewish Living
Chairperson Howe — Christine, I assumed you learned a lot putting this together and I
am sure we are going to have questions. Is there a presentation from anyone this
evening? I just want to say that we are not here to decide whether we think the correct
determination was made whether these were signs or not. We are to view these
basically that they are signs. So we are here to make a recommendation to the Zoning
Board whether we would ... you see the resolution is very straight forward... "Town of
Ithaca Planning Board, acting as the Town of Ithaca Sign Review Board, hereby
recommends the ZBA approve the request for sign variances for the vertical placement
of the poles." Do you want to say something Fred?
Board Member Wilcox — Oh yeah. First of all, that's a resolution that's drafted for our
convenience. (others- Right). I think it is well within this Board's jurisdiction to, for
example, determine, excuse me, to recommend to the ZBA that it is not a sign. It think
that's a perfectly reasonable determination for this Board to make.
Board Member Thayer — We can make the recommendation.
Board Member Wilcox — Anything we do is a recommendation because it's the ZBA. I
mean, just because we have a drafted resolution that says XYZ, doesn't mean we have
to do that.
Chairperson Howe — I stand corrected.
Mr. Krogh — You can make that recommendation, but once the Code Office makes an
interpretation of the zoning law, this Board in particular, is generally bound by it and it is
the exclusive jurisdiction of the ZBA to review that. But any Board, Town Board, anyone
in the Code Office can provide recommendations to make sure there's coordinated
information so the ZBA has all the input.
Board Member Wilcox — The ZBA will have to make a determination. One, that these
are signs, and if they are, to either grant or not grant the variance. They could make the
determination that they aren't signs and therefore allowed. Since we are only making a
recommendation to the ZBA and not a determination, we could, we could conceivable
recommend that the ZBA consider them not to be signs, right? Right Guy?
FINAL PB 8.5.08
Pg. 10
Mr. Krogh — You could. If you did, I basically would say, I would add to a resolution
where you're addressing the ultimate issue of the ZBA that the ZBA is not to consider it
material or as evidence, but can take into account the opinion of various...
Board Member Wilcox — Others. Right. Okay.
Chairperson Howe — Now that we have that ... do you have a brief presentation? And
then Christine is also...we can ask questions of Christine for clarification, but, please,
introduce yourselves.
Mr. Robison — I am one of the agents acting on behalf of the Center for Jewish Living at
Cornell University. This is Jacob Meisler. I should convey also apologies on behalf of
Rabbi Leib, he has been compelled to go to Chicago this evening, so he can't be here.
Probably the submission that we made is fairly comprehensive and I don't really see
any need to reiterate the entire detail on this issue. I gather most people have already
read it. So it is probably easier to address questions.
Suffice it to say that (inaudible) would probably welcome a recommendation that the
Eruv lechis, the plastic poles that we intend to attach to utility poles aren't signs
because it seems it would make it easier for everybody, especially with regard to setting
precedents to this sort of business that was discussed in the Memo. Having said that,
we will be happy with either resolution that allows us to start construction of the project.
As I understand it, as you mentioned, this committee is essentially a gatekeeper for the
ZBA with regard to the sign law.
Chairperson Howe — Yeah, gatekeeper might not be the right word but we certainly are
the ones that make recommendations.
Board Member Wilcox — Part of the bureaucratic nightmare of having to go to two
Boards.
Mr. Robinson — So I think that I ... I at least hope that the diagrams and details that we
provided to you with regard to exactly what we are attaching to the poles was clear. If
you'd like, I actually have some samples I can give to you if you would like to see...
Chairperson Howe — We always like that.
Mr. Robinson — Essentially what we
each of 80 poles oriented so that they
to form a set of symbolic doorframe
called an "Eruv". So I suppose I shop
very, very strange and bizarre project
thankful for your...
are attaching is electrical conduit to the side of
sit underneath wires on the poles and the idea is
which together form this magical, virtual fence
ild thank you for all bearing with what must seem
that we are attempting to build, and we are very
Chairperson Howe — We don't view it that way at all. I mean, interesting did not mean
to convey strange.
Mr. Robinson — Strange in the (inaudible) foreignness.
FINAL PB 8.5.08
Pg, 11
Board Member Erb — Excuse me. That's actually a piece of black and the material
provided, I'm reading a page that says that grey will be used.
Mr. Robinson — I probably should have added the proviso like they have on children's
toys, that "colors may vary ". Verizon and NYSEG, we've contracts now with Verizon
and they have fairly strict provisions on what you can and can't put on the poles and
what needs to be on the poles, and what doesn't. I think they are generally happy with
either grey or black and it will ultimately be up to the contractor which materials he uses.
I suspect he may end up going with the black, but it's ... If you have a preference... It will
depend on what he can get in terms of supply.
Board Member Erb — But it's basically going to be one of these two colors?
Mr. Robinson — Yeah.
Board Member Riha — Is there some reason it couldn't be an identical color to the pole?
Mr. Robinson — Well, I suppose it's really just restricted with what's commonly available
in terms of common electrical supplies. So I don't know if they supply that type of
conduit in a wood type shade. If it is available I have no objections to doing that, but I
think that, from what I understand, I think Verizon would prefer it to be black or grey
mainly because they also inspect it afterwards to make sure it adheres to their
regulations.
Chairperson Howe — And how long are they?
Mr. Robinson — So there are two sizes. At minimum, they will be 40" high and in some
cases we, for various technical reasons, the pole has to sit underneath the wire in a
vertical sense, so some cases where utility poles are bent, it's necessary to put the
tubing up a little bit higher to guarantee that it sits underneath. So in that case, I think it
will be higher. I think that Verizon requires that. it be no more than 12" or something like
that, above the lowest wire on the pole.
Board Member Thayer — Are you going to put them up with like a c -clamp or how are
you going to attach them? And will it be the same color as the plastic?
Mr. Robinson — Uhmmm ... I believe the attachments are probably just going to be a
metal flange of some type. Whatever the standard for attachment for that type of
material. I believe it's actually specified by...
Board Member Talty — They're probably galvanized, aren't they?
Mr. Robinson Yeah, it will be galvanized.
Board Member Wilcox — I assume they would have to meet either NYSEG or Verizon
regulations and...
Mr. Robinson — Right. Yeah.
FINAL PB 8.5.08
Pg, 12
Chairperson Howe — For what it's worth, I actually don't view them as signs, but...
Board Member Riha — Oh I do. I do see them as signs, but, I mean, they either have to
be signs or fences....
Board Member Erb — I view them as fence posts, frankly...
Board Member Riha — Well, then that seems like it gets even more complicated, so...l
think the least.. ,they're either signs or fences...
Chairperson Howe — I don't think they're either.
Board Member Riha — Well, I mean, they have to be something.
Board Member Talty — They have to be something, Rod, you cannot not have
something and have something.
Board Member Wilcox — This has really been interesting. I have actually a statement
and I have some questions for you too. The issue was made, isn't this like a fence?
And the answer to me is, no, it's not like a fence. A fence is on your own property and
you put up a fence to either get privacy or to add some amenity to your property like a
white picket fence that looks nice, or you erect it to keep your dog or your cattle or your
horses or hopefully your buffalo on your property. Which didn't work in Ulysses, by the
way, so ... But these are off - premise, which I think is the big difference. I was talking to
somebody who knows a lot more about this than I do, and she said to me "the plastic
poles communicate information using a language that most people don't understand."
And that's what summed it up for me. Because most people...
Board Member Riha — So it's a sign.
Board Member Wilcox — Right. I agree it's a sign. I looked at it and looked at it and I
agree it is a sign and the interpretation of the zoning ... yeah, I agree it's a sign. Having
said that, I have a couple of questions. How was the Eruv boundary determined?
Mr. Robinson — It's based on several different considerations ... one is ... I mean, the
reason that we are building an Eruv is mainly to accommodate the students at Cornell
University and local, nearby members of the Orthodox Jewish Community. So the Eruv
was chosen based on technical considerations, where it was and wasn't possible to put
this ... bodies of water, cemeteries and these sort of things create difficulties, because
the purpose of the Eruv is to essentially declare a region to be a common, private
domain. In other words, this is where people live, it's not where they do business. For
example, you will notice that the Commons is excluded from the Eruv for this reason.
So, it's actually based on ease of construction, technical considerations according to
Jewish law, and also in order to accommodate the maximum number of people that we
could.
Board Member Wilcox — That explains why East Hill Plaza is excluded as well. The
intent is clearly not to be able to grant somebody the ability to go to East Hill Plaza and
FINAL PB 8.5.08
Pg. 13
go shopping. It's to perform other functions. Okay. Maintenance. Who is responsible
for maintenance of these once they go up?
Mr. Robinson — Okay. I believe in the contracts that we have with NYSEG and Verizon,
we are responsible for maintenance. As part of Jewish law, we actually have to check it
once a week anyway...
Board Member Wilcox — I did the reading, you know, and when I read ... and I also know
that there is Jewish law and then there is Jewish law and there's various ... I don't know
if I know the word...
Board Member Talty — Interpretations...
Board Member Wilcox — Yeah, we'll accept that ... and what I read was that if a single
wire goes down or one of these is broken, then the Eruv technically doesn't exist.
Mr. Robinson — Correct.
Board Member Wilcox — So someone is supposed to go out and check them every
Friday before the Sabbath, are you actually going to do that?
Mr. Robinson — Yes, absolutely.
Board Member Wilcox — Will NYSEG then allow you to then repair...
Mr. Robinson — Okay, so, the issue of repair...it's actually something that we sort of
didn't want to get ahead of ourselves. Most likely, I mean, it's built to be ... I mean;
attaching plastic poles in this manner, it's partly done because it's hard for it to fall over,
right, I mean, the only thing you're depending on is the plastic attachment of the plastic
pole. So if it does go down, then most likely you would have to have it fixed by the
contractor because I don't believe we are permitted to do anything to utility poles at all.
So essentially, if that happens, then there will be a delay while we fix it. These things
do happen. Where I live in Sydney, in Australia, I was there just two weeks ago, and
Council workers pulled up a few billiards which formed part of the Sydney Eruv and as a
consequence, the entire Eruv of 40,000 people that it includes was. completely
malfunctional for a week. So, these things do happen and they are checked.
Board Member Wilcox — Some people could assume, therefore, that an Eruv does exist,
others could say the intent is for it to exist, we know where the boundary is...
Mr. Robinson — Yeah, the...
Board Member Wilcox — I'm sorry, I don't want to go there...
Board Member Talty — No, no, you're already there ... I want to hear the answer...
Mr. Robinson — The issue of the Eruv being a sign ... I believe we sort of wrote
extensively on this in our submission... To us it seems very strange to be thought of in
FINAL PB 8.5.08
Pg. 14
this way. Mainly because the intent is not to convey information, in fact, it's designed
exclusively to look like electrical conduit for a reason because it's not supposed to
be ... we don't want, in general, Jews or anyone else to look visually and determine for
themselves where the Eruv is because people make mistakes and then they might carry
out sort of the boundary. In general, how we intend to do it is by providing people with
maps, all right, and posting them in Jewish community centers and in regards to the
boundaries, people would probably be advised to ask someone "Can I (inaudible) rather
than looking for the pole. In some cases, it's not necessary ... where the wire itself
passes over utility poles along the top, it's not necessary for us to attach plastic
molding. In that case, it's still part of the Eruv and if someone is looking for a plastic
markup to find where the Eruv is they wouldn't find it. So, especially for that reason, it
seems difficult for us to...if you like ... stomach the idea of it being signs, but if it's
necessary to do it, if it happens to be the easiest path to, you know, resolve this issue,
then by all means, we're happy to have sign variances as much as having it resolved as
they're not signs.
Board Member Wilcox – Will you have to install any wires?
Mr. Robinson —No, we're actually forbidden to do so.
Board Member Talty – Will you have to bury anything?
Mr. Robinson – No.
Board Member Riha – So what are the alternatives? Clearly there haven't been
telephone poles for very long and there are Eruvs, and clearly there are not going to be
telephone poles probably 20 years from now. So presumably there is a range of
alternatives.
Mr. Robinson – That's an interesting question. I believe that when Jews used to live in
secluded things by themselves, they would have just used wooden stakes in the ground
with strings, because they would go around towns that are exclusively Jewish. In
modern day, there are things such as telephone poles, even places like New York City
where they have Eruvs.I I
Board Member Riha – Yeah, I know, and different ones. I've read on the web that not
all of them put the plastic...
Mr. Robinson – Yeah, I mean, certainly, natural boundaries also form part of it, like cliffs
and this sort of thing, also can form part of an Eruv. But in terms of what we would do in
the future, that's a very good question that I don't have an answer to.
Board Member Riha – So at this point, other than putting up your own fence, the only
acceptable alternative to the Orthodox Jewish Community are putting these...
Mr. Robinson – In general they seem to be the most convenient option. I'm not sure if
you are aware of any other option? (he directed that to his co- agent) I mean in some
FINAL PB 8.5.08
Pg. 15
cases, yes, special fences can be constructed and that sort of thing, just form part of the
natural landscape.
Mr. Meisler spoke offmike. Barely audible in most parts, speaking to
bodies of water forming part of the boundary.
Board Member Riha — I'm just a little concerned about, you know, kind of getting on
Fred's maintenance issue, having read where if certain telephone poles fell down or
removed and didn't want replaced, I mean, you know, what the long -term commitment is
just to putting plastic things on telephone poles that are innocuous...
Mr. Robinson — I think Verizon and NYSEG indemnified themselves to say that "if we
decide to knock a utility pole down, then that's too bad. You'll have to fix it yourself."
So...
Board Member Riha — So then would you come to the Town and ask to put up special
poles or...?
Mr. Robinson — We would cross that bridge when we came to it, I mean, I doubt it.
Probably what we would do is find a new route and reconstruct it and that would.... that's
a sort of nightmare scenario that...) don't know if it's reasonable to address.
Mr. Meisler — Typically when they knock down poles it's because the pole is in bad
repair and they replace it...
Chairperson Howe — Well, there are probably a variety of reasons...
Board Member Riha — Yeah, a variety of reasons... yeah, if they are rerouting stuff or...
Board Member Talty — Or what happens if they bury the cables? Because more and
more people are doing that.
Board Member Riha — Yeah, that's what I was saying. It seems like in 20 years, there
are not going to be these poles.
Mr. Robinson — Well, I suppose if that does happen then we'll have to address the issue
at that time. I mean...
Board Member Talty — I mean, there's not a subterranean type of boundary is there?
mean, does it have to be...
Mr. Robinson — Yeah, no, it has to be a certain height...
Board Member Wilcox — Have you been to the City and the Village of Cayuga Heights
yet?
Mr. Robinson — Yeah, I think essentially everyone is waiting for this proceeding to
resolve itself. I mean, we have given materials to .the Village and also to the City but I
FINAL PB 8.5.08
Pg. 16
think they have all been a bit quiet while this goes on. So, they're ... the Town, it shows
you here where the Town Board has given a proclamation regarding the boundaries and
we are awaiting a similar thing from the City and from the Village...
Board Member Wilcox — Yeah, I read that you technically, legally, don't need that, but
it's something that you would want or prefer.
Mr. Robinson — In terms of the proclamation? Oh, we do need it from the authority. We
probably could get it from the Sheriff if we really had to, or the County but we've gone
down this route for various reasons.
Board Member Erb — I personally think I would be in favor of this whether it's 75 poles in
the Town of Ithaca or 100 poles in the Town of Ithaca, but you, it's been referred to
repeatedly in this material as approximately 75 poles and you gave us a Town of Ithaca
pole list that has 101 poles on it and I'd like you to speak to that discrepancy and to
what the blank spaces and the question marks mean.
Mr. Robinson — Sure. I think I made mention (inaudible) when we composed this list we
were taking numbers off poles and it is somewhat hard for us to determine where
exactly the boundaries fell whether a pole belonged to the City, the Town or the Village.
So essentially what I gave you on that list was a mock -up. I know for certain that there
are 75, approximately, poles, that's why I came up with the number of approximately 75,
1 estimated that I probably over - estimated by 25% so...
Board Member Erb — So, I mean, I just ... it doesn't make a difference to how I feel about
the proposal, it makes a difference to whether we're reading things carefully and looking
for internal consistency. That's why I asked.
Mr. Robinson — Recently I managed to get a list of exactly which poles are in the Town
and the City because Verizon went around themselves with that list and checked which
poles and told us which poles are which. Did you have another....
Board Member Erb — Yes, I did. None of the poles within the Town of Ithaca are
Verizon poles?
Mr. Robinson — I'd have to check that, I'm actually not sure. They may be...
Board Member Erb — Mr. Chairman, when we get to the Short Environmental
Assessment Form, I'd like to make a correction to that also.
Board Member Wilcox — There is no SEQR.
Chairperson Howe — There is no SEQR.
Board Member Wilcox — That's for the ZBA.
Board Member Erb — Oh, really.
FINAL PB 8.5.08
Pg. 17
Chairperson Howe — Let me see if there's any ... Kevin, do you want to...
Board Member Talty — No, I'm okay. I would just like to say that I would like the darker
material. I don't want the grey because there is going to be so much of it on so many
poles, I think that the telephone coloring and the materials that go into telephone poles
would make it much more conducive to have a darker color.
Mr. Robinson — That is certainly fine.
Board Member Riha — Yeah, having looked at some of these Eruvs and the issue with
the poles for other communities. I am wondering if you did anything in terms of
approaching the larger community to see what their impression were of the Eruv and its
boundaries. I know I ...
Mr. Robinson — In terms of public polling? Or...
Board Member Riha — Well, in New York City they were saying that they defined the
extent of their Eruv based on objections of other communities, that they didn't want the
Eruv in certain sections...
Mr. Robinson — Yeah, I think I've already explained... basically, the way that we did it
was what was most convenient for us. To be honest, I don't think we really considered
that it would be necessary. I mean, certainly because it's going before publicly elected
officials, that we would need to also put it before public consultation. I mean, to an
extent, this is a public hearing already, in that people could come and voice
their...because it's been in the newspaper, I believe, several times.
Board Member Riha — So you think there's
the Greater Ithaca Community that would..,
no one in, or essentially, almost no one in
Mr. Robinson — I'm sure there are people that would object, for whatever reason they
would object. I'm not sure if I would consider all of those objections to be reasonable
ones.
Board Member Riha — Right, I mean, I'm thinking from the point of view...
Mr. Robinson — But we do realize that there are people that may not like it in some way.
I'm sure that they were able to come tonight and voice that if they had chosen to.
Board Member Riha — Actually, the few people I talked to said they weren't aware ... as
usual...
Board Member Talty — Not just about your case, we're talking about everybody...
Board Member Riha — Right, that happens all the time, so, but it does seem like it's a
particularly sensitive issue so it would be, in my mind, it would behoove any community
that wants to set up a symbolic barrier, to be sensitive to the fact whether other people
are comfortable with that barrier, living within it...
FINAL PB 8.5.08
Pg. 18
Mr. Robinson — I don't mean ... (inaudible) ... we have had discussions with the other
people at Cornell with religious works and in fact, I think we have letters of support from
them, in general. I mean, I think the crux of it is that the Eruv doesn't impose any
religious impositions on anybody. It's simply a fictional boundary for the convenience of
a group of people and to that extent I think once people understand that, that it's not any
type of religious symbol in any way, then they generally don't have any objection to it.
would imagine that Eruvs are constructed in hundreds of cities in the US.
Board Member Riha — Well, yeah, I've seen that, but it does seem like it is a symbol or
else it wouldn't be important to put up there.
Mr. Robinson — Well, it's important to put up there because it's a boundary. I don't think
it's supposed to convey a religious belief or create any type of...
Board Member Riha — So you don't feel that people in your community ... it doesn't
convey any meaning to them per se?
Mr. Robinson — I don't think so...
Board Member Riha — So you could have it without these...
Mr. Robinson — Oh no, these, we need the pole to satisfy conditions of the Jewish law.
They must have some sort of physical delineation of where...
Board Member Riha — So that has meaning to those people because it's not a real
fence, so..
Mr. Robinson — Yeah, but it, it has meaning only in the sense that it delineates the
border. Not meaning in terms or I believe or...
Board Member Riha — But it's a religious border in the sense that it's something that a
religious person has outlined and...
Mr. Robinson — I suppose so. But I suppose I could point you towards the Federal
Court of Appeals case...
Board Member Riha — Yeah, I've looked at that...
Mr. Robinson — ...where the judgment seemed to indicate that the Court had been
satisfied by the idea that, you know, it's not intended to communicate any idea or
message, rather the evidence shows that the Eruv, like a fence around a house or the
walls on a synagogue, seems to be purely functional purposes delineating an Eruv
within which certain activities are permitted. So...
Board Member Riha — Right, except those are around private property where this is...
Mr. Robinson — Well the walls of a synagogue certainly are...
FINAL PB 8.5.08
Pg, 19
Board Member Riha — Right but then this is taking public property, property that belongs
to everybody and then delineating it in a special way. But...
Board Member Wilcox — Let's be careful ... this is private property. This is NYSEG's
poles. Let's be careful.
Board Member Conneman — And NYSEG is a public utility.
Board Member Wilcox — Yeah, but it's their property.
Board Member Riha — So the Town of Ithaca has no control over that property? Or
what they put on their poles, really, huh?
Board Member Wilcox — It's in our Zoning Ordinance that we don't want, you know,
notices put on poles and we don't want advertising on them but we don't own the poles.
Mr. Walker — We don't own the poles but some of the poles may be within Town rights -
of-ways but ... Forest Home Drive is a Town Road. Caldwell Hill Road is a Town Road.
Maple Avenue is a Town Road. And they may be within the right -of -way or they may be
of the right -of -way. I can't, you know, more often than not now, NYSEG is actually
trying to locate their poles just outside the Town right -of -way so it may be on private
property.
Chairperson Howe — Susan, is there a point you're trying to make?
Board Member Riha — Yeah, I am, I am because, I mean, there is, I mean, we're
presumably representing the public here and feeling about, all right, you could say if you
had a telephone pole on your property and some symbol was put on by some group,
you would be okay with that. I don't know, I mean, I don't know. You have to think do
you want a series of symbols on your poles and you could say they are on the Town
property, that's basically...) mean, the point of these symbols, as I've read it...
Chairperson Howe — But I don't look at it as a symbol.
Board Member Riha — Well, I think it's either a symbol or fence. It's a something.
guess I'm not going to get into...
(multiple people talking)
Board Member Erb — I think I understand what you're saying Susan, but at the same
time, if you're concerned about the public, the Town Board has already considered...
Board Member Riha — No, I'm..,
Board Member Erb -- ...considered this...
Board Member Riha — No, but I'm concerned about whether the public will object to
seeing signs.
FINAL PB 8.5.08
Pg. 20
Board.Member Erb — But I'm saying the Town Board I would trust to already had some
responsiveness or sensitivity to that issue...
Board Member Riha — Including the signs. I mean, if someone wanted to put up flowers
on all of the telephone poles...
Board Member Erb -- ...and I...
Board Member Riha -- ...and the Town Board said it was okay ... I guess I don't then
know what our role is. If we're supposed to be saying we have a sign ordinance, we
don't. .'we either do or do not have the right, maybe we don't have the right to tell
NYSEG if they say it's okay if people want to put X up on their poles they can put it. I
don't know, the lawyer would have to tell us something about that.
Board Member Conneman — Well my question is...
Board Member Riha— I guess I need that clarification. Does the Town...
Mr. Krogh — I can tell you that from a legal perspective, the case just cited isn't really
applicable because that was a First Amendment analysis. So what they were trying to
determine is whether or not by approving the creation of this demarcation area, there
was some form of speech which therefore constituted some sort of violation of the
separation of church and state or the establishment clause. First Amendment analysis
of speech is a different standard than Fourth Amendment property analysis of speech.
Mr. Robinson Although I believe they are also considering the free exercise clause of
the First Amendment...
Mr. Krogh — No, I'm, I'm not here to debate
saying that that's a First Amendment ruling
violate any First Amendment prohibition
municipality did not endorse a religion
Amendment analysis, the lechis did not c
Amendment speech.
Board Member Riha — Right.
how you wish to interpret that ruling. I'm just
and what they determined is that that did not
against establishment. In other words, a
by approving this because, under a First
:onstitute a form of speech in terms of First
Mr. Krogh — They were a border under the First Amendment. The analysis that would
apply under a sign type ordinance, which did not apply in that case, is more akin to a
Fourth Amendment analysis because you're dealing with property rights. I'm not saying
that the result would be different in the eyes of the Court, I'm just saying that question
hasn't been presented to the Court before.
Board Member Riha — Right. So the issue, it seemed to me, is that as the Town passed
a sign law and the sign law explicitly said that there wasn't to be signs on utility poles,
right? That's my understanding, without the Zoning Board making a waiver.
FINAL PB 8.5.08
Pg. 21
Mr. Krogh — Well, there could be a waiver, there could ... you could ... I think, with the
ordinance as written, there is no such thing as a perfect law, there is no such thing as a
perfect contract, there is room for interpretation as to whether this is or is not a sign.
The first body that passes on that is the Code Enforcement Officer or arguably someone
within that office, maybe a Building Inspector; they've determined they believe it is a
sign. It is now up to the ZBA to make a determination to as to whether they believe that
determination is correct. If they want my legal advice or input, they can have it, but the
question here, in terms of what I think your Board is looking at is, you can consider
whether or not you want to make a recommendation as a Board, because you are also
the Sign Board, Sign Review Board, you can make a recommendation as to whether or
not you as the Sign Board believe this does constitute a sign. It can't be binding, but I
think the underlining purpose of the public notice was to determine whether or not you
supported the overall project, not necessarily took a position on the individual nuances
and technicalities of the law.
Board Member Riha — Right. So in my mind, we're saying this is a sign and we think it's
appropriate that these signs get put up, we're okay with these signs being put up on
these poles.
Mr. Krogh — As a Board you can determine...
Board Member Riha —...for whatever... well that's
Mr. Krogh -- ...some people that think it's a sign and some people think it isn't...
Board Member Riha — Or it's not a sign and they can be put up.
Board Member Conneman — But it is not a religious symbol. I mean, it seems to me
that's an important part of it.
Board Member Erb — It's not a cross, it's not a six - pointed star, it's not a crescent, it's
not a Hindu god ... it's
Board Member Conneman — Exactly. And you said it was not a religious symbol, it was
a barrier.
Mr. Robinson — It's not (inaudible)...
(people talking over each other)
Board Member Riha
— I know,
but there are other groups
who would have signs that are
not religious symbols
that they
might feel are important to
send a ...
Board Member Erb — If they were to bring us something that is as industrially innocuous
as that, then we'd deal with it.
Chairperson Howe — They would have to convince us that there was a rationale.
FINAL PB 8.5.08
Pg. 22
Board Member Riha — Well I'm not convinced there's a rationale. I think you could
argue it's innocuous.
Board Member Talty — I'd like to know ... is there any Rabbis that will bless this conduit
or anything that's affixed to the conduit?
Mr. Robinson — No there's no blessing that's necessary. The only thing that's
necessary really is that ... a civil proclamation that the Eruv exists by the authority that...
essentially Jewish law requires that the proclamation be given by someone who has
authority to govern the area. So in these terms, according to Jewish law, this people is
the Town municipality, civil authority. So there's no blessing that is required to establish
the Eruv.
Board Member Talty — Okay I hear it's not "necessary' and I hear it's not "required ". My
question is; Will it be blessed?
Mr. Robinson — No, I don't believe so.
Mr. Meisler — No, absolutely not.
Board Member Talty — Okay. That answers my question.
Chairperson Howe — George, I think you were trying. ..do you have another question?
Board Member Conneman — No, that's fine. I was going to ask whether they consider
it's a religious symbol and you say it isn't.
Mr. Robinson — No, in our eyes it's delineating...) mean, it's for a religious purpose,
that's certainly true but it's not meant to convey any religious belief like belief in God or
belief in any other religious ideals. It delineates a boundary.
Board Member Erb — And in fact, it allows a secular thing to take place rather than a
specifically religious thing.
Board Member Riha — But it's a boundary that is specific to a specific religious group.
Chairperson Howe — Larry?
Board Member Thayer — My question has been addressed.
Chairperson Howe — Okay. Christine, is there anything you want to add?
Ms. Balestra — No.
Chairperson Howe — Let me open the public hearing at 7:52 p.m. and if there is anyone
here who would like to address the Board ... Is there anyone here who plans on
addressing? .... Okay, I'll close the public hearing in a couple of minutes.
FINAL PB 8.5.08
Pg. 23
Board Member Talty - I'd just like to say that, for the record, I believe that this is not a
sign, it's a fence, because fences are outlining a specific square footage ... I don't
necessarily believe what you said, Fred, for cats and dogs and horses and things of that
sort, but I do think it outlines a boundary and hence, I think in my mind, whether it's a
more traditional fence that you may consider Fred, but in my mind, this is more of a, like
spiritual fence, or whatever the case may be, or however you want to define it, but
don't believe it's necessarily a sign. I believe more of a fence. That's my own opinion,
because it's outlining an area.
Board Member Wilcox
we feel it is. It's, "How
it conveys information.
I would have no idea m
that's being conveyed.
written and it is a sign.
- The question here is not whether it's a sign or a fence, whether
is our current sign law written ?" That's the key. And in my mind,
Now, if I saw these a month ago, (holding up the plastic conduit)
Fhat they meant. But somebody knows and that's the information
So for what it's worth, I think it falls within how our sign law is
For what it's worth, I don't think it's relevant.
Mr. Robinson - You certainly, the way the sign law is written, it's certainly very
broad...ln terms of enforcement of the law though, you could also make the same
argument that therefore a household fence, for example, is also a sign and then you
would have issues of, you know, someone's house fence is larger than the largest
permissible sign, so would that, you know, then require a variance from the Zoning
Board...
Board Member Wilcox - That's funny.:.) don't see someone's fence on their own
property as conveying information...
Mr. Robinson - It conveys where their property ends.
Board Member Wilcox - No, no, because people do not necessarily put them up where
their property ends. They put them possibly near the property line but not necessarily at
the property line. In fact, we have regulations which speak to fences on property lines,
their height and things like that.
Chairperson Howe - And I think we've had the discussion we need to have to decide
whether we are moving forward. I do want to bring us back to this. So if we move
forward on the resolution, what would you want to see happen to this? I don't know,
Hollis, if this is where, in the proposed resolution, where we would say that we
recommend that the SEQR gets whatever you want added to that; that this is where we
would add; and we suggest a dark black, whatever color we want; so I don't know if
that's the kind of stuff we would add to the proposed resolution.
Board Member Erb - My issue for the Short Environmental was in Item 10 where I
believe that "commercial" should have been checked because this incorporates a
portion of Community Corners and I also believe "other" should have been checked
because it includes two cemeteries and Cornell University.
Ms. Balestra - I have a comment about the Short Environmental Assessment Form;
Staff has actually made some changes to the form to make it more accurate, it's just
FINAL PB 8.5.08
Pg. 24
you guys didn't get the copy of that. This is the original SEAR form that was submitted
by the applicant and Staff that was reviewing some of the other elements of the
application looked at the form and said "oh, well it's not just residential, it's also this and
this, and that form is still being used to process the Zoning Board application.
Board Member Erb — So Chris, my comments,
Community Corners, commercial districts, or
incorporated?
Ms. Balestra — I will add the commercial...
the cemeteries, Cornell University,
commercial areas, have been
Board Member Erb — I mean look at it. I Jt includes several shops.
Ms. Balestra — I will make sure that change is made.
Chairperson Howe — So we don't have to address-it in the resolution. We might want to
change, instead of where it says "approximately 75, Hollis, would you like to see.. You
probably don't want to put an exact number...
Board Member Erb — We don't want an exact number.
Board Member Wilcox — We don't want an exact number...
Board Member Erb — It's simply that to my mind, 101 on the list was too different from
"approximately 75 ", so if you wanted to say (everyone talking over each other)..II agree
with the statement; "the darker the color the nicer." But important to me that it be a non -
shiny, non - metallic, non - flashy sort of finish.
Board Member Talty — I'm looking at one, it says in here, on one of these documents, it
says "that grey will be used for all actual".
Board Member Erb — But he already said...
Board Member Talty — But I want to make sure, because you contradicted what you
said...
Mr. Robinson — Did I contradict...
Board Member Erb — I asked you about that, and you said you were more likely to use
the black.
Mr. Robinson — It really, it depends, ultimately on what the supplier, what the contractor
can find to use. We actually were going to go with the grey, but I can certainly contact
them and ask him if he can go with black instead...
Board Member Talty — Well, I would like to write it in that it "must" be...
Board Member Wilcox — Wait a minute, we can't "must" anything...
FINAL PB 8.5.08
Pg. 25
Board Member Talty — We can recommend, we can highly recommend,..
Board Member Wilcox.. ...we can recommend that the ZBA consider our opinion.
Board Member Thayer — It says there will be a white cap...
Board Member Talty — That's 30 -feet up...
Board Member Erb — I don't think that will be visible to the public.
Chairperson Howe — So we're recommending a dark color? Or are we saying black?
Board Member Wilcox — Dark color. We're recommending that ... (everyone talking at
once) ... You drive down the road during the day and you're not going to notice these
things anyway...
Board Member Talty — Fred I notice that stuff all the time, all the time...
Board Member Wilcox -At 60mph you won't notice this...
Board Member Talty — Fred, I drive 60,000 miles a year and I notice these things.
Black. Highly recommended.
Chairperson Howe — Highly recommend dark...
Board Member Talty — Dark ... now, dark grey...
Chairperson Howe — Do we have any other questions? No one wants to address the
Planning Board on this issue, right? So we will close the public hearing at 8:00.
Board Member Wilcox — Can I move the resolution as drafted? I'll move it as drafted.
Chairperson Howe — Okay. Fred, and is there a second? Larry. Recommended
changes? So 100, and where would we put in....
Ms. Balestra — Are you wanting to recommend conditions....
Chairperson Howe — Just, all we want to say is...
Ms. Balestra — You could say, at the end of it, subject to the following condition.
Chairperson Howe — We are just recommend the use of a dark color, and we changed
75 to 100.
Board Member Conneman — If you are going to do dark, dark grey is not dark....
Board Member Talty — Dark is not good enough for me....
FINAL PB 8.5.08
Pg, 26
Chairperson Howe — Okay, so what do you want to do? Dark grey? Do you want
black ?...
Board Member Conneman — Say black...
Board Member Talty — Closest to black as possible ... I think that that's pretty....
Board Member Wilcox — Thank god this is a recommendation and not a...
Board Member Conneman — I know it's a recommendation, but you are picky on some
things....
Chairperson Howe — I'm going to read what she wrote...
Ms. Neilsen — Officially, the change is: Subject to the following condition: The Planning
Board highly recommends the lechis are as close to black as possible.
(people talking over each other)
Chairperson Howe — All those in favor...
Board Member Talty — We were just talking maintenance, and I just want to make sure
it's clarified before we vote.
Chairperson Howe — Well, what do you want clarified?
Board Member Erb — Well, I'm leaving that to Verizon and NYSEG.
Board Member Talty — Correct?
Chairperson Howe — I think it's got to be something that's in their contract.
Mr. Robinson — (Responds off - mike.)
Board Member Talty —All right.
Chairperson Howe — Are you guys ready to vote ... all those in favor, raise your
hands.. so six for and one against. Thank you very much.
FINAL PB 8.5.08
Pg, 27
ADOPTED RESOLUTION: PB Resolution 2008 = 067
Recommendation to Town of Ithaca
Zoning Board of Appeals
Sign Variances — ERUV
Pleasant Grove Road, Caldwell Road, Pine Tree
Road, Dryden Road, Forest Home Drive, and
Maple Avenue
Sign Review Board (Planning Board)
August 5, 2008
MOTION made by Fred Wilcox, seconded by Larry Thayer,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board,
acting as the Town of Ithaca Sign Review Board, hereby recommends the Zoning Board
of Appeals approve the request for sign variances for the vertical placement of lechis
(plastic poles) on the side of approximately 100 NYSEG and Verizon utility poles, where
signs on utility poles are prohibited and off- premises signs are prohibited subject to the
following condition:
1. The Planning Board highly recommends the lechis are as close to black as
possible.
A vote on the motion was as follows:
AYES: Howe, Thayer, Conneman, Talty, Erb and Wilcox.
NAYS: Riha
The motion passed 6 to 1.
Minutes
ADOPTED RESOLUTION:
PB RESOLUTION NO. 2008 = 068
Approval of Minutes
July 15, 2008
Town of Ithaca Planning Board
August 5, 2008
MOTION made by Hollis Erb, seconded by Larry Thayer.
WHEREAS:
The Town of Ithaca Planning Board has reviewed the draft minutes from the meetings
on July 15, 2008, and
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED:
The Town of Ithaca Planning Board approves the minutes, with corrections, to be the
final minutes of the meetings on July 15, 20080
A vote on the motion was as follows:
FINAL PB 8.5.08
Pg. 28
AYES: Howe, Thayer, Conneman, Riha, Talty, Erb and Wilcox.
NAYS: None
The motion passed unanimously.
Committee Report(s)
Board Member Erb updated the Board on the Comprehensive Review Committee.
Agenda for next meeting was outlined.
Board Member Wilcox will be absent next meeting.
Nomination & Election of Vice -Chair
ADOPTED RESOLUTION: PB RESOLUTION NO. 2008 = 069
Nomination and Election
Planning Board Vice Chairperson 2008
Planning Board, August 5, 2008
MOTION made by Hollis Erb, seconded by Susan Riha.
RESOLVED, that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board does hereby nominate and elect
Fred Wilcox, III as Vice Chairperson of the Planning Board for the year 2008.
FURTHER RESOLVED, that said election shall be reported to the Town Board.
The vote on the motion resulted as follows:
AYES: Howe, Conneman, Thayer, Riha, Talty and Erb.
NAYS: None.
ABSTAIN: Wilcox
The vote on the motion was carried.
Upon motion, the meeting was adjourned at 8:08 p.m.
submitted,
Paulette Neilsen
Deputy Town Clerk
TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD
215 North Tioga Street
Ithaca, New York 14850
Tuesday, August 5, 2008
AGENDA
7:00 P.M. Persons to be heard (no more than five minutes).
7:05 P.M. SEQR Determination: Ithaca College, Remote Parking Project, F -Lot Modifications,
Danby Road,
7:05 P.M. PUBLIC HEARING: Consideration of Preliminary and Final Site Plan Approval and
Special Permit for modifications to the proposed Remote Parking project as part of Phase
I of the Ithaca College Athletics and Events Center project, located on the Ithaca
College Campus, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 41 -1 -30.2, Medium Density Residential
Zone. The proposed modifications include new plantings in the median island at the
Danby Road entrance to the College, relocation of the existing campus directory that is
located just south of the new "F" Lot, the addition of a vehicular pull -out along the
Danby Road entrance, and a new visitor booth and widened entrance at the "throat' of the
"F" Lot extension. Ithaca College, Owner /Applicant; Richard Couture and Peter
Trowbridge, Agents.
7 :20 P.M. PUBLIC HEARING: Consideration of a recommendation to the Town of Ithaca Zoning
Board of Appeals regarding sign variances for the construction of an ERUV (symbolic
fence) by the Center for Jewish Living at Cornell University. The construction of the
ERUV involves the vertical attachment of lechis (plastic poles) to the side of
approximately 75 utility poles in the Town of Ithaca. Utility poles are owned by NYSEG
and Verizon. Within the Town of Ithaca the ERUV route is approximately two miles in
length and would run along Pleasant Grove Road, Forest Home Drive, Caldwell Road,
Dryden Road, Pine Tree Road, and Maple Avenue. Center for Jewish Living at Cornell
University, Applicant; Rabbi Jason Leib and Dean Robinson, Agents.
5. Approval of Minutes: July 1, 2008 and July 15, 2008,
6. Other Business:
7. Adjournment.
Jonathan Kanter, AICP
Director of Planning
273 -1747
NOTE: IF ANY MEMBER OF THE PLANNING BOARD IS UNABLE TO ATTEND, PLEASE NOTIFY
SANDY POLCE AT 273 -1747.
(A quorum of four (4) members is necessary to conduct Planning Board business.)
TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD
NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING
Tuesday, August 5, 2008
By direction of the Chairperson of the Planning Board, NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that Public Hearings will
be held by the Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca on Tuesday, August 5, 2008, at 215 North Tioga Street,
Ithaca, N.Y., at the following times and on the following matters:
7:05 P.M. Consideration of Preliminary and Final Site Plan Approval and Special Permit for
modifications to the proposed Remote Parking project as part of Phase lA of the Ithaca
College Athletics and Events Center project, located on the Ithaca College Campus, Town of
Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 41 -1 -30.2, Medium Density Residential Zone. The proposed
modifications include new plantings in the median island at the Danby Road entrance to the
College, relocation of the existing campus directory that is located just south of the new "F"
Lot, the addition of a vehicular pull -out along the Danby Road entrance, and a new visitor
booth and widened entrance at the "throat" of the "F" Lot extension. Ithaca College,
Owner /Applicant; Richard Couture and Peter Trowbridge, Agents.
7:20 P.M. Consideration of a recommendation to the Town of Ithaca Zoning Board of Appeals
regarding sign variances for the construction of an ERUV (symbolic fence) by the Center for
Jewish Living at Cornell University. The construction of the ERUV involves the vertical
attachment of lechis (plastic poles) to the side of approximately 75 utility poles in the Town
of Ithaca. Utility poles are owned by NYSEG and Verizon. Within the Town of Ithaca the
ERUV route is approximately two miles in length and would run along Pleasant Grove
Road, Forest Home Drive, Caldwell Road, Dryden Road, Pine Tree Road, and Maple
Avenue. Center for Jewish Living at Cornell University, Applicant; Rabbi Jason Leib and
Dean Robinson, Agents,
Said Planning Board will at said time and said place hear all persons in support of such matter or objections
thereto. Persons may appear by agent or in person. Individuals with visual impairments, hearing impairments or
other special needs, will be provided with assistance as necessary, upon request. Persons desiring assistance must
make such a request not less than 48 hours prior to the time of the public hearing.
Jonathan Kanter, AICP
Director of Planning
273 -1747
Dated: Monday, July 28, 2008
Publish: Wednesday, July 30, 2008
Wednesday, JUIy,30, 200$ BATHE hHACA 10URN L�
Town of Ithaca
Planning Board
215 North Tioga Street
August 5, 2008
7:00 p.m.
PLEASE SIGN -IN
Please Print Clearly, Thank You
Name Address
7, 450eE?VAzef
1777�f44 ,IVY 148 0
l010? N A-jg&ak 1-,
M
IWT t e rat�l Div `I
SL
�� 4 i e ■
TOWN OF ITHACA
AFFIDAVIT OF POSTING AND PUBLICATION
I, Sandra Polce, being duly sworn, depose and say that I am a Senior Typist for the Town of
Ithaca, Tompkins County, New York; that the following Notice has been duly posted on the sign
board of the Town of Ithaca and that said Notice has been duly published in the local newspaper,
The Ithaca Journal.
Notice of Public Hearings to be held by the Town of Ithaca Planning Board in the Town of Ithaca
Town Hall, 215 North Tioga Street, Ithaca, New York, on Tuesday, August 5, 2008 commencing
at 7:00 P.M., as per attached.
Location of Sign Board used for Posting: Town Clerk Sign Board — 215 North Tioga Street.
Date of Posting:
Date of Publication:
July 28, 2008
July 30, 2008
isa v .- Gi gu-A
Sandra Polce, Senior Typist
Town of Ithaca
STATE OF NEW YORK) SS:
COUNTY OF TOMPKINS)
Sworn to and subscribed before me this 30`h day of July 2008,
Notary Public
CONNIE F. CLARK
Notary Public, State of New York
No.01CL6052878
Qualified
Commiiss onExp yes December26t20�
Id