HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB Minutes 2007-11-27REGULAR MEETING
TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD
TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 27, 2007
215 NORTH TIOGA STREET
ITHACA, NY 14850
7:00 p.m.
PRESENT
Chairperson: Fred Wilcox
Board Members: Eva Hoffmann, George Conneman,
Susan Riha. Alternate Board Member: Hollis Erb.
FILE
DATE 42 -
Rod Howe, Larry Thayer, and
STAFF: Jonathan Kanter, Director of Planning; Dan Walker, Town Engineer; Susan
Ritter, Assistant Director of Planning; Mike Smith, Environmental Planner; Christine
Balestra, Planner; Susan Brock, Attorney for the Town; Paulette Neilsen, Deputy Town
Clerk.
OTHERS:
Mina Amundsen and Steve Golding, Cornell University
David Herrick, TG Miller, 203 North Aurora Street
Orlando Turco, 307 Eastwood Ave
Mark Macera, 1 Bella Vista Drive
Claire Forest, 330 West King Road
Joe Allen, 417 North Cayuga Street
Nathaniel Greenspan & Susan Perry
CALL TO ORDER
Chairperson Wilcox declares the meeting duly opened at 7:03 p.m., and accepts for the
record Secretary's Affidavit of Posting and Publication of the Notice of Public Hearings
in Town Hall and the Ithaca Journal on November 19, 2007 and November 21, 2007
together with the properties under discussion, as appropriate, upon the Clerks of the
City of Ithaca and the Town of Danby, upon the Tompkins County Commissioner of
Planning, upon the Tompkins County Commissioner of Public Works, and upon the
applicants and /or agents, as appropriate, on November 19, 2007,
Chairperson Wilcox states the Fire Exit Regulations to those assembled, as required by
the New York State Department of State, Office of Fire Prevention and Control.
Chairperson Wilcox announces the first agenda item at 7:04p.m.
PERSONS TO BE HEARD
Chairperson Wilcox — If there is a member of the audience who wishes to address the
Planning Board this evening on an issue, item, topic or concern that is not on the
agenda, we ask that you please step to the microphone, give us your name and
address, and we will be very interested to hear what you have to say.
If you are here for one of the public hearings, we will give you an opportunity to speak at
that time. Claire, you may want to say something with regard to the environmental
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 2
issues with one of the subdivisions, we'll give you a chance to speak at that time.
David, go ahead, you are probably the only one here who wants to speak at this point.
David Herrick, TG Miller Engineers and Surveyors, 203 N. Aurora Street
Thank you. Somewhat unofficial here, at least in my attire ... I have hockey practice to
attend very shortly. But, I did want to officially introduce the Board to the Environmental
Impact Statement for the Ithaca College Athletics & Events Center. We have finally
completed the draft document and we look forward in coming months to reviewing the
content of that document for adequacy, and we will certainly make available all of the
folks who contributed to the entirety of the document. It is not as ominous, I think, as it
looks in volume ... The first 100 pages are the real narrative and substance. Supporting
that are Appendices which have been completed, in large part, by other consultants.
So, we are ready to officially kick -off the process, and again, look forward in the near
and coming months in reviewing this with you and sharing all of our latest plans.
Chairperson Wilcox — Thank you. Anybody else wish to address the Planning Board
this evening? On a topic that's not on the agenda? There being no one, we will move
on to the next agenda item.
Chairperson Wilcox announces the next agenda item at 7:05 p.m.
PRESENTATION AND DISCUSSION REGARDING THE CORNELL UNIVERSITY
MASTER PLAN. Mina Amundsen and Steve Golding, Presenters.
Mina Amundsen — What I thought I would do tonight... Jonathan had requested that I
present to the Planning Board and talk about the Master Plan ... And since we have a
half an hour, I felt it was more prudent to really sort of dwell on the key features of the
plan and leave time for questions...
So, many of you have seen a presentation by the consultants a few months back. We
have had several of those and I believe we also had one where we invited Planning
Boards, so to give you a sense of how we have progressed on the Plan.
So where we are right now is, we have a draft plan which is up on the website. I think
everyone should have seen the slides, which Fred reminds me is a humongous
document. That's not the document, that's the slide presentation....
Board Member Hoffmann — Can I ask you ... my head is more than usual plugged up
tonight and I have trouble hearing you I..can you bring the mic even closer ... thank you.
Ms. Amundsen — So where we are now is really ... if you look at the boards that I have, I
brought along just three boards. I think that we can really talk about the most essential
elements of the Plan with those.
I have with me a board that looks at the existing campus, and if you can ... there is sort
of a light green shading, if you can look behind the light blue and dark blue buildings.
That really looks at the expanse of the main campus. So that is the main Ithaca
campus and you can really see the (inaudible) nature. To the west, really, mostly in the
City and then partly in the Town, is the more built up area of campus, which is the core.
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 3
And to the east, to the north, to the southeast, are really the open areas, the fields the
forested areas, the areas that are largely used by the cows, the College of Ag and Life
Sciences and the Vet College, and the Plan recognizes that both the built campus and
the open areas, what we call the "country campus" are essential to the academic
mission. So I think that one of the big, key aspects of the plan is to conserve all of that
open space. And so, that is the green, the big board with the green drawing. So if you
look at, what we look out as a future campus, and you know, the 30 -50 year time frame,
we have built really, within the existing built footprint, there is very little excursion into
the open areas. So, if you will notice, the orchards have been preserved, most of the
fields to the east are still intact ... but what we are doing in the middle of the campus is
really building up. We are building both taller buildings, we are also moving some of the
_athletic functions to the Game Farm Road Complex, really beefing that up, and....So we
will have a distribution of the athletic functions off the core campus, but you will have
most of the venues, the competitions, where the community comes to watch the hockey
games and other events, they remain on the core campus. But none of the practice
facilities, the baseball field, for example, will be moving out.
And to tie all of these together, what we propose is a campus circulator. So this is a
system, it's really simplifying the transit system that is on the campus. We are very well
served by TCAT, but when we went out and interviewed people about what they liked
and what did not work for them, many people felt that they had just too many routes and
too many busses and too many directions. So they would love to take the bus except it
would be great if we could simplify it. So what we are proposing, in concert with the
TGEIS, is to simplify the system for getting around the campus but then connecting with
the TCAT system at transit hubs. So we would have one on the central campus, but
one or two at the edges. So you could, for example, if you lived out, really the far end of
Dryden, you could drive to a park- and -ride lot, way out, take a bus, a high speed ... what
do they call them ... express and then come in to campus and then hop on the circulator,
or just walk to wherever you had to go.
So, that's the thinking. So we are also reorganizing the parking. So if you notice, there
aren't any parking lots, really, any significant parking lots in the plan. What we've done
is arrange the parking in a peripheral pattern around the campus and we have put those
into structured parking. So again, the intent is to reduce the number of cars on the core,
making it a much more pedestrian - friendly environment. And what we have been doing
is working very closely with the TGEIS and the TIMS to make sure that what strategies
are being recommended by the TGEIS have a compliment in what we are looking at in
the transportation planning for the campus. So I think that piece has been very closely
coordinated and we'd like to really support each other.
Something else that's come up in the TGEIS and that we have also looked at in a larger
context, is looking at mixed -use nodes. So development areas, for example, we have
East Hill and we see that as not just a commercial center but really an area of
opportunity where in addition to the commercial you could add housing, and we already
have office uses. But, we look at that as an opportunity for affordable housing for
both ... we haven't made any decisions, this is an idea, but, you know, for example, you
could have housing apartments, or townhouses kind of housing, both on the existing
plaza and further east, for, you know, junior faculty, staff, grad students ... So I think
that's one of the ideas that's one of the key elements of the plan, is providing, creating,
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 4
walkable communities, both at the edges of our community, but also how we tie and
relate East Hill Plaza to what happens in Collegetown and Downtown, you know,
realizing that we have a very diverse population, they have different choices of where
they'd like to live and through the process of the Plan and the TGEIS, we have surveyed
several of our faculty and staff and students and so we are using the answers we are
getting back from those to sort of think of how we offer up the opportunities. And again,
I think the housing will be done in a larger context and in consultation. But we are
saying that if there are areas that are good for this in the Plan, then we are showing
those.
So, I think those are some of the key ideas and ... I don't know how much you want me
-to-dwell-on .what's.on the-campus,. per se......
Chairperson Wilcox — If I may, I think we are interested in comments having to do with,
the presentation, having to do with the extension of the campus to the east, obviously,
which is into the Town of Ithaca, and what may go there and what the potential impacts
might be.
Ms. Amundsen — Okay. We haven't ... we don't have ... this is a long -range plan so this is
not something that looks at specific programs. What the Plan shows is if you have to
add, for example, we've looked at a number of adding about a million gross square feet
a decade, which is what our historic grate of growth has been over the last century.
Now, we may grow by that much, we may not, we might grow by less than that. We
wanted to see what the carrying capacity of the campus was. So we've tested that and
what we can accommodate in the core without really destroying its qualities is between,
it's around, I would say, 3 -4 million gross square feet. And that is a result of us
redeveloping a lot of sites, also developing our parking lots, so you would build on a
parking lot and you would have a single story of parking, you know, depending on the
location, below grade, and obviously the subsoil conditions and where it was located
would matter. So, I think the pattern really look at the kinds of buildings, the amount of
gross square footage you can accommodate in the east as well assuming the
redevelopment of the east of campus.
So, we recognize that a number of buildings are State buildings and once they reach,
we would not be tearing anything down now, but I think once something reaches the
end of its useful life and can no longer be adapted to be reused, you could take it down
and then we would really maximize the use of that site. So we have both a plan for
taking down buildings but also for adaptively reusing a number of buildings. There are
buildings that could be really comprehensively renovated and refitted. You know, they
might be in good shape. And depending on the program, you don't have to tear the
whole thing down. But some buildings, I think, are in really poor shape. So, that's an
opportunity. So I think that is the way we are looking at recycling the land that is on
campus, in a sense.
Chairperson Wilcox — I hesitate to say my concern... clearly something that we will have
to deal with in the future is the expansion of the University to the east. Hemmed in on
both sides pretty much, and as educational and research buildings continue to be built,
we will have non - essential services continue to move off the campus, as they have. I
want to say Precinct 7...Precinct 7 or Precinct 9? Precinct 7 ... where book storage has
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 5
gone and other non - essential services and we've seen athletic fields, now, within the
Town of Ithaca. The women's softball field, for example, one of the earlier ones, but
now, the athletic fields, practice fields out along Game Farm Road. When I looked at
one of the computer generated images in here, you see, for example, Hoy Field has
disappeared... you know ... where is Hoy Field going to go ... so there's the pressure, to
some extent, I mean, it may not be a bad use to put athletic fields in out there,
especially if they're not lit. We have the pressure for housing. You talked about
possibly affordable housing in that area, I don't think it's any secret that Cornell has
purchased the old, the former, Courtside, and I don't think it's no secret that Cornell is
interested in purchasing the land behind Rite Aid, which is why that subdivision came to
us before. Presumably that would be for housing, maybe, we'll see, as this comes
about. But we need to be concerned about what the impacts are. I know that I have
been contacted by the Bryant Park Association, they are clearly interested in what
Cornell is going to do and what the Town of Ithaca might do and what its impact might
be on the Bryant Park neighborhood and probably Belle Sherman as well, since the two
are intertwined.
Ms. Amundsen — Yeah, a number of the concerns, I think, were about traffic going
through the neighborhoods, and I think we had a very good meeting with them last
week. We talked about how we are working with the TGEIS and you know, even if we
did nothing, if the TGEIS and its recommendations start taking affect, you could actually
start to reduce the .number of trips through these neighborhoods. So I think that is
something we are very, very conscious of. And the idea of a mixed -use node at East
Hill Plaza is really, to have a walkable community, so making the campus much more
accessible for pedestrians or by bike and encouraging people not to drive through
neighborhoods.
Chairperson Wilcox — You open for questions?
Board Member Conneman — I want to make a comment, you've heard me make this
before but I should make it for everybody. My concern is that Cornell comes up with a
Master Plan for what they are going to do and what you call East Village. I don't think
it's fair for you to pick off one project at a time and I also don't think it's correct to have
to use up all of the green space. For example, we've discussed this before, preserving
the horse pasture would be a general idea that I think would be important if you are
going to build all of these other buildings. I mean, in the process, you don't want to
build everything and intrude into neighborhoods and so forth. But the thing that Cornell
has frequently not done in the past, is to have a comprehensive plan of where they are
going to build and what comes next, rather than say, "oh, we're not going to do
anything." Then next month you come in with another plan. In the seven years I have
been on the Board, there's been a lot of that, see, so what you have to do is have some
sort of a plan, otherwise, this Board may not feel very warm and fuzzy about it.
Ms. Amundsen — Well I think the intent of having this is to say if we really had to build
these are the areas that we would build in and I think the horse pasture, if you notice, is
not built upon, we have left that as horse pasture.
Board Member Conneman — I just use it as an example, but it seems to me that part of
this plan ought to be green space.
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 6
Ms. Amundsen — Oh it is, it is a very, very important component of the Plan. Both on
the campus, and, I think as I said, one of the big ideas of the Plan is the conservation of
open space.
Board Member Conneman — As I said at the first hearing that you had, that when I was
a student here, Alumni Field was going to be preserved forever. It's gone... Laughter
...okay...
Chairperson Wilcox — Anybody else?
._B.oar_d_M.ember_Ho_we -._I think that there are some unique opportunities for the East Hill
are but I think it's going to have to be done with lots of coordination because we know
that the neighbors already there are interested in certain services, but I think there can
be a blending of meeting new needs as well as enhancing neighborhood services
already there. So I think there's some (inaudible) and I think it's good to have this sort
of blueprint in front of us to that we're not making decisions in a vacuum about individual
projects.
Board Member Hoffmann — Yes, my concern also, or my question at the moment has to
do with the East Hill Plaza development and as it changes over time. It has changed
already a lot and in the sense that some of the commercial spaces have been taken
over by Cornell for office space in the commercial building and we just had, in the last
meeting, a proposal that we approved for two businesses to go into the space that Rite
Aid vacated when they built the new building, and both of them mainly serve Cornell
University. One is a furniture business that is not retail furniture, it's one where people
can come in and look at office furniture for Cornell, that's how I interpreted it, anyway.
And the other one is a printing press office where they will have some copying service
for the general public and printing decals on T -shirts and such for the general public,
but, you know, as I see these businesses move and new ones coming in, I prefer to see
businesses that serve the local community, and that's not what I am seeing lately. And
my question I guess is, is that something that you have talked about? Is it taken into
consideration that it ... that this East Ithaca Village, or whatever it's supposed to be
called, has to retain the commercial services, not for the whole Town, but at least for the
local residents, which would be the new residents, if you built the townhouses, as well
as the existing ones.
Ms. Amundsen — yup. That is something we will be taking into consideration.
Board Member Hoffmann — You are talking about that? I'm sorry, I didn't hear what you
said.
My name is Steve Golding, Executive Vice President, Cornell
The whole issue of the development of East Hill is directly tied to three separate sets of
issues that will have to be discussed fairly broadly, both within the University, but quite
frankly, also with the community at large:
First, what are the appropriate types of services as the campus expands, that should be
moved out to East Hill because that is an appropriate and logical location for those
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 7
services. Because putting them someplace else doesn't make sense. Example of that
might be our CIT function which has...
Board Member Hoffmann — Could you tell us what that stands for.
Mr. Golding — Our IT, our computer services, operations. Which don't need to be on the
core campus but need to be in proximity to the campus, as an example. I am not saying
anything specific at the moment other than to say that there's a set of conversations that
have to go on within the campus about what services over a 30 -40 year period would be
logically moved out to that area.
Secondly; -as we -move services -out, what are the kinds.,of,_and we build housing on that
part of the campus, if that's what is ultimately deemed to be an appropriate thing to do,
What are the amenity services that need to be provided for that part of the community
that's living there. And thinking logically about what those are. It could be a nice
restaurant, it could be ...you know, people want pizza shops up there and things like
that. So, I mean, there's a whole list of things that people are saying they would like to
see in that location and clearly, if we are thinking about building a community out there,
a residential community, we would have to think about the kinds of amenities and
services that would be there.
And then thirdly, there is the linkage between East Hill and Collegetown and Downtown
that have to also be thought very carefully of because the University is very much
interested in what the City is trying to do in Collegetown, has a vested interest in making
Collegetown work. We also have a vested interest in making the downtown work. So
the fact of the matter is, is there is another component here which we are already
engaged in conversation with the City about and, quite frankly, to a certain extent, with
the County, which is, how do we think logically about the East Hill-Collegetown-
Downtown relationship such that what we do in each one of those places actually works
and there is synergies between them and that we're not creating competition between
the three. So, it's a very complex problem which I can clearly tell by your questioning
you understand, and it's one that really is going to require a series of conversations that
will have to take place over the next, over the coming months as we think about,
logically, what is appropriate for East Hill versus what are we trying to do with the City
and Collegetown verses what the City is asking the University to think about in terms of
working with them on a Downtown basis. So, there are a number of moving parts here
and that's why it is very difficult to say definitively what we would do at this time
because they're really ongoing conversations amongst a variety of different
constituencies right now.
Board Member Hoffmann — I guess I would have to tell you that the example of
businesses you brought up doesn't make me feel very encouraged, the restaurant, a
nice restaurant and a pizza place. I'm was thinking more of everyday kinds of places
like we have there already. A supermarket, the wine store, the drycleaner, a
laundromat...
Mr. Golding — We don't see those leaving. Those are ... at no time do we see those
facilities going away. We couldn't think of that as a town center /community based area
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 8
if those services weren't there. So we have no thoughts, no plans, and there's been no
discussion of removing any of those.
Board Member Hoffmann — Well that makes me feel better, because that wasn't clear,
before.
Mr. Golding — No, we continue ... I mean ... it might ... if you think about it this way, which
is probably where some of the confusion comes, because you see different forms of
buildings on the map, but if you think about it the way Cornell would look at it, over 60%
of the visitors who come to our campus, drive in on Pine Tree Road. That's what the
traffic studies have told us. Our Campus Master Plan research suggested that we could
-- actually, —you. -know; think - a bout reprogr -amming- that.a- rea- so_= that.it looks a little bit more
attractive, it has a little bit nicer feel to it, over a 30 -year period. Such that you're not
coming in to the middle of a strip mall, but you're actually coming into an area that looks
a little bit more attractive. So what you're seeing here is the ... is one view...
Board Member Hoffmann — I understand that, but I was...
Mr. Golding — Of what the campus master planners think it would be. At no time does it
eliminate any of the services that are there and in fact, we would hope to enhance them
over tine.
Board Member Hoffmann — Good. I am glad to hear that. And the other thing that
wanted to add is, if you are thinking of coordinating with Collegetown and the City of
Ithaca, our Comprehensive Plan has stated for a long time, that the Town considers the
City of Ithaca the center of this area, and we fully support them as being the commercial
center. But that doesn't mean that it's not good for both the Town and the City to have
small commercial centers in the Town. It's not necessarily big competition, for instance,
to have P &C where it is, it's not necessarily big competition to Wegman's and TOPS,
but it saves the City residents from a lot of traffic of people from the surrounding areas
having to go back and forth through the City to do their everyday shopping. That's the
kind of thing that I think is important.
Mr. Golding — We wouldn't disagree with you. I mean, I think there's obviously, will be
opportunity for those types of amenities to be at that area if we plan it appropriately.
Chairperson Wilcox —Anybody else? Comments? Last chance...
Alternate Member Erb — I am simply looking at, for example, the last page, and the
quadrent that is East Hill area, and feeling a little relieved...
Chairperson Wilcox — Because?
Alternate Member Erb — A little relieved because I see a lot of green space preserved.
Obviously the watershed areas, the Thorn Apple grove that we fought to protect. I'm
delighted to see the horse pasture removed from the arguments. I understood as soon
as the intramural fields went in on Game Farm Road that that wouldn't be the last. It's
already been said that there were promises made to the neighborhood just to the east,
at that point, about lights and amplified sound, and you're aware of those, but, I
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 9
completely understand the argument for some dense, low- income housing in nice and
close to campus.
Board Member Hoffmann — Yes, and I think that's a very good idea too.
Board Member Riha — Are you going to maintain Dilmun Hill?
Ms. Amundsen — Yes. It is.
Board Member Riha — And then, in terms of state buildings, tearing them down,
replacing versus redoing them, but right now they're going to be (inaudible)...
Mr. Golding — Some of those are on the National...the Registry, right... So we don't
have a choice.
Ms. Amundsen — And then Stocking is not on the Register but it is a historic building,
you know, it is part of a certain period in the campus history so, again, we would be
renovating that, we wouldn't be tearing that down...
Chairperson Wilcox — Thank you very much, we appreciate you coming ... hold on ... I'm
sorry...
Mr. Kanter — I guess just a timing and process question just to wrap up... What do you
see is the timeframe for completing the Master Plan and what then?
Ms. Amundsen — I'll take the first one. We plan to finish this, the Trustees are set to
approve the plan in April 2008. So that's the official date of completion. And then
probably will look at is what comes next. We are working on the implementation piece
in the current draft, so that's something that is still very much in the works.
Chairperson Wilcox — If I may, one more comment....We've complained often on the
lack of planning on the part of Cornell University...] think now we should compliment
them that they are doing something finally.
Board Member Hoffmann — Yes, I have been very pleased with what you've been doing
so far, aside from these occasional complaints I've had. I feel that...) think the last time
I talked about it here, is I felt the University has a vision which is a good one of how
things are going to develop in the future.
Chairperson Wilcox — And they put that vision on paper, which is a good thing.
Ms. Amundsen — On the web too.
Board Member Hoffmann — I have one practical question. I have written in my calendar
that there is a meeting about the Cornell Master Plan on Thursday, the 6th of December,
in the Belle Sherman gym?
PB 11 /27/2007 Pg. 10
Chairperson Wilcox — That meeting has been rescheduled to the 17th of January. That's
the Bryant Park Civic Association is sponsoring that meeting. They've asked me to be
there. I'm not sure whether it is the old part of the new...
When we started the meeting, I forgot to point out that Kevin Talty is not here this
evening and therefore Hollis Erb, our Alternate, will be filling in for Kevin this evening.
Chairperson Wilcox announces the next agenda item at 7:36 p.m.
SEQR Determination
Harrick 2 -Lot Subdivision, 340 King Road W.
Chairperson Wilcox — Is there someone here representing the Estate of Estelle Harrick?
Orlando, step up...
Orlando Turco, Agent, 307 Eastwood Ave.
I am the agent for the selling party.
Chairperson Wilcox — Coach, if you would,
what's being proposed this evening.
Mr. Turco — Would you repeat that please?
would you give us just a brief overview of
Chairperson Wilcox — Would you give us a brief over view of what's being proposed this
evening.
Mr. Turco — Yes. This parcel is an estate and the heirs to the estate need to do
something with the property: So we have proposed that the house and two acres would
be up for sale and.I am the listing agent for that property. The rest of the property is
going to be maintained by one of the heirs of the estate. And, that's just it, that simple.
Chairperson Wilcox — Jonathan, you and I spike briefly this afternoon... Susan, did you
have a question about this? Is this the one you had a question about with regard to the
agricultural zone?
Ms. Brock — Yes.
Chairperson Wilcox — Let's raise it now as it may be relevant to the environmental
review.
Ms. Brock — Well our zoning ordinance, the regulations for the agricultural zone have
certain requirements and it's not entirely clear when you read the ordinance which
requirements apply to which types of lots. Christine's memo had mentioned that the
ordinance states that "the Planning Board, as a condition to granting subdivision
approval, shall require, unless good cause is shown, permission of same developer to
encumber the larger tracts in the non - cluster lots by deed restrictions, conservation or
agricultural easements or other mechanism satisfactory to the Planning Board to ensure
that such parcels shall remain permanently as open space or agricultural land." That
statement follows some requirements that talk about the clustering of lots. Here we
PB 11 /27/2007 Pg. 11
have one lot that's being broken into two parcels. It's a 15.6 acre total parcel and if the
sub division is granted, you will end up with one 2 -acre parcel that contains the existing
house and then the second parcel will have the balance of the land which will be 13.6
acres which the owners have indicated they'd like, at some point, possibly, to put a
home on. When I looked at these requirements, I said, well, if this condition applies,
then can a dwelling unit in fact be put on that second parcel. But in speaking with
Jonathan who was around when the changes were made to this ordinance in 2004 and
who worked with the COC on the changes, he felt that the intent of the COC and the
Town Board at the time, was that this restriction on the larger parcel to remain as
agricultural land or open space only applied where in fact you had a subdivision of more
than two lots, where you in fact did have these smaller lots being broken off, so the
cluster lots, basically, with a larger parcel being retained at the end of the subdivision
process and that it didn't make sense to apply that provision in this type of situation
where you just have a two -lot subdivision. So, and because the language does make a
reference of encumbrance of the larger tracts, and then it says "the non - cluster lots ", I
do think you could. One interpretation of this could be this doesn't apply to all
subdivisions, including two -lot subdivisions, but in fact applies to where you do end up
with more than two lots ... you know, one small lot, plus a larger lot ... cluster lots makes it
sound like you would have to have at least two of the smaller lots in addition to the
larger ... And I am comfortable going forward with that interpretation. So that was the
issue that we ... Jonathan and Christine and Susan Ritter and I all had a pretty long
conversation about this afternoon.
Chairperson Wilcox — So your question was resolved.
Ms. Brock — Yes. Then we've got an issue that shows up in the resolution which we can
talk about a little later about well, then, if there isn't this restriction, do we actually have
the ability to actually restrict the location of any future home on this parcel. But we .can
hold that until we get there.
Board Member Howe — I appreciate that clarification, because when I read this, I was
thinking, why are we.requiring that on this two -lot subdivision...
Ms. Brock — Well, in
fact,
if
that restriction applied, I'm
not sure they could in fact have
another home, could
have
a
home put on the second
lot.
Board Member Riha — Does it imply that parcel B could not be subdivided again?
Ms. Brock — Well, it can't be because there is another restriction that is outside of this
area of ambiguity in a different part of the zoning ordinance that says you take the total
acreage of the lot as it existed when this zoning provision came in to effect in 2004,
which would be the 16.6 acres, divide it by 7, disregard the remainder, so 16 divided by
7 is 2 and change, disregard the change, and basically, 2, that's the number of lots that
they can create out of this. Then there is another requirement that if it's a non -farm lot
that is being subdivided off for residential purposes, then it can't be any bigger than 2
acres. So, that's why we end up with ones-acre lot and then the balance is .the larger
lot. And they can not be subdivided again, at least as long as this provision is in place..
Because that's it. All they are entitled to are two lots.
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 12
Mr. Kanter — I think we will recommend though; that the Board consider 'putting an
added condition in the resolution that deals with that further subdivision issue perhaps
by a deed restriction, backing that up.
Chairperson Wilcox — So that it's more explicit.
Ms. Brock — I mean, it's here in the zoning, but we thought, well ... why not do it anyway:
Alternate Member Erb — Zoning could change, our intention here tonight is that it just be
limited to two ... I mean that's where we are going right...
Board Member Thayer — What about the well, I see that the well is on Parcel B for
Parcel A and I am wondering how that is going to work.
Mr. Turco — I think I can answer that. There is going to be a deed permission for the
well, that the owner of the 2 -acre parcel will have control of the well at all times. They
will have the right -of -way they can do what ever they need to do to service the well at
any time that they choose. That's going to be written right into the deed.
Chairperson Wilcox — That's a condition on the draft resolution...
Board Member Riha — In the experience of the Attorney and the Town Planner, is that
un ... is that usual?
Chairperson Wilcox — We've seen it before in areas, I'm thinking west hill right now, the
one, I remember one, where we had a subdivision and no public water and you had the
rights to use water and the wells on another neighboring property. I've seen it before.
We don't ... much of the Town has public water and sewer and therefore, we don't see
this as often.
Mr. Kanter — But it might raise questions if another house were to be built on Parcel B.
Probably would need another well. The parcel is big enough that it shouldn't be an
issue.
Chairperson Wilcox — Claire, do you still want to speak? If you do, I am going to bring
you up to the microphone. Okay. Turco, Coach, could you have a seat ... Claire has
indicated that she wanted to address the Board with regard to an environmental
concern.
Claire Forest, 330 West King Road
Read from a prepared statement (Attachment 1) Some changes and additions so it is
here verbatim.
I am Claire Forest. For the last quarter century I have owned and operated -a family fruit
and vegetable .farm at 330 West King Road, next to the proposed subdivision at 340
West King Road. I am also immediate past Chair of the Town Agriculture °Committee,
which helped develop the zoning regulations governing the proposed subdivision. The
SEQR declaration on this proposed subdivision is not complete. Planning Staff treated
this as a Conservation Zone, whereas it should have been treated as the particular form
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 13
of Conservation Zone known as an Agricultural Zone. Since there are only seven farms
left in the Town, maintaining one -third of the Town's green space for free, this oversight
is. understandable, but I respectfully submit the following corrections in the SEQR
Review and the proposed resolution. Town Policy says that agriculture should be
protected and promoted because open space benefits all Town residents. It also
recommends that all subdivisions affecting farms be sent to the Town Agriculture
Committee for comment. This was not yet.
I request that the SEQR Review be amended to note the following:
1. There is an active farm next door to the proposed subdivision. This farm is
protected by the State's Right to Farm laws and by New York State AG District
law.
2. There is a farm pond near the proposed subdivision. On my place.
3. The proposed subdivision contains prime agricultural soil, Howard Gravelly
Loam.
If given this information, the Planning Board still considers approving this subdivision, I
respectfully request that the following restrictions be placed in the new 15 -acre deed as
a condition for granting approval:
1. No further subdivision be allowed on this property, except one house, unless a
current or future owner of the Harrick property wants to someday join all or part
of the subdivided parcels to the adjacent farm, which would then, I hope, not
require further Town approval,
2. 1 am requesting a conservation easement be placed on the mature hedgerow of
trees toward the north border of the new parcel. This will preserve the rural
character of the neighborhood and the farm's fence.
3. Any driveway to the potential new house to be located to the south of this
hedgerow of mature trees and this far ... let me say that again ... any driveway to
the potential new house, be located to the south of this hedgerow and as far
south as possible within the subdivided property so as not to bring noise and dust
into the neighboring farm.
Perhaps a good location for the potential new house site is where an illegally sited
trailer now sites on the Harrick property, left there to Estelle Harrick 's dismay, by the
previous owners. This is visible on the planning map as a white rectangle. This would
place the potential new house relatively near existing houses to the south while still
offering substantial privacy. There is already a right -of -way near this site obtained from
Mr. Priori a decade ago by Daniel Tourance to get electricity to his home on Sand Bank
Road. Tourance suggested yesterday that this small parcel, too small for a house site,
according to Town law, might be purchasable by the Harrick's as part of a driveway to
an eventual house site. Now is the time, before the existing Harrick house is sold for
such consideration.
My dear neighbor Estelle Harrick who moved to the West King Road, her West King
Road property, relatively recently from Westchester passed on on June 2 "d. She left her
house and land to her three children; Peter Miller, who is a developer from Texas; Lori
Miller who is a NYC business owner and apartment dweller who is also the estate
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 14
executrix and the subdivision applicant; Heather Harrick who lives in Ithaca, with her
husband, who is here tonight, and children, and shares a substantial family business
with her older sister. Heather told me she wants to keep the land next to my farm, she
wants to keep this land, so she and Kunga and their children could someday build a
house. I am on cordial terms with each of the Harrick children and I'm friends with
Heather and Kunga. You might be surprised to hear this Fred, but, I'm not flat -out
opposed to this. I like these people. But I would like some conditions placed on it. If
Heather's children want to join my children in a small pumpkin enterprise on my farm,
they are welcome.
When I bought my farm a quarter century ago from the descendent of the original
_— farmer_John_Scott,_I was_shown_ the_ hedgerow of mature trees dividing my place and
what is now the Harrick place as the boundary. My husband proceeded to build a farm
fence there which is the south boundary of one of our orchards. The Scott niece who
sold me my farm told me this hedgerow was planted decades ago jointly by brother and
sister Jabez Scott who inherited the 55 acres I now own and his sister Florence Scott
who married Van Buren and inherited 17 acres and they planted this hedgerow so there
would always be harmony between them about the border. This is a traditional farm
practice.
In August this year, Peter Miller, after checking the original survey, TG Miller, checking
with the original surveyor, TG Miller, agreed with me that this is the boundary, but last
month he produced a new survey which places the boundary several feet to the north
onto our orchard and berry field which I have been farming for a quarter century,
understanding all the time that this was mine. This contains, this hedgerow contains our
farm fence, which Peter Miller assured me could stay, and this area. is also prime
agricultural soil. My husband and I planned to help our sons launch a small pumpkin
operation on that particular field next summer to help them start farming and we were
planning to cover, to plant a cover crop in this field this fall in preparation for this and
we're also moving forward on plans for a farm retreat on our south wood field which is a
small enterprise allowed by Town zoning, but the uncertainty raised by the potential
subdivision next door slowed us down on both of these intended family -farm initiatives.
This is what the American Farm Land Trust calls the "uncertainty factor' which
undermines farming. When development threatens, farmers stop investing in cover
crops, replanting their fields, repairing fence, building new barns.
Good planning, like good fences make good neighbors. It also preserves the Town's
ability to grow food locally and preserves rural character and open space. When I
began farming here 25 years ago, East King Road was an active farm, now it is a
sprawling suburb. One short year ago,*when you were considering the Country Inn and
Suites development a mile up the road, I warned that that was the beginning of a
domino demise of farming on King Road, on West King Road, which contains the bulk
of the Town's farm land. That action nearly drove my farm under, but by the grace of
God, we are still here farming.
Do you want West King Road to look like East King Road? Please make a wise
decision tonight.
Respectfully yours, Claire Forest, Buttermilk Farms.
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 15
I need a point of clarification from Susan Brock, the Town Attorney... My understanding
is that on the total acreage of the Harrick place, two houses can be there. The existing
house, plus one new house, and I support that if it's Heather and Kunga and if it is, if the
house and driveway are sited skillfully, and if the 3 conditions that I request are
included. If you ... do ... I hope I didn't misunderstand you, that there is consideration of
yet another house over there...
Ms. Brock - No. This land can be divided into two lots. And that's what's being
proposed tonight.
-Ms:- Forest -= Good..._ -1- helped - write that - ordinance, so we're on the same page.
Ms. Brock - Right, the two -acre lot would be carved. off the larger parcel, so there
could ... the two -acre lot has the existing house on it and then the remainder would be
the larger parcel which could have up to one house on it.
Ms. Forest - That's correct. So I'm asking for those ... I'm asking you to ... that if you are
considering approving this, I am asking you to place those three conditions that I
requested on it.
Chairperson Wilcox - Can I ask you to repeat them.
Ms. Forest - Yes, and I will give you a copy of it as well...
1. No further subdivision be allowed on this property unless the current or future
owner of the Harrick property wants to someday join all or part of the subdivided
parcels to my adjacent farm. In other words, if they want to sell it to me, I think
that that subdivision, they're subdividing that would be in keeping because it
would go into the big farm and it would be in keeping with the big farm...
Ms. Brock - It wouldn't be a subdivision, it would be a consolidation of lots...
Ms. Forest - That's right.
Ms. Brock - Which would be permitted.
Ms. Forest - Okay, that's good, and, actually, I just, I checked with Debby Teeter, who
is the current Town Agriculture Chair, and she said its actually required by your laws,
anyway, this caveat that no further subdivision will be allowed on this property.
Ms. Brock - That's correct.
Ms. Forest - Okay.
2. 1 am requesting that a conservation easement be placed on the mature
hedgerow of trees toward the north border of the new parcel. In other words,
which is the border between my place and ... which I always understood, for 25
years, to be the border, now, Peter Miller, one of the Harrick children, told me last
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 16
month that it's not, that he's got a new survey, so that's a consideration too. But I
talked with Heather about the easement, Heather Harrick, whose husband Kunga
is here tonight, and I want to say again, I like them. We're friends. We've
become friends. Estelle Harrick set a very nice tone and that tone has continued
throughout this friendship.
Chairperson Wilcox — Claire, before you go on, what do you mean by a "conservation
easement "?
Ms. Forest — I mean that ... ummm ... for example, it could be, a conservation easement
means that they could never cut down that hedgerow.
Mr. Kanter — That would be a deed restriction.
Ms. Forest — Yeah, you would just put it as a deed restriction.
Chairperson Wilcox — What can the Planning Board do there...
Ms. Forest — You can require it...
Chairperson Wilcox — Hold on ... I'm sure you have an opinion, but I am looking over
here right now.
Ms. Brock — Unless, through the environmental review, you were to find that these trees
were exceptionally significant and, you know, need protection, I don't believe there is
anything in the agricultural zoning or the subdivision regulations that would give the
Planning Board the authority...
Chairperson Wilcox — Carte blanche authority ... to just impose...
Ms. Brock — Right, to impose that type of deed restriction.
Board Member Riha — It's not clear from the survey map, that we have, that that's ... the
hedgerow is in their property. They show some hedgerows but...
Chairperson Wilcox — For those of you who may not know, Claire's land is labeled as
Dean on the survey that we are looking at.
Alternate Member Erb — The hedgerow that she is referring to is almost hidden by the
course of the white line right here. That is the hedgerow she means and it does not
show on this as squiggly lines.
Board Member Riha — So it's not clear...
Mr. Kanter — So it looks like portions of the hedgerow, some portions are on Claire's
property and some portions are on Parcel B of this subdivision.
PB 11/27/2007. Pg. 17
Ms. Ritter — I would just add that the tax - parcel lines that you see on this map, do not
line up. So this isn't a good, it's not good to use the tax - parcel boundaries with the
aerial maps.
Board Member Riha — So it's not clear.
Mr. Kanter — But I'm referring to the survey map that shows ... it does not show the
hedgerow, but it shows, basically, some of the trees that appear to be in the hedgerow
where the property line basically goes right through the middle of those trees. There's
one near King Road and one up to the west, so by filling in the gaps with the actual
hedgerow, you can surmise that the boundary goes basically right through the
hedgerow in different_parts.
Ms. Forest — That's what I was told when I bought the place 25 years ago.
Mr. Kanter — It might not be exactly through the center of it, but it certainly goes through
the trees.
Ms. Forest — Right. Peter Miller told me that, he confirmed that with me, this summer,
we walked it together. Then he had another, a new survey done, and he called me
back and said "nope, it doesn't go through the middle of that hedgerow, it's over into
your, the boundary is over into your field." 1 talked with Heather Harrick about a
conservation easement on that. She says that she wants to see those trees remain,
that she doesn't think it will be any problem as long as she has it, and I agree. I also,
having grown up on a farm, I also know that things can change. Land can get sold, and
so I would like it to be put in as a condition.
Chairperson Wilcox — Okay. Understand.
make a finding, that that's important, in of
the agent representing the land agrees to
blanche just to say "that's what we want,
I'm sure we will get tot discussing that.
We got two choices here. Either we have to
-der to put it in; or, if the owner of the land, or
it, then we can put it in. We do not have carte
therefore put it in." Just so you understand.
Ms. Forest — So, it's my understanding that anything that has to .do with agricultural
issues is supposed to have gone to the Ag Committee before it comes to you...
Chairperson Wilcox — You raised that before, and you specifically said "farm land "...
Ms. Forest — Agricultural land...
Chairperson Wilcox — No you said "farm land "...
Ms. Forest — I did.
Chairperson Wilcox -- ...what I want to make sure is the issue whether this needed to
go to another Board for review because it's in an agricultural district, because it's zoned
agricultural, or, even though it's not actively farmed...
Ms. Forest — It is actively farmed. I have an active farm.
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 18
Chairperson Wilcox — ...we're talking about this parcel, not yours. Thank you.
Mr. Kanter — And Chris, you can correct me if I am wrong, but, I understand that Parcel
B, Parcels A & B, are not actually located in a County agricultural district, although they
are in the Town's agricultural zone.
Ms. Balestra — That's correct.
Chairperson Wilcox — They are not in the County's agricultural district, of the two that
are in Tompkins County. Okay. Hence, no requirement that...
Mr. Kanter — No, the Agriculture Committee is an advisory committee that was set up by
the Town Board, many years ago, and what the formal requirements for submitting
things to the Agricultural Committee are at this point, I'm not really quite sure, because
my understanding is the Agriculture Committee hasn't been meeting, over the past year,
really, so that's something I think the Town Board would have to take up.
Ms. Forest — Jonathan, just for your information, the Ag Committee meets "as needed"
when the Town Board, when the Town Planning Board sends them something that is
related. The reason I brought this up, Fred, is because I thought I heard you to say that
there would have to be a consideration as to whether that.-:..what did you say about that
hedgerow? I..
Chairperson Wilcox — You're talking about the hedgerow... what I said was that in order
for this Board to impose upon this owner, the applicant, some sort of an easement, to
protect that, we would have to make a finding that that was important, that it was
required, that there was good reason to do it. Okay. And by good I also mean sufficient
reason to do it.
Board Member Conneman — What is sufficient reason?
Chairperson Wilcox — That's for us to determine.
Board Member Howe — But didn't you also say that if there's...
Chairperson Wilcox — Alternatively, if the owner agrees to it,' yes, right, then, if they
agree to that condition being imposed, and we think it's a great idea, then we would
certainly do it, I think. But we don't have the discretion to simply say "we think it's a
good idea so therefore do it."
Board Member Hoffmann — But the owners could volunteer to do it.
Board Member Conneman — Is that how we solve it?
Ms. Brock — It's happened before, actually, that somebody has raised something and
the different owners in the audience say "yes, we're fine with that, we'll work that out
with you." and the applicant has been satisfied with that verbal promise made at the
meeting: Those issues haven't come back to us; so I assume that they worked it out.
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 19
So certainly the owner's could all agree via, you know, a deed restriction when the
subdivision occurs, to put in provisions about tree preservation. They can do that
without us ordering it, obviously.
Ms. Forest — I hear two things here. One is that if there's good cause, you can require it
as a condition of approval, and perhaps sending this to the Agriculture Committee for
their consideration on whether there is good cause, would be appropriate, if necessary.
Two, in terms of the owners agreeing, if indeed I own that hedgerow as I, if I own my
half of that hedgerow as I was sold it, 25 years ago, and thought I did until Peter Miller
told me otherwise, I'm certainly happy for my half of it to be under a conservation
easement.
You asked for the third. The third is:
3. That any driveway to the potential new house, be located to the south of this
hedgerow of mature trees. In other words, not over toward my land, and as far
south as possible within the subdivided property so as not to bring noise and dust
onto my farm.
Chairperson Wilcox — Which makes sense by the way, it takes it away from the curb in
the road and brings it closer, it would improve the sightlines. Yeah, for entering and
exiting that driveway, absolutely.
Board Member Riha —Well, it can't be in the middle of it, it would go over the well...
Chairperson Wilcox — That's correct, we also have the well there too.
Board Member Riha — so that brings it to the south anyway.
Chairperson Wilcox — Yup.
Ms. Forest — Well, not necessarily... oh yes, excuse me, you're correct.
Ms. Brock — I think those are the types of things I think we can look at ... I'd be more
comfortable recommending...
Chairperson Wilcox — And the County would have the final say, yes, it is a county road,
they would have the final say on the curb cut...
Mr. Walker — It's a Town road.
Chairperson Wilcox — King Road West is a Town road?
Ms. Forest — It's a Town road...
Mr. Walker —... from Danby Road over to the west.
Ms. Forest — No, Fred Noteboom is in charge of that road.
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 20
Chairperson Wilcox —Okay, okay, interesting....
Mr. Walker — It doesn't connect to any place.
Chairperson Wilcox — Yeah, I was just thinking given the volume of traffic that it carries
from one area to another area that it would be a county... that's fine ... okay. So we
would grant the curb cut, which is even better. We could, one) recommend that the
curb.cut be placed on the southern ... to the far south as practical while at the same time,
we would also...
Mr. Walker — I think that would be, given that curve, some of the problems on that curve,
it's probably the more logical place to put it anyhow.
Chairperson Wilcox — Okay. So the only remaining question is, should this ... I apologize
to all of you sitting out there, sometimes we take a while on these, don't we ... the
question, should this go to the Ag Committee for review? That's the,. I guess the only
question before us, procedurally.
Ms. Brock — I just looked through the zoning ordinance, the agricultural zone
requirements, and there's nothing in that requiring referral to the Agricultural Committee.
Jonathan mentioned to me that it's possible that there was a Town Board resolution at
some point, that said certain types of projects should go to the Agricultural Committee
for a recommendation.
Ms. Forest — Yes, there was. But I don't think it needs to if you can resolve the
hedgerow issue right here.
Chairperson Wilcox — Okay, let's try to do that right now.
on ... given the survey map that is in front of us, which we will
will assume that the hedgerow is on both properties, at
apologize, but it is labeled as Dean on this so I will refer to it
north, which is your property, and what is labeled Parcel B, wF
of the estate. If the hedgerow is on both properties....
I think the hedgerow is
assume is accurate. We
this point, and Claire, I
as Dean property, to the
rich is part of the property
Ms. Forest =. Peter Miller says it's now not, but for 25 years it was...
Chairperson Wilcox — This is what I have, this is what I have, and I have a survey,
produced by TG Miller dated October 11, 2007, excused me, revised on 11/19/2007.
Ms. Forest — The revision is where they put it over into my orchard.
Chairperson Wilcox — So, given this survey, the hedgerow is in both properties. It would
make it difficult for this Board to protect the hedgerow. We can protect... assuming that
the hedgerow is on both properties, we can protect half of it ... the second half...
Ms. Forest — And I will meet you halfway on that one.
PB 11 /27/2007 Pg. 21
Chairperson Wilcox — Does this sound like you and the neighbor should get together
and draw up a deed restriction to protect it? Since you want to do it and you've
indicated, although you are not the agent for this parcel, you've indicated that they
would be amenable to it...
(Ms. Forrest turns around and talks to a member of the audience)
Ms. Forest — He says that the hedgerow is on their property but that he will never cut it.
Chairperson Wilcox — Stop ... he said she said ... I have to go by what's in front of
me ... which doesn't clearly indicate that it's on both properties but seems to indicate that
it's on both. Given the location of some trees that are shown and the fact that the
property line to the north bisects those two large trees that are shown. Okay. Alright,
Ms. Forest — Can you address the issue of the road siting and the house siting.
Chairperson Wilcox — Yes, I think the Board would probably... yes, everyone is nodding,
of putting the driveway as far to the south as reasonable, because it gets it away from
the curve and improves the sightlines.
Ms. Forest — Danny Tourance, who is the owner of the property to the west, had a good
idea. He said that when he bought, when he got the right -of -way from King Road down
to his house on Sand Bank Road, he bought that right -of -way from somebody named
Priore, and that that person owns a small, unbuildable lot adjacent to Estelle's just to the
south of Estelle's house...And Danny Tourance suggests that the Harrick family may
wish to purchase, to offer to purchase that little lot, for a potential road, and I'm
suggesting that now's the time to do it, before the house gets, before Estelle's house
gets sold.
Chairperson Wilcox — Now's the time to do what?
Ms. Forest — To...
Chairperson Wilcox — Make them purchase the property?
Ms. Forest — No, I'm not making them. I'm saying that that's a great place for a road.
Chairperson Wilcox — It very well might be, but that's owned by Mr. (inaudible) This is
owned by Mr. Torrance and Mr. Priori.
Ms. Forest — Well, Mr. Torrance said that if the Harrick family were to purchase that little
place, which he says is too small for the Town to approve a house lot
Chairperson Wilcox — Agreed.
Ms. Forest — Then that's a great place for a road.
Chairperson Wilcox — Possibly.
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 22
Ms. Forest — But that once the house gets sold, there's not room to do that.
Chairperson Wilcox — Not room to do what? Put in a driveway?
Ms. Forest — Can I come up there and show you?
Chairperson Wilcox — Absolutely.
Ms. Forest shows Chairperson Wilcox a part of the survey and explains it to him.
Chairperson Wilcox — All right. Driveway we know about. Referral to the Agricultural
- Committee -we know about..There -is- nothing in the zoning ordinance-that says we have
to.
Ms. Brock — Right. We could check the Town Board resolution establishing the
Agricultural Committee, it's from 1992 and Paulette would need to go into the basement
to grab it. It's not on the computer.
Ms. Forest — I have it. Debbie Teeter has it. You folks have it.
Mr. Kanter — Yeah, you don't need to see it. I can tell you that the Town Board
resolution indicated referring certain items to the Agriculture Committee for informal
advisory review. I don't think there is anything like a mandate or ... it's not like a Board
like the Conservation Board. Basically it's an informal committee made up of the
agricultural community. Most recently, it had a Town Board member as a liaison to is,
and as I said before, it probably hasn't met in probably over a year, so....lt was basically
meant to be an informal, you know, advisory relationship with the farming community
for, between them and the Town Board.
Board Member Hoffmann — Wasn't that originally a committee of the Conservation
Board?
Mr. Kanter — That's how it started long, long ago.
Ms. Forest — I'm not suggesting it's necessary, unless there's an issue with the
hedgerow question.
Board Member Conneman — Is it possible to state in the resolution, whichever one you
want, that says the hedgerow, according to the survey map, the hedgerow appears to
be on both properties, and then indicate what this gentleman said out here. That he's
not going to cut the trees down. I mean, I hate to have a handshake, because that
doesn't work. If it's in writing someplace...
Ms. Brock — I just don't think we have the authority to regulate that hedgerow, for
several reasons. One is, it doesn't show, particularly, on the survey map at all. It
shows two trees, it doesn't show a hedgerow, so we really don't know what its location
is and who's property it's on and two, unless there's a compelling reason, it's similar to a
health and safety issue, which we're dealing with the driveway and the well and the
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 23
curve of the road, unless there's some compelling reason, I don't think you have the
authority to say that certain trees can or can not be cut down.
Board Member Riha — So even, Susan, if it were referred to the Agricultural Committee
and they recommended we preserve the hedgerow, we don't really have the authority to
do that?
Ms. Brock — Correct.
Chairperson Wilcox — By the way, we are still doing the environmental review, ladies
and gentlemen.
Board Member Howe — Are we ready to move forward?
Chairperson Wilcox — Yeah, I want to make sure we are all set with Claire. She took the
time, she put together a presentation, I want to make sure we have dealt with her
questions, not necessarily to her satisfaction, but we've dealt with them in a way that's
reasonable.
Board Member Conneman — Do you plan to negotiate with the family on this hedgerow
thing?
Ms. Forest — I'd like them to...
Board Member Conneman — Or work with them...
Ms. Forest — I would like them, I would like, before you approve this, for that ... (she turns
around and talks to the gentleman in the audience)...
Chairperson Wilcox — Claire, Claire... you've got to address the Board...
Ms. Forest — I hope...I ... Like I say ... I'm friends with these folks. I like them. I happy
that if anybody in the world might move next door to me, I'm happy it's Heather and
Kunga, and you might be surprised to hear me say that. Ummm ... But, I want that
hedgerow issue in the, I would like it in the Planning Board's requirement so that it gets
settled.
Chairperson Wilcox — We hear you. I'm not sure we're going to do anything about it, but
we hear you.
Board Member Howe — I'll move the SEQR.
Chairperson Wilcox — So moved by Rod Howe, seconded by Susan Riha. Any changes
to the SEQR form, Part I?
Board. Member Riha — The one thing it seemed like we were discussing, I assume it's
part of the SEQR, is that there would be...
Ms. Neilsen — Susan, can you speak into the mic please.
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 24
Board Member Riha — Oh, sorry ... the one thing I thought that we were discussing but
I'm not sure that would be part of the SEQR or not, was that there would be no further
subdivision of Parcel B.
Chairperson Wilcox — I just want to make sure, based upon the issues that Claire
raised, that the actual short environmental assessment form is correct and doesn't need
modification is all.
Ms. Balestra — It is correct. And actually, in Part II in C5, the last line is "no further
subdivision or growth is allowed under the agricultural zone regulations.
Chairperson Wilcox — Stated as part of the environmental.
Ms. Balestra —We stated it in the environmental review.
Chairperson Wilcox — Okay. Motion and a second.
Ms. Brock — Ummm ... C3, is the Board comfortable with the statements that are in there
about the location of any future home?
Ms. Balestra — Oh, that's right.
Chairperson Wilcox — The point for that is there is a disturbed area on the parcel, which
would be the best place to put a home should a home be placed on that subdivided
parcel.
Ms. Brock — On the other hand, that might be the best agricultural land since that is
what was previously used as agricultural land. So if we are looking at the intent of the
agricultural zone ... I don't know. I'm just raising this as an issue for this Board.
Chairperson Wilcox — Come on up Claire. I want to hear what you have to say.
Ms. Forest — the Howard Gravelly Loam, which is the prime agricultural soil, is up here.
Chairperson Wilcox — On the front?
Ms. Forest — Back here, is not.
Chairperson Wilcox — I'm going to ask you to speak in a full voice, because you are not
in front of a microphone. If you were to locate a house on that property, where would
you put it?
Ms. Forest — My suggestion is being where that trailer is.
Chairperson Wilcox — Point ... we can't see where you just pointed.
Ms. Forest —There $ s a little trailer...
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 25
Chairperson Wilcox -You've got to talk to us ... we can't see it.
Ms. Forest — The previous owner (inaudible) trailer down there.
Chairperson Wilcox — Here's the reason I ask. If this area is disturbed, that might be the
best area to put a house, but if this area is the best agricultural land, then maybe the
best place to put the house is back here. That's why I want to hear ... so you're opinion
is, even thought this may be the better agricultural land, farmland...
Mr. Schlosser Forest — the good agricultural land, it's a strip of Howard Gravelly Loam,
at least mine is, it only goes, see where the pond is, that's not Howard Gravelly Loam,
you can't put a pond in Howard Gravelly Loam. Up here is the Howard Gravelly Loam.
Chairperson Wilcox — Okay. So I will just point out that Claire said near the front of the
property is the best. So having the house be in the disturbed portion would be the best
place to put it. Not in the very front, and certainly not back here where the woods are.
Ms. Forest — Agriculturally, but you would have to ask them where they want it.
Board Member Riha — I guess I'm not that comfortable,. I mean, I'm not that comfortable
making...if there's only going to be one house, I think it's really up to them where the
house goes on the lot. I mean, there's, if you put it further back there's going to be
more roads ... I don't know. There's going to be trade off.
Board Member Howe — Agriculture can happen in wood areas too. There's different...
Board Member Riha —Yeah. I just think we should...
Chairperson Wilcox — So do we want to strike part of C3? Is that where we're going
here? In terms of...
Board Member Howe — How much does this define...
Chairperson Wilcox --We're still doing SEQR. We're on the SEQR form. Were on Part
II C3. I don't want to make a determination in the environmental review that you should
put the house in a certain location, and then not...
Board Member Riha — I guess I like the idea of, it said "would likely occur in one of the
existing disturbed lawn areas on the site", 1 guess I would put "a future development
should " ... like the idea of protect the stream from impacts due to site development, but...
Board Member Howe — Yeah, I agree. I don't think we should have that first part of that
sentence.
Chairperson Wilcox — So you would say "future home developed on Parcel B would
likely occur on one of the existing disturbed lawns on the site." and then stop there?
Board Member Riha — Or maybe just leave that out.
PB 11 /27/2007 Pg. 26
Ms. Brock — You could strike everything after the first sentence and just state "only one
home can be built on " ... because no further subdivision of this lot is permitted, only one
home can be built,-therefore protecting the woods and stream on the lot."
Board Member Hoffmann — It seems to me though that the land is so large, even if we
say that it should be located in the existing open areas, that allows lots of different
locations.
Board Member Riha — Yeah, but then some people would object that that's the best
agricultural land.
Board Member Hoffmann — Except we were just told that that isn't, and if one talks
about this area here where that one trailer is located, that's the one which doesn't...
Board Member Riha — I feel like we don't have enough information to make those kind
of micromanagement kind of details.
Alternate Member Erb — I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of micromanaging where
the house goes. Given that we already know that it's a flag lot at this point and we're
dictating, it's essentially going, Parcel B will become a flag lot.
Chairperson Wilcox — Legal lot.
Alternate Member Erb — Pardon. Oh yeah, legal, but I mean, a flag- shaped lot, let me
say it that way. It's a flag- shaped lot and given the well and the curve of the road, we're
already, we're pretty much dictating the location of the driveway and disturbance from
additional driveway being forced by us because we dictate a particular location to the
house, is not a happy thing to me.
Chairperson Wilcox — I'm fine. I just want some verbiage for C3 ... (Claire speaking from
the audience)..hold on.
Ms. Brock — I propose striking everything after the first sentence so that the first
sentence would remain and state "because no further subdivision of the lots is
permitted, only one house can be constructed on the 13.6 acre lot , which will protect, to
a large extent, the woods and stream.
Chairperson Wilcox — Comfortable.
Alternate Member Erb — I'd have said "may" instead of "can ". Because it's a permission
thing.
Ms. Brock — Only one house may ... yes, that's a better word. "One house may be
constructed.
Chairperson Wilcox — I have a motion and a seconded. Any other changes to the
environmental?
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 27
Ms. Brock — Hold on a minute ... I'm sorry, I'm looking at C4 now ... because it is
referencing 3563, that's the section that we said didn't apply, right, that deals with
clusters, I believe.
Chairperson Wilcox — Ladies and Gentlemen, another "simple" two -lot
subdivision... Laughter ... I assume you are all sitting there just contemplating that you
want this chair next year, right. Laughter. (Claire speaks from the audience). Claire,
please...please...
Ms. Brock — Okay. Proposed:..
- - Chairperson_._. Wilcox- - -- - Hold - -- on, -hold -on ... Claire's - - interrupting... we' re doing
environmental review, when we get to that actual subdivision, then we'll put that in, we
haven't forgotten you. Yes.
Ms. Brock — Change C4 to read "As noted above, the proposed subdivision appears"
...not appears to but "meets the requirements of Chapter 270, Article 6, Agricultural
Zones, of the Town Code." And then retain the last sentence, "The applicant proposes
to split...
Chairperson Wilcox — "the 15.6 + /- acre parcel into one small parcel and one larger
parcel, the latter of the two containing contiguous woods and a large stream."
Ms. Brock — Right, the word, the first time you said parcel, it reads "lot ". I would just
retain this last sentence as is.
Chairperson Wilcox — Alright. Any other changes?
Ms. Brock —No, Oh ... again, L.
Chairperson Wilcox — You want to change the reference?
Ms. Brock — Yes. C2, none anticipated: the proposed subdivision meets the
requirements of Chapter 270, Article 6, Agricultural Zones of the Town Code.
Chairperson Wilcox — Okay
Mr. Kanter — Can we perhaps take Susan's version of it and have Fred sign that?
Ms. Brock — Can we just make another photo copy?
Chairperson Wilcox — Sure, but you're right, I do need to sign a copy that has all the
changes, I have to sign the amended version, yes.
While you are working that out, I have a motion and a second, any further discussion?
All those in favor please signal by saying aye, anybody opposed? Any abstentions?
Good. We're through the environmental review.
PB 11 /27/2007 Pg. 28
ADOPTED RESOLUTION: PB RESOLUTION NO. 2007 - 120
SEQR
Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval
Harrick 2 -Lot Subdivision
340 West King Road
Tax Parcel No. 35 -24
Town of Ithaca Planning Board
November 27, 2007
Motion made by Rod Howe, seconded by Susan Riha.
_WHEREAS -
This is consideration of Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval for the proposed 2-
lot subdivision located at 340 West King Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 35 -2 -4,
Agricultural Zone. The proposal involves subdividing a +/ -15.60 acre property into two
lots resulting in a +/ -2.0 acre parcel that contains an existing home and +/ -13.6 acre
vacant parcel. Estate of Estelle Harrick, Owner; Laurie R. Miller, Applicant, and
This is an Unlisted Action for which the Town of Ithaca Planning Board is acting as Lead
Agency in this uncoordinated environmental review with respect to Subdivision
Approval, and
The Planning Board on November 27, 2007, has reviewed and accepted as adequate a
Short Environmental Assessment Form Part I, submitted by the applicant, and Part II
prepared by the Town Planning staff, a survey map entitled "Survey Map, No. 340 West
King Road, Town of Ithaca, Tompkins County, New York," prepared by Lee Dresser,
T.G. Miller P.C., dated October 11, 2007, and revised November 19, 2007, and other
application materials and
The Town planning staff has recommended a negative determination of environmental
significance with respect to the proposed Subdivision Approval.
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED.
That the Town of Ithaca Planning Board hereby makes a negative determination of
environmental significance for the reasons set forth in the Environmental Assessment
Form Part II referenced above, in accordance with the New York State Environmental
Quality Review Act for the above referenced action as proposed, and, therefore, an
Environmental Impact Statement will not be required.
A vote on the motion was as follows:
AYES: Wilcox, Hoffmann, Conneman, Thayer, Howe, Riha, Erb.
NAYS: None
Absent: Talty
The motion passed unanimously.
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 29
Chairperson Wilcox — Hold on Ladies and Gentlemen, Coach, we're not done yet,
you've been here before ... at 8:30p.m., the next item is a public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING
Consideration of Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval for the proposed 2-
lot subdivision located at 340 King Road West, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 35=
24, Agricultural Zone The proposal involves subdividing the +/- 15.70 acre
property into two lots, a +/- 2.0 acre parcel (Parcel A) which contains the existing
hnucP anti a +l. 13.7 acre vacant parcel (Parcel B). Estate of Estelle Harrick,
Owner; Laurie R. Miller, Applicant.
Chairperson Wilcox — Discussion with regard to subdivision. I didn't expect much.
Ladies and Gentlemen, Claire, that includes you, this is a public hearing, if you wish to
address the Planning Board this evening on this particular agenda item, you may do so
at this time. We ask that you give us your name and address. If you wish to speak
again, you may do so. You got to do it up here though. We can't record you when
you're back there.
Ms. Forest — This is a point of clarification. Is the Board including in their ... are they
including the requirement... if the ... are they including in their approval of this, that the
road be to the south of the hedgerow?
Chairperson Wilcox — That is our plan, yes.
Ms. Forest — Thank you.
Chairperson Wilcox — You're welcome. Anybody else? There being no one, I will close
the public hearing at 8:32p.m. Would someone like to move the motion as drafted? So
moved by Hollis Erb, seconded by Susan Riha. Okay. Susan Brock is not caught up
yet.
Ms. Brock — Well, do you want to hear the changes on this or do you want to hear the
changes on SEQR?
Chairperson Wilcox — Well, we're already up to consideration of the actual subdivision.
Ms. Brock — Right, I have some changes on the resolution. Do you want to hear them
now?
Chairperson Wilcox — Yes I do.
Ms. Brock — First resolved A, "prior to signing the plat by the Planning Board Chair,
submission of an easement to allow Parcel A to access" add the words "access, use
and maintain" the existing well located on Parcel B, for review and approval by the
Attorney for the Town. So add the words, after access, put a comma and then add "use
and maintain."
B ... from the discussion that has been going on, it sounds like B would be deleted, the
deed restriction about the location of any future home...
PB 11 /27/2007 Pg. 30
Chairperson Wilcox — Correct.
Ms. Brock — C then becomes B, then we have a new C, "no further subdivision of either
lot shall be allowed. A new D, I didn't quite finish it, Dan, you might be, or Jon, or
somebody on the Board might be able to finish the language ... I have "Any driveway
constructed on the 13.6 -acre parcel shall be located as far south as possible to avoid
the well and to locate the curb cut onto West King Road" and I wanted to have some
statement about the curb at that point, that we want to get it onto the part of the curb
where it's starting to straighten out. And so there may be an elegant way or a very
succinct way to state that and because I started working on the SEQR form, I didn't
__ have time to finish that. So I am hoping our Town Engineer can come up with that
language.
Mr. Walker — As close to the point of curvature as possible.
Board Member Riha — No, the furthest...
Chairperson Wilcox — Wait a minute, wait a minute. Can we just, can we simply say
that we want to locate it to the south as possible so as to...
Mr. Walker — Minimize problems with sight distance on the curve.
Ms. Brock — Okay, so as far south as possible to avoid the well ... did you want to have a
reference to that?
Chairperson Wilcox — To avoid the well, yes...
Ms. Brock —And "to minimize sight distance...
Mr. Walker — Problems with sight distance.
Ms. Brock — Oh, "minimize problems with sight distance on the West Kind Road.. on the
curve on.... "on the curve of West King Road. Okay. So let me try this. So D would
read "Any driveway constructed on the 13.6 acre parcel shall be located as far south as
possible to avoid the well and to locate the curb cut in a manner that minimizes
problems with sight distance on the curve on West King Road."
Chairperson Wilcox — Are you happy with that Susan?
Ms. Brock — I'm very happy with that.
Board Member Riha — Susan, one other question about A, you said "to allow Parcel A to
access, use and maintain the existing well." Is that going to be sole access?
Ms. Brock — Well, the survey itself has a note that says "Parcel A is to reserve exclusive
water rights to a well shown." And by the well, it says "see note 1" 1 mean, that's what
the note says, but I'm not sure that that's our concern whether they are actually going to
share the water rights or whether one party has exclusive water rights. I think our
PB 11 /27/2007 Pg. 31
concern is just that to the extent that Parcel A is using that well, that our concern is that
they actually can get access to it, they have the right to use the water, and that they
have the right to maintain the well, should something happen to it.
Board Member Riha — Well, right, but then you also have, there has to always be
sufficient water. Can...
Chairperson Wilcox — We can't guarantee sufficient water.
Mr. Walker — Basically, I think the intent there is that the house, the existing house is
supplied from that well, it's probably been adequate, they want to make sure they have
_ __a_good water supply. _Lt _do_e.s._not look_I.ike._ they_would have, with the location of the
septic tank and the leech fields, they may not have another good place to put a well and
have adequate separation from the sanitary waste areas. So, basically, that would have
to be put into the deed for both of those parcels, and it's really a simple issue between
the two land owners.
Board Member Riha — So the other, if people built on B, they would potentially would
still have right to access...
Mr. Walker — Right, if it's such a good well that it would support two houses, then if A
wants to share it with B, then it's up to them.
Board Member Riha — Okay.
Ms. Brock — Actually, does this show the well for Parcels ... I'm sorry ... never mind ... I
was thinking about something else ... So those are my changes.
Chairperson Wilcox — Ladies, are those changes acceptable? Very good. Any further
discussion? There being none, all those in favor, please raise your hand. Anybody
opposed? No one is opposed. The motion is passed. Thank you all very much.
ADOPTED RESOLUTION: PB RESOLUTION NO. 2007 - 121
Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval
Harrick 2 -Lot Subdivision
340 West King Road
Tax Parcel No. 35 -2 -4
Town of Ithaca Planning Board
November 27, 2007
Motion made by Hollis Erb, seconded by Susan Riha.
WHEREAS.
1. This is consideration of Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval for the
proposed 2 -lot subdivision located at 340 West King Road, Town of Ithaca Tax
Parcel No. 35 -24, Agricultural Zone. The proposal involves subdividing a +/-
15.60 acre property into two lots resulting in a +/ -2.0 acre parcel that contains an
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 32
existing home and +/ -13.6 acre vacant parcel. Estate of Estelle Harrick, Owner;
Laurie R. Miller, Applicant, and
2. This is an Unlisted Action for which the Town of Ithaca Planning Board, acting as
lead agency in environmental review with respect to Subdivision Approval, has
on November 27, 2007, made a negative determination of environmental
significance, after having reviewed and accepted as adequate a Short
Environmental Assessment Form Part I submitted by the applicant, and Part II
prepared by the Town Planning staff, and
3. The Planning Board on November 27, 2007 has reviewed and accepted as
__adequate_ -a S.hort_Environmental Assessment- -Form Part I submitted by the
applicant, and Part II prepared by the Town Planning staff, a survey map entitled
"Survey Map, No. 340 West King Road, Town of Ithaca, Tompkins County, New
York," prepared by Lee Dresser, T.G. Miller P.C., dated October 11, 2007, and
revised November 19, 2007, and other application materials.
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED:
That.the Planning Board hereby grants Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval for
the proposed 2 -lot subdivision located at 340 West King Road, Town of Ithaca Tax
Parcel No. 35 -2 -4, as shown on the survey map entitled "Survey Map, No. 340 West
King Road, Town of Ithaca, Tompkins County, New York," prepared by Lee Dresser,
T.G. Miller P.C., dated October 11, 2007, and revised November 19, 2007, subject to
the following conditions:
a. Prior to signing of the plat by the Planning Board Chair, submission of an
easement to allow Parcel A to access, use, and maintain the existing well
located on Parcel B, for review and approval by the Attorney for the Town,
and
b. Submission to the Town of Ithaca Planning Department of a filing receipt
when the approved subdivision plat is filed with the Tompkins County
Clerk's Office, and
C, No further subdivision of either lot shall be allowed, and
d. Any driveway constructed on the 13.6 acre parcel shall be located as far
south as possible to avoid the well and to locate the curb cut in a manner
that minimizes problems with sight distance on the curve on West King
Road.
A vote on the motion was as follows:
AYES: Wilcox, Hoffmann, Conneman, Thayer, Howe, Riha, Erb.
NAYS: None
Absent: Talty
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 33
The motion passed unanimously.
Chairperson Wilcox announces the next agenda item at 8:38 p.m.
SEQR
Southwoods 4 -Lot Subdivision, King Road East and Southwoods Drive
Joe Allen, 417 North Cayuga Street
Good evening. I am an attorney, I represent applicant.
— Chair-per-son– Wilcox -. Brief. -over view if_ you would -of what's being proposed this
evening.
Mr. Allen – We are proposing that northerly most tips of Lot 40 and Lot 41 of the
Southwoods subdivision be consolidated with the septic and detention pond lot set
aside in the original subdivision plan in order to increase the size of the lot and to
facilitate the County's use and maintenance of that facility.
Chairperson Wilcox – Questions with regard to environmental review. All right. Susan,
you're still writing over there aren't you?
Ms. Brock – Hold on...
Chairperson Wilcox – Joe, are you representing the owners of both Lots 39 and 40 as
shown on here?
Mr. Allen – With regard to this subdivision proposal, yes.
Chairperson Wilcox – Okay.
Mr. Walker – It's Lots 40 and 41.
Chairperson Wilcox – You're right, it's 40 and 41. Thank you very much. It's a bit
unusual to have someone representing two separate owners, okay, I just want to make
sure of that, both existing owners are represented here...
Mr. Walker – three owner's are represented here.
Chairperson Wilcox – Well, the Town, I'm not worried about the Town...
Mr. Walker – Well, that's the fourth.
Chairperson Wilcox – Who else, wait a minute...
Mr. Walker – Southwoods Associates owns the detention pond, I believe, still...
Mr. Allen – Southwoods owns the detention pond...
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 34
Mr. Walker — So there's three separate owners. There's, technically, part, where we're
correcting here is the subdivision that was done without Planning Board approval
separating Lot 40, where the detention pond is from the what's called Lot 40a right now.
That was, that was done without the Planning Board approval, but now we're trying to
correct all these things, and what we're, the subdivision of the two slices off the Lot 40
and 41 will be to facilitate the Town owning all the sanitary facilities and not (inaudible)
so that the two property owners on Lot 40, 41 will not have any ... weIve had easements
up there before, but the ownership makes it cleaner for everybody.
Chairperson Wilcox — And the intent is to do what with Lot 40? Which is where the,
which is the storm...
Mr. Walker — Lot 40, the intent is that the Town will take ownership of that and maintain,
to maintain the stormwater management facility.
Alternate Member Erb — Of 40B?
Mr. Walker — No ... where's 40B?
Alternate Member Erb — 40B is the slice.
Mr. Walker — Okay, right, 40, 40B and 41 B would all be deeded over to the Town at the
same time. Those would all be consolidated into one lot and they all basically, the
sanitary facilities and the stormwater facilities.
Chairperson Wilcox — and the sewer lift station. Which is a pump, right.
Mr. Walker — A buried pump.
Chairperson Wilcox — To pump the sewage up...
Mr. Walker — Yes, up to Troy Road, so it can go back down the hill.
Chairperson Wilcox — Questions with regard to the environmental review?
Board Member Howe — I'll move the SEQR.
Chairperson Wilcox — so moved by Rod Howe, seconded by Larry Thayer.
Ms. Brock — I have no comments on this one.
Chairperson Wilcox — All those in favor please signal by saying aye ... anybody
opposed ... no one is opposed ... the motion is passed. Stay right there please Joe.
ADOPTED RESOLUTION. PB RESOLUTION NO. 2007 - 122
SEQR
Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval
Southwoods 4 -Lot Subdivision
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 35
King Road East & Southwoods Drive
Tax Parcel No.'s 46 -1- 15.401, 46 -1- 159402 & 46 -1 -15.41
Town of Ithaca. Planning Board
November 27, 2007
Motion made by Rod Howe, seconded by Larry Thayer.
WHEREAS.
1
This is consideration of Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval for the
proposed 4 -lot subdivision located off King Road East and Southwoods Drive,
Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No.'s 4671-1.5..401,-46-1-15.402, and 46-1- 15.41, Low
Density Residential Zone. The proposal involves subdividing off the northeastern
ends of lots 40 ( +/- 0.12 acres) and 41 ( +/- 0.06 acres), which will then be
consolidated with Tax Parcel No. 46=1- 15.401. The new parcel ( +/- 1.13 acres
total) will contain the new sewer lift station and the stormwater detention pond
and will be transferred to the Town of Ithaca. Southwoods Associates, LLC.,
Heritage Park Townhouses, Inc., and George C. & 'Billie J. Awad,
Owners /Applicants; Joseph W. Allen, Agent, and
2. This is an Unlisted Action for which the Town of Ithaca Planning Board is acting
as Lead Agency in this uncoordinated environmental review with respect to
Subdivision Approval, and
3. The Planning Board on November 27, 2007, has reviewed and accepted as
adequate a Short Environmental Assessment Form Part I, submitted by the
applicant, and Part II prepared by the Town Planning staff, a survey map entitled
"Survey Map of Lands of Southwoods Subdivision," prepared by Michael J.
Reagan, Reagan Land Surveying, dated February 2007, amended 7/11/07, and
other application materials, and
4. The Town planning staff has recommended a negative determination of
environmental significance with respect to the proposed Subdivision Approval;
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED:
That the Town of Ithaca Planning Board hereby makes a negative determination of
environmental significance for the reasons set forth in the Environmental Assessment
Form Part II referenced above, in accordance with the New York State Environmental
Quality Review Act for the above referenced action as proposed, and, therefore, an
Environmental Impact Statement will not be required.
A vote on the motion was as follows:
AYES: Wilcox, Hoffmann, Conneman, Thayer, Howe, Riha, Erb.
NAYS: None
Absent: Talty
The motion passed unanimously.
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 36
Chairperson Wilcox announces the next agenda item at 8:43p.m.
PUBLIC HEARING
Consideration of Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval for the proposed 4W
lot subdivision located off King Road East and Southwoods Drive, Town of Ithaca
Tax Parcel No's 46 -1- 15.401, 46 -1- 15.402, and 46 -1- 15.41, Low Density Residential
Zone The proposal involves subdividing off the northeastern ends of lots 40 ( +l-
0 12 acres) and 41 ( +/= 0.06 acres), which will then be consolidated with Tax Parcel
No 46 -1 -15 401 The new parcel ( +/- 1.13 acres total) will contain the new sewer
lift station and the stormwater detention pond and will be transferred to the Town
of Ithaca Southwoods Associates, LLC., Heritage Park Townhouses, Inc., and
George C & Billie J Awad, Owners /Applicants; Joseph W. Allen, Agent.
Chairperson Wilcox — Questions with regard to the subdivision... there are none ... Mr.
Allen if you would have a seat please. Ladies and Gentlemen, this is a public hearing, if
you wish to address the Board this evening on this particular agenda item, once again,
we invite you to come up to the microphone, have a seat, give us your name and
address. There being no one, we will close the public hearing at 8:45p.m
Would someone like to move the...
Mr. Walker — I have one comment. As representing the Town here. If you notice on the
Lot 41A and 41B, there's a very tiny little triangle up in the corner and there's a little
dash line there, on the map...
Chairperson Wilcox — Point ... I don't know where you are.
Mr. Walker — Right up there ... we actually have ... there's actually an access driveway
that was built by the contractor when they built the pump station and we are using that
now. We don't have Mr. Awad present tonight, but I would ask that it might possible be
considered if it's alright with Mr. Awad to modify that lot slightly by drawing a line
between the two points there, to make that triangle be part of the slice. If not, we can
work around that with easements and things like that. It just makes it cleaner for the
Town. This is something that my field guy brought up to me yesterday.
Chairperson Wilcox — I have a sugg ... Joe, I'm gonna need you to come up here just in
case.
Well, let's see. We on the ... we as the Planning Board can jump all over you because
you want us to approve a subdivision that's different from the one that's in front of us,
but we won't do that because we love you.
Mr. Walker — But you might see a report next month that I've made a minor correction...
Chairperson Wilcox — Well that's what I'm thinking. Here's what we could do, and I
want to do what's best for all parties involved...
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 37
Mr. Walker — That's what I would actually like to do, is just talk to the Board ... Do you
have a problem with me making that minor change if it's all right with the land owners.
Chairperson Wilcox — Joe, here's what we can do, and this has been done in the past.
We can approve what's in front of us tonight. To not approve what's in front of us
tonight actually creates a problem, because we don't have that actual survey of what's
being proposed ... So what we can do is approve what's in front of us. The Town
Engineer has the right, under the zoning ordinance, to approve small changes in lot
lines and exercise his authority no more than maybe once or twice a year, but this might
be a reasonable time when the Engineer, the Town Engineer can work with you, the
agent for the owners, to make a small lot -line modification, or, possibly not but certainly
work it out.
Mr. Allen — I have no problem (inaudible)
Chairperson Wilcox — But for us to approve something different than what's in front of us
tonight ... I don't want to go there. I don't want to approve a subdivision without having a
licensed, surveyed plat in front of me and I don't think anybody else would want 'to
either. So, if you want, if you think it's in the Town's best interests and the current
property owners' best interests to make a small change, everybody agrees to it and you
figure out who's going to pay for the change, then you can, under the current zoning,
make that minor lot -line modification. Okay. Where am I ... do I have a ....
Board Member Conneman — I'll move it.
Chairperson Wilcox — So moved by George Conneman, seconded by Hollis Erb. No
changes Susan?
Ms. Brock — No, no changes.
Chairperson Wilcox — Any changes... Daniel... you're comfortable with the language?
Mr. Walker — I'm all set.
Chairperson Wilcox - Michael, you're comfortable with the language?
Mr. Smith — yup.
Chairperson Wilcox — There being no further discussion, all those in favor please signal
by saying aye, all those opposed ... any abstentions... the motion is passed.
Thank you gentlemen and thank you for your patience
ADOPTED RESOLUTION: PB RESOLUTION NO. 2007 - 123
Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval
Southwoods 4 -Lot Subdivision
King Road East & Southwoods Drive
Tax Parcel No's. 46 -1- 15.401, 46 -1- 15.402 & 46 -1 -15.41
PB 11 /27/2007 Pg. 38
Town of Ithaca Planning Board
November 27, 2007
Motion made by George Conneman, seconded by Hollis Erb.
WHEREAS.
1. This is consideration of Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval for the
proposed 4 -lot subdivision located off King Road East and Southwoods Drive,
Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No.'s 46 -1- 15.401, 46 -1- 15.402, and 46 -1- 15.41, Low
Density Residential Zone. The proposal involves subdividing off the northeastern
ends of lots__40- _( ± /= 0.12acres)_and _41( +/- 0.06 will then be
consolidated with Tax Parcel No. 46 -1- 15.401. The new parcel ( +/- 1.13 acres
total) will contain the new sewer lift station and the stormwater detention pond
and will be transferred to the Town of Ithaca. Southwoods Associates, LLC.,
Heritage Park Townhouses, Inc., and George C. & Billie J. Awad,
Owners /Applicants; Joseph W. Allen, Agent, and
2. This is an Unlisted Action for which the Town of Ithaca Planning Board, acting as
lead agency in environmental review with respect to Subdivision Approval, has
on November 27, 2007, made a negative determination of environmental
significance, after having reviewed and accepted as adequate a Short
Environmental Assessment Form Part I, submitted by the applicant, and Part II
prepared by the Town Planning staff, and
3. The Planning Board on November 27, 2007, has reviewed and accepted as
adequate a Short Environmental Assessment Form Part I, submitted by the
applicant, and Part II prepared by the Town Planning staff, a survey map entitled
"Survey Map of Lands of Southwoods Subdivision," prepared by Michael J.
Reagan, Reagan Land Surveying, dated February 2007, amended 7/11/07, and
other application materials, and
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED:
2. That the Town of Ithaca Planning Board hereby waives certain requirements for
Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval, as shown on the Preliminary and
Final Subdivision Checklists, having determined from the materials presented
that such waiver will result in neither a significant alteration of the purpose of
subdivision control nor the policies enunciated or implied by the Town Board, and
3. That the Planning Board hereby grants Preliminary and Final Subdivision
Approval for the proposed 4 -lot subdivision located off King Road East and
Southwoods Drive, as shown on the survey map entitled "Survey Map of Lands
of Southwoods Subdivision," prepared by Michael J. Reagan, Reagan Land
Surveying, dated February 2007, amended 7/11/07, subject to the following
conditions:
a. submission of a copy of the receipt of filing the plat, to the Town of Ithaca
Planning Department, and
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 39
b. within six months of this approval, consolidation of Lots "40 B" and "41 B"
with Tax Parcel 46 -1- 15.401 (stormwater detention pond parcel), and
evidence of such consolidation to be submitted to the Town of Ithaca
Planning Department.
A vote on the motion was as follows:
AYES: Wilcox, Hoffmann, Conneman, Thayer, Howe, Riha, Erb.
NAYS: None
Absent: Talty
The motion passed unanimously.
Chairperson Wilcox announced the next agenda item at 8:49p.m.
SEQR
Greenspun, Gizewski & Greenspun 2 -Lot Subdivision, 441 Bostwick Rd.
Chairperson Wilcox — Welcome. We really do appreciate your patience. I know you've
been here since around 7:00-o'clock.
Name and address please and an overview of what's being proposed.
Nathanial Greenspun and Susan Perry, 601 North Tioga Street
Chairperson Wilcox — Again, if you would, just a brief overview of what's being proposed
this evening.
Mr. Greenspun — To me it's a very simple goal, it's a large body of land. It's, we're
looking for a subdivision so we can build our home in the spring 2008.
Chairperson Wilcox — Who owns the land right now, by the way?
Mr. Greenspun — It's in common. I do., as well as my brother, Tom Greenspun, my
mother Barbara Gizewski. It was signed over by my grandfather who moved there,
probably 1959, bought a small farm and been, you know, kept in the family and that's
their intention. They intend to build their home in the spring. My brother Tom also lives
up there as well and he was, he's also on this deed. My grandfather just recently
signed over 58 point ... I don't know the point, the decimal, I don't know if that's
important ... he signed over 58 acres to the three of us in common. My older brother and
my mother and Susan, my wife and I look forward to building in the spring.
Chairperson Wilcox — You're lovely wife. Alright. If I remember correctly, this would
bet /3 of that parcel, not exactly a third but very close.
Mr. Greenspun — Roughly 19.49 acres I think.
PB 11 /27/2007 Pg. 40
Chairperson Wilcox — There was some, in the materials provided, Susan Ritter, the
Staff, mentioned in some ways this prevents further subdivision of the large parcels
remaining. And you are aware of that?
Mr. Greenspun — Right.
Chairperson Wilcox — okay, because we have had other applicants come in for a
subdivision and when we pointed that out, that they were going to box themselves in,
creating a large lot to the rear that couldn't further be subdivided, they walked out...
Mr. Greenspun — Right there is the issue of landlock, a landlock situation. So that flag,
out to the road, is quite narrow, but we figured we could divide that in half and therefore
we wouldn't be landlocking the remainder of the land.
Chairperson Wilcox — I have to admit, if they came in with the full parcel, all the land
that's shown on here and asked us, can we subdivide the parcel like this, I don't think
we would ever say yes, but, for historical reasons, we have wound up in this position of
rather unusual lotlines.
Mr. Greenspun — Yeah, it is a very unique shape.
Chairperson Wilcox — Yeah ... that's for sure. Okay. Any other questions with regard to
the environmental review? There being none, would someone like to move the SEQR
motion? So moved by Larry Thayer, seconded by George Conneman. We should point
out that this is also, this land is also in an agricultural zone, as was the land on East
King Road. There being no further discussion...
Alternate Member Erb -- Because this is the SEAR, does the fact that it includes a
Unique Natural Area come into consideration?
Mr. Kanter —Absolutely.
Board Member Riha — Yeah, I think we need to say something.
Alternate Member Erb — Yeah, I mean, I would not like to see the home built, plunked
down in the UNA, for example.
Ms. Perry — The Unique Natural Area is on the back, so it would be on the bigger parcel
that we wouldn't retain ownership of. We're building up, farther up, much farther up.
We don't even, the new parcel won't even contain any of that Unique Natural Area.
Mr. Greenspun — Our house will be, you know, in our best interests, not to build a
driveway that goes on and on forever. We're going to be within pretty close proximity of
the road.
Board Member Riha
— But
we're
creating
here, Parcel A and Parcel B and there is a
chance that a house
would
go on
Parcel B.
Right?
Chairperson Wilcox — Absolutely.
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 41
Board Member Riha — And I think that's maybe what Hollis is concerned about. There's
not a whole lot of room on Parcel B.
Ms. Perry — That Unique Natural Area's not, there's really no home sites there, it's kind
of at the bottom of a ravine. There's a creek...
14t
Board Member Riha — Right, so the way you have Parcel B it would almost be
impossible to site a house.
Ms. Perry — No one has any intention of building there. We're talking about putting a
conservation easement on the back end of the property.
Board Member Riha — Right, so that's what we're wanting to discuss right now, because
otherwise, it wouldn't make sense to maybe split these up this way, which would
basically force, if you were going to allow a house to be in Parcel B, it would...
Alternate Member Erb — It would either come into the land that is open land that I think
is being farmed, or, it would encroach upon the Unique Natural Area.
Board Member Riha — Right. The way you got it, there's almost nothing until you get
back into this Unique Natural Area, there's no place to build a house.
Alternate Member Erb — So I wanted to raise it
Chairperson Wilcox — You think that we need to take any action at this point?
Board Member Riha — I'm concerned because otherwise you would divide up these
Parcel A and Parcel B differently. If you thought, if you thought you were going to have
both of them have houses, you basically put all of the land that you want to retain as a
Unique Natural Area in Parcel B. Therefore making it extremely difficult to site a house
and so you would split them up differently if you thought we want to put two houses on
here but also be sensitive to maintaining the natural area. Unless we agreed right now
that Parcel B would not...
Mr. Greenspun — Can I just say that I entirely understand your concern, but as a family,
we have had several meetings and it is in everybody's interest to entirely preserve this
land. So there is no further development.
Board Member Riha — So you wouldn't have a problem with us putting in this resolution
that Parcel B would not...
Mr. Greenspun — Well, I actually would have a problem with it because the development
would go right in front of our house. You need a minimum amount of road frontage and
then it needs to open up to another minimum requirement, 100 feet back, so where it
opens up, into the field there, that's where we want to put our house, so if we were to
not take that ... to the east...
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 42
Board Member Riha — I see what you're saying. You're concerned that a house could
be put there.
Mr. Greenspun — Exactly. Whereas anybody in their right mind wouldn't want to build a
house way in the back near the ravine and the cattails, I mean, I walk that...
Board Member Riha — But somebody might.
Ms. Perry — Well the current owners have houses on adjacent lots already and so
they're not interested in building on this land, they live right next door.
---Board Member Riha —.Right, but I._am just saying, .you'd have road frontage and there
would be nothing, if somebody bought it, that would restrict them, presumably, at this
point.
Alternate Member Erb — I'm not even sure that I am looking for a restriction as much as
a clear understanding that with the shape going forward the way it is, I see that a lot of
the remaining bigger lot would be part of a Unique Natural Area and part of a farm field
which we, as a Planning Board, would feel possibly uncomfortable with for house siting.
I am trying very hard not to make an affirmative plat declaration.
Board Member Hoffmann — I wanted to ask, if on this site plan, based on a photo we
got, if the green striped area is quite accurate as to where the UNA is?
Ms. Ritter — That is fairly accurate, so the Unique Natural Area as shown on here is
actually incorporating a lot of agricultural land. So there is a lot of open area. There is
some woods and I think they have probably the most important part of the Unique
Natural Area is this back area where there's a stream. That is probably, kind of got a
riparian area there, is that correct? You guys know the land pretty well. I would
assume that that's a pretty nice wooded area towards the very back, and then the back
you have those two large fields as well as behind, you know, there's also open, there's
a pond if you see, you see a pond off to the east. There's also a disturbed area,
another disturbed area that's within that Unique Natural Area, so, a good deal of the
Unique Natural Area on this particular property looks like it's been developed for
agricultural right now.
Mr. Greenspun — It's been ...
Alternate Member Erb — We're pro - agricultural also, so...
Mr. Greenspun — It's been rented to the farmers in the surrounding areas...
Board Member Riha — I guess, the thing, and you guys have more experience than me,
I'm just concerned about approving a subdivision as kind of strange as this one...
Ms. Ritter — It is definitely odd shaped but...
Board Member Riha — Basically, I mean, in theory, you would have the right to put a
house on Parcel B and you would.have to put a lot of road to get to a spot. I mean, you
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 43
made it that way. So they couldn't be anywhere in the front where you guys want to be,
but that kind of means that you are going to be putting a lot of road and basically placing
those people in a UNA. But, maybe that's okay.
Ms. Ritter — It also could be that the area continues to be farmed and there is 39 acres
and that is a fair amount of land for some sort of farming. I guess it's an unknown, way
down the road.
Mr. Greenspun — We plan on continuing to rent it out to the neighboring farmers.
Ms. Ritter — Right, but sometimes we think beyond you guys, you know, the next
_
--generation.-Maybe it'll. be your kids, who knows.
Ms. Perry — That's why we are thinking conservation easement so it stands after we're
all gone. At least on that Unique Natural Area which is the back end of the property
which nobody has any interest in ever developing, among us.
Mr. Walker — Is the family going to commonly own that Parcel B then, still?
Ms. Perry No. It would pass to the, Tom and Barbara, but, so, we don't have any say
whether or not they do that, but we've been talking about it for the past couple of
months and we're going to advocate they continue with those plans.
Mr. Walker — And probably if, there is a driveway all the way back to that little house on
that little spot there, chances are you would have some agreement to utilize that
driveway and not build a whole 'nother road back in there.
Ms. Perry — Right, well, part of what we're trying to do, I've been in contact with the New
York Agriculture Land Trust about putting an agricultural easement on our new parcel,
which could affect that shared border. So there could potentially be no road that goes
down that narrow strip because it's agricultural land. So, we're just kind of in the stage
of figuring out whether it's a acceptable parcel to do an easement on, whether it's open
space, scenic value or agricultural character. So that, because we don't want to see a
road go down our view either, so.
Board Member Hoffmann — If I can finish what I started asking about, I wanted to point
out to you that if the area marked in green on this aerial photo is correct, which I hear it
is, then, the lots as shown on this survey do, in fact, take in some of that UNA, Unique
Natural Area, in contrast to what you indicated you thought.
Ms. Perry — Which lot is the smaller lot... the... let's see ... the southern most end of
Parcel A is in the Unique Natural Area, I didn't realize that it included it on our parcel. I
thought it was on the remaining parcel, I guess because ... this map that I am looking at
doesn't have the subdivision drawn on it and I thought it ended kind of around ... if it has
it at all it's probably just a corner of it...
Board Member Hoffmann — No, (tape changed)...
Numerous voices all talking, discussing the maps.
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 44
Ms. Ritter —.It might be the southern 100 feet or so, Susan, or maybe 75, when
you ... compare Tom's (everyone speaking over each other) ... so it's really just the very
bottom southern portion.
Board Member Hoffmann — Right, but if you also compare it to that smaller parcel which
says Pastor, resident owner, which is this one here, this little spot ... that is very close to
the UNA and if you look at the survey map, you can see that the UNA would come up
quite close to that too. So it's probably further up than you realize.
Ms. Perry — Okay.
Ms. Ritter — But Eva, much of that UNA area has been developed, as you can see from
the aerial.
Board Member Hoffmann — Right. I just want to be sure that they understand that this
UNA map is correct, that it...
Chairperson Wilcox — Let's say it's been disturbed as use for farmland.
Ms. Ritter — Yeah, I think if you looked up the description of the Unique Natural Area,
they wouldn't be describing the farm fields that are there.
Mr. Greenspun — As far as I can tell, you know, I've walked the land over the years a
lot, I actually hunt up there sometimes, the farmers have made use of all of the land
that's, you know, has good drainage. So they may have hayed some of that UNA area
but the land that there's kind of a wetland, a cattail area and then there's a ravine.
That's been very untouched, it still remains, and that's what we would hope to continue
to maintain.
Chairperson Wilcox — As much as I don't want to prolong this, what is the Castor
property? What is this funny piece?
Ms. Perry — It's a neighbor, I don't know.
Chairperson Wilcox — Do they have a house there?
Ms. Perry — Yeah. That's their driveway. Yeah.
Chairperson Wilcox — Okay. Who approved that subdivision... laughter...
Board Member Hoffmann — I just wanted to ask you, Sue, are there any restrictions on
the farming that goes on in a UNA?
Ms. Ritter — Well, UNA's have no restrictions remember, they are just an area identified,
for towns to identify areas that are important to the town so they can make some kind of
policy decisions, as we have, and a number of them for conservation zones, but there's
no..
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 45
Board Member Hoffmann — We have made no restrictions on how to farm in the UNA?
Ms Ritter — That might be something to think about, in the future.
Chairperson Wilcox — Any further discussion with regard to the environmental review?
Are you comfortable with right now?
Alternate Member Erb — I wanted to make sure that applicants and we had talked about
it because I would foresee potential problems siting a house if it came back to us.
Chairperson Wilcox — Okay. Would you like to move the SEQR moition?
Alternate Member Erb — Sure.
Board Member Thayer — We did...
Chairperson Wilcox — We did, I'm sorry ... how long ago... laughter... okay, Larry and
George... okay... any further discussion with regard to the environmental review? All set
on this side? Susan and Susan? (yup) All right. There being no further discussion, all
those in favor please signal by saying aye, anybody opposed? No one is opposed,
there are no abstentions... that's part one, as you found out from sitting here.
ADOPTED RESOLUTION: PB RESOLUTION NO. 2007 - 124
SEQR
Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval
Greenspun, Gizewski & Greenspun 2 -Lot
Subdivision, Bostwick Road
Tax Parcel No. 32 -2 -3.22
Town of Ithaca Planning Board
November 27, 2007,
MOTION made by Larry Thayer, seconded by George Conneman.
WHEREAS.
1. This is consideration of Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval for the
proposed 2 -lot subdivision located just east of 433 and 439 Bostwick Road, Town
of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 32 -2 -3.22, Agricultural Zone. The proposal involves
subdividing the +/- 59.5 acre property into two lots, with Parcel A being +/_ 19.8
acres and Parcel B being 39.7 acres. Tom Greenspun, Barbara Gizewski and
Nathaniel Greenspun, Owners; Nathaniel Greenspun and Susan Perri,
Applicants, and . '
2. This is an Unlisted Action for which the Town of Ithaca Planning Board is acting
as Lead Agency in this uncoordinated environmental review with respect to
Subdivision Approval, and
3. The Planning Board on November 27, 2007, has
adequate a Short Environmental Assessment Forr
applicant, and Part II prepared by the Town Planning
"Showing Proposed Parcels to be Conveyed by
Gizewski & Nathaniel Greenspun" prepared by T. G.
and other application materials, and
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 46
reviewed and accepted as
n Part I, submitted by the
staff, a survey map entitled
Tom Greenspun; Barbara
Miller P.C., dated 10/15/07
4. The Town planning staff has recommended a negative determination of
environmental significance with respect to the proposed Subdivision Approval;
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED.
That the Town of Ithaca Planning Board hereby makes a negative determination of
environmental significance for the reasons set forth in the Environmental Assessment
Form Part II referenced above, in accordance with the New York State Environmental
Quality Review Act for the above referenced action as proposed, and, therefore, an
Environmental Impact Statement will not be required.
A vote on .the motion was as follows:
AYES: Wilcox, Hoffmann, Conneman, Thayer, Howe, Riha, Erb.
NAYS: None
Absent: Talty
The motion passed unanimously.
Chairperson Wilcox announces the next agenda item at 9:06 p.m.
PUBLIC HEARING
Consideration of Preliminary and Final Sub
lot subdivision located Oust east of 433 and
Tax Parcel No. 32 -2 -3.22, Agricultural Zone.
the +/- 59.5 acre property into two lots, with
Parcel B being +/- 39.7 acres. Tom Greensg
Greenspun, Owners /Applicants.
division Approval for the proposed 2-
439 Bostwick Road. Town of Ithaca
The proposal involves subdividing
Parcel A being +/- 19.8 acres and
)un. Barbara Gizewski & Nathaniel
Chairperson Wilcox — Questions with regard to subdivision? Okay. So I don't have to
make you move....Ladies and Gentlemen, this is a public hearing, once again, any
member of the audience wish to address the Planning Board at this time? There being
no one, I will close the public hearing at 9:07p.m
Who wants to move the resolution as drafted? So moved by Rod Howe, seconded by
Hollis Erb. Susan, Attorney for the Town...
Ms. Brock — Just two typographical errors. On the second page, B, the last word should
be and with a d on the end. And then C kind of ends midstream with a comma and an
and, I assume after the words Planning Department you want a period?
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 47
Ms. Ritter —Yes.
Ms. Brock — And nothing after that.
Chairperson Wilcox — Are those changes acceptable Rod and Hollis ... yes they
are ... any further discussion? There being none, all those in favor please signal by
saying aye ... anybody opposed? No one is opposed, there are no abstentions, the
motion is passed. Thank you very much.
ADOPTED RESOLUTION: PB RESOLUTION NO. 2007 - 125
Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval
Greenspun Gizewski & Greenspun 42 -Lot
Subdivision, Bostwick Road
Tax Parcel No. 32 -2 -3.22
Town of Ithaca Planning Board
November 27, 2007
Motion made by Rod Howe, seconded by Hollis Erb.
WHEREAS.
1. This is consideration of Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval for the
proposed 2 -lot subdivision located just east of 433 and 439 Bostwick Road, Town
of Ithaca Tax Parcel No, 32 -2 -3.22, Agricultural Zone. The proposal involves
subdividing the +/- 59.5 acre property into two lots, with Parcel A being +/- 19.8
acres and Parcel B being 39.7 acres. Tom Greenspun, Barbara Gizewski and
Nathaniel Greenspun, Owners; Nathaniel Greenspun and Susan Perri,
Applicants, and
2. The is an Unlisted Action for which the Town of Ithaca Planning Board, acting as
lead agency in environmental review with respect to Subdivision Approval, has
on November 27, 2007, made a negative determination of environmental
significance, after having reviewed and accepted as adequate a Short.
Environmental Assessment Form Part I, submitted by the applicant, and Part II
prepared by the Town Planning staff, and
3. The Planning Board on November 27, 2007, has
adequate a Short Environmental Assessment Forr
applicant, and Part II prepared by the Town Planning
"Showing Proposed Parcels to be Conveyed by
Gizewski & Nathaniel Greenspun" prepared by T. G.
and other application materials, and
reviewed and accepted as
n Part I, submitted by the
staff, a survey map entitled
Tom Greenspun; Barbara
Miller P.C., dated 10/15/07
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED:
1. That the Town of Ithaca Planning Board hereby waives certain requirements for
Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval, as shown on the Preliminary and
Final Subdivision Checklists, having determined from the materials presented that
PB 11 /27/2007 Pg. 48
such waiver will result in neither a significant alteration of the purpose of
subdivision control nor the policies enunciated or implied by the Town Board, and
2. That the Planning Board hereby grants Preliminary and Final Subdivision
Approval for the proposed 2 -lot subdivision located just east of 433 and 439
Bostwick Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 32 -2 -3.22, as shown on the
survey map entitled a survey map entitled "Showing Proposed Parcels to be
Conveyed by Tom Greenspun; Barbara Gizewski & Nathaniel Greenspun"
prepared by T. G. Miller P.C., dated 10/15/07 subject to the following conditions:
a. granting of the necessary variances by the Zoning Board of Appeals, prior
to signing of the plat by the Planning Board Chairman, and
b submission for signing by the Chairman of the Planning Board of an
original or mylar copy of the final subdivision plat, and three dark -lined
prints, prior to filing with the Tompkins County Clerk's Office, and
C, submission of a copy of the receipt of filing the plat, to the Town of Ithaca
Planning Department.
A vote on the motion was as follows:
AYES: Wilcox, Hoffmann, Conneman, Thayer, Howe, Riha, Erb.
NAYS: None
Absent: Talty
The motion passed unanimously.
Chairperson Wilcox announces the next agenda item at 9:10p.m.
PUBLIC HEARING
Consideration of Final Site Plan Approval for the proposed Skilled Nursing / Adult
Care Addition at Longview, an Ithacare Community, located at 1 Bella Vista Drive,
Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 39 -1 -1.31, Planned Development Zone No. 7. The
proposal involves the construction of a +/- 24,700 square foot addition on the
north side of the existing building with +/- 32 living units. The proposal will also
include approximately 11 new parking spaces (and an area reserved for future
parking if needed), a new driveway, new walkways, and additional stormwater
facilities. Ithacare Center Service Company, Inc., Owner /Applicant; Mark A.
Macera, Executive Director, Agent.
Chairperson Wilcox — Before we begin, Mark, you and I are what, third or fourth
cousins?
Mr. Macera — Somewhere in that order.
Chairperson Wilcox — Somewhere around there. Thank you very much. Before we
begin, we want to thank you for bringing samples. We love it. We had somebody do it
at our last meeting. We thanked them immensely, we thank you as well. We
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 49
appreciate it when people bring these in, it really makes our job that much easier.
Having said that, sir, the floor is yours.
Mark Macera, Executive Director, Ithaca re /Longview, 101 Bella Vista Drive
We made application back in October +/- October 10th, for final site plan approval for our
building expansion or addition and to support that application, we responded to the
questions that were contained in the approved resolution for preliminary site plan
approval, I don't recall the date, and those conditions were addressed and discussed
with the Staff. I think we've since provided some additional information in the form of
color renderings, I believe, and I have brought a larger board depicting that rendering of
the building expansion. I also brought the proposed material selection for the fagade.
Those in fact are the items that currently side the Longview facility which is essentially a
corrugated vinyl siding along with asphalt shingle. Our architectural design and half
bricks, here, but those bricks, as part of the panel and combination of altering vinyl and
brick. The more maroon or the brown go around 98% - 99% of the building and that
darker brown coal black is an intermittent brick that's found in. the exterior of the
building. I think with that, I am prepared to respond to any of the issues that remain,
perhaps questions or comments.
Chairperson Wilcox — The fire department, in their review, requested an additional fire
hydrant. That hydrant has been shown on the revised drawings, correct? Okay. That's
my only question at this point.
Board Member Hoffmann — Did you say that the colors that you brought the samples of
are the same colors that are used in the existing building?
Mr. Macera — Yes, they are identical. We planned this ... we contacted the manufacturer
to select the exact same colors to the extent that the bricks, in terms of the lot and
mixture might be of a slightly different tone, we plan to certainly match that to maintain a
certain configuration and design. Perhaps the only detail that we haven't determined,
which is pending some final discussions regarding the issue of the price for the
construction contract, is exactly how much brick. But as you see in the current building,
they are alternating panels. This is basically a ranch -style single -story. There is so
much siding, we don't need to break it up as much and perhaps we will minimize the
brick on the proposed addition to save on some of the costs. It will not be the same
proportion of alternating brick and siding .on.the new building.
Board Member Conneman — I'm curious, question, has there been any progress on the
licensing, or has New York State just not doing anything on that?
Mr. Macera — I think the progress is more of at a snail's pace so it's difficult to measure
at this point in time. I can tell you that as recently as the discussion that I had with
Assemblywoman Lifton, that the bill that was crafted to propose our licensing facility,
arguably on opening day, as a residential healthcare facility or a skilled nursing facility,
went to the Governor's desk on, I was told, November 23rd, so under statute that the
Governor has so many days to act on that. So that may or may not happen. We're also
waiting a decision, based on the State's promulgation of what is the ALR licensure,
Assisted Living Residence applications of which we have one in the pipeline, and no
PB 11 /27/2007 Pg. 50
decision has been made on that pending again, some public feedback on public notice
regarding promulgation of the regulations and so forth. We do, have discussed with the
State, preliminarily, the licensing also as a simple addition to the current facility as a
Adult Care facility. They are the same three options that we discussed previously, that
are available to us to license this facility, are still on the table and probably not much
more information to say that it's going to be this one, the second or the third, at this
point in time. All options are still open to us at this point in time.
Chairperson Wilcox — Comment only, that Dan Walker, we have a memo from Dan,
having reviewed the construction details of the stormwater management and has
determined that they are satisfactory. Stand by that Dan? While you're here...Dan, do
you have a_ license, -to practice., ,never mind, that goes back to a Zoning Board meeting
I was at ... not here...we don't have to go there here. That was at a Zoning Board
meeting. No, I know, I was just shocked when you were asked that at the ZBA meeting,
but there's a reason for it. Okay. Mark, have you seen the draft resolution?
Mr. Macera — Yes I have.
Chairperson Wilcox — Any questions or comments about the conditions?
Mr. Macera — No, and I agree and I have had some preliminary discussions with the
Town Planner, Jon Kanter, with regards to some loose ends that deal with perhaps
some dates associated with the site plan on the easement. Issues having to do with, I
think, one of the lamps attached to the building and so forth and we plan t6o address, to
the Town Staff's satisfaction in those as conditions for approval.
Chairperson Wilcox — And one of the conditions had to do with one of the fixtures that
you had shown was not fully shielded and was not compliant with Town lighting
ordinance. Okay.
Alternate Member Erb — Excuse me, I didn't understand what you asked about the
hydrant. Is it already in place?
Chairperson Wilcox — No, it's shown on the...
Alternate Member Erb — Or is the fact that it's shown on the maps given to us adequate
that we don't have to condition approval on it?
Chairperson Wilcox— Yes. The fact that it's shown there...
Alternate Member Erb — Is adequate, okay, I didn't understand, thank you.
Chairperson Wilcox — Yes, the fire...when the Ithaca City Fire Department reviewed it,
they requested, capital R, an additional fire hydrant be located their and those are
shown on the map.
Mr. Macera = (points to the board),ItIs not on this one, and I don't know where the exact
location is, but basically near this cul -de -sac here for the fire and safety equipment 'to
PB 11 /27/2007 Pg. 51
gain access to the building and have the resources available for (inaudible)...so this
would be a fourth access point for the building.
Alternate Member Erb — It's actually shown on this side of the parking lot. Down, down,
down, right there.
Chairperson Wilcox — Thank you Hollis. Any further discussion? Once again, Ladies
and Gentlemen in the general public, this is a public hearing. Would anybody in the
audience like to address the Planning Board this evening? If so I will make Mr. Macera
take a seat so you can ... Stay right there, there is no one so we will close the public
hearing at 9:19p.m. Jonathan, you're comfortable?
Mr. Kanter —Yes.
Board Member Howe — I'll move the resolution.
Chairperson Wilcox — So moved by Rod Howe, seconded by Susan Riha. Any
changes, Attorney for the Town Susan?
Ms. Brock — I have no changes. I have one question. David Schlosser submitted, on,
received... a letter received by the Town on November 261h that encloses some copies
of the exterior. It's marked P1.0 and it's the prospective.
Chairperson Wilcox — This is the one that was in front of us when we came in?
Ms. Brock — Yes, it was on the desk tonight. His letter says he's enclosing this and that
the copies are a duplicate of that previously submitted, no changes. So my question is,
does the resolution need to reference this drawing or is that actually already in the
packet?
Mr. Kanter — Well, it's not one that's in the packet or otherwise we wouldn't have
needed it, so we might want to...
Ms. Brock — So we should add that to the list of drawings...
Chairperson Wilcox — Drawings referenced...
Mr. Kanter — Plus I think the description in the letter is helpful in terms of the description
of the finished materials, so we could even reference the letter itself.
Mr. Macera — And correct me if I am mistaken, I think he did mention of which I was
supposed to bring samples to show you this evening and those are those samples.
Chairperson Wilcox — Yes. Absolutely. Again, we thank'you. We love samples.
Mr. Kanter — And they go back on the existing building when you go back, right.
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 52
Mr. Walker — I think you need to correct the easement for the stormwater, or for the
construction. I think they've got you as the grantee giving Ithaca College permission to
be on their property.
Mr. Macera — I'll look into that Dan. I'm not familiar with that. I've talked, you know, with
Jon about a (inaudible) in terms of materials...
Mr. Walker — Yeah, there is ... the permanent easement for the grantor is not Longview,
grantor should be Ithaca College and ... for Grantee permission to build your slopes onto
their property.
Mr. Macera — Susan, isn't the Grantor the college and Longview the Grantee?
Mr. Walker — Grantor is, should be the College but you're listed as the Grantor in here,
SOY
Ms. Brock — Well, I think that condition F already covers that. Submission of an
easement agreement...
Chairperson Wilcox — Acceptable to the Attorney for the Town...
Ms. Brock — Right, giving Longview the right to do the grading and construction related,
so, I think the resolution already covers that issue, as well as...
Mr. Kanter — Just make sure the Grantor /Grantee wording is correct.
Mr. Macera — Can I just request a procedural issue. Can the Town Attorney, Susan,
could you take a look at that, and if there's anything else that needs adjusting, I will try
to take care of it in one transaction as opposed to back and forth and back and forth.
Jon reminded me that I think typically easements of this kind are reviewed by the Town
Attorney. I don't think the Town Attorney's had a chance to review anything that we've
prposed, to date, so...
Ms. Brock — No, I haven't seen it.
Mr. Macera — So could you take a cut at it.
Ms. Brock — I saw it today for the first time when I reviewed the packet, and I didn't have
time to look at the easement, but I saw the condition was in here saying that I was going
to be getting it, so I felt comfortable coming tonight without having actually read it.
So, we need to add to paragraph 5, under the whereas clauses, after the reference to
the list of drawings, "Longview Special Care Addition, date stamped received October
22, 2007 with individual revision dates specified "...we need to add a document dated
November 21, 2007 (date stamped received November 26, 2007) from, I'm sorry,
prepared by Schopfer Associates, Architects, I'm sorry, Architects, LLP and drawing
P1.0 dated 11/21/07 then put a comma and it can just follow with "other application
materials."
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 53
Chairperson Wilcox — Can you repeat that for me Susan.
Ms. Brock — Okay. So, add after the phrase 11 with individual revision dates specified",
",a document dated November 21, 2007 (date stamped received November 26, 2007)
prepared by Schopfer Architects, LLP and drawing P1.0 dated 11/21/07," And then,
wait, wait, and then we have to make the same change on resolved paragraph number
one. It would be exactly the same change, after "with individual revision dates
specified" right at the end of the first paragraph, just insert the same language there.
Chairperson Wilcox — Anything else Susan?
Ms. Brock — No, that's it.
Chairperson Wilcox — Changes acceptable Rod and Susan? Yes they are. Any further
discussion? There being none, all those in favor please signal by saying aye. Anybody
opposed? No one is opposed. Are there any abstentions? There are no abstentions.
The motion is passed.
Mr. Macera — Thank you all.
ADOPTED RESOLUTION:
PB RESOLUTION NO. 2007 - 126
Final Site Plan Approval
Longview Addition
1 Bella Vista Drive
Tax Parcel No. 39 -1 -1.31
Town of Ithaca Planning Board
November 27, 2007
Motion made by Rod Howe and seconded by Susan Riha.
WHEREAS:
1. This action is consideration of Final Site Plan Approval for the proposed
Skilled Nursing / Adult Care Addition at Longview, an Ithacare Community,
located at 1 Bella Vista Drive, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 39 -1 -1.31,
Planned Development Zone No. 7. The proposal involves the construction of
a +/- 24,700 square foot addition on the north side of the existing building with
+/- 32 living units. The proposal will also include approximately 11 new
parking spaces (and an area reserved for future parking if needed), a new
driveway, new walkways, and additional stormwater facilities. Ithacare Center
Service Company, Inc., Owner /Applicant; Mark A. Macera, Executive
Director, Agent, and
2. The proposed actions, which include site plan approval by the Planning Board
and enactment of a local law by the Town Board amending Planned
Development Zone No. 7, are Type I actions pursuant to the State
Environmental Quality Review Act, 6 NYCRR Part 617, and Town of Ithaca
Code, Chapter 148, Environmental Quality Review, for which the Planning
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 54
Board at its March 20, 2007 meeting issued a negative determination of
environmental significance, and
3. The Planning Board, at its meeting on March 20, 2007, granted Preliminary
Site Plan Approval with conditions for the proposal and issued an affirmative
recommendation to the Town Board regarding the proposed local law to
amend Planned Development Zone No. 7 to permit the proposed addition,
and
4. The Town Board, on May 7, 2007, did adopt "A Local Law Amending Chapter
271 of the Town of Ithaca Code, Titled "Zoning: Special Land Use Districts,"
_Regarding_ Increases in _Numbers_, Height and Uses of Dwelling Units in
ithacare's Special Land Use District No. 7 ", and
5. The Planning Board, at a Public Hearing held on November 27, 2007, has
reviewed and accepted as adequate, a document dated October 8, 20071
prepared by Schopfer Architects, LLP, Final Site Plan maps and drawings as
listed on the attached "List Of Drawings, Longview Special Care Addition
(date stamped received October 22, 2007) with individual revision dates
specified, a document dated November 21, 2007 (date stamped 11126/2007)
from Schopfer Architects and drawing P1.0 dated November 21, 2007, and
other application materials.
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED:
That the Town of Ithaca Planning Board hereby grants Final Site Plan Approval for the
proposed Skilled Nursing / Adult Care Addition at Longview, an Ithacare Community,
located at 1 Bella Vista Drive, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 39 -1 -1.31, Planned
Development Zone No. 7, as shown on the plans and details contained in the above -
referenced document dated October 8, 2007, prepared by Schopfer Architects, LLP,
Final Site Plan maps and drawings as listed on the attached "List Of Drawings,
Longview Special Care Addition (date stamped received October 22, 2007) with
individual revision dates specified, a document dated November 21, 2007 (date
stamped 11/26/2007) from Schopfer Architects and drawing P1.0 dated November 21,
2007, and other application materials. Subject to the following conditions:
a. Submission of one set of the final site plan drawings on mylar, vellum, or
paper, signed and sealed by the registered land surveyor, engineer,
architect, or landscape architect who prepared the site plan materials,
prior to issuance of any building permit, and
b. Submission of record of application for and approval status of all
necessary permits from any county, state, and /or federal agencies with
receipt of all necessary permits required before issuance of a Certificate of
Occupancy, and
c. Submission of a stormwater "Operation, Maintenance, and Reporting
Agreement" between the property owner and the Town of Ithaca for review
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 55
and approval of the Town Engineer and Attorney for the Town, prior to
issuance of any Certificate of Occupancy, and
d. Submission of final site, utility, and stormwater management facility
engineering details and construction specifications for review and approval
of the Town Engineer, prior to issuance of any building permit, and
b. Submission of detailed construction specifications for the material to be
stockpiled during construction of the addition, for review and approval of
the Town Engineer, prior to issuance of any building permit, and
c._ Submission of easement agreement, from Ithaca College, acceptable to
the Attorney for the Town, giving Longview the right to do grading,
construction and related activities, as well as to include permanent
improvements such as the stormwater pipe outlet and rip -rap outlet
(shown on Sheets C1.2 and C1.4, as revised most recently on 10/8/07) on
the adjacent property owned by Ithaca College, and
d. All lighting fixtures shall be fully - shielded to reduce glare and off -site
spillage of light, and comply with Chapter 173 of the Town of Ithaca Code
regarding Outdoor Lighting, and
e. Revision of Lighting Detail L3 shown on Sheet C1.6 Photometrics Plan to
substitute the Atlantis Catalogue No. 4321 CH2 (with opal glass) wall -
mounted lighting unit with a fixture that is fully shielded and compliant with
Chapter 173 of the Town of Ithaca Code as indicated in condition g above,
for review and approval of the Director of Planning, prior to issuance of
any building permit.
A vote on the motion was as follows:
AYES: Wilcox, Hoffmann, Conneman, Thayer, Howe, Riha, Erb.
NAYS: None
Absent: Tatty
The motion passed unanimously.
Chairperson Wilcox — What do we have in terms of minutes here? Do we have two?
Alright. Okay, yeah, we're gonna reference your memo here. So, tell me Paulette, what
do we need to do with regard to minutes. Don't tell me read the memo, tell me. So. we
have the minutes distributed that we had three weeks ago which were, which simple
need to be corrected in terms of the date.
Ms. Neilsen — Correct.
Chairperson Wilcox — And those have not been approved.
Ms. Neilsen — Correct.
PB 11127/2007 Pg. 56
Chairperson Wilcox — And then we have the ones in front of us.
Ms. Neilsen — Correct.
Chairperson Wilcox — Okay. So the first ones that have not been approved are the
October 16th ones. So I move approval of the minutes of October 16th, seconded by
Larry Thayer. All those in favor...anybody opposed....any abstentions... Eva abstains.
ADOPTED RESOLUTION: PB RESOLUTION NO. 2007 - 127
Approval of Minutes of October 16, 2007
Town. of Ithaca _Planning Board
November 27, 2007
MOTION made by Fred Wilcox, seconded by Larry Thayer.
WHEREAS:
The Town of Ithaca Planning Board has reviewed the draft minutes from October 16,
2007 and received the corrected cover page from the Clerk, and
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED:
The Town of Ithaca Planning Board approves the minutes, with corrections, to be the
final minutes of the meeting on October 16, 2007.
A vote on the motion was as follows:
AYES: Wilcox, Conneman, Thayer, Howe, Riha, Erb,
NAYS: None
Abstentions: Hoffmann
Absent: Talty
The motion passed.
Chairperson Wilcox — I hereby move approval of the minutes of November
6tt' ... seconded by Hollis ... all those in favor please signal by saying aye ... anybody
opposed ... any abstentions... Eva abstains ... the minutes are approved.
ADOPTED RESOLUTION: PB RESOLUTION NO. 2007 - 128
Approval of Minutes of November 6, 2007
Town of Ithaca Planning Board
November 27, 2007
MOTION made by Fred Wilcox, seconded by Hollis Erb.
WHEREAS:
The Town of Ithaca Planning Board has reviewed the draft minutes from November 6,
2007 and received the corrected cover page from the Clerk, and
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 57
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED:
The Town of Ithaca Planning Board approves the minutes, with corrections, to be the
final minutes of the meeting on November 6, 2007.
A vote on the motion was as follows:
AYES: Wilcox, Conneman, Thayer, Howe, Riha, Erb.
NAYS: None
Abstentions: Hoffmann
Absent: Talty
The motion passed.
Chairperson Wilcox — There are no person to be heard....
OTHER BUSINESS
Chairperson Wilcox — Okay, next weeks agenda was emailed to you today ... or
yesterday ... so we don't have to discuss it ... alright. You can read about it, since our
meeting is a week from today.
Better Housing
Chairperson Wilcox — I got a letter from Better Housing. I wanted to bring this to your
attention. Better Housing is partnering with the Planning Department, meaning the
County Planning Department, to organize training for municipal officials this winter. "
"Local Planning Board volunteers will be able to fulfill their mandated training
requirements while learning about the many benefits of nodal housing development and
mixed -use, mixed - income development. Our presentations will give leaders the tools
they need to move forward with housing creation."
So if you are looking to take care of your 2007, excuse me, 2008 required four hours,
or, since I already have 2008 fulfilled, can I do "09?
Ms. Brock — I don't think there's any limit on how far you can carry them...
Chairperson Wilcox — I don't know, I've got enough training hours in but, I though I
would bring that to everybody's attention.
Kendall Ave /Pennsylvania Ave
Chairperson Wilcox — Jonathan and I had a brief discussion about the Kendall
Avenue /Pennsylvania Avenue, remember we approved a subdivision which I think to a
person we disliked, which was the Orlando lacovelli subdivision and we made a
recommendation to the Town Board that they consider rezoning the area. We were
going to provide an update.
Mr. Kanter — Yeah, basically the Town, we did report that to the Town Board and the
Town Board set up a mini -subcommittee consisting of Peter Stein and Pat Leary, and
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 58
so Peter and Pat went out to talk to some of the neighborhood residents who had been
to Planning Board and Town Board meetings and had indicated some concerns. Got a
pretty good idea of what was going on, and then asked me to meet with Peter and Pat.
So I did, I got together with them and we were thinking about potential zoning changes,
just as we had started discussing here. You know, what types of zoning changes might
help the situation. So we talked about the size of the unit in the basement, which we
talked about here. We talked about perhaps and owner occupancy requirement for one
unit where you have a two - family unit. And a couple of other things ... And then I
volunteered to do sort of an inventory of all. of the high- density residential zone areas.
There are about 4 or 5 different areas around the Town including Pennsylvania /Kendall
Avenue ... a fairly good strip. along Danby Road, Glenside, actually, out on Five Mile
_
Drive,--which-it turns out to be_ almost _ entirely single- family, very few two - family units
there, and a couple of other little spots of that zone. So we are putting together an
inventory that actually shows the numbers of one- family, two- family, three- family,
multiple- family houses in each of the zones so we can get an idea. If we do some kind
of change, does it make sense to do it zone -wide in all high density residential zones, or
does it make more sense to do it just in the Pennsylvania /Kendall Avenue area.
Because the other areas may be different in character and may not have the same
issues. And if we do that, maybe it makes sense to actually change the zoning of the
Pennsylvania /Kendall Avenue area to something like a subset of high density residential
with some specific conditions in it. So we are working on that.
Chairperson Wilcox — An area that's experiencing unique pressures. CW
Mr. Kanter — Yeah.
So we will
let you know
how that
progresses. I guess something
eventually would
go
to Codes &
Ordinances to
work out
in more detail.
Chairperson Wilcox -- What else is on my list of Other Business...If you haven't seen
the agenda for our meeting next Tuesday. One of the items is a recommendation to the
Town Board for a Chair for this group next year. This is a non - binding recommendation
to the Town Board. I would ask that each of you ... first make a determination, would you
like to be Chair, and second of all, if you weren't the Chair, who would you want as the
Chair. And then maybe we could have a nice open discussion next Tuesday. Maybe it
will be short and brief, maybe it will be long, maybe we'll make a recommendation and
maybe we won't. But that is on the agenda for next Tuesday.
That's all on my list. We all set?
Mr. Kanter — Yup. ,lust, you have the environmental impact statement there from Ithaca
College...
Alternate Member Erb — Is that on the agenda?
Mr. Kanter — It's not on December 4th, it might be on December 18th for a preliminary
discussion but we still have time after that in terms of ... the next step is to consider
whether the EIS is complete enough to accept if for public review and comment at which
point we would then set a public hearing on it.
Board Member Riha - The stormwater in Phase 11 is (inaudible)...
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 59
Chairperson Wilcox — That's right. Next week's agenda was, is the three proposed laws
dealing with stormwater management and then there was one other item on it...
Mr. Kanter — Well there is the Henry subdivision...
Chairperson Wilcox — There is the Henry subdivision which comes back, hopefully we
don't spend an hour on that, but it's possible ... and
Mr. Kanter — A presentation by Debbie Teeter from Cooperative Extension on the 8 -year
review of Ag District No. 2.
Board Member Hoffmann — I wanted to ask about a couple of meetings that are coming
up. There's, on the 3rd this Special Town Board meeting on meeting structures and
such, to which we were all invited. Can we have some more information about that and
whether it's advisable for us all to come?
Chairperson Wilcox — I'm sorry. What do you mean by "all invited'?
Board Member Hoffmann — There was an email that came around addressed to all of us
and the public was invited too. You didn't see this?
Mr. Kanter — Well, it is a public meeting: It's a working Town Board meeting open to the
public, as any Town Board meeting is, but it's got a limited agenda to talk about
committee structure and assignments. You know, I guess the Town Board will figure
out what they want to do in terms of...
Board Member Conneman — What is under the two items that you are supposed to
open? I tried everything and I can't....at the bottom it says "image" and then it says
"only data "...what is there, is there anything? I tried to open it on my compute and I
couldn't do it.
Chairperson Wilcox — But it's a Special Town Board meeting to, I believe, 1, by the way,
I haven't gotten the email, at least I hadn't gotten it as of this evening, but it's a Special
Town Board meeting I think to begin looking at their procedures next year. Their
committee structure and their procedures for next year.
Board Member Hoffmann — Yeah, but is it something that you would advise us to go to,
if we can? There are so many other things going on this time of year that...
Chairperson Wilcox — I want to, I believe we all get agendas for every Town Board
meeting, so you have received an agenda for this Town Board meeting no different than
other, that's all.
Board Member Hoffmann — Right, but I though the topics on it were quite specific and
different from the usual.
Chairperson Wilcox — You're right, they are, but they are specific to the Town Board and
how they operate and their committee structure and their procedures.
PB 11/27/2007 Pg. 60
Alternate Member Erb — I bet she's asking whether it has to do with the Planning
Committee and the Planning Board.
Mr. Kanter — It very well may.
Chairperson Wilcox — It very well may have to do with Planning Committee,
Mr. Kanter — Among all the other Boards and Committees.
Chairperson Wilcox — It very well may come up.
Mr. Kanter — I would say that if any of you have any specific ideas on either, you know,
make appointments to this Board or a new Planning Committee, if there is one, that you
attend and voice your opinion. ,
Board Member Hoffmann —Well, sometimes one has to make a choice of what to
attend, that's the problem and there is also this notice about on December7th, this
training on Diversity, yeah, and I can go to part of it but I have something else for part of
it, and I guess I will try to go to part of it, because that seems like a useful thing.
Mr. Kanter — I think Judy will want to know if you are able to attend it. She does need a
head count.
Ms. Brock — And she might also be able to tell you whether it makes sense to come to
part of it, if you tell her how long you can be there. She might give you an idea of the
kinds of things they will cover while you are there, so you can make a decision.
Mr. Kanter — I think the morning session is completely separate from the afternoon
session, two different subjects, and you might be more interested in one than the other
but I couldn't tell you which is which or...
Board Member Hoffmann — Well I have no choice. I have to go to just the one I can go
to, so. Alright, I just thought, if you had some insight into this, it would be useful to
know.
Chairperson Wilcox — Any agenda items from this side of the table? I'm done.
Meeting adjourned upon motion by Rod Howe at 9:36p.m.
Respe
Paulette
submitted,
eilsen, Deputy Town Clerk
Attactmlent #1
Statement to Planning Board Re: Subdivision request 340 West King Road
November 27, 2007
I am Claire Forest. For the last quarter century I have owned and operated a family fruit
and vegetable farm at 330 West King, next to the proposed subdivision at 340 West King
Road. I am also immediate past chair of the Town's agriculture Committee, which helped
develop the zoning regulations governing the proposed subdivision. The SEQR
declaration on this proposed subdivision is not complete. Planning Staff treated this as a
Conservation Zone, whereas it should have been treated as the particular force of
conservation zone know as an Agricultural zone. Since there are only seven farms left in
the Town, maintaining one -third of the Town's green space for free, this oversight is
understandable, but I respectfully submit the following corrections in the SEQR Review
and the proposed resolution. Town Policy says that Agriculture should be protected and
promoted because open space benefits all Town residents. It also recommends that all
subdivisions affecting farms be sent to the Town Agriculture Committee for comment.
I request that the SEQR Review be amended to note the following.
1, There is an active farm next door to the proposed subdivision. This farm is
protected by the Town's Right to Farm Laws, and by NYS Ag District law.
2. There is farm pond near the proposed subdivision.
3. The proposed subdivision contains a prime agricultural soil- Howard
Gravelly Loam.
If given this information the Planning Board still considers approving this
subdivision, I respectfully request that the following restrictions be placed in the
new 15 acre deed as a condition to granting approval:
Attachment #1
1. No further subdivision will be allowed on this property unless a current or
future owner of the Derrick property wants to someday join all or part of the
subdivided parcel to the adjacent farm, which will not require further Town
approval.
2. A conservation easement be placed on the mature hedgerow of trees toward
the north border of the new parcel. This will preserve the rural character of
the neighborhood, and the farm's fence.
3. Any driveway to the potential new house be located to the south of this
hedgerow of mature trees, and as far south as possible within the subdivided
property, so as not to bring noise and dust into the neighboring farm.
Perhaps a good location for a potential new house site is where an illegally sited trailer
sits on the Herrick property, left there, to Estelle Herrick's dismay, by previous owners.
This is visible on the Planning map as a white rectangle. This would place the potential
new house relatively near existing houses to the south, while still offering substantial
privacy. There is already a right of way near this site, obtained from Mr. Priori a decade
ago by Daniel Tourance to get electricity to his home on Sand Bank Road. Tourance
suggested that this small parcel, too small for a house site according to Town zooming
law, might be purchasable by the Herricks as part of a driveway to an eventual house site.
Now is the time, before the existing Herrick house is sold, for such consideration.
My dear neighbor Estelle Herrick, who moved to West King Road relatively recently
from Westchester, passed on June 2, she left her house and land to her three children:
Peter Miller, a developer from Texas
2
• Lori Miller, a NYC business owner and apartment dweller, estate
executrix and subdivision applicant
• Heather Herrick, who lives in Ithaca with her husband and children, and
shares the substantial family business with her older sister. Heather wants
to keep the land next to my farm so she and her husband can someday
build a house.
I am on cordial terms with each of them, and friends with Heather. If Heather's children
want to join my children in a small pumpkin enterprise on my farm, they are welcome.
When I bought my farm a quarter century ago from a descendent of the original farmer
John Scott, I was shown the hedge row of mature trees dividing my place and what is
now the Herrick place, as the boundary, my husband proceeded to build a farm fence
there, which is the south boundary of one of our orchards. The Scott niece who sold me
the farm told me this hedgerow was planted decades ago jointly by brother and sister
Jabez Scott, who inherited the 55 acres I now own, and his sister Florence Scott Van
Buren, who inherited 17 acres, so there would always be harmony between them about
the border. This is a traditional farm practice.
In August his year Peter Miller, after checking with the original surveyor TG Miller,
agreed with me that this is the boundary. But last month he produced a new survey which
places the boundary several feet to the north, onto our orchard and berry field, which 1
have been farming for a quarter century under the understanding that it is mine. This
contains our farm fence, which Peter Miller assured me could stay, and is also prime
3
agricultural soil. My husband and I planned to help our sons launch a small pumpkin
operation on the field to get them started farming. We were planning to cover crop the
field this fall in preparation for this, and also moving forward on plans for a farm retreat
on our south rear field ---•a farm enterprise allowed by Town zoning. But the uncertainty
raised by a potential subdivision next door slowed us down on both intended family farm
initiatives. This is what the American Farm Land Trust calls the "uncertainty factor ",
which undermines a farming. When development threatens, farmers stop investing in
cover cropping and replanting their fields, repairing fences, building new barns.
Good planning, like good fences, makes good neighbors. It also preserves the Town's
ability to grow food locally, and preserves rural character and open space. When I began
fanning here East King Road was an active farm; now it is a sprawling suburb. One short
year ago, when you were considering the Country Inn and Suites development a mule up
the road, I warned that was the beginning of domino demise of farming on King Road,
which contains the bulk of the Town's farmland. You nearly drove my farm under by that
decision, but by the grace of God we are still here, farming. Do you want West King
Road to looks like East King Road? Please make a wise decision tonight.
Respectfully yours,
Claire Forest
Buttermilk Farm
330 West King Road
Ithaca NY
277-4564
Cc: Debbie Teeter, Chair, Town Agriculture Committee
Heather. Herrick
TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD
215 North Tioga Street
Ithaca, New York 14850
Tuesday. November 27. 2007
AGENDA
7:00 P.M. Persons to be heard (no more than five minutes).
7:05 P.M. Presentation and discussion regarding the Cornell University Master Plan. Mina Amundsen and Steve Golding,
Presenters.
7:35 P.M. SEQR Determination: Harrick 2 -Lot Subdivision, 340 King Road W.
7:35 P.M. PUBLIC HEARING: Consideration of Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval for the proposed 2 -lot
subdivision located at 340 King Road West, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 35 -2 -4, Agricultural Zone. The
proposal involves subdividing the +/- 15.70 acre property into two lots, a +/- 2.0 acre parcel (Parcel A) which
contains the existing house and a +/- 13.7 acre vacant parcel (Parcel B). Estate of Estelle Harrick. Owner; Laurie R.
Miller, Applicant.
7:45 P.M. SEQR Determination: Southwoods 4 -Lot Subdivision, King Road E. and Southwoods Dr.
7:45 P.M. PUBLIC FEARING: Consideration of Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval for the proposed 4 -lot
subdivision located off King Road East and Southwoods Drive, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No.'s 46-1-15.401, 46-1 -
15.402, and 46 -1- 15.41, Low Density Residential Zone. The proposal involves subdividing off the northeastern
ends of lots 40 ( +/- 0.12 acres) and 41 ( +/- 0.06 acres), which will then be consolidated with Tax Parcel No. 46 -1-
15.401. The new parcel ( +/- 1.13 acres total) will contain the new sewer lift station and the stormwater detention
pond and will be transferred to the Town of Ithaca. Southwoods Associates, LLC., Heritage Park Townhouses, Inc.,
and George C. & Billie J. Awad, Owners /Applicants; Joseph W. Allen, Agent.
3:00 P.M. SEQR Determination: Greenspun, Gizewski & Greenspun 2 -Lot Subdivision, 441 Bostwick Rd.
8:00 P.M. PUBLIC HEARING: Consideration of Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval for the proposed 2 -lot
subdivision located just east of 433 and 439 Bostwick Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 32 -2 -3.22, Agricultural
Zone. The proposal involves subdividing the +/- 59.5 acre property into two lots, with Parcel A being +/- 19.8 acres
and Parcel B being +/- 39.7 acres. Tom Greenspun, Barbara Gizewski & Nathaniel Greenspun, Owners /Applicants.
8:15 P.M. PUBLIC HEARING: Consideration of Final Site Plan Approval for the proposed Skilled Nursing / Adult Care
Addition at Longview, an lthacare Community, located at 1 Bella Vista Drive, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 39 -1-
1 .31, Planned Development Zone No. 7. The proposal involves the construction of a +/- 24,700 square foot addition
on the north side of the existing building with +/- 32 living units. The proposal will also include approximately l l
new parking spaces (and an area reserved for future parking if needed), a new driveway, new walkways, and
additional stormwater facilities. lthacare Center Service Company, Inc., Owner /Applicant; Mark A. Macera,
Executive Director, Agent.
10. Persons to be heard (continued from beginning of meeting if necessary).
IL _ Approval of Minutes: October 16, 2007 and November 6, 2007.
12. Other Business:
13. Adjournment.
Jonathan Kanter, AICP
Director of Planning
273 -1747
NOTE: IF ANY MEMBER OF THE PLANNING BOARD IS UNABLE TO ATTEND, PLEASE NOTIFY
SAND)' POLCE AT 273 -1747.
(A quorum of four 44) members is necessary to conduct Planning Board business.)
TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD
NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING
Tuesday, November 27, 2007
By direction of the Chairperson of the Planning Board, NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that Public Hearings
will be held by the Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca on Tuesday, November 27, 2007, at 215 North Tioga
Street, Ithaca, N.Y., at the following times and on the following matters:
7:35 P.M. Consideration of Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval for the proposed 2 -lot
subdivision located at 340 King Road West, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 35 -2-4,
Agricultural Zone. The proposal involves subdividing the +/- 15.70 acre property into two
lots, a +/- 2.0 acre parcel (Parcel A) which contains the existing house and a +/- 13.7 acre
vacant parcel (Parcel B). Estate of Estelle Harrick, Owner; Laurie R. Miller, Applicant.
7:45 P.M. Consideration of Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval for the proposed 4 -lot
subdivision located off King Road East and Southwoods Drive, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel
No.'s 46- 1- 15.401, 46- 1- 15.402, and 46 -1- 15.41, Low Density Residential Zone. The
proposal involves subdividing off the northeastern ends of lots 40 ( +/- 0.12 acres) and 41
( +/- 0.06 acres), which will then be consolidated with Tax Parcel No. 46 -1- 15.401. The
new parcel ( +/- 1.13 acres total) will contain the new sewer lift station and the stormwater
detention pond and will be transferred to the Town of Ithaca. Southwoods Associates,
LLC., Heritage Park Townhouses, Inc., and George C. & Billie J. Awad,
Owners /Applicants; Joseph W. Allen, Agent,
8:00 P.M. Consideration of Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval for the proposed 2 -lot
subdivision located just east of 433 and 439 Bostwick Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel
No. 32 -2 -3.22, Agricultural Zone. The proposal involves subdividing the +/- 59.5 acre
property into two lots, with Parcel A being +/- 19.8 acres and Parcel B being +/- 39.7 acres.
Tom Greenspun, Barbara Gizewski & Nathaniel Greenspun, Owners /Applicants.
8:15 P.M. Consideration of Final Site Plan Approval for the proposed Skilled Nursing / Adult Care
Addition at Longview, an Ithacare Community, located at 1- Bella Vista Drive, Town of
Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 39 -1 -1.31, Planned Development Zone No. 7. The proposal
involves the construction of a +/- 24,700 square foot addition on the north side of the
existing building with +/- 32 living units. The proposal will also include approximately i 1
new parking spaces (and an area reserved for future parking if needed), a new driveway,
new walkways, and additional stormwater facilities. Ithacare Center Service Company,
Inc., Owner /Applicant; Mark A. Macera, Executive Director, Agent.
Said Planning Board will at said time and said place hear all persons in support of such matter or objections
thereto. Persons may appear by agent or in person. Individuals with visual impairments, hearing impairments
or other special needs, will be provided with assistance as necessary, upon request. Persons desiring assistance
must make such a request not less than 48 hours prior to the time of the public hearing.
Jonathan Kanter, AICP
Director of Planning
273 -1747
Dated: Monday, November 19, 2007
Publish: Wednesday, November 21, 2007
Wednesday, N&erfiW 21 2007 FHE I IiACA °JOURNAL£;
{
S
Town of Ithaca
Planning Board
215 North Tioga Street
November 27, 2007
7:00 p.m.
PLEASE SIGN -IN
Please Print Clearly, Thank You
Name
Kugjck
Cj�-► -c F�-°.i i
Address
20:f7> �>-Q rA
901 G�J,)4,4 07s 12a
TOWN OF ITHACA
AFFIDAVIT OF POSTING AND PUBLICATION
I, Sandra Polce, being duly sworn, depose and say that I am a Senior Typist for the Town of
Ithaca, Tompkins County, New York; that the following Notice has been duly posted on the sign
board of the Town of Ithaca and that said Notice has been duly published in the local newspaper,
The Ithaca Journal.
Notice of Public Hearings to be held by the Town of Ithaca Planning Board in the Town of Ithaca
Town Hall 215 North Tioga Street Ithaca New York on Tuesday, November 27, 2007
commencing at 7:00 P.M., as per attached.
Location of Sign Board used for Posting: Town Clerk Sign Board — 215 North Tioga Street.
Date of Posting:
Date of Publication
November 19, 2007
November 21, 2007
60A. � C?.-�
Sandra Polce, Senior Typist
Town of Ithaca
STATE OF NEW YORK) SS:
COUNTY OF TOMPKINS)
Sworn to and subscribed before me this 21" day of November 2007.
C4-N'vV'L4 . C
Notary Public
CONNIE F. CLARK
Notary Public, State of New York
No. 01CL6052878
Qualified in Tompkins County
Commission Expires December 26, 20