HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB Minutes 2006-01-17FILE
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REGULAR MEETING
TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD
TUESDAY, JANUARY 17, 2006
215 NORTH TIOGA STREET
ITHACA, NEW YORK
PRESENT
Fred Wilcox, Chairpersons Eva Hoffmann, Board Members George Conneman, Board
Member; Tracy Mitrano, Board Member; Larry Thayer, Board Member; Rod Howe,
Board Member; Kevin Talty, Board Member; Jonathan Kanter, Director of Planning;
Susan Brock, Attorney for the Town; Mike Smith, Environmental Planners Nicole
Tedesco, Planners Carrie Coates Whitmore, Deputy Town Clerk,
EXCUSED
Susan Ritter, Assistant Director of Planning; Christine Balestra, Planner.
OTHERS
Bruce Brittain, 135 Warren Rd; Doug Brittain, 135 Warren Rd; Bob Drew, Hunt
Engineers; Laura Meilman, 131 Campbridge PI; Lydia White, 505 The Parkway;
Jonathan Miller, 4 The Byways Carl Sundell, 310 Forest Home Dr; Deborah Perotti, 310
Forest Home Dr; John Sundell, 310 Forest Home Dr; Sheila Danko, 229 Forest Home
Dr; Linda Blossom, Lansing; Bruce Abbott, Lansing, Angela Slama, Lansing; Nancy
Schuler, East Hill, Annette Marchesseault, Trowbridge & Wolf, Herb Engman, 120
Warren Rd; Bill Wendt, Cornell University; Siisan Stephans, 145 Forest Home Dr; Karen
Westmont, 206 Forest Home Dr; Carol Devini, 201 Dewitt PI; Steve Beyers, 1328
Slaterville Rd; Dani. Novak, 115 Halcyon Hill Rd; Wally Wiggins, 961 Taughannock Blvd;
Bonnie Warren, 2028 Elmira Rd; Kathryn Wolf, Trowbridge & Wolf; Shirley Egan, Cornell
University Counsel; George Alexiou.
CALL TO ORDER
Chairperson Wilcox declares the meeting duly opened at 7:06 p.m., and accepts for the
record Secretary's Affidavit of Posting and Publication of the Notice of Public Hearings in
Town Hall and the Ithaca Journal on January 9, 2006 and January 11, 2006, together
with the properties under discussion, as appropriate, upon the Clerks of the City of
Ithaca and the Town of Danby, upon the Tompkins County Commissioner of Planning,
upon the Tompkins County Commissioner of Public Works, and upon the applicants
and /or agents, as appropriate, on January 11, 20068
Chairperson Wilcox states the Fire Exit Regulations to those assembled, as required by
the New York State Department of State, Office of Fire Prevention and Control.
OTHER BUSINESS
Chairperson Wilcox I will point out for the record that George
sentenced to another 7 year term. I have also been reappointed
Chair for another year and that both of us took the Oath of Offs
this evening. ,
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Conneman has been
by the Town Board as
ce before you arrived
For those of you who haven't met Susan Brock, Town Attorney.
appointed by the Town Board at the Organizational meeting on Monday
worked with Codes and Ordinances for the past year.
Ms. Brock — Two years.
Chairperson Wilcox — Two year? It's been two years?
Board Member Mitrano — Time flies.
She was
She has
Chairperson Wilcox — Susan has also had a role, as you know, with the TGEIS. She was
in the audience during the two public hearings and actually spoke at the last one and
will clarify her role then and now just to make sure there is no conflict when we get to
that.
PERSONS TO BE HEARD
Chairperson Wilcox invited any member of the audience wishing to address the Board
on matters not on the agenda to come forward. There was no one present wishing to
address the Board.
Chairperson Wilcox — With regard to the proposed transportation focused TGEIS, this is
not a public hearing this evening. We have provided two public hearings so far and the
purpose of tonight's discussion is for the board to provide input and see if we can come
to a decision of if we need to post -pone it to another meeting. We will have to wait
and see. I ask, and I'm looking at the Brittains sitting there because they have done so
much work, that you hang around and be available should we have a question for you.
We would like to be able to get clarification on some of your opinions, if necessary,
when we get to it.
SEQR
La Tourelle Room Expansion & Spa Addition Modifications, 1150 Danby Road
Chairperson Wilcox opens this segment of the meeting at 7:06 p.m.
Chairperson Wilcox — Would you provide an overview of what is in front of us this
evening?
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Walter Wiggins, 961 Taughannock Blvd
Mr. Wiggins I think just a revision of our proposal to accommodate the suggestions
and concerns about our young neighbors across the street by relocating some of the
parking spaces that they found offensive. I had to give up ... being a tennis player it was
very difficult to give up two tennis courts, but in the interest of good will and I think it
was the proper thing to do, we relocated the parking spaces down where the tennis
courts are. We will actually use the tennis courts as the base for the parking lots. I
think everything else is just the way that it was.
Chairperson Wilcox — Questions with .regard to the environmental review?
Board Member Thayer — Nope. I move the SEQR.
Chairperson Wilcox — Bear with me for just a sec?
Board Member Thayer — Sure.
Chairperson Wilcox — Wally, what are you going to do with the fill that was dumped in
the location of the parking lot that is no longer going to be used?
Mr. Wiggins — My understanding is, and I didn't want to do anything until I knew what
you were going to do, but my understanding is either it has been too soft or too hard to
do anything with and we will wait until your approval and then we will cover that with
topsoil. So that rather than remove it because it was in kind of a hollow to begin with,
so we will spread it out, put it in topsoil and plant it with grass.
Board Member Hoffmann — Didn't that hollow area have a function?
Mr. Wiggins — Not really. It was always a bit soggy. in that area. So this fill will serve a
real purpose and aesthetically I don't think you will be able to tell the difference.
Board Member Hoffmann — I think if it was soggy before it is probably going to be
soggy in the future, too, if you just leave that fill there because I don't think that is
drained. The fill doesn't drain it in any way. So it is probably going to remain soggy.
Mr. Wiggins — I don't know that. It's not my area of expertise. It just seemed like an
appropriate solution to the problem. So that is what we would do. I suppose it could
be removed, but it wouldn't serve a purpose that I know of. Indeed, when we are
finished, it will look just like it looked before and no one except perhaps you and me
will know that it is different.
Board Member Talty — As long as that is not going to be the overflow parking because if
you have it already down there and its hard, lets just say that water goes to the lowest
spot and its now not the lowest spot because there has been times where there has
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been overflow parking right on 96B because that would be the same issues that the
neighbors would have. I just want to make that clear.
Mr. Wiggins — Its clear. Thank you.
Chairperson Wilcox — Larry, you moved the SEQR motion.
Board Member Howe — I'll second.
Board votes on motion.
Mr. Kanter — Could you entertain a couple of slight wording revisions on the SEQR
resolution that Susan came across?
Chairperson Wilcox - Susan, you are always welcome to interrupt me.
Ms. Brock — I didn't know, but now I do.
Mr. Kanter — Sometimes you move so quickly.
Ms. Brock — I'm going to go fast on this.
Chairperson Wilcox — No. Take your time.
Ms. Brock — Well, the first one is just in the first whereas. It is not really a sentence. I
think it just start, "This action is consideration of... ". Number 2, you might recall that
the Town's environmental review law changed about a year ago and there are no more
legislative determinations as to who the lead agency is. So instead of saying that the
Town Planning Board is legislatively determined to act as lead agency, I think we should
just say that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board is acting as lead agency in this
uncoordinated environmental review. And then lastly, SEQR requires a reasonable
elaboration of why you are making the decision to neg dec something and your
resolved clause doesn't quite do it. I think that we could very simply say, I'll just read
it. ""That the Town of Ithaca Planning Board hereby makes a negative determination of
environmental significance," and here's the change, "for the reasons set forth in the
short environmental assessment form, Parts II and III," and then the rest of the
sentence continues as you have it here in accordance with the New York State
Environmental Quality Review Act, etc. So now you have said here are our reasons and
you actually just reference Parts II and III, which spell out all of the reasons.
Chairperson Wilcox — Should we rescind and revote? Should we revote?
Ms. Brock — Probably wouldn't hurt.
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Board revotes on the motion.
PB RESOLUTION NO. 2006 -009: SEAR, Site Plan Modification, La Tou�e /%
Country Inn - Room Expansion & Spa, 1150 Danby Room, Tax Parcel No, 36-
1-4,2
MOTION made by Board Member Thayer, seconded by Board Member Howe
WHEREAS:
16 This action is consideration of Site Plan Modifications for the previously approved
plan for the spa and room addition project at the La Tourelle Country Inn located
at 1150 Danby Road (NYS Route 96B), Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 36- 1 -4.2,
Planned Development Zone No. 1. The proposal involves changes to the
proposed stormwater facilities, to the number and location of some of the
parking, and modifications to the arrangement of the landscaping and lighting.
Walter J. Wiggins, Owner /Applicant, and
2. This is an Unlisted Action for which the Town of Ithaca Planning Board is acting
as Lead Agency in this uncoordinated environmental review with respect to Site
Plan Approval and Special Permits, and
3. The Planning Board, on January 17, 2006, has reviewed and accepted as
adequate a Short Environmental Assessment Form Part I, submitted by the
applicant, and Part II prepared by Town Planning stab, plan entitled "Site and
Demolition Plan "revised 5 - 12/06/05, prepared by Gary L. Wood P. E., and other
application material, and
4. The Town Planning staff has recommended a negative determination of
environmental significance with respect to the proposed Site Plan Modification;
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOL VED:
That the Town of Ithaca Planning Board hereby makes a negative determination
of environmental significance for the reasons set forth in the Short Environmental
Assessment Form, Parts II and III, in accordance with the New York State
Environmental Quality Review Act for the above referenced action as proposed, and,
therefore, an Environmental Impact Statement will not be required.
A vote on the motion resulted as follows:
AYES.• Wilcox, Hoffmann, Conneman, Mitrano, Thayer, Howe, Talty.
NAYS: None.
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The motion was declared to be carried unanimously.
Chairperson Wilcox closes this segment of the meeting at 7 :13 p.m.
PUBLIC HEARING
Consideration of Site Plan Modifications to the previously approved plan for
the spa and room addition project at the La Tourelle Country Inn located at
1150 Danby Road (NYS Route 96B), Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 3644.2,
Planned Development. Zone No. 1. The proposal involves changes to the
proposed stormwater facilities, to the number and location of some of the
parking, and modifications to the arrangement of the landscaping and
lighting. Walter J. Wiggins, Owner /Applicant
Chairperson Wilcox reads the public hearing notice.
Chairperson Wilcox opens the public hearing at 7:15 p.m.
Chairperson Wilcox - Questions of Mr. Wiggins with regard to the site plan as proposed,
which is a modification of what was proposed before, which is really going to back to
plan c, which is kind of going back to plan a. No questions?
Board Member Mitrano - I'll move it.
Chairperson Wilcox - Well, I have to give the public a chance to speak. Wally, there
are no questions. Would you have a seat please?
Chairperson Wilcox invites members of the public to address the board. With no one
present to speak, Chairperson Wilcox closes the public hearing at 7:17 and brings the
matter back to the board.
Chairperson Wilcox - Motion moved by Tracy Mitrano, seconded by the Chair.
Ms. Brock - May I speak? Again, just the first whereas. I think it should be a sentence.
So just say, "This is consideration of..." Again in number 2, acting as lead in
uncoordinated environmental review. And then I just had a question under the
resolved, under 1d, it says the approval is subject to the following conditions,
submission of record of application for and approval status of all necessary permits
from county, state, and or federal agencies. Does that mean that he has just showed
you that he has applied for and tells you what the status is of his application that that is
enough or do you want him to actually get the approvals for your site plan?
Chairperson Wilcox - We want records of the approvals in the Town office ?.
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Ms. Brock — So why do you have the word status in there?
Chairperson Wilcox — Because we shouldn't, how's that? I mean what kind of answer
do you want?
Ms. Brock — I guess the question is, should it say submission of record of application for
and status of all necessary permits? That is really what you want, right? Not just an
update on the status, which could be denied. So just cross out the word status. Okay.
I'm done.
Mr. Kanter — Sometimes we word it like that because it would be prior to something,
issuance of a building permit, certificate of occupancy. I guess in this case we just
want the documentation of the approvals. Is that right?
Mr. Smith — I'm not sure there even is any in this case because they are so far along
into the project, but in case something comes up.
Chairperson Wilcox — Tracy, changes okay with you?
Board Member Mitrano — Yes.
Chairperson Wilcox — And they are fine with me.
Board votes on the motion.
PH RESOLUTION NO. 2006 -010• Site Plan Modification, La Toure/% Country
O 44G/1 n�•%i4 T•w n�ri+a1 A/A 24.1 ..Q %.
MOTION made by Board Member Mitrano, seconded by Chairperson Wilcox.
WHEREAS:
1. This action is consideration of Site Plan Modifications for the previously approved
plan for the spa and room addition project at the La Tourelle Country Inn located
at 1150 Danby Road (NYS Route 96B), Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 36- 142,
Planned Development Zone No. 1. The proposal involves changes to the
proposed stormwater facilities, to the number and location of some of the
parking, and modifications to the arrangement of the landscaping and lighting.
Walter J. Wiggins, Owner /Applicant, and
2. This is an Unlisted Action for which the Town of Ithaca Planning Board, acting as
lead agency in uncoordinated environmental review with respect to Site Plan
Modification, has, on January 17, 2006, made a negative determination of
environmental significance, after having reviewed and accepted as adequate a
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Short Environmental Assessment Form Part I, submitted by the applicant, and a
Part II prepared by Town Planning staff, and
30 The Planning Board, at a Public Hearing held on January 17, 2006, has reviewed
and accepted as adequate,% plan entitled "Site and Demolition Plan" revised 5 -
12106105, prepared by Gary L. Wood P.E., and other application material, and
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOL VED:
1. That the Town of Ithaca Planning Board hereby grants approval for Site Plan
Modifications for the spa and room addition project at the La Tourelle Country
Inn located at 1150 Danby Road, as shown on the plan entitled "Site and
Demolition Plan "revised 5 - 12/06/05, prepared by Gary L. Wood P. E., and other
application material, subject to the following conditions:
a. submission of a revised lighting and landscape plan to reflect the current
parking layout, prior to the issuance of a Final Certificate of Occupancy,
and
b, submission of an original stamped version of the final site plan on mylar,
vellum or paper, to be retained by the Town of Ithaca, prior to the
issuance of a Final Certificate of Occupancy, and
C submission of a stormwater "Operation, Maintenance, and Reporting
Agreement" between the property_ owner and the Town of Ithaca, prior to
the issuance of a Final Certificate of Occupancy, satisfactory to the
Director of Engineering, and
d, submission of record of application for and approvals of all necessary
permits from county, state, and /or federal agencies, including but not
limited to a Modification Form for the Stormwater Pollution. Prevention
Plan.
A vote on the motion resulted as follows:
AYES: Wilcox, Hoffmann, Conneman, Mitrano, Thayer, Howe, Talty.
NAYS: None.
The motion was declared to be carried unanimously.
SEQR
Three Rivers Mini Golf & Creamery, 869 Elmira Road
Chairperson Wilcox opens this segment of the meeting at 7:24 p.m.
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Chairperson Wilcox — To those members of the audience who wish to better view the
presentation, the visuals, you are certainly welcome to come up and stand behind us so
that you can see them better. Having said that, name and address please, and I
assume you have a short presentation to make.
Robert Drew, Hunt Engineers
Yes I do. My name is Robert Drew, Hunt Engineers, Corning, New York.
Chairperson Wilcox — Can I have a street address?. A professional address will do fine.
Mr. Drew — 100 Hunter Center, Airport Corporate Park, Big Flats, New York.
Chairperson Wilcox — Go ahead. The floor is yours..
Mr. Drew — Okay. I want to go straight through as if nobody knows where it is at. I'm
going to go right down through with what is going on at the site and what we are doing
and things like that.
The site is located on Route 13, which would be the east side of Route 13
between Eddydale's and Turback's restaurant. The 2.0 -acre site, a vacant site, mostly
grass covered. There are small trees on the west side. If you looked at the site
drawings here, the survey drawings of the project, you see that there is a high point
located on the site here, on the existing site here from an assumed elevation down here
that was surveyed. The drainage from the site runs east and north on one side and
west on the other side, which would be towards Route 13.
Board Member Hoffmann — Can I interrupt you for a moment? When I was looking at
the drawings, I didn't see a north arrow. So I assume that it is laid out so that north is
straight up on the paper. Is that right?
Mr. Drew — That is correct.
Board Member Hoffmann — Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Drew — You're welcome. Municipal utilities are available on the site, sanitary, water
and telephone. They all run along Route 13. Here is the main. The sanitary main runs
along here and it is an 8 -inch. The water line is located in here, which feeds the two
different locations here, essentially we are going to hook up to existing utilities and stuff
like there. We will have underground telephone there also. The whole work is really
going to be construction of an 18 -hole golf course, 9 holes will be accessible to the
handicapped. There will be a 600 square foot clubhouse and gazebo, built on the south
side of the parking lot. There will a 29 -car parking lot, a gravel parking lot at this point
and driveway off Route 13.
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We have a revised lighting plan that we have done. (not. audible) ... detention
pond, according to the New York State regulations. As you can see here as we go
through the drawings, your grading plan, our proposed contours overtop the existing
contours. Stormwater, like I said, is all designed for all the stormwater and drainage
off the site. It comes off across the. parking lot and into a design swale into our
detention pond. It is actually a water quality pond, into the structure and it will come
out slow out of.the structure, across the site, essentially in the same direction as it is
now, which is essentially in a northeasterly direction. Most of the site is draining that
way currently and we are going to take it that way.
The actual golf course itself is all on the southern and western side. Parking is
on the north. The clubhouse building will have water,. sanitary, and hook up along the
existing utility lines that we have in front. It. is going to be a 1 -inch water line that
hooks in here into the existing 8 -inch, which goes underneath Route 13, existing on the
other side of Route 13, which would be the west side is the existing 8 -inch line that
feeds all the hydrants that are along Route 13 as you drive up through there. Sanitary
is already there on our side. That is just an extension of the water.
I mentioned that there is going to be a clubhouse, gazebo, sidewalk, 18 -hole and
there is a revised lighting plan. I would also like to address, if I may, some of the
comments that were given to me from the board members, I guess, in other agencies
who reviewed this. I had a chance to review these and I want to go over these. I am
addressing this letter right here. The preliminary site plan approval, special permit,
dated January 17th, 2006. It goes onto three pages, front and back. So I am going to
refer to that letter.
Chairperson Wilcox — Is that our proposed resolution? That is the proposed resolution
as drafted.
Mr. Drew — I thought I would address these comments here because I had a chance to
go through these. I feel a lot of the comments that have been addressed to the light
plan. So we went ahead and we redid the lighting plan using different fixture than
what we had proposed, shorter light pole. We went from a 25 to 18 foot high pole.
We went from 1,000 -watt light to 400 -watt light. In essence we went from 12 different
light poles to 18. The recommended light candle watt power for a golf course is 10-
candle watt power and that was our guideline. As you can see from the lighting plan
here, these contour lines are lighting contour lines. If you look on number a line, it is
the .5 candle watt power and this is your 1 candle watt power, 5- candle watt power
and 10- candle watt power. So you can see that that it is focused right around the
playing area and that is what the recommended candle watt. Then as you go away
from your site, you are going down to here where you are down to half a candle watt
power. So all the light is right on the site. The lights are cut down. So there shouldn't
be any concern with this lighting.
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Chairperson Wilcox — That is a diagram that we have not seen before tonight, correct?
Mr. Drew — No. I just got these comments. These were something that I had a chance
to address in the last 2 days that I have taken the time to address your concerns and I
want to bring it up for possible comment. Later it will be submitted to you for final
approval at a later date.
Board Member Hoffmann — Can I just ask for a clarification? In our papers we got this
picture of the light that you proposed. Are you saying that you are not going to use
this light, you are using something different?
Mr. Drew — That is correct.
Board Member Hoffmann — Okay. So the one that you are using is not going to be set
at an angle.
Mr. Drew — I have a cut sheet for that I can show you. Right here is a picture of the
light. You can see that it is shielded and it is at a 90- degree angle versus that one.
The new light will be fixed at a 90- degree angle. We also went from the 1,000 -watt
bulb to the 400 -watt bulb and increased the number of poles. Hopefully we have
addressed, most of everybody is concerned with the light seepage from the site.
Another comment that was given to us, landscaping, additional landscaping for
the parking lot. We have also addressed... which will go along in here and along in
here. So we have provided a buffer for the parking between Route 13 and our
neighbors, Eddydale Fruit Stand, as requested. That was in 2a on that sheet.
Board Member Hoffmann — What kind of plants are you proposing to put there?
Mr. Drew — Right now they are the same as the proposals in front of you. You should
have a sheet of the plants that we have.
Board Member Hoffmann — Right, but the additional ones along the parking lot, are
they the same kind of plants?
Mr. Drew — They are the same thing as you are seeing here. They are the dwarf
spruce.
Board Member Hoffmann — How high do they get? How tall?
Mr. Drew — Five foot, I think. I'm not a landscape architect, but I believe that is their
normal height.
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Board Member Hoffmann — Because one wouldn't want to plant something that would
block the drivers from seeing what is coming and what is going.
Mr. Drew — Another question we had was handicap accessibility. We originally showed,
as you see the plans in front of you, the handicap was down in here. We have moved
it closer to the building and in addition to that, we also are going to pave these three
parking stalls here so that the handicap chair ... will ease operation for them. It connects
to the sidewalk here so it will be easy to negotiate to the parking lot.
Number 2a, the lighting plan, which I already addressed. 3a, a screen refuge
area has been placed in here. You asked for a refuge area for our dumpster: We
placed that on the plan according to Superior regulations or what they require for their
dumpster area. I contacted the person for Superior here in Ithaca and in conjunction
with the site requirements, we also got a commitment from them to pick up the refuge
once a week to pick up prior to operation hours or before business hours. So access to
the dumpster is going to be really easy for them. They are going to drive on this main
lane, pick up the dumpster and they will have the entire parking lot to turn around in.
So again, access is not an. issue?
Board Member Mitrano — Will that dumpster be fully exposed, visually?
Mr. Drew — No. It is screened. We put a fence around it. There will be details of all of
that, too. Again we will have all these plans on the final submittal, but I just wanted to
address here tonight that we were working on these. Number 4a, a bike rack has been
added down in here, next to the sidewalk for future use. I guess there is a proposed
bike trail that is nearby.
Another question was additional architectural drawings for the gazebo and
clubhouse and they will follow at a later date. Sign detail, I think you have a drawing
on a proposed sign.
Chairperson Wilcox — We were handed one this evening, yes.
Mr. Drew — I haven't even seen that.
Board Member Talty — Will that be lit the sign?
Chairperson Wilcox — We might also want to know colors.
Board Member Talty — Going back to building materials, often what we require are like
swatches or colorized so we have a real definite look at exactly what you are building.
Mr. Drew — For site plan approval or for building permit?
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Board Member Talty — Site plan.
Chairperson Wilcox Or come in with a color picture of it that is a true reproduction of
what the colors are.
Board Member Talty — Roof, siding, etc.
Mr. Drew — So you will need the color and the material the building will be. made of.
Board Member Hoffmann - I think in this case I would be interested in seeing colors of
some of the structures that are part of the golf course, too.
Mr. Drew — I think everything is pretty much green or gray with stone. It will be a
green carpets gray natural looking stone and I don't think there is much else other than
the trees.
Bonnie Warren, 2028 Elmira Road
There are no physical structures like houses or buildings on the course. It is strictly
natural looking. It will have natural boulders from the area with the waterfall and then
there will be mostly landscaping. The carpets are green.
Board Member Conneman No pink dinosaurs or things like that?
Ms. Warren —No. It's too beautiful an area.
Chairperson Wilcox — The one near Owego has a big pink elephant doesn't it? That's
right.
Board Member Hoffmann — Let me just be sure I understand. You mentioned natural
stones, but I thought Mr. Drew said natural looking stones.
Mr. Drew — There is some manmade stone within the design of the course, but there is
also going to be some natural stone.
Ms. Warren — The manmade is what they call granite.
Board Member Hoffmann — I don't know what that means, but I know that I have seen
some places where they have what is supposed to look like natural stones and it looks
like magnified piles of dog food or something.
Ms. Warren — If they put any in it would be gray.
Board Member Hoffmann — Anyway, I would like to see some more details about what
those constructions would look like.
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Mr. Drew — Would you like to see pictures?
Board Member Hoffmann — Pictures in color if possible.
Mr. Drew — I don't think that is a problem.
Board Member Mitrano — To what three rivers are we referring to?
Board Member Talty — Are you Steeler fans?
Ms. Warren — There is three separate flowing streams on it. Three Streams just didn't
sound as good as Three Rivers, but it refers to the three separate pieces of flowing
water. I did them separately that way and if one pump for the fountain goes down
then I don't have all three of them without running water.
Board Member Mitrano — Thanks.
Chairperson Wilcox — I'm not sure whether we interrupted your presentation or whether
you are done.
Mr. Drew - I think we are pretty much done. We have dealt with the amenities. I
guess I am open to the additional questions.
Chairperson Wilcox — I'm sure we'll have a few.
Board Member Hoffmann — As far as the sign, I may have just not heard what you said.
Was it going to be lit or not?
Ms. Warren — I was contemplating just small lights on the ground just aiming up at the
sign, but nothing ... the sign I'm going for is just wooden. I don't want an illuminated
bright plastic sign.
Chairperson Wilcox — We are in the process of creating a lighting ordinance and that
type of lighting will not be allowed because it points up. That is the essential issue.
Board Member. Mitrano What do you recommend that she gets so that she...
Board Member Talty — Didn't we just have someone else.come in where the light was
on the sign?
Chairperson Wilcox — In this case it extends out from the top of the post and points
down at it.
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Board Member Hoffmann — Any kind of lighting like that has to be done very carefully
so that the lights don't accidentally point out towards the road or to other drivers who
can be blinded by the glare. So it can be very tricky.
Chairperson Wilcox — Let us look very briefly at the comments that were here in front of
us when, we got here. Comments from various boards and others. The Town
Conservation Board, their biggest comment had to do with lighting and that has been
addressed on the new Sheet L11. We have a letter from NYS Parks, which have you
seen the letter from Parks?
Mr. Drew — Just tonight.
Chairperson Wilcox — Again, lighting is mentioned. Lets talk about hours of operation
and amplified music, which they mention. Will there be amplified music? That's a now I
see the shaking of the head. Now, we are getting a little bit ahead of ourselves, but I
think that this might be SEQR, do we have a conflict with them being open to 11 p.m.
and parks having quiet time after 10 p.m., if indeed there is no amplified music.
Board Member Mitrano — I don't see a problem.
Board Member Talty — I don't see a problem.
Board Member Hoffmann — Well, there would still be traffic sound from there and some
from the people using the golf course.
Chairperson Wilcox — I think driving on the highway would drown out any traffic from
this site. We're comfortable there?
Board Member Howe — Yes. As long as it does end at 11 p.m.
Chairperson Wilcox — I will also point out that the County in their 239 review also
mentioned lighting of course. Hours of operation were mentioned: Landscaping was
mentioned. Now lets talk about the pedestrian traffic since the county brought it up
and the state brought it up. Do we want pedestrians crossing Route 13, 34 and 96?
Board Member Thayer — No. That can't happen.
Board Member Hoffmann — No. That's too dangerous and I think I would also like to
register a somewhat dissenting view on the hours. I think having it stay open with the
lights on and so on later than the park closes, I think could be disturbing. I would like
to see a 10 p.m. closing hour for this too.
Board Member Mitrano — Help me understand. Who is in the park at that time that is
affected by that?
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Board Member Hoffmann — In the summer?
Board Member Mitrano — Is the park open or closed? Is there a campground there?
Board Member Hoffmann - There is a campground there. I don't think that the
representatives of the park would have written that this would be a problem unless it
was a problem because it is close enough.
Mr. Kanter — Well, I think that they were mostly referring to the amplified sound, if
there, was going to be. So I think that was their main concern.
Board Member Hoffmann — But there is also a problem with light and actually, what are
you going to do about the lights? Are the lights staying on after the facility closes? All
night?
Ms. Warren - Not all of them. There will be some security for the buildings.
Mr. Drew — The bare minimum.
Board Member Hoffmann So all those lights would come off and then they would go
on, as it gets dark in the afternoon or evening.
Chairperson Wilcox — And keep the light on the site. They essentially increased the
number of light poles and lowered them in order to reduce the spillage.
Mr. Drew — Right. We lowered the poles and we lowered the wattage of the fixture
itself.
Mr. Walker — Just a comment. You notice the little building on.this picture here. There
are a couple of buildings down here. Those are state park's maintenance buildings and
their lights are on all the time. They have large lights around that building. The
campground is on the opposite of that from you.
Chairperson Wilcox — By lights all the time you mean security lighting?
Mr. Walker — Yeah. They have security lighting all the time and the campground is
quite a ways back in. So you should have everybody turn their headlights off on Route
13, though, because that would probably disturb people, too.
Chairperson Wilcox — So what you are saying is you don't...
Mr. Walker — I don't see a problem with light there.
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Chairperson Wilcox — Do you want to say anything about the stormwater management.
Mr. Walker — Stormwater. They have handled it well.
Chairperson Wilcox — Enough said.
Mr. Kanter — One thought on the pedestrian access, we did try reaching Sue Poelvorde
from parks today, but weren't successful, but the future Black Diamond Trail is going to
have a crossing connecting to Robert Treman Park somewhere and I wanted to see is
she could tell us exactly where that was because I don't know for sure, but it will be
somewhere just south of this proposed golf course. And it will come around behind
Turback's and this site. So I think there is going to be a future opportunity, again we
don't know when the Black Diamond trail will be built for an actual physical connection,
which I believe will probably be tunneled under 13, if .I recall how they were going to
do this, or else some very careful kind of a crossing in an appropriate location where
people from the park and certainly from the campground area and other parts of the
park could actually by means of the Black Diamond trail access this proposed golf
course at some point in the future.
Board Member Mitrano — Yes. Thanks for mentioning that because I remember talking
about that trail and exactly this issue coming up so I was wondering about the
relationship of the two.
Mr. Walker — I think with that trail, they were looking at locating it along the creek and
actually using the Route 13 bridge and go under the bridge along side the creek there,
is what they are planning.
Chairperson Wilcox — That could provide access from the west side of 13/34/96...from
one side to the other, from the State Park side to the opposite side. Clearly I don't
want ... the State would never-put a crosswalk in and that's not appropriate. Nicole,
anything you wish to say?
Ms. Tedesco — No.
Board Member Howe — Nicole had put in here that we had to make a recommendation
to the Zoning Board about whether ice cream sales...
Chairperson Wilcox — We can do that as part of SEQR.
Board Member Mitrano — Okay by me.
Chairperson Wilcox — Define creamery, or better yet, what are you going to sell there?
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Ms. Warren — Hard and soft ice cream cones, milkshakes, sundaes, and frozen ice
cream sandwich or fudge cicle, canned soda, bottled water.
Chairperson Wilcox — Are you going to make ice cream?
Ms. Warren — In the machine, yes, with the soft serve.
Board Member Conneman — Webster doesn't say that's a creamery, but if you can make
streams into rivers then...
Board Member Talty —. Any hotdogs, hamburgers?
Ms. Warren — No.
Chairperson Wilcox - French - fries. You go to some public events and kids just buy
French -fries and soda. They've got to be high profit for whoever is selling them, but
that raises the issue of the grease and the smell and the fire potential and everything
else.
Board Member Hoffmann — We talked about a similar question recently and we were
talking about whether it was a normal function of something to have something
associated it.
Mr. Kanter — That would be the Six Mile Creek Winery and Vineyard and whether
banquet were a normal function.
Board Member Hoffmann — I though that there was something even after that where
we had a similar question. I think we have to look at this the same way. We have to
look at how this question was phrased and consider whether ... I haven't been to a
miniature golf course since my kids were small and that was a long time ago so I don't
know if they are just golf courses or if they have these associated food. services with
them as a normal function of a miniature golf course. There is a question about what
we allow in our zoning ordinance. That is why we are asking this.
Board Member Howe — But I have no problem with it. I see it as a normal function.
Board Member Hoffmann — And have you seen this as a normal function when you have
been to a miniature golf courses?
Board Member Howe.— To me they go hand in hand so I have no problem.
Board Member Talty — I believe that they just built one up in Cortland that is a function.
They did incorporate it into it.
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Board Member Conneman — They do it in Virginia.
Board Member Mitrano — And ... where we also live, has the same kind of thing.. Small,
it's just the ice cream.
Chairperson Wilcox — I was saying before the meeting I think there are three miniature
golf courses in downtown Old Forge. I have played one of them with my kids and there
is a place to buy soda. I, can't tell you whether it has ice cream or not, but it has soda
and snacks.
Board Member Talty — You'll have plenty of trash recepticles?
Ms. Warren — Yes.
Chairperson Wilcox — Any other questions with regard to the environmental review?
Would someone like to move the motion as drafted?
Board Member Conneman. moves the resolution, seconded by Board Member Talty.
Chairperson Wilcox — I know we need changes, so go ahead.
Ms. Brock — So this is on the SEQR resolution. In the Whereas under number 2. It is
the same change as before. Again, because there no longer is any legislative
determination. We just changed this to, "This is an unlisted action for which the Town
of Ithaca Planning Board is acting as lead agency in this uncoordinated environmental
review with respect to site plan approval and the special permit." Then in the resolved
clause, again, to incorporate the reason that are in the environmental assessment form.
So it will read, "The Town of Ithaca Planning Board hereby makes a negative
determination of environmental significance for the reasons set forth in the
environmental assessment form Part II, referenced above, in accordance with the New
York State Environmental Quality Review Act" and the rest will be no change.
Chairperson Wilcox — I have a question. In whereas clause 3, it refers to drawings L1
through L10. We have seen tonight revised L4 and a new L11. So I am wondering if
we should note that we have seen drawings through L11 now. I'm looking at the
Assistant Town Attorney over there. He has held that role since I have been on this
board.
Ms. Brock — Do I have to pay him?
Chairperson Wilcox — No.
Mr. Kanter — But they do. I guess it would be okay to reference them as having been
shown to the board, but we haven't had a chance to review them and we don't have
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record copies at them. So something to just indicate that they were presented for the
board's information.
Chairperson Wilcox — Susan, can you do that? Yeah, we can't say that they have been
reviewed and accepted as adequate, revised L4 and new L11, but certainly...
Mr. Kanter — Maybe just at the very end of it add...
Chairperson Wilcox — At the very end under other materials we could just specify that
we seen the revised L4 and new L11.
Ms. Brock — The other materials that, all of those are deemed to have been reviewed
and accepted as adequate too, right?
Mr. Kanter — Yeah, I. mean there are other things in the file that would refer to.
Ms. Brock — So do you want to say other materials including, but not limited to, revised
drawing L4 and new drawing L11.
Chairperson Wilcox — That's all I want to do.
Board Member Hoffmann — I have an additional comment, actually. First I want to
compliment Nicole on a very thorough write -up. That was very good and very helpful,
but you did mention one thing in here that we didn't talk about yet and that is the
location of the driveway and whether we should discuss having this curb cut there or
whether we should suggest having the driveway go out so that it comes out where
Eddydale's driveway...
Ms. Tedesco — In an ideal world you would limit the number of curb cuts onto a road of
very high speeds and high volumes. It reduces the number of . conflicts between
entering vehicles and through vehicles. That would require coordination with
Eddydale's owners. It will be complicated. I don't know if that is something this board
can demand the applicant do. It might be a suggestion to put forward that maybe they
could talk to Eddydale and see if they would be interested in doing something like that.
I don't know how you would go about doing that. I
.
Chairperson Wilcox — There is also the issue that New York State DOT will have to give
you, I guess two approvals, one for curb cut and one for the work in their right -of -way.
Mr. Drew — I talked to the DOT today in the Cortland office. I talked about the location
of the driveway. I talked about Nicole's comment and I told them the distance that we
had between Eddydale's driveway and our proposed driveway and they had no problem
with that location. It probably would be a good thing, if you want to, to connect. They
don't have a problem with that, but if we leave the one, they don't have a problem with
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that. The one comment that they did make, though, they may require access to buses,
which we have done. We have increased the radius of the turns from 30 to 35, which
is the minimum standard for bus access.
Ms. Tedesco — When you say the turn, you mean the actual curve of the access drive?
Mr. Drew — Yes. That is correct. In L2, which is another revised plan, all the
dimensions are on here. You look on your plan and you see the radius we show here
are 30 foot and we increased them to 35 to accommodate minimum fire truck radius
and school bus or other type of buses to put in. there. And there may be a plan to.
connect here; to make it through Eddydale's for bus access. They could park their
buses along in here then exit right off Eddydale's if we talk to Eddydale...
Ms. Tedesco — That was my next comment that having a bus turn around there would
be a safety hazard.
Mr. Drew — Absolutely. The only way that we could accommodate that right now ... (not
audible) ... would be to use the Eddydale entrance. I talked about it with my client today
and we will probably approach them after the DOT ... once we get the DOT ... those are
initial comments. Of course they didn't have anything to review so I told them what I
had and that was the one comment that they had. It probably will be on the final set of
plans, but I did talk to them about that and they were fine with the location of that and
the size of it.
Ms. Tedesco — Distances were adequate?
Mr. Drew — Yes. The only requirement they have for distance is your radius of your
driveway is not onto someone else's property. If you can put it to your. required radius
for their driveway entrance is not onto someone else's property, then they were fine
with it. It's the only requirement that they have.
Board Member Hoffmann — Well, the reason I was concerned about where your
driveway comes out onto the road is, when you approach this area from the south,
there are two lanes, which join into one, very close to this area here. Could you tell me
where it joins into one lane going north with respect to where your driveway is coming
up?
Mr. Drew — I don't having anything ... if you see this drawing right here that Nicole was
so nice to provide everybody with, you can see, I think this is the point that you are
talking about, which would be north of Eddydale's. That is the best I have right now.
Ms. Tedesco — I wouldn't necessarily worry about that. If there are going to be any
conflicts there, it would probably be at the turn off on Route 327. If there was going to
be a conflict with that narrowing it would probably be at that intersection.
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Board Member Hoffmann — Okay. My memory ... I used to go there very often. My
memory of it is that it turns into one lane sooner than when you get up to that
intersection.
Chairperson Wilcox — It looks like if we were to the southern part of the boundary, its
still 21 but obviously you can.see the northbound lane narrowing. The speed limit is still
55 there, I think, right up to about where 327 is where it drops to 50.
Board Member Hoffmann — So it is a bit of a problem because people who are driving
north there will be paying attention to other drivers as they try to go into one lane and
they might not look for people coming in to this driveway or going out from it. I have a
bit of a concern about that. And did you talk to the State people about that?
Mr. Drew — No. I did not, but he was familiar with this site and the location of the
driveway, but he did not voice any concern with traffic safety other than he does realize
it is a 55 mph speed limit and things like that, but he did not comment to me any
concern that he had, particular concerns.
Chairperson Wilcox — I have a motion and a second with regard to SEQR still. Any
further discussion?
Board votes on motion.
PB RESOLUTION NO 2006 -011; SEOR, Pre/iminary Site Plan Approval &
Road. To wn of Ithaca Tax Parcel 35."l -i a 2
MOTION made by Board Member Conneman, seconded by Board Member Talty.
WHEREAS;
1. This action is consideration of Preliminary Site Plan Approval and Special Permit
from the Town of Ithaca Planning Board for the proposed Three Rivers Mini -Golf
& Creamery located at 869 Elmira Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 35. -1-
10.2, Low Density Residential Zone. The proposal includes the construction of
an eighteen hole miniature golf course, a twenty-nine space parking lot, and
entrance drive, a small building for ice cream sales and storage, a gazebo,
lighting, and stormwater facilities. Bonnie and lames Warren, Owners/
Applicants; Robert M. Drew, Hunt Engineers, Architects & Land Surveyors, P. C.,
Agent; and
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2, This is an Unlisted Action for which the Town of Ithaca Planning Board is acting
as Lead Agency in this uncoordinated environmental review with respect to Site
Plan Approval and Special Permit, and
3. The Planning Board, on January 17, 2006, has reviewed and accepted as
adequate, subject to the conditions outlined in the Site Plan Resolution, a Short
Environmental Assessment Form Part I, submitted by the applicant, and Part II
prepared by Town Planning staff
,• site plan drawings, entitled,. 'Engineering
Drawings for Three Rivers Miniature Golf & Creamery, Town of Ithaca, Tompkins
County, New York, (L -1 through L -10) "prepared by Hunt Engineers, Architects &
Land Surveyors, dated December 2005; a floor plan entitled, "Mini -Golf Club
House, Bonnie & James Warren, Route 13, Ithaca, NY 14850 (not for
construction), " prepared by Claudia Brenner, architect, dated September 19,
2005, a Stormwater Pollution Prevention Plan (SWPPP), prepared by Hunt
Engineers,. Architects & Land Surveyors, dated December 2005; "Engineering
Report and Design Information for Three Rivers Mini -Golf & Creamery, "prepared
by Hunt Engineers, Architects & Land Surveyors, dated December 2005; and
other materials including, but not limited to, revised sheet L4 and new sheet L11
presented at the January 17, 2006 Planning Board meeting; and
4. The Town Planning staff has recommended a negative determ /nation of
environmental significance with respect to the proposed Site Plan Approval and
Special Permit;
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOL VED:
That the Town of Ithaca Planning Board hereby makes a negative determination
of environmental significance for the reasons set forth in the Short Environmental
Assessment Form, Part II, in accordance with the New York State Environmental Quality
Review Act for the above referenced action as proposed, and, therefore, an
Environmental Impact Statement will not be required.
A vote on the motion resulted as follows:
AYES.• Wilcox, Hoffmann, Conneman, M/trano, Thayer, Howe, Talty.
NAYS• None.
The motion was declared to be carried unanimously.
Chairperson Wilcox closes this segment of them the meeting at 8:05 p.m.
PUBLIC HEARING
Consideration of Preliminary. Site Plan Approval and Special Permit for the
proposed Three Rivers Mini Golf & Creamery located at 869 Elmira Road,
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January 17, 2006
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Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 35 =1 -10.2, Low Density Residential Zone. The
proposal includes the construction of a 18 hole miniature golf course, a 29
space parking lot and entrance drive, a small building for ice cream sales and
storage, a gazebo, lighting, and stormwater facilities. Bonnie and James
Warren, Owners /Applicants; Robert M. Drew, Project Engineer, Hunt
Engineers, Architects & Land Surveyors, P.C., Agent
Chairperson Wilcox reads the public hearing notice.
Chairperson Wilcox — Any questions with regard to site plan that we haven't already
asked?
Chairperson Wilcox opens the public hearing at 8:05 p.m, and invites members of the
public to address the board. With no one wishing to speak, Chairperson Wilcox closes
the public hearing at 8:07 p.m. and brought the matter back to the board.
Board Member Mitrano moves the motion, Board Member Howe seconds.
Chairperson Wilcox — Any changes?
Ms. Brock — So the second whereas should say this is an unlisted action, not type II.
Then under the ... on the top of the third page, you have and be it further resolved,
number 2 says that this permit is further conditioned upon the approval of the variances
by the ZBA regarding inclusion of ice cream sales or other snack foods as a normal
function of the miniature golf course. Actually, they are going to need a use variance if
they make the determination that these sales are not a normal function. So I think
what we really need to say is, "upon approval of the variances, by the ZBA as
referenced in condition 2e of site plan approval" and then just add, "or acquisition of
the necessary interpretation from the Zoning Board of Appeals regarding the inclusion
of ice cream sales or other snack foods as a normal function." Then I would add a
number three here at your pleasure and discretion, if you want to add any of the
conditions that we discussed tonight, perhaps something along the lines of, "This
special permit is further conditioned upon compliance at all times with the following: a)
no amplified music, b) no lighting of the course when the course is closed, c) evening
house of operation shall not extend beyond 11 p.m." These are just things that you
have been discussing. These are just some ideas for you to consider.
Chairperson Wilcox — I would like to get it in there.
Ms. Brock rereads the suggested changes.
Chairperson Wilcox suggests adding, 'other than security lighting" to the suggested
condition 3b. Mr. Walker mentions that in subparagraph g, it should state "Director" of
Engineering and not "Direction" of Engineering.
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Chairperson Wilcox — Though many of the conditions have been addressed in the
presentation in the revised drawing, we will leave the conditions in so that the drawings
can be submitted and reviewed and hopefully we will mitigate or take care of most of
those before you come back for final.
Mr. Kanter — Do you want to add a quick reference in a to photos or details of the rocks
and other natural landscaping materials?
Chairperson Wilcox — Yes. Some members have made it clear that they would like to
see...
Board Member Mitrano — Yeah, but does that have to be in the resolution? Is that what
was suggested? I didn't really hear.
Mr. Kanter — If you want to see the details, then it should be.
Chairperson Wilcox — If you want to see the details then you should put it in the
resolution.
Mr. Kanter — These are all prior to final approval anyway so they have to put the other
things together.
Board Member Mitrano — Well, if it is thought of like a checklist for them okay, but ... (not
audible).
Chairperson Wilcox — We're all set. Any further discussion?
Mr. Kanter — Just on the interpretation of the GML letter where they basically said this
had intermunicipal - county concerns and the one they listed under that concern was the
lighting, but since we have already addressed that in our resolution and the applicant
has already indicated the willingness to accommodate our resolution, my interpretation
is that we are not overriding the County letter, but are actually meeting their
recommendation. So just for the record that does not require a majority plus one vote
in my opinion as the assistant town attorney, but that is just me.
Chairperson Wilcox — For the record it says that we recommend outdoor lighting
minimize spill, glare and night sky impacts to the greatest extent possible.
Board Member Thayer — They've done that.
Board Member Mitrano and Board Member Howe accept proposed changes. Board
votes on resolution.
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January 17, 2006
Approved
Permit, Three Rivers Miniature Golf Course and Creamery, 869 Elmira Road,
Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel 35, -1 -1a2
MOTION made by Board Member Mitrano, seconded by Board Member Howe.
WHEREAS:
1. This action is consideration of Preliminary Site Plan Approval and Special Permit
from the Town of Ithaca Planning Board for the proposed Three Rivers Mini -Golf
& Creamery located at 869 Elmira Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 35. -1-
10.2, Low Density Residential Zone. The proposal includes the construction of
an eighteen hole miniature golf course, a twenty -nine space parking lot and
entrance. drive, a small building for ice cream sales and storage, a gazebo,
lighting, and stormwater facilities. Bonnie and James Warren, Owners/
Applicants; Robert M. Drew, Hunt Engineers, Architects & Land Surveyors, P.C.
Agent; and
2. This is an unlisted action for which the Town of Ithaca Planning Board, acting as
Lead Agency in environmental review with respect to site plan and special permit
approval, did, on January 17, 2006, make a negative determination of
environmental significance; and
3. The Planning Board, at a Public Hearing held on January 17, 2006, has reviewed
and accepted as adequate, subject to the conditions outlined below, a Short
Environmental Assessment Form Part I, submitted by the applicant, and Part II
prepared by Town Planning staff, • site plan drawings, entitled, "Engineering
Drawings for Three Rivers Miniature Golf & Creamery, Town of Ithaca, Tompkins
County, New York, (L -1 through L -10) "prepared by Hunt Engineers, Architects &
Land Surveyors, dated December 2005; a floor plan entitled, "Mini -Golf Club
House, Bonnie & James Warren, Route 13, Ithaca, NY 14850 (not for
construction), " prepared by Claudia Brenner, architect, dated September 19,
2005; a Stormwater Pollution Prevention Plan (SWPPP), prepared by Hunt
Engineers, Architects & Land Surveyors, dated December 2005, "Engineering
Report and Design Information for Three Rivers Mini -Golf & Creamery, "prepared
by Hunt Engineers, Architects & Land Surveyors, dated December 2005; and
other materials;
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOL VED:
1. That the Town of Ithaca Planning Board hereby waives certain requirements for
Preliminary Site Plan Approval, as shown on the Preliminary Site Plan Checklist,
having determined from the materials presented that such waiver will result in
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neither a significant alteration of the purpose of site plan control nor the policies
enunciated or implied by the Town Board, and
2. That the Town of Ithaca Planning Board hereby grants Preliminary Site Plan
Approval for the proposed Three Rivers Miniature Golf Course and Creamery, as
shown on the site plan drawings, entitled, "Engineering Drawings for Three
Rivers Miniature Golf & Creamery, Town of Ithaca, Tompkins County, New York,
(L -1 through L -10)" prepared by Hunt Engineers, Architects & Land Surveyors,
dated December 2005, and the floor plan entitled, ' Mini-Golf Club House, Bonnie
& James Warren, Route 13, Ithaca, NY 14850 (not for construction),"' prepared
by Claudia Brenner, architect, dated September 19, 2005, subject to the
following conditions prior to Final Site Plan Approval, unless otherwise noted:
a. Revision and submission of the site plans to include adequate buffering of
the, parking lot on the north and west sides; landscaping plans and
schedules for the site beyond the mini golf course, including locations,
species, and size of proposed plantings, along with existing landscaping to
be retained; revisions to improve handicap access in the parking lot;
revisions to show that all exterior lights will be fully shielded so that no
light rays are emitted by the installed fixtures at angles above the
horizontal plane, in order to minimize excessive glare and light trespass,
addition of details showing the location and type of trash receptacles
throughout the miniature golf course facility; details of rocks, boulders
and other landscape materials; and an appropriately screened trash
collection bin, and the details of -an appropriately located and designed
bicycle rack; and
b. Submission of floor plans and elevations for the clubhouse, showing
external configuration, dimensions, finishes, fenestrations, colors, and
construction materials, and other usual building details; and
c. Submission of design, material, and construction plans and details for the
gazebo; and
d. Submission of any proposed sign details, including location, design,
dimensions, construction materials, and any associated lighting; and
e. Acquisition of any necessary interpretations or variances from the Zoning
Board of Appeals regarding the operation of the creamery, consisting of
the sale of ice cream and snacks, along with the miniature golf course in a
Low Density Residential Zone; and
f Submission for review and approval of the Town of Ithaca Director of
Engineering of revised stormwater, erosion, and sedimentation control
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Planning Board Minutes
January 17, 2006
Approved
plans, including a revised SWPPP, before the start of any construction on
the site; and
g. Submission of a stormwater maintenance agreement for review and
approval of the Director of Engineering, prior to issuance of any certificate
Of occupancy; and
h. Submission. of evidence that the Ithaca City Fire Department has approved
the adequacy 'of access to the site and building for fire and emergency
service equipment; and
i. Approval from NYSDOT for a curb cut onto a State Route and/ or a road
work permit, prior to the issuance of any building permits; and
j. Submission of an owners' certificate stating that the owner of the land
owns the land, caused the land to be surveyed and the site plans
proposed, agrees to construct the project in the manner presented by the
finally approved site plan and all related approved documents, and agrees
and guarantees to construct any required infrastructure elements set forth
on the finally approved site plan,
AND BE IT FURTHER RESOL VED;
12 That the Town of Ithaca Planning Board hereby grants a Special Permit to allow
the Three Rivers Miniature Golf Course & Creamery to operate in a Low Density
Residential Zone as provided for in the Town of Ithaca General Code ,§270 -55
(Principal uses authorized by special permit only, Low Density Residential Zone),
subject to the conditions of the Preliminary Site Plan Approval,. finding that the
standards of ,§270 -200, Subsections A -L, of the Town of Ithaca Code have been
met; and
2. That this Special Permit is further conditioned upon the approval of the variances
by the Zoning Board of Appeals as referenced in condition 2, e. of Site Plan
Approval or acquisition of the necessary interpretation from the Zoning Board of
Appeals regarding the inclusion of ice cream sales or other snack foods as a
"normal function "of a miniature golf course; and
3. That the Special Permit is further conditioned upon the compliance at all times
with the following:
a. There shall be no amplified music;
b. There shall be no lighting of the course when the course is closed other
than security lighting; and
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Approved
c. Evening hours of operation shall not extend beyond 11:00 p.m.
AND BE IT FURTHER RESOL VED;
1. That the Town of Ithaca Planning Board, pursuant to §270 -227 (A)(4) of the
Town Code, hereby allows a reduction of the standard size of a parking space to
no less than 162 square feet, as shown on the plan titled "Site Improvement and
Layout Plan" (L -2), finding that the reduction will not have any adverse effects
on the project, on the surrounding area, or on the neighborhood.
AND BE IT FURTHER RESOL VED;
18 That the Town of Ithaca Planning Board hereby recommends to
Ithaca Zoning Board of Appeals (ZBA) that the proposed creamery,
the sales of ice cream, snacks, and limited beverages, appears to
function "as a use accessory to the proposed miniature golf course,
such a finding by the ZBA.
A vote on the motion resulted as follows:
AYES.• Wilcox, Hoffmann, Conneman, Mitrano, Thayer, Howe, Talty.
NA YS: None.
The motion was declared to be carried unanimously.
the Town of
consisting of
be a "normal
and supports
AGENDA ITEM
Consideration of acceptance of the Draft Scope document (dated November
15, 2005, revised ]anuary 11, 2006) as the Final Scope document for the
proposed Ten -year Transportation Impact Mitigation Strategies (TIMS) and
the associated transportation - focused Generic Environmental Impact
Statement (t -GEIS) being jointly undertaken by Cornell University and the
Town of Ithaca. Kathryn Wolf, RLA, Principal -in- Charge.
Chairperson Wilcox opens this segment of the meeting at 8:14 p.m.
Chairperson Wilcox - Before we get going, Susan, I wanted to clarify your role since in
the previous two public hearings you were sitting out in the audience and now you are
sitting up here with us. So I want to make sure there is no conflict of interest.
Ms. Brock — No. I was hired by the Town to work specifically to work on the GEIS,
representing the Town's interest. At the time, someone else was appointed as the
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Attorney for the Town for all other matters. So I was sitting in the audience. Now I
have been appointed Attorney for the Town for everything else. So...
Chairperson Wilcox — You were representing the Town before...
Ms. Brock - ...representing the Town before and am still doing it.
Chairperson Wilcox — Okay. I have a handheld, which if that will be easier and I will be
glad to bring it up to you otherwise you are stuck passing that back and forth and I'm
not sure if it will stretch all the way to Shirley. I get the assumption that you have a
presentation you would like to make.
Kathryn Wolf, Trowbridge & Wolf Landscape Architects
Ms. Wolf — Well, let me tell you what we had in mind and then if you would like to do
something different you'll let me know I'm sure. Yes. Kathryn Wolf, Trowbridge & Wolf
Landscape Architects, 1001 West Seneca Street. I thought that what I might do is just
very briefly summarize the process since receiving the public comments and then at
your pleasure, very briefly I thought I might walk through and just point out specific
changes that have been made and that are perhaps more significant in how they might
relate to a ... that we are responding to a particular comment. I was hoping to do that
all in approximately 10 minutes if that seems appropriate.
Chairperson Wilcox — Be my guest.
Ms. Wolf — Okay. First of all, we received a total of...as you know there were two public
hearings and a total of 17 persons commented during the public comment period.
Eleven spoke at one or the other or both of the public hearings and then there were six
written submissions, some delivered as hard copies, some were submitted over the web
page. I believe you have all received copies of those although I believe there were also
a couple that came after the deadline and I'm not ... so I don't think those were in your
packets, but those will be provided.
Many helpful comments and I think that you will find that we have responded to
and incorporated most of the suggestions that have been made. I think in a very
general sense, overall the message and the bulk of the comments said that there was
really too much emphasis on vehicular circulation and that the commentors would like
to see more emphasis on pedestrians, bicycles, safety and access, was a common
theme. And of course, neighborhood issues and livability. It has always been the
intention that this project would have a strong emphasis on bicycles, pedestrians, all
forms of alternative transportation and that the outcome ... one of the outcomes of the
project would be a reduced use of single occupancy vehicles, but it really... hearing the
public comment it was clear to us that we didn't do a good job communicating that.
That we had ... the intention from the outset was that this would be a very broad,
holistic... when we talked about transportation, we were talking about all modes of
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transportation. I think, in fact, there was a misperception by may that the idea here
was that we could figure out how to get as many vehicles as possible to Cornell and
that in fact is not at all the case. The intention is to, first and foremost, as a result of
the growth at Cornell we want to reduce the number of vehicles that are coming to
campus as a part of that change by emphasizing other modes of transportation. But
then doing the best job that we can and encouraging alternative modes of
transportation we want to then be sure that we do identify and mitigate any impacts
that do occur from any additional traffic including mitigate any impacts to the
neighborhood. So I think that was not made clear and so the revised scope before you
we have added language that we hope clarifies that and there are also additions to the
scope. We have incorporated many of the suggestions that were provided.
I also, not to confuse you further, but I also do have and we can wait till later to
look at this or whatever the board's pleasure, but I have one page of some additional
brief additions that we would like to suggest in addition to the copies that you have in
front of you. We can ... I've got copies of that for the board but we can look at that
later, but there are few additional brief. additions.
Chairperson Wilcox - Did they result from a meeting this afternoon?
Ms. Wolf — Correct.
Chairperson Wilcox — Do you want to just explain that meeting?
Ms. Wolf — Lets see. We received a memo from Susan Brock, who had reviewed the
scope and made a number of comments and suggestions, things that she thought were
still confusing, things she didn't understand or thought might still be of concern and so
we attempted to respond to all of those concerns and we reviewed those with Susan
and Jonathan this afternoon and so that is what I have, one page additional changes.
So as I go through these, I think the ones that are most significant I'll just read to you.
Chairperson Wilcox — I have not seen any ... I became aware that there was a meeting
this afternoon, but I also have not seen...
Mr. Kanter — While they're bringing that up, I'll just clarify. That meeting was actually
of the project team, which is a group that has been formally established during the
process, which includes Susan, myself, Cathy Valentino, Joann Cornish from the City of
Ithaca, Fernando de Aragon from the Transportation Council and numerous Cornell
representatives. So it wasn't a special meeting set up, it was a regularly scheduled
meeting.
Chairperson Wilcox — Meeting of the project team.
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Mr. Kanter — We have copies of Susan's memo here also, which I wasn't sure if we
would be getting additional copies.
Chairperson Wilcox — Pass them down. Thank you.
Ms. Wolf. — Now, I guess I would also point out that I think you each have two copies
of the same draft scope. One has underlined the changes since the original scope was
submitted to you. Then the other one doesn't have any other underlines. I am looking
at the one with the underlines. Where the changes were made and its really just sort
of a clarification, I'm not going to go into that, okay, I'm just going to try to point out
more substantive things for the sake of time.
So on page 1, the third paragraph, which is largely underlined, mostly that is a
clarification and is also trying to describe for the reader how the GEIS is organized.
Part III is existing conditions, Part IV is impacts and Part V is mitigations and that
format become quite repetitious through the document. Under the third bold heading,
what the TGEIS will not address you see over in the right hand column that air quality
has been deleted from that. Air quality has been added to the scope and actually when
we get to that element in the outline where we have added it then we will elaborate on
that a little bit more and describe exactly what will covered under air quality. So we
have added air quality to the scope.
On page 3, the, I think the underlines in the first paragraph, again, are ... I think
most of that language was in the previous version. It has simply sort of been
reformatted. In the second paragraph we do have a change and that is reflected on
that piece of paper that I just handed out to you. It is revision number one and this is
just a clarification because it became clear in talking to the group today, well, this is
something that we had always intended, but we never made it clear. So this is the
third sentence in that paragraph that begins, ""purposes of this project." The new
sentence will read, 'travel to the main campus will be analyzed as if all population
growth will commute to campus in order to understand the worst possible
transportation impacts on the community." So what we are saying is that under each
scenario that population growth number, we will be assuming that that entire growth
number will actually be commuting to campus and in that way we are exaggerating the
number of people that would actually be commuting as a way to get a worse case. We
had never spelled that out before.
Now moving on to page 4, several of the commentors has requested wanting to
understand what Cornell University's were, what projects they had planned. So we
have added under section 3.11, item number 8 is the Cornell University Capital Plan and
that reflects all known planned projects at this point in time We have also included
under the planning studies numbers 9 -13, those are transportation planning studies at
Cornell.
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Page 5, under alternatives to single occupancy vehicle traffic, pedestrians and
bicycles. Again, the one page sheet that we handed to you today, there is a little more
explanation of what we will actually be looking at there for peds and bikes. So and
again, this is section 3, so this is really we are documenting existing conditions at this
point. So for pedestrians we will identify primary pedestrian routes to the campus and
they will be evaluated for suitability for pedestrians, looking at things like are there
sidewalks or not, continuity of sidewalks, handicap access, safe street crossings, etc.
Those are the kind of things that we would be looking at along pedestrian routes to the
campus.
Similarly for bicycle routes. Identified bicycle routes will be evaluated for
suitability, including presence of bicycle lanes, vehicular traffic conditions and is it safe
for bicyclist to travel there, signage, safe road crossings, etc.
Mr. Kanter — I'll add just an editorial note. Kathryn, it sounds like you are at the same
time you are going through the draft scope you are mainly referring to the new sheet
that you have given to the board.
Ms. Wolf — Well, no.
Mr. Kanter — It sounds like the language is the additional new language. Am I wrong?
Chairperson Wilcox — I am following through on...
Ms. Wolf — You have that sheet in front of you, Jonathan? Yeah, sometimes I'm doing
that and sometimes I'm following the old one.
Mr. Kanter — I want it clear to the board, if you can make it clear to the board when
you're, if you are only referring right now to the scope that they had sent to them a
week ago or if you are referring to the new revisions that you just handed them. That's
all I'm asking to make it clear. Otherwise it will be difficult for them to know what is
what.
Ms. Wolf — Okay.
Mr. Kanter — Does that make sense?
Board Member Howe — I think she has been doing that actually.
Board Member Talty — We're good.
Chairperson Wilcox — I'm fine.
Mr. Kanter — Good. I just wanted to make sure.
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Ms. Wolf - Okay. Under transit service, I am not going to go through that unless
someone would like the elaborated on, but really, we've just ... it came out of the
discussions with the resource committee. I believe there has been at least 3 resource
committee meetings and this largely came out of working with that committee to flush
out and George developed this, what would actually be included in the'transit section.
Looking at transit routes, where the population is distributed and so where do we really
need transit routes and park and rides, etc.
Okay, page 7 of the draft scope. Here are a lot of new additions. These are all
pretty much suggestions that either came out of public comments or the resource
committee. So 3.1.4.3, initially we did not have looking at accident and crash data. We
have now added that. So we will be looking at where there might be concentrations of
accidents and problems created by existing conditions out there. 3.1.4.411.
Chairperson Wilcox — Before you go on, is it called crash data? Isn't it called accident
data or something?
Ms. Tedesco — Actually, it is called crash data because when you say an accident it
makes it sound like something actually occurred accidentally whereas a lot of collisions
and things that go boom actually have identifiable causes.
Chairperson Wilcox — So that is the technical term?
Ms. Tedesco — That is the reason why, yes.
Board Member Howe — Would that include pedestrian and bicycle accidents as well, not
just automobile?
Ms. Tedesco — As far as I know. Yes.
Planning Board 1/17/06 Tape 2
Chairperson Wilcox — Thank you, Kathryn.
Ms. Wolf - George just informed me that "crash data" never caught on with the public.
OK, 3144, the original scope did have the Service and Delivery vehicle traffic. What has
been added, based on public input, is the coal delivery, which is a concern to the
community, and routes and policies for construction traffic, so those are the additions.
3146, this is an entirely new section that has been added in response to the public
comment: "General description of existing air quality and noise," and I'm actually going
to ask George to just explain to you a little bit because he actually understands it.
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Mr. Alexiou - Thanks, we think it is a good idea to consider air quality, air impacts and
noise impacts. On the air side, emission and air quality as you probably know is
receiving increased attention because of global warming, so there are a lot of
communities now that want to see that documented and understand the impacts on air
quality of any particular initiative. What we proposed to do is to quantify the air quality
benefits of mitigation strategies, obviously of every trip we divert from a single
occupant vehicle to an alternative mode of transportation is one less car starting up and
traveling and that results in a reduction in the various emissions, and we want to be
able to calculate this and quantify that for each of the strategies, so that that's people
understand that there are, that's one.of the benefits of the mitigation strategies.
On the noise, our approach here, our purpose here is to explain the relationship
between noise and traffic so everybody understands what we're dealing with and
basically the kinds of attributes that contribute to noise, things like how much traffic,
what kind of traffic, what's the composition, obviously more trucks, more noise... the
speed implication when traffic is stopping or starting or accelerating or trucks going
downhill, and using their engines or airbrakes. Those kinds of real issues, very
annoying, it may happen once or twice a day, but it can be very annoying, particularly if
it's not at night. So, given that noise is undesirable and annoying, we want to identify
strategies that get to the source of it, which is really the traffic that's creating that
noise, so by being able to develop strategies that reduce, whether it's volume or
whether types of vehicles or the speed of vehicles, those kind of traffic management
programs, and trip reduction programs... by doing that, we're getting to the source of
noise, so we can identify reductions in potential noise impacts by talking about and
understanding what we're proposing to do to reduce traffic or to control traffic. So,
we'll be able sort of to show the implications of doing that.
Ms. Wolf - And then let's see, the final section under 314 that we've added, this is
something that really came out of our discussion that we had at the resource
committee: "General description of visitor and other traffic generated by facilities
and /or programs on the Cornell campus ". This is really a discussion, we talk about all
the service delivery, employees, staff, students, and then someone said well, there are,
what about people who are coming to drop their kids off at daycare or the Vet school,
people bring their animals to the Vet school to the clinic. There are a whole array of
programs that attract visitors to the campus, and that's a whole different kind of user,
so what about them? And, are there likely to be substantial programs expansions that
would also attract that user group. So, that has been added as a category here.
Chairperson Wilcox — Would that include sporting events?
Ms. Wolf-- Let's see, sporting events, I think is included under special events. If you go
up, scroll back, 3145, existing traffic conditions and mitigation strategies for special
events. That's kind of like student move -in, graduation, sporting events, and they have
mitigation plans in place for all those kinds of events, so those will be described.
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Chairperson Wilcox — OK.
Ms. Wolf - OK, now if we go down to 315: Parking. We have really just elaborated
here, we've got description of parking for the students, faculty, staff and visitors on
campus and we've now, the previous version identified only existing parking, we've now
expanded that to also include any known planned parking facilities, and sort of what the
gains and losses might be from those changes in parking. And then letter c, this is
something that came out of the public comment period, municipal Collegetown parking
garage, asking us to also include in the analysis existing municipal garages and known
planned garages.
Then 3.2 is an entirely new section, I believe the original draft addressed
neighborhoods, were really embedded under vehicular circulations. We've now pulled
this out, this was obviously a bog concern of the public, and we recognize that and we
pulled this out, and we also originally had not used the word livability, thinking that
there might be confusion about the definition of that term. But clearly this is something
that people in this community understand and what addressed, and so we are in
agreement with that and have added that here. Essentially under section 3.21, what
we're going to do under section 321 is we're going to look...
Chairperson Wilcox — Before you go on, will you read the revised language of 3.2?
Ms. Wolf - Sure, the one in front of you?
Chairperson Wilcox — Yeah, the one you handed out this evening.
Ms. Wolf - For 3.2: "This section will identify the existing transportation systems and
issues described in sections 331 to 315 as they relate to residential areas and specific
neighborhoods, and will include issues identified by residents. Neighborhood livability,
character and participation will be addressed as described below. The purpose of this
section is to lay the foundation for discussion and evaluation of impacts, section 4, and
mitigations, section 5, affecting neighborhoods."
Chairperson Wilcox Thank you.
Ms. Wolf - Would you like me to read the new language for 321?
Chairperson Wilcox — Yes, I think it's important.
Ms. Wolf - OK, sure. OK, so the new language says: "For each..." actually the whole
first part of it is unchanged, only the last part is changed, but do you want me to read
the entirety?
Chairperson Wilcox — Read the entire thing, please.
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Ms. Wolf - OK: "For each residential area identified below in section 322, general
neighborhood livability and character along major access routes to campus, will be
qualitatively described and will include, where applicable, abutting land uses and
density, street widths, building setbacks, street scape aesthetics, problematic sections
of road, roadway shoulders, sidewalks and bicycle routes and facilities, safety, bus
routes and facilities, and service delivery and construction routes. The purpose is not to
duplicate existing livability studies or to provide an exhaustive catalog of characteristics,
but rather to consider existing livability and neighborhood information in enough detail
to determine impacts and identify mitigation strategies where impacts are significant,
on a neighborhood by neighborhood basis."
So I think also, just to paraphrase, I think the intention under that section is to
really look at each neighborhood and say what are the essential characters that are
really, what are the essential elements that contribute to the character of this
neighborhood? And it could be, it will be very different in different neighborhoods, but
what is most important to the neighborhood character in a given location, so if it's
narrow streets with mature trees for example, that tells us that mitigation strategies
that go in and widen the roadway and therefore impact the trees is probably not a good
idea in that location. So, these are the kinds of things we're looking at, what are the
defining features of the neighborhood character and so that begins to tell us how they
are sensitive to traffic impacts. In a nutshell that's what we're assessing there and
trying to get a handle on.
Then 322, I guess we didn't have any changes, 322 there's no changes on your
new sheet, but here we've identified all of the neighborhoods, that's been discussed
before. I think what's new to you here is we have the, we've developed further our
method for participation and for engaging neighborhood involvement, and so we've
talked with the university neighborhoods council, as well as the Ithaca neighborhoods
council, and these are. existing umbrella groups... the City for example. staff the Ithaca
Neighborhoods Council, Leslie Chatterton at the City does. And so, they sponsor events
on a regular basis, so the thought is, because the list of neighborhoods has gotten quite
long and then there is this whole question of how do you define the neighborhoods,
what if there is not an actual association to call up, or some people don't even belong
to a neighborhood. So the thought is that the outreach would occur through these
existing umbrella groups, and that the neighborhood meetings would occur, they would
actually be grouped together, we've talked about having them sort of possibly, west
side, east side geographic division, and then really reach out to all of the neighborhoods
in those areas, east side /west side, through these existing umbrella groups. And we
would of course work with them to make sure that if there are other groups or
neighborhoods or residential areas that they're not typically outreaching too that that's
also happening. And then of course, we have our extensive stakeholder list, and other
venues that would be utilized to bring, to reach out to people, but the people who staff
these neighborhood councils, think it's a good idea, our resource committee endorsed
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it, and so this is the proposed methodology for the neighborhood meetings. And I think
we're thinking at this point, in terms of the general neighborhood. meetings, probably
three meetings: information gathering, early on; reaction to early proposals and inputs
and then discussion of more finalized proposals.
OK, moving on to section 4.1: the hypothetical Cornell population growth
scenarios over the next decade. Here I would like to direct you to your sheet that I've
distributed, revision 5. And I think, what we did, we heard concern that how do we
know these growth scenarios accurately reflect what is likely to occur at Cornell? So
the revision 5 is intended to clarify that. So I'm assuming you would like me to read
this, Fred?
Chairperson Wilcox — go ahead.
Ms. Wolf - So this would simply be an addition under the very first heading.
"Hypothetical Cornell population growth scenarios will be studied for the main campus.
All projects in the current Cornell capital plan, not all of which may be built, were
examined, and their collective population growth as currently estimated was midway
between scenarios 2 and 3 listed below." So the, you can see what those were, "and
these include projects such as Life Sciences Technology, Millstein Hall, Johnson Art
Museum, Martha Van Rensallear North replacement, Bailey Hall renovation, East
Campus Research facility, Lynah Rink expansion, Plantations headquarters addition, and
Physical Sciences, which are all in a five year plus or minus planning horizon." So, once
again I think, because the collective population increase of this falls between the
second and third scenario, I think again we've been conservative in that both the third
and fourth scenario, should exceed what is actually planned.
OK, now I'm going to move to section 4.3. Some of these other sections are
really redundant, the changes are all. Because Section 3 is existing conditions, and
then section 4 is all the same language except we're looking at the growth scenarios
overlayed. Now, if we look at section 4.3, and this has been revised as per your sheet,
that I just handed out, revision 6: Impact of each hypothetical Cornell population
growth scenario on neighborhoods. And that now reads "This section will identify
residential areas that could experience potential significant adverse impacts from an
increase in traffic, cars, transit buses, construction, service and delivery vehicles, as a
result of population growth at Cornell. Potential impacts will be evaluated in enough
detail to determine effects on neighborhood character and livability using the
characteristics described in section 321, and on the systems described in 311 through
315. Additional livability issues will be considered where appropriate, such as
identifiable safety hazards, suitability for bus routes, and potential for speeding." So,
this is now overlaying the impacts, and this is where we take that livability, character
analysis that we talked about earlier and we say OK, is this neighborhood really suitable
for bus routes. That's really the impact analysis that occurs here.
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OK, let's see, then section, at the bottom of page 11, bicycles, 5212, that's
revision 7 on your sheet that's handed out today. This is in response to, we got an e-
mail, I think just, I think yesterday we got an e-mail from the City of Ithaca Bicycle and
Pedestrian Advisory Board, and one of the things that they were very interested in
having us look at is improvements to uphill movement, because of course the hills are
real obstacles here for bicycle use. And so, the language in.revision 7 is in response to
that suggestion by the bicycle and pedestrian committee.
Chairperson Wilcox — That was the e-mail from David Kay, I believe, right?
Ms. Wolf - Correct.
Chairperson Wilcox — Yes, thank you.
Board Member Mitrano — I think they should put chairlifts up on all of the roads.
Ms. Wolf - They'd like something like that. And then let's see, I think finally revision 8,
it's the last one I'm going to bring to your attention; and that's the mitigation strategies
relative to neighborhoods, and just the first paragraph is revised in front of you. And
what that says is "description of how mitigation strategies described in section 521 to
523 will effect residential. areas. Additional mitigation strategies will be proposed for
specific residential areas, in which impacts identified in section 4 were not mitigated by
the strategies in 521 to 523, these could include items such as traffic calming measures
and safety improvements." So these could be mitigation measures specific for
neighborhoods but. not necessarily for the broader system. And I think, I also want to
emphasize there I think, we also, one of the other things that I think also came out in
discussions, and I think there is a concern out there that, I think there is a very real
concern by the neighborhoods that mitigation strategies will be proposed as part of this
project, and then those mitigation strategies could have impacts on the neighborhood,
but that those impacts wouldn't be considered. I mean, we recognize that, and the
intention is absolutely to consider and evaluate the pros and cons of any mitigation
strategy, and I am certain that there may be mitigation strategies that will be
considered unacceptable perhaps in certain neighborhoods, because of the impact on
the neighborhood. So that absolutely is an important part of what we're doing here.
So I know that is a concern out there, and that is absolutely part of what our analysis
is. What are the proposed mitigation strategies, what do those then mean for the
neighborhoods, so are they appropriate or not. So I think that completes the things
that I wanted to review with you.
Chairperson Wilcox George, did you want to say anything?
Mr. Alexiou - No, I think Kathy has covered it well.
Chairperson Wilcox — Your comments have now been taken into account?
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Board Member Mitrano — Yes, they've been addressed.
Chairperson Wilcox - Where do we want to start? I'm sure we've all read through, I'm
sure we've all made our own comments and notes. Eva?
Board Member Hoffmann — Yes, on all kinds of different papers, and now we have new
papers, and trying to, it's very very difficult to deal with this, actually. And I would love
to have been able to interrupt you and ask you questions as you were presenting this,
but I think we're going to have to go all through it again. I'm not sure what's the best
way.
Chairperson Wilcox — Before we
Brittains addressed to their house?
Board Member Conneman — Yes.
get going, did everyone receive a letter from. the
Chairperson Wilcox — I just want to make sure everybody saw... we have a... OK. I got
mine, even though it was addressed to the wrong address.
Mr. D. Brittain - It was?
Chairperson Wilcox — Yeah. 600 Warren Road, that way you can send me more mail.
Board Member Hoffmann — No, and I'm not even sure...
Chairperson Wilcox — OK, Eva has the floor, go ahead.
Board Member Hoffmann — No, I'm not sure that I want to do it this way, that I go
through all my points, I think it might be better if we go through the document point by
point, and everyone who has something to say about that point gets a chance, and
then we discuss that point, all of us. Instead of me going through all of mine, and then
George all of his.
Board Member Conneman — Well, I'd like to start with Purpose, OK. In this original
thing you gave us, you indicated very strongly that, if I can find this quickly, the
purpose dealt with neighborhoods. It says there the IS will study the effect on the
surrounding community, outline ways to reduce adverse transportation. And then of
course you came to this single occupancy vehicle issue. It seems to me that under
purpose, when you put a purpose down, you want to state what you want to do, and
the first part of this, in my opinion, you don't talk about what the major objective is. If
the major objective is to develop ways to reduce trips through a neighborhood, that
should be part of it. But, in any statement that I've ever seen where you have a goal
or what it is, you state that up front. It isn't stated here at all in my opinion. Purpose
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is something that sounds like transportation jargon to me, instead of saying look, the
major objective of this GEIS is to develop ways to reduce traffic through neighborhoods
and so forth, and part of that strategy may be to reduce; to discourage single
occupancy vehicles. But I don't see the purpose stated there.
Ms. Wolf - George, I guess, I would, are you looking at page 1 of the draft scope?
Board Member Conneman — I'm on page 1 of the draft scope that is dated January it
and so forth.
Ms. Wolf - And the very first sentence says, I think the very first sentence states the
broad purpose.
Board Member Conneman —That is so confusing that the general public doesn't
understand what that means. If you put it into normal language and say the major
objective is to reduce traffic through neighborhoods, it would be meaningful, which is
what you said originally in this thing in my opinion. So, I think that first purpose should
state exactly what the purpose of this study is in simple language that everybody can
understand. And if you do that, there will be a lot less confusion about what you are
going to do. And I can't imagine that you hadn't thought about that before. I know
some people say well, it's obvious what's there, but in my view, I won't give you my
lecture on why you put things in writing, but you put down what you're going to do in
simple language so everybody can understand it, I don't think it's there.
Board Member Howe — For me it would work, George, if in that second, actually the
third paragraph, again on the first page... I mean, I think it says very clearly that it's
about getting people, not vehicle to the Cornell campus, but if they added a sentence
and if we go back to what Forest Home, remember I think at the last meeting Forest
Home gave us a draft copy of this with some potential revisions, and they had a
sentence in there that added with a companion goal of maintaining or increasing the
quality of life in neighborhoods. So if we added some sentence like that to the purpose,
it helps, I think it broadens it, I mean it's there, but I think it would be helpful to
stipulate that up front as part of the purpose.
Board Member Conneman — It's there, but it isn't there, Rod, and that's my point, that
that ought to be there. I mean you put things in writing because you want to
remember what you agreed to, and you want to be able to use it as a roadmap, and if
you're going to do that then you got to have a general direction at the beginning, not
some place in the middle, where it gets all confused with everything else.
Ms. Wolf - George is just saying to me, I think the real purpose is this sentence in the
third paragraph that Rod just pointed to, the third sentence there, excuse me, fourth
sentence says "the focus of the mitigation strategies in this t -GEIS will be on ways of
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getting people, not vehicles to the Cornell campus. I don't know if there's a way to
move that up perhaps, and...
Board Member Conneman — The focus of mitigation?
Ms. Wolf - correct.
Board Member Conneman — Again, I don't think that that states clearly that one of the
objectives is, or that the main objective is to keep traffic out of neighborhoods.
Board Member Howe — That's what I'm suggesting, if we just add it on to that
sentence, with a companion goal of maintaining or increasing the quality of life of the
neighborhoods or something like that.
Board Member Conneman — Well, I still think that's pretty vague, Rod, that's my
opinion. I would much rather have you add the sentence that I guess the Brittain
brothers put in their revision, because that is clear to me. I've tried it on some other
people who say yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Ms. Wolf - What's the sentence?
Board Member Conneman — The sentence says "a. major objective of the GEIS is to
develop ways to reduce the number of trips by motor vehicles traveling through
residential neighborhoods on their way to and from Cornell." I couldn't say it any
better. That was a sentence that you apparently rejected when you did this matrix.
Chairperson Wilcox — Hold on a second, I got a problem. I'm getting hand signals from
back there because I told them they couldn't talk, so I'm getting hand signals.
Mr. D. Brittain - [inaudible] to comment, except to say that if you are going to be
discussing theirs from January 11, I did take a version of January 11, and I put a little
"c" on the left -hand column every time one of our comments from two weeks ago
[inaudible] a comment that was not incorporated into ... [inaudible) just so that for
instance, there's a little "c" here and that was [inaudible].
Chairperson Wilcox — So what I have is another copy... OK.
Mr. D. Brittain - It was just to [inaudible] what public comment has not been
incorporated [inaudible]. You can decide whether or not you'd like it in the discussion,
but you would all be looking at it.
Board Member Mitrano — I have never known you to take long comments from
someone who hasn't given their name and address and stepped up to the microphone.
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Mr. Kanter — Maybe Fred will repeat who that was who just talked.
Chairperson Wilcox — That was Bruce Brittain.
Mr. D. Brittain - Doug.
Chairperson Wilcox — Oh it was Doug, I'm sorry.
Board Member Conneman My other point would .be flow of traffic when you talk about
single occupancy vehicles. That comes second, that doesn't come first in my opinion.
Ms. Wolf - Well, I think if I could just, if we reduce single occupancy vehicle use, if
we're successful in that, then there is less traffic going through the neighborhoods,
there is less impact on the neighborhoods, that's why.,..
Board Member Conneman — But you state what your major objective is, then you say
there are various ways we can do that, single occupancy vehicles, maybe bicycles,,
maybe skateboards, I don't know, whatever. But it seems to me you put the cart
before the horse, that's one of the mitigation methods, that's not the purpose or
objective.
Chairperson Wilcox — Only if you have the microphone.
Ms. Egan - Shirley Egan from Cornell. I think one of the things we have to bear in mind
is that a t -GEIS is not the action. If you turn to page 3 for a description of the
proposed action, an extensive amount of additional language was added, including the
sentence that TIMS will grow out of the mitigation sections, and TIMS will outline ways
to reduce adverse transportation impacts of potential Cornell University population
growth, with an emphasis on reducing single occupancy vehicle trips including those
through residential areas. I think as we did this, we thought that perhaps, with all due
respect, that might be the more appropriate place to put that language, so we did
actually incorporate it in there. TIMS becomes the action, rather than a t -GEIS. A t-
GEIS is more like the pair of glasses through which you look at the action.
Board Member Hoffmann — Shirley, could you say which version you were reading
from?
Ms. Egan - I am reading from the full redline version you have dated January 11tH
Board Member Hoffmann — The what version?
Ms. Egan - January 11 version.
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Board Member Hoffmann -
didn't make my comments
on the other version, so h
the November 15 version,
please say again what you
about?
the
on tl
ere I
but
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one with the lines. OK, now it just so happened that I
ie one with the lines for the added things, I made them
am sitting, trying to. And I am also looking mainly at
I am also looking at the January 11. And could you
said; and refer again to the paragraph you were talking
Ms. Egan - Yes, it's in Roman Numeral II, which should be someplace on the third page
I imagine, even in the version you're looking at, under description of the proposed
action, it's the paragraph that begins "this transportation focused generic environmental
impact statement is being written pursuant... to study TIMS." And it goes on to
describe what the t -GEIS will do and then it says "TIMS" and this is the new language
will grow out of the mitigation section, section 5, of the t -GEIS. TIMS" that's the ten
year transportation impact mitigation strategies "will outline ways to reduce ways to
reduce adverse transportation impacts on potential Cornell University population
growth, with an emphasis on reducing single- occupancy vehicle trips, including those
through residential areas."
Board Member Conneman — You always put your objective first on page 1 at the top,
that's my argument.
Board Member Mitrano — What I want to understand is are we arguing form or
substance here?
Board Member Conneman — We're arguing substance because substance comes first,
you have to say what you're going to do Tracy.
Board Member Mitrano — Well, I write a lot of policy, George, and if what they want to
do is write the purpose in here and talk about how they're going to do it inside, and you
just want it flipped, that's a matter of form, that you can decide whether you want to
do it or not...
Board Member Conneman — It's very...
Board Member Mitrano — But if we're giving a difference in what.the substance is, that's
something really to dig into and talk about.
Board Member Conneman = there is a difference in substance of what you put first.
Chairperson Wilcox — Eva?
Board Member Hoffmann — I have another problem with the purpose section which I've
already talked about before, and that is at the two public hearings on December 6 and
on January 3, Ms. Wolf made a very brief statement about what the purpose was, and
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it was essentially, well I can read it, as I did at the last meeting, from the minutes of
the December 6t' meeting. It says, "The primary purpose of the project is to identify
strategies to reduce single- occupancy vehicle trips by the Cornell population. That's our
primary objective with this project. We're seeking global solutions that will achieve
reduced dependence on single: occupancy vehicle use," and that was repeated almost
word for word at both meetings, and those were the meetings where the public was
here, so that's what the public heard, that's what the reporters from the news media
heard. They did not hear the text that's in either the November 15, 05 version or the
January 11, 06 version of purpose of transportation GEIS, the purpose of the scoping
and the scope, and in fact, this language about the reduction of the single... the vehicle
with just one person in it, does not appear in the November 15 version and it bothers
me, and I haven't heard an explanation for why we heard just that one very narrow
purpose both of those times instead of everything that's in the November 15 version
that now has been expanded.
Ms. Wolf - I would be happy to respond. to that, Eva.
Board Member Hoffmann — And why the public didn't hear all of it.
Ms. Wolf - Well, obviously the public had the full document.
Board Member Hoffmann — Did they?
Ms. Wolf - the November 15 document, sure, we brought extra copies and they were
out at the front desk for people to pick up.
Board Member Hoffmann — OK, I'm glad. I didn't know.
Ms. Wolf - Sure. And we had mailed to what? Like 54 people on the stakeholders list,
that was broadly; broadly distributed.
Board Member Hoffmann — I'll have to...
1. Chairperson Wilcox— Let her answer your question.
Board Member Hoffmann — Yes, please.
Ms. Wolf - It became very clear, and this was our mistake, but it became very clear that
everyone interpreted that original scope as being focused on vehicular circulation and
as the desire to get vehicles to Cornell. It became clear that somehow people thought
that's what we were trying to do, when in fact — and that was our fault, in that we
didn't explain it well at all. When we talked about having, looking at transportation
mitigation, the entire purpose here was to really look at how to not have all these
vehicles coming to Cornell, and primarily through reduction...I mean reduction of SOV's
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means getting people to use pedestrian, to walk, to use bikes, to use transit, et cetera.
And that was all in there, in that it was all in that original scope, I mean nothing
changed, it's simply that the message and the way it was presented came across to
people that we were trying to get the most vehicles to campus, when in fact that was
not. at all the intention. So, to try to communicate it in the simplest possible terms, to
have a very simple and not elaborate explanation, knowing that all this language about
hypothetical growth potentials, as George has just pointed out, was confusing to him,
we tried to come up with.a very simple way to describe just simply, fundamentally what
is it we are trying to accomplish. And so, I think if you look at any of it, none of it, the
substance has not changed, it was just the original was read to imply that we were
going to ... I heard one resident say "they're going to widen the roads in our
neighborhoods to get more vehicles to campus," which the idea is to get people to take
other modes so we didn't have to do that, that was the intention. And so we were
simply trying to get that message across.
Board Member Hoffmann — Still, it's what it says in the papers that we have to talk
about and vote on, it's not what was stated verbally at the meeting.
Board Member Conneman — It's only repeating something.:.
Board Member Hoffmann — It's the words on the paper that matter.
Board Member Conneman - Repeating something, Kathryn, is OK. Clarity says you say
it twice in a different area, that's fine, because then people understand it. But up front,
when you're doing a research project, you put the objective up front; you don't put it
on page 3.
Ms. Wolf - We didn't do a very good job with the first draft.
Board Member Conneman — Well, I don't think you did a very good job with whatever
this draft is either, unless you add the sentence that I talked about.
Board Member Howe — I mean I think the first three paragraphs do become very
important, because a lot of people look at the introduction background to get a quick
read, and I think folks will still read those first three paragraphs and get a sense,
they're not worried about neighborhoods. Yes, you're worried about — I think it would
be very easy to add some sentence in there to let neighborhoods know that you're
concerned about quality of life in neighborhoods.
Ms. Wolf - I think we can do that, I think we can do that.
Ms. Egan - Clearly, we'll do that, but I think...
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Chairperson Wilcox — Shirley, I need... And I will bring up, I will gladly bring up the
wireless one, if that will.
Ms. Egan - Well, if we can pass it back and forth, we'll try that for a while.
Chairperson Wilcox — OK.
Ms. Egan - I think, George, we can take care of yours, there's no problem. As I often
lecture my clients, SEQR is about redundancy. They quoted it back to me today, to my
embarrassment, and we can certainly put that right up front. There's two things here
that have to do with your comment, Eva. First, after we got it finished, we realized it
was something that had been written by transportation planning types. It was
professional, it was bland, it talked in very neutral terms what the intention was, and
didn't get into the intention. We realize that. I think your concern over what the public
had to review, the whole point of public review is that the public is to say what we want
to have added to it, and in fact, what the public wanted to have added was what we
had hoped would shine through anyway, but obviously didn't. So, when you've added
something to the scope as a result of the scoping comments, and I hope you did have
the chance to review the matrix where we show all the many things that have been
added to the scope, it is not then necessary to go back and say but the public didn't get
to see this, because that is the whole point of it is that you do add the things that the
public asks you to do, and that we have done.
Board Member Hoffmann — Right, but if the public hears that the purpose is something
very, very simple, and they don't hear part of what it is, which is .actually in the text,
then they get the wrong impression perhaps, they think maybe it's simpler, and there's
less to it than there is.
Ms. Egan - Well, evidence suggests that the public did have a copy of the scope, rather
that just what they heard in the media or from Kathryn's presentation. I think we have
good evidence that people really took the scope and read it line by line, if I were
concerned that they didn't, I might agree with you, but I just don't think there's any
evidence much for that.
Board Member Mitrano — If, assuming that you guys are going to keep this format, that
is you're going to begin with introduction and background, may I just offer a suggestion
as to how we can...
Chairperson Wilcox — That's our job.
Board Member Mitrano - .., a little bit of the form and a little bit of the substance issue
we're getting here. It's a little bit of wordsmithing, you'll excuse me. "The purpose of
the transportation focused GEIS, t- GEIS,..."
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Chairperson Wilcox.— Can I get the microphone closer, because I definitely want to pick
this up.
Board Member Mitrano — Well, we'll see when it's done...
Chairperson Wilcox — No, I definitely want to pick it up.
Board Member Mitrano - ... "is to identify, examine, and evaluate the impact of CU
transportation on" — and that's what I think everyone is arguing about, why don't. you
say it right there? It's on what, on neighborhoods ?, on what ?, what's the impact on ?,
or for or whom or about? — "and to explore possible mitigations for hypothetical Cornell
University population growth scenarios over the next decade." It kills two birds with
one stone.
Board Member Howe — It's going to be hard to get, it's a lot of wordsmithing tonight,
rather than just...
Board Member Mitrano —,I don't mean to go through everything, but.listening to what
people are saying and suggesting that that could help us —that one -piece right there.
Chairperson Wilcox — If anyone thinks that we're going to approve anything before ten
O'clock tonight, they are sadly mistaken. Especially because we've been spending the
last 15 minutes scolding the people in the process rather than offering improvements.
Board Member Conneman — We've been networking with them, not scolding, please.
You may scold people, I don't.
Chairperson Wilcox — OK, we should spend the time and go through it, paragraph by
paragraph I agree, that we should go through it, not individually or one by one, but
paragraph by paragraph, maybe some paragraphs we'll skip over very quickly and make
whatever comments we wish to offer.
Board Member Mitrano —Well, I'm done.
Chairperson Wilcox — Clearly one of the issues, briefly, one of the issues is that we have
a revised document from the eleventh, and then we have additional changes that came
about this afternoon that we became aware of this evening, and I'm sure that there will
be some additional changes suggested and /or mandated by this board, or
recommended to be made, so given that, I'd like to move through. So, we've gotten
through the issue of, we'd like the draft scope to clearly indicate what the purpose is
and what's being studied.
Board Member Thayer — I think of George's comments is that simpler language adds to
the clarity, and that's definitely what I think we need to do.
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Board Member Conneman — I respect transportation people, but they talk in certain
terms that economists do sometime you can't understand them.
Board Member Talty — As the acronym goes, KISS, right?
Board Member Conneman — Keep it Simple Stupid.
Chairperson Wilcox - On the other hand, we keep it simple, use terminology we all
understand, but on the other hand,. it has to be technical enough to be clear exactly
what we're telling them to do and they're committing to do.
Board Member Conneman — But that can follow, Fred, that can follow the statement.
Chairperson Wilcox Yeah, no, I hear you, I hear you. All right. Have we gotten
through the introduction and background? I think we kind of have. And we, essentially
we're hoping that when we review the next draft in two weeks, I'm jumping ahead, but
when we review the next draft, there will be language in there that will be acceptable.
Rod, you OK?
Board Member Howe — Where...?
Chairperson Wilcox — I'm saying, have we given them enough input on the purpose and
that so that we can skip ahead to Part II of the draft scope?
Board Member Talty — No, I still have some questions related to what the t -GEIS will
not address.
Chairperson Wilcox— Go ahead.
Board Member Talty — Just because I think there's already been an acknowledgement
that sometimes there's going to be neighborhood contextualization of issues. I don't
know if out of hand, I feel comfortable just saying we will not consider an historical or
archaeological resources, because that might be an issue in some neighborhoods. So, I
don't know if there's a way of...
Chairperson Wilcox — How might it be...?
[tape is flipped]
Board Member Talty — want to make sure that any mitigation strategies don't deter or
ruin any of the resources there in that particular community, but there's probably
examples from other neighborhoods that can be brought to bear, and I think in general,
yes, it's probably not going to be an issue, but I guess I'm a little uncomfortable out of
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hand saying it may not be an issue. The other thing I just want to point out, is I'm
wondering if there's actually a contradiction where we say we're not going to analyze
housing, but in Roman Numeral V, 5.1, we recognize that there is a relationship
between land use and transportation, and that would include housing locations. So, I'm
not sure whether there's a bit of a contradiction there, because there's a recognition
that it depends on where houses might get built, or where, in terms of where people
are going to have to get, how they're going to get to Cornell. I don't know how to deal
with that, I recognize that it's probably not going to be a major issue, but I guess I'm
looking for ways that it can stay in the mix if it's an issue.
Chairperson Wilcox — Is the issue the word analyze? That they won't analyze those?
Board Member Talty — Maybe.
Chairperson Wilcox — Yeah. Making it clear that while they won't be analyzed, impacts
on those, the issue is you're not, I understand why you don't want to analyze them.
Board Member Talty — Right.
Chairperson Wilcox — But, on the other hand, we want to make sure that if a, if
something that grows out of TIMS has an impact.
Ms. Wolf - Rein me in here, Shirley, if I'm...
Chairperson Wilcox — Let her go, Shirley.
Ms. Wolf - I think that this is a generic environmental impact statement, so in many
cases we aren't talking about real site - specific proposals, there are potential mitigations,
so we're not getting down to the nitty-gritty detail that you would get down to at the
point that you bring something in for a site plan review. I do think it is probably true
that when we look at things like neighborhood livability for example, and as I described,
we're going to look at each neighborhood, and we're going to say what are the
essential important characteristics of this neighborhood, and I think that where historic
architecture is sort of obviously a part of the mix, I think we would identify that, and
that we would, and that we wouldn't, we .would want to be certain that we weren't
proposing anything that might negatively impact that. So, but I think it's sort of at that
level, I mean, I can't imagine that it's not, at that level it's definitely there and we
would be thinking about it, and it would be a part of the thinking.
Board Member Howe — Well, I think you're right that the word analyze is sort of... it's .
almost like you say we're not going to analyze these, but we recognize that some. of
these issues could come up as we're addressing strategies or something.
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Ms. Wolf - So actually Bill suggested, we could maybe come up with some language I on
that, but perhaps we could say something like we may comment on, but not analyze,
may comment and identify...
Board Member Mitrano — Excuse me, having asked the question on form, now I really
am curious, what would the rest of that sentence read? The purpose of the study of is
to identify, examine and evaluate Cornell University's... the impact of Cornell
University's transportation on what? How do you answer that?
Ms. Egan - Well, it's on all the things we've listed here.
Board Member Mitrano — But maybe that's what you want to say right in your first
sentence in order to clear up the confusion, so you say later on what you're not going
to look at, but maybe right in your first sentence to help this issue, you want to say the
impact on x, y, and z and a, b, and c. And that way it's not vague. And then to say
that you will explore possible mitigations for blah, blah, blah.
Ms. Egan - Yeah, in simplistic terms it would transportation systems, and when we say
systems again we don't mean just vehicles, we mean transit, pedestrians, bicycles, and
neighborhoods. Transportation systems and neighborhoods, I think that's really what it
is.
Board Member Mitrano — And if that's what it is, then maybe that's all you want to do is
just be really clear in the first sentence about what it is.
Board Member Hoffmann — You mean in the first sentence under what the t -LEIS will
not address or the very first paragraph?
Board Member Mitrano — I'm way back, right at the top.
Ms. Egan - She went back.
Board Member Mitrano — By talking about what it's not going to include, it still wasn't
clear to me in the specific term, what it is about. So it's impact on...?
Ms. Egan - Transportation systems and neighborhoods.
Board Member Mitrano — There you go.
Chairperson Wilcox—, OK, Eva?
Board Member Hoffmann — In looking on the first page of the responsiveness summary
which also deals with the same first paragraphs that we have just been talking about, it
talks about these same issues, neighborhood livability, the visual resources, air quality
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and so on, that will be looked at, or that some people would like to have looked at. In
the column on the far right, which is the response, it talks about noise and pollution,
which is one of the things we just discussed, and that they are affected by traffic, and
they will be evaluated in the appropriate sections, but not on a neighborhood by
neighborhood basis, and I thought that you said, when you went through the whole
revision, that there would. be a neighborhood by neighborhood look at these things.
Did I misunderstand that?
Ms. Egan - We created, we did create a separate section for air pollution and noise. It
has a separate section, although I do think we discussed today that we, if again, like
we just discussed for historic, if there are noise issues in a neighborhood, they would
be identified.
Board Member Hoffmann Yes, and I think as someone else alluded to earlier, it
depends on where the neighborhood is, how much noise there is and how much air
pollution is from traffic specifically, because if you have a steep hill somewhere like you
have in Forest Home or like you have in various other parts of town, that's where the
cars and the trucks and buses are noisy whether they are going uphill or downhill, and
that's where some, especially again trucks and buses let off a lot of fumes, I assume it's
when they go in low gear, so I think you almost have to look at it on a neighborhood by
neighborhood basis and what the roads through the neighborhood are like, when it
comes to those two things at least.
And the other thing I would like to add on that page is my questioning of your,
of Ms. Wolf's statements about what the project included and what the purpose was,
which I did at the planning board meeting on January 3rd, and I can give.you references
to where the text appears in the minutes of the Planning Board meetings, too. But
that's an oral comment that was not included here.
Chairperson Wilcox — At this rate...
Board Member Hoffmann — Yeah, I know, whatever comments I make always take.too
much time...
Chairperson Wilcox — No, no, no, that wasn't specific to you, it was just specific to this
board.
Ms. Egan - If I may, Mr. Chairman?
Chairperson Wilcox — Pardon?
Ms. Egan - I think this is a specific response to Eva's comment, but I think has general
application. We realized very early on that a generic environmental impact statement is
a very very broad document. You need to have a certain amount of
comprehensiveness to it for it to be useful, but that we didn't want to get so totally lost
in the details that it became a grand exercise in creating encyclopedic detail about
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things. So in any instance, when we were trying to decide well, did this mean, for
instance, we should set up noise receptor devices in each neighborhood to find out how
loud a truck was in that neighborhood, or something that would sniff the emissions and
tell you what the air. pollution was like there. We tried to ask ourselves in each
instance, and I urge you to ask yourselves, what would having that kind of catalogue of
information actually do, given the overall purposes here? Do you really need to know
what the emissions are in this neighborhood versus that neighborhood in order to know
almost more by windshield survey that they're worse here than there, or that this is a
pocket or this has a hillside, or this has more trucks and to then come up with
mitigation strategies. We were trying to find that balance between doing so much
detail that in fact resources were, were not really being allocated where they needed to
be. Did we really need to know this in order to know something needed mitigation?
Did we really need to know it in order to know that it was an impact? And I think that
was the point of this comment was that we weren't going to go neighborhood by
neighborhood to say yours was this many decibels, and this was that many decibels.
That sort of level of detail wasn't necessary to know that something was noisy and
needed mitigation. So, you know, please rest assured that we're trying to be sensible
and professional and something comes up or comes to our attention, we're going to use
common sense about its inclusion and commenting on it, but we're trying not to get
ourselves and you and the public and everyone so lost in detail that it ceases to be as
useful a document as it really, truly could be for everyone.
Board Member Hoffmann — Right. And I don't think that one necessarily has to include
a lot of detail, but there has to be more than just a way for us to rest assured that it
will be taken care of. It has to be mentioned in the papers, that something will be done
to acknowledge that there are problems, certain problems that are worse in certain
neighborhoods, because of certain topographical changes and things like that. There
are lots of different reasons, that was just one that. I mentioned.
Ms. Egan - Well, I think if you look at the way we try to structure this, it's so that all
these various factors are listed in the 1 -5 in the section about neighborhoods, in each of
section 3, 4, and 5. The existing impacts of. mitigation. And then you say we're going
to take the neighborhood, and take into account its defining characteristics and what
the residents there tell us, and look at each of those factor that we had studied and try
to understand what they mean for that neighborhood. So, in that list of 1 -5, that's
where noise is, that's where truck traffic is, or whatever, it was a way of bringing some
order to this so that we could describe those sorts of factors in the system, and then
take them and say what does that mean as far as existing conditions, as far as impacts,
as far as mitigation for the neighborhood. I think if you understand how we're trying to
structure that, it enable the transportation people to give the sort of more scientific
overview, and than also put the human touch on it, so what does all this mean, you
know, addressing George's comment about economists and that sort of thing.
Board Member Conneman — I'm an economist, by the way.
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Ms. Egan - That's why I thought it was unfair of you to do that. To have that so that
people say what does this mean for me, and that's why that separate section. So I
think it's not, it's unfair to mention it, in fact, we pull that out in each of those
neighborhood sections that we will be looking at those systems, those factors above,
and relating them to the neighborhood using those defining characteristics. So, I think
we're in agreement with Eva, and I'm just trying to help you understand the structure
by which we are addressing it, is what makes a lot of sense. We'll be able to help
people relate it to what's going on.
Board Member Conneman — But you do need traffic counts in some neighborhoods.
You have to have some quantitative data in order to make judgments.
Ms. Egan - Absolutely, and that is why it's there, that is why it's there.
Chairperson Wilcox — We're not getting far very quickly. So, I want to try a different
strategy, Eva, and we may be able to do it. I, for example, have a list of questions I
wish to ask on things, and I think I can get through it between now and ten O'clock,
and maybe some other members of this board can as well, and that way at least we
know that we've gone through and dealt with my issues or someone else's issues,
because right now we're still on page 1 or one and a half. So, if we could try that, it
means just going through, so each one of us will unfortunately go through the
document, but so far, I want to get something done. OK, so I'm going to start.
Board Member Talty — But Fred, would it make sense that if you are on an issue that
we also address, we should...
Chairperson Wilcox — Chime in. I don't mind people chiming in. And, granted, I'll
repeat what's been said. It's somewhat difficult, given we have a draft dated the 11th
and then we've got some changes that were presented this evening, which addressed
many many of my issues which had to do with neighborhood. So, having said that, I
want to go to the hypothetical scenarios, which is on page 9 of 14. Could someone...
here is my concern, scenario 2 which is population increase of one tenth of 1 per cent a
year, 300 people over 10 years, 30 people a year. Boy, that sounds awful close to no
growth. I mean, to me, it almost seems like the same thing. In my demographic
world, if you've got 30,000 people, and ten years later it's 30,300, boy that's stability.
That's no growth. So, I'm almost wondering if scenario 1 and 2 are the same thing or
that scenario 2 is scenario 1 with an error. They are so similar.
Board Member Conneman — That raises my question, why don't we see scenario 5?
Why don't we do 4 and 5, which would make some sense and give us an impact?
Because these other things are random.
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Chairperson Wilcox — Before you respond, I, I, it is a waste of time and resources to do
scenarios number 1, and number 2 if they invest their time in scenarios 3 and 5, this is
my feeling, if they invest their time in scenarios 3 and 5 per cent growth, then there's
time that's not going to something that's appropriate and necessary. Now, it's their
problem if their growth rate turns out to be 3 or 5 per cent, because then they have a
worthless, then they have a worthless document, and they've got to live with it. So,
they have to be pretty confident that growth rates of greater than 1 per cent cannot
and will not occur.
Board Member Talty — I have to add Fred, that they were giving worst -case scenarios,
so that should be incorporated throughout the whole document.
Chairperson Wilcox — Well, 1 percent is their worst -case scenario. And, and...
Board Member Talty — Well, I think worst -case scenario should be open- ended... right?
Do you know what I'm saying? How do you quantify that?
Board Member Conneman — That's 300 people a year.
Board Member Talty - but how are you going to top it off? Worst case scenarios.
Chairperson Wilcox — it is only 300 people a year, and it doesn't seem like a lot, but you
know what? They have a worthless study if it comes, well, I'm sorry, not a worthless
study, they have a study that's not worth its weight if the growth rate comes in greater
than 1 percent. So, I'm pretty darn sure that they'd throw in a 1 and a half or 2 if they
thought it was at all possible.
Board Member Hoffmann — But I have a question actually about what is meant by the
Cornell population. Is it the 1 person in the household who commutes back and forth
to Cornell, and the other people in the household are not counted? So those 3000
persons under the 1 percent growth, is that only those people who are employed at
Cornell?
Ms. Egan - Correct, that's correct.
Board Member Hoffmann — So maybe that's not such a small increase.
Chairperson Wilcox — I think I had a question on the floor.
Ms. Egan- What was your question, Fred?
Chairperson Wilcox — What's the difference between no growth and .1% per year?
Other than...
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Ms. Egan - While, .1 %, you're correct that it's very low, but it actually did occur
between 1990 and 1999, could happen, it's possible. Scenario 1, no growth, that's the
scenario we would run to look at what would be the increase in traffic in the area if
there was no growth at Cornell, because there is other growth, and so that establishes,
that becomes the baseline, and so that's kind of a necessary, and I think that's almost a
SEQR requirement, the no growth scenario. So that becomes the baseline to which the
others are added.
Board Member Conneman — But if you look at revision 5, which is 4.1, you talk about all
those projects, you've got to hire people and that... I mean, supposedly the life science
building is going to have 100 or 150 new faculty, what I've been told, and I don't know
how many more students we're going to get for various reasons, so that's, if you
believe revision 5, it seems to me that you've got a lot of people coming. Because
you're not going to add on to these and do nothing with it. I don't think.
Ms. Egan - I don't think they all result in increases to population.
Board Member Conneman — Well, maybe Lynah Rink doesn't.
Chairperson Wilcox — Name, please.
Mr. Wendt - Bill Wendt.
Bill, I don't think you've spoken yet. Name, please.
Mr. Wendt - I've been trying to keep my mouth shut.
Chairperson Wilcox - OK, go ahead.
Mr. Wendt - George, you know Life sciences technology, I've been at many
presentations, and they're talking about ten new faculty. It's true faculty bring research
teams with them, and that might equate to a research team of ten people coming with
a faculty member, but they're not talking about 100 or more new faculty, that number
I've heard repeatedly
Board Member Conneman [inaudible]
Mr. Wendt - Right, 100 or more people, but not 100 faculty.
Board Member Conneman — And I've heard 150, is what I've really heard.
Mr. Wendt - And that's I think as good a number as I've heard, 150 in terms of total
population for life sciences technology. Something like Johnson Art Museum is not
envisioned to bring people. Lynah Rink, you've already mentioned, that's a special
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event type of thing. Bailey Hall renovation, that's an auditorium special event. Martha
Van Rensselaer North replacement, as I understand it, is a replacement for the building
that it there, it doesn't bring new population, the population is already there. I don't
know about the Plantations headquarter building or the physical sciences at this time or
the east campus research, but I believe all of them are smaller than what is occurring
at life sciences.
Board Member Conneman - The other question that I have that I was going to- get to in
a minute, is, does Cornell have a Master Plan? I mean, I've been on this board, this will
be starting my eighth year, we always talk about Master Plans, Cornell's always going to
have one, but we've never seen it. The question is, do they have a master plan that
goes beyond this, because these are identified things that are essentially in progress.
You're going to do nothing more than that over the next ten years.
Mr. Wendt - I do not believe Cornell has a Master Plan, "Master Plan ", and I'm not sure
exactly, they've talked. But Cornell. does have a capital plan, and a capital plan
designates what these new buildings are and that's where new programs take place,
and a capital plan is really the appropriate place to look at growth. A Master Plan, as I
understand it would talk about strategic opportunities for the institution. Whether that
be where things should be located, or academic programs that might be contemplated
for the future, but the capital plan that we've documented in here as the Cornell capital
plan is the document that will inform the public, and this board and us about growth
that will occur at the university over the next decade.
Board Member Conneman — So there are other structures, other programs on the list
already? See, we don't know about these things, that's my concern, we learn about
them one at a time, and of course there's always speculation as to what's coming up.
Mr. Wendt - [inaudible]
Board Member Hoffmann — And I can tell you that there are several things on that list
that don't mean a thing to me, like Millstein Hall, I've never even heard of it before, I
have no idea what it is.
Board Member Conneman — [inaudible]
Board Member Hoffmann — OK, well, I didn't know that. And the East Campus
Research Facility, I don't know what is meant by that, I don't know what is meant by
the physical sciences in this case. I haven't a clue.
Mr. Wendt - But you will when you see the [inaudible]
Chairperson Wilcox — Other comments had to do with section 5 -3, which is the
mitigation strategies relative to neighborhoods. My comments are no longer relevant,
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at least may not be relevant given the revisions, revision 8 that was provided tonight,
so I'm going to hold off on that. It was very unclear to me about mitigation strategies
will be... It read so poorly; I didn't understand it, but I think it's been clarified now with
revision 8 because it says, bear with me here, additional mitigation strategies will be
proposed. The addition of the word additional I think clarified my issue there. Bruce
and Doug had made the comment about mitigation strategies will be selected based on
their ability to facilitate commuter flow to Cornell, but I think I've heard enough that
you are interested in the neighborhoods, and it's more than simply mitigating impacts
on the commuters. I'm done. Larry, you want to go? I don't want to put you on the
spot, you want to go?
Board Member Thayer — You pretty much answered, or we talked about what I had in
I
y...
Chairperson Wilcox - OK. Rod?
Board Member Mitrano — No I said I'm done.
Chairperson Wilcox — Yeah, I thought you'd said that before.
Board Member Howe — I'm just curious what my colleagues feel about 3.1.4 where it
says that we'll analyze weekday worst -case traffic, but will not study weekend or
weekday, because we recognize often times it's families that move to an area, so that
there might be other traffic that gets generated by somebody being added as a Cornell
employee. So, I'm just curious, I don't know if I feel strongly, I'm just curious...
Board Member Conneman — Which section, Rod?
Board Member Howe — 3.1.4. The very first...
Board Member Hoffmann — Page 6 on the...
Chairperson Wilcox — When a developer comes before the board...
Board Member Howe — Let me just say that sometimes, when there is a special event at
Cornell, sometimes weekends can be just as bad as morning rush hour in certain
neighborhoods. I know when something is going on at Cornell, right away on the
weekend. So. I'm just curious if that.:.
Chairperson Wilcox The way I interpreted it originally is that when we have a project
come before us from a developer, we look at Peak traffic, in the morning or in the
evening, and they wanted to look at peak traffic as well, because that is really what you
want to understand and mitigate when a specific plan comes before us, and I think
that's what they were going for as well, and I will let you address that. But, Rod brings
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up the issue of special events traffic, and whether it's a horse show on Pine Tree Road
for example, or a football game, or a homecoming football game. They have different
impacts, but they can have significant impacts in their neighborhoods.
Board Member Mitrano — But isn't that what 3.1. — 3.1.4.5 ...?
Board Member Howe — Well, and certainly they talk about special events, I just was
curious if it rang, if it was an issue for anyone else.
Chairperson Wilcox — I, I...
Board Member Mitrano — It would be if I didn't see 3.1.4.5...
Mr. Alexiou - Just very briefly, because this did come up, what we're proposing to do
with special events, the University has management plans on how to deal with different
types of events and the quantity of people that are coming, but we understand, just
from some of the comments or hearsay that there are issues or concerns that I guess
these management plans haven't fully addressed. So, we want to review them with the
input that we get from the communities to understand what are the loose ends, how
could they be improved and refined, and that would be part of this analysis and
document.
Board Member Howe — This might be wordsmithing, but on page 11, I forget whose
version I saw this in, but for all the mitigation strategies, it always had the word
potential in front of improvements, so I don't know if that's important, because again .1
think it gets back to that who ultimately gets to look at what's being recommended.
Mr. Alexiou - I think the explanation for that is, as you go through the document,
nothing is proposed or recommended until the end, so whatever we're considering as a
strategy throughout this process, whether we're looking at impacts, or particularly as
we get to 5 and start thinking about mitigation, we don't want to give the impression in
this document that when it's mentioned that that's what's going to be proposed. That,
until it gets to that final list that everybody thinks that that's a good direction, that
that's the strategy that should go into a final package. Up until that point, it's just a
candidate, or a potential strategy, and that's all we're trying to relay here.
Board Member Mitrano — In which case, I would go along with Rod and say back to
your very first sentence, on page 1, that you figure out exactly what word you want to
use there, possible, potential or whatever, and then you use it consistently throughout
so that it is clear that you're not promising anything, and if it were up to me, I'd use
potential rather than possible...
Chairperson Wilcox — Rod, does that sit well?
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Board Member Howe — yes.
Chairperson Wilcox — OK.
Board Member Howe — And then I think my last was on page 14, Roman numeral XII,
we've talked about actually a lot of these, but we haven't really talked about... I guess I
want more explanation on why the traffic counts for the last 30 years have been
determined not to be relevant, and the hypothetical growth and building growth square
footage, there's this long list of things that were just determined not to be relevant.
Mr. Alexiou - And I saw that comment, and I think the intention there was by looking at
30 years of information relating to Cornell growth, any kind of information, whether its
square footage, number of students, number of employees, etcetera, so that's the kind
of traffic generating characteristics of the institution, and then looking at the traffic on
the streets for the last 30 years, that we would be able to develop some kind of
equation, some kind of correlation or relationship, that then we could use and say now
we have a tool for forecasting... you tell me how many square feet, or how many
people or combination of those and I'll tell you how much traffic is going to be
produced, because we have this historic relationship from 30 years. All I can say is, in
my close to 30 years unfortunately experience, is that it's a very lofty goal it just never
works like that in reality because Cornell's one institution in a dynamic community
where there's lots of other influences and contributors to traffic on the street, and to try
and pick out cleanly what is a Cornell traffic contribution and relate that to Cornell
growth, you just get a mess of data without any clear direction and all I can say is that
whenever we have tried to do that and the way that it was proposed here was very
comprehensive, it was a sort of a good theoretical approach. Its just never worked and
we've gotten ourselves in a mess and we could have come up and regrouped and said
what is a simple, clean, easy to explain way...the other issue is as you go into the
future, the dynamics, the relationships between households and people and square
footage and traffic changes a lot. That relates to the issue of when you look at ... one
thing that I have learned by going to lots of campuses, the way that campuses use floor
space and buildings has. changed dramatically. It is not often because they need a few
extra square feet of space to fit people in, it's just the nature of the business.
Particularly the research business that requires totally different facilities. In some cases
you can't retrofit a building. You really have to recycle that building for something else
or demolish it in some cases, but you just need new facilities if you want to compete for
grants, for state of the art research.
Board Member Conneman — While you are on that, comment number 10, Kathryn,
about building square footage is not well correlated, population growth or traffic
growth. Do you have evidence of that and what is correlated to population and traffic
growth? Maybe George could answer that because it is the same kind of question, I
think.
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Ms. Wolf — For starters, building square footage is not correlated to population growth
because certain buildings are intensively populated whereas warehouses, to use an
extreme example, a warehouse you could have a lot of square feet and one person.
So..:
Board Member Conneman - (not audible) ... campus. That is George's expertise.
Mr. Alexiou — For example, for a shopping center or a residential subdivision there has
been enough surveys undertaken around the country to look at their ... there was 5,000
square feet of shopping in this and someone went out, maybe it was a requirement of
some local planning body, and they went out and did a survey and they counted the
traffic that came in and out of that particular facility and we collected enough of that
information as a professional body and we put it into these thick books, these traffic
generation handbooks that we can go there and look up so many square feet of this
type of use. We have collected enough data to come up with a statistically valid
relationship. We have not done that for universities. I think in the 20, 30 years, we
have data for about three universities around the country. When you think, there are
some universities that are in dense urban areas, some in rural areas, some deal with
medical. We just don't have that kind of information to be able to go to a textbook and
say you have so many square feet of a typical university and therefore we can tell you
how much traffic will be generated.
Board Member Howe — I'm all set for now.
Chairperson Wilcox — Kevin?
Board Member Talty — I'm good right now. I'll pass my time to Eva.
Board Member Hoffmann — I had a comment that ... with what Rod said since we are
going just every which way. In the very first paragraph on page 3, description of
proposed action. You were talking about the word potential, but at the very end of that
first paragraph it says that TIMS may include recommendations for transportation
demand management, multimodal transportation strategies, including pedestrian,
bicycle, transit and parking, safety access and circulation modifications such as traffic
calming, zoning changes and other possible measures. And that word may there is a
little bit like the word potential and I don't understand why .it couldn't be more definite
because it sounds from all the ... what you have been telling us as if this is what you are
going to do.
Ms. Wolf — I think the intention is to provide examples.
Board Member Hoffmann — Pardon?
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Ms. Wolf — I think the intention here is....we don't know what ... it is providing examples.
We don't know what the exact mix or set of recommendations will be and so we are
providing examples and that is why the word may, but maybe there is a better way to
say it. It doesn't mean to be hedging; it's just, for example.
Board Member Hoffmann — Maybe that would be a better way of saying it because it
makes me, anyway, feel more confident that there are going .to be recommendations.
Ms. Wolf — So maybe TIMS will include recommendations...
Board Member Howe — Ranging from... .
Ms. Wolf — Such as...
Board Member Mitrano — Well, you already have one such as so you need to figure out
what is going on.
Chairperson Wilcox — We are getting near the appointed hour and we try not to go past
10 p.m., though we will spend a couple of minutes after 10.
Board Member Talty — Fred, where do we go from here? I guess is my question.
Chairperson Wilcox — And that is...
Board Member Hoffmann — I have more things that I want to talk about, too.
Chairperson Wilcox — Oh, I'm sure that you do. I think the first thing we need to do
is ... are you going to make some additional comments?
Board Member Talty — Myself? Not tonight.
Chairperson Wilcox — Possibly the next week?
Board Member Talty — Possibly.
Chairperson Wilcox — Would you prefer another draft incorporating ... would you like
another draft, which starts with January 11th and incorporates the changes, dated the
17th and then incorporates some of the changes that have been suggested tonight?
Board Member Talty — I would recommend cleaning it up.
Chairperson Wilcox — Okay and so would George. So I have two out of three.
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Board Member Hoffmann — I would prefer that, too, but I would prefer it if it came so
that we had a chance to read it before we come to the meeting.
Chairperson Wilcox — It arrived in my mailbox Thursday.
Board Member Hoffmann — I mean that we just got something tonight, which is hard to
incorporate.
Chairperson Wilcox — I agree.
Board Member Connemara — You should produce for us a document that you think is the
final one with all these suggestions.
Chairperson Wilcox — I wouldn't be surprised if we get a couple more changes coming
out of either our discussion, Eva's specific things, but I am hoping that and your
comments that you may offer at the next meeting, but I am hoping...
Board Member Mitrano — And we will pretend it is a marriage and we won't argue about
things about what we meant when we said back in November.
Chairperson Wilcox — Those changes are mostly wordsmithing changes at the next
meeting that I think we might be able to have and accept the adoption.
Board Member Talty — Additional copies for the public, like it indicated the first time. I
see a lot of nodding going on out there. I've go to think that that is a good thing, Fred.
Chairperson Wilcox — It is clearly a good thing not to have updates on the day of the
meeting, number one and number two, I believe ... was the January lit" version
available on the website?
Ms. Wolf — Yes.
Chairperson Wilcox — I forget the website, so I go to the Town of Ithaca website and
there is a link right...
Ms. Wolf — Sorry. I was thinking November 15t ". January 11t" was not.
Chairperson Wilcox — That would have been a good idea, as I am sure you know, to get
that up there because we had it in our mailout that I think arrived on Thursday. Having
said that, a little bit about process. It is interesting that this sort of environmental
review requires public participation, but doesn't require public hearing. So we have
done the public participation has gone on. We have done two public hearings. We are
going to get written comments no matter what and I appreciate them, but it is time for
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us to provide our comments back and see if we can agree on something that we are all
comfortable with and is satisfactory to us and the residents and the neighborhoods.
Board Member Talty — I agree with that, Fred, but there is such a collage of information
and so many changes. I don't think it is outside the realm right now to provide one last
finalization that is open to the public so that they have a chance to read.. I think we got
a lot of things nailed down in the last couple meetings and I would be highly surprised
if there was a multitude of changes in it.
Board Member Howe - I just want to get a sense of how many, some folks, like Eva, I
mean do you have a lot of really nitty gritty stuff?
Board Member Talty — Now
Ms. Wolf — And is it wordsmithing more or are there real substantive things? That
might be good to get a feel for it.
Board Member Hoffmann — That is in the eye of the beholder, perhaps, but no it's not
so much wordsmithing. That's not true. No there are just a lot of questions about
what some of. the things mean and you know, some practical suggestions like for
instance when I first read this, I didn't know what some of these abbreviations stood
for, like ITCTC. I know now, but I didn't know it when I first read it and I would have
liked, for instance, all of these abbreviations to have been spelled out once.
Board Member Howe — But that is easy.
substantial...
Chairperson Wilcox — That's right.
Board Member Howe — For them to go do this...
I guess I am concerned if Eva has
Board Member Hoffmann — But this is the kind of thing if you are putting this out for
the public to read, you have to make it readable and understandable.
Chairperson Wilcox — Okay. That's done.
Board Member Talty — What's done? What is going to be done? Where are we going
from here I guess my question is.
Chairperson Wilcox — Go ahead, George.
Board Member Conneman — The only thing I wanted to say was that I would like Susan
to produce for us ... out in the world there are people who say well what this means
when we get done with this is whatever Cornell recommends we have to believe and
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we will therefore and it will therefore cut us out of the planning process. They won't
have to produce a SEQR for every project that they have and so on and so forth. You
can call that conspiracy theory, anything you want, but it is real because people talk
about it and it seems to me that somehow we have to know what does this really
mean.
Board Member Mitrano — I think it would be helpful to us, don't you, if we had a
document from the Town Attorney on what this means for the future. What scope it
covers and what scope it doesn't cover in terms of future applications. That would be
very helpful
Chairperson Wilcox — Alright. So there are two issues. One is create another draft
based upon January 11th, the revisions handed out tonight and input that you have
received.
Board Member Talty — It would be nice to put it on the website, if at all possible.
Chairperson Wilcox — That would, of course, be nice. I agree.
Board Member Hoffmann — I need a printed out copy because I can't get it on the
website.. I have trouble with my computer. I haven't been able to access the website.
Board Member Mitrano - I think that was meant for the public, but we are still going to
get our hard copy, right?
Board Member Talty — That's right.
Chairperson Wilcox — The second, separate issue is from the legal side what does this
imply going forward because we have seen such things as Cornell won't have to do
environmental reviews or we'll be asked to approve generic projects or things like that.
We have seen it either said or written and maybe it would be appropriate to address
those concerns.
Board Member Conneman I get the website, but I think you ought to offer a hard
copy to anybody in the audience who wants it.
Ms. Wolf — We brought a whole stack today. We do every time.
Chairperson Wilcox — Rather than this wonderful set of mitigation strategies that are
available given the project that comes before us and given the environmental review
that is done. Okay.
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Ms. Wolf — Since you are hoping to have what you are calling a final that incorporates
all these revisions, but Eva has a whole list of things that we don't know what they are,
would it be possible to get a written list of Eva's comments and questions?
Board Member Hoffmann — I would like to discuss them with other board members. I
don't want them to come in a vacuum to you. I'd like other people to hear them so
they can add comments if they have them.
Board Member Mitrano — I found the one that you just made about abbreviations that
you just had very helpful. Are there some very distinct things like that that you could
let them know?
Ms. Wolf — Or we could do really easily.
Board Member Hoffmann — It depends on how long you want to stay.
Board Member Mitrano — Well, I'll stay a few minutes, but if we are going to get into
the depth again, we'll wait till next time.
Chairperson Wilcox — Or just put an appendix at the end of abbreviations spelled out.
Board Member Hoffmann - Well, I can give you just a few examples, but I have some
substantive comments that I feel will need discussion among all of us, too, that I think
we will have to do another time. But for instance, one other thing that I would have
liked to have already is copy of studies that are mentioned here. Traffic studies. There
was apparently a study done among Cornell employees about their commuting habits.
I can't remember what it was called now, but it was mentioned in some of the papers.
I would have liked to see that study and there were some other studies, too, that were
mentioned and I don't know why we don't have...
Chairperson Wilcox — Eva, why do you want to see those studies?
Board Member Hoffmann — Because I think there might be interesting information in
there that would apply to what we are trying to study. Why would it be done
otherwise?
Chairperson Wilcox — This is the scoping document.
Board Member Hoffmann — Yes, but when you think about the scoping you are
supposed to think about everything ahead of time. You are supposed to think ahead of
time about everything that would apply and the more information you have, the more
you can think of, the more you can anticipate. You can't anticipate things out of a
vacuum.
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Chairperson Wilcox — That would be unfair of me to ask what might we gain from
having those studies before us. New ideas? New things to study? New mitigation?
Board Member Hoffmann — There might be information about the existing situation of
how people commute now.
Chairperson Wilcox — But isn't that part of what they then are going to do once they get
the okay to move ahead? I'm still confused.
Board Member Hoffmann - Right, but it might still help us come up with questions or
suggestions for what should be included in the scope. I'm guessing. I'm not saying that
is necessarily true. I'm just guessing that so I thought that would have been a useful
thing to have.
Board Member Thayer — Speaking of the traffic studies, in section 5 there is a lot of
mention about park and ride, but very little mention about traffic studies of how many
people come out of Trumansburg, how many come out of Newfield. Could we put a
park and ride there?
Ms. Wolf — We will be looking at all that.
exactly what we are going to look at.
That is the purpose of the study. That is
Board Member Conneman - And you do know where people come from who work at
Cornell.
Ms. Wolf — Yes.
Chairperson Wilcox — You have that for employees, right?
Mr. Wendt — And students.
Chairperson Wilcox — Employees mean faculty and staff?
Mr. Wendt — Yes.
Board Member Hoffmann — And as far as the park and ride, there is some mention of
existing park and ride lots, but I don't know where they are. I would be interested to
know where they are. I think that might be useful to know.
Ms. Wolf — That will all be documented.
Chairperson Wilcox — That is what...
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Board Member Hoffmann - Yes, but I am feeling that some of this might be interesting
to know ahead of time for us.
Ms. Brock — Since they are going to be providing all that information in the DEIS and I
assume a lot of these studies will actually be attached as appendices, that then informs
Cornell as they prepare the DEIS as to what they need to look at in terms of impacts
among other things and flowing from that then come the mitigation strategies. That
doesn't happen only on their end and you have no say once you are done with the
scope. Under the SEQR regulations; the Planning Board is charged with responsibility
before the DEIS can be released for public comment to make a determination that the
DEIS is adequate as to scope and content. So when you review their draft, you are
going to see that information.
Board Member Hoffmann — The draft of the DEIS?
.Ms. Brock — Yes, before it is released for public comment you get it first and you do not
release it to the public until you make your affirmative finding or determination that it is
adequate as to scope and content and at that point, you may say well you've now
including these studies and we see in here this information and that shows us that
these impacts should have been looked at more carefully or looked at in a little bit
different way. So you do get to incorporate that information in your further
determination as to whether the DEIS is ready to be released.
Board Member Hoffmann — I see. So one can extend this point of scoping at that point.
Ms. Brock — Well, no, the scoping is here. But they have said that they are going to
look at the existing information. I think it is flexible enough. They themselves do not
even know everything that is going to show up in the DEIS yet because they are going
to poll all the residents and look for information that they identify, for example. So I
think the wording is flexible enough that you will have some ability to say you need to
look more at x y and z. Its not when they are done with this they go off and do
whatever they want and you don't have any say and the same thing happens again at
the end with the final EIS too. You actually have to make a finding or a
determination ... well, the regulations say that you are responsible for the adequacy and
accuracy of the FEIS regardless of who prepares it. So again you are going to be
looking at is it adequate and is it accurate. So you get to weigh in again. You are not
going to get to blindly expand the scope, but to the extent the scope is flexible and you
are working within that framework with the information that they say they are working
with, too, I think you will be okay.
Board Member Hoffmann — Because I am concerned that if there are things we leave
out of the scope that we can't go back and address them.
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Ms. Brock — Well, if there is something really important that is left out of the scope, I
think that you would ask Cornell to include it and maybe it is something that is either
done or a supplement or they just include it now. I mean if it is something so
important that it is really going to affect what the TIMS will look like then I think it is in
everybody's interest that it is included.
Board Member Hoffmann — I have comments on so many papers here. Let me just
take them and not necessarily in order of importance for a little while and we'll see
where we get. From the very beginning there is talk about travel to Cornell, but I
assume you mean travel to and from Cornell because...
Ms. Wolf — Correct.
Board Member Hoffmann — Because you are talking about...
Chairperson Wilcox — And she said yes..
Board Member Hoffmann - study...
Chairperson Wilcox — I'm sorry, but she said yes.
Board Member Hoffmann — Right. Well would you include that in the papers then,
please? On page 5 of the January 11th scope, you are talking about the pedestrian
stakeholders and the bicycle stakeholders. Who are they?
Ms. Wolf — Well, they are largely identified; well they would be anyone who is
interested in pedestrian and bicycle issues. We have identified all of the known groups
that we know of on that extensive stakeholder list that I think you saw. All of whom
were notified before the public hearings. So those known groups would be invited to
an informational meeting as well as there would be other more generic ways of
reaching out like ads in the paper, but the stakeholders as we know them are all of the
known groups listed on the stakeholder group list.
Board Member Hoffmann — I know of some bike groups, but I can't think of any
pedestrian groups and I don't want to dig it out right now. Do you remember?
Ms. Wolf — The City of Ithaca is actually called the Bike and Ped group, I don't have my
list in front of me either. There are a couple that are identified as pedestrians and I
think also that a lot of the residents of the neighborhoods, quite frankly, are
stakeholders. They want to walk and bike in their neighborhoods.
Board. Member Hoffmann — I would think of them as such, but I don't know if they. are
organized as a group and if that is what you mean.
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Chairperson Wilcox — Alright. If I may, this is from your stakeholder list dated
December 1, City of Ithaca Pedestrian Committee, City Pedestrian Bicycle and Motorist
Safety Committee, I'm looking for pedestrian specific and those, quick scan down here.
Those are the two that I find that are specific to pedestrians. Others might be
tangentially.
Ms: Wolf — Its probably primarily residents.
Board, Member Hoffmann — It seems pedestrians is a more universal group than the
bicyclists maybe. And you mentioned, for both of these groups that there will be web
based survey conducted. So who will get the survey?
Ms. Wolf — The survey has not been designed. The details of that have not been
worked out, but the commuter survey that was done, for example, of Cornell
employees, they have a system set up where they were able to do this mass
distribution to everyone in their system. So certainly Cornell students would be
included in the survey. So and again we haven't designed the method, but we have
thought that there would be a way to do a mass distribution at Cornell and then have a
way of inviting the public to log on to participate. But we wouldn't be able to distribute
to them at home because they are not part of the system. So some combination of
that.
Board Member Hoffmann — I did mention that I was interested in knowing where the
existing park and ride lots are. Is that something you can share with us?
Mr. Wendt — The existing park and ride lots that are in countywide system are on the
TCAT transit map and they are on the TCAT website.
Board Member Hoffmann — On page 6 of 14, you talk about a description, it is point e
at the top of the page, a description of existing paratransit service. What do you mean
by paratransit service?
Ms. Wolf - Paratransit is Gadabout.
Board Member Hoffmann — That's the only thing?
Mr. Wendt — There is also paratransit that operates on the Cornell campus through our
Red Runner service. That is the ability to carry handicap individuals or wheelchair
accessible vehicles. TCAT may also. operate some paratransit vans in addition to
Gadabout.
Board Member Hoffmann — Okay. Does Gadabout actually operate on campus and
serve campus? The Cornell community? I I
.
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Mr. Wendt — Gadabout serves the Cornell community, especially those who live in the
community. Gadabout does not bring students from class to class. The Cornell system
moves students from class to class, but it may bring residents of the community who
may be either faculty, staff or students to Cornell as a place of employment or study.
Board Member Hoffmann — We talked a little bit about visitors and how traffic and
events and I was thinking of events at the tennis center and equestrian facility as being
some that have created problems that I have heard of , though I haven't seen it myself.
I must have been out of town when it happened, but people have said that there has
been a lot of traffic parked all along Pine Tree Road when there have been events
there, but you said you were going to look into that I think, how events can affect
traffic and parking in neighborhoods. At the bottom of the same page, off campus off
street parking, I'm quite concerned about the East Hill Plaza lot and other similar
parking lots that serve Cornell buildings, especially up in that area near East Hill Plaza
that they are being used for parking in a way that they shouldn't be. I certainly want to
be sure that they are not in practice used as park and ride lots.
Mr. Wendt - Well, I can respond about the East Hill Plaza lot. That is a lot that the
management company consistently sends notices to people who are spotted getting on
the bus at East Hill Plaza who are not employees at East Hill Plaza. It is a problem we
encounter particularly every fall when new people come to the community and find that
as an attractive place. We spent a considerable amount of time this fall cleaning that.
up and I imagine that we will do the same next August and September. I agree with
you that it is a problem that we don't tolerate and we do our best to clean that up.
Board Member Hoffmann — There are some, on page 8 of 14, you mention some of the
residential areas and I had brought up on the November 15t" meeting that there were
some neighborhoods that I felt were missing. You have now reworded this in such a
way that you mention some and then you say this listing is not intended to exclude
other residential areas, but I still feel that I would like to see some changes here. For
instance, the areas that are right adjacent to this boundary that you have drawn out for
what you call main campus, I mentioned the area right near where I live on the
southern edge of it. You have listed Snyder Hill right here and I think it should say
Snyder Hill Road neighborhood because Snyder Hill is a hill that is way out further east
and it is not terribly populated. It is Snyder Hill Road, which has the residential area.
Eastern Heights is a neighborhood there off Snyder Hill Road that I think should be
included. The Slaterville Road /State Street residential area should be included and then
there are...
Chairperson Wilcox - Wait a minute...
Board Member Hoffmann — Can I finish?
Chairperson Wilcox — Yeah.
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Board Member Hoffmann — Thank you. And then there is the area north of this area
that you have outlined where you don't mention any of the roads and I think if you
don't mention them they are not likely to be as carefully studied maybe and if you
mention some of the others like Belle Sherman, Bryant Park and so on, you should also
mention the Hanshaw Road and Warren Road areas because those are roads through
which traffic goes to Cornell. Those are neighborhoods.
Mr. Alexiou Can I just make a comment on that because perhaps it is not clear?
There are neighborhoods that tend to be closer to the campus and then there are
corridors that just string out from the campus. On page 6, it is 3.1.4.1, we are going to
look at and describe and analyze these roadways that go out some distance, as far as
we need to go until the traffic peters out. So we will be looking at roads that go
beyond the neighborhoods. The neighborhoods, the section on neighborhoods is really
to look at the communities that are more directly affected because of their proximity to
the campus.
Board Member Hoffmann — But that is what I am telling you. On your map, which is
called figure 1, there is an outline of an area that you call main campus and how can
you get more proximate to that area than Snyder Hill Road, Hanshaw Road, Warren
Road?
Mr. Alexiou —Those roads will be looked.
Board Member Hoffmann — But they are not listed as neighborhoods and that makes a
difference to me. If you are listing Ellis Hollow and Varna, why not list these roads?
These residential areas along these roads. They don't have a name, but they should be
included as residential areas to be looked at.
Board Member Mitrano — Are all of those residential areas as much impacted as say
Forest Home is where the neighborhood is there. So there are many arteries through
which people are going or is there just one road sort of cutting through the
neighborhood that really is where all of the traffic is occurring? Say Hanshaw Road, but
would you need to know what is going on, on all the cigarette lanes and things like
that? It's really Hanshaw Road.
Board Member Hoffmann — It is Hanshaw Road that I am talking about and Warren
Road, which get a lot of traffic.
Chairperson Wilcox — But again, you are talking roads, not neighborhoods. When you
said State Street /Slaterville Road, I'm going wait a minute, where is the neighborhood?
Board Member Hoffmann — That is a neighborhood.
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Chairperson Wilcox — Where does it start?
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Planning Board Minutes
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At the city line? Where does it end? In
Board Member Hoffmann — Well it probably starts at the neighborhood called Belle
Sherman. It is the part beyond that, which has a lot of the traffic that comes in to
Cornell.
Chairperson Wilcox — But isn't that a traffic corridor? Belle Sherman is a neighborhood.
Bryant Park is the neighborhood. You mentioned Eastern Heights. I'll take that as a
neighborhood, but I think of it as a subdivision, but I'll take it as a neighborhood. But
when we start listing Honness Lanes, Snyder Hill Road. These are roads. They are not
neighborhoods.
Board Member Hoffmann — Well I think a lot of the people who live on those roads
would be very hurt if they heard you say that.
Chairperson Wilcox — I'm not saying that they are not impacted by traffic.
Board Member Hoffmann — And I also think it is true that Forest Home is a
neighborhood. It has a name, but it is the people who live right along the different
roads that go through Forest ' Home that have the impact of the traffic and that is
exactly the same situation on the other roads.
Chairperson Wilcox — That's right, which is why they are going to study traffic corridors.
Board Member Hoffmann — Yes, but I still think...
Board Member Talty It is semantics, Fred. It's the difference between arterie$ and
capillaries. I live in the northeast and I deal with all of the traffic all the time on Warren
and Triphammer, but yet the traffic isn't cutting through my neighborhood.
Board Member Hoffmann — Right, but those people who live on Warren Road have the
traffic cutting through their neighborhood.
Board Member Thayer — That is a corridor.
Chairperson Wilcox — That is a traffic corridor. It is not a neighborhood.
Board Member Talty There is a difference. There is definitely a difference become
Forest Home; there are .numerous ways to cut through Forest Home. Numerous that
are used all the time.
Board Member Hoffmann — Well, then it is a question of semantics. It is because Forest
Home happens to have a name.
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Chairperson Wilcox — Well, Varna has a name.
Board Member Hoffmann — And Bryant. Park happens to have a name. I still think that
you cannot just discount the people who happen to live on the roads that are through
roads.
Chairperson Wilcox — We're not.
Board Member Talty - There is an open -ended statement here.
Many board members talking at once.
Chairperson Wilcox — I don't think you heard the response that they will be studied
under the corridor section, not the neighborhood section.
Ms. Egan — And under the neighborhoods where appropriate. Eva, we were very
concerned. Here you will notice our language, on 3.2.2; we said the following
residential neighborhoods were identified during scoping. So we listed everything that
was then raised during scoping, but we realized that this could not possibly be
everything. So we were at some pains to say that this listing was not intended to
exclude any other residential areas and that we were going to be reaching out and
inviting everybody. I think it would be a real trap to try to come up with an exhaustive
list.
Board Member Hoffmann — And I am not asking for that. I am asking for a list that
includes the neighborhoods that are right adjacent to this line that you have drawn that
you call main campus.
Ms. Egan — They are not excluded.
Board Member Hoffmann — Right, but why list some of them that are there and not
others. That I don't understand.
Ms. Egan — We listed the ones that came up in scoping. We said that that is why they
were because they come up in scoping, but where it pains to say that we would be
doing all of them.
Board Member Hoffmann — What did you say?
Ms. Egan — We were at pains to be saying that this was not to exclude any other
residential areas from participation.
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Board Member Hoffmann — Right and there are residential areas in other parts of the
City and Town and other communities that have had people coming in here saying that,
they don't want to be excluded.
Chairperson Wilcox — They are not.
Board Member Hoffmann — They are not and I understand that they are included in this
second paragraph. because you don't want to list them all, but I still feel very strongly
that you need to include the ones that are right adjacent to this area where the
expansion is going to happen because that is where the main impact is going to be.
Board Member Mitrano — How about if you take out all of the specifics and say that this
document will explore:..
Chairperson Wilcox — I think there is a reason to leave the neighborhood names in. I
think it is just good policy to leave them in. Now, is anybody with Eva on this one?
Board Member Talty — No.
Chairperson Wilcox — No. Move on, please. I'm sorry. I don't mean to be the bad guy,
but that is my job.
Board Member Conneman — (not audible) ... I think Kathryn understands.
Inaudible talking.
Board Member Hoffmann - ...I'm sure I have other things in another paper here
because I wrote notes. I guess I already have gotten the answer as to whether we can
see the ... no this is another survey. The ITCTC commuter data. That is not the one
done by Cornell, is it, but I guess we are not going to see them. I had some additional
intersections on the table that I would like to propose including, which are not on the
list. Hanshaw Road at Sapsucker Road, Hanshaw Road and Freese Road, Hanshaw
Road at the junction where Hanshaw Road takes a. sharp right hand turn. I meant to
look at the name of the road, but I can't remember. Hanshaw Road goes east and then
it takes a sharp right angle-turn over to Route 13 and the road that continues straight
there is the one that I am looking for.
Chairperson Wilcox — I would point out that the document says that intersections along
the corridor that are similar in nature will be.
Board Member Hoffmann — Will be determined. Shall I continue?
Chairperson Wilcox — Absolutely.
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Board Member Hoffmann — Thank you. Ellis Hollow and Game Farm Road, Ellis Hollow
and Quarry Road, Ellis Hollow and Turkey Hill Road. There maybe others on Ellis
Hollow,Road, but those are the ones that I felt were most important and because they
are closer to the campus area so there is going to be more traffic on them. On figure
2, you have all of the intersections to be evaluated according to the criteria and you
have symbols for signalized all -way stops and then you have something else for other
control. What are these other controls?
Mr. Alexiou — I think another control may be a give way sign. That would typically be
the other control.
Chairperson Wilcox - A give way sign?
Mr. Alexiou — A yield sign. It could be a two -way stop.
Board Member Hoffmann - The list is too much to do now.
Board Member Talty — I'm good, Fred.
Chairperson Wilcox —. We got through a lot. Eva will have some more, potentially.
Board Member Hoffmann — Yes. Definitely.
Chairperson Wilcox — George still could have some more. Any one of us could still have
some additional comments to bring up.
Ms. Wolf — I guess we would like to ask again, is it possible to get Eva's ... I mean a lot
of the questions we see them and we know the answer very quickly and if we can
incorporate it we would and if not, we would just leave it to be discussed.
Board Member Hoffmann — Well, as I said, I think it should be discussed as a board.
Board Member Mitrano — I think maybe all Kathy is asking is maybe if you could send
them in advance what the categories of questions or what the specific ones are. You
could still ask them that night, but then they would know ... (not audible).
Ms. Wolf — I'm not suggesting that we don't discuss them next time at all.
Board Member Hoffmann — I will see if I have time to do that.
Ms. Wolf — Another question. So when we give you this latest copy, should we give it
with the underlined only or should we show only tonight's changes underlined or no
underline? Do you have a preference?
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Planning Board Minutes
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Approved
Board Member Mitrano — My preference is absolutely clean. Brand new.
Board Member Talty — Clean. No deviations. No underlines.. No scratches. No
nothing.
Ms. Wolf - Got it. Glad I asked.
Board Member Hoffmann.— Well, I think it is useful to have both, actually.
Laughing.
Chairperson Wilcox — God, bless her. Anything else you need at this late hour?
Mr. Kanter— May I ask a question?
Chairperson Wilcox — Yes, sir.
Mr. Kanter — I guess we had asked Cornell to just confirm that we are now past the 60
day...
Mr. Wendt — I sent you a letter.
Mr. Kanter — I don't think a saw it. Can we get a verbal confirmation for the minutes?
Mr. Wendt — Yes.
Chairperson Wilcox — Thank you all, ladies and gentlemen.
AGENDA ITEM
Nomination of Vice Chair for 2006
Board deferred nomination until the February 7, 2006 Planning Board meeting.
AGENDA ITEM
Approval of Minutes — January 3, 2006
PS RESOLUTION NO. 2006-013; Approval of Minutes: January 3, 2006
MOTION by Chairperson Wilcox, seconded by Board Member Thayer.
RESOLVED, that the Planning Board does hereby approve and adopts the January 3,
2006 minutes as the official minutes of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board for the said
meeting as presented with corrections
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The vote on the motion resulted as follows:
AYES .• Wilcox, Hoffmann, Conneman, Mitrano, Thayer, Howe, Talty.
NA YS: None.
ABSTAIN: None.
The vote on the motion was carried unanimously.
OTHER BUSINESS
Mr. Kanter gave the board an overview of the February 7, 2006 agenda.
The board discussed giving the public another opportunity to comment on the scope
and determined that there would not be another opportunity for the public to comment
on the scope.
ADJOURNMENT
Chairperson Wilcox adjourns the January 17, . 2006 Planning Board meeting at 10:41
p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
rrie Coates Whitm
Deputy Town Clerk
TOWN OF IT14ACA PLANNING BOARD
215 North Tioga Street
Ithaca, New York 14850
Tuesday, January 17, 2006
AGENDA
7:00 P.M: Persons to be heard (no more than five minutes).
7:05 P.M. SEQR Determination: La Tourelle Room Expansion & Spa Addition Modifications, 1150 Danby Road.
7:05 P.M. PUBLIC HEARING: Consideration of Site Plan Modifications to the previously approved plan for the
spa and room addition project at the La Tourelle Country Inn located at 1150 Danby Road (NYS Route
96B), Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 36- 1 -4.2, Planned Development Zone No. 1. The.proposal involves
changes to the proposed stormwater facilities, to the number and location of some of the parking, and
modifications to the arrangement of the landscaping and lighting. Walter J. Wiggins, Owner /Applicant.
7:15 P.M. SEQR Determination: Three Rivers Mini Golf & Creamery, 869 Elmira Road,
7:15 P.M. PUBLIC HEARING:. Consideration of Preliminary Site Plan Approval and Special Permit for the
proposed Three Rivers Mini Golf & Creamery located at 869 Elmira Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel
No. 35 -1 -10.2, Low Density Residential Zone. The proposal includes the construction of a 18 hole
miniature golf course, a 29 space parking lot and entrance drive, a small building for ice cream sales and
storage, a gazebo, lighting, and stormwater facilities. Bonnie and James Warren, Owners /Applicants;
Robert M. Drew, Project Engineer, Hunt Engineers, Architects & Land Surveyors, P.C., Agent,
7:40 P.M. Consideration of acceptance of the Draft Scope document (dated November 15, 2005, revised January 11,
2006) as the Final Scope document for the proposed Ten -year Transportation Impact Mitigation
Strategies (TIMS) and the associated transportation- focused Generic Environmental Impact Statement (t-
GEIS) being jointly undertaken by Cornell University and the Town of Ithaca. Kathryn Wolf, RLA,
Principal -in- Charge.
7.
2
10,
11.
Consideration of Nomination and Election of Vice Chairperson of the Planning Board for 2006.
Persons to be heard (continued from beginning of meeting if necessary)
Approval of Minutes: January 3, 2006.
Other Business:
Adjournment.
Jonathan Kanter, AICP
Director of Planning
273 -1747
NOTE: IF ANY MEMBER OF THE PLANNING BOARD IS UNABLE TO ATTEND, PLEASE NOTIFY
SANDY POLCE AT 273 -17470
(A quorum of four (4) members is necessary to conduct Planning Board business.)
TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD
NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARINGS
Tuesday, January 17, 2006
By direction of the Chairperson of the Planning Board, NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that Public Hearings will be
held by the -Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca on Tuesday, January 17, 2006, at 215 North Tioga Street, Ithaca,
N.Y., at the following . times and on the following matters:
7:05 P.M. Consideration of Site Plan Modifications to the
addition project at the La Tourelle Country Inn
Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 36- 1 -4.2, Planned
changes to the proposed stormwater facilities, to
and modifications to the arrangement of the
Owner /Applicant.
previously approved plan for the spa and room
located at 1150 Danby Road (NYS Route 96B),
Development Zone No. 1. The proposal involves
the number and location of some of the parking,
landscaping and lighting. Walter J. Wiggins,
7:15 P.M. Consideration of Preliminary Site Plan Approval and Special Permit for the proposed Three Rivers
Mini Golf &'Creamery located at 869 Elmira Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 35 -1 -10.2, Low
Density Residential Zone. The proposal includes the construction of a 18 hole miniature golf
course, a 29 space parking lot and entrance drive, a small building for ice cream sales and storage,
a gazebo, lighting, and stormwater facilities. Bonnie and James Warren, Owners /Applicants;
Robert M. Drew, Project Engineer, Hunt Engineers, Architects & Land Surveyors, P.C., Agent.
Said Planning Board will at said times and said place hear all persons in support of such matters or objections thereto.
Persons may appear by agent or in person. Individuals with visual impairments, hearing impairments or other special
needs, will be provided with assistance as necessary, upon request. Persons desiring assistance must make such a
request not less than 48 hours prior to the time of the public hearings.
Jonathan Kanter, AICP
Director of Planning
273 -1747
Dated: Monday, January 9, 2006
Publish: Wednesday, January 11, 2006
TOWN OF ITHACA
PLANNING BOARD
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PLANNING BOARD
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Ithaca, Tompkins County, New York; that the following Notice has been duly posted on the sign
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