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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB Minutes 2007-01-16FILE DATE REGULAR MEETING TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD TUESDAY, JANUARY 16, 2007 215 NORTH TIOGA STREET, ITHACA NY 14850 7:00 p.m. PRESENT Chairperson Fred Wilcox; Board Members: George Conneman, Eva Hoffmann, Rod Howe, Kevin Talty and Larry Thayer STAFF Jonathan Kanter, Director of Planning; Daniel Walker, Director of Engineering; Christine Balestra, Planner; Mike Smith, Planner; Susan Brock, Attorney for the Town; Paulette Neilsen, Deputy Town Clerk. OTHERS PRESENT Stephen and Marian Rogers, Coddington Road; Rick Couture, Ithaca College; Troy Sherrard, Moody Nolans, Inc.; Mariette Geldenhuys, 200 East Buffalo St.; Sue Cosley, Westview Lane; Warren Allmon, PRI, Trumansburg Road; Rich DePaulo, Northview Road, Rick Light, Westview Lane; Carl Sgrecci, Ithaca College; Dave Herrick, TG Miller Engineering; Rick Couture, Ithaca .College; Tim Schmalenberger, MSI, Columbus OH; CALL TO ORDER Chairperson Wilcox declares the meeting duly opened at 7:02 p.m., and accepts for the record Secretary's Affidavit of Posting and Publication of the Notice of Public Hearings in Town Hall and the Ithaca Journal on January 8, 2007 and January 10, 2007 together with the properties under discussion, as appropriate, upon the Clerks of the City of Ithaca and the Town of Danby, upon the Tompkins County Commissioner of Planning, upon the Tompkins County Commissioner of Public Works, and upon the applicants and /or agents, as appropriate, on January 8, 2007. Chairperson Wilcox states the Fire Exit Regulations to those assembled, as required by the New York State Department of State, Office of Fire Prevention and Control. Chairperson Wilcox welcomes former Board Member Jim Ainslie in the audience and informs the audience that the Sketch Plan Review for the Ithaca College Athletic and Event Center scheduled for later this evening is not a public hearing but, nonetheless, the Planning Board has made it its practice to solicit input from the public as soon as possible and as early on as possible. Therefore, when the Board gets to that Agenda Item, which is scheduled for 7:45 p.m., after the applicants and their agents have made their presentation and the Board members have asked their questions, the Board will give the public a chance to speak. The Board will welcome the public's comments and suggestions on the proposed plan. The Planning Board will not take any action on the proposal tonight, this is simply an opportunity for the Planning Board to get a first look at the project. PB 1 -16 -07 Page 2 Chairperson Wilcox announces the next agenda item at 7:06 p.m. PERSONS TO BE HEARD Chairperson Wilcox invites the public to address the Board on a topic or concern that is not on the Agenda. There was no one wishing to speak at this time. Chairperson Wilcox announces the next agenda item at 7:07 p.m.. SEQR DETERMINATION Duffy 3 -Lot Subdivision, 1301 & 1305 Hanshaw Road Marriette Geldenhuys, Attorney for the Applicant 200 East Buffalo Street Very briefly, you would have all received, I assume, the subdivision map. We previously applied for subdivision of this currently 2- parcel into 3 different parcels and we are back before the Board tonight because we have reconfigured the subdivision. Previously it was configured in a way where we would nave needed a zoning variance because the garage that is now shown on Parcel A was on a separate parcel from the house so it was an accessory building, a free - standing accessory building, which required a zoning variance. Also, in the previous configuration there would have had to been a shared driveway between two of the lots. So for those two reasons we have reconfigured the subdivision and we are back before you tonight asking you to approve it in its current. configuration. It creates, as you can see, Parcel C with 102 feet of frontage on Warren Road and then the lot line between Parcels A and B are adjusted and the: way it is configured now, it complies with all zoning and other regulations. We ask that you consider this and grant us approval to subdivide in this manner. Chairperson Wilcox -- Questions with regard to Environmental Review? Board Member Hoffmann — No question really, but a comment: I think 'it's too bad that there has to be another driveway created. It would have been nice if it had been possible to use the earlier configuration and sharing the driveway. Ms. Geldenhuys — Right: That was one of the goals of the earlier configuration but unfortunately, we then ran into the issues with zoning and it just wasn't possible to keep that configuration and still combine the garage and the house on one parcel. ADOPTED RESOLUTION: PB Resolution No. 2007 — 008 SEQR Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval Duffy 3 -Lot Subdivision (Modification) 1301 & 1305 Hanshaw Road Tax Parcels 70 -12 -1 & 70- 12 -2.2 Town of Ithaca Planning Board January 16, 2007 PB 1 -16 -07 Page 3 MOTION made by George Conneman, seconded by Larry Thayer, WHEREAS: 1. This is consideration of Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval for the proposed 3 -lot subdivision located at 1301 & 1305 Hanshaw Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcels 70 -12 -1 & 70- 12 -2.2, Medium Density Residential Zone. The proposal involves subdividing off the southern portions of the two existing lots to create one new +/- 1.381 -acre lot (Parcel C) located off Warren Road, and slightly shifting the original lot line between Parcels A ( +/- 0.762- acres) and B ( +/- 0.860- acres). This is a modification of the 3 -lot subdivision approved by the Board on June 20, 2006, with the proposal to now include the existing garage on Parcel A, in order to eliminate the need for a variance, and 2. This is an Unlisted Action for which the Town of Ithaca Planning Board is acting as Lead Agency in this uncoordinated environmental review with respect to Subdivision Approval, and 1. 3. The Planning Board on January 16, 2007, has reviewed and .accepted as adequate a Short Environmental Assessment. Form Part I, submitted by the applicant, and Part II prepared by the Town Planning staff, a survey map entitled "Survey Map Showing Lands of Donna & Gary Duffy Located on Hanshaw Rd. & Warren Rd, Town of Ithaca, Tompkins County, State of New York," prepared by T.G. Miller, P.C., Engineers & Surveyors, dated 1/23/2006 and revised 12/14/06, and other application materials, and 4. The Town planning staff has recommended a negative determination of environmental significance with respect to the proposed Subdivision Approval; NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED: That the Town of Ithaca Planning Board hereby makes a negative determination of environmental significance for the reasons set forth in the Environmental Assessment Form Part II referenced above, in accordance with the New York State Environmental Quality Review Act for the above referenced action as proposed, and, therefore, an Environmental Impact Statement will not be required. A vote on the motion resulted as follows: AYES: Wilcox, Hoffmann, Conneman, Thayer, Howe, and Talty. NAYS: None. The Motion was carried unanimously. PB 1 -16 -07 Page 4 Chairperson Wilcox announces the next agenda item at 7:09 p.m. PUBLIC HEARING Consideration of Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval for the proposed 3 -lot subdivision located at 1301 & 1305 Hanshaw Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No.'s 70 -12 -1 and 70- 12 -2.2, Medium Density Residential Zone. The proposal involves subdividing off the southern portions of the two existing lots to create one new +/- 1.381 -acre lot (Parcel C).located on Warren Road, and modifying the location of the lot line between Parcels A ( +/- 0.762- acres) and B ( +/- 0.860 - acres). Gary & Donna Duffy, Owners /Applicants. This is a modification of the 3 -lot subdivision approved by the Town of Ithaca Planning Board on June 20, 2006. The proposal has been slightly modified to now include the large garage on Parcel A, and therefore not requiring any variances. Chairperson Wilcox — Questions from the Board? There being none, Chairperson Wilcox opens the Public Hearing at 7:11 p.m. and invites the public to address the Board. There being no one, Chairperson Wilcox closes the Public Hearing at 7:11 p.m. Chairperson Wilcox — I too think it would have been nice to have prevented that additional curb -cut on Warren Road near the intersection. Nonetheless, there's no apparent issue with that second curb -cut being located near the. intersection assuming that the County does grant the curb -cut permit. Mr. Kanter — Yeah, the only thing that I think Sue mentioned in her memo is that there is a possibility of, being a residential zone, that there could be an institution, a church, or other use that's permitted by special permit in that zone, and if that's the case, then, the issue of access and traffic and number of vehicles entering and exiting the site would be part of the review for any proposal like that, something to keep in mind though. Board Member Hoffmann — But there's nothing we can do about that now. Two changes from the Attorney for the Town incorporated into the following resolution. ADOPTED RESOLUTION: PB Resolution No. 2007 - 009 Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval Duffy 3 -Lot Subdivision 1301 & 1305 Hanshaw Road Tax Parcels 70 -12 -1 & 70- 12 -2.2 Town of Ithaca Planning Board January 16, 2007 MOTION made by Rod Howe, seconded by Fred Wilcox. PB 1 -16 -07 Page S WHEREAS. 1. This is consideration of Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval for the proposed 3 -lot subdivision located at 1301 & 1305 Hanshaw Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcels 70 -12 -1 & 70- 12 -2.2, Medium Density Residential Zone. The proposal involves subdividing off the southern portions of the two existing lots to create one new +1- 1.381 -acre lot (Parcel C) located off Warren Road, and slightly shifting the original lot line between Parcels A ( +/- 0.762- acres) and B ( +/- 0.860 - acres). This is a modification of the 3dot subdivision approved by the Board on June 20, 2006, with the proposal to now include the existing garage on Parcel A, in order to eliminate the need for a variance, and 2. This is an Unlisted Action for which the Town of Ithaca Planning Board, acting as lead agency in environmental review with respect to Subdivision Approval, has on January 16, 2007, made a negative determination of environmental significance, after having reviewed and accepted as adequate a Short Environmental Assessment Form Part I, submitted by the applicant, and Part II prepared by the Town Planning staff, and 3. The Planning Board on January 16, 2007, has reviewed and accepted as adequate a Short Environmental Assessment Form Part I, submitted by the applicant, and Part II prepared by the Town Planning staff, a survey map entitled "Survey Map Showing Lands of Donna & Gary Duffy Located on Hanshaw Rd. & Warren Rd, Town of Ithaca, Tompkins County, State of New York," prepared by T.G. Miller, P.C., Engineers & Surveyors, dated 1/23/2006 and revised 12/14/06, and other application materials; NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED: 1. That the Town of Ithaca Planning Board hereby waives certain requirements for Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval, as shown on the Preliminary and Final Subdivision Checklists, having determined from the materials presented that such waiver will result in neither a significant alteration of the purpose of subdivision control nor the policies enunciated or implied by the Town Board, and 2. That the Planning Board hereby grants Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval for the proposed 3 -lot subdivision located at 1301 & 1305 Hanshaw Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcels 70 -12 -1 & 70- 12 -2.2, Medium Density Residential Zone, as shown on the survey map entitled "Survey Map Showing Lands of Donna & Gary Duffy Located on Hanshaw Rd. & Warren Rd, Town of Ithaca, Tompkins County, State of New York," prepared by T.G. Miller, P.C., Engineers & Surveyors, dated 1/23/2006 and revised 12/14/06, subject to the following conditions: PB 1 -16 -Q7 Page 6 a. Submission for signing by the Chairman of the Planning Board of an original or mylar copy of the final subdivision plat,. and three dark -lined prints, prior to filing with the Tompkins County Clerk's Office, and submission of a receipt of filing to the Town of Ithaca Planning Department, and b. Issuance of a curb -cut permit for Parcel C from th Highway Department prior to issuance of a building Parcel C. A vote on the motion resulted as follows: AYES: Wilcox, Hoffmann, Conneman, Thayer, Howe, and Talty NAYS: None. The Motion was carried unanimously. Tompkins County permit for Chairperson Wilcox announces the next agenda item at 7:15 p.m. PUBLIC HEARING Consideration of a Recommendation to the Town of Ithaca Town Board regarding a proposed local, law amending provisions in Chapter 270, Zoning, of the Town of Ithaca Code regarding Home Occupations. Chairperson Wilcox — A little background for members of the Board. This came to Codes and Ordinances in mid- November because Susan was at the Zoning Board, presumably in October, requesting permission to have a home occupation, but she was a renter, not an owner. Because of Susan, this matter went to the Codes and Ordinances Committee which referred out a change to Local Law to the Town Board, which forwarded to us for a recommendation. Having said that, with the background, go ahead. Susan C. Cosley, Westview Lane You summed up nicely. Chairperson Wilcox — Questions? Board Member Conneman — What kind of a sign are you going to put in connection with this business? Ms. Cosely — I may not even have a sign. If I do, it will be whatever is in compliance, I believe it's either 4- square feet or 6- square feet. Board Member Conneman — I have been looking at signs in the neighborhood, including Cayuga Heights, and on the Cayuga Heights school there...the ... private PB 1 -1b -07 Page 7 school....anyway, they have a sign on the fence that is so non - descript that you can't find the place. And I want to make the point that I think that, I'm not sure that we do signs, Jonathan, in this context, but it's possible to identify a business in a very discreet way. And that's one of the examples. I was going to take a picture for you but I didn't get around to it. Chairperson Wilcox — I remind the Board that what's before us is a recommendation for both Zoning amendment. I asked Susan to come up because she has been to all the Codes and Ordinance Committee meetings, she's been actively involved and I wanted to provide her with the opportunity to address the Board and I will certainly give the rest of the public a chance too, but she has been intimately involved. Board Member Conneman -- I have no objection to the other things here, but it seems to me that's one of the things ... There are some examples around of some very large signs in home businesses, of course some of them are in areas that you can do that, but... Chairperson Wilcox — I hate to quote the sign law, but it's a relatively small sign, 2x2 if I'm not mistaken. Mr. Kanter — Yes, in residential zones, other than institutions, and that type of use, it's 4- square feet. Board Member Thayer — I'm just surprised we've gone this far without having to change this. Chairperson Wilcox — Yeah, you wonder why it was there in the first place. Board Member Hoffmann — I have a couple of comments that came up when looked over this law again. Since I am on the Codes and Ordinances Committee I've seen it before too, but somehow, having let it sit for awhile and then coming back to it,, In the paper we got, which is the Local Law, not numbered yet, on the second page under point e., it says "there shall be no exterior display or sign except as permitted by this chapter. No exterior storage of materials, equipment, including commercial vehicles." and it made me wonder what's meant by that because a lot of businesses will have a little mini van or truck which has the name of the business on it. Are we saying that they cannot have that parked in their driveway. Because that would be a sign? Chairperson Wilcox — I think what we are saying is they can not store a vehicle on their lot. I'm drawing the difference between storing a vehicle and parking a vehicle in a lot. Board Member Hoffmann Well, is there such a distinction? And it continues "or other items of commerce and no other exterior indication of the home occupation or PB 1 -16 -07 Page 8 variation from the residential character of the lot, district or surrounding neighborhood." 1 just hadn't thought about that before and thought I'd bring it up. Chairperson Wilcox Is there any distinction between the plumber running a business out of his home who has his van with his parts parked in his driveway, let's say, from 5:00 at night til 8:00 the next morning and a residential house where he is visiting and his van is parked in the driveway and he's fixing the plumbing in the house at 9:00 in the morning? From my perspective, there's no difference. Board Member Hoffmann — Right. But if this is truly a home occupation,.if we are not talking about a plumber who goes to other people's houses to fix things, the person who has the home occupation would presumable have the car with the name of the business on it most of the day, because people might come there, as well as at night. Board Member Conneman — I don't know what the issue is but...it's Montessori School in Cayuga Heights ... You could park a big bus out there and that would be a big advertisement too. I mean that's ...that's the issue I think you're... Board Member Hoffmann — Anyway, if we are talking about signs and if we're talking about (inaudible) and including commercial vehicles shall not be there, then that's to me a little bit. ..it's a little uncertain to me what that means ... what it says here. Now, if I can go on to the second thing, under F, it says "no offensive noise, vibrations, smoke, dust, odor, glare or electronic disturbance shall be produced beyond the boundary line of the property occupied by the business. and we don't mention drainage at all here and it occurred to me.that there might be drainage from certain businesses, like I was, for instance, imagining somebody who makes textiles at home. Makes tie -dyed t -shirts and uses dyes and I don't know. if that would go out in that person's sink or if it might be poured outside in a ditch or what, but that might be a problem depending on what's in it and...l suppose people wouldn't have a photo lab at home anymore because photo's aren't done that way, but, that kind of business would have things that maybe would be draining out and could cause problems. In a typical business, I suppose there might be other ways of taking care of such drainage, but I don't know if it would be in a residential home. Also, if you have a dentist or a doctor or a veterinarian they might have a little laboratory in their house and also have chemicals or various kinds of medications and such that they might dispose of and could that possibly be a problem. We don't mention drainage at all as something that might come from a business on a residential lot and go beyond the boundaries but maybe we should think about that. Chairperson Wilcox — By drainage do you mean an outdoor movement of water? PB 1 -16 -47 Page 9 Board Member Hoffmann — Yeah. I can't imagine all kinds of businesses that might come up but it might be outdoors ... but it also might be what goes down the sink or the toilet and goes into our sewer system, perhaps inappropriately. Mr. Walker — We do have sewer use laws that prohibit the discharge of hazardous chemicals or anything like that. Board Member Hoffmann — Yeah, but would somebody who starts a home occupation, for instance a doctor who is allowed or a dentist or a textile dyer or some other kind of dyer for that matter, somebody who paints and uses various chemicals, would they know, necessarily, about such laws? If they are allowed to have their own business via this law. As a right. Mr. Walker — Well the law is addressed in the Town Code so it's definitely public knowledge so whether they are aware of it or not it becomes a problem and it becomes detected as a problem, then we would cite them and you would have to deal with the illegal discharge. Chairperson Wilcox — No different than a homeowner that sets up shop in a separate structure, for example. Mr. Walker — Right. I mean it's just not identified, necessarily as a separate structure although if it was a home occupation and it had an identifying sign there are issues about cross contamination of the water system too. that if we found an occupancy that say had a photo lab in the building; which a private person could have it as a hobby, so it really isn't ...I don't think it's a high hazard, I mean if somebody is processing 200 gallons of hazardous chemicals a week as part of their home occupation, you might want to send the sheriff over because they might not be doing something legal, but, I think that would become evident, if we had high volumes like that. If it's small chemical volumes, I don't think that's an issue. Board Member Hoffmann — Well, I guess my point is, should we say something in f about discharge or drainage in addition to the other ones? Mr. Walker — I don't think it's necessary because our sewer use law is to tell people what they can and can not put into the sewer system and a home occupation would not be of the scale where it would really be industrial scale. If we noticed problems in the sewer system, we would track it back to the source. I think there are regulations already in place that deal with that issue. Now, correct me, if it's a home occupation they have no need...do they have to come in for a variance most of the time? Mr. Kanter — No, not if they meet these criteria. In fact, they no longer would have to get any approvals from the Town. PB 1 -16 -07 Page 10 Mr. Walker — I'm sure with the number of home occupations that exist in the Town today, we probably are only aware of the tip of the iceberg but I think our current rules and regulations for the sanitary system and the water system are covering things adequately. Board Member Hoffmann — Does anyone else have any worry about this? Chairperson Wilcox — No. Board Member Thayer — I think Dan has covered it. Board Member Talty — Actually, I have a couple of comments. I don't like words like "normally". For example; in g where it says "the business shall not generate traffic in any greater volume than would normally be expected." Normally to me and normally to you are two different types of normal. So I don't particularly like that verbiage. And also, you could have a traffic study on a new development and it may increase or decrease as time goes on, so what is normal at that point? Is normal when the traffic study was done or is normal as it is today? So that's what I bring up. And, also, I had a question, a legality question, with regards to the landlord, if he enters into an agreement with someone who comes in who is employed in a more traditional manner off -site of the property and then they decided to open up their own business on -site, where they are currently renting...Does that mean that the landlord is now held responsible for any activities that their renter is now pursuing? And, does the landlord have the right to say no and thereby is he involving himself in any type of lawsuit or anything? That was my question. Ms. Brock — Well, for the latter question, if the tenant is proposing to do something that is not allowed by the zoning then the landlord certainly has the right to... Board Member Talty. — Well, but if it is allowed, they cover all the points that are being... Ms. Brock — But it's not a home occupation anymore ... it's still a home occupation? Board Member Talty — I'm saying that the person is currently renting under a 12- month lease, say they're into the 3r" month of the lease and they are working in a more traditional position off -site, where they live and now they get laid off or they decided to be entrepreneurial and they bring it to their current abode, would they be able to open their own business if they qualify but what happens, in that case, if the landlord says no, I don't want.any home...) don't want any home business on my property? Ms. Brock — That would be a matter between the landlord and the tenant and they would have to look at the terms of the lease to see if it prohibits that or not. PB 1 -16 -07 Page 11 Board. Member Talty — Okay. Ms. Brock -- So the Town wouldn't be involved in that. That would be a matter for them to work out among themselves and hopefully that lease would have addressed that situation. Chairperson Wilcox — This situation came up and the landlord still has the right, under the lease agreement, to say no. Board Member Hoffmann -- This was brought up in Jon Kanter's memo on the second page too. Board Member Talty — Well from the position of being a landlord, which I am, I mean that is the first thing that I am thinking. I don't want to have someone that would like to open up their home business but am I responsible for their activities on -site. So if the Town (inaudible) dump drainage or whatever, do they come after the tenant or do they come after the landlord? Ms. Brock — I think normally the Town Code Officer would initially go after whoever is actually operating the business if in fact something's being done in a manner that's not in compliance with the code. That tenant would be the one who would then have to come before ZBA if they need to get any special approvals or variances or anything like that. Would the Town ever go after the landlord? I can't tell you, I guess. It would probably depend on the situation, but I think, and Dan you can correct me if I am wrong, in the first instance, a Code Enforcement Officer would generally be going after whoever it is who is actually undertaking the action that's not in compliance with the code. If that's the tenant, then that's who they would be citing and telling to come... Board Member Talty — Okay. I just wanted to hear that because... Mr. Walker — Assuming that it's a violation or abuse then probably that's true but the landlord would also have responsibility if it was a building code operation that was being violated by the operation. Say there was ... if there was a fire issue or something like that...And the owner of the property is always ... you always know where they are ... so ultimately if we have to find someone and we can't find the tenant that's caused the problem we will probably go.after the property owner too. If the problem is not abated. Board Member Talty — I would say that that is my concern at this point. I don't want to wish anybody that they can't pursue their own career or their own dream but at the same time, in this particular element, where there's leasers and renters and a lot of times there's a lot of murkiness... maybe the tenants don't know what the landlord's doing and the landlord doesn't know what the tenant is doing and I just have some issues with having the landlord on the hook for a tenant's behavior. PB 1 -16 -07 Page 12 Ms. Brock — But they are anyway. I mean, any tenant that comes in and tries to do something with the property that doesn't meet the zoning requirements... Board Member Talty — Yeah but what we're talking about is opening up your own business on -site, and its not your property. That's a whole nother kettle of fish. Ms. Brock — Right. 1 think my only point is that the landlord, ultimately, is responsible for ensuring that the tenants activities comply with the zoning requirements. Whether its in operation of a home business or just any other use they may want to make of the property. So... Board Member Talty — That's the only point I wanted to bring up because it's very leery and I know the traditionally the courts lean towards the tenant, traditionally, on most issues. So, I'm not really happy ... and the wording on that, normally, I'd like to see that changed. Mr. Kanter — Let me just quickly address that. The Codes and Ordinances Committee did talk about that word in particular because they wanted to know whether current enforcement had any difficulty using that type of terminology. 1 just wanted to point out that both of the sections that Eva mentioned, a and f and this one, which you mentioned, which is in section g, are all existing wording that is in the ordinance now, controllingfiome occupations. What the amended: law is it basically pulls them out of that definition and puts them into a special regulation section. But those sections are the exact same wording, if I remember correctly. So, in terms of current enforcement, we haven't had difficulty enforcing it. You're probably right, using a word like normally does bring things into interpretation by the enforcement officer but it seems to have worked so far. Chairperson Wilcox — Anybody else? Board Member Thayer — In d it says "no goods shall be offered for sale on the premises except those created assembled. or reconditioned completely on the property." In other words we are saying they can't sell something but they can sell stuff they make on the premises? I'm not quite clear about that. Ms. Brock — Well I think the idea was that you just didn't want to have a retail store open up on site. Board Member Thayer — Well, if they create their own crafts, they could have a retail store. Ms. Brock -- Yes. Chairperson Wilcox — They could have a retail store subject to the "business shall not generate traffic in any greater volume than would normally be expected in a residential neighborhood." PB 1 -16 -07 Page 13 Board Member Thayer — True, but we are also letting them sell it, according to this. Chairperson Wilcox — Yeah, but we don't want a significant traffic in that neighborhood either. Board Member Thayer — It just seems like it's conflicting, is all. Board Member Hoffmann — But that comes from...if you think about something that many people think of as a traditional home occupation like being a seamstress at home ... What a seamstress does, it seems to me, if she makes a dress for somebody, she sells that dress to that person on the premises after she has made it. Board Member Thayer --- And we're saying that that's okay, as long as she doesn't have 10 people come in and buy a dress ... I guess. Where's the limit ?. Board Member Hoffmann — Well the other thing is that it also says she cannot bring in ready -made clothes that she has not sewn and sell them.. Board Member Thayer — I understand that. But if she brings in a ready made dress or whatever -and then redoes it a little bit, then she can resell it. Board Member Hoffmann — No, that would be considered an alteration, which a seamstress does also and then she gets paid just for the alteration. Mr. Kanter -- Larry, I think the theory behind that ... what seems to be a conflict is that somebody producing things on -site is not any where near as likely to be able to produce as much as ... you could just go out to Walmart, buy $1,000's of dollars of merchandise an resell it at your house. That's what it is trying to avoid. But if you're productive and you can sew 10 dresses in one day, then by all means, go ahead and sell them. Board Member Thayer — Yeah, but that will increase the traffic. Mr. Kanter - Not likely to increase it as much a the going to Walmart and selling it as a reduced rate. Ms. Cosely — I have a question too.. What if a person writes a book? In that case it is created as an intellectual property but it is assembled usually by an off -site printer. Chairperson Wilcox — Not worried. I don't think that's an issue here. I don't think it's any different than a plumber that takes ... I come back to the tradesman. whether it's a plumber or a carpenter or even somebody who goes to your house and does an oil change on your car. We have someone whose home occupation is taking orders, talking on the phone, doing billing and invoices then goes out during the day to service their customers and comes back at night. That's a home occupation as well. PB 1 -16 -07 Page 14 I don't think that anybody is worried about the impact of that sort of occupation, which meets all the criteria. It's inside and mostly what's going on is paperwork and such. Board Member Conneman — What if somebody has a book fair? Chairperson Wilcox — Yeah, I think the book fair runs up against the "ail business and activities that are conducted within the bounds of the lot on which the business is located. must be conducted wholly within the dwelling or accessory building." See then we get caught with that word because you can't have a book fair because you'd have people outside. This is...you'd...l think Susan (Cosley) might have been surprised at how much time we spent on this at Codes and Ordinances and know you see. us going through it again though some of us have been through this, the four gentlemen over here have not, and again we go back to the same sort of issues. How do you allow it, how do you allow what you want without opening up the door to something you don't want. Board Member Talty — I think that everybody's done a wonderful job in trying to determine the language and verbiage, but I think this is the slippery slope, period. I mean, we could sit here all -night and think of 50 examples of what if and then, and find that code enforcement is overwhelmed already and -l- think that this particular initiative is going to put even more of a drain and people will be telephoning and calling... maybe not in the next month or even 6 months, but down the road, you're gonna see a lot more.. Chairperson Wilcox —.The basic change here is to allow renters. That is the basic purpose here, there are some other changes, but that is the basic purpose here. Board Member Hoffmann — But we have also expanded some of the allowed uses and the are reasons for doing that. You got the article about the benefits of allowing home occupations in transportation and various things like that. And so... Board Member Talty — For every point there's a counter point though because I went through traffic ... I don't want 10 home businesses in my neighborhood. That's not why I moved there. I moved there so it would be a quiet residential neighborhood, that's it. And any increase, I know what we tried to do with all the verbiage, but, I'm just saying that this is the slippery slope and it's already in place and I know we are carrying it over to renters now, but, as things go on, isn't that why they built strip plaza's and malls? To go there. Isn't that why people rent square footage?. I understand that. Is society changing? For sure. But I don't want every single one of the neighborhoods in the Town of Ithaca to have a little 2 x 2 sign every other yard. That's what I'm on record for. Board Member Hoffmann — Yeah, and I certainly think that signs can be a problem and I don't think they have to be very big. It could be something that just is attached PB 1 -16 -07 Page 15 to the top of a typical mailbox. Because if you can read the name on a mailbox, you can read a name on a sign that's attached to that and that's the whole size it has to be. Because you don't need bigger things when you go slowly through a residential neighborhood. You can read it well enough anyway. I have some concerns too, but I guess I feel that there are enough advantages that want to see this tried. And if it turns out not to be a good thing, then we have to try and reign it in again, I suppose. Board Member Conneman — Well, question... words "residential character"... I.. have an idea what a residential character is. I think I agree with Kevin but Eva might not agree and Eva might welcome people up in her neighborhood having ... that doesn't change her residential character. Board Member Hoffmann — Right. One of the things that's in the memo here from Jonathan is, at the top of the second page, under point 3, it says " what types of home business create potential impacts on the surrounding neighborhood versus those that are virtually unnoticeable to neighbors" and I think that most of the ones that we have talked about and thought about are pretty much unnoticeable to neighbors and that's why I think it's okay. Board Member Conneman — I would agree. I am just saying that you can pick even more, your standard versus my standard. Chairperson Wilcox - Susan (Cosley), anything else you would like to say before let the general public speak? Chairperson Wilcox invites the Public to address the Board. Chuck Light, Westview Lane The only comment that I have is that if I heard this correctly and this agenda item is not the real reason why I am here tonight, but, If I heard this correctly, this is a question of whether or not a renter should be allowed to do what a homeowner can do under no question. And if that's true, if this woman owned her home and could come before you and apply for the right to conduct her business and you were by ordinance, denied the right to say no as long as she complid with your ordinances...) don't know how you can tell a renter that they can't do it. I remember a time when the only people that could vote in America were property owners. We deem to have done away with that. Ownership of property is not a condition of citizenship and if a property owner can conduct a business that Susan wishes to conduct in this property and her landlord has no objection, and if her landlord and she agree to comply with all zoning ordinances, I don't know how, given the equal protection afforded citizens under the Constitution, that you can tell this renter that she is somehow to be treated differently than someone who can afford to own property. And with that, I will allow you to deliberate your choices. PB 1 -16 -07 Page 16 Thank you very much. Chairperson Wilcox — Thank you Sir. Anybody else? There being no one, 1 will close the public hearing at 7:45 p.m. ADOPTED RESOLUTION. PB Resolution No. 2007 - 010 Recommendation to Town Board Regarding a Proposed Local Law Amending Chapter 270, Titled "Zoning, of the Town of Ithaca Code Regarding Home Occupations Town of Ithaca Planning Board January 16, 2007 Motion made by Rod Howe, seconded by Larry Thayer. WHEREAS: The Town of Ithaca Codes and Ordinances Committee has reviewed the provisions in the Town of Ithaca Zoning Code regarding home occupations, and WHEREAS: Based on this review, the Codes and Ordinances Committee has drafted a proposed local law amending the Zoning Chapter of the Town of Ithaca Code regarding home occupations, and WHEREAS: The above - described amendment would, among other things, allow both an owner and renter of a dwelling to qualify for a home occupation on the premises in which they reside, move the home occupation criteria from the definition section of the Code to the Special Regulations section, delete the limit on number of people working off -site for a qualifying home occupation and clarifying that the limit on number of employees relates to those involved in on -site operations, and allow qualifying home occupations by right in all residential zones without the need for special approval, and WHEREAS: The Town Board has reviewed the above - described proposed local law at its year -end meeting on December 29, 2006 and has referred this matter -to the Planning Board for a recommendation, and WHEREAS: The Town of Ithaca Planning Board has held a public hearing on January 16, 2007 to consider comments from the public regarding this proposed zoning amendment, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED: That the Town of Ithaca Planning Board, pursuant to Section 270- 236(H) of the Town of Ithaca Code, hereby finds that: 1. There is a need for the proposed zoning amendment to accommodate the needs of Town residents and because home occupations should be encouraged as a positive step towards reducing daily commuter traffic, PB 1 -16 -07 Page 17 energy consumption, and air pollution and to save on child care costs, and provide opportunities for people who might otherwise be unable to work outside the home (including single parents, the elderly and the disabled), and 21 The existing and probable future character of the neighborhood or community will not be adversely affected by the proposed zoning amendment, and 3. The proposed zoning amendment is in accordance with a comprehensive plan of development of the Town, and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED: That the Town of Ithaca Planning Board hereby recommends that the Town Board adopt.the proposed Local Law Amending Chapter 270, Titled "Zoning," of the Town of Ithaca Code Regarding Home Occupations. A vote on the motion resulted as follows: AYES: Wilcox, Hoffmann, Conneman, Thayer, and Howe. NAYS: Talty The Motion was carried 5 to 1. PUBLIC HEARING Consideration of a Recommendation to the Town of Ithaca Zoning Board of Appeals regarding sign variances to allow five banners /signs celebrating PRI 's 75th Anniversary, located at 1259 Trumansburg Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 24- 3-3.1, Low Density Residential Zone. Paleontological Research Institution (PRI), Owner /Applicant; Amy Naim, Agent. The proposal is to install four banner -like signs on utility poles along Trumansburg Road, each sign measuring 2' by 6' (12 square feet), and one 10' by 4' (40 square feet) banner -like sign mounted on posts near the PRI driveway entrance. The signs would stay up for the duration of 2007. Warren Allmon, Director, PRI, Trumansburg Road We are ... we thought about this and for a number or reasons, we are happy to withdraw our request for the large banner right at the driveway. We have our own reasons for wanting to do that and that was an issue brought up by staff, to our staff, and so that might simplify some things this evening. But, having said that, I just want to give you some very qualitative feel for what we are doing here. PRI was founded 75 years ago this year and so we are using all of 2007 to celebrate that and we are, as part of that, we wanted to do something that would kind of strike people as very different, that we hadn't done before. People are kind of used to looking at something going on at the building at 1259 but we wanted to do something very different and the model here was not a Town of Ithaca model but the model here was a City of Ithaca model, which was the Hangar Theater's banners a couple of summers ago mounted on NYSEG -owned light poles out along Taughannock Boulevard. So that was the model that we had in mind and really it's about two things; it's about a qualitative feel, people drive by at not 45mph, not even PB 1 -16 -07 Page 18 55mph so they would just grab a quick feel of wow, there's something special going on here and also, as they are slowing down to the hospital, that they would maybe catch a glimpse of the number 75. We don't have any misconception that everybody is going to read everything that's on that but we wanted it to look special and interesting and then, as they drive by it twice a day, they would eventually pick up on it. And part of all that, the reason I am going into all that, is part of all that is the sequential... that's why we want more than just one or just two banners. We want a feeling of a kind of procession through it. So that's an integral part of it. This is not our primary communication device about the 75th anniversary. Chairperson Wilcox —.Questions. Board Member Hoffmann — Well, this is one that I think of as a slippery slope. The whole concept of allowing signs on telephone. poles that are not on the property and ...Little signs ... I mean, the 24 x 72 inch signs are not very large when you consider driving by and reading them, especially with all the text that's on there. As well as that other big sign, in addition to the already big sign that's there. I must say, I am not terribly enthusiastic about seeing this done and I would much rather see something else. Some other way of letting people know that this is the 75th anniversary, rather than putting up banners and signs. I've seen thing like this. I have seen them in have banners like this by the museums to le' and when. But that's a different locality. Like drive by. People do drive by but they don't I'm concerned that this is not the right way to big cities, in Washington DC they often people know what's going on and why on a mall where you walk by instead of see the signs quite the same way. So do it. Chairperson Wilcox -- Warren, you've had contact with either NYSEG or NYS Department of Transportation? Mr. Allmon — Both. We found out our property, they are on the State NYSEG and NYSEG was happy to and then just yesterday we foum Verizon poles, so, if the Town let's to Verizon. that the poles that we're talking about are not on .right -of -way and we thought that they belonged to let us do anything we wanted to, really, with them J out that they are not NYSEG poles, they are us go ahead with this then our next step is to talk Chairperson Wilcox -- So you haven't talked to Verizon. Have you had any conversation with DOT? Mr. Allmon — We, no, other than to know where the right -of -way is. Chairperson Wilcox — So you don't have any idea at this point what determination they would make. PB 1 -16 -07 Page 19 Mr. Allmon — I guess I'm assuming, having talked to the folks at the Hangar, that even thought that was the city that the state part would be similar and they have talked to us about what they kind of went through with regard to the state on 89. Board Member Howe = I don't particularly have a problem important institution and it's an important anniversary. It's not are trying to signal something special is going on. I mean, I concerned with the precedent it is setting, but I think that brought to us, we look at the set of circumstances and make particularly have a problem with it. with it. I think it's an the only way that they guess I would only be each time these are a decision, but I don't Board Member Conneman — I do. I think... I support the Museum of the Earth, I'm a member, but it seems to me that this is out of character with the neighborhood. drove up yesterday and went both ways past PRI and I think the biggest problem PRI has is if I am coming from Trumansburg, I may not be able to find the place until I get past it. So that's ...if you were proposing some sort of a sign to .be. sure that people knew where it was, that would be one thing. I think this is big city stuff and I don't ... I think it also sets a precedent to leave something up for 12 months and I know they do that for the museums in Chicago, that's fine, but people are walking by, they don't expect to drive by. There must be some other ways to publicize this kind of an event and I think it does set a precedent, which I am unwilling to vote in favor of. Board Member Thayer — I wonder how the Hangar Theater feels about that, Warren. Have you talked to them at all. Did they have any feedback from their banners? Mr. Allmon — They were very positive about it. They really enjoyed it. Board Member Thayer — I mean, they were very noticeable and I didn't think very obtrusive, .. Mr. Allmon — They were very positive about it. They only did it that one year. They stayed up a little. while into the second year but they were, at least anecdotally, there's no way to measure these things directly, but they were very positive about it. That's kind of what. got us thinking about it a year ago and I talked to Lisa a little bit about it and she was very positive. Board Member Thayer — I would hate to set a precedent doing this but on the other hand, it does, to me, create, like you mentioned, some excitement, some idea that there is something different going on and I think for a short -term, if you can call a year short-term, I wouldn't be opposed to it. Board Member Talty — Warren, how high is the bottom of the banner. Does it say it on there? Am I missing it? PB 1 -16 -07 Page 20 Mr. Allmon — This little picture here ... you don't have this one,. There is a little mock- up here that you shouldn't take too seriously but, it just shows the banner hanging off the pole here ... We have not specified that height and as Amy said, when we were talking to NYSEG, they were talking about particular heights that they had used with the Hangar, and now that it's Verizon, we have no idea.' Furthermore, these are wooden poles instead of steel poles so the heights that the Hangar used wouldn't necessarily be relevant. So, Kevin, we haven't really though about it. I think our thinking was just high enough so you'd see it. Board Member Talty — Dan, how high are telephone poles, do you know off -hand? Like 25 or 30 feet? Mr. Walker — Those poles look like they are about 25 feet. Board Member Talty — So I am just doing the quick math because we know that the lines on the top, they are not going to allow them to get within x amount of feet of the lines. Mr. Walker — Well, the poles he is talking about have only telephone cables on them. There's no power on them at all. Board Member Talty — No I just meant, they are not going to allow them to go flush ... you know what I mean ... you'd have to come down. slightly. Mr. Walker — Right, but there's no real hazard on the telephone cables unless you damage. the cables. Board Member Talty — Well the only reason I actually brought that up is line of sight. Because if you have all the banners along the ground... Mr. Allmon — Oh right ... no we weren't thinking that at all. We were thinking it would be at least 10 feet up or something like that. No, the whole idea was to definitely, as the examples have suggested, it's kind of a procession like you would see on a city street. Similar to the banners that are in downtown Ithaca. Board Member Talty — Well, I don't have a problem as long as there are no line of sight issues. I think it is an important event and I agree with your points about slippery slope but I think in this particular instance, I agree with Rod, where 75th year, big event, I would be willing to go along with it as long as it doesn't pose any safety concerns with line of sight. Board Member Hoffmann — I am aware that there have been banners, but much larger ones, used on the Johnson Museum on Cornell campus... . Mr. Allmon — We are also going to have those. We're gonna have those hanging on our buildings.... inside our windows. PB 1 -16 -07 Page 21 Board Member Hoffmann — I was just going to suggest to you,, Theater Arts Center in Collegetown also has these large banners on their buildings. In those two instances the banners are on the outside and they are up for shorter periods of time... Mr. Allmon — And if we were right up at the curb the way those two institutions are I would agree with you, wholeheartedly. Board Member Hoffmann — Well, I think the buildings can be seen quite well.from the road, actually, when you drive by. Mr. Allmon — Not at 55, we've actually tested that. Chairperson Wilcox -- There's two issues. One, if you are headed south, you have the berms that hide the parking areas and then you have the setback which is 150- 200 feet. And if you're coming the opposite direction, forget it, you're not going to know its there until you're by it. Board Member Conneman — At 50 mph you're not going to see this anyway. Mr. Allmon — You're absolutely right. You're not going to read it but you will sense that something special is... Board Member Conneman — the 75, big deal.. Mr. Allmon — That is a big deal to us. Board Member Conneman — Well, I don't think so. I think ... the other thing is that down in Ithaca there is a 30mph speed limit. You're almost forced to see the Hangar signs. Mr. Allmon — You're ... YOU 're ... I'm agreeing with you but disagreeing with the effect. Because people drive so fast by us, we know, we've surveyed it, that people who've never been there before don't know that we are even there until they've passed us and so that's why we wanted to have this as you are coming up toward Trumansburg, you come out of the ..into the open up the hill and suddenly you would just see these things and you would. say, they are going to be up for a year, and you would say "Oh yeah, I saw those banners up. There must be something happening." So it's a feel. This isn't about communicating a message with one sign. Board Member Talty — Warren, how about any type of issues with maintenance. Like if they get shredded, high wind or something, are you going to replace them? Mr. Allmon — Take them down and replace them, oh yeh. They are rip -stop nylon and we would replace them if they became torn. PB 1 -16 -07 Page 22 Chairperson Wilcox — Did you want to say something over here? Mr. Kanter — We were just picking up on the mention of some kind of window signs and there are definitely regulations in the Sign Law dealing with window signs and banners and there are pretty restrictive limits on that in residential zones. So I am glad you mentioned that Warren. Mr. Allmon — Well, you have all been up there, here's the problem; We're 200 feet from the road, so rule's the rule but we're 200 feet from the road and you would have to look very hard to drive by Trumansburg Road and see a banner that is hanging in the front widow, in front of where the whale is is where we're talking about, and so the feeling, the purpose there of course is you're already out of your car and you are walking in and you see something special. So the different banners are going to have different purposes and so it's all about creating one large feeling. If we were right up at the curb the way the Schwartz Center is then we would just hang something, or the way the big museums are in big cities, we would just hang one big banner off the front and be done with it. But it's a completely different dynamic. No you're not walking by it, you're driving by it at 50mph and you've got to see that something is happening there. When you pull up, it would be nice to see that something is different and happening there. So it's all a package.. And this, of course, is just the banner part. You are going to see all this other announcement material that goes along with this. So, Jon, I understand that there's rules about that but it, for us, it cuts both ways. If, why don't you just put something down next to the museum except there's regulations about that and you won't see that from the road; why don't you put something out by the road and not in front of the ...so... Board Member Conneman — I didn't write it... Mr. Allmon — I know, I just ... We thought of all these things and so that's why we're... Board Member Conneman — Would you accept something other than hanging those banners on the posts? Mr. Allmon — These banners? Such as? Board Member Conneman — Maybe allowing a bigger sign to be hung right where it says Museum of the Earth. Mr. Allmon — It's not ... That's not what we ... that's not what this is designed to do. This is not designed to communicate, one shot deal, that there is something happening inside the museum. That's not what this is about. PB 1 -16 -07 Page 23 Board. Member Hoffmann — I would just like to restate, if I didn't make it clear before, that I think that the old PRI building as well as the new addition are very visible from the road, that was one of the reasons that I was concerned that the old building not be changed, but that it remain the way it was, the way that you can see it from the road and why I was concerned that the new addition be very attractive, which it is and I am glad the way it worked out. I think that because they are set back, you can have them in your view for a longer period of time when you drive by whereas when these rather small signs are up by the road, you are going to go by too quickly. Mr. Allmon — All I can tell you is that we've studied it. That the vast majority of people who have never been down Trumansburg Road before, simply do not see the building. They see our big sign, of course, up at the road, but they do not see the building, at all. Board Member Hoffmann — That's if you come from the north,... Mr. Allmon — Either way. Board Member Hoffmann — If you come from the south, I think it is very visible. Mr. Allmon — I am just telling you what we've studied, that we have surveyed people who have driven past there and they stop at thee light at the hospital and we ask them, didn't see it. Board Member Hoffmann — Well it could be that they are just not interested in looking at what's along the road, they look at the traffic, I understand that very well, that's what you are supposed to do when you are on the road, but I find that I glance over there because I like the way those buildings look. Anyway, I am not happy..with what you have presented and I would have liked to have seen something else. If you wanted to have something to alert people to this anniversary. I was going to make another comment too but I don't remember it. Board Member Talty — Is this an accurate depiction of what the banner will look like? Mr. Allmon — Yes, that's the actual art. Board Member Talty — Okay, well that's a little bit .different than what is in here because on here I see, I'm not trying to put you through the wringer or anything but, the Ithaca Journal's on here and a bunch of other sponsors... Mr. Allmon — And it now turns out that only the Trust_ Company will be on there and Cayuga Radio, not the Journal. But we could take those off, that's not essential. Board Member Talty — I would prefer... PB 1 -16 -07 Page 24 Mr. Allmon — That's easy... Board Member Conneman — Is there, a specific. date or month that it was founded? I mean, lot's of times people celebrate the month that something was founded or a period of time, 2 or 3 months or something... Mr. Allmon — Please put on your calendars June 28th because that will be our birthday party. Board Member Conneman — Well, that gives me an idea about what you. do, but I will write it down.. Chairperson Wilcox — I want to give the public a chance to speak Warren, is there anything else you want to say at this point? Chairperson Wilcox invites the public to address the Board. Rich DePaulo, Northview Road I have a somewhat unique perspective on postering, having been involved with the entertainment business in Ithaca for the last 23 years and I have a feeling that any time someone, regardless of how established or "legitimate" an ` institution is, is allowed to poster for whatever independent gain, every entertainer, every person with something to promote, is gonna point to that, as Ms. Hoffmann was saying, as the time when somebody was allowed to poster on a phone pole in the Town of Ithaca so why can't we do that. I am just telling you that I know it is going to happen. I totally ... I can respect the planning and the thought that's gone into the presentation, it's a lot more sophisticated than a staple gun and an 8' /z x 10 poster but nonetheless, it's the same principle, you're using essentially public utility infrastructure to promote a private endeavor and that's, I feel that there is a slippery slope element to that, I agree with Eva. Chairperson Wilcox — Anybody else? There being no one, Chairperson Wilcox closes the public hearing at 8:08 p.m. You have withdrawn from your application the 40 square foot banner ... Okay. Can I get a straw vote here. Board Member Talty — What are you saying? Chairperson Wilcox — Straw vote ... so what's before us, so the audience is clear, what's before us is a recommendation to the Zoning Board only, the Zoning Board will ultimately make the determination, so the question is, I am trying to get a straw vote because we need to write the resolution to some extent. Board Member Hoffmann — Can .I just make a comment about one of the papers first. The environmental assessment form I feel needs a correction under point 1 0, PB 1 -16 -07 Page 25 Chairperson Wilcox -- It's not up to us, but you can tell Staff that you would like them to make a correction... Board Member Hoffmann — Okay, I feel that one should mark off residential as well as commercial and open space because there is not residential, very much residential properties across the road from that. Chairperson Wilcox — The actual SEQR determination will be made by the Zoning Board. Chairperson Wilcox — We need to write a resolution here, one way or the other, so I am trying to get a straw vote where we think we are going to go. Up, up, up, down, down, and I am going to be up and let me explain my feeling on this. I'd like to limit ... you say 12 months, I'd like to limit it to the end of the year, is the verbiage I would like to put in, that they be down by December 31 st. I think they are festive, I think they are pretty, I think they are well designed. NYS Department of Transportation will not allow them if they find that they are a safety hazard. They're going to require them to be up high enough to be out of the way, I don't know what Verizon is going to do. I think you'd have more luck with NYSEG than Verizon. Board Member Thayer — That's an important point though. Chairperson Wilcox — It is an important point, we could recommend, we could not recommend, the Zoning Board could decide to grant the variances and you still need the two approvals but there is some ... DOT has clearly approved them before, at the Hangar Theater along 89, but that was probably NYSEG and not Verizon so ... I think they are a nice addition and because ... one of the reasons is that they are colorful and well designed. Are they supported top and bottom? He nods his head yes. Okay, thank you Board Member Conneman — Fred, it sets a precedent... Chairperson Wilcox — No it doesn't... Board Member Conneman — It sets a precedent, yes it does, it sets a precedent and when it comes up the next time, we will remind you of that. A three month period, it'd be fine ... the month before, the month, the month after, that's done lot's of places. Even in Chicago they don't leave anything up for a year. Chairperson Wilcox — That's fine, I respect your opinion. Board Member Conneman — I respect your opinion too. PB 1 -16 -07 Page 26 Chairperson Wilcox — So let me try to craft something that we can start from reading the semi -draft that we have. Motion drafted, moved and seconded. Changes made, changes approved by Chairperson Wilcox and Board Member Howe. Further Comments Board Member Talty — I have a problem with a whole year. I don't have a problem with the museum, 75th anniversary, I don't have a problem with that. I have a problem with. Ithaca Journal for a year up there. I got a problem with that. Board Member Thayer— He said he'd take it out. Chairperson Wilcox — You got a problem if it said M &T? Board Member Talty — I have a problem with M &T, I have a problem with BSB, I don't care who it is (laughter) I feel, I have to say that because my wife does work for M &T bank, but I have a problem because we are here sponsoring the museum, we're not sponsoring Ithaca Journal, or any of the banks, or any other institutions that I can't read on there,.. Board Member Thayer — They are apparently paying for the signs.. Board Member Talty — They'll pay some other way, they'll get their money, so ... For a whole year, that's just ridiculous for that kind of sponsor up there. Board Member Thayer —:Your not going to see it anyway. Chairperson Wilcox — I need to maintain some kind of consensus here. Are we okay with moving this here. Board Member Hoffmann — I just want to say that I don't think we are here to sponsor the museum, we do that as individuals, privately, but I don't think we do that as Board members. Board Member Talty — I may have misspoken, but I am saying that the applicant in front of us is the museum, it's not the museum and the Trust Company, and NYSEG and whoever. ADOPTED RESOLUTION. PB Resolution No. 2007 - 011 Recommendation to the Town of Ithaca Zoning Board of Appeals -- Sign Variances Paleontological Research Institution (PRI) 1259 Trumansburg Road Sign Review Board (Planning Board) PB 1 -16 -07 Page 27 January 16, 2007 MOTION made by Fred Wilcox, seconded by Rod Howe. NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board, acting as the Town of Ithaca Sign Review Board, hereby recommends to the Zoning Board of Appeals the request for sign variances for four 12- square foot, banner -like signs on utility poles, where signs on utility poles are prohibited and signs in residential districts are restricted to four square feet in size. be approved, AND BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board, acting as the Town of Ithaca Sign Review Board, recommends to the Zoning Board of Appeals that a sign variance for the 4 12- square foot banner -like signs with an area not to exceed 48 square feet in total, be approved, with the following conditions: a) The proposed sign(s) shall not exceed 48 square feet in total sign area, as defined in the Town of Ithaca Sign Law, and b) The proposed sign(s) shall not be illuminated, and c) If the signs on the utility poles are approved, then the applicant will submit documentation from Verizon and NYS Department of Transportation that such signs will be acceptable by those organizations, and d) Such signs to be removed by December 31, 2007, and e) If the signs become ripped or tattered they will be promptly replaced or removed, and f) Signs shall not interfere with line of sight of motorists traveling on Route 96, and g) Applicant shall eliminate any references to commercial sponsors on the signs. A vote on the motion resulted as follows: AYES: Wilcox, Thayer, Howe, and Talty. NAYS: Hoffmann, Conneman The Motion was carried 4 to 2. Chairperson Wilcox announces the next agenda item at 8:20p.m. PB 1 -16 -07 Page 28 SKETCH PLAN Consideration of a sketch plan for the proposed Ithaca College Athletics and Events Center located on the eastern side of the Ithaca College campus near the Coddington Road campus entrance, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No.'s 41 -1 -30.21 41- 1 -24, and 42- 1 -9.2, Medium Density Residential Zone. The proposal includes the construction of a +/- 300,000 square foot field house building (containing a 200M track, indoor field for practices and games, seating and floor space for large events, Olympic size pool and diving well, indoor tennis courts, rowing center, strength and conditioning center, etc.) an outdoor - lighted artificial turf field and 400M track, and the creation of 900 +/- parking spaces (550 existing parking spaces moved and 350 new parking. spaces). The project is proposed in several phases and will also include new walkways, access roads, stormwater facilities, outdoor lighting, and landscaping. Ithaca College, Owner /Applicant; Richard Couture, Agent. Chairperson Wilcox — Ladies and Gentlemen, as I said at the beginning of the meeting, we will give the applicant and their agents the chance to make their presentation, we will then question them and we will then give members of the public the chance to address us, assuming that we still have time. I remind everybody that we have two agenda items after this one, so, given that... Carl Sgrecci, Vice President for Finance and Administration, Ithaca College I am here tonight on behalf of the college to talk about what we feel. is a very exciting project that we have on the horizon. What you are going to see is actually an extension of the master planning exercise that we went through in the early part of this decade with Sasaki Associates, which the Town had some participation. Typically, this is a mini - master plan of the south or how we ultimately want to see the eastern most portion of our campus develop over the next several years. The need that we are. going to be talking about is going to address the need for additional athletic facilities on our campus to provide better facilities for our existing student population n. I have often remarked that I am amazed at how well our athletic teams do given what they do not have available to them in terms of facilities. If you're familiar with our campus, the only real inside athletic related facility we currently have is Hill Center which is our gymnasium complex that was constructed in the early 1960's and really designed for a campus population that's only about a third of the size of what we currently have. The project that we are envisioning is to provide better facilities to our existing population, it's not being designed to accommodate any planned enrollment growth. We plan to keep the college at its current population of about 6,000 undergraduate students. We don't envision significant use of this facility for purposes other than our own athletic events either. We do see the possibility of &10 events a year might, that are PB 1 -16 -07 Page 29 not athletic related, could be accommodated there. For example, we might want to use it as a rain -back up facility for our commencement, other organizations for example, like Ithaca High School, might want to conduct its graduation ceremony there. Or a few concerts a year for our student population but we're not into this to create a major money making facility for Ithaca College or for the larger Ithaca Community. It's there being designed for our students. What you are going to see provides for facilities that are clearly beyond that college's means at the present time. We are taking a very.long view of this and hope . to be able to enhance our facilities over several years, maybe even decades, before we accomplish this entire facility. As money is available for doing so, but we feel that it is important that we plan now for the ultimate complex so that all of the pieces will be able to fit together when and if the resources are there to accommodate them. Our primary objective, at this point, is to obtain three, accomplish three primary facilities. The first will be the field house with an indoor track, the second will be an outside, lighted turf field, a facility that literally every campus that we compete with for athletic teams has and in fact many high schools have but we do not have any lighted facility or all- weather turf facility field on our campus and so that we want to accomplish as a part of this first phase of this projects. And lastly, as you will see, the facility that we are talking about building will be located directly upon existing parking spaces. So we need to relocate those parking spaces and do make some provisions for additional parking spaces for those events that will draw interested parties from off - campus to our campus for the events. Briefly, I'll mention the process that we have been going through. We began to explore multiple sites on the college campus where we might locate this facility. As you can imagine, the 300,000 + /- square foot is very large in terms of mass and as I've already indicated, we wanted to build this in phases as money becomes available. We explored the possibility of making it part of the Butterfield Stadium complex but the hillside there made the idea of building it in stages almost, virtually impossible because we would have to stack the facility ain multiple stories and so it didn't make the idea of having to tear off one level of roof every time you wanted to expand, it wasn't very practical. We explored the terraced playing fields which are above that. But the mass of the facility would not then leave any space for reasonable parking for events that would then be associated with it. We also actually looked at the area down near the athletic fields that are right along Route 96B, but there, too, parking would become an issue and we didn't think aesthetically that it was appropriate for a facility with that mass to literally be in the front yard of the campus and all the rest of the campus would literally look down on a large roof from almost every other campus perspective. So the more we looked around we began to look at the eastern most campus. When the Ciasci master plan was developed back in 2001, the 80+ acres that we own in that area was identified as where future development of the campus should PB 1 -16 -07 Page 30 take place and the more we thought about it the more realized that perhaps the future is now and that this was the right place to be looking to accommodate this facility. In the process we have included the discussions with the Town, appropriate people from the Town, the County, and the City and they are by no means complete but they have been participating in some of our meetings up to this point. In addition, we have invited our Coddington Road neighbors into an evening meeting with us where they saw a similar presentation in terms of what our ideas are, to seek their input and concerns and ideas and how we might address.any concerns that they may have. Out of those various meetings we know there are a number of issues that we are going to have to deal with and we are prepared to do so. We particularly want to work with the County in its plans to rework Coddington Road to see if there's anyway that we can work with them to help address some of the issues that they're concerned about there. Specifically, we think there may be an opportunity for us to put in a walk path or a side walk from our Coddington Road entrance to Hudson Street, perhaps behind the houses there and on our property that would alleviate the need to put a sidewalk on and along Coddington Road, which has been a concern for some of the residents there in terms of taking .space out of their front yards. Secondly, we can ... we are open to further discussions with the County in perhaps the redesign of our Coddington Road entrance even involving, potentially, a traffic circle or any other means whereby the speed of traffic on Coddington Road could be reduced or at least discouraged by people traveling there because tat is a concern not only for us but for the neighbors as well. The City is obviously concerned about, in those few events we do plan to have, that are not necessarily athletic related or even any athletic events, about significant traffic being released on Coddington Road and then of course going into, potentially, Hudson Street downtown. We think we can manage those events because they will be relatively few in nature with appropriate traffic guards and such to direct that traffic back out the college's main entrance on Route 96B so that it can be directed un either direction on the main state highway that runs in front of the campus. We know that some of the neighbors are concerned and express concerns about lights, the lighting that could potentially come from the lighted field and we.will address tonight, at least initially, some of those concerns with some fairly contemporary or recently developed lighting technology that should help us be able to control that. And they also expressed concern about noise from athletic events at the outdoor field and we want to continue to work with the neighbors and try to find ways of addressing those. We are trying to position the facilities as close to the campus proper as possible. We are even proposing to move a major power transmission line on the campus and bury the line so that we can move the facility closer to our main campus and PB 1 -16 -07 Page 31 integrate it into our community which pulls it as far away as possible from the Coddington Road neighbors and we want to maintain as much green space as possible between our campus and those neighbors to help control noise and other issues as well. We know that this is the biggest project, building that we have ever brought before the Town Planning Board and so we are fully prepared and we have agreed to move into a draft environmental impact statement, working with the Town to fulfill the SEQR requirements, and would like to get going on that particular aspect of the project as soon as possible. And so with that as background information, allow me to introduce the colleagues that I have with me this evening who will make most of the presentation. Joining us from our architectural firm, Mooney Nolan of Columbus Ohio is Troy Sherrard, Tim Schmalenberger and I think you are all familiar with local engineer Dave Herrick who is with TG Miller Engineering and with me also this evening is Rick Couture who is our Associate Vice President for Facilities. Tim Schmalenberger, MSI, 462 South Ludlow Alley, Columbus, OH Everything you see on these boards are in the PowerPoint presentation as well. Map showing an aerial view. Mr. Schmalenberger points out major locations and where they are envisioning the facility, the walkway, and parking. Key points Place buildings, parking, perimeter roads where they will remain. Probable stages and progression. Underground high - pressure gas transmission line that is next to impossible to move. Overhead transmission lines that will be put underground to facilitate getting as close as possible to the unmovable line. Maintain a 100 foot buffer between the trail and Coddington Road. Goal is to stay as close to the grade as possible to save as many layer of trees as possible between the Coddington Road residents and the edge of the new campus development. Lights are very heavily cut -off sports fixture to help with night sky initiative. Troy Sherrard, Mooney Nolan, Columbus, OH I am going to show you some of the floor plans. Again, this is a phased project, so some of the Boards is to show you the overall idea of the full build -out of the master plan and then a probable initial stage in the floor plan. PB 1 -16 -07 Page 32 Key Points Total of four phases. Entire facility will be ADA accessible. Two faces, one cut into the hill. Everyone can exit directly onto grade, onto a plaza which overlooks a field that is 15 feet lower so you get a terraced effect which reinforces the existing terrain. This facility will breathe on its' own. Heat rises to the ceiling, the differential will allow air to be sucked in from the side or other vents into the building. That's called natural ventilation... stack- effect. This explains the form a of the building. The majority of the building tucked into the grade on this side, a roof that folds over the face and runs up, slightly inclines up toward a tower element, which is the chimney which naturally ventilates this entire building to reduce energy costs by allowing hot air to rise up the roof and out the chimney and the cool air to be drawn in and down. Animation shown. Board Comments Board Member Talty — I would like to say that Ithaca College and the presentation from the folks from the Buckeye State have raised the bar tremendously high for any future presentations that may come this Board's way. Board Member Hoffmann — I have several things that I wonder if you could show us. We did get a verbal presentation of alternative sites, but if you're not terribly familiar with which building is named what and I am not, it's useful to see a picture of the whole campus and having somebody point out ... we looked at this site and we looked at that site and this is the reason we didn't choose it. And especially I would like, because it looks to me in some of the drawings that we got that there is a good bit of land on that side along Coddington Road, on the eastern side of campus. It's much bigger than the piece where the building is going to be so I am wondering why the buildings were not pulled in closer to the existing campus and it looks to me like they are very close to the Coddington Road. Mr. Sgrecci — Okay. You're first question was about some of the alternative sites that we looked at. If you get the orientation of the campus and this ... Some of the first sites that we looked at ... are you familiar with where the football field is on campus? Board Member Hoffmann — No, I think you better point it out. PB 1-16-07 Page 33 Mr. Sgrecci — I can't because it doesn't go (map does not show the field)... but it's of on this side of campus... Board Member Hoffmann — Can you turn the map so that it points to the normal way that:..with north up ... because I don't think it is right now. Mr. Sgrecci — (map is readjusted) This is Route 96B, the main entrance to the college, Buttterfield is if you turned right at the traffic circle and went up, Butterfield Stadium, the football field is right here and there is a very sharp increase in topography. The bleachers for the football stadium sit up on a bank much higher than the field itself and there is a further increase in topography that goes up to the parking lot and there's further playing fields here, an area that we call the terraces. These are the Terrace Residence Halls. We first looked at the possibility of building this facility into the bank here and make it part of the bleachers and part of the design of Butterfield Stadium. I think you can get an appreciation for the mass, of the size of the facility we would ultimately like to be able to accommodate, by the presentation. When we started looking at trying to accommodate that much square footage in this bank, the only way it could be accomplished was to be building a building that would be four or five stories tall, which is difficult for an athletic facility. But the fact that it would be multi- storied then complicated the phasing aspect-of the project. If we built one phase of it first, literally the only way you could do the second phase would be to tear the roof off the first phase and disrupt that and put a layer on and then maybe a.few years later. ..So you would literally have to build the building several times. It also created problem for us here in accommodating any significant parking. There was basically no other place here to accommodate additional parking for events that might be held in the facility. So from that point we moved up to the these playing fields that run up between the Terrace Resident Halls and the College Circle Apartments that are part of our Residential Life offerings. With the possibility of moving these fields further up the hill. This had certain appeal because it would allow us to build the facility in phases all on one story, but it literally, at the end, would take up the entire playing field complex and here too, not leave us any opportunities for additional parking for people who were attending the events. This parking right here is all used now fr students who reside in this area and those residence halls will remain and we can't just eliminate those cars. So then we began to explore another area on the campus which is over in this area here ... down below Park if you're familiar with the Park School, this is where a lot of our parking is and there are playing fields here in this whole area right along Route 96B and once again, as we looked at this, the sheer mass of the facility, we didn't think was going to be ... would be very visible from traffic on Route 96B and would not be...it would be just a big mass that you would see as you were driving along PB 1 -16 -07 Page 34 Route 96B and secondly, this is some of the lowest topography on the campus and it would be a massive roof that the rest of the .entire campus, literally from all the way from the Towers and every where would be looking down on this roof. Years ago when we built this building (pointing) in the physical facilities area of our campus, when that roof was new, that was very visible to the entire campus, particularly when the leaves were off in the fall and we learned from that that we want to be very sensitive about where we put some of these ... roofs of these larger facilities. So that's what drew us to this parcel of property over here which in the Sesacki master plan, for those of you that were on the Planning Board when we did that project back in 2001, we own approximately 80+ aces that runs all the way out to, a considerable ways out to Coddington Road and so the ... what we did was to begin to plan this facility for this end, the northern most end of that 80 -acre parcel for what you saw presented tonight. And that still would leave us some future expansion possibilities for well beyond my tenure at the college, I'm sure. But by building this facility here, we have not eliminated still further expansion for the campus many, . many decades down the road. There is still more land out here that we could build more residence halls or whatever. Does that address your... Board Member Hoffmann — Yes that helps a lot, thank you. One of my questions was why the Mr. Sgrecci — Excuse me you had another question ... why we didn't bring it any closer to campus and away from Coddington Road. We actually... Board Member Hoffmann — Because there's a lot of room there. Mr. Sgrecci — We actually are bringing it in ... What we want to do is we really feel that, of course this is the heart of the campus and what we don't want is for this facility to feel isolated or that it's. not part of central campus. So in fact, what we have done is by proposing to ... there is a major power line that Tim referred to that runs right down through here, we are proposing to bury that power line so in fact we can bring this facility in closer into the campus and take advantage of this main access right here to make this part of the main campus. If we don't move those power lines, because of setback requirements, we actually would have to have the facility closer to Coddington Road. So, we in fact have tried to address that and bring it in as close as we can to.the campus. The limiting factor now is, in this area, is the underground gas line that was referred to which can't be relocated. Board Member Hoffmann — I am not familiar with what the topography is in that whole empty parcel you have there in the lower right corner but if what you're saying is true ... If one assumes that one wants to put that project as far north as possible on PB 1 -16 -07 Page 35 that parcel, but if one were to spread it out from north to south as close as possible to campus, going further south than your proposal is now, maybe instead of the parking ... that would be another way, to bring it away from Coddington Road. Mr. Sgrecci — That's possible, but it also, in essence, would bring it away from our campus and would serve against our desire to keep our campus relatively compact and the facility to be, particularly, easily accessible by our students. So, it would put it in this area over here, which the topography begins to get considerably different, it begins to get steeper out in here also, but it would... We are very ... we are trying to be very student conscious and program conscious to make sure that this facility is as integrated and as part of our campus community as possible and we feel, at least in this point in the development of our campus, to put something out in this ara that doesn't have anything in- between or have a linking mechanism with the rest of the campus would serve to isolate the rest of .... Board Member Hoffmann— I am not saying that, I am sure I am not making myself very clear, but I guess what I am saying ... If it were to start as far north as the current plan shows it, but then go further south, the whole project, along those power lines that you talked about, bringing it, making it a shape like this, rather than a triangular shape,... Mr. Sgrecci — We get into some very steep topography. Very substantial change in topography. I think this is the area that you are talking about, going further south.:. Board Member Hoffmann — Well just having the whole project have a different shape. Maybe with the parking further south and the facility essentially where you have proposed it. The building where you have proposed it but the parking looks to me like it is down very close to Coddington Road. (Chairperson Wilcox goes to the map and illustrates what he believes Board Member Hoffmann is trying to say. She agrees) Mr. Schmalenberger — So I think what you are saying is to elongate the structure... Board Member Hoffmann — No, No, I am saying move the parking over to the right on that picture so that it goes over the edge and disappears and you have more room, more green space between the campus and the Coddington Road community. That's what I am suggesting looking at. Mr. Schmalenberger — Yes, we looked at that because the college did have a concern about the walking distances from this area through this building into the campus. And what we quickly find, it's hard to see on this, although on the plan I think the topography does show, the ... as we head further south, the topography gets much more steeper, so to get into that area it is actually much more difficult to do. The area that we are in, that we are showing is the least topographically challenged PB 1 -16 -07 Page 36 portion of this whole 80 —acre parcel. The further south we go into that parcel, we get into the more sensitive wetland areas that have been identified. Board Member Hoffmann — I don't think in that location ... I am familiar with where the wetlands are, they are further south than that. Mr. Schmalenberger — That was our concerns when we were generating these options. But it is certainly something we could take a look at. We just know that it gets more topographically difficult in these areas, it's like the hillside really starts to head up. Board Member Hoffmann — Yeah, and like I said, it would be useful, actually, to see some topographic plans of that whole area to be able to judge, for us, too, what the difficulties are. Mr. Sgrecci — Just to give you some reference point ... The actual area that you are talking about, many years ago, was a ski slope for the college. So that gives you some sense of the change in topography. Board Member Hoffmann — Maybe that's a location that the building could be then. You can build a building on a slope, cutting into it as you have done for this one but to a greater degree, maybe, a little further south where there is a steeper slope. I am just concerned about too much of this being very close to Coddington Road and the residents that are there already, and incidentally, someone else mentioned this too, but it's not very helpful to only show the residences that are on the southern side, southwestern side of Coddington Road. The ones across the street should be shown too because they are impacted just as much by what happens on the college campus with the traffic and so on. Mr. Schmalenberger — Okay. Board Member Hoffmann — And beyond that there is a conservation zone and there is Six -Mile Creek and there are concerns about impacts on that too, about drainage and stuff like that, which I am sure will be taken care of, or else it won't be built... Mr. Schmalenberger — Absolutely, we understand that. Board Member Hoffmann — It's very useful, for a big project like this, to have you show, in drawings, not just the campus area but what is a little bit beyond too. And when it comes to the lights, for instance, the lights can certainly have a great impact on what is very close by, but in a place like Ithaca with the valleys and hillsides all around, I'm sure you're aware of this, the lights from that field can perhaps have a greater impact on East Hill and West Hill than it has on the immediate neighbors on South Hill. So that is something that it's very important to look at. PB 1 -16 -07 Page 37 Board, Member Conneman — I think it is also important to look at the time those lights are on. One of the complaints that the Town gets about Cornell is that those lights are on very late at night, sometimes and whether that is necessary and so forth. And I think lighting is 'a problem and your lights look very good. But, there are two other spaces... I am concerned, as Eva is, about the fact that you didn't show the houses on the other side there. The green space or whatever shield you are going to use to protect the neighbors. It seems to me that's very important. The second thing is ... Traffic. How are you going to bring them over from 96 to this facility as opposed to coming up Hudson Street and Coddington Road and so forth? Is there a plan? Is that part of a plan? Mr. Schmalenberger -- That plan will certainly have to be developed but the thought here is:..(backed up to a previous picture)... you can see the main entrance and the current primary perimeter road for the main campus would come in and mainly feed the site into a couple of areas. We can feed through this way, to get those cars in there with out really having to impact Coddington and even in the neighborhood meeting, certainly, that was a big topic of discussion, but again, with 8 -12 large events a year that would use this, which is what everybody is anticipating at this point, that could certainly, the more control ... if we had this gated or posted with police or campus police, that if there was a resident that lived up this direction, they could get out but everybody else would be sent back out these other routes. Board Member Conneman — I think that you ought to develop that plan with the lights, the protection of the neighbors and also this road which you project a lot of traffic. Mr. Schmalenberger — Absolutely. We have heard that loud and clear from the neighbors and certainly what the campus has experienced with some of the events that they do hold today. Board Member Conneman — The other concern that I have is that 25 or 30 years is a long time. I am not going to be on this Planning Board when you get done with this, obviously, but it seems to me, how do you propose phasing this and being sure that you keep ... that it's consistent... that the Planning Board is involved and so forth and so on, because I think that that is a concern of ... I think it is a concern of some of the neighbors I imagine too. Twenty -five, thirty years... Mr. Schmalenberger — Even ten, ten years might be a major change. From what understand from the zoning district that the campus sits within, we essentially have to come before the Town for approval of just about any structure or change and Jon has made that clear to us as well. So, but as a way to test this plan and test the various machinations, we've kind of taken it upon ourselves to go to the edge, what is ... what do we think is the maximum plan that this facility would place on this parcel of ground? So that we try to place, certainly, structures correctly, roadways, PB 1 -16 -07 Page 38 perimeter roadways, etc. So by showing as far out as we are trying to look, we are trying to think about as much as we could encounter in the next 10, 15, 20 years as. much as possible. We won't be perfect, it's going to change. Let's say, for instance, let's say a donor came in and wanted to sponsor one of the future phases that we thought was going to be further out. We would need to probably rejuggle our phases within that structure and at that point we would need to come back to the Town because it would be different. Mr. Sgrecci — I agree with .that Tim is saying, but our concept is that this overall master plan is establishing the perimeters of where this project might ultimately go. What I would envision happening is that if we were fortunate enough to, and as part of this plan we are out lining for you a maximum facility that might occur in the middle of this parcel, and what I would see happening as future developments take place is that we would be coming back to this Planning Board, when we got the money for the next phase of the facility, showing you how that next phase of the facility fits within this master plan and within that footprint and we would be going through the normal approval process as for any other addition of a building to our campus. We're not here, ultimately we are not expecting to get approval for buildings that we don't even have designed or planned. Every building or every addition to the building would come back through the normal approval processes but we think that it would be within the footprint or within the framework; we are trying to establish that here. - Chairperson Wilcox — Let me raise SEQR right no It is the appropriate time to raise SEQR. Mr. Kanter — Because doing this as a draft environmental impact statement as a process will allow the college and the Planning Board, and the other involved agencies to really look at the impacts of the whole future development. Chairperson Wilcox — My point was going to be that we have to look at the potential build -out because if we don't we get into what is called segmentation ... you're going to become experts at SEQR law with the New York State and segmentation.. you're nodding your heads, you probably have similar laws in other states, is taking a large project and breaking it up into small projects and doing an environmental review of each small piece. Well, there is very little environmental impact of each small piece but that's to avoid looking at the entire project and the impacts created by the entire project. So that will be very important, that we look at the full build -out potential so they can assess the environmental impacts and mitigate them to the extent necessary. David will certainly help you out with SEQR, within New York Sate. That will be a requirement. Board Member Thayer — Carl, moving those power lines underground, ,are you going to build on top of them? PB 1 -16 -07 Page 39 Mr. Sgrecci — You can't do that. They actually have the technology now...they are almost like pre- fabricated units that you can put in the ground and you actually can put then slabs on top of them that can serve as sidewalks. What it is is that those slabs are pre- fabricated and they allow you access in the future to get to the ... any portion of the gas line. Board Member Thayer — You mention that the gas line can't be moved, I was wondering why. Rich Couture, Ithaca College We've actually talked to Consolidated Gas or Dominion Gas which is the company that owns the high pressure gas line. They have a 41 foot right -of -way and so taking a look at the project with burying the power lines, we had NYSEG come on up, gave them the information, we actually walked the site with them to take a look at where we'd be burying those lines. The high - pressure gas line would be prohibitively ... the cost of moving that would just be astronomical and it's also something that you tend ... you try not to move high - pressure gas lines because that could end up being... something that you don't want to end up messing up too much. But the cost of trying to do that would be prohibitive. Chairperson Wilcox — I want to go through some of the items that were outlined in Jonathan's memo to us. We touched on transportation, we touched on the vehicular transportation. Pedestrian, bicycle is also important. The stretch of Coddington Road from which Ithaca College has their entrance is as you know narrow. We all can tell you stories about inebriated college students walking along that road at 1:00 in the morning. The local free weekly has a front -page article on the controversy on the improvements to that section of the road. I urge, I'll give you my copy, you're leaving town early tomorrow morning. Avoiding traffic on Coddington Road is important and the traffic that is there, both vehicular and pedestrian and bicycles and keeping that safe is important. We acknowledge the fact that you have shown some proposed trails off the road. Stormwater management, that's a given. We haven't mentioned it, that's a given. You ... that will have to be taken care of to the satisfaction of this Board and the Town Engineer. Visual impacts have been mentioned, both lighting locally and lighting as seen from the other hills. Eva makes a very, very good point, given the topography of the town, being the hills surrounding the city. There are cases ten years ago of people living on West Hill who were getting the light from Cornell's Schlokopff Field in their living rooms, and we certainly don't want to do that. Noise impacts were mentioned but noise is both athletes, fans and amplified sound. I think this Board will want to know what athletic competitions are going to occur PB 1 -16 -07 Page 40 there. We've heard practice fields, but no one said whether the football games will be moved over to this facility at some point. If they are, that's. a significant impact. Everybody is shaking their head out there, but amplified sound could be, would be, a potential problem in an outdoor facility. We'll talk about the impacts of this being phased in over 5 or 10 years. That's construction equipment, that's noise, that's dirt, that's dust. There's an environmental impact. Then community services were mentioned. Fire, police, etc etc. I'll add neighborhood character. There will be impacts to the residents of Coddington Road, Spruce Way, Juniper Drive, they need to be looked at. You talk briefly about the siting, the alternatives on campus and then how this site could be used. That certainly has to be addressed in the environmental impact. You're video shows that exhaust tower almost like it has a light pointing up to the sky: (audience, no) Alright, but you know what I'm talking about. (Absolutely) Board Member Conneman — I think to reiterate -two things. One is that the little pieces do add up to a big impact, however you look at it. Somehow you have to convince us, I think, that you've got that under control. I think that that becomes very important. The second thing is, I can look at that flat area and I agree with Kevin that technology is marvelous, but sometimes a model that shows that...those gradations is very helpful. Some of the best presentations we've had, including the Warren Allmon of the Museum of the Earth, have been a model where we could see how those parking lots were going to be tucked into the hill and so forth. You guys who were in Ithaca, you know what I'm talking about. So sometimes a model may be better to give you the gradations of this thing, particular as it goes towards Coddington Road...anything else you can do. I love your technology, it's super. Board Member Howe — I just want to underscore community character. Just as you have to be concerned about the student experience, we're going to have to be really tuned into the community character. So I am glad that you've already had a meeting with the nearby neighbors. Mr. Kanter — You sort of glanced over some of the things on physical alterations, site grading, tree cutting, trying to preserve trees. Actually, we got some comments similar to those from the Environmental Review Committee, wetlands, trying to preserve as much of the woods as possible. So, certainly showing, as Eva has suggested, showing the topography and site features, even on some of the areas not directly impacted by development would be important for that. PB 1 -16 -07 Page 41 Chairperson Wilcox -- Yes, thank you. My apologies for skipping that. Public Comments Steve Rogers, 152 Coddington Road (Points out his house on the map) So my concerns are mostly what's happening (moves back in front of the microphone) So my concerns are mostly what's happening essentially north of that entrance going down to Coddington. Things that concern me are, and this may not be the appropriate time to talk about it but, some of the areas where some fill might be dumped, things like that. We've watched with some consternation over the past couple of years while the hill sort of behind us is slowly creeping towards us. But the other thing is the proposed perimeter road and the paths which I think we are a little concerned about because it seems to be decreasing the buffer space between Coddington Road and the college rather than increasing it or preserving it. Because now we are going to be surrounded by traffic on two sides. We don't know the amount of traffic that will be going on that perimeter road once it gets put in but you also have this pedestrian path so essentially we are going to be sandwiched in between Coddington and those pedestrians. We'd like to hear some more details abut what's going to go on there. We're concerned about the traffic there, also the erosion and the fact that the map makes it look like there is a lot more green space and buffer than there actually is, at least on that section of the road. As that hill behind us has expanded, that area where the walkway, where the perimeter road is shown, has actually narrowed quite a bit. It looks great on the map, but you can stand there and throw a rock and hit any of the houses along that section of the road. So again, some additional details on that might help us. What their reroutes of student traffic or not, that I couldn't say but it seems to me that the natural exit for all this stuff is going to be on Coddington Road. Eight or ten events per year, yeah you're going to have traffic cop[s out there and shunt those huge crowds over to the other exit but any college student that wants to get out of campus without driving around the circle is going to head for that exit and it is going to increase the traffic onto Coddington down to Hudson Street. I will wait to comment on the area of fill later on but, those are our concerns. As say, we feel a sort of increasing pressure and ... the college has been great. We don't have that many problems with the college as neighbors they have been very responsive to our concerns of lighting and things of that sort. But, every time we turn around and we see that hill grow a little closer to us it's like we're hearing the music from Jaws in the background. When is it finally going to snap shut on us. Marianne Rogers, Coddington Road I just want to add one short thing to my husbands comments and that is just to emphasize that the idea of having an inner walkway that takes pedestrian traffic off of Coddington actually, it may in fact encourage some students to walk within the PB 1 -16 -07 Page 42 campus but I do think that there will still be students walking down Coddington Road. There are no sidewalks, even within the city limits on Coddington and we really feel a lot of noise from that so having it behind our house and in front of our house and I'm sure people further down Coddington may also experience that problem, is of some concern to us and also whether any of those pathways will be lighted. So that's just an addendum to the previous statement. Rich DePaulo, Northview Road First of all, it was a great presentation. The best I have ever seen around here. From someone who does plan to be in the neighborhood for the next, god willing, 25 years, I have to say that my initial reaction is one of shock more than anything else. I think the building proposals are beautiful, I like the sustainability component, I think there is certainly a need on campus for these facilities. I feel that the orientation of the project, particularly the parking, really needs to be examined and perhaps readdressed. I think a hundred foot buffer when you're talking about a facility of this scope is basically, doesn't pass the laugh test. I mean, I can see.:.) have a hundred foot buffer between my house and my backyard neighbors and as soon as the leaves fall off the trees, there's basically no buffer at all. Sol agree with Ms. Hoffmann's idea that perhaps some of the parking could perhaps be stretched further to the south. I think that before we even acquiesce to that sort of modification, I'd like to see a more elaborate alternative proposal that goes along the lines of what Carl was saying about the facility being Iocated on the current playing fields. There was a parking drawback there, but it seems.to me that if it's simply a question of added expense or finding an area, ..of parking on the side of the campus where there is less residential impact, it is certainly worth exploring. One question that I have about the roundabout that may or may not happen is, there is sort of a north easterly spur that .shoots off to nowhere, where does that actually go? (Mr. Schmalenberger explains off - microphone) I guess I will just finish with a general comment which is that Carl mentioned that one of the other alternatives had been for the what he termed to be the "front yard" of the campus, but that the major drawback to that seemed to be that there was this big facility in plain view of the cars driving by from Route 96 and also that the roof of the facility would be visible from campus. Well, it seems to me that you don't have a problem, theoretically, locating the facility in the backyard of the neighborhood that it will be adjacent to. So I think that maybe one of the drawbacks and maybe one of the things that the college is gonna have to reexamine ... I mean it is a relatively small campus and there does appear to be real estate where a facility like this could go where it would certainly have less residential impact and I'd like to see those alternatives more fully explored. Thank you. Board Member Hoffmann — I have a follow -up question after a couple of you mentioned that the walkway and the roadway to go parallel with Coddington Road and I don't quite understand the purpose of that road. What was it called.. .a perimeter road. What is the purpose of that? I mean Coddington Road is there and PB 1 -16 -07 Page 43 there is already a road system on campus which you showed on another drawing when you talked about how traffic could be routed from this site to the route 96 site could go. So why put another road in there in the green space? Mr. Schmalenberger — The idea here is as the campus expands into this area, the current perimeter road essentially becomes a divider of the campus and as the campus expands we are trying to move the perimeter road out to the point where it won't have to move again. So the idea is that this campus will become much more pedestrian and what we're trying to do is kind of show the worst case. To go out to the edge of the property that they have under control to start to minimize these pedestrian auto conflicts within the campus so that the autos stay essentially to the outside and where this mast plan was going is that this perimeter road would tie in like this, granted, this north end is so far out there we can't even put a date on it, but the idea, as you can see, is that we are able to come in and tie in here to this. So essentially we are moving the road out to it's edge so this can basically become an all pedestrian campus between the buildings. That's the goal. Essentially it's a safety item within the. campus. And it doesn't make sense to allow that campus circulation.out on Coddington Road so we end up having to put up a parallel thoroughfare within the campus to accommodate that. Otherwise, yes, we would impact Coddington and that's obviously a very high concern. Board Member Hoffmann — Well there's another solution to that and that is to try and limit the amount of cars on campus. Then there would be a more pedestrian friendly atmosphere. But I know that that's not something that Ithaca College has been working to do, quite the contrary. The college has been trying to attract students by allowing them to bring cars. From what we have been told earlier. Mr. Schmalenberger — The College is trying to limit, to limit the cars, especially the freshman cars on it. But they're still getting freshman cars and trying to have them not use them and have them park them in the remote lot that we are trying to essentially replace as they exist now. Board Member Hoffmann — I'm just not sure that it would be very friendly to the people in the community who live around the campus to add as the lady who spoke a little while ago said, to add another road in back of their property with a lot of traffic when they already have one in front of their property. Maybe, in fact, it would be better to have all the traffic go on Coddington Road and Route 96 instead of building another one. Mr. Kanter — Now that I haven't agreed with that idea, I think something that the environmental impact statement could look at has to do with the large events planning and transit, public transportation /alternative transportation services to get people on and off campus I think would be something appropriate to look at and I think also some form of a traffic transportation routing plan for large events, although you don't know, necessarily yet, what the events are going to be you know the sizes and possible times and so I think one of the impact assessments and possible PB 1 -16 -07 Page 44 mitigation strategies would be coming up with some type of a traffic routing plan that would be more specific in terms of where cars would be going. And possibly satellite facilities with bus transportations. Those types. of things, I think, would be important. Chairperson Wilcox -- They do have some experience with the annual fireworks display. Board Member Hoffmann — I also noticed that you did show another possible part of a perimeter road going south. I would like to hear some more about what the plans are. Mr. Schmalenberger —That's purely, Eva, this parcel is roughly 80 some acres and it has some topography and some environmental wetland issues on it as well but there are portions within it that the college may want to access sometime in the future for dorms or whatever. So again, the thought is that can we at this point, plan for what the logical access might be, kind of worst case. This was our thought here, again, mainly to try and establish that buffer so that that buffer is established. The campus may find that, let's say, there dorms... right here is like the end of the upper towers parking areas, that's terraced up in there. Certainly extending under that power line and onto a shelf in this kind of steep area, much like the towers were done is certainly a possibility but at some point there may need ... this lot is going to become so long that safety is going to require that there be another tie in to kind of loop back down and to do that topography wise, it may take as long.as that to do something like that. So we were trying to look out in advance and try and ... again, try and set that edge so that this buffer is defined and is not, not extended into in the future. Board Member Hoffmann — I guess I would like to see, when you come back next time, that you put some more thought into trying to put those things, that perimeter road, if there has to be one, in a way that is less offensive to the residents along Coddington Road and which perhaps ties better into the parking areas, maybe you can relocate the parking areas so that a perimeter road has more direct contact with the parking areas also. So that you don't have to have all those things separately taking up a lot of land. And maybe if by doing that you can create a wider buffer between the residential area and the college structures. Board Member Conneman -- I think this is a good plan but it does... Cynically I could say "You don't want to put it in your front yard, you want to put it in some one else's backyard, see." That's sort of the feeling that I wonder if the neighbors have about that and it ... Lot Is of times when we get proposals, what happens is that the proposal is that this has gotta be the site but how closely have you examined the other sites. Cornell for example had to have a field for kids to play on during the summer, it had to be in point X and they examined all these places and they didn't tell us how they did it. You know it ended up in point Y because we said, wait a minute, look at the other facility. I'd like to see something about what it would look like in your front yard rather than in Rich's back yard. I think... PB 1 -16 -07 Page 45 Chairperson Wilcox — I think that if they. do a full environmental impact statement alternatives are something you look at... Board Member Conneman — They are going to have to do that anyway. Chairperson Wilcox — Alternatives is a reasonable thing to look at. Board Member Conneman — So that's a friendly suggestion, that's not critical, it's just that it seems to me that we always say NIMBY, not in my back yard but you guys ... you don't want it in your front yard. Chairperson Wilcox — I want to wrap this up if I can, do we have anything else? Board Member Talty — Yeah, Is it not feasible to have parking garages? Financially or ... It never seems as though these type of projects that people bring that up. They seem to want to spread out instead of go up. Mr. Schmalenberger — Yes, it translates into dollars on a project that is already very, very, tight. For instance, spaces in a parking garage are roughly $15,000 a space while parking on a surface is roughly $800 - $1,000, even with this challenged topo. That gives you a scale factor. We've talked about it but it very quickly, it takes the project out of it's ability to even accomplish it, or even a portion of it. Chairperson Wilcox -- That doesn't mean it something that we may want... Board Member Talty — That they won't build... Board Member Conneman — You could charge for it. People who go to athletic events pay to park. I believe they do that in Columbus, OH, I've been there. Chairperson Wilcox — We have a couple more things to get to. Do you have everything, collectively, in terms of the feedback? Mr. Schmalenberger — Yeah, good comments. Ms. Brock — Before you move on ... Do you want to have this Board to discuss how they want this DEIS process to unfold? It sounded like Ithaca College is making a commitment to doing one, do we want them to just submit the DEIS, do you want scooping first? Scoping is optional... What's the Board's pleasure on how the process will unfold? Chairperson Wilcox — Alright, let me take a stab at it. Collectively, this Board has mentioned, and Staff has mentioned numerous items that we think an environmental impact statement needs to address. If a document could be drawn up, a scooping like document that says that we propose that the PB 1 -16 -07 Page 46 environmental impact statement address the following areas of concerns, which are the ones we've just outlined, I would want a. chance to review that to see if we would potentially add something or subtract something... The understanding being that once you've defined the scope, you can't continue to add to it. That's the purpose of defining the scope. I appreciate the fact that they are willing to proceed because this Board, frankly, could decide that a full environmental impact statement was required, given the scope of the project. I would. like to have a scope agreed upon whether we actually have a public scooping session or not. I think we pretty much hit all the areas of environmental concern that may or may not require some sort of mitigation. Mr. Kanter I guess another question is do you want a public scooping process, getting further public comment. Board Member Hoffmann — What's your recommendation, Jon. Mr. Kanter — I don't really have one. I think that the Board totally has the discretion or working with the applicant to determine how it works. Ms. Brock — If you do scooping, you have to provide an opportunity for public participation. It doesn't have to be public hearings... Chairperson Wilcox — And tonight would not count. We would have to advertise, and we should. Ms. Brock — So whether or not you do scooping is optional. If you choose to do scooping then you do need to allow for public participation in some form. Chairperson Wilcox — In some reasonable form. Board Member Hoffmann — I think this project is big enough so that it could have a very significant impact on the whole area in various ways so I think it is important that we look at it very thoroughly and.. Board Member Conneman -- If you don't have scooping by the public in this case, when would you ever have it. I mean, a large project over a period of years. Chairperson Wilcox — To formally invite the public in to inform us with their areas of concern so that we can decide whether to add those issues to the scooping document which will determine what's in the environmental impact statement, I think is appropriate. Ms. Brock — I am just trying to remember these procedures and SEQR ... because they do have the option just, instead of having to go through the environmental assessment and determination of /significance, they can just give you a draft EIS, I don't know if that was what their intent was ... I'm just trying to see how it all fits together procedurally.... PB 1 -16 -07 Page 47 Chairperson Wilcox — Maybe we could leave this for discussion in two weeks...three weeks,.. Ms. Brock — That'd be fine. I think that Ithaca College obviously doesn't want to go to all the time and expense of preparing a DEIS without having some assurance that it is in fact doing to be acceptable in terms of content to this Board. They don't want to sort of just take a stab at it and then find out there are huge areas that we are going to make them go and redo or add. Chairperson Wilcox — Nor do they want to spend the money on issues that we're not concerned about. Ms. Brock — Right, so I think what I need to do is look a the regulations on as a whole, figure out how this all fits together, and we can revisit this at the next meeting. Chairperson Wilcox - Yes, just for a discussion item. Ms. Brock -- And maybe have some discussions with Ithaca College too to see if everybody will be ending up on the same page. Chairperson Wilcox — Yup, next meeting is in three weeks... Board Member Hoffmann — The other thing that I thought of that it would be very useful to have is a site visit. And to ask any of the other Boards too. Chairperson Wilcox — I think it would be important to go out and explore. the topography in that area and get a ... Mr. Kanter — Yes, for both this and the next project. Chairperson Wilcox — David's got his hand up and Rich has got his hand up. David Herrick, TG .Miller Co. In terms of the scooping process, does that mean that you will get us something in writing before the next meeting? Or we should come to the next meeting? Or I'm not sure what I should do. Chairperson Wilcox — I am looking for advice from the Town Attorney. Mr. Kanter — I think that Susan and I will talk about it and we will probably be in touch with you and we may ask you to come to the next meeting. To talk about it more. Mr. Herrick — Okay, that's fine. PB 1 -16 -07 Page 48 Chairperson Wilcox announces the next agenda item at 9:50 p.m. Sketch Plan Review Consideration of a sketch plan for the proposed Ithaca College Fill Disposal Site located north of Emerson Hall on the Ithaca College campus, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No.'s 41 -1 -24 and 41 -1 -12.2, Medium Density Residential Zone. The proposal involves placing approximately 25,500 cubic yards of fill over a +/- 2.85 - acre area during the next five years. The fill will come from various construction projects on campus and the site will be graded and seeded as fill is deposited. Ithaca College, Owner/ Applicant; Richard Couture, Agent. David Herrick, T.G. Miller Engineers & Surveyors As we've indicated in the handout materials, it came to the attention of the Town that the filling activity that has occurred here for some time may have had some negative influence on an adjacent property. We don't know who it was that came.forth to the Town and it's insignificant but we were advised that it was necessary to come to this Board and ask for permission through the permit process or Planning board approval process to continue utilizing the Emerson Hall fill site for various construction projects. So we put together what we think is a realistic culmination of the grading that may occur at that site and in essence it amounts to about the 25,000cubic yards of material that could be placed there. Doesn't need to be 25,000 but it is within a footprint that the campus believes is reasonable, will accommodate several projects; this is not being proposed for any specific project. Historically we have had other projects apparently use it and there are projects now under construction, some that have been recently approved and obviously the A &E Center may find this site of benefit to use as opposed to hauling waste material, or surplus material, off the campus onto the local and state road systems. As I've commented or quoted in my submission package here, it's very conceivable that 51,000 return dump truck trips could be kept internal to the campus system. instead of having to take material off to lands either in the Town or outside of the Town or outside of the County. Which would have significant expense. So, what I have prepared is a simple grading plan that will show how the site may ultimately look and be stabilized in the future, which we think is a 5 -6 year window. In essence the toe of the slope or the area where the steep slope and the existing contours come together will move north between 80 and 100 feet. The majority of the fill will actually reside up near the current playing field. There'll be an additional 8 -10 feet of material that will help level off a part of the fill area such that the green lawn open areas can be expanded beyond what they currently are behind Emerson Hall. The contours that are represented in the plan are not etched in stone, they can certainly be modified, but it did represent a natural culmination of the fill pile as it relates to the future possible perimeter road that you saw presented tonight for the A & E Center. PB 1 -16 -07 Page 49 With respect to stormwater management and erosion and sediment control I believe it's appropriate that any campus project that utilizes this site will have to address the maintenance, the stabilization and the protections that are expected of the State ( ?) permits in their individual approvals. It's actually a component of the state permit that expects a project using a borrow or fill area to make clear how erosion and sediment control will be eliminated at those sites. So for instance, the A &E Center, if they are going to use this area for some disposal, would have to include a stormwater pollution prevention plan, all of those measures that are expected to control erosion and sediment problems. With respect to any permanent practices, the hydrology of the site won't change significantly as a result of the final fill placement. The watershed that this area drains to is at the corner of Codddington and Hudson. The college owns all the land from where the water is concentrated to the point where it enters into the Coddington and Hudson Road system and as I have mentioned in here, if for any reason permanent practices are required for controlling stormwater, there's ample land in which to do them. One case for having permanent controls in this area might be for the perimeter road. The addition of impervious surfaces from that project may need to have permanent practices located down gradient from them in that in the corner of the college property. So.that's the proposal and I'd be happy to answer any questions. Board Member Hoffmann — Could you point to that larger map, like before, to where the site is that we are talking about. Mr. Herrick — That's Emerson Hall and that's the playing field as it existed, I'm not sure of the date of this map, I would guess maybe ... go ... It's two or three years old ... So the fill site is here and you can see that it was active at the time of this photo and we are talking about expanding to the north in that area. Board Member Hoffmann — Could you describe the topography of the rest of the green area around there. We see some of it on the drawings that you have provided.... Mr. Herrick — The steep slopes associated with fill that was placed in this area and I don't honestly know if it was attributed to the Emberson Hall construction entirely or not, but the steep slopes are the darker green area right here and then there's a much flatter sloped area abutting the adjacent properties and that flatter area continues all the way through here. There's still slope to it but the steep area are right in this arc that I am creating and what we're showing in our grading is approximately a 2'/2 to 1 slope condition. A 3 on 1 slope is something that you would consider mowable, maintainable ... We are looking at planting on the fill slopes that would not have to be maintained. PB 1 -16 -07 Page 50 Board Member Hoffmann — Why are you proposing such a geometrical or severe shape of the fill rather than more natural shape to it? Mr. Herrick — If you want to take a look at the vicinity map, it's C1 in your handout. I am just looking at creating a final edge that gets rid of some of the undulations in topography that exist there now as a result of some of the prior filling and again, if there wanted to be some adjustments in the grading for aesthetic reasons, that can certainly be done but,...We are essentially looking to utilize as much of that area that has already been disturbed and re- contouring it and then again, filling in it at the top. Being able to expand the open area, the leveler area right behind Emerson,Hall. Board Member Hoffmann = I guess I am wondering if the fill is placed in a certain way in order to be able to use the space that is created by the fill for something, like future construction of buildings and such. Mr. Herrick — I don't think that you will find future building pads suitable for this material. It's too deep and it's probably been placed in a manner where controlled compaction hasn't occurred. So to put any type of structure there would require some pretty significant and expensive foundation work, so this isn't being developed with future building pads in mind. Board Member Hoffmann — So if that's not the case, why would the_fill have to be concentrated in this area? Why couldn't it be spread out more to the west? Mr. Herrick — Well, we start to bump into vegetation that should stay. Going to the northwest, you will hit trees that... right in here ... there is a triangle of trees, and I am infringing somewhat with the toe of the slope on this edge of the vegetation and we've identified in the drawing some of the more substantial trees that exist at that interface and so I have purposely withheld from going further to the northwest and infringing on the vegetation that's there. It's open here. Board Member Hoffmann — I just feel resistance to creating such a very steep slope, not only to the east as where it is now but also going further north and then coming around and having a western orientated slope that's also very steep and there are these straight lines. Is there any attempt to terrace ?. Is that what it is. Mr. Herrick — There isn't any terracing represented in my grading. I suppose that some could be to step down to the north. There could be some shelves in there, if you would, to break up the continuous nature of that side fill. Chairperson Wilcox — The downside is that increases the area that has fill placed on it. Board Member Thayer — Increases the drainage problem. PB 1 -16 -07 Page 51 Chairperson Wilcox -- Feel like you're between a rock and a hard place? I know what you mean. It would be great to get it off the site but we know the issues of all the truck traffic that that involves. Board Member Hoffmann — What about other places on campus? Mr. Herrick — I haven't looked at any other places on campus. Rick, is there any thought... Mr. Couture from the audience, not audible. Board Member Talty — If you look at alternative spots, aren't you really shooting yourself in the foot for later development? You'd have to move it again. Chairperson Wilcox — This area is disturbed, has been disturbed, has. a history of fill being... Board Member Talty — The other areas they looked at putting the previous... that . looks like that could be further development in the future for whatever type of building. So if you put the fill there, you'd have to move it or go through some other type, you'd have to find bedrock, etc etc. This is like the best of the worst. Chairperson Wilcox -- Let me remind everybody that it is 10:05 p.m. Board Member Hoffmann — I thought that part of the reason that we are talking about this tonight is because there has been some fill happening on this site which should not have happened. It did not have approval. Isn't that right? All — Yes. Mr. Smith — There are two parts to what's in front of you. What's been done in the past that hasn't been approved and then they are taking the opportunity to show future fill that is going to go into this area from other projects on campus. So there is kind of the two pieces to what we have here. Board Member Thayer — So when it is done, it will look better than what it does now. Board Member Hoffmann — But it isn't just a question of aesthetics and I don't know if that what is being proposed would look better, necessarily, to my eye anyway. But it's not just a question of aesthetics but it's a question of maybe too much fill being put in this one place and it having an effect on neighbors, a negative effect on neighbors I would say. PB 1 -16 -07 Page 52 Board Member Conneman — The fill will be added over how many years? You talked about years before. 5 years? 10 years? Mr. Herrick — We are looking at a 5 -6 year window of closing this out. Chairperson Wilcox — I do want to give the public a chance to speak. Steve Rogers, Coddington Road I am dismayed to hear that we are going to lose another 80 -100 feet of buffer between us and the college. If you guys go and visit .the site, which I think you should do, as they said, some of the photos are out of date, so in fact where the dumping went on, it's actually more extensive, that hillside is much closer to us than it might otherwise appear. You can stand at the top of that hill which is being used as a parking lot and you can wave to me at my back window and I'll be happy to wave back. I assure you that it is close enough that it is very clear. I guess my concern would be that the college is going to continue to expansion that way then what they really should be talking about is buying out the property owners there because there is going to be very little left between them and that ( ?) between 96B and Coddington, that's just the fact of the matter. Despite the fact that the hydrology is going to remain unchanged, it's not much of a consolation because our yards are all being noticeably wetter and not just because of climate change or a rainy season but we have had drainage problems and there was an effort, I guess, by putting in a silt fence along the baseline of that hill to remedy that, I can't say whether or not it has had any effect or not. By the way, we were not the ones to complain. Whoever did it has my blessing, but it wasn't us. We would be concerned, and this is one of increasing importance... One is the nature of the fill. That they assure us that it will be clean fill, I'll take their word for that. I am sure we can get it tested or whatever. The second thing would be the work, length of time and work hours. I'm a little disturbed that we can look forward to five more years of dump trucks up there and despite the fact that initially we were told the work hours would be from 8:00 until 5:00 or whatever, I can assure you it goes on earlier than that. When the work is lagging behind, the foreman is going to tell his guy, yeah go there a half an hour earlier or a half an hour later and do what you have to do to make up for lost time. So, it's more than just truck engines running back and forth. When the snow trucks start dumping their fill down and the bed of the truck goes down you have to go through a couple of shot -gun blasts of the tail end of that truck slamming closed. So it's anything but bucolic or restful. The third is more what we were talking about before and that is the reduction of that buffer zone. A dramatic reduction of that buffer zone and that would be the thing that would concern me most. Leaving aside the fact that the hill is going to be unsightly because of the gradation and it's no great shakes now. Once again, I think you need to go there. You need to walk around, not only on top of the hill but you need to walk in the fields between those two and see what some of the problems are PB 1 -16 -07 Page 53 there.. Some of that land is private land, actually, that is between the college and Coddington Road. One of the problems, I suspect, is they can't do a lot of dumping there because it is property they don't own but the tree line. Anyway, the issue of drainage and runoff are of some concern and I am not sure what it means when you put in a perimeter road there might have to be "permanent practices" employed. I don't know what that means ... I'd be curious to gbet a better definition of that. What I see is another road, more traffic, now behind me as well as in front of me. Those are my concerns. The anecdotal evidence from the neighbors is again, we aren't the only ones suffering from some of the drainage problems, In fact the college does own that point of land where the water is sort of funneled out at the intersection of Hudson and Coddington Street. I guess the solution was that was going to be the entrance to college and the grade was too severe. I also (inaudible) confluence of you're going to have water flowing down there and you are also going to have the students flowing down there all onto that intersection of Hudson, Pennsylvania and Coddington Roads. It's going to be an interesting mix. Marrianne Rogers, Coddington Road I'll second everything Steve said. I just would like to emphasize that we have lived in our house for 11 years and we have been experiencing first hand this dumping for a large part of that time and these trucks have been there at 7;)) in the morning and occasionally on Saturdays too. And our backyard is in full view of this area and it really impacts our quality of life there. In fact, our dog is pretty terrified of the dump truck sounds and everything else so ... I can't imagine that some of the other neighbors are not affected by that, including some that are on the side as you are going out Coddington on the side of that hill. So, that would be my addition to. that but I think that Steve covered our concerns pretty well. Chairperson Wilcox —The county has made the recommendation that the approval of the fill site be linked to consideration of the new athletic facility. Thinking that, the reason being that much of the ...David is looking perplexed... Did you see the county 239 review? Mr. Herrick — I did but I guess I didn't interpret it that way. Chairperson Wilcox -- "The portion of the site will receive fill from the proposed athletic and events center should be considered and evaluated as part of that proposal and SEQR." 1 mean it ... They put the thought in our mind, I'm not...it's quarter after ten right now... Mr. Walker — I think David addressed that when he stated that any work on that site that is stormwater pollution prevention plan, the SWPPP, would be the responsibility of the contractor on whatever construction site they would be working on on campus and using that site as a disposal site. So from that stand point, yes that would be PB 1 -16 -07 Page 54 included in that project. If they move 10,000 yards from the athletic center to that site, then we would be looking at how they would be transporting that and ... Mr. Herrick — Correct. The timing is just such that these two projects have come together. This could have happened last year and we could have been talking about this in conjunction with the Business School or with the Admin building... Chairperson Wilcox — Maybe should have happened last year... Board Member Conneman — David, my concern is how do we address the.concerns of the Rogers? It seems to me they have real concerns. Chairperson Wilcox — When Ithaca College come back for an approval, we'll see what they come back with and see what they have been able to do to address the concerns of their neighbors. Board Member Howe — I really feel the need for a site visit. Chairperson Wilcox — yeah, this one will be a little easier than tromping through the.., Mr. Kanter — Well, if we can get enough people out we can go over and see at least closer in areas of the athletic center. Not all the way down but, .We'll call around because some Conservation Board members are interested also: Mr. Herrick — Thank you. I understand your comments and concerns as well as the neighbors. Chairperson Wilcox announces the next agenda item. Nomination and Election of Vice Chairperson for 2007. Chairperson Wilcox — Couple of comments. First of all, what's my status as a member of this Board. My lease is up the end of May, I am actively seeking to purchase a property, not a specific property, but to purchase. 50/50, 60/40 1 may not be a resident of the Town of Ithaca come the end of May. I'd love to stay in the Town but... Having said that, whoever this Board appoints as vice chair, not only obviously fills in when I'm not available, but you're also sending a message to the Town Board about who you might want them to appoint as Chair should I have to resign because I move out of the jurisdiction. Board Member Hoffmann — I don't think that's necessarily true. Chairperson Wilcox — The alternative is that should I resign, would this Board be happy with the Vice Chair becoming the Chair. PB 1 -16 -07 Page 55 Board. Member Howe — Can't those two issues be decoupled? Chairperson Wilcox — They could be. Board Member Howe — Is there something that says automatically that the ...can't we just make an exception that the Chair can not live in the Town of Ithaca.... Chairperson Wilcox — (inaudible) if somebody has earned the respect of this Board to become the Vice Chair that presumably they could also be the Chair. Ms. Brock — The Town Board appoints the Chair, so whoever you name as Vice Chair does not automatically by default become Chair if the Chair resigns. Chairperson Wilcox — Right, right but clearly, I think that there is a signal sent to the Town Board that... Board Member Talty — Right, right ... do the members of the Planning Board have to live in the Town of Ithaca? Ms. Brock — Yes, they have to be residents of the Town of Ithaca. Board Member Conneman -_ Having moved and been asked to leave the Bolton Point Water Commission because I moved three blocks.... Board Member Howe — I nominate Eva Hoffmann to be Vice Chair. Chairperson Wilcox — Eva, is you're name in the ring? Board Member Hoffmann — It's been a very easy job with you as Chair so I don't mind doing it and ...with the understanding that if you have to resign we will look at it again. To me it doesn't necessarily follow that whoever is Vice Chair automatically becomes the Chair. Board Member Talty — Can I make another nomination? (absolutely) I'd like to nominate Rod Howe. Board Member Howe — I think I decline at this time. ADOPTED RESOLUTION: PB RESOLUTION NO. 2007 = 012 Nomination and Election Planning Board Vice Chairperson 2007 Planning Board, January 16, 2007 MOTION made by Rod Howe, seconded by George Conneman PB 1 -16 -07 Page 56 RESOLVED, that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board does hereby nominate and elect Eva Hoffmann as Vice Chairperson of.the Planning Board for the year 2007. FURTHER RESOLVED, that said election shall be reported to the Town Board. The vote on the motion resulted as follows: AYES: Wilcox, Conneman, Thayer, Howe, Talty. NAYS: None. ABSTAIN: Hoffmann. The vote on the motion was carried. Approval of Minutes: December 19, 2006 and January 2, 20070 ADOPTED RESOLUTION: PB RESOLUTION NO. 2007 - 013 APPROVAL OF MINUTES. DECEMBER 195 2006 TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD JANUARY 16, 2007 MOTION by Chairperson Wilcox, seconded by Board Member Talty. RESOLVED, that the Planning Board does hereby approve and. adopts the December 19, 2006 minutes as the official minutes of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board for the said meeting with corrections. The vote on the motion resulted as follows: AYES: Wilcox, Conneman, Thayer, Howe, Hoffmann and Tally. NAYS: None. The vote on the motion was carried unanimously. ADOPTED RESOLUTION: PB RESOLUTION NO. 2007 =I 014 APPROVAL OF MINUTES: JANUARY 2, 2007 TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD JANUARY 16, 2007 MOTION by Chairperson Wilcox, seconded by Board Member Talty. RESOLVED, that the Planning Board does hereby approve and adopts the December 19, 2006 minutes as the official minutes of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board for the said meeting. PB 1 -16 -07 Page 57 The vote on the motion resulted as follows: AYES: Wilcox, Conneman, Thayer, Howe, Hoffmann and Talty. NAYS: None. The vote on the motion was carried. Other Business Next meeting subjects. Adjournment Meeting was adjourned at 10:28 p.m. Res 6c ully s mitted: Paulette 'Neilsen Deputy Town Clerk TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD 215 North Tioga Street Ithaca, New York 14850 Tuesday, January 16, 2007 AGENDA 7:00 P.M. Persons to be heard (no more than five minutes). 7:05 P.M. SEQR Determination: Duffy 3 -Lot Subdivision, 1301 & 1305 Hanshaw Road. 7:05 P.M. PUBLIC HEARING: Consideration of Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval for the proposed 3- lot subdivision located at 1301 & 1305 Hanshaw Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No.'s 70 -12 -1 and 70- 12 -2.2, Medium Density Residential Zone. The proposal involves subdividing off the southern portions of the two existing lots to create one new +/- 1.381 -acre lot (Parcel C) located on Warren Road, and modifying the location of the lot line between Parcels A ( +/- 0.762- acres) and B ( +/- 0.860- acres). Gary & Donna Duffy, Owners /Applicants. This is a modification of the 3 -lot subdivision approved by the Town of Ithaca Planning Board on June 20, 2006. The proposal has been slightly modified to now include the large garage on Parcel A, and therefore not requiring any variances. 7:15 P.M. PUBLIC HEARING: Consideration of a Recommendation to the Town of Ithaca Town Board regarding a proposed local law amending provisions in Chapter 270, Zoning, of the Town of Ithaca Code regarding home occupations. 7:25 P.M. PUBLIC HEARING: Consideration of a Recommendation to the Town of Ithaca Zoning Board of Appeals regarding sign variances to allow five banners /signs celebrating PRI's 751h Anniversary, located at 1259 Trumansburg Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No, 24- 3 -3:1, Low Density Residential Zone. Paleontological Research Institution (PRI), Owner /Applicant; Amy Naim, Agent. The proposal is to install four banner -like signs on utility poles along Trumansburg Road, each sign measuring 2' by 6' (12 square feet), and one 10' by 4' (40 square feet) banner -like sign mounted on posts near the PRI driveway entrance. The signs would stay up for the duration of 2007. 7:45 P.M. Consideration of a sketch plan for the proposed Ithaca College Athletics and Events Center located on the eastern side of the Ithaca College campus near the Coddington Road campus entrance, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No.'s 41 -1 -30.2, 41 -1 -24, and 42- 1 -9.2, Medium Density Residential Zone. The proposal includes the construction of a +/- 300,000 square foot field house building (containing a 200M track, indoor field for practices and games, seating and floor space for large events, Olympic size pool and diving well, indoor tennis courts, rowing center, strength and conditioning center, etc.) an outdoor - lighted artificial turf field and 400M track, and the creation of 900 +/- parking spaces (550 existing parking spaces moved and 350 new parking spaces). The project is proposed in several phases and will also include.new walkways, access roads, stormwater facilities, outdoor lighting, and landscaping. Ithaca College, Owner /Applicant; Richard Couture, Agent. 8:15 P.M. Consideration of a sketch plan for the proposed Ithaca College Fill Disposal Site located north of Emerson Hall on the Ithaca College campus, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No.'s 41 -1 -24 and 41 -1- 12.2, Medium Density Residential Zone. The proposal involves placing approximately 25,500 cubic yards of fill over a +/- 2.85 -acre area during the next five years. The fill will come from various construction projects on campus and the site will be graded and seeded as fill is deposited. Ithaca College, Owner/ Applicant; Richard Couture, Agent. 8. Nomination and Election of Vice Chairperson for 2007. TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARINGS Tuesday, January 16, 2007 By direction of the Chairperson of the Planning Board, NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that Public Hearings will be held by the Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca on Tuesday, January 16, 2007, at 215 North Tioga Street, Ithaca, N.Y., at the following times and on the following matters: 7:05 P.M. Consideration of Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval for the proposed 3 -lot subdivision located at 1301 & 1305 Hanshaw Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No.'s 70- 12-1 and 70- 12 -2.2, Medium Density Residential Zone. The proposal involves subdividing off the southern portions of the two existing lots to create one new +/- 1.381 - acre lot (Parcel C) located on Warren Road, and modifying the location of the lot line between Parcels A ( +/- 0.762- acres) and B (-+ /- 0.860- acres). Gary & Donna Duffy, Owners /Applicants. This is a modification of the 3 -lot subdivision approved by the Town of Ithaca Planning Board on June 20, 2006. The proposal has been slightly modified to now include the large garage on Parcel A, and therefore not requiring any variances. 7:15 P.M. Consideration of a Recommendation to the Town of Ithaca Town Board regarding a proposed local law amending provisions in Chapter 270, Zoning, of the Town of Ithaca Code regarding home occupations. 7:25 P.M. Consideration of a Recommendation to the Town of Ithaca Zoning Board of Appeals regarding sign variances to allow five banners /signs celebrating PRI's 75`h Anniversary, located at 1259 Trumansburg Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 24- 3 -3.1, Low Density Residential Zone. Paleontological Research Institution (PRI), Owner /Applicant; Amy Naim, Agent. The proposal is to install four banner -like signs on utility poles along Trumansburg Road, each sign measuring 2' by 6' (12 square feet), and one 10' by 4' (40 square feet) banner -like sign mounted on posts near the PRI driveway entrance. The signs would stay up for the duration of 2007. Said Planning Board will at said times and said place hear all persons in support of such matters or objections thereto. Persons may appear by agent or in person. Individuals with visual impairments, hearing impairments or other special needs, will be provided with assistance as necessary, upon request. Persons desiring assistance must make such a request not less than 48 hours prior to the time of the public hearings. Jonathan Kanter, AICP Director of Planning 273 -1747 Dated: Friday, January 5, 2007 Publish: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 OF ITHACA ` ,PWNNING.BOARD 4 NOTICEz F•PUBUC ,J Wednesday, January 10,1007 THE ITHACA JOURNAL FIEARINGS i Tuesday, p January 16, 2007 I By djrbchon of,"ihe Chair t il':.nrenn - I] 'llin .. Plnnninn 1 i :: `,proposed 3-Pot subdi r located at ".1301 . )5 ' Hanshow =Roa vo of Ithaca Tax Parc :;s :70 12 -1 and. 70-1 rg . tots "'to create =one I .C) (located on: War -; ;oad; -and modifying' icationr 6f the ,I" 5,line ten. ParceV , +/ I ?acres rand`, BI ( +/. )-acres) 'Gary & bbon uffy, Owners/ Applr his.'is a.modittica- if:: the.3=lot subdivision ived by the Town: of i• Planning Board on d 20, :2006: -The -pro- i ;has been slightly ied,to•now.include.the fierefore. not: requiring'. ancinces:' 5,11P:M. Consideration. recommendation to the •_ of Ithaca Town Board re-- of dl. .1Resedreh- :'Institution 'RI) Owner %Applicant l 4my, Naim ,Agent The; ropo"sal is'._to- install ;four_; anner- like'signs`on: utilityi; ales; dlong; ='Truinansburg'; odd each sign measuring'; by 6. 1� (12, squ6re feet, nd one 10' :by; 4' I40 quare :; feet) banner 16 4n -mounted on'posts near Ie PRI_,driveway entrance. i he sigiii ;would.st up for t !e duration'of 200D Said "Planning Board ,will t: -said times and ::said. or: Inalvlal npoirmenh cents or 'c ds ;will.be 'assistance' of ,the.,''publii wreaor or: reammn 273 =174 ated: Friday, " JBnudryry 5; 2007 , . , u61is6•..Wndnncdnv_ :<' Town of Ithaca Planning Board 215 North Tioga Street January 16, 2006 7:00 p.m. PLEASE SIGN4N Please Print Clearly, Thank You Name %rrevi / /1140M �Address G t G; 1,nte�c it WL <' j.. ZS /Z. C1 TOWN OF ITHACA AFFIDAVIT OF POSTING AND PUBLICATION I, Sandra Polce, being duly sworn, depose and say that I am a Senior Typist for the Town of Ithaca, Tompkins County, New York; that the following Notice has been duly posted on the sign board of the Town of Ithaca and that said Notice has been duly published in the local newspaper, The Ithaca Journal. Notice of Public Hearings to be held by the Town of Ithaca Planning Board in the Town of Ithaca Town Hall 215 North Tioga Street Ithaca New York on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 commencing at 7:00 P.M., as per attached. Location of Sign Board used for Posting: Town Clerk Sign Board — 215 North Tio ag Street. Date of Posting: Date of Publication: January 8, 2007 January 10, 2007 Sandra Polce, Senior Typist Town of Ithaca STATE OF NEW YORK) SS: COUNTY OF TOMPKINS) Sworn to and subscribed before me this 10`h day of January 2007. �� U 41� Notary Public CONNIE F. CLARK Notary Public, State of New York No. 01CL6052878 Oualified in Tompkins County Commission Expires December 26, 20 1 C�