HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB Minutes 1995-09-19FINAL FILED
TOWN OF ITHACA
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TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD Cler'n ��
SEPTEMBER 19, 1995
The Town of Ithaca Planning Board met in regular session on
Tuesday, September 19, 1995, in Town Hall, 126 East Seneca Street,
Ithaca, New York, at 7:30 p.m.
PRESENT: Chairperson Stephen Smith, Eva Hoffmann, James Ainslie,
Herbert Finch, Robert Kenerson, Gregory Bell, Jonathan
Kanter (Town Planner), Daniel Walker (Town Engineer),
George Frantz (Assistant Town Planner), JoAnn Cornish
(Planner), John Barney (Town Attorney).
ALSO PRESENT: Joseph A. Cimmino, Doug Gillogly, Jr., Sally
Grimes, Louis & Martha Mobbs, Elmer S. Phillips,
Eli Lehrer, Noel Desch, Dan Liguori, Frank Liguori,
Tom McGuire, Ellen Harrison, Mark Macera, Carl Guy,
Fred Noetscher, Bruce Brittain, John Yntema,
Barbara Blanchard, Anne Butler, Kristina Bartlet,
John Gutenberger, Virginia Bryant.
Chairperson Smith declared the meeting duly opene that 7:30
p.m. and accepted, for the record, the Secretary's Affidavit of
Posting and Publication of the Notice of Public Hearingslin Town
Hall and the Ithaca Journal on September 11, 1995, and September
• 13, 1995, together with the Secretary's Affidavit of Service by
Mail of said Notice upon the Clerks of the City of Ithaca' and the
Town of Ithaca, upon the Tompkins County Commissioner of Planning,
upon the Tompkins County Commissioner of Public Works, and upon the
applicants and /or agents, as appropriate, on September 14; 1995,
Chairperson Smith read the Fire Exit Regulations to those
assembled, as required by the New York State Department of State,
Office of Fire Prevention and Control.
AGENDA ITEM: PERSONS TO BE HEARD. i
There were no persons present to be heard. Chairperson Smith
closed this segment of the meeting.
PUBLIC HEARING: CONSIDERATION OF A RECOMMENDATION TO THE ZONING
BOARD OF APPEALS WITH RESPECT TO A REQUEST FOR SPECIAL APPROVAL FOR
ARTICLE XIII, SECTION 70, OF THE TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING ORDINANCE TO
ALLOW THE PROPOSED DEPOSIT OF FILL MATERIAL IN EXCESS OF 2,500
CUBIC YARDS ON TOWN OF ITHACA TAX PARCEL NO, 31 -2 -26.2, LOCATED ON
THE EAST SIDE OF FIVE MILE DRIVE /NYS ROUTE 13A APPROXIMATELY 500
FEET NORTH OF BOSTWICK ROAD, RESIDENCE DISTRICT R -30. CATHOLIC
CEMETERY ASSOCIATION, OWNER; DOUG GILLOGLY, AGENT,
Chairperson Smith declared the Public Hearing in the above -
noted matter duly opened at 7:25 p.m, and read aloud from the
Notice of Public Hearings as posted and published and as noted
above.
Planning Board Minutes 2 September 19, 1995
• APPROVED 10/17/95
Doug Gillogly, Jr. addressed the Board and stated that he had
put in an application to .put in some fill dirt along Five Mile
Drive or Route 13A. Mr. Gillogly stated that most of the material
will be coming from the Octopus project along the banks where they
are putting the approaches for the new bridges. Mr. Gillogly
stated that the area he wishes to put the fill, which is located
across the street from the cemetery, and is owned by the Immaculate
Conception Church. Mr. Gillogly stated the land has pitch that
drops off at the road, it would be beneficial because there is easy
access for disposing the material, and increase the value of the
churches parcel.
Board Member James Ainslie asked what the cemetery does with
the excess dirt.
Mr. Gillogly stated that they put some of it out back, but was
unsure.
Board Member Ainslie asked if the cemetery would need the land
under discussion to put their excess dirt.
Mr. Gillogly responded that there is plenty of room there if
they need the space. Mr. Gillogly stated that there were no
• intentions of putting so much fill on this site that there would
not be room for more. Mr. Gillogly stated that the entire Octopus
job was estimated at 60,000 cubic yards, and we are looking at
35,000 to 40,000 cubic yards of that.
Board Member Ainslie asked if
the
Catholic
Church
had reserved
the land for future expansion of
the
cemetery
if they
need it.
Mr. Gillogly stated that if the church were
it would probably be used to expand the cemetex
stated that the church has no use for the land
time. Mr. Gillogly stated that it was undecided
church wants to do with the land at this time.
to use the land,
-y. Mr. Gillogly
at this point in
exactly what the
Board Member Robert Kenerson asked who determines what is
clean fill.
Mr. Gillogly responded that the Department of Environmental
Conservation (DEC) makes that determination.
Board Member Kenerson asked if it was checked by DEC.
Mr. Gillogly stated that they do check the fill, the prime
contractors, Santaro Industries, has their person at the job site
the entire time the excavation is going on, along with the DEC, and
issomeone representing NYSEG is on the site as well.
Planning Board Minutes 3 September 19, 1995
• APPROVED 10/17/95
Town Attorney John Barney asked how DEC checked the fill to
ensure that it is indeed clean fill.
Mr. Gillogly responded that it would depend on if there was a
complaint, and what the complaint was about.
Attorney
Barney asked if a person
from DEC
was going to be on
the site all
the time overseeing the fill
being
deposited.
Mr. Gillogly stated that there would not be someone from DEC
there all of the time, the only people that will be monitoring the
fill, at the time of excavation will be on the Octopus site.
Attorney Barney asked what the nature of the fill was.
Mr. Gillogly responded, dirt.
Attorney Barney asked if there would be paving remnants in the
fill.
Mr. Gillogly responded that the
with using concrete and asphalt, but
for future expansion it would pose a
stated that there was a site on Sage
which is being used for that type of
approved and permitted the use there.
of the material that is not strictly
church did not have a problem
if they were to use the land
slight problem. Mr. Gillogly
Road, in the Town of Enfield,
material. DEC has monitored,
Mr. Gillogly stated that all
dirt will be taken up there.
Board Member Kenerson asked about tree stumps.
Mr. Gillogly stated that DEC would not let them dump any
stumps on the site. Mr. Gillogly stated that the only way one
could dispose of stumps in on the property they are coming from
unless it is a certified land fill.
Board Member Kenerson stated that the only way to get rid of
stumps is to grind them up.
Mr. Gillogly concurred with Mr. Kenerson's statement.
Louis Mobbs, property owner next the to area that would be
filled, asked what the average depth of the fill would be.
Mr. Gillogly responded that the land is so inconsistent that
it would take approximately 2 feet below the current road level.
Mr. Gillogly stated that he would be visiting the neighbors to take
elevation shots of their land, and find out where the footer drain
is located.
• Mr. Mobbs asked if water would be running off the site into
his property.
Planning Board Minutes 4 1 September 19, 1995
APPROVED 10/17/95
Mr. Gillogly stated that he was trying to prevent that, and
that they would be anywhere from 50 to 100 feet away from the
property line. Mr. Gillogly stated that there would be silt fence
around the property, and erosion control methods put into place,
and if a swail is needed to divide lots to protect the lots, it
will be taken care of.
Chairperson Smith noted that this was a Public Hearing and
asked if there was anyone else from the public that wished to
speak. No one spoke. Chairperson Smith closed the Public Hearing
and brought the matter back to the Board for discussion.
Board Member
Gregory Bell stated
that he was curious how Mr.
Gillogly could live
up to Item C3,
from Part
II of the Short
Environmental Assessment Form (SEAF),
which says that there are
some mature trees
on the site and that
the truck
entrance shall be
located outside of
the driplines of the trees and
that there should
be no more than six inches of fill
within the
dripline of the
trees. Mr. Bell
asked how that could
be done
when he will be
putting in,3 to 5
feet of fill on the
site.
up.
Mr. Gillogly stated that the trees being talked about are
located right along the road. Mr. Gillogly stated that there was
a 10 -foot span at the narrowest point from the shoulder of the road
to where it starts to taper off.
Board Member Eva Hoffmann stated that she was concerned
about
the trees along the edge of
the drop -off,
because
it
looked as
though some of the trees were
right along the
edge of
the
flat
area
and then there is a slope. If
the trees are
standing
on
the
edge,
how can Mr. Gillogly fill just
six inches
there.
Ms.
Hoffmann
stated that the whole slope will not be covered
up.
Mr.
Gillogly
stated
that
the proposal would be approximately
two feet
below the
top of
the
edge.
Board
Member
Hoffmann stated
that
more than six inches would
need to be
filled
within the drip
line
of the trees.
Mr. Gillogly stated that Ms. Hoffmann was correct, and that
the area being discussed is the back side of the trees where it
drops off, and it would be under the drip edge of the trees.
Ms. Hoffmann stated that a deep ditch would be created along
one half of the trees.
Mr. Gillogly stated that if it is not filled it, the ditch
would be created.
•
Planning Board Minutes 5 September 19, 1995
is APPROVED 10/17/95
Planner JoAnn Cornish stated that she understood Ms.
Hoffmann's concerns, and that the condition addressing the drip
line of the trees may need to be modified and stand the chance of
losing those trees, if the fill is allowed to go under the drip
edge.
Board Member Bell asked why wells could not be built around
the trees.
Board Member Hoffmann stated that there is a whole row of
existing trees there, so it would have to be an elongated well.
Mr. Gillogly stated that he had assumed that putting fill
against that bank would actually stabilize that area.
Mr. Gillogly stated that there is a pretty deep drop off where
those trees are located, and it is obvious that there has either
been fill or some excavation done there in the past.
Board Member James Ainslie stated that
Town Planner Jonathan Kanter stated
it seems that when the
road
was improved by
the State,
that
the road bank was built
up so
that
the whole road
would be
on an
equal
elevation and it
seems
that
the trees were
planted at
that
time.
Mr. Kanter stated
that
it is
also possible that there
was some cutting that was also
going
on at this site, at
some time
after
the
road was built as
it is
now.
Mr. Gillogly stated that there is a pretty deep drop off where
those trees are located, and it is obvious that there has either
been fill or some excavation done there in the past.
Board Member James Ainslie stated that
the Members of
the
Board had
received a
letter from James Hanson
from Tompkins County
Planning
Department,
and that he was concerned about drainage
and
erosion,
and asked
if Ms. Cornish had any
comments about
Mr.
Hanson's
concerns.
(Mr. Hanson's letter is
attached hereto
as
Exhibit #2
Planner Cornish stated that the issues raised in Mr. Hanson's
letter have been addressed in the resolution for approval, and
stated that Mr. Walker, Town Engineer, may have something to say
about those issues because has been involved with this project as
well.
Town Engineer Daniel Walker stated that a condition be put in
requiring
the drainage, erosion
and sedimentation
control,
including
vegetative restoration as
part of the permit.
The only
area of flood
plain that there is
any concern about
is in the
vicinity
of the railroad tracks,
which is not really
active
floodplain because the railroad berm
provides a natural barrier for
the
flood
area.
Board Member Ainslie asked if Mr. Hanson knew that the
railroad bed was located there.
Planning Board Minutes 6 September 19, 1995
OAPPROVED 10/17/95
Planner Cornish stated that she would assume that if he had
looked at the map, he would have realized that it was there. Ms.
Cornish stated that she thought there was still concern because the
rear of the map shows that the property is in the flood zone. Ms.
Cornish stated that she had spoken with Tracey Smith of the
Tompkins County Planning Department, and Ms. Smith stated that they
were also concerned with the volume of the fill; the 60;000 cubic
yards was a concern.
Town
Planner Kanter
stated that
the flood zone shown on the
map, which
is on private
property, is
the Zone B which is the 500
year flood;
not a Zone A
which is the
more restrictive zone.
Board Member Bell asked if this area flooded in 1993.
Town Engineer Walker stated that he did not walk into the
site, but most of the flooding occurred in the City of Ithaca
because the lake level rose and affected the areas within the
influence of the lake level. Mr. Walker stated that putting fill
in this area would protect buildings in the area from potential
flooding. Mr. Walker stated that Zone B is an area that is allowed
to be built on if built above the flood elevation in the flood
zone.
• Chairperson Smith asked what the permitting process was for a
cemetery.
Town Attorney John Barney responded that it requires a Special
Approval process under the Zoning Ordinance. Attorney Barney
stated that a cemetery is permitted in all residential zones with
special approval.
Town Planner Kanter stated that there is also a process
through the State Law.that the establishment of a new cemetery or
an expansion of an existing cemetery requires approval from the
County Board,
Attorney Barney stated that there is also governmental
regulation of how the cemetery be maintained.
Board Member Ainslie asked Attorney Barney if this property
would be considered a new site since is has been owned by the
church for many years.
Attorney Barney responded that by moving across the street
would constitute this as a new site.
Board Member Kenerson asked what type of vegetation coverage
• would be used for this site.
Planning Board Minutes 7 September 19, 1995
• APPROVED 10/17/95
Town Engineer Walker stated that a conservation mixture of
grasses is the normal coverage.
Board Member Ainslie asked if it is required to be mowed once
a year
Town Engineer Walker responded that it is not mown now. Mr.
Walker asked how the Board wants to see the land maintained; as a
hayfield, which is not mowed, will lead to weeds and everything
else, or grow as a meadow to brushland to woodland succession.
Attorney Barney stated that he felt that this Board's concern
should be with erosion control and sediment control, and the
impacts it may have on other land, but how they maintain it once
those issues are addressed is up the landowner.
Board
Member
Herbert Finch
asked what the Town of Ithaca Right
of Way was
for as
shown
on the
reason for the difference is
map.
Town Engineer Walker stated that he was not sure where the
right of way come from, but that there used to be park land in the
back of that land, and this could have been access for that park.
• Assistant Town Planner George Frantz stated that he was told
that the Town of Ithaca has fee title to that strip of land.
Planner Cornish stated that Mr. Gillogly had indicated that he
was going to stay 100 feet away from the boundaries of this site.
Mr.
Gillogly stated that
he had figured from
50 to 100 feet
from the
boundaries of this site.
Mr. Gillogly stated
that the
reason for the difference is
because the contour
of Mr. Mobb's
property
is fairly consistent,
but on Mr. Carroll's
property it is
not very
consistent at all.
Mr. Gillogly stated
that the
properties
named are the adjoining properties to
the north and
south.
Attorney
Barney asked
if the
operation of placing the fill on
this site was
a commercial
operation.
Mr. Gillogly responded, yes. Mr. Gillogly stated that he
supplies Santaro with the trucks to move the construction materials
to and from the site. Mr. Gillogly stated that any money that he
has in surplus over the expenses incurred will be given to the
church.
Mr. Bell asked who approached the church for the siting.
• Mr. Gillogly responded that they were approached by
approximately 6 people for the Shady Corners job, the Buttermilk
Falls job, and the Octopus job.
Planning Board Minutes 8 September 19, 1995
• APPROVED 10/17/95
Attorney Barney asked if the definition of clean fill included
or excluded asphalt and concrete.
Mr. Gillogly stated that the DEC definition includes concrete
and asphalt, but his contract with the church excludes both. Mr.
Gillogly stated that there was one area on the site that is 18 feet
deep which will be below any footer for a building and any grave,
which would allow for disposal of minimal amounts of asphalt and
concrete. Mr. Gillogly stated that the agreement is that anything
that is going to be close enough to the ground to interfere with
any future use of the land be eliminated.
Board Member Kenerson asked, for the record, what alternatives
are there if this land is not used for this purpose.
Mr. Gillogly responded that they would need to look for
another fill site.
Board Member Kenerson asked if fill sites were easily
available.
Mr. Gillogly responded, no.
• Board Member Ainslie asked how much more fill the site on Sage
Road would hold.
Mr. Gillogly stated that there is nine acres at that site and
that five to six acres of that is useable, as soon as the fill
approaches the woods there would be a lot of destruction.
Board Member Ainslie stated that the trucks drive by his
property night and day.
Mr. Gillogly stated that the work is no longer being done at
night now.
Board Member Ainslie asked how many yards of fill have been
taken away from the Octopus project.
Mr. Gillogly stated that of the 60,000 yards, they have
already removed approximately 8,000 yards.
Chairperson Smith stated that Planner JoAnn Cornish submitted
a Memorandum to the Planning Board Members in which she refers to
the estimated number of trips that would be generated by this
project.
Board Member Hoffmann stated that she would like to have Ms.
• Cornish summarize the memo.
Planning Board Minutes 9 September 19, 1995
® APPROVED 10/17/95
Planner Cornish stated that Chairperson Smith, Board Member
Cornell, and Planning Department Staff met and came up with some
additional concerns that they felt would be helpful for the Board
tonight. One of the concerns was the soil type that is currently
on the site, which is a Class 2 Soil. Ms. Cornish stated that it
was farmed previously up until approximately 5 years ago, at which
time that operation on that land was stopped. Ms. Cornish stated
that it is fairly good agricultural soil. Ms. Cornish stated that
the main concern for this Board would be the traffic volume
consideration. 60,000 cubic yards of fill, a truck carrying an
average of 10 cubic yards of fill that brings the estimate to 6,000
truck loads of fill on that site. Ms. Cornish stated that he
applicant is proposing a one to five year construction time for the
fill project. Ms. Cornish stated, realistically, it would take
approximately two years because the fill operation should not take
a lot of time. Ms. Cornish estimated 45 days for the fill
operation. Ms. Cornish then reviewed the trip generation figures
as shown in her memo dated September 19, 1995. (Ms. Cornish's memo
is hereto attached as Exhibit #3)
Mr. Gillogly stated that his trucks hold an average of 15
cubic yards per load. Mr. Gillogly stated that regardless of
whether the fill site is on Floral Avenue or in Enfield there will
• be more trucks the farther you go, and there will still be the
6,000 trips on Town of Ithaca roads regardless of the destination.
Board Member Ainslie stated that in addition to the concerns
of the number of trips generated, there are concerns about the
speed the trucks are moving at.
Mr. Gillogly stated that the shorter the haul, the better it
is for everyone concerned, the longer the haul the more trucks that
will be needed, the more roads the trucks will be on and the longer
it will take to complete the project.
Town P
control and
to control
Mr. Gi
Board
tarps when
lanner
asked
that p
llogly
Member
loaded
Kanter
Mr. Gil
roblem.
stated
Keners
stated that Ms. Cornish also mentions dust
logly if he- had addressed in his plans how
that he had not given it much thought,
on asked if the trucks were covered with
Mr. Gillogly responded, no.
Mr. Ainslie stated that he would have to admit that even with
as dry as the conditions have been, he did not see any dirt of the
roads from the trucks passing his property, and the trucks were not
loaded to the point where there was any spill.
n
Planning Board Minutes 10 September 19, 1995
APPROVED 10/17/95
Assistant Town Planner
Frantz stated that
the dust problem
would be on the site where
there will
be heavy
trucks crossing
areas of bare soil which will
quickly, and a breeze comes
be pounded
up, the dust
into very fine dust, very
lands in adjoining lawns.
Town Engineer Walker stated that the Town has standards in the
erosion control manual that address dust control. Mr. Walker
stated that there is a sewer main and a sewer force main, and a gas
line 15 to 20 feet off the shoulder of that road. Mr. Walker
stated that they want to make sure that is stable and not being
disturbed. Mr. Walker stated that by building a construction
entrance with a rumble strip on it made out of timbers will knock
the mud off the truck tires before getting on the road. Mr .Walker
stated that since this is a State Road, they will need to get a
permit for a curb cut from the highway department, and they want to
make sure that the state highway is kept clean also.
Mr. Gillogly stated that he had planned on doing some
extensive road ways, because they want to get the trucks in and out
as clean as possible as well.
Board Member Bell asked what type of road surface would be
used:
Mr. Gillogly stated that there would be a normal base of sand
stone and gravel bone base and the topping would be a clean stone
that would extend the length of the roadway for the trucks to
dispense of the mud from the tires before getting to the highway.
Mr. Gillogly stated that the road would be maintained daily.
Board Member Ainslie asked Mr. Gillogly if he would be filling
the site front to back.
Mr. Gillogly responded, yes.
Chairperson
Smith asked Mr.
Gillogly
if
the
Board's
estimate
according to Ms.
Cornish's memo,
of
66 trips
per
day was
accurate.
Mr. Gillogly stated that the material could not be taken out
within 45 days, the State has to replace the material one area at
a time as it is taken out. Mr. Gillogly stated that the volume the
State is requesting through the time frame is no where near the 45
days.
Planner Cornish asked Mr. Gillogly how many days he felt would
be the required to complete the fill removal.
11
Planning Board Minutes
® APPROVED 10/17/95'
Mr. Gillogly
relocation at the
it would probably
will do that. Mr.
Santaro's schedule
September 19, 1995
stated that if the State intends to do the road
same time they are doing the bridge approaches,
be within the summer, but he doubts that they
Gillogly stated that he was not familiar with
or their contract with the State.
Assistant Town Planner Frantz stated that they had chosen 45
days because they will need to close down some major streets, and
they will be closing them down for as little time as absolutely
necessary.
Town Engineer Walker stated that the State has been committed
in the phasing plans, and he knows that they were to limit their
work from 9pm to 6am, and the surface of the roads are to be able
to be driven on by 6:30 am. Mr. Walker stated that is probably the
same schedule they are following now so that at least one lane of
Fulton Street is being kept open except when they have to cross it
for the utility trenches. Mr. Walker stated that it would be done
over the next two years because all of the roads can not be closed
down at once for construction purposes. Mr. Walker asked what the
fill cycle would be when they get into the big excavation.
Mr Gillogly responded that it would probably be a five minute
fill cycle when the big excavation begins.
Mr. Walker estimated that, based on Mr. Gillogly's statement,
there would be approximately 60 trucks loads per day for this
project.
Board Member Kenerson asked if Mr. Gillogly has a contract
with the Catholic Church.
Mr. Gillogly responded, yes.
Attorney Barney suggested that the Board add a condition to
the resolution to request something in writing from the Church
confirming that the permit is wanted.
Board Member Hoffmann stated that in Mr. Gillogly's
Environmental Assessment Form he wrote, under the description of
the project that the "intend to fill area which is otherwise
unsuitable for use. Increase value of lot." Ms. Hoffmann asked
Mr. Gillogly to describe in what way this land is unsuitable for
use as it is right now.
Mr. Gillogly stated that "unsuitable" is a poor choice of
words. One could do a variety of things with it and the only thing
fill would do is improve it.
is Board Member Hoffmann asked Mr. Gillogly if the main intent of
this project was to increase the value of the lot.
•
•
Planning Board Minutes 12 September 19, 1995
APPROVED 10/17/95
Mr. Gillogly stated that the main intent is to have a place to
dump the dirt because it is a close site and it would improve the
lot by raising elevations.
Town Planner Kanter stated that he thought it was an important
issue for the Board to think about, because in making their
recommendation to the Zoning Board of Appeals, the Board would have
to find that there is a need for the proposed use in the proposed
location as demonstrated by the applicant. Mr. Kanter stated that
if the Board makes that finding it should not be based on the need
of this site because it is unusable, because that is not the case.
Mr. Kanter stated that it would have to be linked to the need for
an area such as this for disposing of fill related to significant
construction projects going on in the area.
Board Member Bell stated that
materials submitted, he did not
Octopus project in them.
in reading over the application
find anything relating to the
ZF
Board Member Hoffmann stated that on Page 2 of the description
of this project it says that the main source of the fill will be
from construction jobs around the Town of Ithaca area. Such jobs
as the Octopus project would be major contributors for the
materials. Ms. Hoffmann stated that the Octopus project is not in
the Town of Ithaca although it benefits the Town of Ithaca. Ms.
Hoffmann stated that, from the discussion tonight, it sounds as
though all of the fill materials will come from the Octopus
project, not from any other sites from around the Town of Ithaca.
Ms. Hoffmann asked Mr. Gillogly if the fill that will be taken from
the Octopus job is going to be enough to fill this site.
Mr. Gillogly responded, no. Mr. Gillogly stated that there
are 60,000 cubic yards total for the entire job. They have removed
close to 8,000 cubic yards to Sage Road already.
Planner Cornish asked
Mr. Gillogly
if he was saying that the
capacity
of the site is 60,000
cubic yards.
responded that they
planned on that site
terminating
Mr.
Gillogly stated that is not
what he is saying. Mr.
Gillogly
stated that he was
saying that
the capacity of that site
will take
what the Octopus
will put in
there up to 60, 000 cubic
yards.
to the railroad tracks.
Attorney Barney asked if the capacity was more than 60,000
cubic yards.
t
Mr.
Gillogly
responded that they
planned on that site
terminating
before the end of the job. Mr.
Gillogly stated that if
you were
to
take the total amount, at the
elevations shown on the
drawings,
it
will take every bit that the Octopus
has and you still
won't be
back
to the railroad tracks.
Planning Board Minutes 13 September 19, 1995
• APPROVED 10/17/95
Attorney Barney asked if Mr. Gillogly could translate what he
just said into cubic yards.
Mr. Gillogly responded that he could not.
Planner Cornish asked where the 60,000 cubic yards came from?
Mr. Gillogly stated that was the numbers on the agreement
between the State and the prime contractor, as far as the bidding
procedure their estimate of material that has to be disposed of
from the project.
Attorney Barney asked if the 60, 000 included the material that
is going to the Sage Road site.
Mr. Gillogly stated that 60,000 cubic yards included
everything.
Attorney Barney stated that Mr. Gillogly stated earlier that
8,000
cubic yards of material was already gone, so
as of today,
it
would
be a maximum of 52,000
cubic yards of material.
And,
of
that,
the stuff that has construction
debris in it,
which can
not
be dumped in this site and will
have to be taken
to a different
• site,
what is left. Attorney
Barney stated that
the problem
is
that
the applicant is asking
for a very wide range of material.
The
problems or concerns at
5,000 cubic yards is
amplified
at
60,000
cubic yards of material.
Board Member Ainslie stated that everyone needs to be
realistic and that everyone who has to drive the Octopus hope that
this will benefit everyone, and we know to put this new road system
in, one has to get rid of material. Mr. Ainslie stated that the
material
has
to
go
somewhere and if
it has to go to Interlaken or
somewhere
it
will
be even more costly.
Chairperson Smith stated that it would be nice to know if the
adjoining residents are facing 60,000 cubic yards vs. 30,000 cubic
yards and the difference in the number of trucks coming into and
out of the neighborhood.
Board Member Hoffmann stated that Mr. Gillogly had stated that
the fill that could be gotten out of the Octopus would not be
enough to cover the whole site. Ms. Hoffmann stated that in the
papers submitted it was stated that the fill would be spread out
evenly over the entire site as work progressed so that it would not
be half filled and then a drop off and the remaining land not
touched. Ms. Hoffmann asked if the fill would be tapered off
consistently as the job commenced, or if the fill would be tapered
• off only when the job was completed.
Planning Board Minutes 14 September 19, 1995
• APPROVED 10/17/95
Mr. Gillogly stated that the material would be graded as the
work is done.
Chairperson Smith asked if there was a time limit on this
project.
Board Member Kenerson responded, five years.
Chairperson Smith stated that five years seems too far opened.
Mr. Smith asked if the time could be compressed into a year or two
years.
Mr. Gillogly stated that he will have to guarantee Santaro
that he can supply them with a place to dump and if he is going to
be limited on that he will have to have exact figures so that he
has time to find another site.
Chairperson Smith stated that one would assume that 30,000
cubic yards is a closer figure to what will actually be deposited
on this site.
Mr. Gillogly stated that Chairperson Smith was correct.
• Attorney Barney stated that he was troubled because he hears
the need for the Octopus, but he heard other jobs being mentioned,
and was not sure of the reason for dumping at this location from
other projects.
Mr. Gillogly
Falls project (The
be done quite a while
stated that the other job was
bridges on NYS Route 13), which
ago, but that he did not have
the Buttermilk
was supposed to
the time to put
the plans together
Gillogly stated that
and submit
there was
the
good
application any earlier. Mr.
topsoil at the Buttermilk Falls
project and it would
be great
for
reclamation of
the site being
discussed tonight.
Board Member Ainslie asked if top soil would be kept separate
from the other fill material.
Mr. Gillogly responded, yes.
Board Member Bell stated that the timing of this application
seems to be odd. Mr. Bell stated that at first you assume that Mr.
Gillogly will be removing material from the Octopus project and it
is a long term project, but now the Board is hearing that Mr.
Gillogly has trucks running right now, and if the Board delays
decision from this meeting to the next meeting there would be
problems for Mr. Gillogly. Mr. Bell stated that the Octopus
• project has been under discussion for 20 years, and asked why the
application has just come to the Board.
r �
U
U
U
Planning Board Minutes 15 September 19, 1995
APPROVED 10/17/95
Mr. Gillogly stated that with his work schedule of 18 hours
per day he has not had the time to get the necessary information
together and to the Town any earlier than this.
Town Engineer Walker stated that the Town has a regulation
that requires that the Planning Board review all fill projects over
2,500 cubic yards. Mr. Walker stated that an application for
placing the fill has come in on a site and Mr. Walker had made the
determination that the fill could be placed on that site in a
manner not to adversely effect adjoining properties, which is what
the ordinance says. Mr. Walker stated that if the Planning Board
feels that it is appropriate to issue a fill permit for this
location, then the Board should so recommend to the Zoning Board of
Appeals, whatever the source of the fill material is. Mr. Walker
stated that if the Board feels that it is not appropriate to place
fill in this location, with reason, then the Board should not make
a positive recommendation to the Zoning Board. Mr. Walker stated
that the politics of how long it took to design the Octopus and
other things is not the question before the Board; this is a fill
permit application. The applicant has been discussing it with the
Town for approximately six months, and it has been reviewed by
appropriate members of Town staff. The Board is to determine
whether or not this site is appropriate, and what the possible
impacts are to the road and neighbors, which is appropriate.
Board Member Bell stated that he felt that it was very
important to know why the application is so late coming to the
Board, because if the applicant is under pressure, then the Board
is under pressure.
Town Engineer Walker stated that the only pressure the
applicant is under is that they have to deal with their contractor
if the Board says no. The Board should not feel that pressure.
Board Member Ainslie asked if Mr. Gillogly had the same
situation with the Town of Enfield for the Sage Road site.
Town Engineer Walker stated that they do not have any
regulations regarding earth -fill permits.
Mr.
Gillogly stated that
the
only regulation was the DEC Army
Corps of
Engineers, which was
all
approved.
Board Member Hoffmann stated that she had a question regarding
the language in the proposed resolution. Ms. Hoffmann asked if
there was, in fact, a change in land use as a result of this fill.
Planning Board Minutes 16 September 19, 1995
• APPROVED 10/17/95
Town Attorney John Barney stated that this is an R -30 zone,
which is why he had asked Mr. Gillogly what the commercial nature
of this operation was, because an R -30 zone is basically
residential and does not include,as one of its permitted uses, the
operation of a commercial land fill. Attorney Barney stated that
if this had to be litigated, it would be a gray area because we do
provide under Section 70 of our Zoning Ordinance for a fill permit
to apply to basically any district. Attorney Barney stated, on the
other hand, it is an area where fill is being accepted from a
variety of different locations for profit, which is the operation
of a commercial land fill, which does not falls within the R -30
zone. Attorney Barney stated that it would not be inappropriate to
say that this site should be limited to fill only from the Octopus
and such other topsoil that the Town Engineer deemed appropriate in
order to complete the restoration or the conservation project.
Board Member Bell stated that he would like to revisit the
issue of the trees that are existing along Route 13A, Mr Bell
stated that the nature of this project has become more clear
through this discussion, and it appears that this will not be
leading a residential development or a cemetery or any specific
thing, and it could be many years before anything is built on it.
Mr. Bell stated that a grading plan could be designed to maintain
. the existing trees along Route 13A, to maintain the look of that
tree line.
Town Engineer Walker stated that he thought it was a very
reasonable restriction to put on the approval that all mature trees
be protected to the extent possible.
Board Member Hoffmann asked how the Board was to address the
question of need.
Chairperson Smith stated that he thought the need was
addressed the identifying the highway construction and that the
fill has to go somewhere, it is going to be trucked on Town of
Ithaca roads, and the shorter the distance, the less the impact on
the Town.
Attorney Barney
stated
that
the need that the fill has to be
placed somewhere is a
very
clear
need.
Board Member Hoffmann stated that she
would
like it to be made
clear, for the
record, that the needs
that
are shown in the
application are
not the needs that are
being
used to make the
determination to
forward this project to the
Zoning Board of
Appeals.
• There appearing to be no further discussion, Chairperson Smith
asked if anyone were prepared to offer a motion.
Planning Board Minutes 17 September 19, 1995
0 APPROVED 10/17/95
MOTION by Robert Kenerson, seconded by James Ainslie:
•
•
WHEREAS:
1. This action is the Consideration of a Recommendation to the
Zoning Board of Appeals with respect to a request for Special
Approval for the proposed deposit of fill material not to
exceed 60,000 cubic yards on portions of Town of Ithaca Tax
Parcel No. 31 -2 -26.2. Project area is located on the east
side of Five Mile Drive, NYS Route 13A, approximately 500 feet
north of Bostwick Road, Residence District R -30. Catholic
Cemetery Association, Owner; Doug Gillogly, Jr. Agent, and
2.
This is an Unlisted Action
Board of Appeals will ac
and
review,
for w
which t
the Town o
of I
Ithaca Zoning
3. The Planning Board, at a Public Hearing on September 19, 1995,
has reviewed and accepted as adequate a Short Environmental
Assessment Form Part I submitted by the applicant and a Part
II prepared by the Town Planning, Department, a site map
entitled Sheldon Commercial Group Site Plan Topographical,
not dated, Job No. 2 -57, and other application materials.
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED:
1. That the Planning Board, in making recommendation to the
Zoning Board of Appeals, determines the following:
a, there is a need for the proposed use in the proposed
location, as demonstrated by the applicant, in that there
is a need to provide a location as close as reasonably
possible to the "Octopus" project for the disposal of
fill generated by such project;
b, the existing and probable future character of
the neighborhood will not be adversely
affected as a result of the proposed project;
C, the specific proposed change in land use as a
result of the proposed project is not in
conflict with a comprehensive plan of
development for the Town of Ithaca.
2. That the Planning Board reports to the Zoning Board of Appeals
its recommendation that the aforementioned request for Special
Approval be approved, subject to the following conditions:
b, the existing and probable future character of
the neighborhood will not be adversely
affected as a result of the proposed project;
C, the specific proposed change in land use as a
result of the proposed project is not in
conflict with a comprehensive plan of
development for the Town of Ithaca.
2. That the Planning Board reports to the Zoning Board of Appeals
its recommendation that the aforementioned request for Special
Approval be approved, subject to the following conditions:
•
•
Planning Board Minutes 18 September 19, 1995
APPROVED 10/17/95
a. Applicant shall provide construction /phasing schedule,
showing quantities and methods for controlling erosion,
to the Town Engineer for review and approval prior to
granting of Special Approval by the Zoning Board of
Appeals.
b. That sediment and erosion control, and dust control
methods in compliance with New York State Department of
Environmental Conservation guidelines for controlling
erosion, siltation and pollution to all waterbodies and
wetlands and as approved by the Town Engineer, be
practiced throughout each phase of the proposed project.
C, Upon completion of the final grading, vegetation
appropriate for the site be established on all areas
disturbed by construction, to be approved by the Town
Engineer.
d. That the proposed permit expire after a period of three
years from the date the resolution is signed by the chair
of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board.
e. Submission of an original or mylar copy of the final site
map, dated and signed by the preparer, to be retained by
the Town of Ithaca.
Attorney Barney suggested the following conditions be added to the
above -noted resolution:
f. The fill is to be limited to dirt and natural stones, no
asphalt or concrete pieces are to be deposited on the
site.
g. Construction of a stabilized, temporary curb cut and site
access road to the site, satisfactory to the Town
Engineer, to be removed at the termination of the permit.
h. Provision of a letter or other document from the
landowner authorizing application for a permit.
P
. The proposed grading plan be required to be designed to
protect existing mature trees (as determined by the Town
Engineer) on the site satisfactory to the Town Engineer.
I
. The fill shall be only fill from the "Octopus" project,
except for such additional fill material as the Town
Engineer finds appropriate to provide adequate
stabilization and vegetation growth.
• The Board concurred with
additions.
Attorney Barney's suggested
Planning Board Minutes 19 September 19, 1995
• APPROVED 10/17/95
There being no further discussion, the Chair called for a
vote.
Aye - Smith, Hoffmann, Ainslie, Finch, Kenerson, Bell.
Nay - None.
The MOTION was declared to be Carried Unanimously,
Chairperson Smith declared the matter of the recommendation to
the Zoning Board of Appeals regarding the Five Mile Drive Fill
Permit duly closed at 8:57 p.m.
PUBLIC HEARING: CONSIDERATION OF FINAL SITE PLAN APPROVAL FOR
THE PROPOSED KOLAR MACHINE, INC. MANUFACTURING FACILITY, TO BE
LOCATED IN THE EXISTING BELL'S WAREHOUSE /ROSCOE WOODWORKING
BUILDING AT 612 ELMIRA ROAD, FOR WHICH SITE PLAN APPROVAL WAS
ORIGINALLY GRANTED ON MAY 21, 1991, THE PROPOSAL CONSISTS OF MINOR
MODIFICATIONS TO THE SITE PLAN OF AN EXISTING INDUSTRIAL SITE
CURRENTLY HOUSING A 10,000 SQUARE FOOT WOODWORKING OPERATION AND A
21000 SQUARE FOOT WAREHOUSE, TO ALLOW KOLAR MACHINE, INC. TO MORE
INTO THE 10,000 SQUARE FOOT AREA OCCUPIED BY THE WOODWORKING
OPERATION, AND, IN THE FUTURE, EXPAND INTO THE 21000 SQUARE FOOT
WAREHOUSE AREA. THE SITE IS „LOCATED ON TOWN OF ITHACA TAX PARCEL
• NO. 33- 3 -2.81 1.19± ACRES, LIGHT INDUSTRIAL DISTRICT. THOMAS BELL,
OWNER; KOLAR MACHINE, INC., APPLICANT; FRANK LIGOURI, AGENT.
Chairperson Smith declared the Public Hearing in the above -
noted matter duly opened at 8:58 p.m, and read aloud from the
Notice of Public hearings as posted and published and as noted
above.
Frank Ligouri addressed the Board and stated that he is
requesting final site plan approval at tonight's meeting. Mr.
Ligouri stated that an agreement had been reached with staff about
the concerns of the Board which were expressed at the Preliminary
Site Plan Hearing, Mr. Ligouri stated that he concurs with all of
the conditions listed in the proposed resolution, and is assuming
they will get a 500 cubic yard fill permit for this project.
Assistant Town Planner Frantz stated that he had a few
comments to make about the conditions in the proposed resolution
that Mr. Ligouri referred to. Mr. Frantz stated that Mr. Ligouri
had provided the Town with the information on the depth of the fill
being proposed. Mr. Frantz stated that he went back out to the
site and walked the stream bed to determine whether or not the
amount of fill that is being proposed was an appropriate amount and
would it end up in the stream bed blocking the stream. Mr. Frantz
stated that it appears to be alright, essentially what exists along
the stream right now is a bank that is pretty uniform because what
is there now is all fill that had been put in over the last 20
years. Mr. Frantz stated that what Mr. Ligouri is proposing to do
Planning Board Minutes 20 September 19, 1995
• APPROVED 10/17/95
is add anywhere from one to two and one half feet of additional
fill material, which will result in an even embankment, which will
still be stable enough provided that it is graded off and seeded to
grass once it is finished. Mr. Frantz suggested that the bales of
hay be placed at the toe of the slope at the edge of the stream,
instead of at the top of the slope as indicated in the proposal.
Mr. Ligouri concurred with that suggestion.
Assistant Town Planner Frantz stated that thought it that the
woody vegetation should be cleared before the fill process is
started.
Chairperson Smith noted that this was a Public Hearing and
asked if anyone from the Public wished to speak. No one spoke.
Chairperson Smith closed the Public Hearing and brought the matter
back to the Board for discussion.
There
appearing to
be
no
further
discussion, the Chair asked
if anyone
were prepared
to
offer
a motion.
MOTION by Robert kenerson, seconded by Herbert Finch:
• WHEREAS:
1. This action is Consideration of Final Site Plan Approval for
the proposed Kolar Machine, Inc. manufacturing facility, to be
located in the Bell's Warehouse /Roscoe Woodworking building at.
612 Elmira Road, for which Site Plan Approval was granted on
May 21, 1991. The proposed action consists of minor
modifications to the site plan of an existing industrial site
currently housing a 10,000 sq. ft. woodworking operation and
a 2,000 sq, ft. warehouse, to allow Kolar Machine, Inc. to
move into the 10,000 sq. ft. area occupied by the woodworking
operation, and, in the future, expand into the 2,000 sq, ft,
warehouse area. The site is located on Town of Ithaca Tax
Parcel No. 33- 3 -218, 1.19 + /- acres, Light Industrial District.
Thomas Bell, Owner; Kolar Machine, Inc., Applicant; Frank
Liguori, Agent, and
2. This is an Unlisted Action for which the Town of Ithaca
Planning Board, acting as Lead Agency in environmental review,
did, on June 6, 1995, make a negative determination of
environmental significance, and
3. The Planning Board, at a Public Hearing on June 6, 1995, did
grant Preliminary Site Plan Approval, with conditions, to the
proposed project, and
•
•
•
•
Planning Board Minutes 21 September 19, 1995
APPROVED 10/17/95
4. The Planning Board, at a Public Hearing on September 19, 1995,
has reviewed a site plan entitled "Proposed Kolar Machine
Plant" prepared by Frank R. Liguori, P.E. dated April 1995 and
revised August 1995, and additional application materials,
which substantially address the conditions attached to the
Preliminary Site Plan Approval,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED:
That the Planning Board hereby grants Final Site Plan Approval
to the proposed site plan entitled "Proposed Kolar Machine
Plant" prepared by Frank R. Liguori, P.E. dated April 1995,
and revised August 1995, subject to the following conditions:
a. Removal prior to the deposit of any fill of all woody
vegetation within the area to be filled;
b. Placement of the bales of straw proposed for use in
sediment and erosion control at the toe of the existing
slope of the proposed fill instead of where shown on the
proposed site plan;
C, Modification of the proposed plan to include the seeding
to grass of the new embankment between the existing
stream and the new parking lot;
d. Submission of an original and two copies of the final
site plan with the architect's or engineer's seal and
signature for approval by the Town Engineer and Town
Planner.
There being no further discussion, the Chair called for a
vote.
Aye - Smith, Hoffmann, Ainslie, Finch, Kenerson, Bell.
Nay - None.
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously.
Chairperson Smith
declared
the matter
of
Final Site Plan for
Kolar Machine, Inc. to
be
duly closed
at 9:08
p.m.
Planning Board Minutes 22 September 19, 1995
• APPROVED 10/17/95
PUBLIC HEARING: CONSIDERATION OF A RECOMMENDATION TO THE TOWN
BOARD WITH RESPECT TO THE PROPOSED REZONING OF THAT PORTION OF
CORNELL UNIVERSITY KNOWS AS PRECINCT 7, CONSISTING OF 271± ACRES,
COMPRISING THOSE PORTIONS OF TOWN OF ITHACA TAX PARCEL NOS. 63 -1-
10, 63 -1 -11, 64 -1 -11 AND 64 -1 -2, BOUNDED BY NYS ROUTE 366 ON THE
NORTH, GAME FARM ROAD ON THE EAST, CASCADILLA CREEK ON THE SOUTH,
AND JUDD FALLS ROAD ON THE WEST, AS SHOWN ON A MAP ENTITLED "SITE
PLAN - CORNELL UNIVERSITY PRECINCT NO, 7, TOWN OF ITHACA SPECIAL
LAND USE DISTRICT NO. 9" DATED AUGUST 10, 1995, FROM RESIDENCE
DISTRICT R -30 TO SPECIAL LAND USE DISTRICT NO, 9. CORNELL
UNIVERSITY, OWNER; SHIRLEY EGAN, ERIC DICKE, AND JOHN GUTENBERGER,
AGENTS.
Chairperson Smith declared the Public Hearing in the above -
noted matter duly opened at 9:09 p.m. and read aloud from the
Notice of Public Hearings as posted and published and as noted
above.
Town Planner Jonathan Kanter addressed the Board and stated
that after completing the Environmental Impact Statement review
process, the Precinct 7 GEIS went to the Town Board and the Town
Board set up a special committee to look into several issues and
questions that had been raised by the public and some of the Town
• Board Members, which has been going on for approximately nine
months. Mr. Kanter stated that Ellen Harrison chaired the SLUD
Committee, and is here to review some of the changes and revisions
that have gone into the proposed land use district made by the
Committee with the members of the Planning Board tonight.
Ellen Harrison addressed the Board and briefly summarized the
major changes proposed. Ms. Harrison stated that the Town Board
had a public hearing and a couple of issues were raised at that
public hearing and there were some Town Board Members who had
additional ideas for the SLUD and over the last nine month final
gestation period, a group of Town Board Members and members of Town
staff met with Cornell University representatives (John
Gutenberger, Shirley Egan, Eric Dicke, and Bill Wendt). Ms.
Harrison stated that she thinks that the changes that have been
made, strengthens the issues that the Planning Board was interested
in. Ms. Harrison stated that transportation issues were addressed
by the Committee, the GEIS recognized that there might be a
substantial increase in traffic generation and that impact on some
of the residential communities was of concern. The committee came
up with a transportation agreement, which is to try to set up a
committee to work on some of the transportation issues. Ms.
Harrison stated that the committee also discussed protecting the
scenic view one would get across the parcel from Route 366 toward
Snyder Hill and Mount Pleasant, Ms. Harrison stated that the
• Committee wanted to preserve that view, and felt that there was an
important opportunity to preserve some agriculture feel in
proximity to the campus. Ms. Harrison stated that after a lot of
Planning Board Minutes 23 September 19, 1995
• APPROVED 10/17/95
discussions a scenic view protection area has been added. Ms.
Harrison stated that building height was addressed by the committee
as well. Ms. Harrison stated that someone had noticed that the way
the SLUD was originally written, if there was any rear truck ramp
that went into a building below grade, the height was going to be
calculated from the bottom of that truck grade to the top of the
building, which would have restricted building height beyond what
seems to really make sense. Ms. Harrison stated that Attorney
Barney came up with a creative solution that deals with how much of
the building perimeter is below grade, etc. Parking was an
additional item that was discussed and the Committee tried to work
out a compromise because the Town does not want more parking than
what is absolutely necessary, at the same time the Committee wanted
to make sure they were not going to create problems in the Town by
having people parking on neighborhood streets. Ms. Harrison stated
that Town Planner Kanter and Mr. Wendt of Cornell Transportation,
spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out how much parking is
associated with what kinds of uses on campus currently and have
come up with a set of suggested standards, which still allows some
flexibility. Ms. Harrison stated that there were minor changes in
the allowable commercial uses, and set back distances. Ms.
Harrison stated that pretty much summarizes the changes as outlined
in her memorandum to the Planning Board. (Ms. Harrison's memo,
• dated 9/5/95, is attached hereto as Exhibit #3)
Chairperson Smith asked if there were any changes to the
setbacks around the natural areas.
Ms, Harrison stated that there were no changes to the setbacks
around the natural areas, but there were changes to the setbacks
between roadways and buildings
Town Planner Kanter stated that they also differentiated
between the main public roads and internal university roads, which
would require different scales of which setbacks would work.
Chairperson
Smith
asked
if the setback
on internal roads was
a flat 60 feet or
if it
was
dependant on the
building height.
Ms. Harrison responded that the setback is a flat 60 feet.
Chairperson Smith asked if the Cascadilla Creek area is going
to be restricted only to pedestrian /bicycle usage or if utilities
will be constructed as well.
Board Member Hoffmann asked under what circumstances might it
be necessary to provide utility connections between the SLUD and
the East Hill Plaza area.
•
Planning Board Minutes 24 September 19, 1995
0 APPROVED 10/17/95
Town Engineer Daniel Walker responded that the Town of
Ithaca's water transmission main exists between those two entities
currently, if the Town needed an additional water main or a larger
water main to supply the East Hill and the South Hill areas that
would be one of the issues that might be necessary.
Town Planner Kanter stated that the real factor leading to
something specific on a structure was the purpose of providing
pedestrian /bicycle access possibilities for better connection
between Precinct 7 and the East Hill Plaza area. Mr. Kanter stated
that it was very clear that the Town did not want to include
motorized vehicle access.
Chairperson Smith noted that this was a Public Hearing and
asked if anyone from the public wished to speak.
Elmer Phillips addressed the Board and stated that he has
lived in Ithaca for 67 years, and wished to describe some of the
changes that have taken place in the area. Mr. Phillips stated
that when he first came to Ithaca, he came in on Route 96 from
Trumansburg, there were four or five other bridges available so
that people could cross the inlet. Over a long period of time
those bridges have disappeared one by one, until the beautiful
• development of the Octopus, which was argued about for 25 years.
Mr. Phillips stated that now everything will be changed again. Mr.
Phillips stated that he forecasts that the Town is moving the
problems at the Octopus to another position which is south on Route
13 where the roads finally come together. Mr. Phillips stated that
it will not be as bad because there will be some filtration through
at other spots as well. Mr. Phillips stated, as he looks at what
he sees on the development and what he has read about the
development, he felt that there may be a repeat of the Octopus
problems somewhere down the road. Mr. Phillips stated that there
are three entities involved in this project and there is only one
of them present tonight. Mr. Phillips stated that the Town of
Ithaca, Town of Dryden, and the City of Ithaca are all affiliated
with this project. Mr. Phillips stated that the proposal is one
hell of a poor way to route traffic between Stewart Avenue and
Varna, but what other way is there. Mr. Phillips suggested that
the County Planning Board should put together one representative,
or more, from each of the Planning Boards in the area and try to
work out some of these programs which deal with contiguous problems
where they are turned down. Mr. Phillips stated that it would be
interesting to extend an existing road to the Town of Lansing, or
to Route 79, or maybe even over to Coddington Road; because north
and south traffic is impossible because one would need to travel
through the City of Ithaca or a long way out of your way to get
from one side of the Town to the other. Mr. Phillips stated that
he would like to see fewer parking lots, less vehicular
transportation, and greater public transportation. Mr. Phillips
stated that if people do not work together collectively soon,
Planning Board Minutes 25 September 19, 1995
• APPROVED 10/17/95
concentration on our own problems will hide the problems that
really need to be completed.
Bruce Brittain of 135 Warren Road, addressed the Board and
stated that he was Chair of the Traffic Committee in Forest Home.
Mr. Brittain stated that one of the concerns the Forest Home
Community has is that the proposal still allows for tremendous
development in the Precinct 7 area. Mr. Brittain stated that he is
very pleased that there has been a sincere effort to mitigate the
impacts of that traffic. Mr. Brittain stated that he had hoped for
stronger wording in the proposal about when mitigation efforts
would take place and what they would be, but he hopes that what is
in the SLUD as it is revised will prove to be sufficient. Mr.
Brittain stated that the SLUD looks at the bigger picture, and that
Forest Home is only a minor part of the surrounding area, and the
traffic problems that Forest Home faces now are the same problems
that the rest of the residential areas in the Town, will be facing
within a few years. Mr. Brittain stated that he thinks that the
SLUD does provide a mechanism for trying to alleviate those traffic
problems. Mr. Brittain stated that he hopes that what is in the
SLUD could be applied as a control mechanism throughout the rest of
the Town of Ithaca.
• Ms. Harrison stated that she felt that Mr. Phillips was
correct and probably knows that there has been discussion of an
East Ithaca Connector road, and that the Metropolitan Planning
Organization, which involves all of the municipalities in the
County and Cornell University, that has proposed to study the issue
of connections Mr. Phillips has mentioned.
Chairperson Smith noted that this was a Public Hearing and
asked if anyone else from the Public wished to speak. No one
spoke. Chairperson Smith closed the Public Hearing and brought the
matter back to the Board for discussion.
Board Member Eva Hoffmann stated that regarding parking, on
Page 10 of the revised SLUD it talks about in general there should
be a minimum amount of parking provided in such a way that 1) there
is one parking space for each 1,200 feet of enclosed space, or 2)
two spaces per three occupants intended to be assigned to the
facility. Ms. Hoffmann stated that on Page 11 it shows a specific
schedule for specific uses, like classrooms, offices, library,
cafeteria, etc., and there is a difference. Ms. Hoffmann stated
that in offices there is supposed to be two spaces for each three
occupants assigned to the facility, and then there are some other
specific uses where it says there should be one space for each
three occupants for uses like, cafeterias, maintenance storage and
repair facilities, etc. Ms. Hoffmann stated that she understands
• that there has been very detailed discussions to come up with very
good reasons for having different standards for different uses; but
she is afraid that in this document a situation might be created
Planning Board Minutes 26 September 19, 1995
• APPROVED 10/17/95
where it is hard for Cornell to increase the number of parking
spaces for some of those uses if they felt it necessary to do so.
Town Planner Kanter stated that the standards are supposed to
reflect minimum numbers that Cornell would be required to provide.
Ms. Harrison stated that on Page 10 of the SLUD it states that
the amount of parking should be a minimum of....; and that on Page
15, which is a different section that Page 10; is where if Cornell
wanted to come in and argue that they did not need as many spaces
as are proposed in Page 10 and 11, they could come in a apply for
a reduction in parking. But, the Town needed an escape clause so
that if less spaces were permitted, and it was discovered that more
were needed, the Town would have a clause that allows them to
review that. Ms. Harrison stated that she was not sure that the
Town could require Cornell to put in more spaces than the number
shown in the standards on Pages 10 and 11 of the SLUD.
Attorney Barney stated that what is on page 10 is the minimal
standards and he did not know if the Planning Board could, under
any circumstances, compel Cornell to put in more spaces than are
required by the minimum. Attorney Barney stated that Cornell could
chose to put in a larger number of spaces.
• Board Member Hoffmann stated that it seemed to her that some
of the language sounded like Cornell could increase the number of
parking spaces, but only up to the minimum number that would have
been otherwise required.
Attorney Barney stated that Item C on Page 13 is the preface,
and everything that follows now, Roman Numerals I through VII, says
that you can authorize that the required minimum number may be
reduced by the Planning Board, and if that is done, and if within
five years it be discovered that the reduction was a mistake, you
can require that a plan be submitted to the Planning Board to
alleviate the problem. Attorney Barney stated that would only
apply to the circumstance where the Planning Board has gone below
the minimum standards. Attorney Barney stated that could be made
absolutely clear by adding the word "minimum" to "standards ".
Board Member Hoffmann stated that she had noticed a couple of
typos, the most substantial being on Page 16, Sub -Item D, which is
part of something that starts on Page 13 as part of Item 9, Ms.
Hoffmann stated that Item 9a starts, "Shall to the extent
appropriate..."; 9b says, "Shall to the extent appropriate..."; 9c
says, "May authorize..."; and 9d says, "Notwithstanding the
provisions...". Ms. Hoffmann stated that she felt that 9d should
say, "Shall, notwithstanding the provisions...".
•
Planning Board Minutes 27 September 19, 1995
• APPROVED 10/17/95
Attorney Barney stated that it should begin with something,
but that he felt that it should read, "May, notwithstanding the
provisions...".
The Board concurred with the changes suggested by Ms, Hoffmann
and Attorney Barney.
Board Member Herbert Finch stated that the Board has had
project come before the Board where it seemed to be appropriate to
define "view areas", in this case, a geographic definition has been
presented and asked if there was criteria that might be useful to
define the Town of Ithaca view areas.
Ms. Harrison stated that the area in the SLUD has some real
physical reality to it, meaning when one travels across Route 366
going to the east, you crest a rise and suddenly the view appears
across the parcel, which is where the view area was started. Ms.
Harrison stated that there was some natural boundary as well,
McGowan Wood forming a natural edge for the natural area. Ms.
Harrison stated that she was not sure that criteria to define a
view area was specifically determined, that could easily apply
elsewhere.
® Town Planner Kanter stated, based on travel and looking at the
viewshed, primarily from the roadway, of that particular area, made
this a site specific view area.
Board Member Gregory Bell stated that he thought that the
implication that is pretty obvious given the fact that in a few
minutes after this discussion, the Board will be having another
discussion for another site that have view as the main issue. Mr.
Bell asked if there was any intent as to policy on views?
Ms, Harrison stated that one would have to recognize that this
proposal has not been approved by the Town Board, this represents
a committee, which had three Board members on it. Ms. Harrison
stated that the committee members clearly felt that it was in the
Town's interest to protect the scenic view, and that was something
that the committee had, not only the right but the responsibility
to consider in this rezoning.
Attorney Barney stated that there is a very strong distinction
between this proposal and the upcoming discussion, and that is that
Cornell also was willing to do it. This is not something that is
being forced onto Cornell as something they must do. Attorney
Barney stated that there have been meetings and came to a consensus
with Cornell that it was a not a bad idea for the landowner
involved to have the ordinance constructed in such a way as to
• permit this view area.
Planning Board Minutes 28 September 19, 1995
APPROVED 10/17/95
Ms. Harrison stated that it is an open question of what would
have happened if the committee had not been able to reach consensus
on the issue of the view area.
Town Planner Kanter stated that the Town Board had adopted the
Supplemental Statement of Findings at their meeting on September
11, 1995.
There appearing to be no further discussion, Chairperson Smith
asked if anyone were prepared to offer a motion.
MOTION by Herbert Finch, seconded by Robert Kenerson:
RESOLVED, that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board hereby recommends
to the Town of Ithaca Town Board the adoption of the proposed
rezoning of 271 +/- acres, owned by Cornell University, comprising
those portions of Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel Nos. 63 -1 -10, 63 -1 -11,
64 -1 -1, and 64 -1 -2, bounded by NYS Route 366 on the north, Game
Farm Road on the east, Cascadilla Creek on the south, and Judd
Falls Road on the west, as shown on a map entitled "Site Plan -
Cornell University Precinct No, 7, Town of Ithaca Special Land Use
District No. 9," and as described in the revised "A Local Law to
Amend the Zoning Ordinance to Provide a Special Land Use District
(Limited Mixed Use) for the Cornell University Precinct 7"
(Submitted at this meeting, 9/19/95), from Residence District R -30
to Special Land Use District (SLUD) No. 9;
AND FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board
supports the establishment of a Transportation Committee to study
and make recommendations regarding existing and future traffic in
the Precinct 7 area and its impact on surrounding neighborhoods,
transportation alternatives such as park- and -ride lots and improved
transit, and traffic connectivity and pedestrian safety related
issues, as well as other transportation issues, as outlined in the
draft "Agreement Regarding Transportation- related Issues Between
Cornell University and the Town of Ithaca" (Revised 5/12/95,
Further Revised 9/12/95),
Board Member Gregory Bell stated that he wanted to ask Ms.
Harrison about the intent on timing of the transportation
committee. Mr. Bell stated that transportation is obviously a
major issue and has been through the whole process, and stated that
he was concerned that the comparison to the Octopus may be true,
and asked if Ms. Harrison could give the Board any sense of whether
something will ever come of this.
Ms. Harrison stated that with the Metropolitan Planning
Organization, more opportunities for some serious cooperation and
So looking at transportation issues exist. Ms. Harrison stated that
she is not sure that the answer lies in building more roads.
Planning Board Minutes 29 September 19, 1995
• APPROVED 10/17/95
There being no further discussion, the Chair called for a
vote.
Aye - Smith, Hoffmann, Ainslie, Finch, Kenerson, Bell.
Nay - None.
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously.
Chairperson Smith declared the matter of the Recommendation to
the Town Board regarding the proposed rezoning of Cornell
University's Precinct 7 to be duly closed at 9:52 p.m.
AGENDA ITEM: DISCUSSION OF ITHACARE CENTER SENIOR LIVING
COMMUNITY FINAL ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT STATEMENT, AND IN PARTICULAR,
"MODIFIED ALTERNATIVE B-3, " ON A PARCEL LOCATED ON THE WEST SIDE OF
DANBY ROAD APPROXIMATELY 2, 000 FEET SOUTH OF THE ENTRANCE TO ITHACA
COLLEGE ON THAT 20 + ACRE PORTION OF TOWN OF ITHACA TAX PARCEL NO,
39 -1 -1.3 DESIGNATED AS SPECIAL LAND USE DISTRICT NO, 7, ITHACARE
CENTER, INC., APPLICANT; MARK MACERA, AGENT,
Chairperson Smith declared the above -noted matter duly opened
at 9:53 p.m. and read aloud from the Planning Board Agenda.
• Mark Macera, Executive Director at Ithacare, addressed the
Board and stated that he was here this evening to discuss
IthacareIs progress in conducting an analysis into the implications
of moving the building, per Eva Hoffmann's suggestion made at the
Public Hearing on July 18, 1995, to move the building to the west
approximately the width of the building. Mr. Macera stated that it
should be pointed out that the implications of moving the building
west of the proposed action was addressed in Section VII.B.1 of the
Draft Environmental Impact Statement. The DEIS was accepted and
deemed to be complete. These additional investigations result from
Ms. Hoffmann's request for analysis of consequences of moving the
building west to a new and specific location, and are marked on the
site plans submitted to the Board, which will be reviewed in a
moment. (Said site plans, designated as L1C, L1L, and L1N, are
attached hereto as Exhibits , & .)
Mr. Macera stated that the site plans cross sections were
prepared and explained what each drawing was. Mr. Macera stated
that drawing L1C is actually the original proposed plan; drawing
L1L represents the first study; and drawing L1N represents the
second study, which is following suit on the Planning Board's
request. Mr. Macera stated that these would be versions of
preliminary evaluations of our analysis to move the complex to the
west as requested. An initial explanation of the study reveals
that movement of the building to the west, certainly west of the
® original proposal, and west of the proposed site that was
identified as Alternative B -3 in the DEIS, we have found will
produce both negative as well as positive consequences with respect
Planning Board Minutes 30 September 19, 1995
• APPROVED 10/17/95
to several items. Mr. Macera stated that he would like to list
those items for the record, and then go back to individual issues
to try to get a better understanding and to comprehend what is
actually in those drawings. Mr. Macera stated that he would like
to list it by elements that he think have been raised over time as
issues of concern. Mr. Macera stated that the foremost concern has
been identified as the issue of the height of the complex and the
objective of moving the building to the west. Mr.,Macera stated
that L1C is moot because it is the original plan, so therefore
there is not consequence of that particular plan, it remains the
same. L1L moves the building and reduces the high roof ridge
approximately 8 feet from the existing proposed plan. L1N reduces
the high roof ridge approximately 3 feet from the existing proposed
plan. Mr. Macera continued with the following comparisons between
drawings L1C, L1L, and L1N:
With respect to the issue of a Sewage Ejector System:
Drawing L1C does not require system
Drawing L1L would require system to be installed
Drawing L1N would require system to be installed
Mr. Macera stated that the estimated cost of a Sewage Ejector
System would be ±$100,000, which excludes operating maintenance and
other concerns. Mr. Macera stated that they were investigating
that now, and that this information is preliminary for the purposes
of tonight's discussion only.
With respect to the principal Parking Lot location:
Drawing L1C - located to the south away from the vista
Drawing L1L - essentially the same as L1C
Drawing L1N - moved to the north and somewhat below the
overlook and brings the parking lot into the
foreground of the view from that overlook
With respect to intrus
Drawing L1C - No
Drawing L1L - Sign
on the
wall (s
Drawing L1N - No
ion on the wetlands area:
intrusion
ificant intrusion with consequential effects
ecosystem, and would have to add retaining
associated with that.
intrusion
Mr. Macera stated that L1L and L1N may damage the rock structure
causing possible drainage of the pond. Mr. Macera stated that
there would be the added cost of retaining wall(s).
With respect to the grades:
Drawing L1C - Acceptable to meet program requirements and
ingress /egress for the facility.
Drawing L1L - Not acceptable
• Drawing L1N - Acceptable to meet program requirements and
ingress /egress for the facility.
Planning Board Minutes 31 September 19, 1995
• APPROVED 10/17/95
Mr. Macera stated that both L1L and L1N require more pavement, with
its consequential effects on the environment as well as adding to
the cost of the project.
With respect to Site Disturbance:
Drawing L1C - approximately 8 acres being disturbed
Drawing L1L - approximately 14 acres being disturbed
Drawing L1N - approximately 8.5 acres being disturbed
Mr. Macera stated that
clearly
the cost and the environmental
disturbances would be
modest to significant based on the
two
alternatives. Mr. Macera stated
that L1L and L1N require to
meet
acceptable engineering
practices
grade onto the Ithaca College
property and certainly
raises new
questions to be addressed
and
resolved.
With respect to Resident Use:
Drawing L1C - acceptable
Drawing L1L - The roads would be too steep
Drawing L1N - have been able to mitigate that and find that
the road structures are acceptable
Mr. Macera stated that clearly steeper and greater slopes would
• make the site less attractive to potential residents given their
concerns regarding mobility and ambulation. Mr. Macera stated that
it creates difficulties for residents to use the property, in
Ithacare's judgement, for both passive and recreational purposes.
With respect to Emergency Access:
Drawing L1C - acceptable
Drawing L1L - acceptable
Drawing L1N - at the present time, is unacceptable because it
creates poor access and unacceptable risks
primarily associated with life safety.
With respect to Rock Excavation:
Drawing L1C - a matter of record
Drawing L1L - approximately five t
compared to the L1C ac
Drawing L1N - approximately three
rock when compared to
imes the amount of rock when
tion
to four times the amount of
the L1C action
Mr. Macera stated that it is difficult to estimate the cost, at
this point in time, without considering the qualities of that rock
and without the appropriate geotechnical studies. Mr. Macera
stated that Ithacare is estimating the cost for excavation of the
rock -to be approximately $60,000 to $100,000. Mr. Macera stated
that they have not addressed the consequences of environmental
• aspects of that excavation process.
Planning Board Minutes 32 September 19, 1995
0 APPROVED 10/17/95
Attorney Barney asked if the dollar estimate was applicable
for both alternatives L1L and L1N.
Mr. Macera stated that Carl Guy may be best able to answer Mr.
Barney's question.
Mr. Guy stated that the estimate was reasonably within the
range when considering both alternatives L1L and L1N.
Attorney Barney stated that there was not a lot of difference
between the two alternatives themselves.
Mr. Guy stated that, as far as additional rock excavation,
there is not a lot of difference.
With respect to Utilities:
Drawing L1C - being the standard
Drawing L1L - would need an additional 50 to 60 feet for
connection
Drawing L1N - would need an additional 50 to 60 feet for
connection
Mr. Macera stated that there would be additional cost to be
considered, but that he had not quantified that, because it is not
significant relative to some of these other costs for the
alternatives.
With respect to the pond outlet:
Drawing
L1C -
not adversely
impacted
Drawing
L1L -
would need to
be
relocated
Drawing
L1N -
would need.to
be
relocated
Mr.Macera stated
that there
was
needed consideration for
environmental
consequences
and additional
costs incurred.
With respect to the overlook:
Drawing L1C - no change
Drawing L1L - no change from L1C proposal
Drawing L1N - would require a modest re- design to the overlook
due to the building and parking layout
Mr. Macera stated that due to building and parking layout, L1N
would cause a very steep slope to occur directly below the
overlook, and that there were safety concerns as well.
With respect to Geotechnical Studies:
Drawing L1C - none
Drawing L1L - $4,000 approximately
Drawing L1N - $4,000 approximately
•
Planning Board Minutes 33 September 19, 1995
• APPROVED 10/17/95
Mr.Macera stated that in looking at the relocation of the building,
and clearly moving into areas that the Scoping instrument had
originally, strongly suggested be avoided, including steep slopes
and wetland areas.
With respect to mature tree stands:
Drawing L1C - 0.1 acres would be impacted
Drawing L1L - + 2 acres would be destroyed
Drawing L1N - 0.5 acres that would be impacted
With respect to Program implications, the ability to provide
housing as well as support services:
Drawing L1C - acceptable and workable
Drawing L1L - not acceptable, extreme difficulties in meeting
the residents programmatic needs
Drawing L1N - not acceptable due to no possible emergency
access
With respect to Environmental Aesthetics:
Drawing L1C - Good
Drawing L1L - Poor environmentally aesthetic characteristics
Drawing L1N - Poor environmentally aesthetic characteristics
• Mr. Macera stated that L1L and L1N would disturb more site than
"necessary" and will cause the building to appear to be deeply
embedded into the hill.
Mr.
Macera stated, in conclusion,
it should be noted
that
these are preliminary findings related
to this one issue only.
Town of Ithaca
and Ithacare representatives are scheduled to
meet
tomorrow
(9/20/95) for the first time to
begin a discussion of
the
specific
issues, the questions, and the
information that will
be
required
by the DEIS, at least to be responded to resulting
from
the DEIS
and the Public Hearing. Mr.
Macera stated that
the
information
gained from this meeting will
be used by the Town
to
prepare the Final Environmental Impact Statement,
Mr. Macera stated that as a general overview of Ithacare's
approach, drawings L1L specifically represents a literal
interpretation of Ms. Hoffmann's suggestion that was made of moving
the building due west. Mr. Macera stated that from that, the
parking areas that would be servicing the western wing of the
building are located between the pond and the westerly wing.
However, because of the encroachment upon the ponds to maintain the
pond, to meet Town criteria, we had to redevelop the infrastructure
and roadways to permit access for both service and emergency
vehicles to the north side of the property, creating a significant
additional invasion of the land as well as potential impacts
associated with encroachment on Ithaca College property. Mr.
• Macera stated when Ithacare looked at the ramifications of that,
and looked at the cost, the issue of steep slopes, grades exceeding
Planning Board Minutes 34 September 19, 1995
• APPROVED 10/17/95
ADA requirements, back slopes, and the fact that the lower living
levels would be 10 to 15 feet below the pond and recognizing that
rock excavation would impact the pond, which makes it an
unacceptable alternative. Mr. Macera stated that the issue of L1N,
however, attempts to mitigate those issues by not necessarily
taking Ms. Hoffmann's suggestion literally, but by moving the
facility, not only west approximately 30 to 50 feet, but by turning
the building clockwise and moving the building approximately 10
feet to the north, to permit the building to be resituated to
provide appropriate parking and access. However, there are
problems with access and with increased costs, and clearly the
issue of having to pump all sewage presents some capital problems
and some long term maintenance and operational problems.
Board Member Hoffmann
but would like more details
like to have documentation
drawings. Ms. Hoffmann stat
up with alternative ways of
building,
stated that
about the
of the int
ed that she
looking at
she has a lot of questions
things discussed, and would
rusions pointed out in the
was glad that Ithacare came
different locations for the
Mr. Macera stated that if there are questions regarding the
issues he has shared with the Board, Ithacare's architect, Fred
• Noetscher would be able to answer most questions as he is most
versed in the issues. Mr. Macera stated that if there were
questions about construction, rock excavation and what they may
potentially encounter on the site, questions could be directed by
Carl Guy, Ithacare's construction manager from Court Street
Companies. Mr. Macera stated that there was also a drawing
referring to elevation and heights relative to both the original
proposed action and Drawing L1N because it is the most viable of
the two options.
Board Member Hoffmann asked staff if this was a good time to
ask the Ithacare people to show the Board more details, or if it
would be better to wait until after the meeting between Ithacare
representatives and Town staff that is scheduled for tomorrow.
Board Member Kenerson asked where the Town stood on the 45 day
deadline for working on the FEIS and responded to that
specifically.
Town Planner Jonathan Kanter stated that on behalf of the
Board, staff had requested an extension for preparation of the
Final Environmental Impact Statement with no definite end period to
that extension request. Mr. Kanter stated that SEQR regulations do
not require a specific time limit on, the extension. Mr. Kanter
stated that hopefully the responses in the FEIS would be put
• together fairly quickly at this point and then be brought back to
the Board. Mr. Kanter stated that the Board is able to set a time
limit if they chose to.
Planning Board Minutes 35 September 19, 1995
• APPROVED 10/17/95
Mr. Macera stated, just to get a feel of the time schedule, on
September 1, 1995, would have been the end of that 45 day period
that SEQR suggests that a response be prepared. Mr. Macera stated
that the Town did request an extension and Ithacare granted the
Town's request.
Board Member Kenerson stated that his problem is that he felt
that the Board should be addressing the DEIS as presented to us and
accept it or reject it.
Attorney Barney stated that as part of the environmental
review, comments are brought forward, and as part of the
preparation of the Final EIS the Board needs to respond to those
comments. Attorney Barney stated that, in this particular
instance, the comment happened to be made by one of the Board
members but they need to be addressed. Attorney Barney stated that
the question is in what depth of detail does the Board want them
addressed. Attorney Barney stated that the Town would need to rely
on Ithacare's experts and consultants to develop the information
from which the FEIS would be prepared by this Board. Attorney
Barney stated that the Board can not just ignore the comment.
Attorney Barney stated that the object is to find those areas where
mitigation is possible consistent with what the project sponsor can
accomplish. Attorney Barney stated that the whole purpose tonight
was to get a sense of whether or not the Board feel that with this
type of analysis brought back with more detail would be sufficient
for this Board to use to prepare its FEIS for this project.
Mr. Macera stated that Drawing L1L would reduce the high roof
ridge by eight feet, and that Drawing L1N would reduce the high
roof ridge by three feet.
Chairperson Smith indicated that the actual total increase in
cost would be helpful in determining ability to afford
alternatives.
Mr. Macera stated that the cost is estimated at $250,000 at
the front end. Mr. Macera stated that the environmental
consequences are extremely significant.
Board member Ainslie stated that the reason the building was
positioned at the proposed location was to avoid the wetlands and
to avoid encroachment upon existing standing timber and steep
•
slopes.
Board Member
James Ainslie stated that
the alternative seems
like
a tremendous
expense
to the applicant,
to change a few feet of
view.
Mr. Ainslie stated
that the objection
was the view and as he
looks
at it one
of the
alternatives would
reduce the height by
eight
feet and
one
would
reduce the height
by three feet.
Mr. Macera stated that Drawing L1L would reduce the high roof
ridge by eight feet, and that Drawing L1N would reduce the high
roof ridge by three feet.
Chairperson Smith indicated that the actual total increase in
cost would be helpful in determining ability to afford
alternatives.
Mr. Macera stated that the cost is estimated at $250,000 at
the front end. Mr. Macera stated that the environmental
consequences are extremely significant.
Board member Ainslie stated that the reason the building was
positioned at the proposed location was to avoid the wetlands and
to avoid encroachment upon existing standing timber and steep
•
slopes.
Planning Board Minutes 36 September 19, 1995
APPROVED 10/17/95
Board Member Kenerson stated that the original proposal was to
provide a facility that will function according to what their needs
are.
Chairperson Smith stated that this is the first time the Board
has had some alternatives with costs associated with them so that
there can be a better understanding of that aspect of the project.
Board
Member
Ainslie
asked
if there
was a
trade -off
with the
impact of
the wetlands
for the
three to
eight
feet of
view.
Board Member Hoffmann responded, of course,
the Board needs to have more details aboi
presentation. Ms. Hoffmann stated that she can
drawings, which are being seen for the first t
hearing the summarized presentation for the first
make a judgement,
but
Lt N
not
ime
time
that was why
[r. Macera's
look at the
tonight, and
tonight, and
Mr. Macera stated that the differences in roof ridge height do
not change from L1C to the Modified Alternative B3, because the
modifications from the proposed action to the modified B3 include
reducing the size of the building, turning the building clockwise
to move it away from the pond, and inversion of the left wing of
the residents from the wetland to the north. Mr. Macera stated
that the footprint for Modified Alternative B3 is essentially in
the same location as the proposed action, with modest adjustments
between the two proposals. Mr. Macera stated that Drawings L1L and
L1N reflect movement of the building between 30 and 50 feet to the
west, or that distance plus a few feet to the north to try to
accommodate the criteria that Ithacare has been asked to address
regarding environmental issues.
Mr. Frantz asked Mr. Macera how high the building was from the
edge of the eves to the peak of the roof.
Mr. Macera stated that the measurement from the top of the top
plate, which is under that overhang, to the top of the roof ridge
is 11 feet 3 inches.
Town Planner Jonathan Kanter stated that the Board would get
additional information from the Ithacare representatives. Mr.
Kanter stated that his desire was not to have the Board make hasty
judgements based on a brief presentation, but instead to get the
information that went into this analysis, take a look at it, and
then make a rational decision about the alternatives.
Barbara Blanchard of Planning /Environmental Research
Consultants (PERC) addressed the Board and stated that one of the
things that she and Tom Neiderkorn are working on is taking the
footprint of L1N and superimposing it on that composite
environmental drawing that had the steep slopes, poor soils, and
Planning Board Minutes 37 September 19, 1995
• APPROVED 10/17/95
the wetlands on it. Ms. Blanchard stated that PERC is working on
a view cone drawing that was presented for the action as well as
the Modified Alternative B3, Ms. Blanchard stated that there were
a couple of other items being prepared that address the visual
aspects of this project using a paste over footprint for Drawing
L1N and the profile rather than generating the entire computer
layout as was done for the original proposal. Ms. Blanchard stated
that it would be helpful to know if the information discussed would
meet the Planning Board's needs.
Chairperson Smith stated that Mr. Macera had stated that some
of the slopes were unacceptable for the residents and asked if it
would be possible to identify those slopes in one of the plans.
Mr. Macera responded by stating that Drawing L1N was somewhat
acceptable with the exception of access by emergency vehicles to
the building. The road ends at the front of the building and
access to the rear of the building is not possible at the present
time or would under different sets of circumstances be extremely
difficult. Mr. Macera stated that Drawing L1L is completely
unacceptable because the issue of backslopes, grades exceeding ADA,
issues of retaining walls and guard rails that would be required to
accommodate that would essentially develop an encampment, where
• residents would have to be forbidden from walking in certain areas,
including those with dimentia and other concerns. If the residents
were to use the grounds for passive recreation, it would be at
extreme risk for injury. Mr. Macera stated, referring back to
Drawing L1L, the issue is access to the building recognizing the
available land grades and so forth to the northern property line.
Board
Member Hoffmann stated that
she does not
see the
indication
for the emergency access on
the drawings,
and the
location of
the other restraints should be
located on the
drawings.
Assistant Town Planner Frantz discussed the differences
between the three drawings regarding access to the back of the
building. Mr. Frantz stated that on L1C there appears to be a
level platform, on L1L and L1N that does not appear possible
because there is no level area behind the proposed building, so an
emergency vehicle could not drive around the building. Mr. Frantz
stated that there is also a steep drop off at the ends and behind
the alternative building proposals.
Mr. Macera stated that on Drawings L1L and L1N slopes exceed
six percent on the first part, which is unacceptable.
Board Member Gregory Bell asked if the access for emergency
vehicles was referring to fire trucks or ambulances or some other
• type of emergency vehicles.
Planning Board Minutes 38 September 19, 1995
• APPROVED 10/17/95
Mr. Macera responded that they were referring to all types of
emergency vehicles that could be necessary in any type of
emergency.
Board Member Bell stated that on Drawing L1N, there is a
parking lot in the back of the wing that Mr. Macera had stated they
could not access.
Mr. Macera stated that there was nothing for access for over
500 feet of the back side of the building where all of the
residential units, both those at grade as well as two levels above
grade.
Ms. Blanchard stated that the Fire Chief insists on having
access.
Noel Desch stated that there was also an accessible pedestrian
pathway that the Board asked Ithacare to provide, which would be
too steep.
Board Member
Hoffmann
stated that
the area on
L1C
which is
flat was created,
so
why could not the
same thing
be
done with
Drawing L1L and L1N.
Board Member Kenerson responded, because the slope is
different.
Board Member Hoffmann stated that the slope does not appear to
be that different.
Mr. Desch stated that there would be incremental cost to
provide that flat surface, because there would be the need for a
lot more fill material. Mr. Desch asked if the Board felt that it
was a reasonable request.
Mr. Guy stated that the proposed action was a balanced site,
which means that the material on the site allows you to create a
bench without having to bring in additional fill. Mr. Guy stated
that under L1L and L1N, by moving it down the hill, he did not
believe that there was going to be enough fill on site to create
the bench area as on the proposed action. Mr. Guy stated that
there would be an increased cost, which has not been analyzed yet.
Board Member Ainslie stated that he did not feel that the
Planning Board should put this applicant or anyone else through all
of the extra expenditures of having to pump sewage, digging into
rock, and things like that at such a tremendous cost.
• Board Member Bell stated that this Board put Cornell
University through extreme cost with hundreds of thousands of
dollars of cost for planning consultants.
Planning Board Minutes
•
Attorney Barney
voluntarily. Attorney
Cornell to do the GEI.c
they would like to do
39 September 19, 1995
APPROVED 10/17/95
stated that Cornell started the process
Barney stated that this Board did not compel
Cornell came to the Town and stated that
the GEIS.
Board Member Bell stated that the process got greatly expanded
by this Board responding to endless requests from the public.
Mr. Macera addressed Mr. Bell and stated that if Ithacare had
the resources that Cornell has, the Board would not have to ask,
Ithacare would probably entertain them; but to compare Ithacare
with Cornell really does Ithacare an injustice.
Board Member Bell stated that he did not think that it does.
Mr. Bell stated that he did not think that Ithacare should go
through what Cornell University went through. Mr. Bell stated that
they went through five years and hundreds of thousands of dollars
for their process.
Chairperson Smith stated that what the Board needs to do at
this meeting is look at what has been presented, look at the
alternatives and try to determine if there is any other information
that the Board feels would be needed.
• Mr. Guy, addressing Mr. Bell's concern, stated that Cornell's
project is a planned, long term development that requires the type
of long range land use development that the Board discussed. Mr.
Guy stated that Ithacare is talking about a one time deal which is
a single project. Mr. Guy stated that Cornell is trying to plan
long range, whereas Ithacare is looking at a one time development.
Board Member Ainslie stated that Cornell University's Precinct
7 was a 50 -year proposal.
Board Member Bell stated that it is a valid comparison.
Assistant Town Planner Frantz stated that with Cornell the
proposal was for 4,000,000 square feet; Ithacare is 115,000 square
feet.
Town Planner Kanter stated that from what he has heard from
the information that has been generated, hopefully the Board will
have a chance to see the detailed documents. Mr. Kanter stated
that he thinks it sounds like it would give the Board some
additional information beyond what the Town currently has. Mr.
Kanter stated from what Ms. Blanchard had described about the
additional work being done by PERC, it is exactly the type of
information that will help the Board make some good decisions. Mr.
• Kanter stated that there would be a meeting with Ithacare
representatives and planning staff representatives to discuss the
issues related to putting the Final EIS together, looking at all of
•
•
•
Planning Board Minutes 40 September 19, 1995
APPROVED 10/17/95
the comments made at the Public Hearing and comments received
separately from that. Mr. Kanter stated that the determination of who
is going to prepare what types of responses will be made, so hopefully
that will be settled at the meeting schedule for tomorrow morning
(9/20/95), start getting the FEIS assembled and bring it back to the
Board as soon as possible. Mr. Kanter stated that included in the
packets for the Planning Board members were the individual comments
received from Town Board members regarding the DEIS. Mr. Kanter stated
that the Town Board adopted a resolution on 9/11/95 formally
acknowledging that the Planning Board is and should be Lead Agency in
this process. Mr. Kanter stated that those comments would be
considered as well.
There being no further discussion, Chairperson Smith closed the
discussion regarding the proposed Ithacare Draft Environmental Impact
Statement at 10:50 p.m.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: SEPTEMBER 5, 1995.
Motion by Robert Kenerson, seconded by Eva Hoffmann:
RESOLVED, that the Minutes of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board Meeting
of September 5, 1995, be and hereby are approved as written.
There being no further discussion, the Chair called for a vote.
Aye - Smith, Hoffmann, Ainslie, Finch, Kenerson, Bell
Nay - None.
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously.
AGENDA ITEM: OTHER BUSINESS.
Town Planner Jonathan Kanter addressed the Board and stated that
the Fee in Lieu of Parkland Local Law was approved by the Town Board at
their September 11, 1995, meeting. A copy of the resolution was
distributed to the Planning Board members at this meeting. Mr. Kanter
stated that the Local Law is in place and should be kept in mind as the
Planning Board reviews future subdivisions.
Mr. Kanter stated that there was a memorandum from the Tompkins
County Board of Representatives on Agricultural District review, and
there is a public comment period. Mr. Kanter stated that this involves
the perodic review of Ag. District No. 1, encompassing the east part of
Tompkins County. Mr. Kanter stated that there was a map that went
along with the memo and was available for anyone to review if they wish
to see it. Mr. Kanter stated that the part that is in the Town of
Ithaca is along Coddington Road and the southeast corner of the Town.
Mr. Kanter stated that the comment period allows for comments from the
public as well as municipalities to recommend changes to the County.
Board
Member
Hoffmann
asked if
Board Members were permitted to
attend the
meeting
with the
Ithacare
and Town representatives.
•
U
•
Planning Board Minutes 41 September 19, 1995
APPROVED 10/17/95
Town Planner Kanter responded, yes, as long as no more than 4
members attended. Mr. Kanter stated that the meeting was to be held on
9/20/95 at 9:30 a.m. in Town Hall.
ADJOURNMENT
Upon MOTION, Chairperson Smith declared the September 19, 1995,
meeting of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board to be duly adjourned at
10:59 p.m.
10/2/95.
Respectfully submitted,
aup
Starr Hays,
Recording Secretary,
Town of Ithaca Planning Board.
Mary Bryant,
Administrative Secretary.