Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB Minutes 1989-04-04 F118) TOWN OF ITI-AC C Date • TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD Clowk APRIL 4 , 1989 The Town of Ithaca Planning Board met in regular Session on Tuesday , April 4 , 1989 , in Town Hall , 126 East Seneca Street , Ithaca , New York , at 7 : 30 p . m . PRESENT : Chairman Carolyn Grigorov , Montgomery May , James Baker , Robert Miller , Stephen Smith , Robert Kenerson , Virginia Langhans , William Lesser , John C . Barney ( Town Attorney ) , Susan C . Beeners ( Town Planner ) , George R . Frantz ( Assistant Town Planner ) . f ALSO PRESENT : Celia Bowers , Bruce Brittain , Harriet B . Brittain , Douglas B . Brittain , Paul B . Booth , Elizabeth Fabbroni , Yolanda C . Garza , James H . Fenner , David M . Axenfeld , Gene Ball , Ann Clarke , Webb & Margaret Fiser , R . Grippi , Bruce Rich , G . W . Dengler , Doria Higgins , Douglas Pokorney , Scott Lucas , A . M . Chambliss , Peter Trowbridge , Edward Austen , Katie Herson , Patricia Williams , Kristie Hotchkiss , Joseph A . Burns , Barbara A . Blewitt , Les Reizes , John Whitcomb , Krys Cail , S . Grippi , Rich Armstrong , Richard Varn . • Chairman Grigorov declared the meeting duly opened at 7 : 30 p . m . and accepted for the record the Clerk ' s Affidavit of Posting and Publication of the Notice of Public Hearings in Town Hall and the Ithaca Journal on March 27 , 1989 , and March 30 , 1989 , respectively , together with the Clerk ' s Affidavit of Service by Mail of said Notice upon the various neighbors of each of the properties under discussion , upon the Tompkins County Department of Public Works , upon both the Clerk and the Building Commissioner of the City of Ithaca , upon the Tompkins County Commissioner of Planning , upon the Clerk of the Village of Trumansburg , and upon the applicants and / or agents , as appropriate , on March 29 , 1989 . Chairman Grigorov read the Fire Exit Regulations to those assembled , as required by the New York State Department of State , Office of Fire Prevention and Control . NON-AGENDA ITEM Copies of Mr . Frost ' s March 1989 Report of Building / Zoning Activities was distributed to each of the members of the Board . PUBLIC HEARING : CONSIDERATION OF A REQUEST FOR MODIFICATION OF THE TERMS OF FINAL SUBDIVISION APPROVAL WITH RESPECT TO A " DOUBLE ROW OF EVERGREENS TO BE PLANTED BY CORNELL NORTH OF LOTS 1 through 6 " , AS NOTED ON THE FOREST HOME HIGHLANDS ( FAIRWAY DRIVE ) FINAL PLAT DATED 12 / 3 / 85 , REVISED 12 / 6 / 85 , APPROVED BY THE PLANNING BOARD ON 12 / 17 / 85 . • JAMES H . FENNER , HEAD PROFESSIONAL , CORNELL UNIVERSITY GOLF COURSE , APPLICANT . Planning Board - 2 - April 4 , 1989 • Chairman Grigorov declared the Public Hearing in the above - noted matter duly opened at 7 : 39 p . m . and read aloud from the Notice of Public Hearings as posted and published and as noted above . Mr . Fenner addressed the Board and stated that the initial problem with the subdivision was with protection of the houses . Mr . Fenner said that the tee area would be realigned , and by placing a 6 ' high fence with walk - through 3 ' inside the property line it would stop bouncing and rolling balls from entering the neighboring property . Mr . Fenner stated that , to place a double row of trees on the line would mean that the balls would have to be picked up by hand , along with mowing or cutting the area by hand , noting that that would be a burden . Mr . Fenner said that he has talked with Ralph Varn , the developer and he concurred that the fence would be a satisfactory solution to the hazard . Mr . Fenner offered that the driving range has been restricted to iron clubs only . Mr . Fenner stated that he felt the value of the properties would be higher if the property had a view of the golf course . Chairman Grigorov noted that this was a Public Hearing and asked if there were anyone from the public who had any comments or questions . Bruce Brittain of 135 Warren Road addressed the Board and read aloud a statement . [ Statement attached as Exhibit 1 . ] Betty Fabbroni of 127 Warren Road spoke from the floor and stated that she owns 4 lots on Fairway Drive , and her residence is 127 Warren Road . Ms . Fabbroni [ indicating on map ] noted that Lot # 6 faces the golf course , and that she also owns Lots No . 7 , 8 , and 9 . Ms . Fabbroni stated that she prefers not to have the trees , because she prefers the open view . Kristie Hotchkiss of 408 Winthrop Drive approached the Board and stated that she owns a lot on Fairway Drive and felt that it would not be in the best interest of the property to plant the trees . Ms . Hotchkiss stated that she owns Lot No . 4 . Town Planner Susan Beeners offered that , at the present time , there are existing homes on Lots No . 1 , 2 , 3 , and 5 . Richard Varn , developer of the properties , spoke from the floor and stated that he still owns Lot No . 1 . Mr . Varn commented that he would rather not have the trees planted . Chairman Grigorov wondered what kind of fence was being discussed . Mr . Fenner replied that it is a 1 " X 3 " welded wire , 6 ' high fence , 4 " X 4 ' posts , and set in concrete . Yolanda Garza of 10 Fairway Drive approached the Board and stated that she owns Lot No . 5 , and does not want trees planted . • Douglas Brittain addressed the Board and stated that he does not live on Fairway Drive , he lives at 135 Warren Road , Mr . Brittain Planning Board - 3 - April 4 , 1989 • remarked that he felt a 6 ' high fence would not stop any ball that is aimed for a house . Mr . Brittain said that , if Cornell wants to easily gather balls without going underneath trees , they are perfectly free to install a fence on the northern side of the buffer zone , adding , there was a fence there , but it was taken down . Mr . Brittain , remarking on enforcement , noted that he would suggest the following : a . Delay enforcement as has been done for the past several years . b . Perhaps a law should be passed that Cornell would pay for damage done by golf balls . There appearing to be no one else from the public who wished to speak to this matter , Chairman Grigorov closed the Public Hearing at 7 : 54 p . m . and brought the matter back to the Board for discussion . Virginia Langhans stated that the open space was given in lieu of a park , adding , it really does not serve the development as such , it serves Cornell . Mr . Fenner said that the direction of the driving range has been moved . Mr . May , directing his comment to Mr . Fenner , wondered if there were some reason why the agreement with the Brittains has not been complied with . Mr . May referred to the Exhibit 1 , April 15 , 1984 • letter from Attorneys Adams , Theisen & Nash , addressed to Prof . W . Lambert Brittain. . Mr . May wondered if the signs were put up , as per the agreement . Mr . Brittain answered , no . Mr . Fenner stated that the signs have been put up , but they get stolen periodically . Mr . May wondered what the Town ' s liability would be if someone were hurt or if someone ' s property was damaged by a golf ball . Att orney Barney responded that ' he thought it would be pretty remote . Attorney Barney offered that if Cornell were chasing the golfer , then the Town ' s response could be to chase Cornell , as they are the ones creating the situation . Ms . Langhans commented that it has been .four years since the original request for the trees . Mr . Lesser wondered if there was any authority , if the requirement should be rescinded , to demand that , indeed , the driving range remain re - oriented and limited to iron clubs . Att orney Barney offered that if Cornell was going to do away with the trees , then some conditions should be imposed . Ms . Langhans , directing her comment to Mr . Fenner , wondered how many balls have landed in backyards on the other side of the fence since it has been realigned . Mr . Fenner answered , not many . There appearing to be no further discussion , Chairman Grigorov asked if anyone were prepared to make a motion . MOTION by Mr . Montgomery May , seconded by Mr . James Baker : • WHEREAS : Planning Board - 4 - April 4 , 1989 • 1 . This action is the consideration of a request for modification of the terms of final subdivision approval with respect to a " double row of evergreens to be planted by Cornell north of Lots 1 through 6 " , as noted on the Forest Home Highlands ( Fairway Drive ) Final Plat dated 12 / 3 / 85 , revised 12 / 6 / 85 , approved by the Planning Board on 12 / 17 / 85 . 2 . This is an Unlisted action for which the Planning Board is legislatively determined to act as Lead Agency for environmental review , and for which the Town Planner , on April 4 , 1989 , has recommended a negative determination of environmental significance . THEREFORE , IT IS RESOLVED : That the Planning Board , acting as Lead Agency for environmental review , make and hereby does make a negative determination of environmental significance for this action . There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote . Aye - Grigorov , Langhans , May , Baker , Ken erson , Lesser , Miller , Smith . Nay - None . The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously . • MOTION by Dr . William Lesser , seconded by Mr . Robert Miller : WHEREAS : 1 . This action is the consideration of a request for modification of the terms of final subdivision approval with respect to a " double row of evergreens to be planted by Cornell north of Lots 1 through 6 " , as noted on the Forest Home Highlands ( Fairway Drive ) Final Plat dated 12 / 3 / 85 , revised 12 / 6 / 85 , approved by the Planning Board on 12 / 17 / 85 . 2 . This is an Unlisted action for which the Planning Board , acting as Lead Agency for environmental review , has , on April 4 , 1989 , made a negative determination of environmental significance . 3 . The Planning Board , at Public Hearing on April 4 , 1989 , has reviewed the request for modification and other application submissions . THEREFORE , IT IS RESOLVED : That the Planning Board determine and hereby does determine the following . a . There have been no objections to the request for modification by • the residents of Lots 1 through 6 at the subject subdivision . Planning Board - 5 - April 4 , 1989 • b . The potential impacts of stray golf balls which were originally proposed to be mitigated through the planting of a tree buffer are now substantially mitigated through the re - orientation of the golf driving range . AND FURTHER , IT IS RESOLVED : That the Planning Board grant and hereby does grant approval to the requested modification of the terms of final subdivision approval , as proposed , conditioned upon the following . 1 . That Cornell maintain the re - orientation of the driving range to reduce the likelihood of stray balls entering the yards of Lots 1 through 6 . 2 . That Cornell limit the clubs used on the driving range to irons only . 3 . That Cornell agree that . this modification may be rescinded in the future if , in the judgment of the Planning Board , an undue number of balls are landing in the yards of Lots 1 through 6 . There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote . Aye - Grigorov , Langhans , May , Baker , Ken erson , Lesser , Miller , Smith . • Nay - None . The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously . Chairman Grigorov declared the Consideration of a Request for Modification of . the Final Subdivision Plat for Forest Home Highlands duly closed at 8 : 10 p . m . PUBLIC HEARING : CONSIDERATION OF SITE PLAN APPROVAL FOR A PROPOSED 5 , 000 SQ . FT . COMMERCIAL BUILDING , WITH PARKING AND OUTDOOR DISPLAY , FOR CANNON RECREATION AND SPA OF ITHACA , PROPOSED TO BE LOCATED ON A 2 . 016 ± ACRE PARCEL PROPOSED TO BE SUBDIVIDED FROM PARCEL NO . 6 - 33 - 3 - 2 . 21 FOR WHICH PRELIMINARY SUBDIVISION APPROVAL , WITH CONDITIONS , WAS GRANTED BY THE PLANNING BOARD ON MARCH 71 1989 , LIGHT INDUSTRIAL DISTRICT . EARLAND AND ROBERT MANCINI , OWNERS ; DAVID AXENFELD , APPLICANT . Chairman Grigorov declared the Public Hearing in the above - noted matter duly opened at 8 : 11 p . m . and read aloud from the Notice of Public Hearings as posted and published and as noted above . Mr . Axenfeld approached the Board and appended maps to the bulletin board . Mr . Axenfeld stated that he is proposing a 5 , 000 sq . ft . building to house a swimming pool company , as well as a tenant lawn and garden • store , or a sporting goods store . Mr . Axenfeld noted that there would be a septic system , driveway , and 25 parking spaces - two of which will be for handicapped persons . Mr . Axenfeld said that there would Planning Board - 6 - April 4 , 1989 • also be a loading dock . Mr . Axenfeld added that the reason the driveway is so long is because of the elevation being so much different between the street and where the building is actually proposed , adding , in order to get the 10 % grade , the driveway had to be changed a little more than was expected . Mr . Axenfeld noted that the well would be to the left of the proposed building , which is on the other side of the septic system . Mr . Axenfeld ' stated that there would be six outside lights consisting of three in the front , one on each side , and one in the back , commenting that the lights would be high - pressure sodium , 150 watts . Mr . Axenfeld noted that there would also be two lights to light up the display area , which would be of the high - pressure sodium type , on an angled light , and set on a 20 ' pole . Mr . Axenfeld offered that a 4 ' high chain link fence would be around the display area , with an 8 ' gate for access . Mr . Axenfeld commented that there will be a brick - front structure out front with a planter , and a sign above that . Chairman Grigorov noted that this was a Public Hearing and asked if anyone present wished to speak . No one spoke . Chairman Grigorov closed the Public Hearing at 8 : 16 p . m . and brought the matter back to the Board for discussion . Virginia Langhans wondered about the size of the actual sign . Mr . Axenfeld responded that the actual sign would be 5 - 1 / 2 feet in width and 4 feet in height . • Robert Miller wondered what variances were being asked for . Assistant Town Planner George Frantz responded that the area is zoned Light Industrial , adding that the variances Mr . Axenfeld is going to request from the ZBA are the required variance of 150 ' front yard set -back , and the 50 ' rear yard set - back , adding , the proposed building is approximately 140 ' from the road . William Lesser wondered if the display area was considered a structure . Robert Kenerson commented that if a driveway is considered a structure , then a display area of this type should be considered a structure . Town Planner Susan Beeners offered that she thought of this situation as being rather ambiguous , as far as determinations from the Zoning Officer , and as to whether those are structures , and also whether the prohibition against outdoor storage in Light Industrial Districts is likened to this type of a display area , commenting that she thought this would be something the ZBA would have to determine . Mr . Frantz noted that the display area is approximately 75 ' from the right - of -way to the edge of the fence around the display area . Ms . Langhans asked about a display area in a Light Industrial Zone . Mr . Frantz responded that he had consulted with the Zoning Officer , Andrew Frost , and he indicated that it is allowed . Mr . Lesser stated that , personally , he is wary of an outside display of this fixed and permanent type of display , adding , it seems to him that it would be very likely if one gets into that , then it would continue on down the remainder of the strip . Mr . Lesser said that , in his • opinion , two swimming pools with a fence around them , with a 20 ' high light pole is a very obvious outside display . Mr . Axenfeld stated that both of the pools can actually be removed with a backhoe and Planning Board - 7 - April 4 , 1989 • filled in . Mr . Axenfeld said that it would be permanent while he occupied the building . Mr . Lesser , inquiring about the purpose of the display , wondered if Mr . Axenfeld was trying to attract the traffic on Route 13 to his business , or were the pools being used as models for customers . Mr . Axenfeld replied that the pools would be used as models . Mr . Lesser wondered , if the pools are used as models , would it be possible to relocate them so they are not so clearly visible from the road . Mr . Axenfeld answered , that could be done , but with the elevations he did not know where they could be located . Mr . May stated that it seemed to him that the pools were permanent structures . Chairman Grigorov asked about the landscaping . Mr . Axenfeld responded that there would be grass in the front of the building with a concrete walkway , adding that all the other areas would also be grass , along with some shrubs in the front , and commenting that he does not want trees blocking the visibility of the store . Virginia Langhans asked if the pools would have water in them . Mr . Axenfeld answered , yes . Mr . Lesser wondered when the area would be illuminated ; would it just be during store hours , or would it be lighted permanently over the display area . Mr . Axenfeld responded that the illumination would be on a timer , probably in the summertime from 9 : 00 p . m . to 10 : 30 p . m . Mr . Lesser wondered where the tenant would be occupying the • building . Mr . Axenfeld [ indicating on map ] stated that it would be on the left where the " blue " is at the very top . Ms . Beeners wondered where the sign would be located for the tenant , with Mr . Axenfeld commenting that the tenant would have a portion of the main sign . Mr . Lesser said that his preference would be to move the display area back so that it would appear , visually , as if it were essentially close to or integrated with the structure , and not have a 20 ' high light pole illuminating it . Mr . May remarked that where the display area is located it gives a more balanced appearance to the lot . Ms . Beeners stated that the lights would be a yellowish antique color . Ms . Beeners wondered if the lights could be slightly downcast and not shining to the street , but something that would direct the light down for security purposes . Mr . Axenfeld responded , yes , adding that the one light pole by the handicapped area could be eliminated . There appearing to be no further discussion , Chairman Grigorov asked if anyone were prepared to make a motion . MOTION by Mr . Robert Kenerson , seconded by Mrs . Virginia Langhans : WHEREAS : 1 . This action is the Consideration of Site Plan Approval for a • proposed 5 , 000 square foot commercial building , with parking and outdoor display , for Cannon Recreation and Spa of Ithaca , proposed to be located on a 2 . 016 ± acre parcel proposed to be Planning Board - 8 - April 4 , 1989 • subdivided from Parcel No . 6 - 33 - 3 - 2 . 2 , located on Elmira Road ( N . Y . S . Rt . 13 ) approximately 900 feet south of its intersection with Five Mile Drive ( N . Y . S . Rt . 13A ) , for which Preliminary Subdivision Approval , with conditions , was granted by the Planning Board on March 7 , 1989 . 2 . This is an Unlisted action for which the Town of Ithaca Planning Board is legislatively determined to act as Lead Agency for environmental review . 3 . The Town Planning Department has recommended that a negative determination of environmental significance be made for this action . THEREFORE , IT IS RESOLVED : That the Planning Board , acting as Lead Agency for environmental review , make and hereby does make a negative determination of environmental significance for this action . There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote . Aye - Grigorov , Langhans , May , Baker , Ken erson , Lesser , Miller , Smith . Nay - None . • The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously . MOTION by Mr . Montgomery May , seconded by Mr . Robert Kenerson : WHEREAS : 1 . This action is the Consideration of Site Plan Approval for a proposed 5 , 000 square foot commercial building , with parking and outdoor display , for Cannon Recreation and Spa of Ithaca , proposed to be located on a 2 . 016 ± acre parcel proposed to be subdivided from Parcel No . 6 - 33 - 3 - 2 . 2 , located on Elmira Road ( N . Y . S . Rt . 13 ) approximately 900 feet south of its intersection with Five Mile Drive ( N . Y . S . Rt . 13A ) , for which Preliminary Subdivision Approval , with conditions , was granted by the Planning Board on March 7 , 1989 . 2 . This is an Unlisted action for which the Town of Ithaca Planning Board , acting as Lead Agency for environmental review , has , on April 4 , 1989 , made a negative determination of environmental significance . 3 . The Planning Board , at Public Hearing on April 4 , 1989 , has reviewed the Short Environmental Assessment Form , site plan , and other application submissions . THEREFORE , IT IS RESOLVED : • That the Planning Board grant and hereby does grant approval to the site plan as proposed , with the following conditions : Planning Board - 9 - April 4 , 1989 1 . The grant of any necessary variances by the Zoning Board of Appeals . 2 . Approval of driveway entrance location and design by New York State Department of Transportation . 3 . Approval of final landscape plans by Town Planning staff . 4 . That there be no additional buildings approved for the site without full consideration of the provision of a second means of access into the site . There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote . Aye - Grigorov , Langhans , May , Baker , Kenerson , Miller , Smith . Nay - Lesser . The MOTION was declared to be carried . Chairman Grigorov declared the matter of Consideration of Site o Plan Approval for Cannon Recreation and Spa of Ithaca duly closed at 8 : 44 p . m . PUBLIC HEARING : CONSIDERATION OF PRELIMINARY SUBDIVISION APPROVAL WITH RESPECT TO THE PROPOSED " INDIAN CREEK RETIREMENT COMMUNITY " , FOR THE PROPOSED SUBDIVISION OF TOWN OF ITHACA TAX PARCEL NO . 6 - 24 - 1 - 23 AND A PORTION OF TOWN OF ITHACA TAX PARCEL NO . 6 - 24 - 1 - 32 WITH ACCESS ONTO TRUMANSBURG ROAD , 69 ± ACRES TOTAL , INTO A 60 - UNIT SINGLE - OR TWO- FAMILY ATTACHED CLUSTERED SUBDIVISION , AN 80 - UNIT RETIREMENT CONDOMINIUM/ COOPERATIVE , AND PUBLIC OPEN SPACE . CMH ASSOCIATES , OWNER ; HOLT ARCHITECTS , AGENT . Chairman Grigorov declared the Public Hearing in the above - noted matter duly opened at 8 : 45 p . m . and read aloud from the Notice of Public Hearings as posted and published and as noted above . Mr . Scott Lucas , developer of the Indian Creek Retirement Community , addressed the Board and stated that the Town Board had voted to create a Special Land Use District to enable the project to move forward . Mr . Lucas offered that the project is a retirement community , and in the language adopted by the Town Board , occupancy will be restricted to residents over 54 years of age , adding , there are substantial restrictions on rentals , which the developer is quite comfortable with , noting that the expectation is that the units should be occupied by their owners , and hopefully , the restrictions will keep speculators and investors from buying units , as that is not the developer ' s objective . Continuing , Mr . Lucas stated that the site plan , as presented tonight , is essentially the site plan that has been viewed at the previous two meetings of the Planning Board . Mr . Lucas stated that • the main structure , which houses the 80 apartment - style units has been changed a little bit , in response to concerns that were raised at the Town Board meeting , and also concerns on the developer ' s part , about ` Planning Board - 10 - April 4 , 1989 • the size of the building , adding , they have been struggling with a way to make the building less monolithic , and less linear , commenting that they have added some directional changes in the building , although the size of the footprint ( square footage ) remains the same . Mr . Lucas said that the detached units are in the same configuration . Chairman Grigorov noted that this was a Public Hearing and asked if there were anyone from the public who had any comments or questions . A voice from the back of the room wondered where the project was located . Mr . Lucas answered that it was on the west side of Trumansburg Road , 1 / 2 mile beyond the Tompkins Community Hospital , adding that it is the prior Babcock property . Mr . Lucas offered that the project consists of 140 units on a acre portion of the 160 - acre parcel owned by the Babcocks . Rosalind Grippi , of 423 E . Seneca Street , spoke from the floor and wondered [ pointing to map ] what the structure was on the south end . Mr . Peter Trowbridge , Architect for the project , responded that that was the community gardens . Doria Higgins , of 2 Hillcrest Drive , spoke from the floor and stated that she wanted to bring the Board ' s attention to two aspects of the negiota. tions between the Town and Mr . Lucas , commenting that • she thought this needs clarification and / or rectification . Ms . Higgins read from a prepared statement . [ Statement attached hereto as Exhibit 2 . ] George Dengler , of 250 DuBois Road , spoke from the floor and wondered what sort of senior citizen housing this was going to be ; are there going to be any security provisions , provisions for food , and bus provisions ? Mr . Dengler offered that he has viewed some of these projects , and was considering moving to something like this , but he felt it was very , very expensive . Mr . Lucas stated that there would not be nurses or doctors on hand , as it is not a home for people who are in need of substantial medical care . Mr . Lucas offered that he was working with the Hospital to develop a contract and provide an array of services that include security , grounds maintenance , snow and trash removal , and also to have available for people who want to purchase them , services like meals , housekeeping , and it is intended to have a transportation service as part of the package , such as a mini -bus . Mr . Dengler wondered what it would cost per month . Mr . Lucas responded that the Hospital should be consulted , because they are the ones who are going to put the prices on the services , commenting that in other places meal services tend to run $ 200 . 00 - $ 300 . 00 per month , which includes preparing the meals , serving the meals ,. and clean - up . Mr . Lucas said that all the units are two- bedroom units with full kitchens , with the detached units being duplex and single - family - style units , adding , the units in the larger building are all two - bedroom apartment - style units with single floor is structure . Mr . Lucas stated that it is certainly true that he hopes to make a profit on the project . Mr . Lucas noted that his goal was to have the housing supportable for people who currently live in homes Planning Board - 11 - April 4 , 1989 that no longer suit them , and noted that his hope would be that people would be able to , essentially , sell the homes they live in now , and use that money to live at the retirement community . Mr . Lucas stated that it is not low income housing , but he does recognize the need for low income housing in nearly every community . Mr . Lucas stated that he had a couple of comments regarding the site - one being that for low income people the subject site is very far from town , commenting that low income housing tends to be successful near the core areas of communities where a variety of services are available , not just shopping , but social services . Mr . Lucas noted that the other issue which he thought needs to be raised was the fact that he has had ongoing discussions with the Town about the developer paying a substantial portion of the cost of the infrastructure , such as improving the water system , and sewer system in West Hill , adding , those are substantial costs , and they are willing to look at those , but there is a trade - off , one cannot add substantial costs and then have the housing be available to people of moderate or modest means . Mr . Lucas offered that it is a zero sum game , one can either cut expenses to the bone , which means the Town bears the cost of the infrastructure , or the project can support the cost of the infrastructure , or the project can go away , which is an option that the Planning Board has available to them . Mr . Lucas said that his sense is that , while he does not address all of the needs in the community at the current time , they do address a significant need , as he does not see anyone else providing housing of this type . Mr . Lucas stated that Cornell , as near as he can tell , is still flirting with some kind of retirement component at the Savage Farm , adding , when and how that would resolve itself remains to be taken care of , as the people in Cayuga Heights can judge a lot better than he can . Again , Mr . Lucas stated that he was trying to address one need out of a number of needs that the community has . There appearing to be no one else from the public who wished to speak to this matter , Chairman Grigorov closed the Public Hearing at 8 : 55 p . m . and brought the matter back to the Board for discussion . Mr . Trowbridge offered that the four units discussed at the last Planning Board meeting are shown on the current revised site plan . Virginia Langhans wondered if the water and sewer extended that far out , or will there be an extension . Ms . Beeners responded that there would be an extension , adding that the extension is actually something that has been planned by the Town for a number of years , commenting , an agreement is being reached with Mr . Lucas that part of that cost would be shared by his project and , indeed , he would be putting in about half of the watermain extension along Trumansburg Road , from the Professional Building . Chairman Grigorov wondered about higher taxes being caused , by development . Ms . Beeners answered that she thought that matter has been referred to the Planning Consultant . • Ms . Beeners inquired as to whether the Fire Department has approved the plan . Mr . Chambliss of HOLT Architects responded that a LI Planning Board - 12 - April 4 , 1989 • meeting would be held with the Fire Department officials on Thursday afternoon , April 6 , 1989 , commenting , a preliminary meeting had been held , at which time the fire officials viewed the project plans . Attorney Barney stated that he has a problem in terms of subdivision approval of this particular plat , adding that he was not quite sure what it is that approval is being requested for , in terms of a subdivision . Attorney Barney noted that the buildings were numbered in terms of subdividing , but wondered what was being sold or offered to an individual . Mr . Chambliss responded that as to the detached units , each duplex represents two dwelling units , and as to the attached buildings , each numbered rectangle represents two , with 80 being the total number of units . Attorney Barney stated that under the Town Subdivision Regulations dimensions are needed . Ms . Beeners offered that , in trying to work out what is a rather unusual type of a subdivision , it is the developer ' s intention to refer to some of the diagrams within the application itself which show the typical dimensions of the units and their typical locations . Ms . Beeners stated that some of the notes on the plan do need to be made a little more accurate so one knows what drawings are being discussed . William Lesser wondered about land being offered with the units . Mr . Trowbridge answered that there is not land associated with the duplexes , one is basically buying the interior shell of a building . Attorney Barney wondered if the entire project was all condominium , • with Mr . Trowbridge answering , yes ; it is not fee simple , it is similar to other projects in the Town where one would be buying the sheetrock and everything on the interior . Mr . Trowbridge offered that what is being sold is a condominium unit without land , adding , each unit has been numbered and located in a fixed location . Attorney Barney remarked that the units do not show any dimensions of where the units are located on each lot , and asked Mr . Trowbridge to point out on the map how many feet from the north line of the property line is Unit # 6 . Mr . Trowbridge indicated that that unit is not related to the property line , and the road is fixed in space and the road is a horizontally aligned road , and each unit is stationed along the road , it is not fixed to the property line . Monty May commented that as a condominium , there has to be a Homeowners ' Agreement which the Planning Board has to review , prior to preliminary review . Ms . Beeners stated that she had advised the developer to present a summary of the pertinent parts of the condominium arrangement and , indeed , restrictions for tonight ' s meeting , adding , a summary was appropriate to inform the Planning Board , but additional information would be appropriate for final subdivision approval . Monty May stated that for a condominium the Homeowners ' Agreement has to be very explicit and approved by the Attorney General , Town Board , etc . Ms . Beeners offered that the Planning Board has normally looked at it to find out what the substance was going to be , rather than seeing the whole 400 pages , which is normally something the Town Board takes up , but noted it is up to the Planning Board ' s discretion whether there is anything in the Subdivision Regulations on this . Attorney Barney wondered what • was going to happen with the open space . Ms . Beeners stated that minimum yard set - backs are presented , along with typical ` dimensions for units and their placement within the big building are shown on the Planning Board - 13 - April 4 , 1989 • diagrams , adding , there is an attempt to have notations on the drawings to refer to those diagrams . Ms . Beeners stated that it was correct in that each unit is not specifically dimensioned to a property line . Attorney Barney noted that the subdivision that is probably most comparable to the one in question , in some respects , is Eastwood Commons , commenting that , for instance , when one looks at the Eastwood Commons subdivision maps they have detailed , by dimension , that the actual typical building , but not every building , is this way , a certain number of feet , spaced from the outside wall along the north line is 20 feet , south 30 feet , and east 15 feet , or whatever it works out to . Attorney Barney stated that he does not see the detailed dimensions on the subject plan that is before the Board . Mr . Trowbridge remarked that it is the scale at which the proposed project is being developed , and noted that there is some question about phasing at some final subdivision approval stage . Mr . Trowbridge noted that the developer is before the Board for a preliminary site plan approval for the entire site , and as they come back for final , the developer would be looking at a particular phase of the project , which will get into greater detail . Mr . Trowbridge stated that the developer is looking to the Board for some direction in terms of preliminary site plan approval , commenting , the next time would be for Phase I of final site plan approval , with a much tighter dimensional drawing . Mr . Trowbridge stated that he thought the issue was primarily one of scale . Mr . Trowbridge stated that he was asking the Board for some kind of clarification as to what level of resolution the Board requires for preliminary site plan approval . • Chairman Grigorov wondered if there were something about the Homeowners ' Agreement . Ms . Beeners referred to a letter addressed to her from Scott R . Lucas , dated March 27 , 1989 , which is attached hereto as Exhibit 3 . Mr . May noted that Mr . Lucas agreed with the age restriction , but felt that was a long way from the Homeowners ' Agreement , or even a synopsis of it . Ms . Beeners commented that the rental restriction should be noted , along with the proposed tree cutting restriction that no trees over 3 " would be cut from the buffer zone , as the Planning Board had requested . Chairman Grigorov wondered if it was usually a requirement to see the Homeowners ' Agreement in final form , before the preliminary approval . Attorney Barney responded that , not necessarily the final form , but it seemed to him that the Planning Board had generally seen the Declaration of Condominium and Certificate of Incorporation and the Bylaws . Mr . Lucas commented that one of the constraints in the Local Law was that before the Declaration was filed with the Attorney General , it would be provided to the Town Board for the Town Attorney to review . Mr . Lucas wondered if it was a requirement to show the Attorney General ' s approval on the declaration , because it cannot be secured until the Town officials act . Mr . Lucas stated that he certainly wants to be helpful and provide the information that is needed . Mr . Lucas said that he has • constructed a couple of other condominiums and he has never been asked to provide the whole package of documents at the present level of inquiry . Mr . Lucas commented that he has a funny feeling when he Planning Board - 14 - April 4 , 1989 • leaves tonight , wanting to be helpful , but still not being clear what it is the Planning Board is asking of him . Mr . May remarked that , as far as he knew the Homeowners ' Agreement has got to be approved and recommended by the Planning Board to the Town Board . Ms . Beeners responded that that has not been her recollection , even though she was not meaning to disagree , but does remember seeing a table of contents which was enhanced to show what the contents were , that was submitted prior to final subdivision approval for Deer Run , adding , she does not recall seeing anything like a full - blown document form at the time of any preliminary approval . Mr . May offered that the one he was thinking about is Eastwood Commons , and as he remembers , that came before the Planning Board , two , maybe three times for revisions before it was ever approved . by the Planning Board , and passed on to the Town Board , in a great deal of detail . Attorney Barney stated that the subdivision requirements , at the preliminary stage , call for restrictive covenants , if any , which in his opinion is the Declaration of Condominium . Attorney Barney stated that he thought the Planning Board needs to know , or would want to know just exactly how this would be governed . Attorney Barney noted that the developer would govern it for a while , but there is usually a provision for a transition to the association , and ultimately the association takes over , commenting that he felt the Board did not need , at this juncture , a detailed completed , final version of the Declaration of Condominium , but there should be a pretty good idea of the direction the developer would be going in . Mr . Lucas said it would be helpful if the Board could provide him with a memo outlining the information needed all at once , so that he would not be coming back and disappointing the Board . Attorney Barney offered that , before preliminary subdivision approval is granted , the Board has to have a pretty good detailed idea of the plans as to the operation of the Homeowners ' Association . Mr . Trowbridge , asking for clarification , wondered what exactly , other than having each unit dimensioned from some benchmark on the site , what additionally is needed on the plan ? Attorney Barney responded that , at a minimum , typical dimensions of a building . Mr . Trowbridge wondered if the architectural drawing dimensions had to be shown on the plan versus having them as an attachment to the report . Attorney Barney stated that the normal place for the precise dimensions is one of two places - some framework or some form that can be read , reviewed , and accepted by the County Clerk , adding that it can be attached to the plan , or as part of the Declaration of Condominium . Mr . Trowbridge mentioned that a preliminary road profile is being requested , not a location of road until final subdivision . Ms . Beeners stated that the notations on the plan do not adequately refer to the conceptual building diagrams . Ms . Beeners stated that she understood there was a proposed public road that was to be shown a little bit to the west of the roadway reservation , to show what the developer is proposing to be public road versus the private road . Ms . Beeners said that she did not think there was adequate dimensioning to connect layout , where the big building is in space , and additionally , the developer should show , instead of 30 detached duplex units , it might be more appropriate to say that equals 60 dwelling units . Ms . • Beeners noted that there has been some difficulty , as far as the architectural part of the project , in moving along into a lot of design development while the developer needs to have some preliminary Planning Board - 15 - April 4 , 1989 • approvals in hand , commenting , with some better cross - referencing of the diagrams and the types of ways the developer is showing , or locating , that the attached dwelling units in the big building would be laid out in floor plan , and also showing how a typical unit would be located within a building , would be sufficient for preliminary . William Lesser wondered if the phases were generally shown on the preliminary , and then when there is a request for the final , the final is by phase . Chairman Grigorov stated that there would be more detail for the first phase . Chairman Grigorov remarked that the detail of the plan would not change the Homeowners ' Agreement . Mr . May offered that the Homeowners ' Agreement really defines the project as a condominium . There appearing to be no further discussion , Chairman Grigorov asked if anyone were prepared to make a motion . MOTION by William Lesser , seconded by James Baker : RESOLVED , by the Town of Ithaca Planning Board , that the Public Hearing in the matter of Consideration of Preliminary Subdivision Approval of the proposed " Indian Creek Retirement Community " be and hereby is adjourned until May 2 , 1989 at 7 : 30 p . m . , pending the submission of a preliminary plat satisfactory to the Town Planner , Town Engineer , and Town Attorney , along with submission of the • Certificate of Incorporation , the Homeowners ' Association By - laws and Restrictive Covenants , or Declaration of Condominium , and , the submission of a proposed road name and approximate road dimensions for the Planning Department to review and make recommendation . There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote . Aye - Grigorov , Langhans , May , Baker , Ken erson , Lesser , Miller , Smith . Nay - None . The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously . Chairman Grigorov announced , for everyone ' s information , that the above MOTION constituted Notice to the public that the above Public Hearing is adjourned until May 2 , 1989 at 7 : 30 p . m . , and the Public Hearing will be re - noticed in the Ithaca Journal . Chairman Grigorov declared the " Indian Creek Retirement Community " matter duly adjourned at 9 : 30 p . m . PUBLIC HEARING : REVIEW OF PRELIMINARY PLAT APPLICATION SUBMISSIONS FOR THE PROPOSED " CAYUGA LAKE ESTATES " CLUSTERED SUBDIVISION , PROPOSED TO CONSIST OF 60 SINGLE - FAMILY LOTS AND PROPOSED TO BE LOCATED EAST OF ORCHARD HILL ROAD AND WEST OF N . Y . S . RT . 89 , ON TOWN OF ITHACA TAX PARCELS NO . 6 - 22 - 2 - 2 . 2 , - 2 . 9 , AND 6 - 21 - 1 - 5 , 65 . 9 ± ACRES TOTAL , RESIDENCE DISTRICT R- 30 . EDWARD J . MCARDLE AND LESLIE N . REIZES , • OWNERS ; DAVID A . MCARDLE , APPLICANT . Planning Board - 16 - April 4 , 1989 • Chairman Grigorov declared the Public Hearing in the above - noted matter duly opened at 9 : 31 p . m . and read aloud from the Notice of Public Hearings as posted and published and as noted above . Maps were appended to the bulletin board . Ann Clarke addressed the Board and stated that at the last Planning Board meeting the developer was directed to clarify a number of points on the conventional plat to support the application for the cluster provision . Ms . Clarke remarked that the items the developer was specifically asked to address related to two 60 - foot rights - of -way alignments , one opposite Happy Lane , and the other opposite the Fiser property , which actually is landlocked from DuBois Road . Ms . Clarke noted that the other item the developer was asked to address and clarify was a 10 % set - aside for recreational purposes , which is required in a subdivision plat , adding , that land is proposed to be located [ indicating on map ] " here " , along the NYSEG right - of -way , and " here " again , along the NYSEG right - of -way , totalling 10 . 5 % set- aside , noting that the requirement is 10 % . Ms . Clarke stated that the other thing the developer offered in support of the cluster proposal was a detailed sketch as to what the crossing of the stream to the north of the property would look like , and also a clarification or sketch of what the individual typical lot grading might look like . Ms . Clarke commented that , to answer questions or concerns regarding some of the little drainage swales that now meander across the property , the • developer has provided a detailed schematic of the stream crossing , adding that it would basically be a culvert with a concrete wall , and , in trying to make it less obtrusive , it is proposed to be embedded with rip - rap that would be a guide rail , and wood posts along the bridge or abutment . Ms . Clarke noted that , in terms of individual site drainage , " this " typical is one of the lots that now has a small drainage swale travelling through it , commenting that , what is proposed is , during the grading or site preparation for the unit , there would actually be grading around the house in such a manner that " this " swale would be intercepted and redirected down to the roadside ditches . Ms . Clarke said that the calculations on all of the drainage that have been supplied for the cluster plat are based on this type of an approach where " this " drainage swale is redirected to an existing swale or a proposed swale along the roadside . Ms . Clarke stated that the Board had before them a revised plat that indicates 55 lots ; the roads are laid out with two crossings , and , with the northern stream , there is a 10 . 5 % set- aside of recreational land to the Town ; the cul de sacs are roughly 750 feet long and meet the Town ' s basic requirement of a maximum of 1 , 000 lineal feet for a cul de sac , noting that 60 - foot rights - of -way have been provided for Happy Lane and the Fiser property . Ms . Clarke stated that , at 55 lots , the developer has a potential number of units of 110 , adding , the developer is proposing a 60 - lot cluster single - family deed restricted subdivision . Montgomery May asked about the size [ pointing to map ] of the culvert crossing the stream . Ms . Clarke answered that that has not • been sized yet , but the intention is that it would be designed backing up from the size of the culvert downstream at the old railroad crossing , ( the NYSEG right - of - way ) , adding , all of the water that Planning Board - 17 - April 4 , 1989 • would normally pass through that culvert could pass through it , and the culvert would be sized according to the Town Engineer ' s guidelines so that there would not be a restriction of water at that point . Mr . May responded that that is not the problem , the problem is the trash it picks up , noting , that whole thing would wash through pretty quick . . Ms . Clarke commented that , if there is an alternate design , they would be glad to discuss it with the Town Engineer , Chairman Grigorov noted that this was a Public Hearing and asked if there were anyone from the public who had any comments or questions . Rich Armstrong , of 14 Orchard Hill Road , wondered where the cluster exits . Ms . Clarke answered that there are two access points one is at Orchard Hill Road , and one is at Route 89 , on both plats , the conventional and the cluster , adding , the design of the roads in both instances is intended to not encourage through traffic from Route 89 to Orchard Hill Road and DuBois Road . Mr . Armstrong commented that Orchard Hill is a subdivision in which most of the lots are three to 4 - 1 / 2 acres , with a variety of restrictions , yet with the proposed plan Mr . Armstrong felt it disrupts the character of the neighborhood that is emerging . Mr . Armstrong stated that he is concerned about water and sewer , commenting , having built his own house last year with some help from a local contractor , he went through the problems of trying to secure all the permits , and get the water and sewer . Mr . • Armstrong stated that he has to question whether the Town is prepared for the size of the proposed development . Mr . Armstrong offered that he saw- children riding bikes on Orchard Hill Road , and wondered what kind of impact the development would have on families in the neighborhood , with children riding bicyles , things that attracted him to that neighborhood . Mr . Armstrong said that he has owned his property for two years , and built his home last year , commenting , had he known the size and magnitude of the proposed development , he probably would have thought otherwise about building his home . George Dengler , of 250 DuBois Road , spoke from the floor and expressed a concern about traffic in the area , and wondered if anyone had viewed the cluster housing on Woolf Lane . Mr . Dengler said that he has a road built next to his property line that carries as much traffic now as DuBois Road does . Mr . Dengler stated that he felt Woolf Lane looks like a small city . Krys Cail , of 337 DuBois Road , approached the Board and stated that one thing she had noticed with Orchard Hill Road being the main access is that there is an area that has very bad sighting along DuBois Road , which is sort of where Indian Creek Road comes into it , and there is a dip down before there is a dip back up . Ms . Cail stated that , as she understood it , the County would eventually be fixing the alignment with Route 96 , but noted that in the area right before there are actually some warning signs , it dips down , and it is very difficult to see . Ms . Cail commented that in the eight years she • has lived on DuBois Road there has been an increase in traffic since the Biggs Complex has been used for current uses , as a lot of people come out that back way , adding that she felt it was pretty hard to Planning Board - 18 - April 4 , 1989 sight along that line , and further adding that she wondered about the increased traffic in that particular area . Ms . Cail mentioned that the dip was just past Orchard Hill Road , but it will make traffic in that particular area real confusing . Ms . Cail stated that , if , in fact , Orchard Hill Road is going to be access for -the 60 dwellings , she wondered whether it would be required to upgrade that stretch of DuBois Road , either to add fill so that there is not a dip in sighting , or some other means , to be sure that would adequately handle it . Ms . Cail offered that , also , as far as the cross section of the crossing of what people in the neighborhood tend to refer to as gorges , they are way beyond what she would call a swale . Ms . Cail remarked that if one takes a look at the current railroad bed , it gives one a pretty good idea of the size of embankment that would have to be built to cross over some of them . Ms . Cail offered that , the farther up the ridge , the less the embankment . Ms . Cail stated that in some areas the drop- off is 20 - 25 feet . Ms . Cail .felt that the way the land goes up and down is really profound , particularly those areas along the steep banks , down toward Route 89 . Ms . Cail commented that , at some point , there should be some real clear engineering studies done to be sure things are going to hold out , especially after they have been deeded to the Town . Ms . Clarke responded that , first of all , the number of units proposed for the site is within the zoning , there is no request for an increase in density . Ms . Clarke noted that , in terms of Orchard Hill Road , the access proposed to Route 89 is proposed so that Orchard Hill Road is not used as the one and only access , adding , the design of that entrance to the State highway would have to be engineered , and approved by the DOT , commenting that the developer has had preliminary discussions with DOT , and they have indicated that they thought that could be accomplished . Ms . Clarke stated that she was not referring to " this " as a ravine , she was referring to little swales on the side . Rosalind Grippi , of 423 E . Seneca Street , appeared before the Board and stated that she was also concerned about the traffic on Orchard Hill Road , noting that she plans to build a house there . Ms . Grippi remarked that the last time the developer was asked about finding access on Happy Lane he objected because of the traffic inflow into the development from Happy Lane , commenting that the same circumstance now applies to Orchard Hill Road . Ms . Grippi wondered what consideration the Planning Board is giving to the problems that this is going to raise on Orchard Hill Road for the houses presently located there . Also , Ms . Grippi wondered if any aspect of the project would be voted on tonight , with Chairman Grigorov responding - we will have to wait and see . Bruce Rich , of 253 DuBois Road , addressed the Board and stated that the area in question is very fragile , as far as the amount of topsoil , noting , heavy equipment on there would wash a lot of the soil down to the Lake , and there would be a barren rock slide . Mr . Rich wondered about fire apparatus along that area . Ms . Clarke responded that the roads are as laid out and proposed to be designed to meet • Town standards for roads to be dedicated to the Town , noting that emergency equipment could pass on those roads . Ms . Clarke stated that some additional work has been done on the soils , and submitted , for Planning Board - 19 - April 4 , 1989 • the file , a copy of a Request for Proposal that was sent out last week to three firms in the area to do test borings and soil investigation on the site to help the developer determine what type of special considerations are needed in the final design . [ Copy attached hereto as Exhibit 4 . ] Ms . Clarke stated their concern was that they were really looking for some sort of preliminary approval from the Board so that they can pinpoint where those borings would be , for the proper alignment and proper location for the road design , typical units , and the utilities . Celia Bowers , of 1406 Trumansburg Road , addressed the Board and stated that she was very , very concerned about people bringing in heavy equipment dislodging stones , in that there could be severe run - off onto Route 89 , adding that she thought this would be a real traffic hazard . Ms . Bowers also wondered what was going to happen to the little concrete containments that have been called ravines and swales , if there happens to be an enormously heavy rain . Ms . Bowers said that , if these are relatively small there would be chance that these would be knocked away , as houses were , on that very site , in the 1930s . Ms . Bowers stated that she felt there was a real safety hazard with this site in building the proposed number of houses . Joseph Burns , of 1089 Taughnnock Blvd . , approached the Board and stated that his land abuts the site in question on the northeast corner , adding that he has been a resident in that area for more than • twenty years . Mr . Burns , indicating on the map , pointed out his property . Mr . Burns remarked that he has accepted development on the west side of the Lake as inevitable , and understood that the sites are legal within the adopted Zoning Regulations . Mr . Burns stated that he has three concerns , and basically they are all a matter of how to lessen the impact , at the present time , on the residents of the Town of Ithaca . Mr . Burns noted that the three items are : traffic , Town finances , and environmental impact . Mr . Burns noted that he lives on Taughannock Blvd , and has two young children , adding that he thinks the road is extraordinarily dangerous ; traffic moves rapidly ; the road is narrow , and he does not think 60 - 100 cars taking left - hand turns are needed , because the contours are very , very steep , and one is just not going to glide up there at 50 mph ; people will have to stop ; cars will be passing , and he noted that his poor children would be out on the highway , adding that he does not like that at all . Mr . Burns stated that he thought the issue was whether or not Orchard Hill Road and Indian Creek Road are currently set up in a situation in order to handle the heavy traffic load that is anticipated . Mr . Burns stated that , as to Town finances , and as he sees it , it is essential that , if this development is to be built , the developer should contribute , in fact , pay fully , for water and sewer , noting that he thought it is not up to the current townspeople to pay for such things . Mr . Burns said that the last issue was the environmental impact . Mr . Burns , referring to the steep slopes , stated that that issue is especially critical between the railroad bed and Route 89 , Mr . Burns offered that anyone who has done a little bit of engineering knows that • run - off increases as a very steep function of velocity , and if one denudes that land in order to put in the home sites , then there would be an erosion problem , commenting that the topsoil would run off into Planning Board - 20 - April 4 , 1989 • the southern end of the Lake , and the Lake , at that point , is relatively shallow , the flow at that end of the Lake is not very substantial . Mr . Burns stated that he can foresee lots of silting , and lots of fertilizer in that end of the Lake , adding , at the present time the amount of plant growth in the southern end of the Lake is very substantial , and there is a question of whether or not one has Lake frontage or a swamp in front of you . Mr . Burns stated that he could not see how having 100 extra residents up on the hillside fertilizing their lawns is going to help all the rest of the Town residents that live along the Lake . Mr . Burns stated that he grants that the spot is precious ; the land is beautiful , and noted that he could understand why people would want to live there , but does not see any reason to destroy it just so people can live on a nice site . Mr . Burns stated that he felt it was essential that the Town preserve most , if not all , of the strip of land along the side of the Lake between the NYSEG right - of -way and Route 89 . At this point , Chairman Grigorov stated , for the record , that six members of the Planning Board did spend several hours on Sunday afternoon , April 2 , 1989 , with Mr . Frantz and Ms . Beeners , walking the land in question . Ms . Clarke stated that she did agree with Mr . Burns in that the site is a very precious site , and does have some unique characteristics that need to be preserved , noting that was why the • developer was before the Board for a cluster proposal . Ms . Clarke stated that the developer is proposing to cluster most of the units on the southwestern portion of the site , which has been evaluated to contain very little , or no , forest or vegetation of any merit , adding , an analysis of the vegetation has been done on the site . Ms . Clarke noted that , where the cluster comes in they would like to retain the majority of the natural vegetation , protect the soil , and protect the area from erosion . Ms . Clarke commented that the road layout has been done to minimize disturbance of those vegetated areas , and the lot lines have also been laid out to minimize the impact . Ms . Clarke said that the plat , as it is shown through " this " area , has a restricted set - aside that is 70 feet wide " here " , and goes down to 40 feet wide " here " , commenting that no clearing , whatsoever , can take place . Ms . Clarke noted that all of " these " lots , # 7 - # 45 , essentially starting " here " , and going all the way through the site , adding , lots # 42 - # 46 , have been deed restricted , or are proposed to be deed restricted , with no more than 50 % of the site being allowed to be cleared . Ms . Clarke offered that the intent is very much to preserve the existing natural character of that site , to protect the soil that is there , and to protect the vegetation . Ms . Clarke noted that it is anticipated , in the final drawings , that a very detailed erosion and sedimentation control plan would be done , and the developer recognizes that the Lake is a sensitive water body with a classification that needs to be protected . Ms . Clarke stated that the developer has already checked with the DEC , noting that Indian Creek and " this " stream in the ravine to the north are not protected streams , there are no permits required • by the DEC , and the developer does not need to have a water quality certification , but they do want to have an erosion and sedimentation control plan in place , because they will be violating standards if Planning Board - 21 - April 4 , 1989 • additional sediment creates turbidity in the Lake , and it is traced to the proposed project . Mr . Burns wondered if the developer was liable to suit , with Ms . Clarke responding , the developer is liable to penalties from the DEC if it is proven that the project violates the water quality standards of the Lake . Mr . Burns wondered about the people who live along the creek . Ms . Clarke stated that their intent is to protect that stream and make sure there is not erosion and sedimentation leaving the site , through whatever engineering methods need to be established , adding that that plan would be reviewed by the Town Engineer , and would be in the final drawings before the Board . Ms . Clarke stated , in terms of the traffic , the estimates of maximum hour vehicles from the site would be 60 vehicles , and , given the fact that there is a Route 89 exit and an Orchard Hill Road alignment to DuBois Road , the developer is estimating about a 50 / 50 split , so the maximum total number of vehicles on Orchard Hill Road would be 30 , and the maximum number of vehicles going out on Taughannock Blvd , would be 30 . Pointing to the map , Ms . Clarke stated that " this " intersection with Taughannock Blvd . is going to have to be designed and reviewed by the DOT , remarking that it is entirely possible that , in that design and within that vicinity of the intersection , improvements will have to be made to State Route 89 to allow traffic to enter and exit the project safely . Ms . Clarke said that the above is within the DOT ' s realm ; the developer has their specifications , and they will be able to design to meet the DOT ' s safety requirements . Krys Cail , of 337 DuBois Road , wondered how the erosion control • program would operate , if , in fact , all of the staff people for the project are in Florida or Chicago . Ms . Clarke responded that the erosion control plan she was referring to , which the developer explained to everyone at the last meeting , was that his proposal was to go in and put in all the improvements , such as the water and sewer , at his expense , and construct the roads . Ms . Clarke stated that individual requirements for a building lot requires that each site , and building plan , have to be approved by the developer as in the Homeowners ' Association agreement in the deed restrictions , adding , the homes have to be designed by a licensed architect , and in each one of those instances , if the Board so wishes , the developer can have typical erosion and sedimentation control schemes that would have to be followed on independent lots , noting that that is a fairly common practice by developers . Ms . Clarke stated that during the construction period of the roads and the utilities , the developer will have a representative on site , making sure that it is being built in the proper manner , and to specifications . Ms . Clarke stated that there would still be oversight when people are doing excavations for individual lots , through the Homeowners ' Association and the Agreement . Ms . Clarke offered that that would be done by a licensed plan , and if those plans are not followed , then there is recourse . Ms . Clarke stated that she thought the Town was also involved in this , in that if there is a condition on the plan to provide those , then the Town also has the enforcement capability . • Edward Austen , of 255 DuBois Road , spoke from the floor and stated that his property borders the property in question . Mr . Austen pointed out to the Board that the streams coming down through there , Planning Board - 22 - April 4 , 1989 • and since the Woolf Lane development has been put in ,, the amount of water coming through the creek , to the north , has almost doubled , adding , it is raising a problem with him , as there is a lot of silt coming down , and it will end up down " here " . Mr . Austen offered that nothing has been done on the Woolf Lane development about curtailing the amount of flow coming off there . Mr . Austen stated that there is a problem in two places : the stream , and a,lso . . the road ditch presently under the road . Mr . Austen felt that another water source was being developed , remarking that he would like to make real sure this was taken care of , as well as " this " property down " here " , because there is going to be a big problem on Taughannock Blvd . Ms . Clarke responded that the drainage calculations and design for the project , although preliminary , a final would be submitted . Ms . Clarke said that the developer , by design , is going to retain the amount of run - off from the site to the current rate of run - off in its undeveloped state . Mr . Austen stated that he did not know how one can contain what someone else is dumping . Ms . Clarke answered that they would contain the run - off from the proposed site , and that will also be reviewed by the Town Engineer , commenting that , if there is a flow that is significant coming through that , then it will have to be calculated in the design of the culvert , as Board Member Montgomery May pointed out . Mr . Austen pointed out that this has been a real dry winter , and the only run - off now has been a little light rain , but a lot of water is flowing . • George Dengler , of 250 DuBois Road , again approached the Board and stated that the run - off Mr . Austen was talking about comes right down the side of his land . Mr . Dengler stated that he could attest that the run - off is absolutely mud . Mr . Dengler offered that Mr . Ciaschi ' s answer was to stake a few bales of hay , which , during a heavy thunderstorm last summer , proceeded to build up , and with a sudden rush of water plugged up all the lines under the road , adding that the lines under the road are half full of mud now . Mr . Dengler remarked that he is suffering from erosion , and is thinking about sueing somebody for taking three feet of his land . Bruce Rich , of 253 DuBois Road , again appeared before the Board and stated that he lives right next door to Mr . Austen , having purchased the house in 1973 , commenting that this is the first year that he has been getting water in his cellar . Mr . Rich remarked that he has discussed the matter with Assistant Town Engineer , Erik Whitney , and he indicated that a Town backhoe would be sent up to dig in front of the house , and find out what can be done about stopping the drainage to the house . Celia Bowers , of 1406 Trumansburg Road , again addressed the Board and stated that she had just received a call from a West Hill resident complaining about a water problem . Ms . Bowers remarked that the caller was wondering what kind of legal procedures can be taken . Krys Cail , of 337 DuBois Road , again spoke from the floor and • stated that she lives on the downhill side of DuBois Road , and just to give one a sense of how much engineering on paper can sometimes work , and sometimes not , the County actually changed a drainage ditch under Planning Board - 23 - April 4 , 1989 • DuBois Road near her house , commenting , they essentially took it from the area to the north of her house and put it in the area to the south , and actually flooded her home . Ms . Cail offered that the County returned and restructured her entire driveway . Ms . Cail said that bedrock is very close to the surface . Joseph Burns , of 1089 Taughannock Blvd . , again spoke from the floor and commented that he agreed there is a severe drainage problem between the railroad bed and Route 89 , because the slopes are so steep . Mr . Burns wondered if it were true that the lot size is twice the required lot size , so that sometime in the future all the lots could be split . Chairman Grigorov answered , no , it is not true . Ms . Clarke , referring to the trees , stated that it is a deed restriction that would go with the land , unless all of the holders of that deed restriction decide to release it , noting that they have offered to the Town that they also be named in that restriction , so they could enforce it if they so chose . Ms . Clarke stated that there is a discussion right now , on the Board ' s part , about what clearing means , which will be defined . Ms . Clarke noted that there is also a discussion on the caliper of the tree that is meant not to be taken down , which is somewhere between three , four , or six inches , adding , that was not finalized at the last meeting . Ms . Clarke offered that that would be included in the legal description of the clearing . • At this point , Chairman Grigorov stated that the Public Hearing would be closed at this time , but would be reopened , if necessary , for other comment before there is any kind of a vote . Chairman Grigorov closed the Public Hearing at 10 : 10 p . m . and brought the matter back to the Board for discussion . Mr . May stated that the comment has been made that the proposed plan meets the present zoning requirements . Mr . May stated that , to the best of his knowledge , the cluster subdivision ordinance requires that a conventional site plan be developed to determine the number of lots . Mr . May remarked that he understood this was what was done , however , the crossing of the ravine with the lots , etc . , has not been considered acceptable , as far as a determination of lots , commenting that he found the whole project to have an excessive number of lots . Ms . Clarke responded that the crossing of the ravine was a point that the developer tried to consider in the cluster , in reducing the number of crossings on the ravine , adding , that crossing can be done in a sensitive manner , and can be engineered to be safe . Ms . Clarke wondered , on what basis , in the regulations , the Town is saying that it cannot be crossed . Mr . May responded that it does not make sense economically , or environmentally , which he felt would be the principle reason , and noted that , while he could certainly agree that , given enough dollars , it can be crossed , he does question whether it can be crossed environmentally sensitively , regardless of the dollars . Attorney Barney remarked that the conventional plan is supposed to show buildable lots , commenting that six or seven of the lots with the is ravine running through the middle are not really buildable topographically . Ms . Clarke replied that there are buildable portions on all of those lots , where one could get more than adequate building Planning Board - 24 - April 4 , 1989 • area within the required set - backs in the zoning , without interfering with the ravine . Attorney Barney stated that he was not so sure he agreed with that . Mr . May noted that , in all fairness , and he was only speaking for himself , under no circumstances would he vote for the crossing of that ravine the way it is shown . Ms . Clarke wondered if there were a crossing that was acceptable , with Mr . May replying that he thought it was entirely possible , but from looking at the current plan he did not see one in the cluster proposal . Ms . Clarke asked if the Town Engineer had reviewed the plans and determined that this is not possible by engineering standards . Town Planner , Susan Beeners , stated that she thought what was being dealt with here is a situation involving things with enough money pumped into them by the developer to build , and then requiring enough money by the Town to maintain in the long run , and , perhaps , even replace , and especially involving the amount of construction that would be necessary for one of those ravine crossings . Ms . Beeners said that there is certainly the ability to engineer anything , but she thought that the real feeling , with those expenses of site development , was , is the intent of cluster really being met , that being to economize on infrastructure , as well as a number of other points , which are roughly stated in the Town policy of the Subdivision . Regulations , and then back in the cluster development section . Ms . Beeners wondered , if that were a summarizing at all of what she gathered was the feeling of the Board , and with there being a great • amount of site expense to develop this , is it really meeting the intent ? Ms . Clarke wondered if it were being suggested that a conventional plat would be a better way to go . Chairman Grigorov responded , - no , the Board is thinking of a different way of clustering , which would use the land better . Ms . Clarke offered that the developer ' s intent in laying out the roads was to reduce the cost and disturbance on the site from any conventional layout that could be developed , adding , a conventional layout can be designed , and can meet Town standards , commenting that it is not the developer ' s intent to do that , they do agree that portions of the site should be preserved , and they would prefer to approach it from a cluster aspect . Ms . Clarke said that the developer has tried to accommodate that with the scheme before the Board . Mr . May stated that there is no question that the project can be clustered in a nice way on the site , however , in his opinion , there are far too many units , and the number has been exceeded from that under the conventional plan . Continuing , Mr . May noted that , since non - buildable lots are shown , the cluster subdivision regulation specifically mandates that the developer not exceed the number of units in a conventional subdivision . Ms . Clarke remarked that they are not exceeding 110 units , which , potentially , could be built on the site , the proposal is for 60 units , noting that , even if the six lots north of the ravine were to be dropped on a conventional plat , they would be well within the permitted density on the site . Assistant Town Planner George Frantz noted that there are other problems with • the conventional plat ; one major problem the Board is concerned with is the fact that all the plans for the development are treating , in reality , streams , either year - round or intermittent streams , as Planning Board - 25 - April 4 , 1989 • drainage swales . Ms . Clarke replied that they are not designated as streams , as she had checked with the State . Virginia Langhans wondered if Ms . Clarke had been on the property , with Ms . Clarke answering , no . Mr . Frantz offered that reality says they are streams . Mr . May suggested that Ms . Clarke walk the site , with Ms . Clarke responding that she intends to . Mr . Frantz stated that the streams form definite ravines , and very deep ravines at the lower end of the site . Mr . Frantz noted that last week , before the rain began , the streams were flowing , and of course , they were flowing even more since the past rains , adding , on the conventional plat , lot # 8 has a stream flowing through the area where a house would go , and adding , the same goes for lots # 12 , # 39 , # 42 , # 48 and # 53 . Mr . Frantz said that that was a problem with a conventional plat , in that the above - noted lots cannot be considered buildable lots , because of the stream flowing through where the house would be placed . Ms . Clarke responded that the stream would not be flowing through , given the proposed drainage pattern and the drainage plan for either the conventional or the cluster provision . Mr . May stated that there was no way that a stream could be diverted in some of the lots . Virginia Langhans said that some of the streams were 4 - 5 feet deep , and 10 feet across . Mr . May said that they were talking about 30 feet deep and 50 feet across the top . Ms . Langhans mentioned that , where Bear Paw Lane meets Falling Water Drive on the cluster plan , there are two small gorges that must be 25 feet deep , and they sort of come together to form one , commenting , that is exactly where the intersection is , and it looks • like a big island . Chairman Grigorov stated , walking where the roads have been planned , they got the feeling that they were not planned actually looking at the land . Mr . May asked if the person who laid out the plan had actually walked the land , with Ms . Clarke responding , yes , every bit of it . Chairman Grigorov stated that she could not imagine anyone putting the roads where they are proposed . Robert Miller stated that , in his opinion , there were too many units being planned for the property . Stephen Smith offered that , given the surrounding neighborhood , the land is much more conducive to an estate layout of very large lots . Ms . Clarke responded that estate layouts would have very high development costs , and maintenance of the roads , for the density , which is something the developer understood . Mr . May stated that the project , as laid out , has got extremely high road and utilities costs . Ms . Clarke said that is the reason for a request for the geotechnical studies , to find out specifically what the requirements would be . Ms . Langhans remarked that she would be interested in seeing the test borings , because some of the water was right on bedrock . Ms . Clarke stated that they were not really in a position to do the borings until they have some sort of a concurrence as to what the road layout would be . Chairman Grigorov said that the Board cannot assure the developer where the roads can be until there is more information . Ms . Clarke said that would be recognized on the final plat that there may need to be some revisions based on that examination . Chairman Grigorov offered that there are other possibilities for the land , which was discussed on Sunday , while the • six members were walking the land , as to modifying the plan in a way that would be beneficial , environmentally especially , and also for the Planning Board - 26 - April 4 , 1989 • developer , at much less cost in road building , by a combination of large lots and small lots , for instance . Susan Beeners wondered if it would be appropriate to run through , very quickly , what the concerns are . Mr . Frantz [ indicating on map ] stated that " these " are the streams identified on the lot , which appear to be year - round or intermittent streams in noticeable ravines , of which some are relatively shallow toward " here " [ pointing to the uphill or western portion of the tract ] , but they are long - standing stream courses . Indicating on the map , Mr . Frantz pointed out the red dash , which indicates the building set - backs of lots # 8 , # 12 , # 39 , # 42 , # 48 , and # 53 especially , where there are some questions , noting that as far as lots # 3 , # 14 , # 20 , and # 35 go , they are probably okay , adding that lot # 41 is a question simply because he was not sure whether it was an active stream or not . Mr . Frantz stated that , in addition , lots # 27 , and # 28 do not meet the minimum lot dimensions for R - 15 . Mr . Frantz stated that on the cluster plat the streams are of major concern , and the proposal for dealing with the drainage , upon review , appears , basically , to be treating " these " as swales , and diverting the water out of them , and " this " one and " this " one would go down to " this " culvert , to " this " stream , then down . Mr . Frantz said , of course , that basically diverts much of the drainage from " this " area into " this " culvert , and then underneath Taughannock Blvd . Ms . Clarke stated that she believed it was being intercepted again , and then brought down to Indian Creek , with Mr . Frantz agreeing that • there is some coming down " here " , in fact , on lot # 35 it is shown as the detail . Mr . Frantz stated that staff has a lot of concern about the magnitude of the proposed diverson , and whether or not it is really an appropriate action . Mr . Frantz noted that in the cluster plan , lots # 3 , # 6 , # 50 , # 32 , # 35 , # 41 , and # 46 have buildability problems . Mr . Frantz stated that , if anything , the Board needs more detail as far as " this " intersection goes [ Bear Paw Lane and Falling Water Drive ] , adding , on " this " map it looks to be approximately 15 - 20 feet deep , yet there is no provision for getting " this " stream underneath to Falling Water Drive , Mr . Frantz stated that he realizes this is a preliminary sketch plan , adding that the Assistant Town Engineer , Erik Whitney , has looked at it , and he [ Mr . Frantz ] has also spoken to Steve Blust , Engineer for the project . Mr . Frantz commented that , again , Mr . Whitney ' s position is that it is , from an engineering standpoint , feasible to do . Ms . Clarke wondered , under what kind of specs . Mr . Frantz responded that , in Mr . Whitney ' s discussion with him , he felt that if there were going to be a culvert there , then it has to be an extremely sturdy culvert built to , probably , State DOT specifications , with a 100 - year , or so , lifespan . Mr . May offered that it would probably be 20 feet in diameter . Ms . Clarke offered that there is a large culvert at the other end . Mr . Frantz commented that there are concerns about the protection of the woodland , and , basically , the site is proposed to be divided roughly in two , from a rough line in " this " area , north , for approximately 1 / 3 of the parcel , which is the area of woodland that is 40 years old or older , commenting , " this " area is 100 years old or older , also in " here " , and • some along Indian Creek , adding that " this " large area up " here " is a 60 - 70 year undisturbed forest . Mr . Frantz offered that , in order to better preserve that woodland , more of the development should be Planning Board - 27 - April 4 , 1989 • pulled out of that area , and down into " this " area [ pointing to the southern 2 / 3 of the tract ] . Mr . Frantz mentioned the 50 % restriction on clear cut , noting that , even with the 50 % restriction , he did not believe that that is adequate . Ms . Clarke interjected that there are roughly 17 acres that would be protected under that . Mr . Frantz mentioned that under the 50 % provision there are about 10 acres that could be cleared , but again , he thinks that is excessive and would have a greater than what he really believes necessary impact on the woodland area . Mr . Frantz offered that one idea discussed was , instead of the 500 limit , a specific square footage limitation in the area of about 12 , 500 square feet , which is roughly a 125 - foot diameter circle , which would allow , of course , room for a house , 20 - 30 feet of yard around it , and a driveway access , but again , preserve much of the wooded area . Ms . Clarke noted that the developer did consider having a square footage that would be allowed to be cleared , adding , the problem with that is that maybe someone does not want to have a cleared area by their house ; maybe they want their house set in the woods , but want a cleared area for a pool , or something of that nature , commenting , if one gets as specific as to say - - you get this much square footage , and , in terms of a percentage cover , she thought that something could be worked out in a discussion on how the protection is increased , noting that she just wanted to express to the Board the developer ' s concerns in putting a square footage number on it , in that she felt there should be a little more flexibility than that . Mr . Frantz responded that he thought , in that case , it would • work , because the homeowner would have a choice , in that a house with a footprint of 2000 square feet would give 10 , 000 square feet , which would give them a 10 , 000 - foot backyard , or put the house in the middle . Ms . Beeners stated that the above covers the main gist of what has been reviewed , adding , " Outlot B " is not considered to be open space , but a larger deterrent , as far as developability , seems to center around [ indicating on map ] " this " ravine , and whether , in the hypothetical plat , the Town would accept two heavy duty culverts " there " and " there " . Ms . Beeners , pointing to the map , stated that " these " are the ones she considered to be the most serious ones , and would the Town , in a conventional situation , even consider accepting those , and could they be built economically ? Ms . Beeners commented that Mr . Whitney indicated to her that to replace those kinds of things one has to close the road off , and replace the entire structures , commenting that that brings in some additional questionability about accepting these as conventional lots . Ms . Beeners offered that there are some trade - offs with that , in that in the cluster plat , if a crossing " here " were eliminated , there would be absolutely no vehicular access to the park ; there would only be seasonal access by pedestrians , perhaps by a rustic bridge . Ms . Beeners noted , in thinking about that , either it be a primitive park with no vehicular access into it , with careful restrictions and signage , or accept having vehicular access on one crossing , and , perhaps , a reduction in the number of lots . Ms . Beeners wondered why , • what is to be developed within the mature woodland , must be on much larger lots than what is shown , and get into using a much smaller thing that would really represent cluster where it does appear to be Planning Board - 28 - April 4 , 1989 • feasible to develop . Ms . Beeners said that the developer indicated there was a market for $ 55 , 000 . 00 lots in Ithaca , and that was the reason for the proposal . Ms . Beeners offered that there has not really been a great weighing of whether or not that was really meeting the intent of cluster as it is spelled out in the Subdivision Regulations . Ms . Beeners wondered if there could be two - unit buildings - - an accessory apartment with the main unit - - a duplex type of arrangement , or a different housing type that could be used in the areas that are more suitable for development . Ms . Beeners offered that Ms . Clarke had mentioned some things like the DOT road approval , and possible need for improvements on Route 89 , noting , the way the SEQR process is structured more information is needed , before a preliminary plat consideration can even be made . Ms . Clarke responded that they cannot produce that unless they know what the alignment of the road is , commenting , DOT requires very detailed specifications as to the design , before they will even review . Ms . Beeners wondered if the project engineer could propose what could be done there . Ms . Clarke replied that they have given the DOT " this " , which they have indicated could be built , and they sent back the legal size application form with a request for $ 325 . 00 and a set of detailed plans . Ms . Clarke stated that she did not know how much flexibility they have with DOT , at this point , without an alignment , as it is difficult to prepare or provide a design , but perhaps she could get something more specific to say it can be done within their guidelines , or within their specifications . Ms . Clarke wondered if that was what • the Board is looking for ; that they could issue a permit on it based on their requirements . Ms . Beeners said that she knew it was difficult because of the permit business , but felt that some idea is needed as to what the ultimate design would be , and what DOT would require . Ms . Beeners suggested that , perhaps , more work could be done by Mr . Blust and maybe Fred Grout , of the DOT office in Ithaca , could give some additional input , noting , however , that it would probably be at the Town Engineer and the Planning Board level to approve that . Mr . Frantz , noting another issue which has not been raised was the access to the park site as proposed . Mr . Frantz stated that they have been on the site , and felt that this end of Falling Water Drive was not a feasible access point , given the 30 - 40 foot depth of the ravine , and the approximately 100 - foot width of the top . Mr . Frantz stated that , originally , they thought the access point from Orchard Hill Road would be attractive , however , the plus / minus 60 - foot right of way is all within the ravine , with no way to put a trail there . Ms . Clarke replied that she was sure there is a design of that crossing by which the developer could provide access for some maintenance vehicles , not cars , to get into the park , but at least to allow access across the ravine , and to allow Town maintenance vehicles to be in there , adding , there is a 30 - foot reserve strip on lot # 13 , and noting that she was sure a design could be worked out for those lots that would allow reasonable vehicular access to the park , adding that the developer would be glad to work with the Board on that design , as they understand the Board ' s point . Mr . Frantz noted that • one option that was looked at , and again this is tied into a replatting that would remove some of the density from " this " area [ pointing to the area of lots # 8 - # 13 ] , and relocate it " here " , would Planning Board - 29 - April 4 , 1989 be to actually move the cul de sac down , and reduce its length by approximately 100 feet or so , put a lot at the end of it , and then a triangular piece " here " [ pointing to lot # 111 , on the corner , which would also allow a gravel - type park access road to go at a diagonal to the terrain and maintain somewhat of a 10 % grade , and then have lot # 13 be extended all the way to # 14 . Ms . Clarke responded that the only concern she would express from - the developer ' s aspect is that which would be from a future homeowner ' s perspective , in that it would be better to have that type of access on the outside of a lot or on the perimeter of a lot , rather than running down between the middle of two potential building lots , commenting , that may get into a situation where people may not want the Town trucks running down there . Ms . Clarke felt that , one way or another , those could be rearranged , but it should be borne in mind that what has been discussed is the expense of that culvert , and in order to run something across that ravine and build it to the specifications that everyone is going to want to build it to , they then would need to have a basic number of units on the other side of the ravine , and that is the trade - off that Ms . Beeners mentioned about providing access to the park . Ms . Clarke stated that the developer also anticipated that access to the park would be gained by the proposed pathway along the NYSEG right - of -way , adding , that is long - term , but at some point that would also be an access to the park , because none of them are assuming this is going to be a park with pavilions and ballfields . Ms . Clarke stated that they recognize access needs to be provided , noting that she thought the other cul de • sac could be shortened so as not to provide an access . Virginia Langhans stated that she would like to save the developer the money and not have him put any lots across the gorge . Chairman Grigorov mentioned the pump station , and the bridge , noting , it would all be wild , then the density could be increased up in the fields . Ms . Beeners stated that the park site could then be kept as a natural area , commenting that the NYSEG right -of -way would make a good way to get in , and it would have to be a driveway access , or a pick - up truck access . Ms . Beeners remarked that , as a reserve , it could be held without public facilities developed until those become more apparent , but there would be a need to make it a functioning park , with some parking spaces and vehicular access . Stephen Smith wondered what sort of problems there would be if that were a park , and there was no emergency access , with Ms . Langhans responding , that is why it is a nature reserve , rather than a park . Ms . Clarke asked if the comments made tonight were in written form , so that she could secure a copy . Robert Miller stated that he did not think this plan would be acceptable to the Planning Board . Ms . Beeners offered that these were comments which were prepared and mailed out prior to the field trip by some of the Planning Board members , along with her and Mr . Frantz . Ms . Langhans , along with Mr . May , offered that Ms . Clarke could get the comments from the minutes of the meeting . [ Comments attached hereto as Exhibits 5 and 6 . ] Ms . Langhans stated that she would like lots # 58 , # 59 , and # 60 also addressed , those being the lots from Route 89 up to the NYSEG right - of -way , noting that she would prefer to have • no development there at all , as the access to them is crazy - one has to come up this steep slope , which cuts diagonally through lot # 58 , then there is a little tiny driveway in the back that services them . Planning Board - 30 - April 4 , 1989 • Robert Miller mentioned that that is way below the railroad track . Ms . Clarke stated that the driveway was designed in a 20 - foot width which meets the requirements for now , for the Town . Ms . Langhans stated that she considered them sub - standard lots . Mr . May stated that it depended on the slope of the land whether or not one could get an emergency vehicle around there , noting it would certainly have to be looked at by the Fire Department , Ms . Beeners stated that , currently , that is a separate parcel which has been appended to the larger parcel , and it is R- 15 as opposed to R- 30 . Stephen Smith mentioned the size of lots # 59 and # 60 , in that they were not the size in the original plat , with Ms . Beeners responding , right now it is a large non - conforming lot , and , with a road developed [ indicating ori map ] " here " , it would have the frontage that would make it conform as one lot , but the property parcel is about 144 feet deep by 300 - 400 feet long , so it is about 6 feet short of the 150 - foot R- 15 depth requirement . Ms . Beeners stated that , if a building permit is requested to build a house on that lot , then it might be subject to the ZBA . Attorney Barney stated that if it was a legal non - conforming lot they would be entitled to a building permit on one lot . Ms . Clarke offered that the lot fronts on Route 89 , but they were not proposing access on Route 89 . At this point , Chairman Grigorov asked if everyone on the Board had commented on the matter as much as they wanted to . • Mr . Frantz stated that , from a staff standpoint , he would like to see the density reduced , somewhat , from the green area indicated on the upper portion of the appended drawing , adding that the lots , even though this is being referred to as a cluster development , are still quite large , adding that he measured them and lot # 27 is in the range of 27 , 500 square feet or so ; lot # 18 is in the range of 47 , 000 square feet , lots # 35 , # 36 , # 37 and # 38 , which are some of the smaller lots , are in the range of 24 , 000 - 25 , 000 square feet , and lot # 48 is about 23 , 000 - 24 , 000 square feet . Mr . Frantz stated that he thought there was room for some slightly more condensation of lots in order to get more lots in the area where there is not mature woodland . Ms . Beeners offered that that would still be subject to a lot of drainage management . Chairman Grigorov remarked that there would certainly be less interference with the stream . Mr . Frantz mentioned pulling back the Orchard Hill Road cul de sac , reducing its length to put a lot at the end of it , which he noted was a way of gaining access to the park . Mr . Frantz , [ indicating on map ] said , since " this " [ pointing to the proposed ± 60 - foot -wide access strip ] really is not a feasible access point , it might be worthwhile to look at , also , pulling " this " [ Orchard Hill Road ] cul de sac back . Ms . Beeners wondered if the consensus of the Board was that there should not be a ravine crossing extending Orchard Hill Road . Virginia Langhans stated that she would vote for that . Chairman Grigorov stated that she would certainly prefer that . Ms . Beeners also wondered about the fact that the park land be kept as a preserve with • any access to it to be developed at a later time , with Ms . Langhans offering that , at the moment , the NYSEG right- of -way would be used as an access . Attorney Barney stated that , from a Town Attorney Planning Board - 31 - April 4 , 1989 • standpoint , he does not want to take a landlocked piece of land for the Town , and he felt some provision has to be made for access from somebody that has the power to give the access , the Town does not want to go out and exercise its eminent domain rights to get on the piece of property . Ms . Langhans offered that it could be deeded to the new land trust , with Attorney Barney responding , that is pie in the sky ; it does not meet the 10 % set -aside for the Town , if that is where the concern lies, but it could be done . Mr . May stated that it would have access through the NYSEG right - of -way . Attorney Barney wondered who owns the NYSEG right - of -way , with Ms . Langhans answering , probably NYSEG . Ms . Clarke stated that NYSEG would grant them an easement to cross the right - of -way , noting that that cannot be secured until an alignment for the road is intact . Attorney Barney commented that , to be realistic , if that is where the set - aside is going to be , some provision should be made for at least minimally deeding access to the . Town , adding that , if it is the Planning Board ' s determination to not have a crossing of some sort across the gorge , that is okay , but there should be at least the potential for the Town , at some time in the future , should they be so inclined , to get to that property . Ms . Langhans mentioned a pedestrian crossing . Mr . Lesser mentioned a 20 - foot right - of -way leading to the gorge . Attorney Barney said that it could be shown as noted at the present time , but with the understanding that the Town may or may not elect to build some sort of device to get over there . Attorney Barney noted that he was concerned from a legal standpoint , and , at some point , he wants to be able to • say , if necessary , that the Town can go there . Mr . May noted that it depends on the road alignment in the new design . Ms . Beeners mentioned that that could be a minimum 25 - foot strip , back between several pie - shaped lots around a cul de sac . Mr . May stated that from his standpoint , he does not want to see the crossing at the " Y " , noting that , somehow or another that road alignment has to also be changed . Chairman Grigorov stated that there should not need to be that much road in a cluster . Mr . Frantz stated that the difference in the cluster is about 15 % less road ; the conventional measures approximately 6 , 600 lineal feet of roadway , and the cluster measures approximately 5 , 700 lineal feet . Mr . Frantz commented , if the Planning Board desires to not have that Orchard Hill Road crossing with the culvert , then it would be better to have a cul de sac there , and a 20 - foot right - of -way into that area , north , instead of having one at the end of Falling Water Drive . Ms . Beeners stated that that probably would work , as this is a sticky place , as far as trying to plat it out , because she had viewed the area . Ms . Beeners wondered if the message from the Board was that this type of crossing , where two streams are being involved in close proximity , should be avoided . Mr . May noted that there are actually three spans required . Mr . Frantz mentioned the intersection at Bear Paw Lane and Falling Water Drive . Ms . Langhans replied that that needs to be redesigned . Chairman Grigorov stated that there seems to be cul de sacs right where the little stand of big trees are . Mr . Lesser stated that it sounded like considerable work has to be done . Robert Miller • mentioned less density and redesign . Mr . Frantz wondered if the alignment of the streets , other than the intersection at Bear Paw and Falling Water , were okay , adding , for instance , the intersection with Planning Board - 32 - April 4 , 1989 • Route 89 . Chairman Grigorov wondered what the Board felt about that . Mr . May responded that he thought the Route 89 intersection could be done , with Chairman Grigorov stating that she did not see any better alternative for that . Ms . Langhans offered that , if the developer would be going for more clustering in the open field area , which is toward the southwest , then the roads would change . Mr . May stated that it looked to him as though the project engineer really tried to lay the proposal , basically , on a conventional plat , i . e . , saying , we will have a little less density up there , and we will call this cluster . Mr . May stated that he personally felt it needs to go back , and basically start over again , commenting , there are certainly great economies to be realized by not making some of those crossings , and , to make compound crossings the way it is shown , gives one questions as to how much thought really went into it . Ms . Clarke stated that she believed part of the thought that went into it is a different definition of what a stream is , and the fact that the engineer went on the site , and he still did not consider that those entities were streams , and that one crossing , if she is correct , was to be diverted , it was not intended that those three areas go under that intersection , the drainage would have actually been diverted so that there were two culverts under the intersection . Mr . May responded that when he sees a 20 - foot depth , 4 - foot across the bottom , running a good foot deep at this time of the year , and if the developer is familiar with this area at all , then that can be a lot of water . Ms . Clarke stated that she was just offering that for a point of clarification . Ms . Langhans • stated that she felt everyone cares a little bit more about the environment . Ms . Clarke commented that she hoped that was not saying more than the developer does , or more than they do in trying to make a layout . Ms . Langhans stated that it looked as though the developer had not been on the land , with Ms . Clarke answering , he has , and has tried to comply with the drainage , the woodlands , and all of the other factors in providing a layout . Ms . Langhans remarked that she thought the developer has been very sensitive to the woodlands ; it is the drainage that she thought stood out , mentioning the crossings of the road of the really quite deep ravines . Mr . May noted that there are cul de sacs in locations where some of the prettiest trees on the land are , which would mean , obviously , total clearing of the prettiest trees on the entire parcel . Ms . Clarke wondered if one could actually tell , specifically , where that cul de sac was , in relation to a stand of trees on the parcel , with Ms . Langhans responding , yes , when there is a topo . Mr . May stated that they might have been off 20 feet , but did not think it was a lot more than that . Mr . Frantz stated that the proposed drainage easements have been looked at , and he really thought it is better to forego the proposed drainage easements as shown on the site plan , because , again , they are looked at as being natural water courses , adding that he did not think the Town should be burdened with maintaining streams , which could happen under the easements . Ms . Clarke wondered if Mr . Frantz was referring to the 50 - foot easement along Indian Creek , Mr . Frantz answered , no , it is shown on the proposed drainage areas and flow • patterns , and it is even shown on the preliminary plat . Mr . Frantz stated that there were a number of 20 - foot drainage easements . Ms . Clarke responded that they were proposed swales , and they have to be Planning Board - 33 - April 4 , 1989 • restricted somehow from development . Mr . Frantz commented that the one going through lot # 17 is , at the present time , a natural running stream in a small ravine , noting , it is the same as on lots # 15 and # 21 . Ms . Clarke stated that she did not believe that there was an intent to dedicate the drainage easements to the Town , but maybe those easements are there to preserve those courses , and to make sure that there is no development in that area . Mr . Frantz responded , okay . Attorney Barney wondered who gets the benefit of the easement . Ms . Clarke replied that she guessed all of the people who owned property in the development , which would be upstream . Mr . Frantz mentioned that the one in lot # 3 is a relocated swale and a 20 - foot drainage easement , commenting , that is , perhaps , what prompted him to think that these would be , somehow , drainageways , which , if the homeowners did not maintain them , then the Town may be held responsible for going in there at Town expense . Ms . Clarke wondered , if one proposes a subdivision and there are constructed swales , how are they protected on a plat that is normally before the Board , so that they are not developed and can retain their ability to . . . . . . Att orney Barney interjected that what has been done is one way of doing it ; there are some instances where the Town wants a drainage easement , when they are concerned about a particular area , where the Town wants the ability to go onto the land . Ms . Clarke wondered if it was acceptable to make an easement , but just make sure that the Town is not mentioned . Mr . Frantz answered , yes , and again , the Town is distinguishing between constructed drainage swales and what we believe are natural stream • forces . Ms . Clarke remarked that she understood there was not an interest in having an easement along Indian Creek , adding , there was a 50 - foot reserve strip along Indian Creek , Mr . Frantz remarked that drainage easement would be the wrong term ; it would be more buffer . Mr . May wondered if the Town needed a management easement along Indian Creek , with Attorney Barney replying that he did not think so ; a buffer or dedicated open space would be better . Ms . Beeners stated that she did not think the Town wanted that one . Ms . Beeners stated that it should be recognized , concerning Indian Creek , that that is being considered as a possible unique natural area , at the present time , by the EMC , commenting , it is on one of their lists to be checked out . Ms . Beeners noted that it appeared to her , in looking at the plan , and what they were attempting to do , as far as a buffer with no easement , that a restrictive covenant on those affected lots would probably be the best way to manage that area , and the northern woods was probably a more important part to try and preserve as park . Ms . Clarke wondered if the proposal for Indian Creek is one that would be acceptable , as long as it was not named as a drainage easement , adding , there should be a reserve within which no development could take place , with Ms . Beeners answering , yes . Mr . Frantz mentioned that , perhaps as part of the natural area easement , a section in the covenants could indicate that there be no cut , or clearing , within 50 - feet of Indian Creek . Ms . Beeners wondered if the Board wanted to adjourn the matter until there is an additional alternative plat submitted , or were they • asking for a couple of alternatives to weigh the possibilities of reduced density on the entire site , versus increasing the density in the white area shown on the plan , which is , possibly , going to have Planning Board - 34 - April 4 , 1989 • some special erosion type concerns . Ms . Beeners wondered if the Board was looking for the developer to provide some alternatives that would show what some of the costs and benefits are . Robert Miller commented that he felt density should be reduced on the whole site . Chairman Grigorov stated that she thought progress has been made . Stephen Smith mentioned the . fact of compacting it , and having all kinds of developers coming in building a house here and there without any control of erosion . Ms . Clarke said that there would be control in terms of the architectural review . Mr . Smith said he was talking about run - off and monitoring . At this time , Rosalind Grippi , of 423 E . Seneca Street , spoke from the floor and stated that it seemed to her that since this was a recognized wildlife wintering area , it would be appropriate to leave an area inaccessible on this particular land . There appearing to be no further discussion or comments from the Board , Chairman Grigorov asked if anyone were prepared to offer a motion . MOTION by James Baker , seconded by Montgomery May : RESOLVED , that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board adjourn and hereby does adjourn the review of Cayuga Lake Estates sine die , to allow time for the developer to present additional information . • There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote . Aye - Grigorov , May , Langhans , Baker , Kenerson , Lesser , Miller , Smith . Nay - None . Chairman Grigorov indicated that , for everyone ' s information , the above MOTION constituted Notice to the public that the Public Hearing is adjourned without date , it will be re - advertised and notices mailed . Chairman Grigorov declared the matter of the review of preliminary plat application submissions for the proposed Cayuga Lake Estates duly adjourned at 11 : 15 p . m . AGENDA ITEM : Planning Department Report At this time , Town Planner Susan Beeners reported on a concept plan that she had received for another subdivision . Ms . Beeners commented that she was asked by the designers of " Rose Hill Subdivision " if there was any possibility that they could proceed into some kind of preliminary subdivision consideration . Ms .. Beeners said that she was informed the developers have hired a landscape architect , along with presenting a more accurate topo map . Ms . Beeners stated that the new plan does not have the boxy look of the previous plan . Indicating on the appended map Ms . Beeners pointed out that the connection between " these " two roads has been eliminated . Ms . Beeners offered that she had talked with the designer about the roads , and he suggested that there could be a phasing to only allow coming in about Planning Board - 35 - April 4 , 1989 N 1 , 000 feet , and possibly having an emergency access road that the developer would construct , and later be a public trail built over " here " . Mr . May mentioned that the developer was told that he had to have access to the adjoining properties . Ms . Beeners stated that there is a possibility providing access to the adjoining property " here " . Ms . Beeners said that , as far as fire safety , the developers know they have to sprinkle the buildings . Ms . Beeners offered that all the open space would be privately owned by a Homeowners ' Association , Ms . Beeners noted that a 25 - foot strip would be reserved in which a Town trail could be constructed . Ms . Beeners stated that she would report back to the developers as to the concerns of access , and the private park land issue , adding that she would also tell them to come before the Board with a sketch plan . AGENDA ITEM : CONSIDERATION OF APPOINTMENT OF PLANNING BOARD VICE CHAIR . At this time , Board Member Robert Kenerson stated , for the record , that he did not think it really fair to the Planning Board and to the members involved , to have the Town Board playing a little politics with the appointment of Chairman to the Planning Board . Mr . Kenerson stated that he felt it was quite clear that it was a political move , commenting that it is not fair to Carolyn Grigorov , at this stage , and certainly not fair to Montgomery May . MOTION by Mr . Robert Kenerson , seconded by Mr . Montgomery May : RESOLVED , that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board elect and hereby does elect Mrs . Virginia Langhans as its Vice Chairman for the year 1989 . There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote . Aye - Grigorov , May , Baker , Kenerson , Lesser , Miller , Smith . Nay - None . Abstain - Langhans . The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously . ADJOURNMENT Upon Motion , Chairman Grigorov declared the April 4 , 1989 , meeting of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board duly adjourned at 11 : 30 p . m . Respectfully submitted , Mary Bryant , Recording Secretary , Nancy M . Fuller , Secretary , Town of Ithaca Planning Board . SUMAIiARY OF IEFORMATION RELATIVE TO PLA C &i R1 T OF TREE NORTH OF LOTS 1 THROUGH 6 IN FOREST HOME HIGHLANDS SUBDIVISION 1 . The &gineer ss Report read at the Final Subdivision Approval for the Forest Home Highlands Subdivision statess "Cornell will main- tain the Open Space and develop a buffer of trees and fencing to protect home sites from the driving range " ( p . 5 of minutes of the Planning Board meeting held Dec . 17 , 1985 , attached ) . The approved final plat for this development similarly shows a double row of evergreens to be planted by Correll , north of lots 1 through 6 . It is apparent that the Cornell Golf Course would now like to back out of its commitment to the planting of these trees . It should be remembered , however , that the Planning Board decided that the open Space requirement for this development would be best satisfied by establishing a buffer zone between the driving range and the rear yards of lots 1 through 6 ( see D . 5 , minutes of the Planning Board meeting held Dec . 17 , 1985 ) . This buffer zone was not established as a convenience for Cornell , and it was not intended to serve as an extension of the driving range . Rather , its purpose was to protect home sites from the driving range . 2 . Apparently , the Cornell golf course agreed to install trees and fencing in the buffer zone in exchange for obtaining the title to this land . This agreement is referred to (but not spelled out ) on D . 6 of the minutes of the Planning Board meeting held on Dec . 17 , 1985 ( attached ) , where John Hertel stated that Cornell had written him a letter agreeing to this arrangement . The Town of Ithaca does not have jurisdiction EXHIBIT 1 P . 2 over a contract between two private parties . If Cornell does not live up to its part of the bargain , the contract becomes null and void , and ownership of the land presumably reverts to the estate of :fAr . John Hertel . Thus , the Forest Home Highlands development would not have its requisite open space . Perhaps the developer could then purchase this land from the estate of Mr . Hertel , or designate other land within the development as the open space required . 3 . It is my understanding that the Cornell golf course intends to restrict the use of wooden drivers and to slightly realign the driving range in order to reduce the likelihood of golf balls being hit into adjoining home sites . Although this seems prudent , there is no guarantee that this plan is going to be either effective or permanent . Mr . Fenner has resigned effective sometime this summer , and I understand that any policies which Mr . Fenner institutes could be easily changed by any subsequent Head Professional . Transitory policies are no substitute for legally enforceable long -term solutions . In addition to being temporary , the golf course ' s proposed modifications are also of unknown effectiveness . If the Board is willing to give Cornell the benefit of the doubt , they should test the effectiveness of these alternate measures . Perhaps enforcement of the planting of the trees could simply be postponed until eithers a ) the alternate proposals have proven ineffective ( if , say , five or more balls go into the yards of adjacent home sites ) , OR b ) one or more adjacent landowners request that the trees be planted . is It is also possible that more than two rows of trees would be necessary in order to adequately protect the home sites . EXHIBIT 1 p • 3 4 . If the Board does decide to stand by its earlier decision and therefore deny the Request for Modification , perhaps it would be wise to stipulate a completion date for the planting of the trees , and a penalty if this date is not met . I do not mean to be pessimistic , but past experience has indicated that the golf course can sometimes be slow to act on its commitments . In 1984 , the Cornell golf course was directed by Associate University Counsel Thomas Santoro to plant trees on golf course property along the northern boundary of our property at 135 Warren Road , in order to screen our house and yard , to some extent , from incoming shots from the tenth tee ( see copies of letters by Bowman and Santoro , attached. ) . It has been five years , and still no trees have been planted . Perhaps a deadline would help to encourage a more timely compliance than this . Respectfully Submitted , B ce Brit air 135 Warren Road April 4 , 1989 • EXHIBIT 1 • Planning Board - 5 - December 17 , 1985 Nthe Warren Road crossing at a 20 inch steel pipe culvert recently installed by Tompkins County . Positive drainage from foundation footer drains to natural swales or swales shaped along lot lines and roadside ditches are most important . Old agricultural field tile should be terminated at surface ' swales being shaped or be removed where alignment is through a building site to prevent excessive ground water from coming up against the foundations . The land is generally sloping in three directions to the west along the new road , to the southwest , and to the southeast . The largest area any roadside culvert would have to drain ( along the south boundary of Brittain ) is approximately 4 acres which in a 20 minute 2 inch rainfall could flow approximately 5 - 6 cfs which an 18 inch CMP or equivalent could easily accommodate at 1 % grade . Driveway culverts need not exceed 15 inch CMP as each would drain a very small area . The new road culvert at Warren Road would be an elliptical 13 inch x 22 inch equivalent or an 18 inch round culvert to allow sufficient cover . Drainage paths are shown on the subdivision map . The area south of the new road just east of Warren Road will be filled to channel water along the road ditch rather than through the neighboring property . With the land relatively flat little erosion is anticipated and that during construction can be filtered by hay bales , filter dams , etc . Traffic . Thirteen lots could on the average generate 130 vehicular trips per day . With present use- of Warren Road under 4000 AADT , the additional trips are a minor addition and the new total significantly less than its probable capacity of 10000 - 14000 AADT . The same conclusion is true of the peak hour traffic which is roughly 10 % of daily totals . Visibility in both directions at the new intersection with Warren Road is excellent . Land Use . Residential use is ideal for this location as residences border on the west and south , Cornell Plantations borders on the east , and the Cornell golf course borders on the north . Cornell will maintain the Open Space and develop a buffer of trees and fencing to protect home sites from the driving range . ( sgd . ) Philip L . COX NYSPE 52271 " Chairman May asked if there were any further questions . Mr . Bruce Brittain , 135 Warren Road , spoke from the floor , stated that he had a question about the open land , and asked what the purpose of that was . Commenting that Mr . Brittain was talking about the park , Mr . Lovi stated that , at the time of the preliminary subdivision review , it is common in proposed subdivisions to set aside an area of land - - 10 % - - as open space dedication . Mr . Lovi stated that they calculated that and concluded , as a consensus of the Board , that the best place , rather than a park per se to set set aside an area was as shown as a buffer for the Correll gc f course . Chair. --ian May noted that it is to ae conveyed to Cornell University . • Mr . Isadore Blumen , 122 Warren Road , spoke from the floor and asked what Cornell will do with that land . Attorney Henry Theisen stated that they will keep it open and undeveloped . Chairman May EXHIBIT 1 Planning Board - 6 - December 17 , 1985 • pointed out that they are planting trees , etc . Mr . Lambert Brittain stated that he just wondered if Cornell has agreed to this , with Mr . Hertel responding , yes , adding that they have written a letter agreeing to it , however , the transfer has not occurred . Mr . Brittain asked if this approval were based on that , with Chairman May responding , no . Mr . Brittain asked if the houses that are being put in were to be single or double , adding that they have not heard anything about the type of house . Mr . Varn responded that they will all be single family homes , 1 , 800 square feet and up , $ 175 , 000 . 00 and up , adding that , according to the Town , they are allowed " grandmother " apartments , so , if somebody buys the single family house , they could do that . Mr . Brittain stated that that means that thirteen lots equals twenty - six families equals twenty - six cars . Chairman May closed the Public Hearing at 8 : 05 p . m . and turned the matter over to the Board for discussion . Mr . Klein wondered if it were necessary- to waive anything on the cul de sac where the lots do not meet the exact frontage requirements . Mr . Lovi pointed out that the lots - meet : the requirements at the setback . Chairman May offered that the Board could consider a waiver . Chairman May noted that the Board did deal with the environmental issues at the time of preliminary approval and stated that at this point the Board is looking at a very nice set of finished drawings • which are very complete . Chairman May asked Mr . Lovi if he has reviewed the proposal and approved all aspects , to which Mr . Lovi responded , yes . MOTION by Mr . David Klein , seconded by Mrs . Barbara Schultz : RESOLVED , that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board grant and hereby does grant Final Subdivision Approval to " Forest Home Highlands " , a 13 - lot subdivision at 130 Crest Lane , Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No . 6 - 66 - 3 - 3 . 2 , as shown on map entitled , " Forest Home Highlands , Final Subdivision Plat " , dated December 3 , 1985 , revised December 6 , 1985 , developed by Varn Bros . Constr . Co . , survey by C . Brashear , L . S . 38194 , waiving the requirement for 100 feet of frontage for Lots No . 6 , 7 , 8 , and 9 , at the end of the cul de sac , finding that the strict application of the specifications and provisions of this regulation will cause unnecessary and significant hardship and practical difficulties , and determining that neither a significant alteration of the purpose of subdivision control is made , nor the policy enunciated or implied by the Town Board in adopting. this regulation is impaired , and further RESOLVED , that no building permit shall be issued until the developer shows that a stamped copy of the Final Subdivision Plat is on file in the office of the Tompkins County Clerk . • There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote . Aye - May , Grigorov , Langhans , Klein , Schultz , Baker . Nay - None . EXHIBIT 1 • ADAMS , THEISEN & NASH ATTORNEYS AND COUNSELORS AT LAW 301 THE CLINTON HOUSE HENRY W. THEISEN 103 WEST SENECA STREET RALPH W. NASH ITHACA, NY 14850 ARMAND L. ADAMS 1911 - 1983 STEPHEN M. BOWMAN 607-272.3442 April 25 , 1984 Prof . W . Lambert Brittain 135 Warren Road Ithaca , New York 14850 Re : Brittain v . Cornell University Golf Course Dear Professor Brittain : On April 24 , 1984 , I met at the golf. course with Tom Santoro from the University Counsel ' s Office and Jim Fenner , the club professional , to discuss your problems with golfers and golf balls intruding on your property . The University has agreed to take the following steps to improve the situation . 1 ) Place a sign on the 10th tee ( the sign has already been ordered ) informing golfers that your property is private and not to look for balls landing in your yard . 2 ) Place signs on the edges of your property informing golfers that your yard is private and not to search for errant balls . 3 ) Plant some trees along your northerly property line to screen your yard , to some extent , from incoming shots from the 10th tee . The University maintains its position that it is not responsible for last summer ' s broken windshield . As we have dis - cussed previously , with changing personnel and changing attitudes at the University , the policies of the past regarding broken windows on your property are not present policies . As always , the individual golfer is responsible for damages caused by his shots , but I realize it is usually difficult or impossible to identify a particular culprit and hold him responsible . As a practical matter , you might investigate buying insurance coverage for the glass in your houses and vehicles . • EXHIBIT 1 • Re : Brittain v . Cornell University Golf Course Page 24 / 25 / 84 By copy of this letter to Mr . Fenner and Mr . Santoro , I am confirming my understanding with them as to the steps to be taken to minimize the Problems you have had in the past . Please give me a call to discuss these matters . Very truly yours , ADAMS , THEISEN & NASH i St,0 a Bowman • SMB / dh CC * Thomas Santoro , Esq . University Counsel ' s Office Mr . James Fenner Cornell University Golf Course is EXHIBIT 1 CORNELL UNIVERSITY Office of the ■ F= CEI v t FJ ( 607 ) 256- 5124 University Counsel and Edmund Ezra Day Hall Secretary of the Corporation "! � % ; . : Ithaca, New York 14853 ADAMS a THE] Apra 01984 Stephen M . Bowman , Esq . ADAMS THEISEN & NASH 301 The Clinton House 103 West Seneca Street Ithaca , New York 14850 Re : Brittain complaints Dear Mr . Bowman : I am in receipt of yours of April 25 , 1984 , regard - ing the above and wish to hove you convey to your client certain clarifications . With respect to the placement of signs and the planting of trees , I presume it is understood that Cornell will place signs and trees on its property , not on your client ' s . I would strongly recommend that your client con - sider placing signs on his own property as well ( for which he would be responsible ) if he judges this to be a problem . Quite frankly , this is something he could and probably should have done all along to improve the situation . As Jim Fenner reported to you when we met on the 24th , the 10th hole has been there since 1941 , long before Professor Brittain ' s houses were built . Notwithstanding this fact , Jim Fenner has ' agreed to the accommodations of planting trees and placing signs as a neighborly gesture . I hope that your client will accept it in the spirit in which it is of - fered . By copy of this letter , I am asking Jim Fenner to take note of these clarifications and to assure that both trees and signs placed by the University are placed on its property , not on the property of others . Very truly yours , Th as Mead Santoro ssociate University Counsel TMS : crd • cc : Jim Fenner EXHIBIT 1 /! itatement of Doria Higgins before Town of Ithaca Planning 3oard April 4 , 1989 r Y I would like to bring to your attention two aspects of the nebotiations between the -town and the Lucas Retirement Community Developer which I think need clarification and / or rectification . h :l, 1 . The first issue concerns the income level of prospective residents in that community . Although a number of people have expressed support of this project on the grounds that it will offer moderate income housing to the elderly , tha fact is that them lij is absolutely no commitment whatsoever in writing from the ; developer as to economic status of residents . r i I would like to suggest that you make a condition of yoga = I app � oval of this site planthatthere be a commitment in writing from the J and opar to make his units affordable to people of moderate income and nopafully some affordable to people of low income . 2 . I find the language in the re zoning document I1 concern .Idd the arovision of water and sewage to the retirement community distressingly oven and vague . As a person who lives and works in Ithaca , on West Hill , I object to the town providing servicez, to out of town developers which result in . . local residents paying higher taxes for loss of open space and environmental beauty . I re 'iuest that your approval of the Lucas retireTent co �amunity plan be contingent on promise in writing from the develore = that he will _ pay , or t46 he provision . of water and sewage to his de.ve o - � = . ii • , Mr . Lucas ,may . be a man of good. . will : and a social worker . . but this . is . i clearly. a . business investment for him - - one on which he expects to make a profit . I do not wait his profit to come out of . my oockat i0. the form of higher taxes to pay for services to his development . . In co %nclusion I . woulc . . like to, publicly protest. re oning of agricultural land to residential uses at a time when the town is compiling a comprehensive plan . I think it most unforture � a timing and one that casts doubts _ on the usefulness- of the . planni no process 1n .the 701don . of Ithaca . " v._ . , EXHIBIT 2 47 L , 1 67� CMH Associates BOX 441 / BOOTHDAY HARBOR, MAINE 045381 (207) 6634US March 27 , 1989 Susan Beeners , Planner Town of Ithaca 1.26- . East . Seneca Street Ithaca , New York 14850 a Dear Susan : IBM writing as a follow -up to our last meeting and to y „ intentions 11 . 11concerning the restrictions on . restate m . ownership /. occupancy in the " I '" di Community . . . . i.ntend , to. .. follow the requirements detailed in the local law . - - adopted by the Town Board resiticting ' occupancy to - persons over ., . . age fifty four who are owners or relatives of : the . owner . I will also observe the restrictions limiting rentals Ctwelve . oF thirty six and / or twenty four of sixty months ) . These restrictions were discussed prior to their adoption and are consistent with my goal of the units being owned by their I occupants . i I . hope that this letter will be of use . Feel free to contact i me if yQu need any additional information . Sincerely , Cott R . Lucas • EXHIBIT 3 Consultants in Management and tivalth G. rl T* "0No r. ?�1� •�w �Ny ; i ' CLARK ENGINEERS • March 319 1989 Northstar Drillings Attn : Jeff. Thew Po Box 67 Courtlan , NY 13045 . Re : Request for Proposals Geotechnical Investigation Cayuga Lake Estates Ithaca , New York Gentlemen : This letter is written to solicit proposals for an geotechnical investigation in the grown of Ithaca , New York * like purposes of the investigation are to define the geotechnical design requirements for the construction of improvements ; 1 . Roadways & Utilities . • a .,, pavt-.ment design -criteria . including ... frost protection ; b . engineered fill requirements ; c . pavement underdrain requirements & ground water conditions ; d . out and fill slope stability ; e . depth to rock and description of rock relative to e.%Tpected excLavation techniques ; f . erosion protection . . Residence Construction a . typical allowed foundation bearing pressures ; w h . groundwater conditions relative to basement construction. v It Eiiel.osed is a - Preliminary Plat of the proposed single fw1kily residential - subdjvision ' . showing . preliminary locations of 14 borings . The l,or : locations can " be altered somewhat • in • the field to adapt to - local conditions as necessary for Vou to safely conduct -the work . You will be responsible J'or safely conducting the investigation , .for locating the borip9s and Jor , determining the ground surface elevation at the borings . No problems are anticipated in obtaining landowner permission for access to the site . Bulldozing of access roads will not be rxnriitted without the landowner ' s r• ior permission and then only to minimum extent necessary along; pr•ot;osed roadways . It is anticipated that at a minimum the investigation w:i1 .l include 16 Split spoon sampling at a maximum 2- 1 / 2 ft . intervals with Standard • penetration test ; 2 . Water content and unconfined compressive strength tests of all cohesive soil samples ; EXHIBIT 4 Consulting Engineers Clark Engineers MW , Inc . 205 Muller Road Washington , Illinois 61571 309 - 444 - 8464 f w, • MECHANICAL • STRUCTURAL • SURVT YING March 31 , 1989 Page 2 3 . Visual and unified classification of soil samples ; 4 . Ground water level observations . during boring and 24 hours after corupletion ; 5 . Atterburg limit testing of representative samples of soil ; 6 . Standard Proctor dry density - testing and CBR . testing of at least two typical available fill materials $ 7 . UPS shipment of jarred soil samples to this office following testir . The exploration and testing results together with design recoumendations are to be presented in a written report . Five copies of the report are to be shipped to this office . The minimum depth of exploration will be until rock is encountered ( no rock coring is required ) or tothe deeper. of : a ) 10 ft . below proposed street grade or. b ) 1 ft . below the proposed sewer flowline or c ) 10 ft . below existing ground . The anticipated corresponding end of exploration elevations are . Boring DcDloration To . 1 - 7"19Op 2 748 3 727 4 695 i 5 711 i 6 674 7 720 _ 8 677 9 638 10 - 680 11 615 12 580 13 . 538 14 493 • EXHIBIT 4 • March 31 , 1989 Page 3 Your input regarding the scope of work is invited . Please submit your price proposal and anticipated schedule for completion to this address by Friday , April 14 . The project will proceed upon Town Planning Board approval of the. Preliminary Plat to be presented at the April 4th meeting . We request that you hold your proposal open until June . l5th to allow for possible delays in the approval process . If there are arty questions , please calls Very truly yours , C F: ENGINEERS MWMW , INC . Steve Blust PJL/SRB : lc Ence cc : file . 5107 . 10 _ . • . David A . McArdle , developer Leslie Reizes Ann Clark Down of Ithaca " . : EXHIBIT 4 . 1 . j • CLARK ENGINEERS LIST . OF ADDRESSES P . S . I . , Pittsburg Testing Lab Div Attn : Peter Bloomquist , Div . Mgr . 6159 E . Molloy Rd . E . Syracuse , NY 13057 Empire Soils Investigations Attn : Mary L ' Amoreaux 105 Corona Ave . Groton , NY 13073 Northstar Drillings Attni Jeff Thew - • PO Box 67 Courtlan , NY 13045 i a EXHIBIT 4 Consulting Engineers Clark Engineers MW, Inc. 205 Muller Road Washington , Illinois 61571 309 - 444 - 8464 — ry, VIL • MECHANICAL • STRUCTURAL • SURVEYING I • PROPOSE12 CA Ge LAS ESTATE Comments on Preliminary Plat Submission for April 4 , 1989 . . , Planning Board Please also refer to comments of • March , 7 , 1989 Open Space There is no feasible access to the proposed " Outlot A " as shown on the plat . Access from the . proposed Falling Waters Drive would be blocked by the + / - 30 ' deep ravine . Access from he—proposed - extension of Orehara H111 Read would not be possible due to the steep slope of the ravine sides , which make construction of any means - of - access unfeasible . Staff suggests that access to the . proposed park site be provided from the end of the Orchard Hill Road cul - de - sac , as extended , using a portion of the area taken by lot 11 or lot 12 where a park access . road and parking area could be combined with access to the proposed Pump Station # 1 in its presently proposed location or as it might be relocated . The area along the ravine currently proposed as an access point should then ' be incorporated into adjoining lots . Deed covenants to protect the ra�iie sides and- rim can be used to - - • ' protect the ravine and stream corridor . : ' Minimum setbacks from the rim of the ravine , , similar to those implemented in the deed covenants for the Southwoods . subdivision , may be appropriate . Proposed " Outlot4B" is not considered approporiate for inclusion as public open space , but only for the proposed sewer facility . ll nsity . Conservation of Woodlaadl Wildlife Areas In order to conserve more fully the more mature woodland covering the northern + / - •01 / 3 of the site and reduce potentially adverse environmental impacts , the lots in that area of the project should be enlarged . This would reduce the number of homes and amount of disturbance to the natural environment . Within the group . comprising lots 8 through 13 , elimination of two lots and the enlargement of the remainder is recommended . Within the group comprising lots 19 through 26 , elimination of two lots , and the enlargement of the remainder is recommended . Because access to the proposed Outlot A from the proposed Falling Water Drive and extension of Orchard Hill Road is not feasible , both roads could be shortened and the cul - de - sac pulled away from the edge of the ravineAif the platting of lots 7 to 13 and 19 to 26 is revised . EXHIBIT 5 • In addition the proposed " Natural Area Easement " for lots 7 to 35 and lots 42 to 46 outlined in the proposed deed covenants and restrictions should be strengthened . The area of dwelling lots from which living . trees and shrubs can- be removed should be revised downward from the 50 % proposed to a maximum limit of - 12 , 500 square feet per lot , especially on the . 20 lots ( lots # 7 to 17 , 19 to 26 , 32 ) which are covered by mature woodland , ( 40 year old or older undisturbed forest ) and those lots adjacent to Indian Creek , Under the proposed 50 % ceiling , an average of approximately 24 , 000 square feet of living trees and shrubs could be removed from these lots or a. combined total of approximately 14 . 3 acres . The 12 , feet limit would , reduee t e -amount of disturbed area within these lots to approximately 7 . 5 acres . Adoption of the 12 , 500 square feet . limit on removal of living trees and shrubs on the abovementioned lots , combined with modification of the plat within the mature woodland portion of the tract to eliminate four lots would reduce the total amount of disturbance within the woodland that covers the northern 1 / 3 of the site from approximately 10 acres to _. approximately 5 . 5 acres : We believe that this reduction in amount of site disturbance would substantially mitigate the potentially significant impacts of . the proposed development on the areas of mature woodland and along Indian Creek . . • Lots 27 and 28 on the " Conventional ' Layolit are not legal lots under Town of Ithaca Zoning requirements - for R- 15 districts . Neither lot meets the minimum 150 feet requirement for lot depth , and cannot be used in determining site density . inagg A number of . watercourses which flow through the project area appear upon field inspection to be .established intermittent or - year round - streams -. Preliminary - review of proposed _ . drainage plans , including diversion of these streamg , indicates that revisions to , the drainage plans may be necessary . Of special concern is the diversion of some .of these streams and of much of the drainage . from areas west of the site into the stream in the ravine on the north side of the site . This stream is a " Classified " stream ( though not " Protected " ) per the New York State Department - of Environmental Conservation . Staff recommends that the proposed drainage easements ( through lots 3 , 6 , 14 , 15 , 17 , 19 , 20 , 21 , 23 , 24 , 26 , 32 , 34 , 42 , and 43 ) be eliminated , Responsibility for maintaining the involved watercourses , a number of which are the intermittent or year round streams identified above , should rest with individual property owners . Protection of these EXHIBIT 5 istreams may be better accomplished through deed covenants which would restrict disturbance in the vicinity of them . C ilv _ r . Desian Detail Design of the fill and culvert proposed for Orchard Hill Road should be reconsidered . Staff has some concerns regarding the gradient of the proposed culvert , as well as provisions for stream velocity and , energy dissipation at the culvert outfall which should be address . The stone riprap embedded in concrete as proposed , while attractive , may have – — --limited–durabi ity and should be reconsidered . �Sil�ring� Soil •borings should be conducted and test results submitted to Town engineering staff prior to any further environmental review or to Preliminary . Subdivision Approval by the Planning Board . Due to the number of� roads in the' Ithaca Post" Office service • area that begin with "lake" il , an alternative to " Lakeview Court " as a street name should be found . Clustered Development The proposed plat modifications discussed above may assist in mitigating potential impacts of development on this site . Th6' - Planhing Board should - -al'so consider whether the, . objectives of cluster development , . particularly as stated in Article . I , Section 2 and Article , V - of the Town of Ithaca Subdivision Regulat-ioris would: , be met . - EXHIBIT 5 s ENGINEERING CONSIDERATIONS Erik Whitney Asst . Engineer PLANNING - DO M MTG . 4 /4 /89 CAYOGA LAKE ESTATES : 1 ) Ravine crossings : From an engineering standpoint building roads across these ravines is very possible . In the Town we have 33 crossings over these same ravines along Taughannock . Blvd . ( N . Y . S . Rt . 89 ) and approximately .an equal number - across the old rail bed . Since most of these crossings entail con- siderable earthwork , erosion protection measures and , . therefore , expense , the Planning Board should consider the following very carefully , a . D_ esian lifer The design life of these , crossings . should be somewhere in the Y neighborhood• of ' 100 years + , because at some time : in the future the Town will have to replace them at its own expense . b . Maintenance Our Highway dept . willahave .... .: . at a minimum , the additional tasks of periodic inspection and routine clearing of debris from these crossings to prevent blockage , . . . . t w. . c . , Drainage Easements: The . Town .should be very careful , in ' . accepting responsibility . for any of these drainageways outside of our roadway rights of way . There are other regulatory and legal controls in place to insure that private owners do not obstruct or divert these watercourses , The Town could run up a large bill keeping these streams " pretty " between all these private residences . 2 ) Additional. -Provisions : The developer should provide the r Town engineering department with design calculations as well as plans in critical areas to be determined by the Town Engineer . EXHIBIT 6 __:'":b7;:..^it i .a .arr w'_ _ • w e - 1� 1, .'•.... s•+1'A¢4 �q w 9.. it i -�.Tr'.arl= �+...� s - ' _.._. _"x° �_ �". _ q.r 'L1.1F _ • 9 �„ J.y ^ r}P+!• -'� .�; � w S 4 - C �'-' > ..'OC ,�,K �. k i -xca yTP 'Sa.n._ 4Cni f � � -` ���. "�', • 1- V . :yf " r v - S � _♦ � •.r- T' „�� �i• ov r Y . a... u. _ Fy .JL , Cr .. .., T•* .mow, + .. .'Y,y�T-�.-y�� .sn v f L�{. may., _ m C'�' L � " '�f ` .: :' n _• r ! � ✓fir • Ye! p � e r-. 1 4 -+ _ . TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING% }' r- s- - BOARD NOTICE OF PUBLIC THE HEARING TUES. , APRIL 4, 1989 IT� AC4kJOURNALBy direction of the Chairman r of the Planning Board, NOTICE �� . IS HEREBY GIVEN, that ' Public Hearings will be held by'fhe Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca on Tuesday April. , 4, r � , 1989, in Town Hall , 126 East tr is Cm."' , Seneca Street, Ithaca; N. Y. , 'alt - the following times and on the following matters: ` _ 7: 30 P. M. Consideration of 6 DSL^ ^ � y � fes:".., rd "JOfGS a- - V ; > . . . .. . . . .. . . .. . . _ . _... . .. . . ___ e _ Request forModificationof the terms of Final Subdivision r,� � Approval with respect to` ' � = ii �'S , ! -_ z �! 1 t✓: L 24 :SCS. Q0U�i *)' AzWJ rwe 1&Z"Mcm)z Iz ;; "double row of evergreens to be planted by Cornell north of Lots 1 through 6", as noted on f C the Forest Home Highlands mit �' 3! .. _ .. - -- - __.-• --. - . --- •-- • - --- - - • -- . ._ . ._ . .... _. ... . ._. ` _. .. the Drive ) : Final Plat of Tai IrsieA TOL?a � S J}J�1C fxw z - to � � :tit doted/6/85, 1 approved rbyt the , 2 _ . _ F. _.. P P• . ++Z '_. Planning Board on 12/17/85.- James H. Fenner, Head Pro- fessional, Cornell . University = a' L.3'.II '. �' D+,LI^. t; of iwwhi "b t:a &=ex &d is ! bt v :. _ _ Golf Course, Applicant. : : : 7: 45 P.M. Consideration of 1sZ :��, L $ILL pav1t_ Site Plan Approval fora tial pro- 41Y)o � ._.- _ . ..� . . _.._ .- .•.._._�__ _,_�.•.,• osed 5,000 ft. commercial p sq building, with parking . and Ot outdoor display, for Cannon aYtY _ Q Recreation and Spa of Ithaca, "' - " "' - - - --•• •• - •-•-• proposed to be located. on ,a 2. 016 plus/minus acre parce11 . proposed to be subdivided .. .- - - . . . _. . . - ... . . . . . . .. . . . . . _ _ . . . .. . .. . . . . . . - .... . .. . .. .. . . _ .. _ - -. _ ... - . . _ ..._ . -. - - from Parcel No. 6.33-3-2. 2, for which Preliminary Subdivision' Approval , with conditions,' t �L► � L`- L" S� C . S _ _ D : _ Y U-L! pC 1L• E r • _-•__• _ . was granted by the Planning: Board on March 7, 1989, Light. R Industrial District. Earland and 7 C � Robert d Axenfed,Mancini, I 8:00 P. M. Consideration of Q�-� Preliminary Subdivision. . Ap- - - - • c .ate -`-- • _ proval with respect to the pro- . _ posed "Indian Creek C Retire- ment Community". for .the 1 C _ � _ t� !^ C fN'• 'C � ; fir • t ' r � J `. proposed subdivision of Town - ' ' ' � " "" - "- " - " of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 6-24-1 / 1 -23 and a portion of Town of D;r 9 Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 6-24-1 - - - ' - ' " - ' - = • --• • • • 1111• 32 with access onto Trumans- burg Road, 69 plus/minus acres total, into a 60-unit sin- ,- gle- or two-family attached - - - .l�.r_ _. ._ ._ . ... .... .. . . . . .._.—_____ clustered subdivision, on 80- x0rc:wy 'LLb , unit retirement condominium- /cooperative , and public JEAN i � � v � . open space. CMH Associates, . � Owner ; HOLT Architects, Notary Public; �ta -a Of i� P. W (Or1<C Agent. 8 : 30 P. M. Review of Prelimi- I ;. No. 40/ 4 �I 0 nary Plat application submis- sionsor the proposed "Coyu Qualified in Tc PII( ins Count,,/ go ga Lake Estates" clustered subdivision, proposed to Con Commission expires May 31 19 . .� sist -oftsingle-famity lots and propci , w uc--tucarea east of Orchard Hill Road and west of N. Y. S. Rt. 89, on Town - of Ithaca Tax Parcels No. 6-22-. . 2-2. 2, -2. 9, and 6-21 -1 -5, 65.9 _ plus/minus acres total, Resi- dente District R-30. Edward McArdle and Leslie N. Reiz, ' . Owners; David A. McArdle, ' {_ _ -• Applicant. T Said Planning Board will at - said times and said place hear. all persons in support of such - matters or objections thereto... Persons may appear by agent or in person. ' I Jean H. Swartwood . Town Clerk 273- 1721 March 30, 1989