HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB Minutes 2001-04-17TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD FILE
TUESDAY, APRIL 17, 2001 DATE , i��Z, '
The Town of Ithaca Planning Board met in regular session on Tuesday, ApriI17, 2001, in Town Hall,
215 North Tioga, Ithaca, New York, at 7:30 p.m.
PRESENT: Fred Wilcox, Chairperson; Eva Hoffmann, Board Member; George Conneman, Board
Member; Tracy Mitrano, Board Member; Larry Thayer, Board Member; Rod Howe, Board Member;
John Barney, Attorney for the Town; Jon Kanter, Director of Planning; Dan Walker, Director of
Engineering; Susan Ritter, Assistant Town Planner; Mike Smith, Environmental Planner,
ALSO PRESENT: Martha Armstrong, 766 Elm Street Extension; Mike Carpenter, 192 Van Dorn
Road South; Bill Goodman, Buffalo NY; Tenda Chitewere, 102 Rachel Carson Way,
Chairperson Wilcox declared the meeting duly opened at 7:33 p.m.
Chairperson Wilcox read the Fire Exit Regulations to those assembled, as required by the New York
State Department of State, Office of Fire Prevention and Control.
AGENDA ITEM: PERSONS TO BE HEARD,
Chairperson Wilcox opened this segment of the meeting at 7:33 p.m. With no persons present to be
heard, Chairperson Wilcox closed this segment of the meeting at 7 :34 p.m.
AGENDA ITEM: OTHER BUSINESS:
Chairperson Wilcox - Councilwoman Russell sent a letter to Barbara Mink outlining the Town's
position on the communication towers issue.
Did Rogan's Corners appear before the Zoning Board of Appeals?
Mr. Smith - No. They are waiting until they receive approval from the Planning Board,
Chairperson Wilcox - Do we have a new board member?
Mr. Kanter - Yes. The Town Board appointed Kevin Talty at their last meeting. Mr. Talty had a good
interview with the Interview Committee,
AGENDA ITEM: Preliminary discussion
adequacy for public review and comment
the proposed Special Land Use District
EcoVillage property, and the proposed
regarding determination of completeness and
of the Generic Environmental Impact Statement for
(SLUD) amendment to be applied to the overall
development of a Second Neighborhood Group
consisting of 30 ± dwelling units and a common house, located off of Mecklenburg Road at
Rachel Carson Way (a private drive), on Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No.'s 28. -1 -26.2 and 28.-1-
26.8, consisting of a total of 176 ± acres. EcoVillage at Ithaca, Owner /Applicant; Rod Lambert,
Agent.
PLANNING BOARD PAGE 2 APRIL 17, 2001
APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - MAY 1, 2001 -APPROVED -APPROVED - APPROVED
Chairperson Wilcox opened this segment of the meeting at 7:37 p.m.
Kathy Wolf, Trowbridge & Wolf - We have assisted EcoVillage in the preparation of the GEIS
(Generic Environmental Impact Statement). The GEIS describes and analyzes the anticipated
impacts of the ultimate master plan. They are proposing to undertake a second neighborhood group.
They have also projected what the full project build out would be.
The traffic counts were taken today. The analysis will be completed this week and submitted to the
Town.
Rod Lambert, 122 Rachel Carson Way - Rachel Carson Way is the main artery that supports the
neighborhoods. The first neighborhood has been complete. The second neighborhood will be built to
the immediate west of the first neighborhood. The property to the east of the first neighborhood is the
land that has been given to the Finger Lakes Land Trust. We are farming on a portion of the land.
The property was studied carefully over a number of years. The area best for farming is to the east
and north of the first neighborhood. We are building future neighborhoods to the south and west.
The second neighborhood is being planned in two phases. We will build the first phase, the western
half, first. We will then build the second half. It is the style of building called co- housing. We try to
build the community before we build the buildings. It is not developer driven. It is membership
driven. The houses in the first neighborhood group were 950 square feet to 1650 square feet. The
second neighborhood would like smaller footprints, which will be 600 square feet to 1500 square feet.
A great deal of effort has been made in the second neighborhood to bring it on-line in a more
affordable manner.
We have outlined future neighborhoods. We have set aside the area where we would like future
neighborhoods. We want to be able to respond to what is ahead. We might go to a different format.
The typical number of units would not change. There would be a maximum of 150 units.
The proposal is to set aside to the immediate west of the second neighborhood a parcel of land as a
natural area. We are not contiguous with the Unique Natural Area, but we are very close to it. The
remaining land would remain agricultural.
We have improved the circulation of the site within the second neighborhood. It does have an
emergency access road through the neighborhood. The intention is to work with stabilized walkways
and stabilized roadways. We do not want an everyday access for vehicles. Emergency vehicles and
persons with disabilities will be able to drive into the site.
The fire department access to a dry hydrant is to south near the pond. The parking lots are placed to
the north of the neighborhood. The Common House is in the center of the neighborhood. There is a
view gap immediately to the south to provide views. There is more community space placed central.
There are a similar number of units in the second neighborhood.
The sewer lines would be coming in from the bottom of the site. It would be a gravity fed system.
The land is such that a ball would roll from top left to bottom right. The site water is planned to be
moved exclusively to the pond. The pond is a fire - fighting tool. It is an important addition.
PLANNING BOARD PAGE 3 APRIL 1i, 2001
APPROVED -APPROVED -APPROVED -MAY 11 2001 -APPROVED -APPROVED -APPROVED
Board Member Hoffmann - What is the bio- retention located in the central area between the two
roads?
Mr. Lambert - It would be a garden area. The area is slated for playgrounds and gardens. The notion
is to retain site water so that there is some deposition of material carried in the flows. This prevents
silting of the pond.
Board Member Hoffmann - Is it compatible with the use of the general area as a play area and
community space?
David Herrick, TG Miller - The idea of combining a filtering technique for storm water with vegetation
is not uncommon. It has not been utilized extensively in our region. It is a practice that has been
proven in use in other areas of the country. There are limited impervious surfaces. We would be
able to show the function when we come back before the board with advanced drawings. Our
concept with the storm water is to protect the quality of the pond. It is used for contact recreation. It
has some irrigation potential. We want to keep the quality of water coming in as high as we can. The
peak flow mitigation will also be handled to a great extent with those practices. There will be some
expectation to modify the existing pond so that the development of SONG (second neighborhood
group) will not show higher rates of discharges over the pond embankment.
Our second recommendation for the larger picture is to look at smaller ponds instead of large water
bodies that require constant inflow. Fluctuation in levels does occur in the pond because the
watershed above it is not very extensive. It is only 20 acres. We could use smaller unique
constructed wetlands.
The sanitary infrastructure is straightforward. There are a couple of routing opportunities to get from
the existing eight inch Town line over to SONG. We will be working with Mr. Walker on the sewer
lines. The expectation is that the lines would be donated to the Town.
I was surprised to learn that the consumption of FROG (first residence group) was less than half of
what I had predicted it would be. My estimates of consumption for FROG I thought were low. The
historical data shows it is half of what I had predicted. The situation is that our initial design of the
pump station and distribution lines and pressure storage will serve SONG without modification or
impacts on the Town infrastructure. We will need additional pressure storage tank within some of the
buildings.
SONG is consistent with the original design. There is a larger issue for subsequent groups regarding
water and fire protection. In the GEIS we do discuss what would be required from the technical
prospective to provide the customary municipal system. We would be looking at an elevated tank on
site or further to the west or a traditional ground based tank. Both scenarios are problematic from a
financial standpoint. The development of up to five neighborhood groups would require modifications.
Mr. Lambert mentioned that SONG looked at access to the site. We have been working with the Fire
Department regarding access. We are using stabilized soils. There are generous widths on the
walkways. The 14 foot width of stabilized soil would support the emergency vehicles, but have a
much narrower active walkway of about 6 to 8 feet wide. They would also like to develop an
PLANNING BOARD PAGE 4 APRIL 17, 2001
APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - MAY 11 2001 - APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED
additional dry hydrant on the west side of the pond. There are currently dry hydrants on the east side
of the pond. A similar detail would be built on the west side of the pond with the access to it on a
pumper vehicle. There would then be a dedicated dry fire water supply line.
The SONG site plan is more spacious than FROG. The Fire Department recognized it as a benefit in
their ability to localize and protect adjacent structures if one does catch fire.
Ms. Wolf - There were five categories identified as part of the scoping document as being areas of
potential environmental impacts. The first is traffic and transportation. The second is storm water
management. Third are community services. The fourth is community character and the fifth is
natural resources.
SRF Transportation engineers conducted the traffic and transportation study. They conducted their
analysis on traffic assuming full build out of the project in 10 years. They assumed a one - percent
increase in traffic per year on Routes 79 and 96. They assumed the full build -out of Linderman Creek
Apartments. They then took the traffic that would be generated by the development of the 5
neighborhoods. It was put into the traffic stream and analyzed. There were no significant impacts as
a result of it. There were no significant impacts were found. SONG would have less of an impact
than that.
A review of the Town's Comprehensive Plan was done. The major goals of the plan were analyzed in
comparison to EcoVillage. A number of visual simulations were prepared to look at the visual impact
of the facility. We tried to identify what we thought were the most visible locations of the project.
A plant inventory was completed. The records were reviewed of rare and endangered species. None
were found to be located on the site.
Chairperson Wilcox - The Town Board is being asked to rezone the property. The Town Board will
provide us with comments as lead agency.
Mr. Kanter - This is a GEIS and a site specific environmental impact statement for SONG. Process
wise it is not different. The SEQR process is the same. The board will need to look at the document
for site specific impacts and the more generic aspect of the overall development.
Figure 4 incorrectly labels the number of dwelling units. We can go over the small corrections in
detail with the applicant. We mentioned in the traffic section that the intersection of Route 79 and
Warren Place is missing. The scope asks for an evaluation of traffic impact on adjacent
neighborhoods. There are neighborhoods that stem off the intersections that were included. There
needs to be a characterization of how the traffic would or would not impact the neighborhoods.
There might be some elements that would normally be part of Preliminary Site Plan that we do not
see in this document. We normally ask to see a landscape plan at the Preliminary Site Plan stage.
The board would need to decide if they would want more detail. We have a basic overview analysis,
but there are not many details about SONG.
Mr. Walker - The basic concept of storm water management is fine. We will need to see full detail
calculations. There is plenty of room on the site to do what needs to be done to not create a problem.
PLANNING BOARD PAGE 5 APRIL 17, 2001
APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - MAY 17 2001 - APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED
There is also plenty of room not to do something that they need to do.
not create a storm water problem. I have not seen the details so I am
is complete from my prospective regarding storm water manager
documents completed for each phase as they are built. The GEIS
would expect to see design calculation on the specific design details.
The site can be constructed to
unable to comment. The GEIS
lent. There still needs to be
is not adequate for SONG. I
Mr. Kanter - The board needs to decide if this document is only a GEIS. The scoping outline intended
the document to be both a GEIS for the overall development and a site specific GEIS for SONG.
Ms. Wolf - We want to be clear about how we are going to handle issues that we thought would be
handled in site plan review. We thought what we were providing was adequate for the GEIS. The
board still has to approve the site plan. This is something that we have discussed and thought about.
We recognize that there are some missing elements, but thought they were clearly sites plan review
issues. We were hoping to get comments from the board this evening if there were concerns about
adequacy.
Typically the Town requires a landscape plan as part of site plan review. We asked EcoVillage if it
was something that they anticipated doing. EcoVillage anticipates handling the landscape differently.
Chairperson Wilcox - The board will be asked to make a determination of environmental impact. I do
not know if I am comfortable hinging environmental review and a determination of environmental
impact on eventually seeing details later. The board will need to make a determination based upon
the information that we have.
Ms. Wolf - The drainage study has been prepared. It is normally submitted as part of the site plan
review package for storm drainage.
Chairperson Wilcox - Mr. Herrick stated that the water system in place would be at 80% capacity
when SONG is built.
Mr. Herrick - The water system designed for FROG will serve SONG and still have a reserve.
Chairperson Wilcox - We have details about the proposed widths of access. We do not have details
on how the access will be constructed.
Mr. Kanter - Page 20, states that the second neighborhood group a new pond outlook structure
together with a higher embankment of anticipated modifications to maintain the pond peak discharge
at pre - development rates. We do not have the information or calculations that indicate what the extra
volume capacity will be. It is usually considered an environmental issue.
Mr. Herrick - The best we can do with looking at groups 3, 4, and 5 is make assumptions based on
historical patterns of the first groups.
Mr. Kanter - I am talking about the second group.
Chairperson Wilcox - The issue is for each of us to decide if there is enough information to make an
environmental determination.
PLANNING BOARD PAGE 6 APRIL 17, 2001
APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - MAY 11 2001 - APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED
Board Member Mitrano - The answer is no because it is not all prepared. It is terrific that based on
previous experience is to give the board a heads up and offer criticism and ideas so that we do not
get wrapped in the same kinds of difficulties that we had in previous projects. On the other hand, I do
not think anyone is expecting the board to make those determinations this evening on this
information. It is an opportunity for the applicant to present us with well- constructed ideas and get
feedback. I feel there is a new avenue being carved out regarding presentations on these matters.
Chairperson Wilcox - My interpretation is that we are starting a formal procedure outlined by the State
of New York for an environmental impact statement. We are being asked to determine whether this is
an adequate amount of documentation to make an environmental determination. We are not making
the determination. The Town Board as an involved agency will also provide comments. Then at the
next Planning Board meeting we can decide if there is enough information in order to make a
determination. Then at some point, we will need to make a determination if the proposed project
would have an environmental impact. The board will then move onto site review. Normally we have
detailed site plan drawings when we make an environmental determination.
Board Member Howe - Are we confusing two different steps in the process? I was viewing this as a
broad document just to make sure that we have identified what the key environmental issues are.
Mr. Kanter - No. After the board accepts the document, the board then has to use the document to
make the determination. The board will not receive another document. There is one document with
two steps. The first step is to determine the adequacy of the content of the EIS. Once the document
is accepted, then the next step is a public comment period. Everything is then summed up in a Final
EIS. The board then makes findings regarding the environmental issues. Once the board accepts
the EIS, this document is complete. The document does not change unless a new issue is identified.
Board Member Hoffmann - Once the board accepts the document as complete we cannot ask for
more information.
Attorney Barney - Is this document intended to cover the site specific site plan for SONG? Is
intended to be a GEIS for the rezoning of the entire parcel?
Mr. Lambert - It was my impression that the site - specific materials could be left to proceed at its own
pace. This is a generic statement that we are making and we would try to fit our site - specific issues
inside the document.
Attorney Barney - Are you planning to come back with some type of analysis that relate to site
specific features that relate to SONG?
Mr. Lambert - I had not considered it separately. I assumed that the document would be adequate to
proceed with the site - specific design.
Attorney Barney - There is a little discomfort with that process. There are pieces of information that
would normally be available with site specific projects.
PLANNING BOARD PAGE 7 APRIL 17, 2001
APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - MAY 7, 2001 -APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED
Mr. Lambert - The landscaping is resident driven. The landscaping for FROG was put together.
Then because of budget overruns, the landscape was pushed back. The residents took it upon
themselves to find money to do their own landscaping. They have done a beautiful job.
Mr. Kanter - The overall intent is clearly stated on page 2 of scope outline. We have had past
discussions on the board regarding the scope and what the environmental study would entail. It was
intended to cover both site specific and generic aspects in a one step process.
Board Member Hoffmann - I have not seen any information about the road that comes out of
Linderman Creek to Route 79 or about the walkway across Route 79. The practical impact of the
traffic coming out of the road onto Route 79 is present.
Mr. Kanter - We would need to go back to the adopted scope. It is not one of the areas that were
included. It is difficult to re -do the original scoping outline.
Board Member Hoffmann - Today there is traffic in this area. There are plans for expansion. The
document indicates that the speed limit on Route 79 is 55 mph until the City line. The speed limit has
been changed. There are some items that should be updated.
Chairperson Wilcox - Is the document that the board has reasonably sufficient for a rezoning action?
Mr. Kanter - Yes. The board could decide to treat the document as a GEIS only on the rezoning.
Then at a later time, we could ask for supplemental environmental studies. It would mean stretching
out the review process. There is the possibility that the board could determine through a more
specific environmental assessment for rather than this format document. Process wise it is almost
the same. It still means going through a review process. The original intent is a much better intent. It
combines everything together into a more expedited review process.
Chairperson Wilcox - It requires the applicant to have much more detailed drawings available now so
that the board and myself can be comfortable in making the determination. The document could be
considered for the purposes of a possible rezoning. It could also serve as supplemental and
background material for when the actual site plan for SONG comes before the board. This document
would still provide supplemental information for future neighborhoods.
Mr. Lambert - We have struggled to accommodate on- coming members to develo� and design a
neighborhood that would accommodate their needs. We recently signed on out 12t member. It is
important to us to move ahead quickly and build in this season. We want to create a document, as
quickly as possible that would suffice for moving the process along as quickly as possible. We would
like the board to generate a list of needs that would be the document; we could fulfill it within the next
few days.
Chairperson Wilcox - I would like to see calculations of drainage and storm water management.
Board Member Thayer - Mr. Walker has already indicated that he needs more site - specific
information.
PLANNING BOARD PAGE 8 APRIL 17, 2001
APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - MAY 11 2001 - APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED
Mr. Walker - The report in the GEIS summarizes the drainage and storm water management very
well. It does not include design details. Supplemental information with site specific details could be
appended to this document in the process of reviewing specific development.
Board Member Hoffmann - If this document relies on data from the complete build out of Linderman
Creek for one purpose, one should not ignore the intersection of the road with Route 79. The
information about the speed zones needs to be accurate to reflect the current situation. There was a
mention about a small increase of traffic into Coy Glen as a result of this project. I would like to hear
what one could do to diminish the traffic through Coy Glen,
Mr. Lambert - It would be foot traffic through Coy Glen.
Board Member Hoffmann - Yes. It also mentioned that the land that is in meadows now would be
retained as meadows. It does not include information about how they would be maintained as
meadows.
Ms. Wolf - We could include the management strategy for the meadows.
Board Member Hoffmann -
not see it mentioned. I d
SONG on foot.
Mr. Lambert - There would
the ravine across from the
the neighborhoods.
There needs to be some mention of the meadows being maintained. I did
D not understand why there is not an easy way to travel from FROG to
be a small foot bridge built as a community building project at the head of
Common House. There is a lot of concern for social commerce between
Board Member Hoffmann - I was concerned about whether or not a bio- retention area was
appropriate in the center of this area. It might be more appropriate to be located elsewhere.
Chairperson Wilcox - I am surprised that public transportation is not a big concern.
Mr. Lambert - The distance we are located from the road is an issue. We hope to push the issue and
we have spent some time with TCAT. We do a lot of carpooling.
Chairperson Wilcox - The rules and regulations are such that the board cannot continually ask for
more and more information to prolong the project.
Mr. Lambert - We are concerned that we do not get piled on with requests that we did not consider
before and it adds to our bill and time. I would like to contain it within a reasonable level.
Mr. Kanter - The main change in the area is more specific to the Linderman Creek entrance. It may in
some ways impact safety at the Linderman Creek entrance. It would be the only reason for including
it in the traffic study. It would more of a question of the physical conditions. It would be more
appropriate to review the intersection during Phase II of the Linderman Creek Apartments.
Board Member Thayer - It is Linderman Creek Apartment's responsibility.
PLANNING BOARD PAGE 9 APRIL 17, 2001
APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - MAY 11 2001 - APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED
Mr. Kanter - I suggest that the intersection not be included.
Board Member Hoffmann - I am uneasy about ignoring it when it is there.
Board Member Thayer - It is Linderman Creek Apartment's responsibility, not EcoVillage.
Board Member Hoffmann - It is also our responsibility because we allowed the road to be built in its
location.
Board Member Thayer - It is a private road.
Attorney Barney - EcoVillage has done a traffic study with other intersections showing the impact of
the traffic on Route 79. How would it be any different at the exit to Linderman Creek Apartments than
it would an intersection down the road?
Mr. Kanter - It is not EcoVillage's responsibility to determine if the roadway works for Linderman
Creek. It is something that needs to be reviewed during the Linderman Creek Apartments Phase II.
Board Member Hoffmann - I have an uneasy feeling that if someone uses some data about
Linderman Creek, then we need to include all data available.
Board Member Hoffmann - I do not think it would be necessary to take a traffic count at the
intersection.
Chairperson Wilcox - We could get a statement of how many people live in EcoVillage turn into
Linderman Creek.
Board Member Hoffmann - The road has been discussed as being a possible through road.
Chairperson Wilcox - It will be Linderman Creek's issue.
Mr. Walker - It would also alleviate a lot of the problems in the City.
Board Member Hoffmann - I want to be sure the road is not ignored.
Mr. Lambert - We could make a mention of it in the document as something to be considered.
Ms. Wolf - The traffic engineer could make some general observations about the intersection.
Attorney Barney - These are not all the comments from the Town. The Town Board will be making
comments on the project. Staff also has comments they would like to make.
Mr. Kanter - The applicant will need to come back before the Planning Board for a determination. We
will need to circulate the revised documents to the board prior to the meeting in order for them to
make their determination.
PLANNING BOARD PAGE 10 APRIL 17, 2001
• APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - MAY 1, 2001 - APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED
Chairperson Wilcox - The next meeting is May 1St, The Town would need the materials by April 23rd.
It would be difficult to meet the deadline for the next meeting.
Mr. Kanter - The second meeting would be May 15th. The deadline for that meeting would be May 7th
Chairperson Wilcox closed this segment of the meeting at 9:03 p.m.
AGENDA ITEM: APPROVAL OF MINUTES - March 13, 2001, March 20, 2001 & April 3, 2001.
RESOLUTION NO. 2001 -29 - Approval of Minutes - March 6, 2001, March 20, 2001 & April 3,
2001.
MOTION by Fred Wilcox, seconded by Tracy Mitrano.
RESOLVED, that the Planning Board does hereby approve and adopt the March 6, 2001, March 20,
2001, and April 6, 2001 as the official minutes of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board for the said
meeting as presented.
THERE being no further discussion, the Chair called for a vote.
AYES: Wilcox, Hoffmann, Conneman, Mitrano, Thayer, Howe.
NA YS: NONE.
ABSTAIN. NONE.
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously.
AGENDA ITEM: OTHER BUSINESS:
Chairperson Wilcox - There was an ad on Channel 13 for a Town of Ithaca Planner,
Mr. Kanter - We have a vacancy.
AGENDA ITEM: ADJOURNMENT:
Upon MOTION, Chairperson Wilcox declared the April 17, 2001 meeting of Town of Ithaca
Planning Board duly adjourned at 9:07 p.m.
Res ectfully sub 'tted:
Carrie& itmor ,
Deputy Town Clerk/Deputy Receive of Taxes