HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB Minutes 2005-10-04PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
REGULAR MEETING FILE
TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD
TUESDAY, OCTOBER 4, 2005
DATE 9 2 �'
215 NORTH TIOGA STREET, ITHACA NY 14850
The Town of Ithaca Planning Board met in regular session on Tuesday, October 4,
2005, in Town Hall, 215 North Tioga Street, Ithaca, New York, at 7:00 p.m.
PRESENT
Fred Wilcox, Chairperson; Eva Hoffmann, Board Member; George Conneman, Board
Member; Tracy Mitrano, Board Members Larry Thayer, Board Member; Rod Howe,
Board Member, Jonathan Kanter, Director of Planning; Daniel Walker, Director of
Engineering; John Barney, Attorney for the Town.
EXCUSED
Kevin Talty, Board Members Susan Ritter, Assistant Director of Planning; Michael Smith,
Environmental Planners Christine Balestra, Planner.
OTHERS
Bill Paladino, Ellicott Developments Hollis Erb, 118 Snyder Hill Rd; Maria Andrews, 95
Brown Rd; John Murray, 95 Brown Rd; Trevor Levine, 711 E Seneca St;. Steve Beyers,
1328 Slaterville Rd; Megan Partelow, FRA Engineering; Roy Oppewall, Poughkeepsie,
NY; Ingrid Zabel, 121 Honness Ln.
CALL TO ORDER
Chairperson Wilcox declares the meeting duly opened at 7:06 p.m., and accepts for the
record Sec 'retary's Affidavit of Posting and Publication of the Notice of Public Hearings in
Town Hall and the Ithaca Journal on September 26, 2005 and September 28, 2005,
together with the properties under discussion, as appropriate, upon the Clerks of the
City of Ithaca and the Town of Danby, upon the Tompkins County Commissioner of
Planning, upon the Tompkins County Commissioner of Public Works, and upon the
applicants and /or agents, as appropriate, on September 28, 20058
Chairperson Wilcox states the Fire Exit Regulations to those assembled, as required by
the New York State Department of State; Office of Fire Prevention and Control.
PERSONS TO BE HEARD
Chairperson Wilcox opens this segment of the meeting at 7:06 p.m., and asks if any
members of the public wished to speak. With no .one wishing to speak, Chairperson .
Wilcox closes this segment of the meeting at 7.07 p.m..
SEQR Determination
Rite Aid Pharmacy / Judd Falls Plaza Redevelopment, 322 =350 Pine Tree
Road and 930 and 946 Mitchell Street.
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PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
Chairperson Wilcox opens this segment of the meeting at 7:07 p.m.
Bill Paladino, Ellicott Development
Bill Paladin'o, Ellicott Development Company, 295 Main St, Suite 210, Buffalo NY.
Chairperson Wilcox - Before you get started, ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to come
up behind us so that you can better view the charts and materials. that will be shown,
you are certainly welcome to do that. I assume you have a presentation?
Mr. Paladino — Correct.
Chairperson Wilcox — Be my guest.
Mr. Paladino — We are here to propose construction of a 14,564 square foot Rite Aid
pharmacy on the former Ides bowling alley site owned by the Hamilton family. The site
is currently... consists of 6 acres, which is located ... the bowling alley itself and four other
retailers. In our plans, we are looking at constructing two phases ,here. The first phase
of our development being the construction of the Rite Aid along Pine Tree Road, along
with 67 parking spaces and a drive- through. Phase II of this development is not.yet
planned nor ... its currently in the speculative stage at this point. At this point, the plan
that you do see before you right now is what we intend on going forth with in our initial
Phase I.
Under Phase I, as I mentioned, all structures on the site will be demolished and
a 14,564 square foot Rite Aid would be constructed with 67 parking spaces.. For access
to the site, we are showing curb cuts along Pine Tree Road. We are looking to share a
curb cut with the Courtside Fitness Center. We are currently working on an agreement
with them to complete this. Also, we will share an access with HSBC bank and Yunis
Realty, who is ground lessee of the property. The entrance for the HSBC is directly
across from the East Hill Plaza entrance. The entrance to Courtside is directly across
the street from another entrance on the other side of the street.
Our entrance along Mitchell Street, we are only looking for only one drive in and
out over here. It's pretty much in the same situation as the current drive. We are not
looking to change it much, just slightly modify it. We will look in our initial plans to
improve it.' With regard to the whole site, though we are only constructing under Phase
I Rite Aid, we are looking to improve the entire site at this point in time.. In terms of
redoing all of the existing pavement, repairing it, patching it, and or taking some out
and adding; green space in areas. Along Mitchell Street we are looking, as I said, we
are taking 'the home out and Regrade. Take out all the shrubbery and leave any
existing trees that are worth leaving and add additional landscaping throughout the
site.
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PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
One of the issues that has come up during ... its been discussed a lot during
preliminary discussions we had here is the existing pedestrian access to the site from
Mitchell Street and Pine Tree Road. With regard to pedestrian access along Pine Tree
Road, there is existing sidewalk currently located. We look to extend the sidewalk up.
across from where our existing Rite Aid doors would be and also pursuant to some
requests from the Town, complete a crosswalk and striping in order to facilitate where
the customers and pedestrians would cross. Along Mitchell Street it is a little more
cumbersome. We did have an idea, which we showed here on this plan. Negotiations
with Yunis Realty and HSBC at this point are not going very well. We have, as I have
shown here, a possible alternative to satisfying this requirement. I guess there are two
alternatives. One alternative could be to have the crosswalk continue all the way up. to
the corner and then continue back down Pine Tree Road. Because of. the nature of the
configuration of the corner, it sort of is out of the way. for pedestrians to walk,
especially if they are using the Rite Aid or East Hill Plaza. In order to try to alleviate
this concern and accommodate pedestrians, what we are looking to possibly to do and.
what I think we could accommodate if the board finds it acceptable is to construct this
walk coming down Mitchell and then at this point ... our property line is roughly right
there, construct a walkway up to this point, right in this landscaped island right here to
accommodate a sidewalk going through here and then widen this island on this side
and possibly losing a parking space in both of these area or just move it over a little bit
to add additional parking to accommodate the island. Under this plan we would provide
crosswalks and stripe the pavement accordingly for people to cross.
Also in our discussions, here in the rear you can see that there is a dumpster
enclosure in the back. Green islands and landscape islands, and all this pavement here
will be repaired and paved over to give it a nice improved look. As for site lighting, we
are showing a few lights on Pine Tree here, an additional light here, and some
additional lighting in the rear of the parcel and behind where the current bowling alley
is to keep it properly lit for safety and security in the back.
As for drainage, it has been an issue throughout this process. In the initial
phase we are showing a drainage pond for this site, which would be located back in the
far corner beyond our curbcut. We are calling for the pond to be completed in phases.
Under Phase I it would just accommodate the runoff from the Rite Aid until further
developme.'nt is done on the site at which time further. calculations would be done to
figure out the adequate size of the pond to be completed at that time.
Thee; building would be 24 to 26 feet in height depending upon where you are
looking at it. It's constructed of two -tone brick. This brick here being sort of a beigeish
color and a darker reddish. The front of the store will have metal panel and some ... with
automatic glass doors in the . front. The rear has a drive- through with expanded
windows where you can pretty much look right into the pharmacy and the pharmacists,
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PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 41 2005
APPROVED
and their assistants are very accommodating and will assist you accordingly. The site is
lit very well. The existing building, florescent lights underneath the drive- through.
Along the sides of the building there are some lighting above the doors here on this
side and lighting .above the door in the rear. As. for the front of the store, the only
lighting is candlelights underneath the front and there are some back ... the individual
letters here are lit. The pharmacy sign here is backlit and reflects off the metal
paneling.
Board Member Hoffmann — Excuse me. Could you repeat how the words Rite Aid would
be? Would they be lit or not?
Mr. Paladino — Individual letters are lit. The smaller letters on this band are also lit
individual letters. The band itself is not lit. That is pretty much what we are proposing
to do on the site.
Chairperson Wilcox — Are you all set for now?
Mr. Paladino — Yes.
Chairperson Wilcox — Okay. Let's talk about the County's letter. Let's get that out of
the. way. We have received a letter from the Commissioner of Planning of Tompkins
County based upon their review of the plans as submitted and as I said to Jonathan on
the phone, I had read this twice already and I wasn't sure that I completely understood
what they were saying so, Jon, if you don't mind, do you want to repeat some of the
conversation we had earlier today?
Mr. Kanter Sure. Well, probably the more significant or interesting part is on Page 2
dealing with traffic impacts. It appears to indicate, and then I did call the County to
confirm what it was they were trying to say. What the County is saying there is they
feel that pedestrian crossing of Pine Tree Road is a significant safety issue and
therefore, there needs to be further consideration of the possibility of the traffic light
and pedestrian crossing. It is not clear whether they, the County, understands that
there is a current pedestrian. crossing at that location or not. So I'll use the word
enhanced pedestrian crossing in to what they said. And so the issue there is would
adding a traffic signal at the intersection of the entrances to East.Hill Plaza and the Rite
Aid site, which are opposite from each other, would the installation of such a traffic light
help with the issue of pedestrian crossings and would it make it a safer crossing area.
So.the County's recommendation in this letter, of. course this letter is set up in a format
which we normally don't usually see, which is if we don't address these things than this
board needs a majority plus one vote in order to pass this action. I talked to the
County about what that traffic impact section means and basically because this is at the
preliminary approval stage, the County's response is if we include a condition saying
something to the affect that .there should be further consideration of the benefit of the
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PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
traffic light and the pedestrian crossing at that intersection that that would fulfill the
way that they formatted this letter.
Going back to some of the other things, they are talking a lot about pedestrian
and bicycle;; access and circulation. Some of the things that I mentioned in there, such
as, there should be a sidewalk along the entire frontage along Mitchell Street actually is
basically already there. There is an existing walkway on Mitchell Street; which covers
basically the whole frontage of the Rite Aid site there. They talk about some of the
other things. Mr. Paladino mentioned the possibility of adding a crosswalk actually in
the parking lot opposite where the Pine Tree Road crossing would go. That , is
something that is pretty easy to accommodate in the plan. So it sounds like the most
difficult one of these things to address is the question of how we would approach
pursuing consideration of the benefit of the traffic signal.
Chairperson Wilcox — After we spoke and read that again and it says, "We recommend
further consideration of the benefit of a traffic light and pedestrian crossing." Again,
"We recommend the further consideration of the benefit of." Yeah. Its not...that's why
I read it a couple of times.
Mr. Kanter At first I was worried that well maybe the County was saying there must
be a traffic signal installed there or else you need a majority plus one vote.
Board Member Thayer — It doesn't say that.
Mr. Kanter It doesn't say that and they confirmed that that was not what they meant
to say.
Mr. Paladino — Our traffic engineer is here tonight if you would like her to speak on
behalf of us.
Chairperson Wilcox — I'm sure we will give him or her a chance to speak this evening.
Absolutely. Are there any questions about the County's 239 Review? It may come up
later, but at least at this point...
Board Member Howe — Just in general, though, I agree with really, looking carefully at
the pedestrian and bicycle access. So I do concur with that..
Chairperson Wilcox — I agree.
Board Member. Hoffmann — Yeah, I do to.
Board Member Thayer — Oh, yeah.
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Board Member Hoffmann — But there is one thing that I found rather interesting. The
crossing which does exist and it doesn't sound as if they are sure that it is there, does
not have stripes in it. It just has the two lines outlining the crosswalk, but I thought
pedestrian crosswalks were supposed to have diagonal...
Chairperson Wilcox - You are talking about the crosswalk across Pine Tree Road.
Board Member Hoffmann Right. And that is the one that is the County's responsibility
because it is a County road.
Board Member Conneman — And in addition, it is not straight. It curves all the way
around and you can imagine that people will take the shortcut. Maybe that needs to be
reconfigured.
Board Member Hoffmann = Oh. I am talking about the one that crosses between East
Hill Plaza an'd Ides Bowling Lanes. That short one across Pine Tree Road.
Chairperson'' Wilcox — May I call you Bill?
Mr. Paladino — Yes.
Chairperson Wilcox — Okay. I am going to take this in no particular order. Did you see
Dan Walker's memo about stormwater detention and your proposed phasing of the
detention facility?
Mr. Paladino — Correct:
Chairperson Wilcox — So you are aware that Dan has recommended that the detention
facility not be phased and that the initial construction build a detention a facility that is
sufficient for the full build -out of the site.
Mr. Paladino — We wog
to speak on behalf of
scenarios as to how it
one way or another on
either way, meaning if
go forward with that.
Id just like our engineer, who is also here, if you would like him
that, just to look at it further with regard to a few different
may go and to see what type of dramatic affect it would have
the size of the drainage. But if it is not going to have an affect
we build a little less or build a little more, then we are willing to
Chairperson Wilcox — You understand the concern expressed by Dan in terms of the
issues when you go back in to enlarge it. I should point out to members of the board
that behind us over here on this wall are larger drawings, which show the proposed
detention, as proposed the phase I detention site on the top drawing and the bottom
drawing shows a slightly larger stormwater detention facility. Any issues with Dan
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Walker's recommendation that we get it built first and then we don't have to go back' in
and enlarge it?
Mr. Paladino — And with us demolishing the house, too, the sewer line would .come out,.
too, that it refers to also.
Chairperson' Wilcox By the way, you are welcome to ... you apparently have two
representatives with you. You are. welcome to bring them up there and have them talk
anytime you want and I'm sure we'll . ask them to speak at some point. Where do we
want to go? Do we want to talk about landscaping, which is always our favorite or do
we want to; get into number of parking spaces or traffic study or whatever? . Where do
we want to `go first?
Board Member Hoffmann — Could I ask a question about the detention pond since we
were talking about that now before we leave it? I'm not very good at understanding
the drawings and the drawings that we got are also so small. They had been made
smaller. than the original plans so the ink has blurred and it is hard to read the lines.
Could you describe how this detention pond would look and specifically, it looks like
there is supposed to be a berm around it. How high is the berm off the ground as it is
now?
Roy Oppewall, Poughkeepsie NY
There is not really a site berm around the pond. That is just to allow the water not to
into the pond; just general runoff. We direct the water to drainage pipes, but I think. in
this situation we are allowing water to run in from the north side and there is a berm on
the lower side.
Board. Member Hoffmann — The berm is only on the southern side?.
Mr. Oppewall — Yes. Towards Mitchell Street.
Board Member Hoffmann — Okay.
Mr. Opp ewall —_ So the water won't be allowed ... (not audible)...
Mr. Paladino — The site itself flows towards the corner.
Board Member Hoffmann — Right. So you will also be doing some digging to make
some depth?
Mr. Oppewall — Yes. The bottom of the pond is mostly 6 feet deep. There is a small
section that is a little deeper and the berm pond side that allows for dirt to settle. That
section is .a', little deeper:
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PLANNING .BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
Board Member Hoffmann — So I saw a little detail that showed a berm, which is 2 feet
high. Is that the height of the berm that would be on the southern side of this
detention pond?
Mr. Oppewall — (not audible)
Board Member Hoffmann - Okay and would that be landscaped towards Mitchell Street?
Mr. Oppewall - I am not sure if it is shown. landscaping. We generally do put .some
kind of ...(not audible) ... I haven't seen the landscaping plan. Do you know, Bill?
Mr. Paladino — We will be landscaping in front of the drainage pond. We will be
shielding as' much as possible from the remainder of the site and the street.
Board Member Hoffmann - Okay. Thank you.
Chairperson Wilcox — Next? George?
Board Member Conneman - Well, I think that Bill has indicated that the site will ... that
they will be taking the two houses down and you will make the site neat when you are
done.
Mr. Paladino — Correct.
Board Member Conneman — My fear always is that a developer begins and then he
leaves the site unsightly, I guess.
Mr. Paladino — I will say that now we are putting the drainage pond back there, it will
be ... that portion in this area will stay as trees and the same condition that it currently
is, though it will be .cleaned up. It won't just look like it does on Mitchell Street as it
does now. ::
Board Member Conneman — I assume, Fred, that signs are part of the site plan rather
than the SEAR?
Chairperson Wilcox — Bring it up now if you want.
Board Member Conneman — Well...
Chairperson Wilcox — Visual issues can be considered environmental.
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
Board Member Conneman — Bill probably knows that. I mentioned before about the
signs. You want to put up standing signs that are in my opinion huge. And it was two
freestanding signs would have to get a variance from the Board of Zoning Appeals. I
think one of the points.that I would make is this board would very strongly suggest that
that should not be. done. I am not sure why the signs have to be so big in what I
would call a neighborhood setting.
Mr. Paladino — What we are willing to do is reduce the size of the ... signs from down
from 124 feet to 20 feet. We are willing to do that and the face of the signs, currently
that is 7 by 7; we are willing to reduce to 6 by 6.
Board Member Hoffmann Would that make them fit within the Town's...?
Mr. Paladino It would. still be a little above the Town's ordinance. There are two
components to the sign. There is the normal face, which is the Rite Aid shield and all of
that, which is 7 by 71 49 square feet. That would go down to 36 square feet and then
the reader `board would stay the same size underneath that.
Board Member Conneman — Why do you need such big signs?
Mr. Paladino — I'm not a signage guy. They are actually much bigger in most of the
places that they do, do these signs. They feel that they need ... the, reader board being
the most important part of the sign that they do need, but also the visibility on the
street. Traffic moves fast on Pine Tree Road and they are seen from a distance.
Board Member Conneman — It is a neighborhood shopping center, however, this is
not ... would you do that in Westchester County, for example?
Mr. Paladino — Not down in Westchester..:
Board Member Conneman — It just seems to me that the signs are big and the number
of signs and the size of the signs on the building are also excessive.
Mr. Paladino — With regard to
the sign in the rear, currently
on both sides, we would like
81 square feet to a tota l of
building. The pharmacy sign
do come down to.'
the signage on the buildings, they are willing to eliminate
right here. The signage here, including the shield itself
to maintain those signs, but reduce those from a total of
56 square feet, make them smaller on the front of the
would also come don in proportion to what the side signs
Board Member Hoffmann — Can I just. repeat what I think you said so that I am sure I
understand what you said or if you can repeat it?
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PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
Mr.. Paladino — The sign on the rear of the building, which would be. facing towards the
Courtside, they are willing to eliminate.
Board Member Hoffmann — That is the one facing north.
Mr.. Paladino — The signs on the front of. the building one on Pine Tree, on facing out
towards Mitchell on the front, currently these signs. if you square them off like this are
about 81 square feet. They are willing to reduce those to 56 square feet.
Board Member Hoffmann - Each one is 81 square feet? .
Mr. Paladino — I believe so, yes. I think that actually includes this pharmacy sign, too,
which will come down accordingly in size.
Board Member Conneman Once you put. the freestanding signs up and that's
standard, it?seems to me that the signs on the building could be very small. There is no
reason for a big sign once you know where Rite Aid ism its the only building there.
Mr. Kanter - Or vice versa. It could work the other way, too.
Board Member Conneman - I don't think you need it both ways. There are lots of
developments like this where they don't put all the signs. up because you don't need
them in a.neighborhood.
Mr. Paladino - I think that; personally, it would look a little funny with no signs where
the Rite Aid' ones are.
Board Member Mitrano — We're not saying .no signs.
Board Member Conneman — I didn't say no. I said small, very small.
Mr. Paladino — I guess, give me an idea what size then the board would think. was
acceptable to them.
Board Member Thayer — Within the Code. That's all we want.
Mr. Paladino — Right now I believe we are in Code in terms of the area of the sign.
Board Member Thayer — Is the 56 square feet within Code?
Mr. Kanter, — I didn't have all the. square footage and. the calculations. There is a
formula to determine wall sign area, which is based on. linear frontage of the wall
space. There are also. limitations as to the number of wall signs you can have plus
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OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
canopy signs. There appears that there is also a canopy sign on the canopy overhang
on the front of the entrance. There also may be some interpretation necessary from
our illustrious Town Attorney...
Chairperson Wilcox — Esteemed attorney.
Board Member Thayer — If he could figure out what was legal, I would be wiling to let
them do up' to that. .
Board Member Conneman — Well, I think that they should do less than legal because I
think that this is a neighborhood and you don't need signs like that. Everybody knows
what Rite Aid is, if they don't by this time they have been on another planet.
Mr. Paladino — I think right now from what our interpretation, which the Town would
obviously have to concur with us, based on what we have there based upon what my
engineers tell me, the four signs on the building is what you are required to have. We
have six, I believe. The sign area, though, we are allowed 250 and we are at 210 right
now. We are underneath that by 40 feet. We are even willing to go under 210 to 190
or something like that. We are significantly under what is allowed, but we are asking
for a couple more signs than what are allowed.
Board Member Hoffmann — I have some comments about the placement of the signs,
too. It doesn't look to me like you have any sign on the very long western fagade and
that fagade, which faces toward downtown Ithaca, .if you will, along Mitchell Street, that
is the one where people who will come from downtown up in this direction will have the
best view of the building and there is not a single sign on that side.
Mr. Paladino — Well we are planning at some point, hopefully, of doing something else
on the rest of the property, which would pretty much stop people from seeing that side
of the building.
Board Member Hoffmann - From the layout that you provided, a possible layout for
Phase II, it doesn't look like that fagade would be obscured by additional buildings.
Anyway, it seems to me to make sense to have a sign in that direction if you want
people coming from there to know that there is a Rite Aid and maybe take away the
sign which is on the entrance corner because if you come from Ellis Hollow going
westerly in that direction or if you come from Pine Tree Road going north, you don't
need both of them. You will see one of them, one or the other.
Mr. Paladino — It is more for the building to look in proportion to itself, too, when you
look at the' front of the building. If you have one sign of the door and not on the other
side it will make the building look a little disproportionate.
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PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
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APPROVED
Board Member Hoffmann — Well, maybe the Rite Aid sign could be centered where you
have the glassed area instead of on the brick then. I'm just trying out different ideas.
because it seems to me not to make sense to have all the signs in one direction and
then none in another where the building is going to be very visible. And the other thing.
that I am wondering, could you show me on the map where the two freestanding signs
are going to be because again I had trouble finding that on my map.
Mr. Paladino - At the Mitchell access point, right here in the corner.
Board Member Hoffmann Okay. Maybe there is not one needed on the building.
Board Member Conneman - Maybe there is not one needed on Mitchell Street.
Chairperson Wilcox — I want to ... John, if you will. George mentioned it might be
appropriate for this board to ask for less than the legal amount of. signage. Are we
treading on thin ice there?
Attorney Barney — It is not as thick ice as you would be.
Chairperson Wilcox — I mean we could ask.
Attorney Barney — Well, I think if you have a basis for asking either from an
environmental visual standpoint or ... (not. audible). How did you get your 56 maximum?
Its 94 feet, if I am reading your plan correctly is the dimension across the south facade.
Mr. Paladin shows Attorney Barney the dimensions
Attorney Barney — The building is 155 feet by 94 feet minus a little bit of a cutout for
the entryway ... (not audible due to other conversations). So basically you can go to...
Chairperson Wilcox — Pretty close to 245, 2504
Attorney Barney — On one side you can go to 155 feet and the other 94.
Chairperson Wilcox — One linear foot of signage ... say it again.
Attorney Barney Maximum area of wall sign shall be for each linear foot of the
building frontage occupy the enterprise, which is one square foot.
Board Member Mitrano — Is the Code met?
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
Chairperson Wilcox — So it sounds like we are in pretty good shape with regard to, in
terms of what the Zoning Ordinance says as far as the signage on the building. We still
have the two freestanding signs.
Mr. Kanter - There is the issue of the canopy sign, which sounds like it is in addition to .
the wall signs would be exceeding.
Board Member Hoffmann - You are talking about the one that is indicated in blue
where it says Food Mart and 1 Hr Photo.
Mr. Kanter — I believe that that would be considered a canopy because it is basically a
canopy over the building entrance.
Attorney Barney — For a canopy, it is actually a 6 -inch maximum height.
Chairperson Wilcox — The will of this board is to not exceed the zoning regulations
regarding the signa,ge. George?
Board Member Conneman — My will is to not exceed it, but also to ask that they make
them smaller.
Chairperson Wilcox — The freestanding signs. Proposed is, right now the proposal is 6
by 6, each of them?
Mr. Paladino — 6 by 6 plus the reader board underneath.
Chairperson Wilcox — Which makes it a little bit bigger than 36 square feet, right? The
way that we measure the sign.
Mr. Paladino — I think it is 4 by 7 or 5 by 72
Chairperson Wilcox — That might be more of a visual impact than the signage along the
building because you have the mass of the building and the signage adds or detracts to
the blank face of the building. But the freestanding signs I think are more of an issue.
Board Member Mitrano — What is our. Code latitude?
Chairperson Wilcox - The Burger King, their freestanding sign, did that meet code? Do
you remember, Jon?
Mr. Kanter — I believe that the area met code and then the only variance they needed
for that was to put it in the rear.
13
0
Chairperson Wilcox — That's right. The height met C
needed a variance to put in the rear instead of in the
Board Member Conneman — But you also remember
some of their buildings and agreed not to put it there
Chairperson Wilcox' - My take here is that we want
well.
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
ode. The size met Code, but they
front, which we preferred .
that they have a red light around
because it was a neighborhood.
the freestanding signs to Code as
Board Member Thayer — Right.
Chairperson Wilcox =Even more important than the signage on the building.
Board Member Howe Although I wouldn't be opposed to that being smaller than what .
they proposed.
Chairperson Wilcox — Okay.
Mr. Kanter Just to clarify the area of a freestanding sign, which if you scale off of this
dimension here, there are actually two panels, but if you add the area of the two panels
that are shown here, you end up somewhere around 92 square feet total in each
freestanding sign.
Chairperson Wilcox — In the materials provided... what he said was he was going from
49 to 36.
Mr. Kanter — I'm saying that the total maximum permitted area of both panels together
is 50 square feet.
Chairperson Wilcox:— So you are talking 50 both panels and you are talking 36 just the
top panel. So my guess is ... this board would like the freestanding signs not to exceed
Code.
Board Member Conneman — The other issue is this will be lit, I gather, as will the backlit
of the signs!on the building. Is that right?
Mr. Paladino - Correct.
Board Member Conneman — What does the Code say about that?
Board Member Thayer - It doesn't affect the square footage.
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Chairperson Wilcox — It can be lit. We have to make sure that that lighting is not
intrusive or in any way creates a glare for pedestrians or motor vehicles. _Eva, you have
been patiently. waiting.
Board Member Hoffmann — I have an issue with some.of the signs on the building and
on the freestanding signs and that is I understand the Rite Aid, the brand name being
on the building. I 'understand the sign that says pharmacy. I understand the sign that
says drive - through with an arrow directing people to that, but I do not understand why'
it has to say on the canopy Food Mart, GNC Live Well and 1 Hr Photo. To me, that. is
advertising, of services or products that you provide and that should go in advertising in
the newspaper or in flyers that you send out. It shouldn't be on the building.
Mr. Paladino — Well, it is sort of like the supermarket. Supermarkets typically put
pharmacy on the outside of their buildings also even though you think of them as a
supermarket. So pharmacies sort of do the same thing in the reverse way. GNC is its
actual own little store within the store. You see the separate GNC Nutrition outlets, that.
is actually exactly what is in a Rite Aid store and that is why they would like their own
sign that is on the outside, real small. They are part of Ride Aid. Then the Food Mart,
people just want to know that they are more than just a pharmacy, that they do have
the basic necessity food items.
Board Member Hoffmann — But those are things people would find out as soon as they
go into the store, the first time that they had been there.
Mr. Paladino That's the whole thing though. They want people when they are driving
by who might otherwise goes somewhere else know that they have those products
within the store.
Board Member Hoffmann This is a small town and as George Conneman said a little
while ago, it won't take very long for the people who live here and who drive by to find
out what is going on. I find also that I don't feel there is a need for all of these signs
because of that. This is not a place where you need to trap a lot of people who come
.from far away to go to this particular store.
Board Member Conneman — You already have a store in the East Hill shopping plaza.
Board Member Hoffmann - Right and people know about that. This store, I
understand, will perhaps have more things than that little store carries, but I think that
is the kind, of thing that Rite Aid can let people know about in their advertising. It
shouldn't have to be in signs on the building that are lit and so on or on the
freestanding signs where it also says Food Mart and 1 Hr Photo, then specials of the
day. If it says Rite Aid pharmacy, I think that is all you need to direct people there.
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Board Member Mitrano.— Is it digital photography or traditional film?
Mr. Paladino -They do have those little kiosks.
Board Member Hoffmann — I did these photos today on the one that they have at the
little store in East Hill Plaza. They were pictures taken with a digital camera.
Board Member Mitrano - So they do it within one hour, is that the idea? I'm not just
trying to be silly because I am trying to analyze each of these things here. I think I do
understand Mr. Paladino's remark about, I'm not sure that most people do ' know that
there might be a Food. Mart, but I am concerned about the word Mart. Is Mart a word
or is it an abbreviation?
Board Member Thayer — Market, maybe.
Board Member Hoffmann — I don't know.
Board Member Mitrano — I've never liked that term, Food Mart. Then the second one,
Hr. There are just two more letters. Why do you have to abbreviate it? Just put one
hour.
Pt
Chairperson Wilcox — I think that we have expressed our wishes with regard to the
signage. I think that we have made ourselves pretty clear. Do we want to talk about
landscaping? Do you want to talk about the trees? .
Board Member Hoffmann — Sure.
Chairperson Wilcox — Let's do trees and then we could move into...
Board Member Hoffmann — I took those photos in case you haven't . been up there
recently to show the open spaces and the trees and so on. I saw on the papers and in
your presentation tonight, also, you said that you would be clearing all except the trees
that would ibe worthwhile to keep in that southern wooded area where the former
school house is that is going to be taken down. I think you said that you would keep
the trees that would be worthwhile keeping and that you would put grass on the
ground for the rest. And I also. see that you have proposed some new landscaping,
putting some rather nice large trees, three of them, along Mitchell Street, along the
proposed walkway there and those extra trees.are very nice. What I would like to see,
actually, is for you to, as you take down the old building, which I understand is not
worth keeping. It's just gone too far. To do it carefully and take all the debris out via
the driveway that still exists there and try to save all the trees that are there now and
most of the shrubs for now. I understand that later on when you come back with plans
for Phase II, and maybe want to put additional buildings there that you may want to
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clear out some more of that area to put buildings in, but for now to leave what is there
because it creates a very nice visual wooded area, a visual buffer. I took those photos.
to remind us all of how nice the big trees that exist all over this area, including in East
Hill Plaza, how nice those trees are to have there.
They may also have the additional benefit of absorbing some of the runoff from
the parking lots better than just a few trees that were left and a grass area would do.
More trees and more shrubs would probably absorb more runoff and protect that from
going on into the watershed south of Mitchell Street.
Mr. Paladino — We have no problem doing that so long as...we will have to do some
type of grading and erosion control in order to implement the sidewalk going through
there, but as long as it doesn't affect the construction of that, we can leave whatever is
there.
Board Member Hoffmann — A clearing for a sidewalk wouldn't have to be terribly large,
necessarily.
Mr. Paladino — It all depends on how the grades go
Board Member Hoffmann — The other area, which is very nicely wooded, is the one in
the northwest corner where the other house is located, and as you can see from some
of the photos, there are some big evergreens very close to that house. I would like to
see as much of that greenery along that whole western and northern boundary of. your
land be kept as long as possible, so that you don't clear it all now in anticipation of the
second phase.
Mr. Paladino — Even under the second phase, whatever we can keep, we will keep.
Board Member Hoffmann — Oh, yes, definitely. When you get to that you will come
back to us :and we will tell you what we think about what to keep then.
Mr. Paladino — The only thing that will be removed is just to accommodate the drainage
pond and outside of that whatever we can leave will be left right in place after the
demolition of the house.
Board Member Hoffmann — Okay. So what you wrote in the papers about seeding
grass, where would that apply then?
Mr. Paladino — In this area right here and then in -fill here wherever we take other
debris out. Right now this is just mixed and matched. We want to curb this and make
it more defined, that road at this point in time. So wherever the curb line comes,
whatever. is left there to be cleared and grubbed we'll seed that.
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Board Member Hoffmann — Okay. For how wide a strip?
Mr. Paladino I don't know until we actually get into it and we start digging it up and
grading and see what is left by the end of the day.
Board Member Hoffmann - But if you have some nice big trees right along that edge, I
would hope that you would try to save them.
Mr. Paladino We will try to accommodate them.
Chairperson Wilcox — While we were on...the house in the northern corner, I think the
first time you were here it was going to go away. The second time you were not sure.
Now you are saying that that house is going to be...
Mr. Paladino — There were still people in it the first time and the second time there
wasn't and.now it will go away.
Chairperson Wilcox — So as part of your Phase I, that house will be demolished?
Mr. Paladino — Yes. I was up there today and people are just vandalizing it at this
point.
Chairperson Wilcox — Thank you.
Board Member Hoffmann — I just. remembered another question that I had about the
landscaping. You indicate five rather large trees, oaks and maples, autumn blaze
maples along Pine Tree Road in that landscaped stretch that you have drawn . separately
there as a green island and I love to see it, but I vaguely remember when we talked
about this' earlier somebody, maybe it was Dan Walker; mentioned that there are
utilities buried under there and that it wouldn't be a good idea to put big trees.
Mr. Paladino — We have 20- something feet over there.
Board Member Hoffmann — So you have measured and you are planting the trees far
enough away from the utilities?
Mr. Paladino — We feel we would be able to plant them far enough away.
Board Member Hoffmann — Good.
Mr. Paladino — If there is a problem some where, we might down size a little bit just to
accommodate it, but for right now, that is what we intend. to do.
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Chairperson Wilcox - That little piece of greenery shown on your map, your plat and
also on the current bowling lane property has been a problem through many of the
renovations of the Ides bowling property. We have talked about the landscaping and I
don't think `it ever got to a point where we were satisfied. The argument always was
that the current landscaping was close to the road; you had snow, salt, and things like
that.
Mr. Paladino — It looks small here, but it is a rather large area.
Chairperson Wilcox - Yeah, but you can see the current landscaping there now, it
doesn't look good now and it really hasn't looked that good for years.
Mr. Kanter - This looks like the planted area comes a little bit into the site more than it
does now. 'So I think they are actually adding. planting area there to do that.
Board. Member Hoffmann — I. think you also said something about placing a berm along
here to putthe plants in.
Mr. Paladino — Yes. It will be bermed up in this area here to further_ shield the cars
from the street.
Board Member Hoffmann — Right, but will the whole width of the green area be bermed
so that you have more soil for the plants to grow in?
Mr. Paladino — The whole area won't, well, it will be I guess graded in a way, obviously
the middle being the highest point.
Board Member Hoffmann — Okay.
Mr. Kanter I don't think that we actually got that detail sheet. So that would. be
helpful to get that for the final plan submission.
Chairperson Wilcox- You have a person familiar with the traffic study?
Mr. Paladino — Correct.
Chairperson Wilcox — I assume it is the young lady, whom I can't see. Do you want to
stand up and use the portable one or do you want to have a seat? That is up to you.
What I would like from you besides name and address is for the members of this board
members of the audience, just a brief overview, executive summary of the traffic
impact study that was done.
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Megan Partelow, FRA Engineering
We looked at 14 intersections around the site and we did traffic counts at each of.the
intersections. We counted during the weekday morning peak hour, which is from 7 to 9
a.m., and we also counted the weekday evening peak hour, which is from 4 to 6 p.m.
With that, we took the trips generated from the project and we used the trips from the
Institute of Transportation Engineers, ITE, and generated the trips. We broke it down
into three phases. The first phase is just the pharmacy building and we generated 39
trips in the morning and 126 trips in the evening. For phase II, we added in the retail
development and we generated 155 trips in the morning and 540 trips in the evening.
Keep in mind that these trips are made up of new trips, primary trips, and pass -by trips.
The primary,, trips are people that come to, the site and their primary trip was to come to
the site. Pass -by trips, people will be coming to the site and they will continue on their
way and these trips are already on the network. So they are not considered new trips.
They are already existing on the street network.
Some of the conclusions from the study was it really didn't ... well I will explain to
you about the level of service. When we analyze is the existing traffic volumes and.
what the traditional trips, we use the same ... traffic simulation to model the existing
conditions a'nd the future conditions and it comes up with a level of service anywhere
from A to F. E and below is considered unacceptable. The only minor reductions when
we add the trips from the site ... because there were ... (not audible) ... so they were taking
traffic coming from the site and bring them in here. They don't have to go through this
intersection and up into this site drive if they don't want to, which makes it, the trips
are really distributed around the site.
The intersection, the main site drive intersection here with the Plaza that had
minor reductions in level of service. It didn't meet the warrants for a traffic signal. We
looked at the warrants from the existing volumes and the projected future volumes and
it didn't meet the warrants basically because of the amount of traffic coming into and
out of the site. It is just no high enough. We have about 18 vehicles turning left out of
our site, which there is enough gap in traffic to let them out. And with the use of the
two -way turn lane, they are able to refuge as they come out to get back onto Pine Tree
Road. The other intersection with a little bit of concern was Dryden Road and Pine Tree
Road. Really it is an existing problem and the levels of service eastbound and
westbound on Dryden Road are currently failing. The four -way stop sign there so that
is the primary reason..:(not audible). We proposed to put a signal in there to alleviate
eastbound and westbound trac.(not audible). The driveway j
ffi ust to the east of the
driveway with Pine Tree Road and there is a lot of traffic flowing north .heading into
Cornell Campus. Those are the main issues with the traffic.
Board Member Hoffmann — Did you look at pedestrian and bicycle traffic, too?
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Ms. Partelow — When we did the traffic counts the counters will observe if there are a
lot of pedestrians or bicyclist and take notes. There wasn't any major pedestrian
activity or bicycle activity that they noted though we didn't actually go out and do a
whole, pedestrian study in that area. We didn't think it was required at the time. But
with their comments about pedestrian activity would cross here, there is the existing
crosswalks and obviously, making that a little more visible.
Board Member Hoffmann — I am particularly concerned about how pedestrians will get
across from East Hill Plaza to this plaza and back and forth.
Ms. Partelow — I. can give you a little background from my ... from the existing conditions
out there. One of the things ... the speed limit out there is 35 miles per hour so it is not
real fast. You also have one lane ... with a center turn lane: Pedestrians do not have
four lanes or something like that to cross. It is relatively not a lot of pavement to have
to cross. Also, with the crosswalks there, it channels them to one area.
Board Member Hoffmann — Well, it is true that there aren't
direction, but the pedestrians that try to cross there will have
coming in and out of both East Hill Plaza and this plaza, and I
very often is the drivers who are looking to turn out look for of
and bicyclist tend to be almost invisible. That is why it is so
you cannot just look at the lanes going north and south there.
too many lanes in each
.to look out for the traffic
know that what happens
:her cars and pedestrians,
dangerous for them. So
Ms. Partelow - Yes, there is definitely... it includes . people making left turns, which is
something you look at for any intersection. The other thing, too, the average traffic on
this road is about a little above 5,000 vehicles per day and during the peak. hours you
are going to have the higher amount of traffic, which is only really two hours during the
day in the morning and the evening they have heavy traffic where it will be harder for
pedestrians to cross. The rest of the time it drops down and there won't be as much
traffic in that area.
Board Member Conneman — I understand that you have been talking to HSBC and
Cornell because Cornell is going to build or at least proposes to build_ a 60,000 square
foot office building with 240 parking spaces.
Ms. Partelow — I can talk to you a little bit about that. I did talk to the SRF Engineering
who is doing the traffic study for them. One of the things I just talked to them about is
their site is going to be aligned directly across from our northern site drive there. They
are closing this driveway and will use this as their site drive. So it is just going to be
those two four -way intersections. We did consider that in our traffic study impacts,
analysis. We added their traffic to the road to see the affects. Again, it really didn't
decrease the level of service significantly.
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Board Member Conneman — I find it difficult to believe that 240 people coming in and
out in the morning and the evening, someone could turn left, people going in and out,
would not create a lot of traffic.
Ms. Partelow — Again, the peak hours of this pharmacy aren't really going to coincide
with the peak hours of the office. They are usually just a little bit later in the day. The
evening ones overlap a little bit, though the two -way center turn lane gives them ample
room there to turn. With the Genex site, they will have to evaluate whatever they
need. They may need specific turn lanes just for that site and they might have to do
that. That we did not look at. We ' just really looked at the traffic from our
development turning in onto our site, which was relatively low.
Board Member Conneman — What will the hours of the pharmacy be when it is open?
Mr. Paladino — Nine to nine.
Ms. Partelow — In the morning, it really is just going to miss the peak hour commuter
traffic and office traffic.
Board Member Mitrano Is. there such thing as a traffic light that is generated only by
pedestrian request?
Board Member Hoffmann —'Where there is the crossing light at Green and Cayuga
downtown by the library.
Mr. Paladino — You have the ones typically in front of schools, I think, that blink and
they hit the button and they turn. In front of firehouses have them also, occasionally.
Board Member Mitrano — Could that be a possibility? Because I appreciate that you've
already got °the light at the intersection there so that is pretty short to have a standard
traffic light, but if you had something that could be generated by pedestrian request,
because I agree with everything that you said, Eva, so I'm trying to find a solution.
And taking into account that the Summerhill pedestrians tend to be elderly and while it
might. not be Henrietta Road in Rochester, it certainly is going to be a challenge for
people with less mobility to try to get across.
Chairperson. Wilcox — Were you going to say. something?
Ms. Partelow - I was going to. say that they do have in some areas, by schools; they
can put in pedestrian light. In this case, like you said, with it being so close to the
Mitchell Street intersection light, then you are talking about backups, possibly, it could
affect that intersection. Without having actual pedestrian counts in that area, people
are, I don't know ... even though pedestrians are coming to one of the sites versus
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crossing over or if they are driving, they are probably going to drive from one site to
the other and notary to actually cross the road, if it is during the peak hours. In. the
off -peak hours you might have a lot of gaps that would be easy for people to walk
across. With the elderly, they are usually, when they are doing their shopping it might
be early morning or afternoon when. it. is not during the peak commuter, traffic on Pine
Tree.
Mr. Kanter — Can I ask a question?
Chairperson. Wilcox - Go ahead.
Mr. Kanter — The issue seems to be pedestrian safety at that crosswalk areas. Do you
have any suggestions short of installation of a traffic signal the safety might be
enhanced at that crosswalk? Do you have any experience in how that can be handled?
Ms. Partelow — .Where they are talking about really channelizing the pedestrians in a
specific area making it very visible for vehicles coming up to the pedestrian crossing:.
Keeping them aware ... there might be a lookout ... that is probably the biggest concern
that people don't know that they are going to be crossing there. Signage is definitely
one thing actually visible on the roadway. Other than that, then we start getting into
the signals, which they do. have a signal for pedestrians, but there have to be quite a
few pedestrians to actually trigger the signal.
Board Member Thayer — The City has actually just put in some raised pedestrian islands
downtown, ;which seem to work pretty well, too, without having any traffic interruption.
It just slows them down, like a speed bump type thing.
Ms. Partelow - ...make them aware...
Board Member Thayer - I wonder if something like that might be possible.
Board Member Mitrano - That's a good idea, too.
Chairperson Wilcox.— County roads. Mitchell Street, Ellis Hollow and Pine Tree Roads
are all County roads at that point.
Mr. Kanter - Although we have already gotten the County Planning and Public. Works
Commissioner saying he thinks something should be done to enhance pedestrian safety.
Chairperson Wilcox— Which is good. And to stripe them appropriately. I was surprised
when I .was reading the report on the Dryden Road and Pine Tree Road intersection.
The State spent how many millions of dollars to improve the safety of that intersection
by moving Judd Falls Road out of the way so that it wasn't an offset intersection. I
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actually thought that it functioned better. I go through it enough and I thought that it
was functioning better. Your report indicates that you are still talking levels of services
of D, F and C.
Board Member Thayer — Not very good.
Board Member Conneman — But Fred, it works.
Chairperson "Wilcox — It does work.
Board Member Conneman — It works better. than the lights.
Chairperson Wilcox- It does work. Even at peak hours. I
Cars are turning and its not like you are sitting still for
worst thing in the world when you are stuck in traffic.
forward and cars are turning, the only thing you get mac
the intersection and they can't decide whose turn it is to
stare at each other.
at least feel like I. am moving.
30 seconds and, which is the
As long as you are moving
le at is when three cars get to
go first and they sit there and
Mr. Kanter — Could I ask a question on the other end? I was interested in your analysis
of Route 79 and Pine Tree Road and the possible future need to look at a traffic signal,
a full traffic signal there. Could you just talk about that a little bit more?
Ms. Partelow — In Phase I with the additional traffic from the pharmacy, we really
weren't adding ... (not audible) ... left turn from Slaterville onto Pine Tree, When Phase II,
with the background growth, and just normal growth that is to be added, we used the
1.25 percent during Phase II, which is based on historical count data and it just
triggered that left turn to go to the level of service E. It is really because of how much
traffic is on Slaterville and those cars have to wait to make that left turn. So right now
it doesn't look like it is warranted, but it might be something after Phase II or
depending up on the growth in the area.
Chairperson Wilcox — I'm just thinking here, if you are headed on Route 79 E, yeah,
that is an odd turn -to -turn left. You are right. That doesn't happen very often, either
because the. level. of service isn't very good or if you are between Pine Tree Road and
Honness Lane intersect Slaterville Road, you go down and up Honness Lane.
Mr. Kanter — The delay is primarily in the afternoon peak hour where people leaving
Cornell, for all purposes, from south on Pine Tree Road. and trying to make that left turn
at the blinking signal onto 79 and that is one of the places where you see cars sort of
nosing out and then coming out real fast when they see a break in the traffic.
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Chairperson Wilcox — We should note that a couple of years ago in the Northeast
Subarea Transportation Study, which recognized the issues of traffic from Slaterville,
Dryden, Caroline coming across Pine Tree Road through the intersection with Route. 366
onto campus through. Forest Home and then towards the airport for example and made
the suggestion that there should be a by -pass route and we all know how well that
went over. A lead balloon comes to mind. Any other questions for Megan while she is
up there?
Board Member Hoffmann — What was it I was going to ask?
Chairperson Wilcox — She's not going anywhere. She will be available if you have
another question.
Board Member Hoffmann — Okay.
Chairperson Wilcox — Thank you.
Board Member Hoffmann - Oh, I remember now. Sorry. I understand from the papers
that we got earlier that you included, when you did the traffic study you included the
traffic that is expected, from the new Cornell offices also in back of the Genex building
in the study. So when you are talking about that intersection that Jon Kanter just
asked about, that also includes all the traffic to and from that site?
Ms. Partelow = It does from the cumulative impacts portion of it. It does include the
Genex site. Again, it is really just a peak hour where it shows the grade level of
service. Most of the hours it is probably functioning fine ... (not audible).
Board Member Hoffmann — I live in that area and I hear a lot of comments from people
who live -on Pine Tree Road about all of the traffic that goes by there and that they
have trouble even going across getting the mail from their mailboxes sometimes.
Ms. Partelow — I can see during the peek hours.when everyone is letting out just in
those few hours it might be difficult. It is kind of typical in a lot of areas to be like that.
Board Member Mitrano — Is it 35 mph down there?
Ms. Partelow — It is 35 and that will sort of slow traffic down. Because it is one lane,
people are just going to have a little ... (not audible).
A
Board Member Conneman — That's not the way it works.
Board Member Hoffmann — No. It isn't. The problem is that there is this long stretch
between East Hill Plaza and down to where the houses begin to be and people tend to
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PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
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speed up there and then they continue speeding through the residential area. I hear
about that, too.
Board Member Mitrano _ Yup. Oh, I'm sure. It's a speed trap, although I haven't seen
the police there for a while. Actually, it's not a speed trap. Its an area much deserving
of the attention of the police for that reason.
Chairperson Wilcox - When we considered the Burger King proposal, those of you may
or may not remember, I actually voted. against it. Two major concerns that I had, one
was the traffic between the Burger King, the gas station and the East Hill Plaza and just
the way that I didn't think it was well organized or very safe. The other thing was Pine
Tree Road and the additional traffic on Pine Tree Road.. It is still a concern of mine, but
it is interesting, the one thing that helps that mitigate ... the issue with. Pine. Tree Road is
that as you head from Honness Lane kind of west towards. Slaterville Road, it is very
narrow through there. The road is extremely narrow. On the one hand, that creates
insufficient room or we wish there was more room for pedestrians to be able to walk
along the side of the road. On the other hand, a narrow road slows people down. The
old issue about you have 10 foot driving lanes or 11 foot or 12 foot lanes. There is an
interesting character to that stretch of the road with the trees and the houses close to
the road and the very narrow shoulders that certainly when I drive through there, I
tend to slow down when I get passed the intersection with Snyder Hill Road because
the character of the road changes rather dramatically.
Board Member Mitrano — Yeah, but I wouldn't want to live along there and have to
cross the street to my mailbox.
Chairperson Wilcox — No, and I'm more worried about as you head down hill towards
Slaterville Road where the road widens and just the amount of paved area is much
wider. Alright. Are we all set with Megan right now? Very good. Thank you. Stay
with traffic? Move on?
Board Member Conneman — Sidewalks. I would like to know what they are really
proposing and what is likely to happen. If HSBC says no, what are you going to do?
Mr. Paladino — The proposal that we have here. What we would ideally like to see us,
as developers, is that the sidewalk and right -of -way come up to the corner, have people
cross and the light, cross and then walk up East Hill. In lieu .of that, what we are willing
to do, is come down Mitchell to a point, which is about 10 to 15 feet off this property
line. Have a sidewalk up to this point, extend and make this island bigger and put a
sidewalk in the island, put a crosswalk here over to the building and make this island
bigger and then people can cross over here.
Chairperson Wilcox — When you. say crosswalk, you mean a striped area.
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PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
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Board Member Conneman — When you say sidewalk in the island you mean trees on
both sides and a walk in the middle or something.
Mr. Paladino Not. necessarily trees, but something on each side.
Board Member Conneman - That is what they do down to Wal -Mart actually.
Chairperson Wilcox —.It is a place you can stop where you are safer. The issue, as
shown on the. ma, and this is what we saw, before, the hope was that you could come
up and go around HSBC bank building, which is owned by Yunis Realty. The house on
the corner is owned by Cornell University. So far your negotiations with:..
Mr. Paladino — We have not discussed it with Cornell.
Chairperson Wilcox — But your discussions with either Yunis Realty or their agents or.
representatives are not going well so far?
Mr. Paladino — Correct.
Chairperson Wilcox — What is their issue?
Mr. Paladino - They don't want the liability or maintenance of it.
Chairperson Wilcox — Typical.
Mr. Kanter — The thing to remember, also, besides providing access to this site off of
the Mitchell Street walkway is to provide a connection to that crosswalk area to be able
to cross Pine Tree Road. The Mitchell Street Walkway is intended to be a through route
to get across to East Hill Plaza.
Mr. Paladino — The only benefit of going up to the intersection is that people would be
able to cross with the light and it would make it a much safer crossing on Pine Tree, but
in reality, people will cut through the lots to get to where they want to go.
Board Member Hoffmann — It is not only that at that particular intersection. The
problem is that it is a very long walk across from one side to the other because there
are so many lanes on all four sides of the intersection.
Mr. Paladino — I would rather walk where it is safer and go the extra couple of miles.
27
Board Member Hoffmann
would be so hard to go
directions.
Mr. Paladino - The one t
they didn't recognize the
right now. The crosswalk
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
— Well, I'm not sure that it would be safer there, because it
from one side to the other with all the cars turning in all
king that the Town had in their recommendation, too, is that
sidewalk that is existing along Pine Tree. There is one there
is in this area.
Chairperson Wilcox — And you have your little stub, if you will, actually just offset a little
bit.
Mr. Paladino We are just trying to get the closest distance between... trying to
minimize the amount of pavement that people have to walk across.
Chairperson Wilcox — Who mentioned Wal -Mart and what they do at Wal-Mart?
Board. Member Conneman — Down at Wal -Mart, I don't go in there very often, but they
have two parking lanes and then in the middle they have a few shrubs and they have a
sidewalk. So you can actually not walk across the parking lot. You can walk up the
sidewalk, which is protected against the cars banging against you, too, because of the
way they set the things in. It is pretty effective.
Chairperson Wilcox — So if we kind of take that theory and...
Board Member Thayer — I .think.that is what he is talking about.
Mr. Paladino — And we have the room to do it. It is not a problem. .
Board Member Conneman — I just wanted to say that Carrie would say you can even
take your kids by the hand and walk down that sidewalk because you have some
protection.
Mr. Walker' — One comment from an engineering standpoint,
changes in there between Mitchell Street ... there is a pretty good
house now.: Plus if you've got the driveway you are showing the
alignment of the existing walkway. There is a walkway that
Street. It ends there and cuts directly towards the building,
there are some grade
bank up to the existing
ire, it is pretty much in
comes up to Mitchell
Chairperson Wilcox - Oh, the existing one? It just cuts right across
Mr. Walker — People coming on Mitchell Street are going to see that opening. They are
not going to use the sidewalk.
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
Board Member Hoffmann — That is what I always thought. :
Mr. Walker - They are going to see the Rite Aid, if there is a sign there or not, I don't
know. They are going to see the East Hill Plaza and that is the shortest distance
between the two points. So the people especially from the Maple Avenue Apartments,
the Cornell housing there, which is one of the bigger pedestrian generators for this
area, will probably not walk along Mitchell. Street when they get to that. First driveway.
They are going to cut straight up. So I would almost recommend instead of putting the
sidewalk along Mitchell Street, they put it through the property pretty- much the way
that that existing one goes now: Now I understand when the Phase II stores come in,
it may, with the way the parking is setup on that with two bays between the buildings.
Mr. Paladino —That is something that would not be able to remain permanently. We
don't really want to build two sidewalks. We.would rather do a permanent and
complete the project right now in terms of the access. The existing sidewalk that is
there we are willing to maintain where it is at this point. I don't know if that is
something you can really do or not. It is not really shown. In any event,. once this is
further defined, in that, I don't think people are just going to walk ... it is not going to be.
like it is right now all wide open. It is going to be improved. It is going to be curbed.
It is only going to be 26 feet wide and people will know if they are walking there that
they are walking in a lane .of traffic, unlike the big 35 foot right -of -way as it is now
where people can just walk off to the side and they are not going to get hit. People are
going to realize now they are walking in the road.
Chairperson Wilcox — Eva had made the point previously that either because
pedestrians, many are likely to take the direct route, or the fact that they are used to
taking that existing walkway that runs across the Ides Bowling lanes property, which
frankly, it is not pedestrian safe the way it is configured. You do have to cross the
parking lot and go along the side of the, building and then . if you are going to the P &C,
for example, you have a significant amount of asphalt parking lot to cross.
Mr. Walker — There is an area there. That could have been handled better from Ides
design there, parking with the islands and things like what they are suggesting here.
Mr. Paladino — I agree with you, people are just going to take the easiest route. But we
are going to make it as defined as you possibly can under this plan. In all honesty,
they are stupid if they walk in the parking lot at that point. Right now it is sort of just
you can go anywhere in that lot. Nothing is defined.
Mr. Kanter — The question of the walkway on the west side of the site addresses one of
the comments in the County letter as well, which said and other pedestrian
enhancement should address access from the west and. Mitchell Street. This could
consist of a sidewalk connection west of the bank providing a more direct access to the
29
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
southwest corner of the proposed Rite Aid. It sounds like if we tried to do something
around the' existing walkway coming up off of Mitchell Street, try to preserve or rebuild
that in that location at least for Phase I 4and then have a safe protected area for
pedestrians through the parking lot from that. That might only address the County's
concern, but address what we were trying to do herewith that connection.
Mr. Paladino — We can alter in here. We can alter this a little bit to accommodate the
existing walkway, but eventually they are going to get to a point in here where they
have to cross a lot of pavement to go over to this building.
Mr. Kanter — Something would have to be done with it.
Mr. Paladino — Between here and here is 25 feet.
Chairperson Wilcox - It could be 100 feet easily.
Mr. Walker — I guess the question is, why do we need a driveway between the rear
portion of the Rite Aid parking lot and the bank parking lot at all? What if we extended
that berm where you are proposing that walkway, just close that driveway connection?
Mr. Paladino — This is where the parking is.
Mr. Walker.— You are coming into that parking on your side, but do they need to go...if
they park in that particular area, they are probably going back out on Pine Tree Road
again, but maybe they are parking there because they want to go to the Rite Aid and
the bank in between. I don't see a need to have a traffic flow coming from Mitchell
Street, up the Rite Aid driveway from the west, making the swing to the right into the
bank. If they come up the Rite Aid driveway, they should keep in the Rite Aid parking
lot.
Chairperson Wilcox — What about the other way, Dan? If they come through the
proposed drive- through...
Mr. Walker — You would eliminate that driveway because your primary traffic coming in
to get to your store...
Chairperson Wilcox — Dan, can you point? Thanks.
Mr. Walker — What I am saying is, this lane here doesn't really mesh at Rite Aid. It
might benefit the bank for people who are coming in from this. way, but this entrance is
much more direct to the bank. I don't think Rite Aid has any obligation, unless there is
an easement or something, to provide access to the bank from their parking lot. People
coming in from Pine Tree Road, if they want to go to the bank and Rite Aid, coming to
Kies
PLANNING MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
this parking area would be logical to go back and forth between the two, but if they
really want to come to the Rite Aid, they will probably make a right turn and park in this
lane or adjacent to the store. I don't really see that this driveway, which would be. on
the south side providing access from the back lot of the Rite Aid to the bank.
Chairperson' Wilcox = What if you came through the drive - through at Rite Aid and then
wanted to go to the bank?
Mr. Walker — Then I suggest that you go around and make that path. The bank drive -
through is on the south side and it drives from the west to the east. If they were
driving to the bank, they could come in and go Mitchell Street. If.they came in that
I
ay then they could drive up into...so they would just have to plan their trip better.
Board Member Conneman So Dan, you are suggesting that there be no car traffic
in ... no ... where the Mitchell... move your hand ... right there, there be no car traffic.
Mr. Walker — No. This is . an appropriate entrance to Rite Aid, but I don't think there
needs to be a connection between the Rite Aid parking lot and the bank parking lot.
Board Member Thayer — Just fill that triangle in, you are saying, right, Dan?
Mr. Walker - So basically where the existing walkway comes now, you could come to
this point and continue that walkway all the way to this island and make that solid and
then they could just have that one crossing .that they have to make, which would be
about 20 feet.
Mr. Kanter — Put a crosswalk in.
Chairperson Wilcox — Sounds pretty good, Bill?
Board Member Hoffmann — I like that.
Chairperson Wilcox What do you think, Bill?
Mr.. Paladino — I'm not against that, but I think I would prefer....that would be
acceptable and we could probably live with that, but I prefer to do a permanent fix that
this point in time and get people used to doing...
Chairperson Wilcox The point has been made that pedestrians are going to go that
way anyways.
Mr. Paladino — .Correct. If they walk that way, its one thing, as an owner we obviously
don't want the sidewalk on our lot either, as HSBC doesn't for liability. We would rather
31
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
keep it along the right -of -way where typical sidewalks are. People shouldn't be cutting
through properties just to walk through the middle of the property
Chairperson Wilcox — You are right. We are asking that you could conceivably construct
that sidewalk or enhance the existing one probably reconstruct it, a new walkway and
then at some point, should Phase II ever come to fruition, it is very likely that you
would then have to tear that up.
Mr. Paladino — I guess I would be willing to do that on the premise that we don't have
to reconstruct the entire sidewalk. We could simply add to it to complete it to this point.
and go up.
Chairperson Wilcox — Make use of the existing walkway that is there?
Mr. Paladino — Correct.
Chairperson Wilcox — You might, when you look at it, you might decide to, given
everything else you about what you want to do to the existing property to spruce it up,
may look at that existing walkway and decide it might need a little sprucing up. I think
we...
Mr. Paladino Or possibly the standards. for a sidewalk could be reduced. I'm not sure
what your.standards are, typically concrete. Maybe we could do pavement.
Chairperson Wilcox.-- It is an asphalt walkway right now.
Mr. Paladino — Then would be alleviated from doing that sidewalk at this point in time
also?
Chairperson Wilcox — In my opinion, that is a substitute for what is being shown there.
Either what you originally shown or what you were talking about this evening because
of your issues with the HSBC bank building.
Mr. Paladino — Then when we do redevelop, the properties, this is an acceptable
alternative that we can go back to. Is.that.okay?
Board Member Thayer — That sounds good to me.
Chairperson Wilcox — Sounds good. Sir?
Mr. Walker I do know that when Ides received a site plan approval and when Cornell
received some site plan approvals for East Hill Plaza in the same timeframe that there
were some agreements signed, I believe, that Ides agreed to build a portion of the
32
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
sidewalk that crossed their property up to their building and agreed to maintain it. I
don't know whether that travels with the deed on the property and then Cornell agreed
to maintain the sidewalk along Pine Tree Road, only at that time it was Judd Falls Road.
Attorney Barney — Wasn't that done in conjunction with the actual Mitchell Street...
Mr. Walker - That was done in conjunction with the Mitchell Street, which Cornell paid.
a good chunk of money to. I don't know if there is any binding legal requirements for
that walkway.
Attorney Barney.— I think that probably the people involved would be able to consent to
a relocation of it.
Mr. Walker — Right, but I think that we...
Mr. Paladino — There is an existing agreement.
Mr. Walker — The other issue is that the sidewalk on Mitchell Street is. a county road. It
is not a sidewalk; it's a walkway. 'We have this. discussion. all the time. The County
does not maintain walkways or sidewalks. The Town maintains it up to the Ides
property currently and then Ides maintains it to their property and then Cornell
maintains it on the other side. I'm not sure if the Town wants to pick up all the
maintenance on that. I think we would expect the commercial entities that would
benefit from having access to their property maintain it.
Chairperson Wilcox Would maintain the sidewalk.
Mr. Walker - Walkway.
Chairperson Wilcox — What's the difference? Briefly.
Attorney Barney —. Sidewalks are concrete and walkways are blacktop.
Mr. Paladino — This sidewalk right here is on our property, about. 20 feet on our
property and it isn't in the right =of -way.
Board Member Hoffmann — I would think that one of the benefits for Rite Aid in going
back to use the sidewalk or walkway that goes through the site is that it makes it easier
for pedestrians to come right up to Rite Aid's front,door and perhaps go in.
Chairperson Wilcox — I'm just looking at Jon Kanter's memo. We haven't talked about
parking yet. Any issues with regard to the proposed number of parking spaces? We
talked about access and circulation. We talked about sidewalks, walkways,, access,
33
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
traffic, stormwater management we did early on. We talked about the building, the
design, the lighting. We talked about the landscaping. Certainly the retention of the
existing trees to the greatest extent possible. We ... not really talked about lighting so
much. Jon does, in his, indicate that some of the fixtures are not fully shielded. We
certainly had discussed signage and what we wanted to see. Any other aspects of
environmental review that we haven't touched upon or that someone is concerned
about at this point?
Mr. Kanter — Oh, how about building design in general? More general than signs.
Chairperson Wilcox.— It's fine. What do you say? It's nice. Its commercial.
Board Member Thayer — Its okay. . _
Board Member Conneman — It's not nice.
Chairperson Wilcox — Its okay.
Board Member Conneman — Well, I say it's not nice.
Chairperson Wilcox — On a scale of 1 -10, with 10 being exceptional and 1 being ugly,
nice is like a 5. That is where I. put it.
Board Member Conneman — You have a different scale than I do.
Chairperson Wilcox — Very well.
Board Member Hoffmann —
the two long facades, alor
rather monotonous looking.
we should look into asking
maybe some vines growing
The comment that I would have about the building is that
ig the eastern side and western side of the building, are
I think Jon Kanter had suggested at one point that maybe
to have some plantings, maybe some foundation plantings,
on the walls to...
Mr. Kanter - I didn't say that.
Board Member Hoffmann - No, you didn't mention the vines. I added the vines, but
some foundation plantings you said, just to help break up that long stretch of wall on
both sides. I think that is something that I would actually like to see.
Chairperson Wilcox — I see nodding heads.
Mr. Paladino — What are foundation plantings? Currently right now, from our building,
the side lot there really is no room to include plantings.
34
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
Chairperson Wilcox - Can you flip it back over so we can just take a look? Now there is
no room because you didn't put any room or there is no room because it doesn't fit the
site? You have plenty of room to do it, right?
Mr. Kanter - It looks to me like you could certainly shift things a little bit.
Mr. Paladino — Where are you looking for plantings is I guess. what I don't understand.
Chairperson Wilcox - Well, what is the intent? The intent is to break up the large mass.
That is the issue. when you see the size of these buildings you are presented with a
mass. There is no better way to say it. Either through windows or through different
color concrete or landscaping, the intent is to in some way soften what you see when
you see that. In this case, you are talking 155 400t long side of the building. You
know, plantings along the foundation will go a long way to just making it look that
much nicer.
Board Member Hoffmann - If you look at the foundation plantings of the HSBC bank,
they have small plants. They are not very big in diameter and they have different
heights. Some of them are sort of columnar, growing up higher. Some of them are
lower. So you get a variety along the wall. Along such a long wall as you have there, I
think it would be important to have evergreens that have a columnar shape so that they
eventually would get as tall as the building itself or slightly taller, but not very wide. So
they wouldn't stick out over the sidewalk. There are such plants.
Board Member Conneman — The reason they are called. big box stores is because that is
what they look like. If you could soften that, then you could make history and say well
Rite Aid has a beautiful building or okay building. HSBC building is not a beautiful
building either. It is towards the lower end of my scale,. but it does have some
shrubbery and it sort of softens it. I think anyway.
Mr. Paladino — I heard you just call this one a beautiful building. Is that what you said?
(laughing)
Board Member Conneman I am usually accused of using the four -letter word
beginning with u.
Board Member Hoffmann — Another thing that I thought of when it comes to the look of
the building, the exterior look, is I have no idea how the colors you are proposing are
going to look next to seeing the P &C building across. It would be nice. to see that the
colors go well together.
35
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
Chairperson Wilcox— You may have handed me all of your pictures..
Mr. Paladino — That is actually a real built store. It will give you a better idea of the
color more so than this stuff. These don't...
Chairperson Wilcox When Bill was talking to John, he handed me this...
Mr. Paladino — What you see there some of the ones from a distance. I think there is
one there from the end that sort of sets the store back a little bit and that is the actual
color of what the store will look like. We can look at putting those foundation plantings
in.
Board Member Hoffmann — Anyway, you can understand my point that it would be nice
if the two buildings didn't clash with each other across the road because the P &C
building is.such a massive one, just like yours.
Mr. Paladino — We can look at our colors a little bit.
Board Member Hoffmann — The colors can be different as long as they look good
together.
Chairperson Wilcox — It looks a lot better. In fact, it looks so much different that it
looks like different colors. Can you bring something next time?
Mr. Paladino — I can. I can bring actual brick that they use on it.
Board Member Hoffmann — The only thing that it's jarring now about this picture are all
the signs.
Chairperson Wilcox — Anything else with regard to the environmental review?
Board Member Hoffmann — There was a point, I think it was in Jonathan Kanter's memo
about the possibility of contacting some historic organization in town, like Historic
Ithaca or DeWitt Historical Society, about the possibility of salvaging some parts from
the old houses when they are taken down.
Chairperson Wilcox - You have to let them know.
Mr. Paladino — I can call them.
Board Member Thayer - Okay. I'll move the SEQR.
Ke
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
Chairperson Wilcox — I did say that I would give the public a chance. You can still
move it, but hold on. So Bill, I think you have been here enough times, I am going to
give the public a. chance to speak so if you want to collect your stuff and go back.
Ladies and gentlemen, this is not the public hearing. Should we get I through the
environmental review, we will have. the formal public hearing. Nonetheless, I will give
those .of you who wish to make a brief comment with regard to the environmental
review an opportunity at this point.
Ingrid Zabel, 121 Honness Ln
My comment is about ... my concern is about the pedestrian crossing across Pine Tree
Road. That is a crossing that I sometimes cross now between East Hill Plaza and I
occasionally go to the Mail -N =More store across. the street and usually when I am
crossing it is in the middle of the day. so it is not at the peak periods. I am usually with
small children so I am effectively mobility impaired. I have to say even now crossing
there slowly in a not -peak time; it is a pretty scary crossing. So I think when traffic
patterns change it really needs to be addressed.
The other thing is typically the way that I shop at East Hill Plaza now is that I go
to several stores and often it is P &C and Rite Aid. So.I think when Rite Aid moves .
across the °street,, I am going to be crossing a lot more, probably on foot. So I think
that should be taken into account that even though now there is not a lot of pedestrian
traffic, I think it will increase. One definitely needs at a minimum the stripes and
flashing lights or something like that. It was brought up the idea, a crossing that would
be triggered by pedestrians and those are good, but my experiences with them was
that they can be dangerous, too, because cars get used to them, mostly having green
lights and then all of a sudden when there is a pedestrian crossing at a red light,. a lot
of cars don't even see it, because they are used to it being green. Another option
might be a cone in the middle of the street like you see on Cornell campus. You have
those big orange cones that say, "State Law, you must stop when there is a pedestrian"
and that may sort of slow down traffic too, because it is almost like an obstacle course.
They have to.drive through without hitting the cone. So just a possibility.
Chairperson Wilcox — Thank you. Quick response. If we get through the environmental
review and we get to the next phase, which is review of the site plan for preliminary
approval, the applicant would have to study that issue as we talked about, I think, at
the very beginning. One of the issues that the applicant has to address is the fact that
that is a county road and we can't tell the county what to do on their road. I agree that
additional striping at a minimum is required so that not only do you simply have the
lane that is marked, but also the striping across it. So we will hope that the applicant
can work with the county, should we get to that point. Or the Town could work with
the county, to improve the safety there. I think we all agree that that is important.
Board Member Hoffmann — And in this case the county wanted to...
37
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
Chairperson Wilcox - The County has sent a letter saying it is important so they should
be willing to do what is necessary. Anybody else?
Hollis Erb, 118 Snyder Hill Road
First of all, I am very glad to see the board's concern about the sidewalk coming from
Mitchell Street and I think you are proposing very good ideas right now for that. I am
also very concerned about the crossing of, Pine, Tree Road, the pedestrian crossing
there. It is laughable to me to hear proponent talk about the center turn lane, as a
refuge for cars coming out when it is also potentially the only refuge for those poor
pedestrians coming across. It is not a nice three lanes to cross and that center turn
lane gets both the refuge traffic coming out plus a considerable backup of cars at times
waiting to turn in to the P &C parking lot in particular. Even going straight across.at 10
o'clock in the morning in a car, is not always easy from the driveway that is the one
straight across from between the bank and the current bowling alley that driveway and
straight across. Even in a car that can sometimes be difficult midmorning.
I wondered why there was so much parking that was going to be placed in this...
Chairperson. Wilcox - You are treading on site plan, Hollis, so...
Ms. Erb — What I was going to suggest was, I looked again at the picture on the wall
over there and I wonder why the building would have to be shifted to have some base
plantings if two of those parking spaces at different locations on the east wall bordering
Pine Tree, if two of the several parking spaces were simply taken instead for tree beds,
maybe would could have some of the tall columnar planting that would break the Pine
Tree Road vision of this building without having to shift anything. I don't think low
.border base plantings would be especially useful because as I understand it there is
going to be a berm to soften the appearance. And I think that we wouldn't see those
as much as.,..as I say, taking one or two of the .parking spaces and using them for the
trees to soften that size. I am just putting it into your.heads if I can.
I was a little surprised at the talk of trying to make the pedestrian I
crossings very
obvious so that the cars as well as the pedestrians would see it and yet have the
opening through the berm, if I understood it correctly, not align with the crossing walk
itself. I didn't quite understand that.
Chairperson Wilcox — I think, Bill, if you would just point that out.
Mr. Paladino — Right here. Here is the crosswalk to the south. People are crossing all
this pavement... it is much safer than.crossing all that area.
is
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
Ms. Erb — I appreciate that, thank you. It still seems. to me that it makes the crosswalk
less obvious than making the cut in the berm there and walking them down the berm to
a shorter distance across. I understand that that might take some of the planting, but
again, if Jt is pedestrian safety then it's just an idea to look at. I'm very pleased` to hear
a lot of consideration about the signs. I have never understood why companies work
so hard at having their logo. recognizable and 'then think they still have to have big
letters saying oh, by the way this Rite Aid logo is Rite Aid, for example. We already
know that there is a Rite Aid in the area. I hope that the lights are all going to be taken
care of.
Chairperson Wilcox — Thank you, Hollis.. Any further comments? Changes based upon
what we heard? I like Hollis's comments about the berm in the front of the building
along the road, with the plantings. The question is, will they hide any plantings along
the building at the base of the building?
Board Member Hoffmann - Not if the foundation plants are tall.
Chairperson Wilcox — Okay. Larry, I...
Board Member Hoffmann I should also add that along Pine Tree Road there will also
be some trees planted. I couldn't read what size of trees they'll be when they are first
planted, but those oaks and maples will get to be very bit and that will also help to
break up that fagade, but the fagade to the west that you will see from Mitchell Street
through that opening near that western -most driveway, that is going to be very bare
looking: So that needs foundation plantings almost more.
Chairperson Wilcox — Are you more concerned about the west side than the east side?
Board Member Hoffmann — No. I'm concerned about both the sides, but I don't want
us to forget the western side.
Chairperson Wilcox — Okay. Your pictures show that as you are coming east on Mitchell
Street up the hill if you will, the view through to Ides is pretty substantial. I suspect
that you will have a view as well of this building Larry?
Board Member Thayer moves the SEQR and Board Member Howe seconds the motion.
PB RESOLUTION NO. 2005 -098: SEQR, Rite Aid /Redevelopment of Judd Falls
Plaza, Preliminary Site Plan Approval and Special Permit, Tax Parcel No.'s 624=
3.2, 62 =1 -2.2. and 62 -14, 322 =350 Pine Tree Road and 930 and 946 Mitchell Street
MOTION made by Board Member Thayer, seconded by Board Member Howe.
39
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
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APPROVED
WHEREAS:
1. The Town of Ithaca Planning Board is considering Preliminary Site Plan Approval
and Special Permit for the proposed Rite Aid which., is Phase I of the
redevelopment of the Judd Falls Plaza properties located at 322 -350 Pine Tree
Road and 930 and 946 Mitchell Street, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No.'s 624-3.2,
62- 1 -2.2, and 62 -1 -1, Community Commercial Zone. The site includes the
existing Ides Bowling facility and several retail businesses in the building, as well
as two old houses, one fronting on Mitchell Street, the other well off of Mitchell
Street next to the cemetery. The proposal includes removing the existing .plaza
and houses to ultimately construct approximately 45,464 square feet of retail,
office and other related commercial uses in several new buildings, including a +/-
14, 564 square foot Rite Aid Pharmacy store in the first phase of development.
The project will also include new stormwater facilities, parking, landscaping, and
lighting. Susan Hamilton is the current owner; Ellicott Development Company for
1093 Group, LLC, is the applicant, and
2. It has been determined that the above - described actions would be a Type I
action, pursuant to the State Environmental Quality Review Act, 6 NYCRR Part
617, and Town of Ithaca Code, Chapter 148 — Environmental Quality Review,
because the proposed ' action involves the construction of more than 25,000
square feet of new non - residential development and more than 100 parking
spaces, and demolition of more than 25, 000 square feet of existing building area
(Town of Ithaca Code, Section 148 -5), and
3. In a letter dated September 12, 2005, the Planning Board proposed. to establish
itself as Lead Agency to coordinate the environmental review of the above -
referenced actions, and notified potential Involved and Interested agencies of its
intent to serve as Lead Agency, and
4. The Planning Board, at its meeting held on October 4, 2005, has reviewed and
accepted as adequate the Full Environmental Assessment Form (EAF) Part I
prepared by the applicant, Part ll of the EAF prepared by the Town Planning
staff, and has reviewed other application materials, including the a Stormwater
Management Report (including Sheets DA -1, DA -2, and DA -3, dated 8129105),
prepared by BL Companies, dated August 29, 2005; a Traffic Impact Study,
prepared by FRA Engineering, P. C., dated September 2005; .Rite Aid World Sign
Package, dated December 9, 2004; site plan drawings, entitled "Preliminary Site
Plan Submission, Rite Aid Pharmacy', including Sheet No's. AL -1, NL4, DM -1,
SP -1, GU -1, EC -1, LL -1, LP -1, and Detail Sheets DN4 through DN -7, all
prepared by BL Companies, with an issue date of August 29, 2005; Elevations,
prepared by RCS Architect PLLC, dated 9101105; and Phase I and Phase 11
general site plan drawings, prepared by RCS Architect PLLC, dated 8130105, and
other application materials, and
m
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 41 2005
APPROVED
51 The. Town Planning staff has recommended a negative determination of
environmental significance with respect to the proposed Site Plan Approval and
Special Permit,
NOW THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED:
That the Town of Ithaca Planning Board, having received no objections from
other Involved Agencies, hereby establishes itself as Lead Agency to coordinate the
environmental review of the above - described action;
AND BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED:
That the Town of Ithaca Planning Board hereby makes a negative determination
of environmental significance in accordance with the New York State Environmental
Quality Review Act for the above referenced actions as proposed and, therefore, a Draft
Environmental Impact Statement. will not be required.
The vote on the motion resulted as follows:
AYES: Wilcox, Hoffmann, Conneman, Mitrano, Thayer, Howe.
NAYS: None.
The motion was declared to be carried unanimously.
Chairperson Wilcox closes this segment of the meeting at 9:00 p.m.
PUBLIC HEARING
Consideration of Preliminary Site Plan Approval and Special Permit for the
proposed ,redevelopment of the Judd Falls Plaza properties located at 322 =350
Pine Tree Road and 930 and 946 Mitchell Street, Town_ of Ithaca Tax Parcel No.'s
62A1 3.22 62A1 2.2, and 62 -1 -1, Community Commercial Zone. The proposal
includes removing the existing plaza to construct a total of approximately 44,564
square feet of retail, office and other related commercial uses in. several new
buildings, including a +/- 14,564 square foot Rite Aid Pharmacy store in the first
phase of development. Future phases of development will consist of up to 30,000
square feet of additional retail, office, or other commercial. space. The project will
also include new stormwater facilities, parking, landscaping, and lighting. Susan
Hamilton, Owner; Ellicott Development Company for 1093 Group, LLC, Applicant;
William A. Paladino, Agent.
Chairperson Wilcox - Questions with regard to site plan that we did not cover in our 2.
hour environmental review?
41.
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
Board Member Howe — It is more a comment about Phase II, which I realize we are not
really focusing on tonight, but I will make it anyway.
Chairperson Wilcox Before you say it, let me just make sure the audience is clear.
With regard to the environmental review, we did concentrate on the potential buildout
of the entire site. Now that we are to site plan, we are only concentrating on Phase I.
Board Member Howe — I would hope that later on we would see a more creative site
plan that had more of a relationship of the buildings to one another instead of this big
parking lot in between the buildings to allow easier pedestrian access back and forth
between the buildings. So I would hope if Phase II comes before us, we would see a
different layout.
Chairperson Wilcox — The floor is open.
Board Member Conneman — I would say if the issues we discussed in terms of visual
affects and safety, visual being signs, and safety and the other things. that we have
discussed, it seems to me that we have laid out...what kind of information do you need
about our view of the preliminary site plan that we haven't given you?
Mr. Paladino — I think we touched on every topic. The only thing I saw in Jon's stuff
that we possibly didn't touch on is this area right here ... (not audible) ... its really the only
thing that I. saw that ... (not audible) ... I think we have directed everything else.
Chairperson Wilcox — Are you still working with Courtside?
Mr. Paladino — Correct.
Chairperson Wilcox — And the issue with Courtside is the parking spaces along their,
whichever side that is, that would be the south side I guess. Those spaces right now,
the existing spaces are partially on their property and partially on the Hamilton
property. There is an existing agreement between the Hamilton's and Courtside?
Mr. Paladino — Correct.
Chairperson Wilcox — Now those parking spaces exist, but aren't striped right now, if I
am not mistaken. In fact the gravel is pretty torn up through there. It is a mess and
nobody parks at a 90- degree angle to the building. Every one in a while I see someone
parked parallel to the building.
Mr. Paladino — Even though it does go on the adjacent property that would all be
repaired in our first phase. It will be repaired, striped, corrected.
42
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
Board Member Hoffmann — We have not talked about the lighting very much.
Chairperson Wilcox We have talked about it sufficiently to make a negative
determination of significance. He did commit that all lights. would be shielded, which
was potentially not what was shown on the material submitted.
Board Member Hoffmann — But that is something that we would want to add a
condition about:
Chairperson Wilcox— Its already in there. I said to Jon on the phone, this may set the
record for the longest draft resolution that I've ever seen. Mr. Barney, if you have not
read it yet', start now. It is exceptionally long. We know that we . have to add
something with regard to the County's 239 review. Anything else while Bill is sitting
there?
Board Member Hoffmann — I can't seem to find one of the papers that I have made a
note on.
Chairperson Wilcox — Bill, is there anything that you want to say at this point?
Mr. Paladino - No. I'm all set.
Chairperson Wilcox Why don't you take, a seat? I'll give the public a chance to. speak.
Chairperson Wilcox opens the public hearing at 9:06 p.m. and .invites members of the
public to address the board.
Ms. Erb = Again, I didn't mean to suggest only trees on the east facing side. I think the
very same 'thing should be done on the west facing side because I honestly don't
understand the need for quite so many parking spaces, especially given the fact that
there is a prominent drive - through. In addition, I as one of the board members also is,
I am really offended at having to have the 1 Hr. Photo and Food Mart sort of
advertising built into this signage on the building also. Its offensive. I'm very glad that
the lights are all going to be shielded and I'm glad that you are going for a big
detention pond right a way because we all know that all those detention ponds up there
never seem to quite work as well as they were supposed to. Thank-you.
Chairperson Wilcox with no other persons to speak, Chairperson Wilcox closes the
public hearing at 9.07 p.m.
Board Member Mitrano — John, what would it take for us to challenge that one strip of
signing that Ms. Erb just spoke about because while I can appreciate Mr. Paladino's
desire to have something like Food Mart up there, I actually agree with Eva's
43
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
assessment about it and Ms. Erb's assessment. I would love for it not to be part of the
plan, but is that...
Chairperson Wilcox — We have asked and we have stated in no uncertain terms that we
want signage that conforms with the zoning.
Board Member Conneman — And we would like more than that. I'm perfectly willing to
vote for the preliminary site plan approval, but if you come back with the same thing
you did before, Bill, I'm not going to vote for it.
Chairperson Wilcox Now, George, for you to ask for less'than what the zoning says,
you have to have a reason.
Board Member Conneman — My reason is that this is a community and we don't need a
big box store. We need something which would be on the edge of being if not
beautiful, better. than category 5.
Chairperson Wilcox — Now, here's the issue. I want to be very clear that the Town
Board sets the zoning requirements under which we operate. We cannot simply violate
or go against the zoning ordinances. We don't have that ability. We don't have that
discretion. The zoning says such and such, we have to abide by it. We have a Zoning
Board of Appeals for things like that. Therefore, if we have a very good reason other
than, I don't necessarily agree with your reason is I guess why I am saying this, we
have to have a very good reason to ask the or request the developer to do something
that is less substantial than the Zoning Ordinance.
Attorney Barney You have to have a good reason to compel. the developer. You don't
have to have as good a reason to request if the developer is willing to do it, then
certainly that is not as much of an issue. I think it is a question of compulsion. where
you have to have ... stick behind the determination. I have some difficulty with your
calculations, quite frankly, as I went through. First off, I think the canopy signs are
limited to 6 inches in height. As I look at this, they are working off an it -inch
dimension, I believe, on the GNC and the Food Mart. So I think that that is a problem.
The other thing is that the perimeter of the marquee is not shown. So you are limited
again to one square foot of sign for each perimeter foot of the marquee. The perimeter
of the marquee is shown with a couple of eq. I don't know. What does eq mean on
the dimension? If you look on the second page, which shows this curvature, what does
the eq mean on these dimensions down here and up here?
Mr. Oppewall — It is the same, but center.
Attorney Barney - What is the dimension?
Im
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
Mr. Oppewall (not audible)
Mr. Walker — Basically it has to be a foot on each side because:..
Attorney Barney — When it is scaled, it scales off to more like 3 feet on each side, The
problem is for us to calculate whether the signs even conform or not, we need to know
what that dimension is because we need to know what the perimeter of the canopy is.
If the perimeter is 12 feet and you limit it, you have 20 square feet of sign here. So it
is beyond the...
Mr. Oppewall — I don't have the. dimension with me off hand...(not audible)
Attorney Barney — So I think the next plan ought to show that dimension.
Mr. Kanter — Could I suggest though that.we may not even go there because I believe,
and John you can check this, but in terms of the number of signs, the way the sign law
is worded, it allows one wall signor projecting sign on each building or store frontage.
So I think. the two areas that say Rite Aid with the logo are covering those. Then it
talks about freestanding signs, which if you have two road frontages, two. entrances,
you can have two freestanding signs. Then it says, in lieu of any one or more of .the
signs permitted above, speaking of. the ones that I just mentioned, one or more
marquee, awning or canopy signs maybe substituted instead and then there are some
additional provisions for those. I am interpreting that to mean that you are not allowed
this canopy sign in addition to the two wall signs that have been proposed.
Attorney Barney — I could buy that.
Mr. Kanter — So the whole canopy sign would need a variance.
Attorney Barney — The other one that I have...
Chairperson Wilcox — Based upon the current reading, would violate the zoning.
Mr. Kanter - Yes
Attorney Barney- The sign law.
Board Member Mitrano — Jonathan, where in that interpretation would the word
pharmacy fall? As part of the main sign or a canopy sign ?.
Mr. Kanter — That is a good question, too. That's an interpretation maybe.
Edu
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
Attorney Barney — The other is the claim that the drive -in is a directional sign. That is
really a wall sign the way that that is put up there with another 17 -18 square feet. So
even if you were allowed to have that number of signs you are beginning to approach
the max in regard to the wall signs. I think you really need to come back with
something that is drastically reduced as to the number of signs. I think you need to
make a choice as to what you want.
Mr. Paladino — (not audible)
Attorney Barney - One wall sign or one projected sign on each building or store
frontage and one freestanding sign is what is permitted. You can substitute a marquee,
awning sign for one of the wall signs or one of the freestanding signs. You are allowed
to have a couple of freestanding signs, but I think when you add up all the number
signs, you have about 9 signs when at best I think you can 3 out of this if I am reading
it right.
Chairperson Wilcox — This board has made it, clear that going over the ... we made it
clear going over what is allowed certainly is not going to be considered. Others have
recommended that you consider less. John Barney has made it clear, I think, to
reiterate what we said to the signage. The issue here is one generally that we need to
make sure that we are consistent with the interpretation and two communicate that or
you need to in some way work with Jonathan to make sure that what you come back
with at best is consistent with the sign law and potentially even shows a reduction in
square footage and number of signs.
Mr. Paladino — I think that what we might be trying to do at that point is to have a
tradeoff between the size of the signage and possibly obtain a few more signs.
Chairperson Wilcox — We know it can be done. We went through this with Burger King.
Obviously they want signage and you want signage and we understand it. You are
going to push for signage and we are going to push back. Burger King and the
applicant and the agent said fine and you will eventually do the same thing, which is
fine.
Board Member Conneman — The issue; Bill is...
Board Member Hoffmann — Also the gas station.
Chairperson Wilcox — And the gas station to some extent.
Board Member Conneman — You can advertise in the newspaper, not on. the side of the
building. It would be a much more attractive building.
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
Chairperson Wilcox The other thing that we should point out is we are not treating
you any differently, than the gas station and Burger King and others that were in that
area.
Board Member Hoffmann — Actually I think I wanted to add to what George said in that
both the gas station, it's Citgo I think, and Burger King came in with plans from their
corporate sponsors. with the typical kind of signs and so on, but because we felt very
strongly that it was important to have these businesses fit into the neighborhood and
have them look as attractive as possible and the applicants were anxious to do that too.
They in fact went along with our wishes and they eliminated some of the signs.. They
were able to go back to their. sponsors and get approvals for smaller signs and so on.
The Burger King, in particular, they were very forthcoming in trying to live up to what
we were trying to do. So as you can see it is a very attractive place actually with very
few signs, but you still see it's obvious, a Burger King, and Ihas ots of plantings and
attractive grounds in general. They .saved some old trees, which are very nice to have
there now.
So I guess what I am saying is with some willingness and effort on the
applicant's part and on our part, one can come up with something that is pretty nice.
Mr. Paladino — Understandable.
Chairperson Wilcox — And still look like a Rite Aid.
that you wanted to mention at this point?
Attorney Barney Nope.
Mr. Barney, is there anything else
Chairperson Wilcox - Have you been through the resolution as drafted?
Attorney Barney — I have.
Chairperson, Wilcox — And you and or the other Jon, the assistant Town Attorney,
probably have some additional language to add at some point. Okay. Anything else
with regard to site plan review? Tracy, hold on for just a second if you can. I saw the
papers being... Is there anything else you wish to say at this point?
Mr. Paladino — No. Thank you.
Chairperson Wilcox — Would someone like to move the resolution as drafted?
Chairperson Wilcox moves the resolution and Board Member. Hoffmann seconds the
motion.
47
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES ..
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
Chairperson Wilcox— Jon or John,. I'm not sure who is going to go first.
Mr. Kanter — Well, one thing, I guess we need to figure out in condition c, something
about the walkway because this talks about the need to show details on the walkway
extension along Mitchell Street. Then d also talks about easement or other agreement
necessary for the walkway or the HSBC bank parcel. Those two conditions now if we
are going to change the approach for Phase I, need to be adjusted to reflect that.
Attorney Barney — We could say alternatively a revision showing the walkway going
northeasterly along the boundary line of the property or some other location on the...I
would decide what you want to do.
Chairperson Wilcox — We are going to try to cut across right there.
Mr. Paladino — We are going to carry it across there.
Chairperson Wilcox — We are trying to figure out the language in the resolution here.
So my assumption is that we are going to change c and possibly delete d..
Attorney Barney — I take it that you don't want to leave those in as one alternative.
You would just assume get rid of them all together.
Mr. Paladino — Correct. Just rewrite as what we are doing.
Mr. Kanter. But then I think we want to add something about direction for Phase II.
That obviously something different from this alignment.
Chairperson. Wilcox — Potentially that could
develops. It's not likely to, but it could.
Mr. Kanter — Its possible.
stay in 'Phase II depending upon how it
Attorney Barney - Could you simply say that the Planning Board reserves the right to
require relocation in conjunction with Phase II when plans are available as Phase II.
Mr. Paladino — I would like this written in as an acceptable alternative for .Phase II if
possible.
Attorney Barney - Beg pardon?
Mr. Paladino — I would like the ability, obviously, my discretion, too, to relocate this.
This walkway we are putting here and have this walkway as an acceptable alternative.
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
Mr. Kanter - I think there could be any number of possible routes so I think keeping it
more general like John is saying would allow the board to look at that in Phase II.
Chairperson Wilcox — Let me hear the wording that is being proposed.
Attorney Barney — It would be a following sentence that said that the Planning Board
would reserve the right to require relocation if appropriate at the time of plans for
Phase II are available and an application is being submitted.for approval.. So that if at
that point in time the plans indicate that you may want to have it in a different location
then you haven't closed yourself from being able to require it as part of that approval
process. By the same token, you, have the right at any time to request. a modification
of site plan to relocate it at any place you want to put it. This board may or may not
agree that it is a better location.
Chairperson Wilcox — Eva, you are all set? Okay with that?
Board Member Hoffmann — Yes.
Mr. Kanter — I guess a needs to be slightly revised to take away reference to HSBC
bank at this point. This is talking about construction, maintenance, repairs of the
walkway.
Chairperson Wilcox - Bill, you have seen the resolution?
Mr. Paladino — I have it right here.
Chairperson Wilcox —Okay. Good.
Mr. Paladino — If we could go back to that other one, I would like to say where it gets
relocated to. I want this approved as an acceptable alternative to what we are doing. I
don't want to come back later in Phase II and have the board say, well no, where you
place it whether it be you or other people on the board at such time...
Attorney Barney — I don't know how the board could commit to that without knowing
what you are going to do in Phase II. It's premature at this juncture. The board, I
think, it's not likely to be unreasonable and they can't be unreasonable. The law
doesn't permit them to be that way. To say that that is an acceptable alternative,
suppose you are putting a building down in the middle of it. Its just not appropriate
thing for them to agree to at this juncture unless you want to come in and go back and
do your plans for Phase II and bring them in and then they will tell if you they accept it
or not.
..
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
Mr.. Kanter - We also wouldn't know if it was acceptable until we saw grading details
and that type of thing. I mean if you wanted to go through that for final approval
knowing that you might not ever build it then you could. do that.
Mr. Paladino — No, I'll leave it the way that it is.
Chairperson Wilcox So we modified condition a to take out the reference to HSBC
Bank.
Mr. Kanter — Or combination.
Chairperson Wilcox -What else do we have?
Mr. Paladino — Do we have to include a bicycle rack:..g?
Mr. Kanter — I was maybe thinking of saying near the entrance to the Rite Aid building
or something more specific.
Chairperson Wilcox - Put a bicycle rack in the right place.
Mr. Paladino - Okay.
Mr. Kanter — What about Eva's suggestion for tree preservation at the site of the
building demolition? You probably want to put something in about that.
Board Member Hoffmann — Since the papers we got from them seem to indicate
something different about grass seeding and so on. Could I get some help in
formulating how to put that in?
Mr. Kanter — Something like submission of a tree preservation plan showing the
preservation of existing trees and shrubs to the extent practicable around the house
fronting on...you are talking about the one facing on Mitchell Street, right?
Chairperson Wilcox — Actually both?
Mr. Kanter — So around both houses to be demolished.
Chairperson Wilcox — There were some significant pine trees of some sort.
Board Member Hoffmann — And actually all along the western boundary of the parcel
there are big trees. I couldn't quite tell where the boundary was out on the site, but...
Chairperson Wilcox — Oh, against the cemetery.
50
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
Board Member Hoffmann - Both of them along the northern and the western boundary
out in that corner and right around the house.
Mr. Kanter — Of course with the stormwater pond, you know, some of those if they are
on the.Rite Aid property some of those may have to go.
Board. Member Hoffmann Yes, I understand that. So with the wording you had plus
naming the areas, would that take care of it?
Mr. Kanter — I think so.
Board Member Hoffmann — And where would that go? Would that be an additional
condition?
Mr. Kanter — Yeah, it would be an additional condition.
Chairperson Wilcox — For those of you who are keeping score that would be condition s.
Mr. Kanter — Again, just to remind the board, all these conditions as drafted unless
otherwise specified are prior to final site plan approval because it has to come back
before the board to see them.
Chairperson Wilcox — Correct.
Mr. Kanter — I have written a couple of things to address the County letter, not so much
the overriding... but the specifics, which Bill mentioned that he already would do, is
addition of crosswalk in the parking lot between the Rite Aid building entrance and the
Pine Tree Road walkway. The other one was, okay this is the traffic signal. Evaluate
the need and benefit of a traffic signal and or an enhanced pedestrian crossing at the
intersection of Pine Tree Road with the aligned access drives to East Hill Plaza and the
Rite Aid site. That I think was kind of paralleling wording the County had in their letter.
Chairperson Wilcox - Read that for me one more time, Jon.
Mr. Kanter — I guess I should stretch it out a little bit more, applicant shall evaluate the
need and benefit of a traffic signal and or an enhanced pedestrian crossing at the
intersection of Pine Tree Road with the aligned access drives to East Hill Plaza and the
Rite Aid site.
Chairperson Wilcox — Thank you. You are right. That is consistent with the language in
the County 239 review. You don't have a problem with that?
51
Board Member Hoffmann — Nope.
Chairperson Wilcox — Neither do I.
Attorney Barney — Does Bill have a problem with it?
Mr. Paladino — With just considering it?
now.
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
No. Our study pretty much considers it right
Mr. Kanter — I think the intent of it would be to come back with something that the
board would be comfortable with in terms of enhanced pedestrian safety at that
crosswalk area that we would then recommend to the County to implement.
Chairperson Wilcox — Yes..
Mr. Paladino - It is in the items that. we discussed already enhancing the...
Mr. Kanter — It maybe that the applicant may be responsible for the cost of that
improvement, but it would obviously have to approved by the County because it is a
County road.
Chairperson Wilcox — Let me put a little pressure on you, Bill. If we in some way don't
get the County to go along, you need a supermajority, which is 5 votes. You know that
you only have a 6- person board because Kevin Talty is excused. I won't prejudge what
this board is going to do, but 5 out of 6 could be a hurdle. Four out of 6 would be
much easier and we wouldn't .need that supermajority if we could some way appease
the County and also approve the plan and pedestrian access. I'm not twisting their
arm..
Mr. Paladino As long as they are reasonable.
Attorney Barney — Suspension bridge.
Chairperson, Wilcox — There are other references, at least one other reference to HSBC
Bank, which is in condition r. I think that can be...
Mr. Kanter — That had to do with vehicular access and I think we need to keep that in
there.
Chairperson Wilcox — Okay. I'm sorry. Thank you very much.
Attorney Barney —
Board.
I would add to that, though, review and approval by the Planning
52
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
Mr. Kanter — Again it was intended to be prior to final site plan approval.
Chairperson Wilcox — We have also parts of the resolution having to do with parking to
be located in the front yard issue and 24 spaces and the required side yard. Then
finally are the conditions with special permit. Any issues? Okay. Eva, are you all set ?.
Board Member Hoffmann Do we need to add anything about the foundation plantings
that we talked about?
Mr. Kanter — Yes.
Chairperson Wilcox — The landscaping plan is pretty good, so condition t. How do you
want to phrase it, Eva?
Board Member Hoffmann That we would like to see foundation plantings on the
eastern and western facades of the building to soften the impact of the large flat
surfaces.
Chairperson Wilcox — Jon is nodding his head.
Board Member Hoffmann — Especially including tall, columnar evergreen plants.
Chairperson Wilcox — The question. is, how high do you want them to grow? Do you
want them to cover the building? Hide the building?
Board Member Hoffmann — No, but if you don't have something- that makes sort of, a
vertical line. to break up this long horizontal line, its not going to have any effect.
Chairperson Wilcox — All right. I'm okay with that change. Anything else that we talked
about that we need to cover in the resolution? Okay. John and Jon are all set? Dan,
you're all set at this point?.
With no further discussion, Chairperson Wilcox calls for a vote on the motion.
PB RESOLUTION NO. 2005 -099: Rite Aid /Redevelopment of Judd Falls Plaza,
Preliminary Site Plan Approval and Special Permit, Tax Parcel No.'s 62 =1 -3.2, 62 -1-
2.2, and 62 -14, 322 =350 Pine Tree Rd. and 930 and 946 Mitchell St.
MOTION made by Chairperson Wilcox, seconded by Board Member Hoffmann-
WHEREAS:
1. This action is Consideration of Preliminary Site Plan Approval and Special Permit
. for the proposed Rite Aid which is Phase I of the redevelopment of the Judd Falls
53
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
Plaza properties located at 322 -350 Pine Tree Road and 930 and 946 Mitchell
Street, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No.'s 624-3.2, 62- 1 -2.2, and 624-1,
Community Commercial Zone. The site includes the existing Ides Bowling facility
and several retail businesses in the building, as well as two old houses, one
fronting on Mitchell Street, the other well off of Mitchell Street next to the
cemetery.. The proposal includes removing the existing plaza and houses to
ultimately construct approximately 45,464 square feet of retail, office and other
related commercial uses in several new buildings, including a +/- 14,564 square
foot Rite Aid Pharmacy store in the first phase of development. The project will
also include new stormwater facilities, parking, landscaping, and lighting. Susan
Hamilton is the current owner; Ellicott Development Company for 1093 Group,
LLC, is the applicant, and
2. This is a Type I Action for which the Town of Ithaca Planning Board, acting as
lead agency in environmental review with respect to Site Plan Approval and
Special Permit has, on October 4, 2005, made a negative determination of
environmental significance,. after having reviewed and accepted as adequate a
Full Environmental Assessment Form Part 1, submitted by the applicant, a Part II
prepared by Town Planning staff, and other application materials, and
31 The Planning Board, at a Public Hearing held on October 4, 2005, has reviewed
and accepted as adequate a Stormwater Management Report (including Sheets
DA4, DA -2, and DA -3, dated 8129105), prepared by BL Companies, dated
August 29, 2005; a Traffic Impact Study, prepared by FRA Engineering, P.C.,
dated September. 2005; Rite Aid World Sign Package, dated December 9, 2004;
site plan drawings, entitled "Preliminary Site Plan Submission, Rite Aid
Pharmacy'; including Sheet No's. AL -1, NL -1, DM -1, SP4, GU4, EC -1, LL -1,
LP4, and Detail Sheets DN -1 through DN -7, all prepared by BL Companies, with
an issue date of August 29, 2005 Elevations, prepared. by RCS Architect PLLC,
dated 9101105; and Phase I and Phase 11 general site plan drawings, prepared by
RCS Architect PLLC, dated 8130105, and other application materials,
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED:
1. That the Town of Ithaca Planning Board hereby grants Preliminary Site Plan
Approval for the proposed Rite Aid which is Phase I of the redevelopment of the
Judd Falls Plaza properties located at 322 -350 Pine Tree Road and 930 and 946
Mitchell Street, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No.'s 62- 1 -3.2, 62- 1 -2.2, and 6244,
as described in the following application materials: Stormwater Management
Report (including Sheets DA -1, DA -2, and DA -3, dated 8129105), prepared by BL
Companies, dated August 29, 2005; a Traffic Impact Study, prepared by FRA
Engineering, P.C., dated September 2005; Rite Aid World Sign Package, dated
December 9, 2004; site plan drawings, entitled "Preliminary Site Plan
Submission, Rite Aid Pharmacy'; including Sheet No's. AL -1, NL4, DM -1, SP -1,
GU -11 EC -1, LL -1, LP -1, and Detail Sheets DN -1 through DN -7, all prepared by
BL Companies, with an issue date of August 29, 2005, and Elevations, prepared
54
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
by RCS Architect PLLC, dated 9101105 - (Phase I and Phase ll general site plan
drawings, prepared by RCS Architect PLLC, dated 8130105 are general in nature
and referenced- herein only for informational purposes), subject to the following
conditions to be accomplished prior to Final Site Plan Approval, unless otherwise
noted:
a. Submission of evidence that the Ithaca City Fire Department has
approved the adequacy of access to the site and building for fire and
emergency service equipment, and
b. Revision of the Grading and Utilities Plan (GU -1) to show the location of
any existing or proposed fire or other emergency zones, and the location
of any fire hydrants on or accessible to the site, and
C. Submission of revised plans showing the details of the proposed walkway
extension along Mitchell Street and easterly substantially adjacent to the
south side of the westerly driveway into the parking lot and then northerly
through the parking lot to the south side of the building, including grading,
base and surface materials, dimensions, etc., and
d. Construction, maintenance and repairs of the above- referenced walkway
shall be the responsibility of Ellicott Development Co.11093 Group LLC or
subsequent owner. Submission of a draft maintenance agreement
relating to the walkway shall be submitted. to the Planning Board for review
and approval, and
e. Submission of floor plans showing the proposed layout of the Rite Aid
building, and
f. Revision of the site plan (SP -1) to include a bicycle rack near the entrance
of the Rite Aid building, and
g. Revision of the lighting plan and lighting details to replace the proposed
fixtures with fully- shielded light fixtures so that no light rays are emitted by
the installed fixture at angles above the horizontal plane, to minimize
excessive glare and light trespass, and
h. Submission of revised sign details and plans to conform to all relevant
sections of Chapter 221 of the Town of Ithaca Code regarding "Signs".
Examples of such revisions shall include, but not necessarily be limited to
the following: reduction of the height of the freestanding signs to the
required 20 foot maximum height, reduction in the area of the panels on
the freestanding signs to not exceed the maximum permitted area of 50
square feet, and reduction in the number and area of wall signs and
canopy signs, and
55
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
i. Revision of applicable plans (including Drainage Plans DA -1 and DA -2,
Grading and Utilities Plan GU -1, and Demolition Plan DM4) to show the
completion of the stormwater pond in its final configuration to its full Phase
11 size during the Phase 1 construction phase to . minimize the potential for
erosion and disturbance. The site plan shows a sanitary sewer line (within
the Phase 11 pond expansion area) serving the house in the northwest
corner of the property. The demolition of the house and removal of the
sewer line shall be clearly identified as part of Phase I re- development,
and the storm water pond shall be constructed to its full Phase 11 size
during the construction of Phase 1.
j. Submission of a detailed planting plan for the stormwater pond, and
k. Submission of a maintenance plan for the stormwater pond, and
1. Revision of the Site Plan SP -1 labeling the existing walkway along Pine
Tree Road to remain, and showing the existing crosswalk at Pine Tree
Road just north of the East Hill Plaza entrance to remain, and.
M, Submission of design development drawings for all buildings and
construction details of all other proposed structures, roads, water /sewer
facilities, and other improvements, including, but not limited to,
specifications for water lines, including locations and descriptions of
mains, valves, hydrants, appurtenances, etc., and profiles and
specifications for sanitary sewers and storm drainage facilities, including
locations and descriptions of pipes, manholes, and other facilities, and
n. Submission of all final site plan drawings, revised as required above, each
having the name and seal of each registered land surveyor, engineer,
architect, or landscape architect who prepared any of the site plan
materials, including the topographic and boundary survey, drainage plans,
etc., and
o. Submission of record of application for and approval status of all
necessary permits from county, state, and /or federal agencies, or
documentation that no such approvals are required, prior to issuance of
any building or demolition permits, and
p. Tax Parcel No's: 62 -1 -1, 62 -1 -2.2 and 62 -1 -3.2 shall be consolidated into
one tax parcel prior to issuance of any certificate of occupancy.
Submission to the Planning Department of documentation of the request
for said consolidation .to the Tompkins County Assessment Office shall be
adequate to fulfill this condition, and
56
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 41 2005
APPROVED
r. Submission of draft easement agreements for vehicular cross- access
between the Rite Aid, Courtside, and HSBC Bank parcels for review and
approval by the Planning Board, and
s. Addition of a crosswalk in the parking lot between the Rite Aid building
entrance and Pine Tree Road walkway, and
t. The applicant shall evaluate the need and benefit of a traffic signal and /or
enhanced pedestrian crossing at the intersection of Pine Tree Road with
the aligned access drives to East Hill Plaza and Rite Aid site, and
U. Submission of a Tree Preservation Plan or revised Landscaping Plan
showing preservation of 'existing trees and shrubs, to the extent
practicable, around both houses to be demolished, and
V, Submission of planting detail and cross - section of bermed planting strip
fronting on Mitchell Street, and
W, Revision of the Landscaping Plan to include foundation plantings on the
eastern and western sides of the Rite Aid building, including tall, columnar
evergreen plantings.
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED:
1. That the Planning Board hereby authorizes 19 parking. spaces (Spaces labeled
24 through 42 as shown on Drawing SP4 Site Plan and other drawings) to be
located in the required front yard, and 24 parking spaces (Spaces labeled 43
through 66 as shown on Drawing SP4 Site Plan and other drawings) to be
located in the required side yard on the south side pursuant to Section 2.70-
227(B)(3) of the Town of Ithaca, Code, finding that.
a. The particular use, nature, and location of the proposed Rite Aid project
and building requires that parking be located in the front yard and south
side yard; and
b. It is not practicable to limit parking to areas outside the required front and
side yards; and
C, Parking in. such yards does not significantly adversely
properties or the character of the neighborhood becaus
abuts Pine Tree Road, which is a heavily traveled road,
East Hill Plaza Shopping Center is located across Pine
the front yard area on the. Rite Aid site, and the south side
to the developed HSBC Bank site; and
d. No such parking will occur in any buffer areas; and
affect adjacent
e the front yard
and the existing
Tree Road from
yard is adjacent
57
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
21 That the Planning Board hereby authorizes the reduction. of the size of the
parking spaces from the normally required 180 square feet to the 9 feet by 18
feet (162 square feet) shown on. the Site Plan SP -1, pursuant to Section 270 -
227(A)(4) of the Town of Ithaca Code, finding that such reduction will not have an
adverse affect on the project, on. the surrounding properties, or on the
neighborhood, and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED:
That the Planning Board hereby grants a Special Permit for the Rite Aid (Phase I)
portion of the Judd Falls Redevelopment project, determining that
a. the health, safety, morals and general welfare of the community, in
harmony with the general purpose of the Town of Ithaca Zoning Code and
the specific purposes,. are being promoted, and
b. the premises are reasonably adapted to the proposed use, and such use
will fill a neighborhood or community need, and
C. the proposed .use and the location and design of proposed structures are
consistent with the character of the district in which they are. located, and
d. the proposed use will not be detrimental to the general amenity or
neighborhood character in amounts sufficient to devaluate neighboring
property or seriously inconvenience neighboring inhabitants, and
e, operations in connection with the proposed use will not be more
objectionable to nearby properties by reason of noise, fumes, vibrations,
illumination, or other public nuisance, than the operation of any permitted
use in the zone in which the use is located, and
f. community infrastructure and services are of adequate capacity to
accommodate the proposed use, and
g. the proposed use, facility design, and site layout comply with all of the
provisions of the Town of Ithaca Zoning Code, and to the extent
considered by the Planning Board, with other regulations of the Town, and
with the Town of Ithaca Comprehensive Plan, and
h. the proposed access and egress for all structures and uses is safely
designed and the site layout provides adequate access for emergency
vehicles, and
MEOO
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
i. the general effect of the proposed use upon the community as a whole is
not detrimental to the health, safety and general welfare of the community,
and
j. the lot area and access are sufficient for the proposed use, and
k. natural surface water drainage is adequately managed in accordance with
good engineering practices, and existing drainage ways are not altered in
a manner that adversely affects other properties, and
1. to the extent reasonably deemed relevant by the Planning Board, the
proposed use or structure complies with all the criteria applicable to site
plan review set forth in the Town of Ithaca Zoning Code.
The vote on the motion resulted as follows:
AYES: Wilcox, Hoffmann, Conneman, Mitrano, Thayer, Howe,
NAYS: None..
The motion was declared to be carried unanimously.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
PB RESOLUTION NO. 2005 =100: Approval of Minutes
MOTION by Chairperson Wilcox, seconded by Board Member Howe.
RESOLVED, that the Planning Board does hereby approve and adopts the September
20, 2005 minutes as the official minutes of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board for the
said meeting as presented with corrections.
The vote on the motion resulted as follows:
AYES: Wilcox, Conneman, Mitrano, Thayer, Howe.
NAYS: None.
ABSENT. Hoffmann
The vote on the motion was carried.
OTHER BUSINESS
The board discusses canceling the October 18, 2005 Planning Board meeting.
59
PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
OCTOBER 4, 2005
APPROVED
PB RESOLUTION NO. 2005 -101: Cancellation of October 18, 2005 Planning Board
Meeting
MOTION made by Board Member Thayer, seconded by Board Member Conneman.
BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board hereby cancels the October
18; 2005 meeting.
The vote on the motion resulted as follows:
AYES: Wilcox, ,Conneman, Thayer, Howe, Mitrano
NAYS: None.
ABSENT: Hoffmann
The motion was declared to be carried.
Mr. Kanter informs the board that the Transportation GEIS lead agency intent letter had
been sent out to involved and interested agencies. He explained he attended the City
Planning and Development Board questioned why the Town was the lead .agency and
not the City. The intent of the project is to involve all agencies and it is not a Town
project, but a regional planning effort. Mr. Kanter thought it would be helpful to send a
follow up letter from the Planning Board Chair to the City Planning Board Chair
indicating that the Town wants to work closely with the City.
The board did not have a problem with sending the letter.
AD30URNMENT
Chairperson Wilcox adjourns the October 4, 2005 Planning Board meeting at 9138 p.m.
R 1p ctfully somitted,
arrie Coates Whitmore
Deputy Town Clerk
TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD
215 North Tioga Street
Ithaca, New York 14850
Tuesday, October 4, 2005
AGENDA
7:00 P.M. Persons to be heard (no more than five minutes).
7:05 P.M. SEQR Determination: Rite Aid Pharmacy / Judd Falls Plaza Redevelopment, 322 -350
Pine Tree Road and 930 and 946 Mitchell Street. .
7:10 P.M. PUBLIC HEARING: Consideration of Preliminary Site Plan Approval and Special
Permit for the proposed redevelopment of the Judd Falls Plaza properties located at 322-
350 Pine Tree Road and 930 and 946 Mitchell Street, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No.'s
62 -1- 3.2,62- 1 -2.2, and 62 -1 -1, Community Commercial Zone. The proposal includes
removing the existing plaza to construct a total of approximately 44,564 square feet of
retail, office and other related commercial uses in several new buildings, including a +/-
1.4,564 square foot Rite Aid Pharmacy store in the first phase of development. Future
phases of development will consist of up to 30,000 square feet of additional retail, office,
or other commercial space. The project will also include new stormwater facilities,
parking, landscaping, and lighting.. Susan Hamilton, Owner; Ellicott Development
Company for 1093 Group, LLC, Applicant; William A. Paladino, Agent.
4. Persons to be heard (continued from beginning of meeting if necessary).
51 . Approval of Minutes: September 20, 2005.
6.' Other Business:
7, Adjournment.
Jonathan Kanter, AICP
Director of Planning
273 -1747
NOTE: IF ANY MEMBER OF THE PLANNING BOARD IS UNABLE TO ATTEND, PLEASE NOTIFY
SANDY POLCE AT 273 -1747.
(A quorum of four (4) members is necessary to conduct Planning Board business.)
TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD
NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARINGS
Tuesday, October 4, 2005
By direction of the Chairperson of the Planning Board, NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that a Public Hearing
will be held by the Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca on Tuesday, October 4, 2005, at 215 North Tioga
Street, Ithaca, N.Y., at the following time and on the following matter:
7:10 P.M. Consideration of Preliminary Site Plan Approval and Special Permit for the proposed
redevelopment of the Judd Falls Plaza properties located at 322 -350 Pine Tree Road and
930 and 946 Mitchell Street, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No.'s 62- 1 -3.2, 62- 1 -2.2, and 62-
1 -1, Community Commercial Zone.. The proposal includes removing the existing plaza
to construct a total of approximately 44,564 square feet of retail, office and other related
commercial uses in several new buildings, including a +/- 14,564 square foot Rite Aid
Pharmacy store in the first phase of development. Future phases of development will
consist of up to 30,000 square feet of additional retail, office, or other commercial space.
The project will also include new stormwater facilities, parking, landscaping, and
lighting. Susan Hamilton, Owner; Ellicott Development Company for 1093 Group, LLC,
Applicant; William A. Paladino, Agent.
Said Planning Board will at said times and said place hear all persons in support of such matters or objections
thereto. Persons may appear by agent or in person. Individuals with visual impairments, hearing
impairments or other special needs, will be provided with. assistance as necessary, upon request. Persons
desiring assistance must make such a request not less than 48 hours prior to the time of the public hearings.
Jonathan Kanter; AICP.
Director of Planning
273 -1747
Dated: Monday, September 26, 2005
Publish: Wednesday, September 28, 2005
�sday,�September�2!
�� � �§
-- �,
TOWN OF ITHACA
PLANNING BOARD
SIGWIN SHEET
DATE: October 4, 2005
(PLEASE PRINT TO ENSURE ACCURACY IN OFFICIAL MINUTES)
PLEASE PRINT NAME PLEASE PRINT ADDRESS /AFFILIATION
�ro �f yo;�c
r.
AFFIDAVIT OF POSTING AND PUBLICATION
I, Sandra Polce being duly sworn, depose and say that I am a Senior Typist for the Town of
Ithaca, Tompkins County, New York; that the following Notice has been duly posted on the sign
board of the Town of Ithaca and that said Notice has been duly published in the local newspaper,
The Ithaca Journal.
Notice of Public Hearings to be held by the Town of Ithaca Planning Board in the Town of Ithaca
Town Hall, 215 North Tiog Street, Ithaca, New York, on Tuesday, October 4, 2005
commencing at 7:00 P.M., as per attached.
Location of Sign Board used for Posting: Town Clerk Sign Board — 215 North Tioga Street.
Date of Posting: September 26, 2005
Date of Publication: September 28, 2005
Sandra Polce, Senior Typist
Town of Ithaca
STATE OF NEW YORK) SS:
COUNTY OF TOMPKINS)
Sworn to and subscribed before me this 28th day of September 2005.
Notary Public
CONNIE F. CLARK
Notary Public, State of New York
No. 01 CL6052878
Qualified in Tompkins County
Commission Expires December 26, 20 04