HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB Minutes 2007-02-20FILE (/
DATE .5. -7 -u-7
REGULAR MEETING
TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD
TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 20, 2007
215 NORTH TIOGA STREET, ITHACA NY 14850
7:00 p.m.
PRESENT
Chairperson Fred Wilcox; Board Members: George Conneman, Eva Hoffmann,
Kevin Talty and Larry Thayer Excused: Rod Howe
STAFF: Jonathan Kanter, Director of Planning; Daniel Walker, Director of
Engineering; Susan .Ritter, Assistant Director of Planning; Christine Balestra,
Planner; Esther Blodau- Konick, Planner; Lorraine Moynihan Schmitt, Attorney for the
Town; Paulette Neilsen, Deputy Town Clerk.
OTHERS PRESENT
Stephen and Marian Rogers, Coddington Road; William Epthimiatos, Coddington
Road; Orlando Turco, Warren Real Estate; Evan Monkmeyer, East King Road; John
Bartelotti, Del Pass Architects, 101 North Clinton Street, Syracuse; Cory Green,: SAF
Associates, Rochester; Scott Freeman, Kepplinger, Freeman Associates, 6320 Fly
Road, East Syracuse; Rudy Zona, RZ Engineering, 6320 Fly Road, East Syracuse;
Ed Wilson and Tim Peer, Cornell University, Humphries Building; Shirley .Egan,
Cornell University Counsel's Office, 300 CCC Building, Cornell; Tessa Flores,
Compton Road; Kris Hodges, 16 Saunders Road; Jim Kerrigan, West Seneca Street
CALL TO ORDER
Chairperson Wilcox declares the meeting duly opened at 7:02 p.m., and accepts for
the record Secretary's Affidavit of Posting and Publication of the Notice of Public
Hearings in Town Hall and the Ithaca Journal on February 12, 2007 and February
14, 2007 together with the properties under discussion, as appropriate, upon the
Clerks of the City of Ithaca and the Town .of Danby, upon the Tompkins County
Commissioner of Planning, upon the Tompkins County Commissioner of Public
Works, and upon the applicants and /or agents, as appropriate, on February 12,
2007,
Chairperson Wilcox states the Fire Exit Regulations to those assembled, as required
by the New York State Department of State, Office of Fire Prevention and Control.
Chairperson Wilcox — We'd like to welcome Lorraine Moynihan Schmitt who is acting
as Town Attorney tonight. The other thing I would like to mention before we get
going tonight is that it was mentioned that the agenda for this evening's meeting was
not available on the website, the public hearing notice was there and I have no
information that the public hearing wasn't properly posted, so we are all set there but
the actual meeting agenda was not, so we will look into that and make sure we can
do our best to have our agenda posted on the. website because people actually do
go there and look for it.
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 2
Chairperson Wilcox announces the next agenda item at 7:03 p.m.
PERSONS TO BE HEARD
Steve Rogers, Coddington Road
I realize that the subject of the Emerson Hall fill site is not on the agenda for this
evening but I have a couple of remarks and I will keep them brief.
To start,
The reside
College. I
that when
Emerson
signatures
would like to give
:nts who signed
should note that c.
they return, they
Hall fill site and
at a later date.
the Board a petition from Coddington Road residents.
the petition own property that is adjacent to Ithaca
several homeowners are away this month, but I am sure
will join us in opposing Ithaca College's plans for the
perimeter road, so we expect to submit additional
I'd also like to make a brief statement regarding the February 12th visit to the
Emerson Hall site. My wife and I attended the site visit along with members of the
Town Planning and Conservation Boards and representatives of the Ithaca College.
We'd like to respond briefly, in a formal way to some observations made at the site
visit.
First, the site visit does not change our position. We firmly oppose the continued
use by Emerson Hall for construction fill.
Second, some members of the Board suggested that, suggested on site, that Ithaca
College might plant trees and provide other landscaping as a screen between our
home and the hillside. We believe that that is the least that the College could do
right now to mitigate the damage it has done so far. Landscaping and planting is in
order as of today. We want to be clear, however, we do not accept landscaping as
some kind of tradeoff for Ithaca College's continued use of the site. The dumping of
fill in this location, the extension of the hillside and the construction of car and
storage trailer parking lots should never have happened in the first place.
If Ithaca College is permitted to carry out its wishes to dump another 25,000 cubic
yards of fill on this site, the mound behind us will extend even closer and loom even
more over our property. No amount of landscaping or cosmetic screening will
conceal that result. And that says nothing about the 5 or 6 years of noise and dirt
from another 50,000 dump truck runs, that's their number, and the accompanying
bulldozing and grading activity.
At the site visit, everyone marveled at the excellent view the College has given itself
of Cayuga Lake. In fact, we already have numbers of cars pulling up to the edge of
the new parking lot to take in the view of the lake and peer down into our yards and
house. Undoubtedly, the higher this mound gets and the farther north Ithaca
College extends it, the nicer their view will be and the more intrusive it will be on us.
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 3
In fact, Ithaca College has many nice views. Unfortunately, the view of Ithaca
College from below, where we live, is much less nice and will be even worse if the
Board approves the College's plans for this site.
To close, we ask that you consider our concerns seriously. We want to reiterate that
we spent a lot of money to purchase our home, we spent a lot of money to improve it
and we pay considerable taxes on our property and we have the right to enjoy our
property in piece and quiet. Thanks (Copies given to the Board)
William Epthimiatos, 134 Coddington Road
I filed a complaint with the Town on September 13 th about this matter of the fill that
has been going on for years up there. And in doing some more investigating,
they've,,, Ithaca College has built that right through the City and Town line where the
trailers are parked right now...And this has been an ongoing problem with drainage
that we've been getting a lot of runoff water over the last ... well, I've lived there 7
years now and it's just increased and this is one of the issues that we'd like the
Town to look at since none of this was done with permits originally and I've talked to
the Town of Ithaca Building Department and we started out with there was no permit
then somehow they added a permit or they added it onto a permit of some sort for a
temporary fill site. But no where was there ever any consideration done for the
drainage issue up there and I'd just like to make mention of that and make sure that
you guys could help us out up there.
Chairperson Wilcox — I can't promised we can help you out but I can guarantee that
we will give it a fair hearing.
Mr. Epthimiatos — Alrighty, well, you know, they started this without permits and I am
curious to see who's inspected this stuff and has that fill been going in properly so
that there can be parking up there. And these are our concerns.
Chairperson Wilcox announces the next agenda item at 7:49 p.m.
SEAR
Campbell 1 Stratakos 2 -Lot Subdivision, 362 & 364 King Road West.
Orlando Turko, Warren Real Estate, 397 Eastwood Avenue
I am representing Karen Campbell who is in desire of selling her home and because
of the early building of the parcel of land, it has come up to our attention that, at this
time, if the septic system were to fail, the house would be in difficulties. So what
we're asking is that we could purchase a piece of land from the neighbors that would
give us the right to put in a septic system if it failed. And with this in mind, my client
should be able to sell her home and move on.
Are there any questions?
Chairperson Wilcox — Questions with regard to the environmental review?
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20107 Page 4
Is there anybody in the audience from the neighborhood that has not sent he
subdivision being proposed? Who might want to see and understand better what is
being requested? No ... okay,
ADOPTED RESOLUTION: PB Resolution No. 2007 = 019.
SEAR
Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval
Campbell 2 -Lot Subdivision
362 and 364 King Road West
Tax Parcel Nos. 35. -2 -7 and 35. -2 -6.1
Town of Ithaca Planning Board
February 20, 2007
MOTION made by Larry Thayer, seconded by Kevin Talty.
WHEREAS:
1. This is consideration of Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval for the
proposed 2�lot subdivision (lot line modification) located at 362 and 364 King
Road West, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel Nos. 35. -2 -7 and 35.- 2 -6.1, Low
Density Residential Zone. - The proposal involves subdividing'a 0.108 +1- acre
parcel of land from the southern portion of 362 King Road W., which will then
be consolidated with 364 King Road W. Karen Campbell, and Peter and
Christine Stratakos, Owners; Orland Turco, Agent and
2. This is an Unlisted Action for which the Town of Ithaca Planning Board is
acting as Lead Agency in this uncoordinated environmental review with
respect to Subdivision Approval, and
3. The Planning Board on February 20, 2007, has reviewed and accepted as
adequate a Short Environmental Assessment Form Part I, submitted by the
applicant, and Part II prepared by the Town Planning staff, a survey map
entitled "Subdivision Map - No. 364 West King Road," prepared by Raymond
H. Brashear; P.L.S., dated May 16, 2005 and amended Feb. 7, 2007, and
other application materials, and
45 The Town planning staff has recommended a negative determination of
environmental significance with respect to the proposed Subdivision
Approval;
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED:
That the Town of Ithaca Planning Board hereby makes a negative determination of
environmental significance for the reasons set forth in the Environmental
Assessment Form Part 11 referenced above, in accordance with the New York State
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 5
Environmental Quality Review Act for the above referenced action as proposed, and,
therefore, an Environmental Impact Statement will not be required.
A vote on the motion was as follows:
AYES: Wilcox, Hoffmann, Thayer, Conneman and Talty.
NAYS: None.
The motion was carried unanimously.
Chairperson Wilcox announces the next agenda item at 7:10 p.m.
PUBLIC HEARING
Consideration of Preliminary and Final Subdivision approval for the proposed
2-lot subdivision (lot line modification) located at 362 and 364 King Road West,
Town of Ithaca Tax parcel No.'s 35 -2 -6.1 and 35 -2 -7, Low Density Residential
Zone. The proposal involves subdividing a +/- 0.108 acre triangular parcel of
land from the southern edge of 362 King Road West, which will then be
consolidated with 364 King Road West. Peter & Christine Stratakos and Karen
A. Campbell, Owners /Applicants; Orlando Turco, Agent.
Chairperson Wilcox -- Any questions?
Board Member Hoffmann — No, it seems like a positive thing to do, under the
circumstances.
Chairperson Wilcox invites the public to address the Board. There being no one, the
public hearing is closed at 7:12 p.m.
Chairperson Wilcox — Any changes Lorraine?
Ms. Schmitt — No changes. I did speak with Susan Brock today and I do believe the
Planning Department may have had some concern about a nonconforming use
issue. The provision under the zoning code is clear as far as Susan and I would
interpret it that as long as the nonconforming use is not increased, the ZBA review
and the requisite for a use variance would not be triggered. Here the project actually
helps and one of the side yard sis more in compliance, so we don't see any problem.
ADOPTED RESOLUTION: PB Resolution No. 2007 - 020
Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval
Campbell 2 -Lot Subdivision
(Lot Line modification)
362 and 364 King Road W.
Tax Parcel Nos. 35. -2 -7 & 35. -2 -691
Town of Ithaca Planning Board
February 20, 2007
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 6
MOTION made by Kevin Talty, seconded by George Conneman,
WHEREAS:
1. This is consideration of Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval for the
proposed 2 -lot subdivision (lot line modification) located at 362 and 364 King
Road West„ Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel Nos. 35. -2 -7 and 35.- 2 -6.1, Low
Density Residential Zone. The proposal involves subdividing a 0.108 +/- acre
parcel of land from the southern portion of 362 King Road W., which will then
be consolidated with 364 King Road W. Karen Campbell, and Peter and
Christine Stratakos, Owners; Orland Turco, Agent and
2. This is an Unlisted Action for which the Town of Ithaca Planning Board, acting
as lead agency in environmental review with respect to Subdivision Approval,
has on February 20, 2007, made a negative determination of environmental
significance, after having reviewed and accepted as adequate a Short
Environmental Assessment Form Part I, submitted by the applicant, and Part
II prepared by the Town Planning staff, and
3. The Planning Board on February 20, 2007, has reviewed and accepted as
adequate a Short Environmental Assessment Form Part I, submitted by the
applicant, and Part II prepared by the Town. Planning staff, a survey map
entitled "Subdivision Map — No. 364 West King Road," prepared by Raymond
H. Brashear, P.L.S., dated May 16, 2005 and amended Feb. 7, 2007, and
other application materials, and
4. Both Tax Parcel Nos. 35. -2 -7 and 35. -2 -6.1 contain lawful, but non-
conforming structures, and that the proposed subdivision will not further
increase the existing non - conformity, and
5. The creation of the subdivision will not change the property owners rights or
obligations under Section 270 -205 regarding non - conforming structures.
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED:
1. That the Town of Ithaca Planning Board hereby waives certain requirements
for Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval, as shown on the Preliminary
and Final Subdivision Checklists, having determined from the materials
presented that such waiver will result in neither a significant alteration of the
purpose. of subdivision control nor the policies enunciated or implied by the
Town Board, and
2. That the Planning Board hereby grants Preliminary and Final Subdivision
Approval for the proposed 2 -lot subdivision located at 362 and 364 King Road
W., Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No.'s 35. -2 -7 and 35- 2 -6.1, as shown on the
survey map entitled "Subdivision Map — No. 364 West King Road, " prepared
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2120107 Page 7
by Raymond H. Brashear, P.L.S., dated May 16, 2005 and amended Feb. 7,
2007, subject to the following conditions:
a. submission for signing by the Chairman of the Planning Board of an
original or mylar copy of the final subdivision plat, and three dark -lined
prints, prior to filing with the Tompkins County Clerk's Office, and
b. submission of a copy of the receipt of filing the plat, to the Town of
Ithaca Planning Department, and
C, within six months of this approval, consolidation of the 0.108 +/- acre
parcel with Tax Parcel No. 35 -2 -7, and evidence of such consolidation
to be submitted to the Town of Ithaca Planning Department.
A vote on the motion was as follows:
AYES: Wilcox, Hoffmann, Thayer, Conneman and Talty.
NAYS: None.
The motion was carried unanimously.
Chairperson Wilcox announces the next agenda item at 7:95 p.m.
UPDATE and INFORMAL REVIEW
Regarding the proposed College Crossings Development located on the
northeast corner of Danby Road (NYS Route 9613) and East King Road
intersection, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 43- 1 -3.2, Neighborhood
Commercial and Low Density Residential Zones. The proposal is fora +/-
22,000 gross square foot building to accommodate up to eleven tenants for
new retail, commercial, and office space. The project will also include 105 +/n
parking spaces, landscaping, lighting, stormwater facilities, sidewalks, and a
new walkway connection to the College Circle Apartments. Evan N.
Monkemeyer, Owner /Applicant, Scott L. Freeman, Keplinger Freeman
Associates and James M. Kerrigan, Attorney, Agents,
Evan Monkemeyer, East King Road
About a year ago, I came to you with this proposal and we provided you with a
sketch plan and since that time we've reviewed a lot of the information that we have
put together in the last year to present this proposal to you. It's been thought out
very well, I think if you look at the plan and take some time to review it, it really does
work. I won't point to too much more right now but I'd like to introduce John
Bartelotti from Del Pass Architects, Syracuse New York, he is the person in charge
of the project from an architectural standpoint and John, why don't you give us an
overview.
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 8
John Bartelotti, Del Pass Architects, 101 North Clinton Street, Syracuse, NY
As Evan said, the project has progressed and over the last year or so we've got into
a little more detail and little more planning and .addressed a lot of the site constraints
and site planning.
The orientation of the building still remains as it was. We have two points of access
to the site, one off of East Kind Road and one off of Route 96B at the most remote
points of the corner or the intersection. I am not going to spend a lot of time here
going through this again because I think you guy are familiar with that ... I am here
really to answer some of your questions that may come up from the architectural end
of it. We have our engineers here tonight and our landscape architect to address
most of the planning. and site planning issues. If you have any architectural
questions I'd be happy to answer them for you, other wise I would like to bring them
up and walk you through some of that.
Chairperson Wilcox — Much of this is for the benefit of the public who is here this
evening. Just a brief over view of what this building could accommodate.
Mr. Bartelotti — It's approximately a 23,000 square foot building, round numbers. We
have about 19,000 square feet on the first floor and the remaining 4,000 on the
second -floor. It is a mixed -use facility intended for retail, office and some
restaurants. Right now we have a tentative lease plan that indicates square
footages and helped us derive some of the parking counts that we will walk through
with you tonight. Those are not final lease plans, but they are evolving as the
leasing progress goes on.
The building itself is a timber -frame style building. It is situated so that it really has
no backdoor sort to speak. There's three sided fagade really because we're trying to
respond to circulation around the site so that we can get access from all points.
From the back, from the front, from the side and the parking response as well. It
allowed us to open up a lot of the parking arrangements and configurations so it's
not a sea of parking in front of a mass. We're. trying to be responsive to how it parks
and how it relates to where it will go in the building. It also allows us to provide quite
a bit of outside plazas and landscaping and actually make it quite nice for the users.
Chairperson Wilcox —The current configuration would indicate that a bank is one of
the proposed tenants?
Mr. Bartelotti — Yup and the bank right now is located right here, at the remote end of
the building. The access to that is a drive through teller. You would come across
the back this way and straight out this way. Plenty of stacking space back here so it
wouldn't interfere with the other parking.
Board Member Thayer — Which building would the restaurant be?
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 9
Mr. Bartelotti — Right now, again, that is kind of not pinned down, but right now, the
two center portions of this on the first floor is what we are looking at, as restaurants.
It may change.
Board Member Thayer — And'if you park in the back, can you walk through?
Mr. Bartelotti — There's access yes through the building. We have entrances to each
one of these and we have the ability to define the space so you can go through and
that would be responsive to the lease plan itself as it evolves.
Board Member Hoffmann — I have some questions about the planning plan. I am
probably going to jump back and forth a little bit here, but, I noticed that some of the
evergreen trees that are along Danby Road and King Road right now ... some of them
will be kept, but most of .them it says, according to the legend, transplant evergreen
trees,. .Are you really proposing to transplant such big trees?
Mr. Bartelotti — I will let my landscape architect respond to that. Scott Freeman.
Scott Freeman, Kepplinger, Freeman Assoc., 6320 Fly Road, East Syracuse
To answer your question on the trees, every project is different, every project has a
challenge, Evan planted those trees a long time ago to get the site to work. The
reason we're saving some, we're not cutting in areas, in other areas we are unable
to keep them in their current location but we are working with a landscaper who has
a large tree - spade, and according to this landscaper, a one -foot trunk width or
smaller, he can move them. Your trees apparently look, they're right around a 12"
caliper. We're going to see what we can do, no guarantees. He's going to take a
look when the snow melts. If we can reuse something we will.
Board Member Hoffmann — And I also didn't see them on the planting plan, L4. That
could be because the print is very small and I just didn't see them but it looked like
there were going to be other kinds of evergreens, Austrian Pines, and are these
Norway Pines?
Mr. Freeman — They are Norway Spruce and we took that off the list and what we
are going to have, Rudy is going to help me out here, we responded to Jon's and the
Board's letter here, and we made some amendments to the plan. We substituted an
Austrian Pine for the Norway Spruce,
Chairperson Wilcox — For the benefit of the people here, the Norway Spruce has
been identified as an invasive species and therefore, in the memo from Jon Kanter
to us, it was recommended that they be substituted.
Mr. Freeman — While we are talking about landscaping, I have 6 items on my
response to Jon Kanter. So I would like to just finish with landscaping so we are not
jumping around too much.
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 10
I guess, just to let you know, from a landscape architects point of view, we're in the
planning point of view stage of the project and once we get through this, we get our
final tenant layout, we'll have more detailed drawings. This isn't our final plan. Evan
pointed out to me that there are a lot of deer up there, we have to come up with a
deer resistant plant list. What I put on there right now is probably a menu, they
probably like half the things on there. So we are going to work on that and I've had
a conversation with Jon Kanter as well and he agreed and recommended that we
come in and fine tune the landscape plan which we will. But we'd like to get through
the first round or two of the planning process, if we're on the right track, we'll
enhance the plan and we'll address the deer resistance and what's getting
transplanted .and we'll keep you posted as to whether that can even happen or not.
While we're on that, I guess there's another ... on the response letter, item 6, 1 threw
a lot of paper at you but item number 6, there was a request for some buffering
Chairperson Wilcox — We're all set. Go ahead.
Mr. Freeman — Okay. Up King Road, you have the adjacent school and a comment
was made to screen the school from the site and I guess we would like to defer that
discussion, ah, to have that happen at a later date until we can get through the rest
of the project elements.
Chairperson Wilcox — Before you go on, we would like to screen the .building from
the school, wouldn't we? Yes. Okay, good. All right. Move on.
Board Member Hoffmann — So that you know we are interested in it so that you are
prepared...
Chairperson Wilcox — So you understand that the board would like the screening to
occur. You don't have to address it tonight because it is sketch plan.
Mr. Freeman — Okay. Then I would like to have that discussion with Jonathan at a
non -board meeting because there are different ways of screening and I would like to
do that in that setting and design the plan holistically, not just throw items at the
plan.
Chairperson Wilcox — That's fine. You are not going to solve every problem here
tonight at sketch plan.
Mr. Freeman — Right. So that is where we were there. I guess we flip the plan here
with Del Pas's original concept. What we have done is we've simplified the access
with one ... based on the grade change you are up on a hill here so we have one
access point to the parking lot. We have had recent conversations with DOT on the
access point off the State road. They have recommended one access road in, an
access lane in and out. So DOT liked the location so that's ... when we get into
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2120107 Page 11
construction we will have to apply for permits so we are comfortable with that. I
guess I am going to jump around a little bit while I talk about circulation.
Board Member Hoffmann — Can I comment on that because I was a little bit
confused? The drawings show on the King Road entrance way one lane going in,
but two lanes going out, but in the text it says one in and one out. So which one is
it?
Mr. Freeman — We are going to talk to the County. We would prefer to have that.
We think that is a safer way to go. It keeps people from stacking onto the site. We
are going to work that out. We would prefer to do this. We would prefer to have it at
both entrances.
Board Member Hoffmann — I can't see from here. Can you say it in words?
Mr. Freeman — Okay, the King Road, we would prefer to have two out and one in,
but we didn't verify that with the County. The first hurdle is to get it cleared with the
State and they told us we have to have one in and one out. So that is what we are
going to go with.
I guess I'll go to item two on our response list here, traffic parking and access.
There was a request to make both driveways stop sign controlled. That is an easy
item to address. We will do that. For the drive- through, we are aware that a special
permit is necessary to have a drive- through for the bank. So Evan will fill out the
necessary paperwork for that. The parking count, I may have to drag John back up
here. As John stated earlier, the final arrangement of tenants in the building has not
been set so everything is based on higher square footage for restaurant so I spoke.
with John yesterday and what we decided to do was with a 20 % reduction granted
from the board, we put a high square footage of restaurant and in the updated plans
that I passed out to you, the layout plan, we bump that parking count up to 120. So
in the event of a layout where we have a lot of restaurant, we will be able to
accommodate it, but its too early. We would like to defer that to a little bit down the
road when Evan has had the chance to get his final tenant layout. So that's really all
I would like to say on parking count for now.
Chairperson Wilcox — I won't speak as to what the board may or may not do for this
particular application, but we have a history of granting a 20% reduction in the
requirement of parking spaces assuming that you can provide reasonable evidence
that you don't need the number of parking spaces that the zoning calls for. We don't
like asphalt any more than developers like the cost of putting in asphalt. So if you
could show that you don't need the number of spaces that are required, we can
grant up to a 20% reduction. Sometimes, though, we may require that the site plan
show where those spaces could be located should it become necessary in the
future.
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 12
Mr. Freeman — And that is what we have done in red tonight, but we don't want to
finalize it until later.
Chairperson Wilcox — Again, I'm not committing us to what we will do in the future,
but we have done it in the past with other applications.
Mr. Freeman — Okay.
Board Member Hoffmann — If I can go back while you are still there, go back to the
planting plan, which I started asking you about. It looks to me like a lot of the trees
along the periphery of this piece of land, except on the northern border are red
maples, which are fine. They are native trees, but it seems to me there are too
many of them. I would like to see a greater variety of trees for various reasons. One
of them is because it looks more interesting. Another one is. if a disease comes
along and begins to affect a species of tree you lose all of them. So I would like to
see next time..:) would like you to consider a greater variety of trees and preferably
native trees.
Mr. Freeman = I agree. That is a great comment and until we get the site plan a little
more dialed in and we have our conversation and understanding with what is a
screen and what's not a screen, we will take your comments into account.
Chairperson Wilcox — You have the floor. You can do what you want.
Mr. Bartelotti — Okay. I just want to respond to the parking counts. Yes, we were
anticipating to apply for a 20% reduction and some of the basis we can think
forward, but we do have a mixed use facility here, which does have staggered use
times. We would have businesses that would be closed when retail is open so there
is some basis to entertain that we would have a reduced amount of parking. So we
want to go on record that we would like to apply for that.
Chairperson Wilcox — You'll have to make your case.
Mr. Freeman — Okay. I had three more items on traffic, parking and access. Item
2...1 don't know if you can see this from where you are sitting, but Evan is committed
to providing a pedestrian connector from the proposed project to the college. Part of
it is on the parcel and part of it goes across his future undeveloped parcel. So that is
something that we think, coming back to the parking count, we are going to have
some pedestrian users so that could be a factor that we lower the parking count.
That is one item. So we will submit the draft agreement with the college and the
final site plan details prior to final site plan approval. There were comments from the
board that we address those items and Evan is working on that right now. So we will
have that agreement and at the tie -in point we will have that surveyed and tie -in and
show the board the detailed location.
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 13
Chairperson Wilcox — Evan, have you had conversations or has a representative of
yours have conversations with Ithaca College?
Mr. Monkemeyer — I have spoken to Ithaca College, but Jim Kerrigan, my attorney,
has been talking to the Colberts and their attorney. And I guess...
Chairperson Wilcox — You feel comfortable that its...
Mr. Monkemeyer — Its moving forward, yes.
Chairperson Wilcox — Good. Thank you.
Mr. Freeman — And the next item ... the last ... I guess the sidewalk and the ... there
was a request to put some walks in the right -of -way on the State road and King
Road East. I guess the way we feel right now is there aren't any other sidewalks in
the area and there is culverts and drainage ways and utility lines there so we.. its
not in the project right now. Its not in our project scope right now. So I just
wanted...
Board Member Thayer — With the hotel catty- corner across the street, a big
restaurant over there, there is going to be foot traffic. So I would like to see a
sidewalk there.
Mr. Freeman — I guess I would like to defer that to, we have with us our traffic
engineer and maybe he can talk on item 4. Cory? Do you want to put a few words
on this? Impact on the surrounding community? We think we have done a solid
traffic study. I will let Cory say a few words.
Cory Green, SRF and Associates
Good evening. My name is Cory Green and I am with SRF and Associates. That's
3495 Winton Place in Rochester. Our firm prepared a traffic impact study for the
proposed development. We did manual turning movement counts, did a capacity
analysis. It is all included in the report. You will find in the capacity analysis that
there are acceptable levels of service. When I say acceptable, I mean generally
levels of service C. or better. Primarily A's and B's at the study intersections: We
also took a close look at the Montessori School that is to the east of the project as it
relates to that pedestrian crossing that they have across King Road. So we did take
a look at all of that. The fact that this development is kind of a mixed use doesn't
generate all of its traffic at one point in time. It is more spread out over the day and
we think with two points of access that this will work nicely, especially coupled with
the fact that we already have a signalized intersection at King Road and 96B. So
that is just a quick summary of the traffic study. If there are any specific questions, I
would be happy to address those.
Chairperson Wilcox — You seem to have been elected to talk about sidewalks.
We've had other applications in this area. There is a hotel being built kitty- corner,
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 14
catty- corner, depending upon where you are from. I have every expectation that
there is a lot next to the hotel that will be developed at some point. Clearly there is
this land, which is zoned commercial. We are interested in safe transportation for
people who are walking, whether it is west on East King Road, east on West King
Road or potentially along Route 96B.
Mr. Green — That is certainly something we could take a look at as far as what would
be involved with installing a pedestrian crosswalk across 96B. Obviously something
we would have to talk to the State about. It is their intersection. That is something
we could certainly take a look at.
Mr. Monkemeyer — I would like to ask you a question. The posted speed limit is 50
miles an hour. Is that a problem with putting a crosswalk across such an
intersection?
Mr. Green — Um, I mean with the appropriate pedestrian... with a marked crosswalk,
with pedestrian signals, you know the pedestrian would only be allowed to cross
when the light was red on 96B. So, yes it physically can be done to install a
pedestrian crosswalk across the intersection. But again, it is something that we
would have to take a look at. As far as the right -of -way across the intersection,
grading, drainage, thinks of that nature, you know, if we can actually get a sidewalk
across King Road and also 96B.
Chairperson Wilcox — You are correct. For the members of the general public, that
is a State highway and we can't do anything unless the State approves it. That
includes the curb cut, location and any pedestrian markings that may occur. Has
SRF done other traffic studies in this area that this board is aware of?
Mr. Green — Yes.
Chairperson Wilcox — I'm trying to think which one. We've seen SRF a number of
times. I was trying to remember...
Mr. Kanter — I think they did the Holly Creek Apartment subdivision.
Chairperson Wilcox — Which are kitty- corner across the street.
Mr. Kanter — If not that one, I believe they did the College Circle Phase II, but
probably both I think, if I recall correctly.
Mr. Green — We have done a lot of work in the City, with Cornell.
Chairperson Wilcox — We have seen the firm before. I am not sure we have seen
you before. While you are standing at the microphone, questions?
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 15
Board Member Talty — Yeah. How's the track record? What s the traffic study ... the
hypothetical and then what is the reality of it? So in other words,:what is your batting
average.
Mr. Green — As far as our traffic forecasts?
Board Member Talty —Absolutely,
Mr. Green — We have done a number of follow -up studies. When budget and
projects allow, we do, will go out and do traffic studies and the data that we have in
our report, I don't know if you are familiar with it, but it's the Institute of
Transportation Engineers. It's a worldwide organization that traffic studies, counts
are done and then that data is submitted. It is basically a huge pool nationwide of
data of information. So we usually start with that information first and if it is a special
type project, lets just say it was an automated carwash where maybe there isn't any
good national data available. We will go and find similar sites and count those to get
the local trip generation data, but we have found in a lot of the information that we
get from the ITE is that it is usually very close to the numbers that we forecast. And
usually our forecasts, our projections, we tend to stay conservative, tend to
overestimate. Certainly because we don't want to see any problems arise after the
project has been approved and is operational. For instance, one of the things we
think may happen is a lot of, hopefully, pedestrians would use this. Each pedestrian
would account for a trip, a vehicle trip, but we didn't take any deductions from our
estimates, but we do think that will play into it a little bit. I feel that our projections
are on the conservative side for this report.
Chairperson Wilcox — I am trying to remember. SRF was here working with, I can't
remember if it was the developers of Linderman Creek or was it overlook at West
Hill? Was it Overlook? [Board consensus it was Overlook.]' And they took a
beating, which stood. up. One of the objections amongst those who were against
was the traffic counts and it ... I mean to use a term I often use to help...(not
audible) ... stood up under the ... the numbers seem to be reasonable.
Board Member Conneman — 1 know it's a State highway, in your opinion, would it be
likely that the State. would require it to have a pedestrian crossing signal to get from
the hotel that's on one corner and obviously Ithaca College is a complicated place.
You don't always have a college.
Mr. Green — I think it may be difficult as far as the State goes. I know the State is
making a big push statewide to implement pedestrian and bicycle facilities where
applicable. This is ... these projects aren't being reviewed by the State at the same
time so...
Board Member Thayer — We accomplished that up to the hospital with a walk light
and it seems to work well there. I would think this is pretty similar situation.
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20107 Page 16
Mr. Green — Yeah. That is something, like I said, we would have to take a closer
look at as far as physically being able to .do it and then also. find out the State's
thought on putting that in.
Mr. Kanter — I think maybe what we'll do in the Planning department is contact the
State and follow up with that because they have reviewed those plans for both Holly
Creek and the hotel and so they should be familiar with the developments in the
area and then we can ask them what they think about the crosswalk.
Board Member Thayer —Good idea.
Board Member Conneman — Okay. Good, Jon,
Chairperson Wilcox — Thank you, Jon. Eva, are you all set?
Board Member Hoffmann — I
think
having a safe way
for people to get across the
road would be something
that
most
of us would
look at
very
favorably.
Board Member Thayer — Oh, yeah.
Board Member Hoffmann — Because this is a college town, it has a special
characteristics among them being that there are some times when lots of people are
in town and other times when very few are in town. The students .leave. So I like to
look at the dates when traffic studies are done and this one was done on
Wednesday, April 12th and Thursday, April 131h in 2006. So I went. back and looked
in my calendar and it turns out Passover started the Tuesday before...the day before
your first day of study and Good Friday was the day after the second day of your
study. So I would like to ask you to find out, if you don't know already, if Ithaca
College, Cornell and even the Montessori School were on vacation when you did
this traffic study.
Mr. Green — I know specifically that the Montessori school was not on vacation
because we did traffic counts. You know the pedestrian crossing as well as observe
their driveway and operation. I can't say for certainly about Ithaca or Cornell, but...
Chairperson Wilcox — Put it on your list.
Mr. Green - ...I believe that they were in session. Another thing that we do, a
question that I get asked.a lot is, how can you do counts on one day and say that is
a good representative sample to design from? What we do when we do the counts
on one day, this particular location... New York State ... I don't know if you ever seen
the black tubes that run across the roadway there once in a while, New York State
does those. counts and that gives us 24 hours worth of data for usually over the
course of an entire week. So we can kind of check our counts against the counts
that New York State has. Take a look at there and say okay, these are our numbers
and these are the State's numbers, you know, how close are we. If we are far off,
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 17
then we raise a red flag and we look into it further. So that is something that we do,
kind of to double check the accuracy of the traffic counts that we did, but I can
certainly find out for you if the two schools were in session.
Board Member Talty — Also, when was the last time that New York State took
those ... that data?
Board Member Hoffmann — In case they did it during vacation time, too.
Board Member Talty — It could be 18 months, 2 years, so there could be a fluctuation
of data as well.
Mr. Green — Right.
Chairperson Wilcox — Any other questions?
Board Member Hoffmann — There was something that I didn't understand, also. On
page 5 of the copy, the parts of the traffic study that we got copies of, I just don't
understand things like this very well and I don't understand how in table 2 on page 5
one can subtract traffic.
Mr. Green — Yes. There is a minus sign and it does show a subtraction. What that
is, is when we come up with the trip generation numbers; the number of vehicles we
think are going to come to this development, some of those vehicles may already be
on the roadway. Perhaps, you know, if you drive by the site on your way to and from
work everyday, now that there is a bank there you may stop there, you know, pull in
and then continue on your way, but you are already on the roadway before this
development was built. So it is actually not a new trip, not another vehicle on. the
roadway. Although we are not actually subtracting that from the number of cars that
we show turning in and out of the driveway, those subtractions that you see, we
actually route them into the site and out of the site differently than we do the other
trips because we figure, um, if perhaps you live to the south of this development and
you are specifically going to the bank, then you are turning around and heading back
the same way whereas if you are on your way to work, you are going to swing in and
then continue in the other direction. Yeah, I know that's a little confusing, but...
Board Member Hoffmann — But that's what one hopes people will do in a case like
this so they don't add traffic, but in fact that they do add things on their way when
they are on the road already. But I guess even if that is what this means, and I think
1 understand what you are saying, um, it adds some elements of difficulty to the
traffic when you have cars going in and out rather than just going straight by, doesn't
it?
Mr. Green — Yes. Certainly. I mean any introduction of a new driveway, an access
point will do that. I think that we have laid out, the site to shift the driveway as far as
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 18
we can, both driveways as matter of fact, as far away from the intersection as
possible. We don't want access points too close to the intersection because...
Board Member Hoffmann — I think that is very good. Also that you have lined up
your driveway on King Road with another smaller road, which is probably not used
very much, but its better than having it offset.
Board Member Conneman — I assume that the Planning Department has talked to
you about signs. I think our general view is that you have to have signs obviously to
identify things, but they don't have to be huge and lit in lots of case. That doesn't
mean that you can't have a lit sign, but we have some instances where developers
propose unbelievable number of signs. Now you may do that in Syracuse or
wherever, but we don't like to do that in the Town of Ithaca. I just want to warn you
on that.. I don't know who to warn, but any way and I think Mr.. Monkemeyer
understands that because he lives in the community.
Mr. Green — Right.
Chairperson Wilcox — We do have a history of wanting signage to be consistent with
the zoning. Kevin?
Board Member Talty — Traffic survey, etc., just because that is your specialty.
know what you are saying, George, with the sign. Line of sight on 96B, for example,
have you guys taken into account in your traffic survey of how this will be a new
project. People won't know which avenue to egress, but they'll figure out soon
enough which is the easiest to get in and out of your facility so in that 96B coming
south to north, have you guys deciphered once the facility is open, the easiest
course that people will normally take. So for example, if I want to go down to the
Commons area I may not like the egress out onto 96B. I might choose to come out
onto King, come around, make a right onto 96B north. Do you understand what I am
saying?
Mr. Green — Yes. Exactly.
Board Member Talty — So has that been taken into account in your traffic survey?
Mr. Green — Yes, it has. We come up with what we think, we call it the traffic
distribution, what we think the distribution through the site will be and it is based on
exactly everything that you just said. Circulation, you know, the ease of access to
the adjacent highway. So yes, that, .we actually come up with that first, and then we
say okay there is going to be this number of new cars and then we take those new
cars and apply them to those percentages that we think will...
Board Member Talty — Okay. So that has already been taken into account. So for
example the people coming in heading east/west on King, they are only going
maybe 25 mph because they are going to have to stop at that signal at 96B so it will
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 19
be a lot easier in cue to get out onto King if I'm going to proceed versus 55 mph
coming say out of the teller or at the drive - through teller at the bank,, heading to cue
to try to proceed north onto 96B. Do you understand what I am trying to get.at?
Mr. Green — Yes. Exactly.
Board Member Talty — Because if I'm a person that is going to utilize this facility, I
may not want to sit in cue heading north or turning out of this facility to head north on
that 96B because it is 55 mph, if they catch the light right.
Mr. Green —Yes. Yes.
Chairperson Wilcox — Its also more dangerous.
Board Member Talty — That's what I'm saying. Do you know what I mean?
Mr. Green — Yes. Exactly.
Board Member Talty So that has all been considered is what I'm trying to point out.
Mr. Green — Yes. It has been.
Mr. Kanter — The benefit of this particular corner for the development is that it is
traffic controlled at the intersection, at the main intersection. So actually people will
be able to take advantage of that traffic light depending on which way they want to
go.
Board Member Talty — Right.
Mr. Green — Yes..
Board Member Talty — I was kind of surprised that you didn't have the same type of
feature that. you had for the entrance and exit on King over on the Danby exit.
Mr. Green — Oh, the two lanes out versus one lane in and one lane out?
Board Member Talty — Yes, because it seems to me if you are trying to get out and
you are making a left hand turn, you are going...
Mr. Bartelotti — We had it the way you suggested, but th-e State told it to change it to
the way it is shown on the plans.
Board Member Talty — Well, that wasn't very smart.
Mr. Kanter — Do you have an explanation for why the State requires that because it
seems a little bit contradictory to...
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 20
Mr. Green — The State has certain standards. They look at this and say this is a
minor commercial development. You get a 24 foot wide driveway, one lane in and
one lane out. You have to prove to them the need for two lanes out because they
don't want to see their access points any wider than absolutely necessary to try and
some uniformity along their corridor. Based on the traffic volumes we think this will
generate it doesn't warrant two lanes exiting. So and we feel that is why that
preliminary comment came back from the State that way.
Board Member Talty — So how did you get it over here on King?
Board Member Thayer — It's a Town road.
Board Member Talty — Oh, it's the difference between, I got it.
Mr. Kanter — As they were saying, they still need to get the County's approval of that
in order to do it.
Board Member Hoffmann — Well, Kevin I can think of another reason why it is not a
good idea to have two going out like that. When I exit from the P &C shopping
center, East Hill Plaza onto Pine Tree Road and I want to turn, whether I turn left or
right, very often ... I have a regular sedan, very often a little pickup truck or an SUV
will pull up next to me, completely block my view from whatever direction I want to
turn in. I mean...
Board Member Talty — I can understand that.
Board Member Hoffmann — And so I have to sit there even though I was at the
intersection first until they go by and there is often more than one. So it is a visibility
problem for the people who use...
Board Memb
happened to
row, but that
I'm going to
same thing.
er Talty — Right. That is
me, that exact thing at
is why I brought it up.
have to ... I will come all
That is why I brought up
Mr. Green — Yes.
why I brought up line of sight because that has
the P &C and given the miles per hour in each
f I want to proceed north on 96B, knowing that
the way around to use the King exit to do the
that point to start with.
Board Member Talty — Because people will take the path of least resistance. There
is no question about it.
Mr. Green — Right.
Board Member Talty — But if it is all taken in, then that's fine. That was my question.
Planning Board Minutes - Final
2/20/07 Page 21
Mr. Green — Yes. And another thing that comes into play as far as access points,
there needs to be sufficient amount of sight distance available to your left and right
before your pull out and that is based on the speed limit. It is based on the actual
travel speed, but it goes along a lot with the posted speed limit so that is something
else that New York State DOT wouldn't allow this if there wasn't ample sight
distance in both directions. So...
Chairperson Wilcox — Its amazing how much time we spend on traffic, but its
important.
Board Member Thayer —Absolutely,
Chairperson Wilcox - Are you ready to move on? Go ahead.
Board Member Hoffmann — I have two more things I want to talk about.
Chairperson Wilcox - I'm sorry. Any other comments or questions about traffic?
Okay. Good. So ask your question and they will decide who is the best to answer.
Board Member Hoffmann — I have two questions. One is, I had trouble finding that,
um, what was it called? The retention pond? Which is supposed to be in the
northwest...
Mr. Freeman - ...engineer to finish up the receipt. They are good. Its coming. And
to address two items left. One was signs, which was brought to my attention. In the
previous package that was submitted we had a large entrance sign along the State
road and we had a timber structure and Jonathan pointed out to me that that comes
in ... that that structure counts as square footage. So what Evan has agreed to do is,
is simplify it. We are going to have two posts. The sign plate will be the same area
and its in your package there. So we have removed the structure, but the sign will
be the same size. So we are going to simplify that and that is something, again, we
are in the preliminary design phase. As we develop our project we will supply the
board with a more. detailed sign plan.
Board Member Thayer — Because this one only has room for 4 tenants.
Mr. Freeman — Right and we are working on that as you know. So we will keep you
up to date on that at the next package. Okay and just another thing that was on the
Town's checklist was the, ah, there is a 30% open space calculation required. Just
so you know, the green area within the red line currently is at 43% and if you take
the detention basin out its 42 %. So with that being said, unless there is any other
site questions, we have a pretty unique stormwater detention system here and I
would like to bring up Rudy Zona to describe that system to you.
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 22
Rudy Zona, RZ Engineering
Rudy Zona, RZ Engineering, 6320 Fly Road, East Syracuse, New York. The
stormwater system that we have at the site is. employed based on New York State
Department of Environmental Conservation State standards. They have a
stormwater design handbook that you have to abide by to meet the Phase II
requirements. Phase II requirements come into play any time you disturb more of an
acre of land. So this project site is just over four acres, and obviously that falls
underneath that. So Mr. Monkemeyer has to apply for a State DEC SPDES permit
to monitor his stormwater. So we have designed a detention pond and actually its
called a wet pond that meets the State's requirement.
There are many requirements that the pond's dimensions, side slopes, outflow
requirements, all those things are included in what the State requires. The only
difference, there is a little tweak to this pond in contrast to what ponds you might
usually see and that is that the water quantity storage is underground. Typically
when you do a commercial development or anything you have a pond where all the
water is stored outside. This particular development, due to the site layout, and the
desirability of the concept plan where we would like to keep everything closer to the
road, make if more visible and meet some of Mr. Monkemeyer's requirements that
he put forth to us, made space limited. So we had to put the quantity, in other
words, the increase created by the impervious area in the development underground
and the treatment for the water, which is to treat the water from road salt, sand, any
of the oils off the cars, all that kind of stuff that's outside and that is the area in blue
that you see. What will happen, how this pond will work is when it rains there is
going to be water in this pond all the time and then when it rains it will rise up and
get higher and it will back up into the underground storage portion that we have
underneath the parking lot. In the handouts for most of you, I don't know if we had
enough copies for everyone, but right in the back there is a storm tank brochure that
is right off the Internet. You can research it if you like. That is just the one we have
selected for the time being. All it is, is a piece of plastic. Its age 25 loaded, which
means you can drive a tractor - trailer over it, fully loaded semi. They do testing
where they backed it right over it. We have some case studies and things if anyone
wishes to see it at a later date. So they are good for under parking lots. This is
typically how they use these things. The benefit to it is that it has 97% voids in it. so
you can almost treat it like it is outdoor storage. It is basically a big void space for
the water to back up into. Then there is a pipe that comes out and it will go into that
blue area and outlet under the road to the State DOT's right -of -way.
Chairperson Wilcox — I'm not sure we've seen this before.
Board Member Hoffmann — I don't remember that we have and as I said, I had
trouble figuring out where it was because I didn't see any wording that said detention
pond.
Board Member Thayer — Have you seen this before, Dan?
Mr. Walker — I have seen similar...
Board Member Thayer — Is it anywhere in our town?
Mr. Walker — I don't think we have installed anything.
Board Member Thayer — I didn't think so.
Mr. Walker — Its pretty expensive.
Mr. Zona — Real expensivE
system is that it does cost
pipe and stone, similar to
there'd be a pipe with some
void space so you have to
void space so you lose less
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 23
That's the detriment with going with an underground
money. A lot of times underground systems consist of
a septic system. You know it would be underground,
stone in it, but the disadvantage to that is that it has less
use more of it. With this type of system you have more
square footage area.
Board Member Hoffmann — Could you then explain, please, what are these little
structures here? There is like a longated area here close to the northern boundary
and then a little funny shaped thing here. What are those?
Chairperson Wilcox — She's good.
Mr. Zona — That is what we call riprap. Its basically angular stone to slow down the
water velocity. So that is going to be open space. The water is going to come out of
a pipe to that area and its going to discharge to it and flow over those rocks and
what those rocks are there for is to decrease the velocity of the water so it doesn't
erode what is underneath.
Board Member Hoffmann — So this line from the detention pond going out to that
riprap area is the pipe?
Mr. Zona — This is coming along this way. Let me get out the big plan.
Board Member Hoffmann — Yes. Please. Then everybody can see.
Mr. Zona — Coming along this side, she's talking about an area that is right in here.
Coming along this side you have a bypass pipe. There is a drainage channel that
runs along this portion of the property and it is going to enter a pipe down here like it
does under the existing conditions and get to the road. So where that pipe outlets,
we want to make sure that where it outlets you are concentrating flow in that area
that you decrease the velocity so that you don't promote erosion. That's what that is
there for. The detention pond will outlet this way into this area and that is the reason
for the riprap in that area.
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07. Page 24
Board Member Thayer — The underground storage is going to be just in that one
parking lot or all of it?
Mr. Zona — That is correct. It is just underneath this parking lot right here and there
is a little dashed area right around it. It will be underneath an area probably the
width of my finger. So this square right there.
Board Member Hoffmann — Sometimes those riprapped areas aren't very attractive
to look at. Is it possible to do plantings around them to hide them a little bit?
Mr. Zona — You really don't ... it you do plantings it impedes the flow of the water and
decreases the capacity of the channel. Riprap is a pretty effective method of doing
both, keeping the capacity in the channel and slowing down the erosive velocity of
the water. It is a typical practice done pretty much all throughout the State.
Board Member Hoffmann — I know but it is ugly throughout the State. I'm not saying
to plant next to the riprap, but along the outside to hide it a little bit.
Mr. Zona — All right. In this area here you are probably not going to be able to do
anything there because that's the State's right -of -way and they are not going to let
you plant trees and stuff in their right -of -way or bushes or anything else. probably. In
this area you could probably. plant on both sides of it, but when you do plant there
that promotes siltation more than the rocks themselves so it is really undesirable to
do that.
Board Member Hoffmann — I see.
Board Member Talty — Is there different type of riprap?
Mr. Zona — There is. Some people like to use round cobbles. They don't slow down
the velocity as efficiently as the angular stone. The State Highway Department and
most drainage facilities are fitted with the rounded stone ... not the rounded stone. I
misspoke, the angular stone.
Chairperson Wilcox — I'm sure we've not run out of questions. While we take a
pause, let me provide some information for those of you members of the general
public that are here. To the Cornell University people, we thank you for waiting.
Members of the public, we are going to give a chance to speak briefly. This board
has made a habit of getting public input early on in the process and yes, its not a
public hearing, but we like to hear from you and we like to hear from you early. So
we will give you a couple of minutes each to speak for those of you who want to
make a presentation, either points that we haven't brought up or specific issues that
you are aware of that should be addressed or maybe we haven't mentioned yet
tonight. The plan would be for Mr. Monkemeyer and his agents to go back, refine
their drawings and at some point on their schedule, we would expect that they would
come back with formal application and we would then go through the formal
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 25
environmental review and should we get through that with no significant impacts,
presumably, then we would go to the preliminary approval. There would be a public
hearing at that point and you would have a chance to speak. So if we don't have
any more questions at this point ... yes, Jon?
Mr. Kanter — Just a couple of things. One, a follow up to what you were saying on
that process. This is at the formal application point, actually. We have basically
everything we normally would to go to preliminary approval for most projects. In our
discussions with the applicant, we agreed to bring it to the board informally to get
some advanced discussion on these items and to wait and see what the applicant
wanted to do about the possible subdivision of the site, which is something we would
need to know about to proceed with the SEOR determination. So that is something
we probably want to ask tonight. Also in terms of process, I think there might have
been a misunderstanding about comments in our memo about special permit for the
bank drive- through. That already would be included as part of the application that is
before the Board. You don't need to do anything else to do that. This is already part
of the application for site plan and special permit before the Board.
Chairperson Wilcox - ...subdivision is up to Mr. Monkemeyer. There could be good
reasons for him to subdivide just this parcel of land on which this commercial
development is proposed to occur and he and his agents can make that
determination whether they want to keep the subdivision as part of the plan. It would
be in everyone's best interest to consider site plan and subdivision at that same time
should they decide to subdivide off this property from the larger parcel. Eva?
Board Member Hoffmann —Yes. I had one more comment. I didn't realize that this
site plan part was going to finish. Other members of the board know that I don't
particularly like these light fixtures. They make me think of Darth Vader [laughter],
but they are very fashionable right now and almost every applicant brings in this kind
of fixture. To add insult to injury to me, this particular manufacturer calls this the
Stockholm series and it has absolutely no connection to me to the lovely city of
Stockholm. I wish you would think. of something that is a little more attractive.
Otherwise I like what you have planned, what you have presented. It looks very
nice.
Mr. Freeman — We'll take that under advisement. One of the things I just wanted to
mention before we got off the stormwater was, Rudy went through a lot of the
benefits to the actual functional use of the underground storage, but really one of the
big driving factors in addition to those was the fact that there is a big aesthetic gain
to doing that. To accommodate it on surface, we really would have had a big
channel across the front of this site that you couldn't really plant in and its just this
dry, big void that really wasn't' that attractive. So Mr. Monkemeyer was willing to
take the extra expense to kind of go and put it underground because it is more
expensive to do that way.
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 26
Board Member Hoffmann — Yeah, and it is very nice of you to do that. I like that part
of it. I like most of it, actually. The building and everything.
Chairperson Wilcox — We should mention that there are aspects of this, which are
not consistent with the zoning and that is the size of the building. When we saw this
proposal 11 months ago, I think this board was in general agreement that the
proposal that we saw at the time was actually quite nice and accomplished what
zoning wanted to accomplish, which was smaller retail. We didn't want a large
building with a single retailer. We wanted multiple uses, whether we get a bank or
we get a bakery or whether we get some other retail, whether we get a doctor's or
dentist office, I'm not sure. We'll have to wait and see, but it certainly is consistent
with the intent of the zoning in this area to provide mixed commercial use in smaller
offices and that's good.
Board Member Thayer — They've done a good job doing that.
Chairperson Wilcox — Yeah, I still feel that this could be a benefit to the South Hill
area and this band is zoned for commercial development. As I said, we have a habit
of giving the public a chance to speak even though it is not a public hearing. So
Evan, if you're all set then take a seat. Ladies and gentlemen, as I said, this is not a
public hearing, but we'll give you the opportunity to make brief statements if you
would, comments, questions, concerns, so if you raise your hand I'll call on you.
You can come up and we'll ask that you give us your name and address and you get
your comments on the record. You can get your questions and concerns before us
and the applicant and their agents and you certainly will still have a chance to speak
when we get to the public hearing. In fact, presumably when and if we get to the
actual environmental review, I wouldn't be surprised if we provide the public a
chance to speak as part of the environmental review and then again as part of the
public hearing. Again we like to get input. So anybody? Your choice, your call, your
opportunity.
Tessa Flores, 154 Compton Road
I just hope that you will be able to save a few more of those big old trees and I have
a question. Is it really a 556 seat restaurant? That's in the letter that Jon Kanter
wrote to the Planning Board, February 12th page 2. It's the final paragraph. Maybe I
don't understand how they tabulate restaurant seating.
Mr. Kanter — Well, I didn't make it up. I was just using the numbers that the
applicant provided so perhaps they can answer that.
Chairperson Wilcox — When we have everybody speak, we'll...
Ms. Flores — Maybe its just a typo. Thank you.
Chairperson Wilcox — Anybody else? Kris?
Kris Hodges, 16 Saunders Road
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 27
Just thinking about the entrance onto 96B. Eva talked about heading out of P &C
onto Pine Tree and I've sat there trying to make a left hand turn onto Pine Tree and
I've waited many times a long time and even that that slow speed I see that it can be
challenging to get into the traffic and I kind of fear on 96B there people trying to
make a left hand turn to go south on 96B with the traffic going at 50 or 55 mph and
wondering if maybe we should force a right hand turn only on that entrance onto
96B. So that's just something I want to put out there to consider because is just fear
some accidents happening with people heading out and trying to get into that fast
traffic.
Chairperson Wilcox — Thank you, Kris. Anybody else? Thank you all very much. Do
you want to come up and address the question with regard to the restaurant size?
Mr. Bartelotti — That number is kind of misleading. Really what that is, is we try to
portray the worse case. We said we have roughly 7,000 square feet of restaurant, if
we had not kitchen and there was a seat in the entire space that is the maximum
amount of people you could put in that space. We didn't want to present ... a lot of
times there are assumptions made. Thirty or 40% of it is kitchen space, but we said
lets just give the max so you know that we are never going to exceed these
numbers. At this point without a hard plan to determine what type of restaurant is in
there, we really don't know so we are just giving worse case.
Chairperson Wilcox — Thank you. Anything else at this point?
Board Member Thayer — I'm all set.
Chairperson Wilcox — I think we are all set. I want to ask you a question,
representing Evan and everybody else, is there anything else you need from us this
evening that you are aware of? Do you have the information you need to go
forward? Any questions?
Mr. Freeman — I think its just getting in touch with the County and getting some
approvals from the County to get those accesses into the street.
Chairperson Wilcox'--I think the one other thing I want to say is we like landscaping.
If you think you have enough landscaping?
Mr. Freeman — Put some more in.
Chairperson
Wilcox
— Add some
more
landscaping. We really do like landscaping.
Absolutely.
It serves
a very, very
useful
purpose.
Jim Kerrigan, West Seneca Street
I'm Jim Kerrigan, West Seneca Street, Ithaca. I am the attorney for Evan and I
would like to try and address the question you asked, Mr. Wilcox, as to additional
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 28
information. The principle concern that I think we have and I think we are coming
back next month for approval. We think it is on the agenda and.what is here is here.
Chairperson Wilcox —I'm sorry. You are coming back next month for consideration.
How's that?
Mr. Kerrigan — Okay. Forgive me for being optimistic. The question has to do with
sidewalks. The developer has tried to take significant pedestrian access away from
50 mph highways on Route 96 by running a sidewalk and working out arrangements
with Integrated Acquisition Development and Ithaca College. And I heard the
sidewalk questions and I wasn't sure if the board was encouraging sidewalk
development on 96B first of all, which is a little bit puzzling to me. And secondly from
a planning perspective, with ditches, and culverts and highway rights -of -way with
both the County and King Road and 96B owned by the State, it is fairly difficult and it
seems most likely that sidewalks along West King Road are going to encourage
pedestrian access from school. I don't know what the school's position is, I'm going
to solicit that, but I'd have some reservations about building a sidewalk from the
school toward the 55 mph State highway. Some feedback as to whether we can
build 3 sidewalks or 2 sidewalks or what the board would like to see might be helpful
if I can answer a question with a question and I thank you for the opportunity.
Chairperson Wilcox — I'll speak first if I may? And then I'll let the rest of you add
your comments. We are concerned about pedestrian safety. When. the issue of
pedestrian safety comes up, usually it is followed by sidewalks because sidewalks
provide a specific area for pedestrians, for walkers, to visit the site and exit the site.
Personally, if you can make the case without sidewalks that pedestrians can get to
and from this site safely from the hotel, for example, you don't have to make the
case from College Circle, the sidewalk is already there. If you are going to make the
case that the pedestrians can get to and from this commercial site safely through
alternate means, then a sidewalk would not be required for me, but I can't speak for
the board.
Board Member Thayer — Like I mentioned before, there is definitely a restaurant
there and with a hotel across the road, there has got to be foot traffic. People are
going to stop. They are going to want dinner, gonna want breakfast assuming the
restaurant serves that they are going to be wanting to walk across the road instead
of driving. Its so near and I would just like to make sure we have a safe way that the
pedestrian can get across the road and into the restaurant by foot. I think it is going
to happen regardless if there is a sidewalk there or not and we just want it safe that's
all.
Board Member Conneman — I agree with that. I mean I think the problem is that
there is going to be a lot of people on this corner when they build the hotel and
people are going across, then what do they do. That is the issue.
Board Member Thayer — I think it is bound to happen.
Planning Board Minutes - Final
2120107 Page 29
Board Member Hoffmann — And its just not for the new development and the hotel
and other things that are going up now whether it is residential or, not, but for the
residential environment all around King Road and along Route 96 both north and
south. When you put in things that will serve the neighborhood, I think you need to
make sure that the neighbors can get there safely and that means putting in
sidewalks.
Board Member Thayer — I wouldn't encourage a sidewalk up to the school though. I
don't think that is necessary nor should we encourage it at.all. I think just to the...
Chairperson Wilcox — We are more worried about the hotel and the commercial
development in the area.
Board Member Thayer - Exactly. If you are in a house on up the road you are going
to drive in.
Board Member Hoffmann — Its not just the school. The school happens to be closest
to this land, but then there are lots of residences up along King Road toward the
east and off King Road, too. I wouldn't be surprised if they would enjoy having
sidewalks to go to get to this area and it's not just this. There have been other
things that have come up recently. The pizza and sandwich shop, the little green
market, which was built in the Ziebart building and there is no doubt going to be
more coming when Mr. Auble develops more of his parcel. So...
Board Member Thayer — That all ties in with a walk light and a sidewalk.
Board Member Hoffmann — Yup. That's right.
Chairperson Wilcox — You didn't expect us to be unanimous in our thought?
Mr. Kerrigan — The input is helpful. I didn't understand the slices of it. I am sure it is
very, very helpful.
Mr. Kanter — In terms of a policy perspective, the Town's recent sidewalk policy,
which is soon to be adopted in the Transportation Plan, calls for connections of
sidewalks and walkways. So in this area even though there is not a current sidewalk
going east on East King Road, for instance, it is a priority area for future sidewalks
and so when a development comes in and we have the opportunity to build a
sidewalk on that development's frontage knowing that it may connect in the future,
probably not too far off in the future to adjacent development, then you should take
advantage of the opportunity to do it. So that is what the actual Town policy says.
Chairperson Wilcox — Thank you. Did that help you, Jim?
Mr. Kerrigan — A great deal. Thank you.
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 30
Chairperson Wilcox — We all set? Thank you all.
SKETCH . PLAN: Consideration of a sketch plan for the proposed
improvements to the Cornell University Utilities Department Service Yard
located between Maple Avenue and Dryden Road (NYS Route 366) around the
Central Heating Plant, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No.'s 63 =1 -8.1, 63-1 -8.2, and
63 =1 -5, Light Industrial and Low Density Residential Zones. The proposal
involves improving an existing oil tank, expansion and reconfiguration of the
existing Cornell. Maple Avenue substation, replacement of the existing coal
conveyor with a new covered coal conveyor, installation of a new coal off
loading structure, and the reconfiguration and upgrading of the existing
service roadways.. Cornell University, Owner /Applicant; Steve Beyers, Agent.
An overview of the future Cornell University Combined Heat and Power Project
and the .Cornell University Gas Line Project will also be discussed.
Chairperson Wilcox opens this segment of the meeting at 8:21 p.m. and reads the
agenda item to the board.
Ed Wilson, Cornell University, Humphrey Service Building
My name is Ed Wilson. I work at Cornell University at Humphrey Service Building,
Ithaca, New York. So what we want to do ... do you want to flip the first slide, Tim?
Is basically to a sketch -plan . review- for 4 projects we plan on completing this
summer. As your information, is replace and upgrade a coal conveyor, modify the
oil storage tank that we have, renew and reconfigure our electrical substation and
extend and improve access road around the coal pile area. What we would also like
do is preview two other projects. We would like to state upfront that our counsel said
that these are legally segmentable projects and they are not interdependent. So we
want to give you a preview of what will be coming forward in the future, but they are
not connected projects. Okay?
Chairperson Wilcox — You understand that your counsel can say that, but it doesn't
make it true?
Mr. Wilson — That is correct.
Chairperson Wilcox — Welcome, Shirley.
Mr. Wilson — So I'll hand it off to my colleague to talk about the 4 projects this
summer. When we complete that I would like to preview for you the two projects
that have also been announced.
Tim Peer, Cornell University
Tim Peer. I am the Senior Utilities Engineer at Cornell University, Humphries
Service Building. I am the project manager for both the utility yard service upgrade,
the combined heat and power project and the Cornell gas line. What we have here
is to help orient you to where this project is going on is a location map of the Cornell
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 31
campus so there we are on the south part of campus between Route 366 and I'll
point it out with my pointer if that helps. Route 366 is right here and Maple Ave
behind and this is what we are referring to as the service yard area. So next slide
please, Ed.
Zooming in a little closer, again here is Route 366, Maple Ave and a couple of the
other infrastructure around here to help orient you is the Humphreys Service
building, central heating plant. This is the NYSEG substation that serves Ithaca. So
I'll come to them individually in more detail, but looking at the service yard here is
the oil tank we'll be talking about and a location for a new oil offloading facility, which
is currently located right there. The Cornell substation. Some areas that we want to
improve, access roads and some lay down area. Here is the coal conveyor that
takes coal from the pile and conveys it into the facility. This picture here; if we have
to refer back to it at different times I have here on this poster just for reference.
Okay? Next slide please.
Looking at the coal .conveyor replacement itself. We are doing this project for
renewal and improvement of that conveying system into the plant. This original
conveyor is 30 years old and so we are going to.. .the location of the conveyor will
not change. It has the same ... we are going to take it off at the same point and bring
it into the plant at the same point. It will look slightly different because the new one
we are going to cover. Totally enclose it so we don't get dust or fugitive emissions
that fall off the conveyor when it is in operation. Some of the foundations you see
here on railroad trusses that were built back in the 1920s we are going to change
those foundation locations.
For the oil storage tank renewal and resizing, this again is a piece of infrastructure
that is 40 years old now and this is being done to provide renewal and also meet
regulatory requirements for the storage of number 2 fuel oil. This tank currently
stores number 6 oil.
Chairperson Wilcox — What's the difference?
Mr. Peer — Number 2 oil is a more refined product. It is a distilled oil. Number 6 oil
is sometimes referred to as residual oil. It is what is left over after all the gasoline
and refined products are made. Some of the boilers that we have in there that had
the capability to burn oil we are going to convert them to a more refined product.
Board Member Thayer — So they'll burn cleaner?
Mr. Peer — Yes.
Board Member Thayer — All right.
Mr. Peer — It is probably worth stating that the 2 oil that we are going to be
converting to is the ultra low sulfur number 2 oil so it is the lowest sulfur content that
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 32
is available. So again, the shell height. Its hard to see here on the projection but I
put a little line there. Its about a third of the way down. The shell height is going to
be physically lowered to meet regulatory requirements for this lower storage volume
in this tank. While we are doing that we are going to put a double wall floor in with
secondary leak detention. A lot of these have to do with regulatory requirements
that are much more stringent for the storage of number 2 oil. The piping going to the
tank and into the plant we are going to replace all that and again it is hard to see on
this projection, but this is a containment area for spills out of that tank so we are
going to improve that containment area and upgrade it and bring it in to regulatory
requirements for number 2 oil. And oil unloading facility will be relocated to a better
area that will improve that process and make containment associated with offloading
oil trucks better.
Chairperson Wilcox — Would you need more deliveries given that the tank is that
much smaller?
Mr. Peer — No. We, ah, fuel oil is used as a backup fuel in our operations so
generally from year to year we burn very little oil.
Board Member Talty — Demolition? Or we didn't get to demolition? I'm sorry. When
I was reading it, it doesn't look as though ... is that whole entire thing being removed
or...?
Mr. Peer— We will physically cut the top off...
Board Member Talty — And lower it?
Mr. Peer — Yes. Cut off a third of the shell and reinstall the roof.
Board Member Talty - Reinstall it? I understand.
Mr. Peer — Our intent is to reinstall it after an engineering assessment when we
clean the tank and look at it and assess the condition. We may put a new one on,
but it will look the same only shorter. The color may also change due to regulatory
requirements.
Chairperson Wilcox — I'm sorry. The color would change due to regulatory
requirements? Can you explain?
Board Member Thayer — That is strange.
Mr. Peer — Yes. There are photo requirements and NFPA, National Fire Protection
Association, requirements associated with the storage of number 2 oil.
Chairperson Wilcox — The color of the tank would clue the firefighters or emergency
responders...?
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 33
Mr. Peer — The color of the tank helps prevent thermal loading,. the, gain of thermal
energy so that you don't have ... you don't increase the amount of evaporation for
viable components.
Board Member Thayer — So what color will it be?
Mr. Peer— White,
Board Member Thayer White?
Chairperson Wilcox — Okay.
Mr. Kanter — So either way, replacement or same it is still going to be white? It
would be painted white?
Mr. Peer — Yes.
Chairperson Wilcox — Thank you.
Mr. Peer — Next slide please. Thank you. All right. So this is looking at the
University owned substation. We are .directly connected to the transmission system
that NYSEG owns. This project is about renewal and improving the reliability of this
critical infrastructure. This is what keeps the University operating. We are going to
replace the existing two transformers and at the same time add. a third transformer.
So the additional, the third transformer will meet another one of the these A -frame
type structures will be added right in this area and another transformer behind it so it
will look very much like what is there right next to it.
This building here houses the breakers and switch gears that are associated with the
different main circuits that are on campus. This is the little tin building. We wanted
to construct a new one down at this end that is built to a higher standard so it will
improve the security and functionality of that. We will also add some environmental
controls internally so we can have more reliable equipment.
The last one I don't have a picture for you, but looking on the site plan here there is
an existing access road up in this area that is a little difficult to see. Is that pointed
okay? Okay. We want to actually improve these access roads and extend some
additional ones around the coal pile here and up to the substation. This is being
done to improve accessibility to a lot of the critical infrastructure we have here. One
of the items is the oil unloading facility located up here, we need to make sure that
We can accommodate oil unloading trucks in this area and if there is trucks
unloading oil or coal directly onto the coal pile we need to maintain an all time
access to our substation in case something happened and we needed to dispatch
our emergency crew.
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 34
Board Member Thayer — All of the coal that is trucked, is it?
Mr. Peer —Yes.
Board Member Thayer — And how often and how many trucks like day or week do
you have?
Mr. Peer — I will actually let Ed, the Central Heating Plant manager, address that for
you.
Board Member Thayer — The same question about the oil. How many trucks would
you have with that ?.
Ed — Right now we burn about 65,000 tons of coal annually which is about 2500
trucks annually.. So it averages out to be about 10 trucks per weekday, if you
average it out. The old deliveries we use very little oil right now. Again it is a
backup fuel, just in case we can't carry a load with our other coal or natural gas. So
right now it is probably less than 20 trucks a year of oil that we get.
Board Member Thayer — I am curious as to where does the coal come from? What
road does it use to get into Ithaca?
Ed — Okay. In our coal purchase contracts we specify a delivery. route. Right now
about 90% of our coal we receive by rail, which gets delivered to a siding behind
Wegman's and a local company unloads onto to trucks and. our purchase order
specify that they must go up Route 13 to Route 366 and come back, go up Maple
Avenue to our coal pile to avoid traffic up Route 79. 1 can't say that they always
comply with that, but we do quite a bit to insure that they do.
Board Member Hoffmann — Can I ask a question having to do with the coal and oil,
too? Will there be any change in the amount of coal used now that you are putting
in these other facilities for oil and a different kind of oil and will there be not just a
change in the amount of coal, but in the quality of coal?
Ed — For sure I can cover that in the next few minutes. Tim has something else to
say. I will make sure I answer that.
Mr. Peer — Just for another bit of clarity, Maple Ave. This is what we call the Maple
Ave parking lot where Cornell traffic is housed. The coal trucks come in this parking
lot and off load in this area. And we want to move some of the off loading directly
onto the coal pile to help issues with coal handling dust production.
Chairperson Wilcox — Before you go on, if I may, you were talking about the access
road modifications. Do you have a ... I think Cornell leases a telephone pole in the
vicinity for cellular antennas and I'm wondering if one of the ... if that company has
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 35
access right across your roads to get around the coal pile and get up into that field to
the east. I'm not sure.
Mr. Peer — Yes, they do. Right here where the text lay down area is, that is a power
pole. That is our tap pole, actually, for our substation and that cellular array is
located on that pole. Right below it is their little house. It is not shown on this
picture because its not modern enough and so that would also actually...
Chairperson Wilcox — You are aware of whatever legal right they have to cross the
property to get to the pole that was negotiated with Cornell.
Mr. Peer — Yes. We are addressing that.
Board Member Thayer — You use a bulldozer to push the coal into the conveyor?
How is that done?
Mr. Peer — There is a. bucket loader back there that moves the coal from the pile into
a hopper area right about where there area that uses this conveyor and takes it into
the plant.
Board Member Thayer — So that is constantly on the move, right?
Mr. Peer — Pretty much.
Mr. Wilson — Basically, we have to move coal into the plant in the winter months,
when we have heavier heating needs, probably 6 — 7 hours a day. We have about a
300 ton storage plant, that's about a days worth of burn. So during the summer it
can be very lightly used and in the winter it's more heavily used, but it's generally
less than 8 hours a day.
Board Member Thayer — The reason I ask is because I have a cottage in the shadow
of Miliken, so I am very conscious of the noise that it makes to transfer that coal into
the conveyor belt. It's a very annoying noise.
Mr. Wilson — We get all of our coal delivered by truck and we limit truck delivery
hours to roughly 8 am — 3 pm, there is some outside of that but not much and most
all of our coal is transported into the plant through that v conveyor between the
hours of 7am and 2pm but that can happen 7 days a week, especially in the colder
winter months.
Board Member Thayer — If you could talk AES Cayuga into putting a cover on their
chute, that would be great.
Mr. Peer — We will go back to this in the end and of course field more questions, but
what we wanted to do was take a few moments here to gibe you a broader view, a
bigger picture of some of the other projects that are going to be going on in the same
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2120!07 Page 36
area so you get the big picture of what's going on here. So I'll turn it back over to
Ed.
Mr. Wilson — Okay. I didn't say it at first but I am the Heating Plant Manager at
Cornell. So Tim is doing these projects to support the reliability of the plant and the
new projects I will be responsible to operate. So 1'd like to fill you in with what will be
coming, but again, we feel that these projects are interdependent. and not really
reliant upon each other, but wanted to have you see what's going on in the next
couple of years.
Basically, we announced the combined heat and power project last spring. We
decided to add to the south side of our existing plant, so it's the opposite side of
Route 366, and install two combustion turbines which are basically engines fired with
natural gas or fuel oil which drive an electrical generator and they each produce
about 15,000 kilowatts or 15 megawatts of power and the exhaust of those units,
where they exhaust hear, we will use a heat recoversteam generator and that
basically will generate steam, reduce the heat that is otherwise lost, and will
generate some additional electricity through some steam turbines that we have, and
then all of that exhaust heat from the steam turbines is used to be exhausted to the
campus and heat the campus. So we are much more efficient doing it that way than
a typical powerplant, more than double the efficiency to do that.
We plan on starting construction in 2008, and have these units in service for the
winter of '09 —'106
So this is somewhat of a cartoonish color, picture of what we plan on doing and to
just give you little bit of information; Basically the gas fired engine would be in this
location, turning an electrical generator. The exhaust hear released when we do
that will go through this large, it's called a heat recoversteam generator, it's basically
a boiler where the exhaust hot gasses through and without doing any additional
firing, it will generate steam and we will use that steam to go through steam turbines
that we have in place now and basically exhaust the low pressure steam to campus
for heating needs.
So the location of what we are installing is in the area just south of the central
heating plant. 366 is over here, our coal pile is here and this is our B conveyor that
we plan on renewing this summer. Here happens to be the City of Ithaca Town of
Ithaca line, which goes right through our addition...
So why are we doing this project? It's about a 15 —16 million dollar project. But the
reason we're doing this is for, basically renewal of our heating plant, originally it was
constructed in the early 1900's. We've done improvements along the way but we
are going to retire one boiler when this is in service, a small boiler but basically we
need some additional improvements and reliability. It will meet our future load
growth, so even though we have an aggressive energy conservation program and
held our heating needs almost constant for the last 10 years, with the buildings going
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2120107 Page 37
up on campus, we see the need over the next 15 -20 years for additional steaming
capacity. It provide us fuel flexibility. We will continue to keep our coal boilers in
service, keep 5 of our 6 boilers in service that we have now plus have these two new,
units so that will burn primarily natural gas. It will though, we plan to burn
approximately 50% less coal than we do now, so that's 65,000 tons a year should be
done into the 30's and of course that would also be associated with fewer truck
deliveries of coal. Another benefit is reducing power level supplies. So with the two
new combustion turbines, generating about 30 megawatts and some steam turbines
we have, we'll have enough power generation capability that if Cornell were to lose
electric supply from the grid, we would be able to start he units up and power all of
Cornell's electrical and steam needs even if we didn't have an outside electrical
source.
And finally, the environmental benefits seeing that in the future we generate about
85 %...we generate about 15% of our electrical energy now and with .these units we
will generate about 85% and typically an electric plant that is, that doesn't have a
use for the waste heat like we do for heating campus, is typically at best, 40%
efficient and we are going tot do it overall with about a 75% efficiency rate.
So someone calling this a supply -side energy conservation project. So if we look at
all of the electrical and steam needs of Cornell, about somewheres close to about a
third less energy will have to be put in to make all the energy we're using in the
electric and steam. And associated with that benefit is close to a 20% reduction in
carbon dioxide emissions, with the energy that Cornell will use and close to 50%
reduction in nitrogen oxides and sulfur dioxide emissions.
Board Member Talty — Will you be supplying NYSEG power?
Mr. Wilson — No, basically we will be supply our needs, we are not sure whether we
will be able to provide export power, but basically it's to ... in rare instances I think
we will be able to export power to the grid but primarily, our prime function is to
supply power to Cornell and of course our heating needs at Cornell.
Along with this though, we recently announced, back in November, as an effect of
doing this new project, we need a new gas delivery line. The reasons for that is with
the quantities of gas that we will be billing in the future, the existing, the NYSEG
supply to us isn't of adequate size for the volume or the pressure that will be
required for these units. So we are going to, we are planning to build a gas delivery
line that will be operated at 600 pounds per square inch pressure. It will be about
3.2 miles long, mostly all underground except where we have exit post from the
ground at the beginning and end of the pipe. Eight inches in diameter. It will be a
steel pipe coated, cathartically protected for corrosion protection. Will be built to the
highest safety standards and we plan on constructing that in the summer of 2008.
Board Member Talty — Is 600psi, is that considered high - pressure line?
Mr. Wilson — Yes. The, we'll be tapping into
transportation lines in the Genung Road area of Ellis
pressures over 600 psi and we will build the line to w
the maximum their lines are sized for and they will
pressure in a local distribution system is probably no
Board Member Talty — Tuition is going up.
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2120107. Page 38
the Dominion Interstate gas
Hollow and they have operating
ithstand 1000 psi which is about
reduce. to 600, typically, street
more than 30 -40 pounds.
Mr. Wilson — Actually, the project isn't a significant cost saver for Cornell. It is a long
term, over the next 20 years and so what do we need to. do to ensure that we have
steam reliability for campus. It is closely compared to other options that we
considered such as biomass, a new coal .boiler etc, but some of the savings from
building more expensive natural gas and less expensive coal is the fact that we feel
we can save over the electricity that we would have otherwise purchased.
So the gas delivery line, we have done a number of outreach activities. Basically,
I've met with many of the neighbors . that we identified close to the line that we are
going to build and I have been to some of their homes and talked to them about
what we're doing. We sent out an information mailer to the many government
agencies, other interested parties, local residents ... We had our first neighborhood
meeting the 5t" of February up at the Best Western, and small attendance but we
had a few people come in and ask and we shared the information with them. The
next one is planned for March 1St at the Ellis Hollow Community Center and then
we'll have a couple of meeting that are part of what.is called the Article VII licensing
process. The gas delivery line is regulated and we'll need to get a permit to operate
and construct a gas line under Article VII law that's governed by the NYS Public
Service Commission. So we'll be doing a couple of hearing in April and June as
another opportunity for the public and the community to have input into that process.
Board Member Thayer — Does that pretty much follow the road or do you have to
use private property?
Mr. Wilson — Here is the map that basically, here is Cornell central heating plant and
basically the line parallels, just to the north, immediately adjacent to, the existing 115
volt transmission line that NYSEG has. Here their line splits and we continue
through most of our Cornell property and we are going to have a medium regulating
station, and here is where it connects into Dominion Gas transportation line, that's
Genung Road this is Ellis Hollow. So it's probably about 3.2 miles, almost a straight
line between us and the local gas distribution transportation company. There will be
some buildings located here, some owned by Dominion and some by Cornell. And
Cornell will build and own this line.
Board Member Thayer — So that's pretty much NYSEG property?
Mr. Wilson — No; it's pretty much, we will build it immediately adjacent to their right of
way so we are going to maintain within an existing utility corridor, we will be adjacent
Planning Board Minutes - Final
2/20107 Page 39
to their right of way but we won't be in their right of way. And most of that, 90% of
that is Cornell owned property and we are about to obtain the easements, we will
have an easement here across NYS gamefarm, . across a private property in this
area and a small section there, otherwise it is Cornell property.
So let me turn it back over to Tim and he can talk about the schedule and some of
the approvals we are looking for.
Board Member Hoffmann— Could you please ... you did say something about the
reduction in the amount of coal that would be brought, a 50% reduction, but you also
mentioned something about savings by using less expensive coal. Does that mean
that the quality of coal is not going to be upgraded so that it's less polluting?
Mr. Wilson — Basically we'll be burning the higher amount of gas and the lesser
amount of coal and that will be our most economical way to operate. So our coal
price doesn't change much but the coal needs will be reduced because we will be
generating our steam out of the combustion turbines instead of out of the coal
blowers. Does that answer your question?
Board Member Hoffmann — I guess it does, but I guess what you're saying is that the
quality of coal is going to be the same.
Mr. Wilson — No, the quantity of coal will be about one -half the way it is today.
Board Member Hoffmann —The quality.
Mr. Wilson -- The quality will stay approximately the same, yes.
Board Member Hoffmann — I have lived, for the last 37 years, off Snyder Hill Road
and I have observed over those years that during the winter, the prevailing winds are
toward that area, across East Hill Plaza, into Ellis Hallow and over the areas along
Ellis Hollow Road, Snyder Hill Road, Pine Tree Road...And so I am glad ... I would
like to hear you tell me that there will be less pollution in the air, and I think that by
reducing the amount of coal that you are burning that will happen, but I would Like to
hear you say it again.
Mr. Wilson — Right. There will be less pollution, especially from coal that we're
burning now, so as I stated briefly then, we expect to, I don't have the numbers but
think the CO2 emissions will be reduced by about 20 %, the sulfur dioxide emissions
will be reduced for or energy uses at Cornell by close to 50% as well as by
(inaudible).
Board Member Hoffmann -- And which are the most damaging of those pollutants
that you mentioned?
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 40
Mr. Wilson — I don't know if I can really answer that, but we think that overall there
will be a significant decrease in emissions associated with Come II's energy. I can't,
I'm not probably qualified to say which is better or worse for you health wise or for
the environment.
Board Member Thayer — It's mainly because you are burning less coal.
Mr. Wilson — That is correct.
Board Member Thayer — Not because of the precipitator or anything like that...
Mr. Wilson — All of our environmental features that we have that is called bio- houses
which is used to reduce the emissions which have been installed within the last 10
years and they reduce all the, primarily, the particular that otherwise would have
escaped our stacks. And we buy low sulfur coal to meet our DEC regulations so that
our sulfur emissions are limited and all of that will stay in service, it's just that our
coal consumption will drop to about half, and the quality is not expected to be
changed from what it is today.
Board Member Hoffmann — Is there anything that you can do, that you think you
might do, to reduce, even further, the. damaging emissions from the chimneys?
Chairperson Wilcox — It's like landscaping, you can never do enough.
Mr. Wilson — Well we think, I think we've taken a pretty active roll in addressing new
environmental laws coming up. I know there's a new one coming up that is called
MACT, Maximum Available Control Technology that is a new regulation to limit
mercury emissions that we're taking steps to reduce that. And I think overall we
have done about all that is standard industry practice to reduce the emissions from
our type of units that we have to make steam.
Board Member Thayer — It's hard to believe that the price of coal is more than the
price of the gas.
Mr. Wilson — The price of coal is about half the price of gas per unit of energy. So
we'll be, so I say the ... we will be spending considerably more for fuel but we feel we
will be saving what we would have otherwise spent for electric purchases.
Board Member Thayer — Okay. That's basically my question.
Mr. Wilson — Yeah, coal is about half the cost of natural gas in its' energy content.
So I will give Tim .a chance to talk schedule and then we will both be available to
answer any questions you might have.
Mr. Peer — Thanks, I think it is worth mentioning, I think Ed did mention it, but one of
the things about reducing pollutants is reducing usage and Cornell is undergoing a
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2120107 Page 41
rather aggressive energy conservation initiative. We are trying to do better on that
side also. We are attacking it on both fronts.
Just to give you sort of a picture of when some of these projects will be coming in
front of you. We are here for the sketch plan review for the utility yard improvement
so we're hopefully that March, next month or so we'll be back in front of you for a site
plan application for that project.
The combined heat and power project, we have to submit for a permit to the
Department of Environmental Conservation, you know, associated with emissions,
and that application will trigger SEAR for that project which will certainly take us
through the summer, and again, we were hopeful that late in 2007 that SEQR
process will have wrapped up and we'll be back here for site plan application on that
project.
The gas delivery line, course this is, not being an attorney, but it's my understanding
from our counsel that the SEQR law specifically excludes Article VII processes from
SEQR. It's a regulatory requirement, it's a regulatory process that's driven by the
Public Service Commission, closely mirrors SEQR because it has the same sort of
rigorous environmental review and other studies that you would do through a normal
SEQR process and of course includes opportunities for public input. That is sort of
put on our shoulders through the outreach meetings that we have to do. It is
probably worth mentioning that we are required by law to do one outreach meeting
and we are doing a number of them and Ed's been doing a lot of personal touch with
people, so we are trying to go way above and beyond for that part of the project.
We're sort of back to the end again. We're here for sketch plan review for that and
naturally we'll entertain questions with to do with any of it and we'll sort of trade back
and forth based on the question.
Board Member Thayer — Can we drive up there just to take a look? Is that
permissible, to go in there?
Mr. Wilson — Well there is a lot of truck traffic around there all the time and generally
we have restricted people from driving up there, so I would offer that if anyone were
interested in a tour, I'd be more than happy to entertain giving you a walk through
sometime.
Chairperson Wilcox — Larry, I have driven
I've been waiting for Cornell Safety to c(
so....
up there, I have walked around there and
me and haul me away, but they haven't
Mr. Peer — That would be advisable, to schedule with Ed.
(The Board indicated they would all like a tour)
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2120107 Page 42
Board Member Hoffmann — I have a question about the public information meeting
that you mentioned. You said it will be Ellis Hollow Community Center and I'm not
sure if you meant he elderly housing one next to East Hill Plaza or the one out in
Ellis Hollow,
Mr. Wilson — The first one we conducted was up at the Best Western University Inn
at East Hill Plaza. The second one is going to be at the Ellis Hollow Community
Center right off Ellis Hallow Road on Genung Road. So its right, actually, across
from where our proposed tap -in to the Dominion Interstate Gas Transportation Line
is. And that's March 1St at 7:OOp.m. and then as I say, in April and Juneish we will
have two that we'll hold, and will be noticed in the public advertisements in the paper
as to when they will be and where they will be.
Chairperson Wilcox — Esther, anything you want to say?
Ms. Blodau- Konick — I think the memo that I wrote addresses most of the questions
that were there and you would like, if you want to address the SEQR and SWIFFT
that might be appropriate.
Chairperson Wilcox — Shirley, can I ask you to come up? You don't have to
but.. this will be polite.
We have an opinion from the County on the issue of segmentation. I would assume
you provided an opinion for Cornell University that this would be legal segmentation,
I think that was the term that we used. Do you want to just talk about that for a
couple of minutes.
Shirley Eagan, Cornell University Counsel's Office, 300 CCC Building, Cornell
This may not even be a question of segmentation at all. When my clients first came
to me and explained the things they wanted to do, it looked to me like most of the
things had kind of been on their wanting to do list for a long time anyway and
knowing that they were also going to be planning to do the combined heat and
power project, this probably brought some urgency to getting them out of the way
first, but you heard about things where we just needed to renew old. things or bring
things up to regulations or comply with a request by DEC. So, as I analyzed the
facts, I didn't see that they were connected. They were not dependent upon each
other. We didn't have to do one in order to do the other and vice - versa. If for some
reason, you know, someone decided tomorrow that pops, we're not going to spend
55 million dollars on combined heat and power project, these projects that appear
before you on sketch plan review would still be going ahead. We still want to cover
the conveyor belt and things like that. So, in the event that someone thinks it is
segmentation, I think you could probably make a finding that it can be legal
segmentation but I don't think it even rises to that level. I advised them that I
thought it was really pretty separate, but I know people get very nervous about
segmentation when you're in the same area and it's the same owner and things like
that...So I think there is ample basis for saying it's no less protective of the
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 43
environment, which is what SEQR asks you to do when you've got things going on
with the same owner and the same location and someone thinks Oh, maybe they're
doing this one because of this one, that you're seeing enough of the whole picture
for all of these that they can each be judged independently. Approval of one will not,
would not, force a body to approve another one and vice - versa, so, that was the
basis for my saying this. I did speak with both Lorraine and Susan Brock on the
phone about it and of course they probably want to make sure that they have heard
and understood all of the facts, but I felt very confident advising my clients because
if there was any connection I would have told them, hey, let's apply for everything at
once so you can see it but I didn't see that here.
Ms. Moynihan Schmitt — I spoke with Susan Brock earlier today, as you know, as
well, on this issue and just a couple of quick issues. At this juncture it's just the
sketch plan review for the yard improvements before us. I understand that there's
the CCHPP coming up in 2008 and the associated gas line as well. In terms of legal
segmentation, Susan doesn't want to make a determination at this point, that's a
legal determination, and then also, a factual determination for this Board to go
through the factors. In terms of ... I have a question on Article VII of the Public
Service Law, if you could please give Susan and I that citation you're relying on. I
did go through the SEQR regs and found in the Type II list, 6 67.5 sub 35, there is a
reference to certificate of environmental compatibility ... I am wondering if you are
relying on Type II under that provision or if you're also relying under section 120 or
120a of the Public Service Law ... So if you could get that information to us, we'd
appreciate it.
At this point it looks, at first blush, like this sketch plan before the Board right now
might be an unlisted action. The CCHPP will probably be a Type I, the DEC is
certainly going to be involved, and they will want to be a lead agency and then in
terms of the gas line, if that really is Type 11, that should be the end of the inquiry,
mean if it's Type. ll, it's Type H. So if there is a segmentation question, it would be
the CCPP in conjunction with this sketch plan before us.
Chairperson Wilcox — To be determined, thank you Shirley. Anything else? Is there
anything you need from us at this point?
Mr. Peer — Certainly any preliminary feedback in terms of issues that you're going to
want to ... The hope was here to get any, what you see here is that ... to get any
preliminary issues that you will want to see addressed on the actual site plan
approval application.
Chairperson Wilcox — I think. our questions have indicated where our areas of
interest are. You have Esther's ... I assume you have a copy of Esther's memo to us,
if you don't she'll supply one.
I think we brought up the improvements that will be implemented, we talked about
truck traffic, we talked about visibility a little bit but we'd probably like to see a picture
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 44
of what the covered conveyor belt is going to look like. You have a picture of the
existing one, I'm sure we're going to want a picture of what the. new .one is going to
look like.
Board Member Thayer Esther mentioned the lighting and ...
Mr. Wilson — We'll do a visualization, not so much a visualization study but we'll do
photos. Most of it is hidden. It's actually in somewhat of a depressed area so you
can't see it from anywhere.
Board Member Hoffmann — That smaller tank that you are going to make smaller
still, I don't think that is as visible as the larger one is from the road right? Is the
color going to be stark white or can it be toned down a little bit to be like...
Mr. Wilson — I don't know ... Your concern is or your question is can you make it more
closely matched to the existing tank...
Board Member Hoffmann —Well, stark white sometimes really pops up at you.
Mr. Wilson — Understood, you don't want it to flash...
Board Member Hoffmann — I don't know exactly what I want but something that
blends in with the surroundings to that it doesn't really.
Mr. Kanter — Well, again, the visibility shows that it's not really viewed from any area
so I don't think that's as big an issue...
Board Member Hoffmann — Right, so then it's not so important...
Board Member Talty - It's probably regulated right? I mean you probably use the
exact same color on...
Mr. Wilson — I don't know what the precise regulation says, if it has to be bright white
or maybe a cream color or something lighter.
Board Member Hoffmann — Well I don't think a cream color would blend in with the
environment as well as maybe a cloudy day kind of grey would but ... I don't know. I
could also imagine that maybe the roof could be a stark white because that wouldn't
be so visible whereas the walls could be a different color. But, if you don't see it
much, that's not so important. I am concerned about the quality of what comes out
of the chimney as you have gathered.
Chairperson Wilcox — What else was mentioned... Certainly containment. You
mentioned containment, you are required to have containment areas around the oil
tank. I suspect you are required to have the road coalyard covered so that when
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20107 Page 45
water gets on the coal and runs through it...how might those areas be impacted by
the construction.
Mr. Wilson — Right now our coal pile which is this pile ... our existing unloading area
which goes over into this area somewhat, all has a ... either pavement or impervious
liner such as bentlay, it's a clay material, under that and it, we collect all the rain and
runoff of that area into a collection tank and that is discharged to the Ithaca
Wastewater Treatment Plant. So we collect all the water off of that so nothing
percolates to the ground or any local waterway.
Chairperson Wilcox -Does the City know you are handing it over to them?
Mr. Wilson — Yes.
Board Member Talty — So what type of water? Just rainwater or....
Mr. Wilson — Rainwater or water that may run out of a moist coal load or something.
Board Member Talty — Okay, you're not going through a misting field or anything like
that?
Mr. Wilson — No.
Board Member Hoffmann —. I just thought of another thing that I think I would like to
hear the next time you come in and that is; What are you doing to prevent problems
as you take out the old lines, prevent accidental spillage and such as you take out
the old lines to replace them with new ones and that sort of thing. And when you are
working with the tank that there is no accidental release of something that shouldn't
be released into the ground or the air or whatever.
Mr. Wilson — The, as Tim mentioned, there is a dike area now that is graded for
containing a spill of #6 oil, which is . a thicker product, and that will be disrupted
during the removal of the tank and that will be improved, because #2 is a thinner oil
product, so it provides adequate containment. So we will surely develop steps to
make sure that there is no leakage from the piping.
Board Member Talty — So a thinner viscosity...
Mr. Peer — We are going to hire a firm that is specialized in that type of work. For
the removal of any residual fuel. That has been pre- approved by our Environmental
Compliance Office, to do that work.
Board Member Hoffmann — Now another thing that just occurred to me ... I was
reminded recently that there was a rather disastrous fire in the coal pile a while back,
maybe in the early 70's. As a result of it, there was a release of pollutants into
Casscadilla Creek, mainly sulfur compounds and such and there was a big todo
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 46
about it. Now, you're going to be covering the part of the coal as you move it from
one place to another but is the whole coal pile going to be covered in some way and
are those new things going to create any risk of fire?
Mr. Wilson — Basically, the coal conveyor will be covered so it will roughly be an 8-
foot square box now that goes up along the conveyor and the conveyor is
approximately a 2 -foot wide belt that the coal travels on. So it will contain the dust in
there. There will be a fire detection suppression system in there which again,
operates anywhere from 3 -6 hours a day, otherwise that isn't running. Now a coal
pile won't be or will be the same profile, the same openness that it is today. We
aren't doing anything to increase the likelihood of a fire in the coal pile. I understand
before I came to Cornell, there was a fire in the coal pile years ago and it is just
something that happens very infrequently. Usually when you have voids in the pile
and air can get in, so it's just good coal pile management and keeping it compacted
is usually, reduces the likelihood of a fire.
Board Member Thayer — You're going to drain the oil tank, obviously, before you cut
it. When you cut it, is there some kind of a flame or something that you are cutting it
with...) mean how is it vented to prevent that?
Mr. Peer — Before we cut it the tank will be thoroughly cleaned so there will be no
residual fuel to pose a fire hazard when we do that work.
Board Member Thayer — You can literally get inside there ?.
Mr. Peer— Yes, that's done all the time, it's a very common occurrence and again,
that will be a specialty contractor that specializes in above - ground storage tanks and
performing that kind of work. The.gentleman here had a question that we didn't get
to.
Board Member Talty — With regards to detainment, #2 fuel is a higher viscosity or a
thinner oil, does that mean that the containment field has to be improved?
Mr. Peer — Yea, so the containment area will have a new clay bentanite liner in it. It
will actually, the floor area of that containment area will actually go from, it's grass
now, it will become a stone surface, and we do that because we need to keep all
vegetation removed so that it doesn't damage the liner.
Chairperson Wilcox — Anybody from the public want to make a comment? No...l
think we're all set. Thank you very much.
Chairperson Wilcox announces the next agenda item at 9:22 p.m.
UPDATE
Regarding revisions to the Westview Subdivision Stormwater Plan, located at
Schickel Road and Larisa Lane.
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 47
Chairperson Wilcox Dan before you start, there were some materials in front of us
when we arrived this evening which I am not sure everyone has had a chance to
look at this evening.
Dan Walker, Director of Engineering
A little history of Westview subdivision which you approved December 7, 2004, The
Phase I utilities and all that work, which include the Kingsway water improvement,
the sewer extension on Danby Road, the first section of the Schickel Road sewer
and Phase I of the Larissa Lane water and sewer mains were all built in the summer
or spring and summer of 2005. The construction of Phase I portion is 800 feet of the
road, included the storm drainage, which is the roadside swales that were shown on
the plans, catch basins and storm drains. There was some modifications to the
plans from the original plan that had open ditches and then went to enclosed storm
drains, which wasn't really shown on the original plans but that was part of the
approval of the final utility plans by the Town Engineer that's always thrown in to
these approvals. And this was a subdivision approval not a site plan approval.
The road is actually completed to the binder portion and then the Town Board
accepted the road in September 12th and then, due to a whole lot of legal holdups
and transfers and everything... We finally got two buildings with certificates of
occupancy in 2006. With getting all the deeds and easements that were conditions
of the subdivision approval.
Building permits were issued for 5 lots after the road was accepted. The lots 1,3,
and 4 are on the section between Larissa Lane and Danby Road, which I didn't
remember that, and lots 23 and 24 were on the left side of Larissa Lane going in
from Schickel Road. Now part of the issuance of the building permits, all the grading
plans are approved, reviewed and approved, before you get a building permit on this
specific site, because the stormwater management volumes have to be met for each
lot. So we look at the house location, the yard grading, the dry swale configurations,
which looks at the required storage volumes and also the outlet locations. The
grading and drainage plans in all these lots have been minimized, have been
adjusted somewhat to minimize the impact on trees and vegetation, so on the map
in front of you, shows lot 23 1 believe...
Chairperson Wilcox — Which map are you looking at? (Dan indicates which map to
the Board)
Mr. Walker — If you look at the other map, you can see lots 1,2,3,4,5, 23,and 24 were
all in Phase I,....
Chairperson Wilcox —Slow down Dan, What is this? (Chairperson Wilcox holds up
the hand out map)
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 48
Mr. Walker — That is a very poor copy. That is a detailed grading plan for lot 23 and
for lot 24, showing the locations of the stormwater storage areas.
Ms. Balestra — Which are .in blue, right?
Mr. Walker — Those are the blue, yeah those are the contours, and that shows the
appropriate, they have been confirmed to be of the appropriate size by the design
engineer and certified that they're the appropriate size ... we checked the quantities...
Chairperson Wilcox — I thought I was color blind, but we see...
Mr. Walker — They are very, very light... apparently our toner was running out when
we made these.
Ms. Balestra — The color printer is not doing that great these days.
Mr. Walker — So, if you look at the original subdivision map, you can see that on lots
23 and 24, lots 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 there were representations of a stormwater dry
swale.
Ms. Balestra — This is map RWD 1 ... the original drainage.
Mr. Walker — And if you look at lots 1 and 2, there's not a lot of detail on these. The
intention of this map is to show that there's a stormwater retarding structures, control
structure on each of those lots. And they have been built with stormwater control
structures on each of the lots. If you look at lot 1 and 2, those are shown right
adjacent to the road right -of -way. Those were shifted closer to the houses and
actually they had to be larger than that little slot, representing that there, because
that was, this is a very sketchy map, and they've actually been pulled further away
from Danby Road, they're along the contour of the existing topography and there's
actually a bigger buffer of trees now, between Danby Road and those stormwater
detentions.
Chairperson Wilcox — Can I cut you off? Why is what we approved not what's being
built?
Mr. Walker — It is being built.
Chairperson Wilcox — I've seen drainage swales on 23 and 24 then over here I see
some more little detention areas.
Mr. Walker — There are detention areas because the grading wouldn't work to make
the drainage swales work because once we got opened up the site, the water
patterns were coming down from a different area and to catch all the water, we
moved the locations of the...
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 49
Chairperson Wilcox — As I said, so what was approved is not what's being built. For
right or for wrong, its...
Mr. Walker — Yes, ...I look at this as a utility and the utility, the final utility plans are
never exactly the same when you see them on the subdivision plat. The subdivision
has not changed. The lots are the same...
Chairperson Wilcox — Don't be defensive, we're just trying to understand.
Mr. Walker — Well, I was attacked once by this so I am defensive....
Chairperson Wilcox — We may attack later, but right now we're just trying to
understand. I .
Mr. Walker — I feel it has not been changed. It is normal for subdivisions to have
modifications to some of the utilities and the storm drainage, very often, is modified
as you go through it and you shift catch basins around, you relocate fire hydrants,
you do a lot of detail work after we review the final construction documents before
they're built.
Chairperson Wilcox — Should we have never approved the drainage that was
presented to us? (clapping from the audience)
Mr. Walker — The answer is no.
Chairperson Wilcox— Wait a minute, for the record, please be quiet, thank you. (to
the public) [laughter]
Mr. Walker — The intent of this, of this distributed water management systems on
individual lots is to control the runoff of each lot on each lot. And that's what's being
accomplished here.
Board Member Talty — So it's kind of, moving target slightly, you adapt as you go.
You have a premise of the whole concept of the plan, we approved the concept of
the plan, but once you get out there in the field, it's not exactly how it was, slight
modifications have to be done, right?
Mr. Walker — Yes. And that happens with utilities all the time.
Chairperson Wilcox — I'm not, I'm not ... are they slight? I don't know whether these
are slight....
Mr. Walker - I feel they are slight and are within the normal approval purview of the
Town Engineer as we go through the utility plan approvals.
Chairperson Wilcox — Okay, now, I'm sure there is a slightly different opinion here.
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 50
Mr. Kanter — Well, we may get to that later.. Right now all I'm going to say is that one
of the reasons for these discrepancies on so many of the lots so far is because we
really didn't have an overall drainage solution. We had these swales that were
supposed to function to collect, to you know, serve as the retention and filter in areas
for the whole subdivision. And that's what you need when you do a subdivision
approval, is a solution to collect, retain and filter the water from the whole
.subdivision. It doesn't look like that happened here. And that's...) think whatever
we decide with this particular one, this is history, probably could be a lesson to serve
over how we should do future subdivisions.
Chairperson Wilcox - Which is one of the reasons I ... when I found out about this, I
wanted it on the agenda.
Mr. Walker — Well this is, this is not one of the ponds that was a standard practice in
the DEC handbook. The diversion swales and filtration is a practice in the DEC
handbook.
Chairperson Wilcox — Was there some aspect of this, that if I remember, because I
talked to you briefly, I talked to Jonathan briefly, was there some aspect of the
drainage which was not approved? Which required governmental approval which
did, which the developer did not receive?
Mr. Walker— I don't know. I've never had a rejection from.DEC saying I was not
approved.
Chairperson Wilcox — Okay, so the changes...
Mr. Walker -- And I've never had a letter saying it was approved.
Chairperson Wilcox — So the changes that we are seeing result from ... result from
the fact that we were presented with a solution to the drainage problem, which on
paper was sufficient to you, in your expert opinion [yes] , we relied on that opinion,
but now that they're out on the site, there are problems with it and we're seeing
these little detention areas that...
Mr. Walker — The stormwater management report, was based on storing a certain
volume of water in those diversions, those dry swales, and filtering the water through
drainage systems. And those volumes have been installed.
Chairperson Wilcox — In you're note you said "under compliance with SWPPP. Has
required significant effort to convince builder to maintain sediment and erosion
control measures."
Mr. Walker — Right.
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20107 Page 51
Chairperson Wilcox — What does that mean?
Mr. Walker - That means he doesn't always...
Ms. Balestra — Boris.
Mr. Walker — That means that we have to stay right on top of him to make sure he
maintains the silt fences, cleans out the check dams, he's ... just like a lot of other
contractors, it takes a lot of work, and in this particular case, its been very hard to
train him.
Chairperson Wilcox — And that's good information to know. Next time Boris shows
up before this Board, that's very good information.
Mr. Walker — Very good information, yes. We knew we ... we had some thank you
notes from other towns.
Board Member Thayer — Do I detect that the neighbors are having a problem, from
what we heard out here?
Mr. Walker — There have been some problems with the road conditions. Some of
that was the road condition was in poor shape but there's a lot of heavy traffic on it
and:..
Board Member Talty — 96B or Shickel? Which road?
Mr. Walker — Schickel Road.
Chairperson Wilcox — Does anyone want to speak?
Tessa Flores, 154 Compton Road
I was concerned when this project was first proposed because knowing how wet that
land is, it did seem that this could be a problem and it appears to be. I drive through
it periodically to see how things are going and the drainage ditches have been pretty
full of water. I talked with Dan about this today, and there may be reasons why that
is but, just what I've seen is that they've remained frequently full of water and tend to
accumulate a lot of garbage and water tends to ... and this is part of a plan, that the
water fills up on the lawn and is just so very, very wet in the summer when it rained
and it was a wet summer, there was just a lot of water everywhere and I drove there
today and I did not notice the new ... What I expected to see, like ditches behind the
houses that are closer to 96B ... But maybe I...
Mr. Walker — Well, I was up there again today, too and with the snow powder it's
hard to see. They're not real deep, there's about a 2 -foot berm that goes around a
fairly flat area and they're fairly good sized in area, probably 30 feet, 40 feet across
and 50 feet long...
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 52
Ms. Flores — Well I'll keep looking for them.
Mr. Walker — Yeah, they're behind ... On lot 1 it's just below the house, on lot 2....in
lot 3, they're rotated a little bit from this direction here but you can see a clear area
behind that between...
Ms. Flores — So they would run parallel to 96B and do they all, is it one long line of
ditch or is it just a small one behind each house?
Mr. Walker— There are several....
Ms. Flores — I'll take a closer look. The ditches themselves are very unattractive.
The stone is ugly and they're big and they fill with garbage.
Chairperson Wilcox — Did you contact Dan independently? A coincidence with
tonight's agenda item? Okay.
Ms. Flores — I saw the agenda item so I was in the Planning Board this afternoon
and I wish the materials had been ready when I was there, but they weren't, so,
didn't see them.
Mr. Walker — That's one of the maintenance issues is that there's large sediment
traps or large ditches with the roadside dry swales that are listed on here, have been
installed and there's a large amount of crushed stone and drainage pipes
underneath there and as we were talking with the engineer for Evan's project, he
was talking about how you can use crushed stone but it takes a lot more, it doesn't
hold as much water and basically that's what we have there. The problem there,
again, has been a maintenance issue that we have a hard time working with the
developer on. When silt comes in it plugs up the holes and the water can't sink
down into that so they have got to be maintained during the construction process
and that's where we have been ... He goes and cleans them out and then doesn't
clean them out after the next storm and we have to go back and remind him again.
Board Member Conneman — But why do we have to, remind him? Is there no
recourse that to require him to do that?
Mr. Walker — He doesn't get building inspections if he doesn't have them
operational, we shut down the building process, basically.
Board Member Conneman — Okay, do it.
Board Member Hoffmann — And that doesn't help?
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 53
Mr. Walker — It does, it gets his attention. Especially when he is getting close to a
closing and wants to sell a house, we get his attention that way, and that is very
typical of a lot of projects.
Board Member Talty — Are there any, I haven't been up there in a while, the houses
that are built, is there any water in the basements?
Mr. Walker — Of the new houses?
Board Member Talty —Yeah,
Mr. Walker — No one has complained to me. They just sold, there are two houses, I
believe, that are occupied and actually the design of the houses and the foundation
drains, he's done a very good job on foundation drainage and the basement levels
are not low, that's one reason they graded the houses to be higher so the water
drains away from the houses and then into this detention areas. One resident on the
lot 23 complained that there was water in her yard for a day after it rained real hard
and we had to explain to her that's what is supposed to happen.
Chairperson Wilcox — No one told the owner that that...
Mr. Walker — It's in their deeds.
Chairperson Wilcox — She didn't realize that that was a water....
Mr. Walker — That's one of the things with this type of a structure. You kind of give
them a manual and tell them this is how it's suppose to operate and we're...
Board Member Conneman — But is that in the deed that says you're going to have
water in your front yard when it rains?
Mr. Walker — It talks about maintaining the stormwater management structures and
their designed to fill up with water during a heavy rainstorm and then slowly drain
into an underground drain.
Board Member Conneman — And it says that in the deed?
Mr. Walker — Yes.
Board Member Talty — I think we were pretty clear on that if I remember.
Mr. Walker — I don't know if the deed says specifically that you are going to have
water for a period of time but it's a drain structure and it has to be maintained the
way it was built.
Chairperson Wilcox — And that you can't plant anything there, that you can't..
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 54
Mr. Walker — That you can't plant grass over it you can't plant trees, you can plant
trees around it but not in it.
Chairperson Wilcox —You can't fill it in...
Board Member Thayer — It's up to the homeowner now to maintain it...
Mr. Walker — Right, and it's up to us to enforce it. So it's going to be a pretty
interesting process. And the other option would be to build a big pond at the bottom
of the site and collect all of the water there and then discharge it and that has other
ramifications as to who maintains that ... Does the Town maintain the whole thing?
Right now our agreements with each of the owners is that if they don't do it, we'll
come in and take care of it, but then they're going to get a bill and then if they don't
pay the bill we put it on their taxes. And we've got the legal authority to do that.
This whole stormwater stuff is getting complicated and as we get into adopting a
stormwater management ordinance, these things will be more clearly spelt out.
Board Member Thayer — How do you clean the silt out of all that riprap? I assume
that's what you mean by maintain it.
Mr. Walker — There isn't a lot of riprap. With the riprap that's there are actually
check dams that are temporary structures that are in there during the construction
process to prevent the ditch from eroding and then trapping some of the silt that
comes from up above.
Board Member Thayer — So what do you have to do to maintain it?
Mr. Walker — You have a backhoe or a grade all and you go in there and you scrape
it out. Or you go in there with a lot of rakes and shovels.
Board Member Thayer — So it's not something that you do with a shovel then...
Mr. Walker — You could do it with a shovel but I mean, if you've got a ditch that's 300
feet long and 10 feet wide:...
Board Member Talty — So are those the sticks that we see with the black...
Mr. Walker — Silt fence are the black, and that was part of the problem, you know,
you put a silt fence up, you put these sticks in the ground, you got this black fabric
with daylight underneath it ... that doesn't work, we had ... You did a trench, you bury
the loose end of the fabric and then when it rains hard and silt accumulates, you
gotta go in, you gotta clean it up. If they fall over you gotta go clean them out and
set them up again so there is a constant monitoring process there.
Chairperson Wilcox — That's good to know.
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 55
Mr. Walker — So we're..
Chairperson Wilcox _ The other question is that should we have approved this
drainage...
Board Member Hoffmann — I was going to ask that.,. now what were the mistakes
that we made on the Planning Board? Because it wasn't quite clear to me and what
is it we have to look out for in the future?
Mr. Walker — Okay, I..'This system can work, it will work ... I mean, its', I've done this,
years ago I did this on.farms a lot to control erosion and control runoff, potato fields
and things like that with tile outlet diversions, we called them. We build. a berm, it
would rain hard, the water would settle out and then we'd pipe it out underground
and it was excellent practice, a little expensive for some of the farmers but it was an
excellent practice. The problem here is that you are starting at the bottom of the
watershed and you are working your way up. There is a lot of water coming off this
site. There's always been water coming off this site and we got into a couple of
drainage channels, especially on Lot 23 where there was a lot more water coming
down and the diversions on 21 and 26 weren't in place yet and they're still not in
place. Phase II of Larissa Lane which goes from Lot 6 up to Lot 12, is, the road's
been roughed out, the utilities have been, are in the process of being installed, I
don't know exactly how far we've got because of the weather got a little bit bad up
there, so they put the water.and sewer utilities in, they haven't done all of the storm
drainage yet. They've got silt fence up in that area to protect the ...erosion
measures. But, we are going to be going in and as he's developing these, this next
phase, those are not going to wait until he gets a building permit application, we are
going to have him build those diversions before he gets to that stage so that they
can get established and they can ... That's one of the things that we on the
enforcement end have to do, is to have him to do that. Install those structures.
Chairperson Wilcox — Chris, did you raise your hand?
Ms. Balestra — I just wanted to ... you have in front of you, in addition to those other
maps, map #2 of the Westview subdivision which shows the trees that are supposed
to be maintained for some of the lots, the additional setbacks that are above and
beyond what we would normally request. Because of some of the tree preservation,
I know that we talked a lot about.this, because it's such a wet site, well, I think
another reason why the original drainage plan may not be a good idea for this
parcel, which we know now, or, is because ... I'm not sure that we can be sure that
the tree preservation guidelines and the yard depths can be adhered to, now that the
swales need to be different, larger, different locations.
Chairperson Wilcox — Because instead of a linear detention.area we now have a
more rounded, two- dimensional if you will, detention area.
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 56
Ms. Balestra — Hmmm, so there is the potential for additional tree loss.
Mr. Walker — If you look on that map, on Lot #1, the detention area is in that
buildable area, on Lot #2 it's also in the buildable area...
Ms. Balestra — Right, specifically I am referring to Lot 6 — 9, 25 — 28...
Mr. Walker — Six through nine do not get detention ponds on them.
Ms. Balestra — Just want to make sure.
Mr. Walker — Because that's ... the storage for there is included in the main road ditch
system. Lots 26 and 27 and 29 will have structures on them and you will. notice
those are in areas with the lighter vegetations.
Ms. Balestra — Right.
Mr. Walker — And you ought to go up there and see the vegetation sometimes. It's
pretty sad to see scotch pine trees that are 60 feet tall and at the end of their lives
with little tiny tops on them and the rest of the vegetation, areas that haven't been
touched by the contractor are just dying.
Ms. Balestra — That's true. There is also some deciduous trees and there's also
some other first and succession growth which would take in more water than lawn.
Board Member Hoffmann — And why do you think those trees are dying?
Mr. Walker — They've reached the end of their life.
Board Member Hoffmann —Okay, so it's not because it's too wet for them...
Mr. Walker — Well, it is wet up there too, but Scotch pine are not a real long live tree.
Chairperson Wilcox —The lesson we learn
to this to be careful .
is the next time we see something similar
Board Member Talty — I think what Dan is saying is he's building upstream. He's
going this way. So I know he can't start up here maybe because of costs or
whatever in trying to build down but...
Mr. Walekr — Yeah, well you gotta build your road in and the ... Part of the problem is
that we were trying. to, there shouldn't be excess runoff from that upper area but
there is a lot of runoff coming off of that site naturally.
Board Member. Talty — So is he going to run into the same problems with stage 2?
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 57
Mr. Walker— With Phase II we are changing direction, we've been talking to him
about it. We have to build the stormwater structures first, so, before...On the lower
ones as he was getting building permits we did the. grading plans and got those
sites.. We're going to get 26, 27, and 29 and Lot 10 in place before he gets any
building permits in that area.
Chairperson Wilcox — So that drainage is in place.
Mr. Walker — So that drainage is in place first.
Board Member Thayer — And that should help the lower lots then.
Mr. Walker — Yup. Part of the problem is that that diversion ditch on 26 wasn't there
so all that water went down into 23 and 24.
Chairperson Wilcox — Yes Jon.
Mr. Kanter — I guess I also have kind of a philosophical difference with the way Dan
was describing the equivalence of the utility plan with the drainage plan, and that is,
with the utility plan you are supposed to have your sewer main, you know, exactly
speced out and placed, your water line that's serving the whole development and
then yeah, you might have some minor variations with how each lot hooks up to it.
The difference with the drainage system is you should have and we don't really have
with this, an overall drainage plan that will work for the whole site and then yes, you
can have some minor modifications for how each lot ties into the drainage plan. In
this case though, each lot is it's own drainage plan. And so you can't really say that
a little massaging of this lot here, you know, isn't going to change the overall
drainage plan because it is. So yeah, you might have the same volume of storage in
these, the lots that are on this color faded one, Lot 23, with totally different
configurations and if that ends up happening on more lots, the cumulative effect of
all those changes is going to be a totally different drainage system. It may have the
same volume, yeah, I'm not questioning that, but it will be a different drainage plan
to what this Board approved as an overall drainage plan. That's...
Mr. Walker — But not the way we're looking at these .though.
Mr. Kanter — Well, I would say we don't know that yet.
Mr. Walker — Yes we do, because...
Mr. Kanter — No we don't because that's why we're here.
Chairperson Wilcox — Guys,....
Mr. Walker — I am the professional engineer on the job and I am watching these
projects. All those lots are draining into the detention areas. The amount of area
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 58
that is going to drain into the detention areas is the same as it shows on this plan.
The lots are graded to drain to those storage areas.
Chairperson Wilcox —So the Engineer is saying it's working the Planner is saying
that we don't have a good plan, even though it might be working...
Mr. Kanter — I'm saying that I don't know that the end of the story is going to be what
it sounds like is being said here. Because there is not, unless you're following an
overall basic plan that you started off with, you may end up with something different.
So it's fine to hear our Engineer say well no, it's gonna be okay. It's another thing to'
say well, this is, you know, something that's reached a level that the Board should
know about and make some decisions about.
Chairperson Wilcox = Engineer's have a perspective and Planners have a.
perspective.
Board Member Talty — So Dan, if we had it to do over again, would you change your
professional opinion on how we should go about, and maybe articulate it towards
what Jonathan is saying?
Mr. Walker — I would probably do what I am asking the developer to do. now, is get
the drainage plans in first, and the stormwater stuff in first and that's the problem in
doing things in phases because to really do this whole thing, because these are, its
not at the bottom of the site, I firmly believe that it is better to stop the increase in
runoff before it accumulates. If we do a distributative process and things like rain
gardens, other water features ... I don't know, did I show that, no that was the Town
Board I showed that project to. ..lf you can hold the water on the lots and not let it
runoff and become a bigger problem, I think that's a better way to deal with it than
collecting it all and then running it out: Now we could have said, okay, Lots 1 and 2
are history, you're gonna put in huge pond in there. Of course, at the last Town
Board meeting we talked about ponds and said no more ponds in the Town, which is
another issue.
Board Member Conneman - Should we build on wet land, as wet as this?
Seriously, it seems to me that's stupid.
Board Member Talty — But the whole Town is on a hill, right. The whole Town is on
a hill.
Mr. Walker — We have this same question, no one could live in the Northeast. If that
was the question, you wouldn't.have a house today. Okay.
Chairperson Wilcox — You talking about cigarette alley?
Mr. Walker — I'm talking about cigarette alley, Muriel Street, everything. And all the
way down through there, it was all wetlands. Same as this.
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 59
Board Member Conneman — I don't want to go there.
Board Member Talty — We're in Ithaca... everything goes like this...
Board Member Conneman — If that's true,
Lucente? I don't understand.
why do we approve anything more for Mr.
Mr. Kanter — That's another question you'll have to....
Chairperson Wilcox — That's a different discussion. We're not going there tonight.
Chairperson Wilcox announces the next agenda item at 9:58 p.m.
Presentation and discussion regarding the 2006 Planning Department Annual
Report.
Jonathan what do you want to do with your presentation? Do you want to defer it to
the next meeting or do you want to rush through it?
Mr. Kanter — Well I don't want to defer it to the next meeting and I don't really need
to rush through it because normally all I'll do is...
Chairperson Wilcox — Normally you spend 20 minutes telling us about how great
your staff...
Mr. Kanter — No, no, no ... If you recall, the last couple of times I think we've done it in
about less than 3 minutes, which is, that's probably a good time frame to speak for.
So this. is our annual .report. It's got the normal detail in it that you are used to
seeing. It's got all the summaries of the Planning Board actions in particular that we
like to bring to your attention. It's always good to take a look back and see how
many things we've been working on and this year's been a pretty busy one.
The other thing it helps Planning Board members I think is all the other things we
actually do outside of this circle and you know, the Codes and Ordinances
Committee, some or which you see. We've taken on the responsibilities of the
Zoning Board administration and. that's taken quite a bit of time. And then all the
numbers of the actual approvals. They go into each monthly report, but it's always
nice to summarize them up at the end of the year.
But this year, probably the thing to focus on the most is what's coming up for the
coming year. And of course our big project and priority is the Comprehensive Plan
review. And so we are really looking forward to that. That is really going to be our
highest priority for this coming year. It will be interesting to see what the Town
Board decides to do with it. This first year will really be the review of the Plan and
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 60
figuring out what to do with the Plan and if they decide to do a. full update, that could
be a 2 or 3 year project so, we'll see how that goes.
The Codes Committee is still working on a number of items that they've been
working on for several years now, including the stream setback walk, hopefully the
Coy Glen conservation zone will be coming up soon.
We just about are done with the dock regulation revision. We finished, we basically
finished the review and analysis and drafted up revisions and Chris worked really
hard on that. We're hoping to send that to a number of organizations like the Water
Resources Council which is actually interested in trying to do a coordinated kind of
ordinance for the whole. Cayuga Lake area. So, we'll see how that goes.
The Transportation Plan also took a lot of our time up and that's just about coming to
a conclusion. Got a lot of good comments from the public on it and we put that
together in another revised plan and that's going back to the Transportation
Committee at the end of this week, and hopefully will be back to the Town Board,
hopefully in about a month and a half or so.
So that's just a quick flavor of some of the things.
Board_MemberThayer — Why.do you occasionally waive the fee?
Mr. Kanter — For what?
Chairperson Wilcox — For like a site plan...
Board Member Thayer — There's 2. or 3 of them.
Mr. Kanter — They would typically be for things like if the development, if the
subdivision, for example, were primarily for purposes of say conveyance to the City
for open space purposes or watershed, that would be a typical one.
Chairperson Wilcox — That's what 2 of them are for. I don't know about the Raponi,
the Pennsylvannia one...
Mr. Kanter — I don't know. There was some engineering involvement in that one.
Mr. Walker — That was to get an easement for this water main, that we built.
Sometimes we waive the fees.
Chairperson Wilcox — thank you. Thank you.
Board Member Talty — So it's a trade off .
Board Member Thayer — Good job Jon. Excellent.
Planning Board Minutes -Final
2/20/07 Page 61
Chairperson Wilcox — Esther you are now a full time, permanent staff person?
Ms. Blodau - Konick — I am fulltime correct but not quite permanent. Temporary
fulltime.
Mr. Kanter — Temporary fulltime through mid May or maybe June or so.
Chairperson Wilcox — then you graduate or then you...
Ms. Blodau- Konick — No I have already graduated. I apply to continue my education
at the Masters level.
Chairperson Wilcox — I'm sorry I know that you graduated.
Mr. Kanter — And then of course we lost Nicole to TCAT who stole her from us and,
which is good for her career, but she's been working on a consulting basis to help us
finish up the Transportation Plan, so that's worked out pretty well.
So that's about it. (applause)
Chairperson Wilcox — I have said it publicly before, the Staff makes us look good.
Board Member Thayer — Yes they do.
Board Member Talty — So Jonathan, what's on board for next meeting.
Chairperson Wilcox announces the next agenda item at 10:05 p.m.
Approval of Minutes: February 6, 2007
Postponed.
Other Business
Training opportunities, Disclosure Statements needed, Next meeting agenda items
touched upon.
Adjournment
Upon motion made by Board Member Thayer, meeting was adjourned at 10:07 p.m.
Deputy Town Clerk
TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD
215 North Tioga Street
Ithaca, New York 14850
Tuesday February 20, 2007
AGENDA
7:00 P.M. Persons to be heard (no more than five minutes).
7:05 P.M. SEQR Determination: Campbell / Stratakos 2 -Lot Subdivision, 362 & 364 King Road West.
7:05 P.M. PUBLIC HEARING: Consideration of Preliminary and Final Subdivision approval for the proposed 2 -lot
subdivision (lot line modification) located at 362 and 364 King Road West, Town of Ithaca Tax parcel No.'s
35 -2 -6.1 and 35 -2 -7, Low Density Residential Zone. The proposal involves subdividing a +/- 0.108 acre
triangular parcel of land from the southern edge of 362 King Road West, which will then be consolidated
with 364 King Road West. Peter & Christine Stratakos and Karen A. Campbell, Owners /Applicants;
Orlando Turco, Agent.
7:15 P.M. Update and informal review regarding the proposed College Crossings Development located on the northeast
corner of Danby Road (NYS Route 96B) and East King Road intersection, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No.
43- 1 -3.2, Neighborhood Commercial and Low Density Residential Zones. The proposal is for, a +/- 22,000
gross square foot building to accommodate up to eleven tenants for new retail, commercial, and office space.
The project will also include 105 +/- parking spaces, landscaping, lighting, stormwater facilities, sidewalks,
and a new walkway connection to the College Circle Apartments. Evan N. Mohkemeyer, Owner /Applicant,
Scott L. Freeman, Keplinger Freeman Associates and James M. Kerrigan, Attomey,'Agents.
8:00 P.M. Consideration of a sketch plan for the proposed improvements to the Cornell University Utilities Department
Service Yard located between Maple Avenue and Dryden Road (NYS Route 366) around the Central Heating
Plant, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No.'s 63- 1 -8.1, 63- 1 -8.2,. and 63 -1 -5, Light Industrial and Low Density
Residential Zones. The proposal involves improving an existing oil tank, expansion and reconfiguration of
the existing Cornell Maple Avenue substation, replacement of the existing coal conveyor with a new covered
coal conveyor, installation of a new coal off - loading structure, and the reconfiguration and upgrading of the
existing service roadways. Cornell University, Owner /Applicant; Steve Beyers, Agent. An overview of the
future. Cornell University Combined Heat and Power Project and the Cornell University Gas Line Project
will also be discussed.
8:30 P.M. Update regarding revisions to the Westview Subdivision stormwater plan, located at Schickel Road and
Larisa Lane. Dan Walker, Director of Engineering.
7. Presentation and discussion regarding the 2006 Planning Department Annual Report.
8. Persons to be heard (continued from beginning of meeting if necessary).
9. Approval of Minutes: February 6, 2007.
10, Other Business:
11. Adjournment.
Jonathan Kanter, AICP
Director of Planning
273 -1747
NOTE: IF ANY MEMBER OF THE PLANNING BOARD IS UNABLE TO ATTEND, PLEASE NOTIFY
SANDY POLCE AT 273 -1747.
(A quorum of four (4) members is necessary to conduct Planning Board business.)
TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD
NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARINGS
Tuesday February 20, 2007
By direction of the Chairperson of the Planning Board, NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that Public Hearings
will be held by the Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca on Tuesday, February 20, 2007, at 215 North Tioga
Street, Ithaca, N.Y., at the following times and on the following matters:
7:05 P.M. Consideration of Preliminary and Final Subdivision approval for the proposed 2 -lot
subdivision (lot line modification) located at 362 and 364 King Road West, Town of
Ithaca Tax parcel No.'s 35 -2 -6.1 and 35 -2 -7, Low Density Residential Zone. The
proposal involves subdividing a +/- 0.108 acre triangular parcel of land from the southern
edge of 362 King Road West, which will then be consolidated with 364 King Road West.
Peter & Christine Stratakos and Karen A. Campbell, Owners /Applicants; Orlando Turco,
Agent.
Said Planning Board will at said times and said place hear all persons in support of such matters or objections
thereto. Persons may appear by agent or in person. Individuals with visual impairments, hearing
impairments or other special needs, will be provided with assistance as necessary, upon request. Persons
desiring assistance must make such a request not less than 48 hours prior to the time of the public hearings.
Jonathan Kanter, AICP
Director of Planning
273 -1747
Dated: Monday, February 12, 2007
Publish: Wednesday, February 14, 2007
TOWN OF ITHIACAr ::
PLANNING BOARD' E
NOTICLOF
Pl[BLIC'HEARINGS
7C
February ' 20,'2007'.
By direction of the. Chair-
! will be held by the Planning;
Board of the,Town of Ithaca;
Ton Tuesday; February 20,
'.2007, at 2 "15;North Tioga
Street,.lthaca,':N:Y.;_at )he
'following times and =on :the
Nfollowing'matters_,.r: -" 11
7:05 P.M: Consideration:`
liof Preliminary; Aand ..Final
`Subdivisions aPPpp'roval`, for`
Ae• proposed._21ot subdivFi
;sion (lot, line modification -
4ocoted`af 362.;'aiid 362
sKinb Rood; West;. Town of,'
;;,Ithaca Taz'parcel N6.'s`35-
z2b }:and %35.2 -7, "Low Den
sity Residential Zone:' -The"
proposal in' lves`subdMC1'• Y 08 ,lingg d 0acre
friar
'ggulbr, parcel of• lancl%from'
the'.southern edge of. 362
iKing`Road,West, which° will
then .be_ consolidated 'witC
h364'.K.ingg Road;Wests Pe-;
.,ter 8" Christihe<" Stratdkosv:
Wand Karen, A:-. bell,'
:Owners /Applicants;, rlon-`'i
c o Turco;' gent
Said L Planrnng Board. will
at`- said. "times. and . "said;
3ntriro:6onr`'nll: nnrenn.ii6 %•
vith assistance=asneces'sd-
yy"upon `request. cl?erscns?
lesir q'. cissisionce, must- +'
lake such.,a'request.;not.
ass thon'48'hours`priorto
ie .'time.: of 46 'public:
Jonathan- Kenter;'AICP,
Drrecfor -of Planningg
s - :273�1747;'�
tafed:`M'onday;_ ` =rr ' C
:February
'ublish:-Wednesdayy;
February 14;--2002
,, Wednesday,
:February 14;
20071
THE ITHACA JOURNAL '
TOWN OF ITHIACAr ::
PLANNING BOARD' E
NOTICLOF
Pl[BLIC'HEARINGS
7C
February ' 20,'2007'.
By direction of the. Chair-
! will be held by the Planning;
Board of the,Town of Ithaca;
Ton Tuesday; February 20,
'.2007, at 2 "15;North Tioga
Street,.lthaca,':N:Y.;_at )he
'following times and =on :the
Nfollowing'matters_,.r: -" 11
7:05 P.M: Consideration:`
liof Preliminary; Aand ..Final
`Subdivisions aPPpp'roval`, for`
Ae• proposed._21ot subdivFi
;sion (lot, line modification -
4ocoted`af 362.;'aiid 362
sKinb Rood; West;. Town of,'
;;,Ithaca Taz'parcel N6.'s`35-
z2b }:and %35.2 -7, "Low Den
sity Residential Zone:' -The"
proposal in' lves`subdMC1'• Y 08 ,lingg d 0acre
friar
'ggulbr, parcel of• lancl%from'
the'.southern edge of. 362
iKing`Road,West, which° will
then .be_ consolidated 'witC
h364'.K.ingg Road;Wests Pe-;
.,ter 8" Christihe<" Stratdkosv:
Wand Karen, A:-. bell,'
:Owners /Applicants;, rlon-`'i
c o Turco;' gent
Said L Planrnng Board. will
at`- said. "times. and . "said;
3ntriro:6onr`'nll: nnrenn.ii6 %•
vith assistance=asneces'sd-
yy"upon `request. cl?erscns?
lesir q'. cissisionce, must- +'
lake such.,a'request.;not.
ass thon'48'hours`priorto
ie .'time.: of 46 'public:
Jonathan- Kenter;'AICP,
Drrecfor -of Planningg
s - :273�1747;'�
tafed:`M'onday;_ ` =rr ' C
:February
'ublish:-Wednesdayy;
February 14;--2002
t
Town of Ithaca
Planning Board
215 North Tioga Street
February 20, 2007
7:00 p.m.
PLEASE SIGN -IN
Please Print Clearly, Thank You
Name
�D
a
Address
n"
cq�� /Z ej C C L'
13y �C1��
TOWN OF ITHACA
AFFIDAVIT OF POSTING AND PUBLICATION
I, Sandra Polce, being duly sworn, depose and say that I am a Senior Typist for the Town of
Ithaca, Tompkins County, New York; that the following Notice has been duly posted on the sign
board of the Town of Ithaca and that said Notice has been duly published in. the local newspaper,
The Ithaca Journal.
Notice of Public Hearings to be held by the Town of Ithaca Planning Board in the Town of Ithaca
Town Hall 215 North Tioga Street Ithaca New York on Tuesday February 20, 2007
commencing, at 7:00 P.M., as per attached.
Location of Sign Board used for Posting: Town Clerk Sign Board — 215 North Tioga Street.
Date of Posting:
Date of Publication:
February 12, 2007
February 14, 2007
Sandra Polce, Senior Typist
Town of Ithaca
STATE ORNEW YORK) . SS:
COUNTY OF TOMPKINS)
Sworn to arRd subscribed before me this 14'h day of February 2007,
Notary Public
PAULETTE NEILSEN
!rotary Public, State of Now Yqk
No. 01 NE6156809
Oualified In Tioga County
C MM1sslon Expires December +, 90 jL