HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB Minutes 1988-12-06 FILED
TOWN OF ITHACA
Date
® TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD Clerk
DECEMBER 6 , 1988
The Town of Ithaca Planning Board met in regular session on
Tuesday , December 6 , 1988 , in Town Hall , 126 East Seneca Street ,
Ithaca , New York , at 7 : 30 p . m .
PRESENT : Chairman Montgomery May , James Baker , Robert Miller , Robert
Kenerson , Virginia Langhans , David Klein , Carolyn Grigorov ,
Susan Beeners ( Town Planner ) , John C . Barney ( Town Attorney ) ,
George Frantz ( Assistant Town Planner ) , Robert Flumerfelt
( Town Engineer ) .
ALSO PRESENT : Gene Ball , Mr . & Mrs . R . Tobey , Celia Bowers , John
Bowers , Stephen Flash , Esq . , Robert Earle , Ellin Iselin
( WHCU ) , Scott Lucas , John Whitcomb , A . M . Chambliss ,
Martha Mapes , Peter Trowbridge , Rosalind Grippi , S .
Grippi , Barbara Miller Heaton , Joan McMinn , Wendy
Calaway ( WVBR ) , David Herrick , Richard Shriner , Francis
Paoangeli , Scott Lucas , Peter Trowbridge .
Chairman May declared the meeting duly opened at 7 : 30 p . m . and
accepted for the record the Clerk ' s Affidavit of Posting and
Publication of the Notice of Public Hearings in Town Hall and the
0 Ithaca Journal on November 28 , 1988 , and December 1 , 1988 ,
respectively , together with the Clerk ' s Affidavit of Service by Mail of
said Notice upon the various neighbors of each of the properties under
discussion , upon both the Clerk and the Acting Building Commissioner of
the City of Ithaca , upon the Town of Ithaca Town Clerk , upon the
Tompkins County Commissioner of Planning , upon the Regional Manager of
the Finger Lakes State Parks Commission , and upon the applicants and / or
agents , as appropriate , on November 28 , 1988 .
Chairman .May noted that it appeared that not all of the neighbors
had been notified by mail of the Paoangeli Public Hearing , and stated
that the Public Hearing would be adjourned and notice sent to all the
appropriate neighbors .
NON -AGENDA ITEM
Copies of the Building Inspector / Zoning Enforcement Officer ' s
November 1988 Report of Building [Zoning Activities were distributed to
each of the members of the Board .
PUBLIC HEARING : CONSIDERATION OF SUBDIVISION APPROVAL WITH RESPECT TO
THE PROPOSED SUBDIVISION OF TWO PARCELS OF 402 SQ . FT . AND 430 SQ . FT . ,
RESPECTIVELY , :FROM A 0 . 46 ACRE PARCEL LOCATED AT 120 KAY STREET , TOWN
OF ITHACA TAX PARCEL N0 , 6 - 71 - 1 - 49 . BARTH AND MARTHA MAPES ,
APPLICANTS .
Planning Board - 2 - December 6 , 1988
® Chairman May declared the Public Hearing in the above - noted matter
duly opened at 7 : 40 p . m . and read aloud from the Notice of Public
Hearings as posted and published and as noted above .
Mrs . Mapes approached the Board and stated that she and her
husband have lived at 120 Kay street for 27 years . Mrs . Mapes
[ indicating on. map ] noted that the property is at the end of Kay Street
on a turn - a - around , and offered that they owned a small piece on the
other side and. completely controlled the cul de sac . Mrs . Mapes stated
that the property has been sold to the Stedingers , adding that they
[ Mapes ] have moved to Lansing . Mrs . Mapes stated that at the time of
the sale of the house they asked the Stedingers if they would be
interested in the entire property , which is all the way around the
turn - a - around , adding that the Stedingers said no ; they had no reason
to want the property on the other side of the turn - a - around .
Chairman May noted that this was a Public Hearing and asked if
anyone present. wished to speak . No one spoke . Chairman May closed the
Public Hearing at 8 : 43 p . m . and brought the matter back to the Board
for discussion .
Chairman May wondered if there were purchase offers from the Muka
and Park parcE! ls , with Mrs . Mapes answering , no . Mrs . Mapes said that
an interest had been expressed , but that is as far as it has gone .
® Town Planner Susan Beeners stated that it should be contingent
upon the conveyance of parcel " A " to the Muka parcel and " B " to the
Park parcel . Ms . Beeners noted that there is a pre - existing front yard
deficiency , where 22 . 5 feet exists and there should be 25 feet , adding
this may require non - conforming use alteration authorization by the
Zoning Board of Appeals . Ms . Beeners stated that this would be to
subdivide a small piece of the same property to convey parcel " A " and
" B " . Attorney Barney agreed with Ms . Beeners ,
Ms . Beeners stated that the conveyance of parcels " A " and " B " to
the two adjacent lots would give those two lots less than the permitted
frontage on a Town road , if those lots were to be further subdivided .
Robert Earle of 112 Kay Street spoke from the floor and asked for
a brief statement as to exactly what was happening .
Chairman May [ pointing to map ] noted that there are two small
parcels of land on the other side of the road , adding , these two
parcels have been requested to be subdivided from the major parcel .
Ms . Beeners stated that Mrs . Mapes described that it is mainly to clean
up an irregular property situation , and make it so there would be
access from Kay Street to the Muka and Park properties without having
to trespass on the little irregular piece of land . Chairman May stated
that the two properties would have access to Kay Street , it does not
give anyone access from Kay Street to Warren Road .
is
Rodney Tobey of 111 Kay Street approached the Board and wondered
if this could be made so that there would only be one lot instead of
two small lots . Chairman May offered that these lots would not be
Planning Board. - 3 - December 6 , 1988
building lots , the request is to tie the irregular piece of land into
existing lots , which would make the existing lots larger .
At this point , Ms . Beeners stated for everyone ' s information that ,
in the conveyance of the two small pieces to the Park and Muka
properties , neither of the Park or Muka properties meets the zoning
requirments for putting in another house . Ms . Beeners said , if by any
chance that were to happen there would have to be another series of
public hearings , at which time all the neighbors would have input
because certain variances would be required .
There appearing to be no further discussion , Chairman May asked if
anyone were prepared to make a motion .
MOTION by Mr . Robert Kenerson , seconded by Mrs . Carolyn Grigorov :
WHEREAS :
1 . This action is the Consideration of Subdivision Approval with
respect to the proposed subdivision of two parcels of 402 sq . ft .
and 430 sq . ft . , respectively , from a 0 . 46 acre parcel located at
120 Kay Street , Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No . 6 - 71 - 1 - 49 ,
2 . This is a Type II action for which the Planning Board , acting as
Lead Agency for environmental review , has determined that no
further environmental review is necessary .
3 . The Planning Board , at Public Hearing on December 6 , 1988 , has
reviewed " Map of Survey , No . 120 Kay Street " , by Robert Russler
Jr . , dated April 9 , 1988 , revised through September 20 , 1988 , to
show the proposed subdivision .
THEREFORE , IT IS RESOLVED :
1 . That the Planning Board waive and hereby does waive certain
requirements for Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval ,
having determined from the materials presented that such waiver
will result in neither a significant alteration of the purpose of
subdivision control nor the policies enunciated or implied by the
Town Board ,
2 . That the Planning Board grant and hereby does grant Preliminary
and Final Subdivision Approval to the subdivision as herein
proposed , conditional upon the following :
a . The granting by the Zoning Board of Appeals of variance of
Article IV , Section 14 , or other authorization , to permit a
22 . 5 - foot - deep front yard for the existing house .
b . The conveyance of Parcels " A " and " B " to Tax Parcels No .
6 - 71 - 1 - 37 . 1 and - 37 . 2 , respectively , as proposed .
® There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote .
Planning Board - 4 - December 6 , 1988
® Aye - May , Baker , Grigorov , Langhans , Klein , Ken erson , Miller .
Nay - None .
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously .
Chairman May declared the matter of Preliminary and Final
Subdivision Approvals of the Mapes Subdivision duly closed at 7 : 57 p . m .
PUBLIC HEARIN (J0 CONSIDERATION OF SITE PLAN APPROVAL FOR A PROPOSED
TENNIS LOUNGE , PROPOSED TO CONSIST OF A GREENHOUSE ADDITION TO AN
EXISTING TENNIS COURT WAITING AREA , IN A SPECIAL LAND USE DISTRICT AT
LA TOURELLE , 1150 DANBY ROAD , TOWN OF ITHACA TAX PARCEL NO . 6 - 36 - 1 - 4 . 2 .
WALTER J . WIGGINS , APPLICANT .
Chairman May - declared the Public Hearing in the above - noted matter
duly opened at 7 : 58 p . m . and read aloud from the Notice of Public
Hearings as posted and published and as noted above .
Attorney Stephen Flash , an Attorney associated with Wiggins and
Masson , approached the Board and stated that he was before the Board on
behalf of Mr „ Wiggins and La Tourelle , Attorney Flash introduced
Richard Shriner , engineer for the project , to the Board members .
Attorney Flash stated that the site plan was before the Board , and
if there were any questions he indicated that the Board should feel
® free to ask .
Chairman May asked , in the Town Board resolution , was the
greenhouse or the changing room permitted ? Ms . Beeners stated that it
was clarified at the Town Board that the site plan amendments or
changes that were reviewed by the Planning Board and sent on to the
Town Board diol not include the expanded changing area , but did include
such things as the Tennis Bubble and the dining modification .
Chairman May noted that this was a Public Hearing and asked if
anyone present wished to speak . No one spoke . Chairman May closed the
Public Hearing at 8 : 01 p . m . and brought the matter back to the Board
for discussion .
Virginia Langhans wondered if the changing room was already there ,
with Attorney Flash answering , yes . Ms . Langhans wondered if she were
correct in assuming that the greenhouse was not on the plans , with Ms .
Beeners responding , yes .
Attorney Flash explained that the purpose of the greenhouse was to
provide an area of 13 ' X18 ' to attach to a door that leads into and
right onto the tennis courts , adding that , otherwise , people waiting to
play tennis have to wait in their cars .
At this point , Attorney Flash distributed photographs of the
structure to members of the Board . Mr . Shriner stated that it is a
free - standing structure and a wall would be incorporated where the
revolving door is located , adding that it is one of the Four Seasons
greenhouses .
Planning Board. - 5 - December 6 , 1988
® Chairman May wondered if this would have to go back to the Town
Board , with Town Attorney Barney responding that the Local Law that was
adopted authorizes , among other things , tennis courts enclosed or
otherwise swimming pools , cabanas or other similar accessory structures
related to tennis courts and swimming . Attorney Barney stated that the
proposed use would qualify . Attorney Barney wondered , in the site
plan , were a couple of parking spaces being deleted ? Attorney Flash
responded that, a couple of not very formal parking places , which are in
a gravel area , may be deleted . Attorney Barney stated that at the last
Planning Board meeting there was a recommendation that 38 additional
parking spaces be provided . Mr . Shriner stated that Mr . Wiggins has
made provisions for providing the additional parking . Mr . Shriner
offered that Mr . Wiggins was to put in additional parking where the
quonset -hut had sat , noting that , since the original site plan , the
quonset but has been removed , and the area has been filled in , but the
area is not , as yet , asphalt , adding that one can still park there .
Attorney Barney asked that the intentions be translated into a date .
Mr . Shriner , speaking on Mr . Wiggins ' behalf , stated that he would be
willing to complete and pave the 38 - space expanded parking for
additional development by June 1 , 1989 .
There appearing to be no further discussion or comments from the
Board , Chairman _ May asked if anyone were prepared to offer a motion .
MOTION by Mrs . Carolyn Grigorov , seconded by Mr . James Baker :
WHEREAS :
1 . This action is the Consideration of Site Plan Approval for a
proposed tennis lounge , proposed to consist of a greenhouse
addition to an existing tennis court waiting area , in a Special
Land Use District at La Tourelle , 1150 Danby Road , Town of Ithaca
Tax Parcel No . 6 - 36 - 1 - 4 . 2 .
2 . This is Ein Unlisted action for which the Planning Board has been
legislatively determined to act as Lead Agency for environmental
review .
3 . The Town Planner has recommended that a negative determination of
environmental significance be made for the proposed action .
THEREFORE , IT IS RESOLVED :
That the Planning Board make and hereby does make a negative
determination of environmental significance for the action as proposed .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote .
Aye - May , Baker , Grigorov , Langhans , Kenerson , Miller .
Nay - None .
Abstain - Klein .
® The MOTION was declared to be carried .
Planning Board - 6 - December 6 , 1988
® MOTION by Mr . Robert Miller , seconded by Mrs . Virginia Langhans :
WHEREAS :
1 . This action is the Consideration of Site Plan Approval for a
proposed tennis lounge , proposed to consist of a greenhouse
addition to an existing tennis court waiting area , in a Special
Land Use District at La Tourelle , 1150 Danby Road , Town of Ithaca
Tax Parcel No . 6 - 36 - 1 - 4 . 2 .
2 . This is an Unlisted action for which the Planning Board , acting as
Lead Agency for environmental review , has , on December 6 , 1988 ,
made a negative determination of environmental significance .
3 . The Planning Board , at Public Hearing on December 6 , 1988 , has
reviewed the revised site plan , floor plans , and other application
submissions .
THEREFORE , IT IS RESOLVED :
That the Planning Board grant and hereby does grant Site Plan
Approval for the addition as proposed , conditional upon :
1 . Approval of the proposed well and septic system by the Tompkins
County Health Department ,
2 . Completion of the landscaping as shown on the revised site plan
reviewed by the Planning Board July 5 , 1988 , by June 1 , 1989 ,
3 . Completion ( including paving ) of the 38 - space expanded parking for
additional development , as shown on the aforesaid site plan , by
June 1 , 1989 .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote .
Aye - May , Baker , Grigorov , Langhans , Kenerson , Miller .
Nay - None .
Abstain - Klein .
The MOTIO}N was declared to be carried .
Chairman May declared the matter of the La Tourelle Tennis
Lounge / Greenhouse Addition duly closed at 8 : 14 p . m .
DISCUSSION : CONSIDERATION OF SUBDIVISION APPROVAL FOR THE PROPOSED
SUBDIVISION OF A 15 , 500 SQ . FT . LOT FROM TOWN OF ITHACA TAX PARCEL NO ,
6 - 58 - 1 - 8 , LOCATED AT 1345 SLATERVILLE ROAD AND CONTAINING AN EXISTING
DWELLING , AND FURTHER , CONSIDERATION OF SUBDIVISION APPROVAL FOR THE
PROPOSED CLUSTERED SUBDIVISION OF A PORTION OF TOWN OF ITHACA TAX
PARCEL N0 , 6 - 5) 8 - 1 - 8 AND OF TOWN OF ITHACA TAX PARCELS NO . 6 - 58 - 1 - 7 ,
- 10 . 21 AND - 11 INTO SIX LOTS OF 22 , 050 SQ . FT . TO 87 , 400 SQ . FT . , EACH
WITH ACCESS TO SLATERVILLE ROAD . FRANCIS J . PAOANGELI , APPLICANT .
Planning Board - 7 - December 6 , 1988
Chairman May opened the discussion on the above - noted matter at
8 .15 p . m . and read aloud from the Agenda as noted above .
Chairman May announced that the Public Hearing would have to be
adjourned , but: would open the issue up for discussion , explaining that
inadvertently none of the neighbors were notified that live across the
street , although the neighbors were notified on one side of the street .
Chairman May :sated that the Board does not have a legal requirment to
mail a notice that is in the publications , but commented that he did
not believe that half the neighbors could be notified and not the-
other half .
Mr . David Herrick of T . G . Miller Engineers approached the Board
and stated that he has been working with Francis Paoangeli on the six
acre subdivision submitted tonight .
Mr . Herrick offered that the site comprises four tax map parcels
that Mr . Paoa.ngeli had purchased from two separate owners earlier in
the year . Mr . Herrick stated that the plan for the site is to develop
one large two acre parcel , and in addition , develop five 1 / 2 acre
parcels , all of which are in excess of the R- 15 zoning requirements .
Mr . Herrick offered that a conventional plat had been prepared , which
has been submitted to the Board , noting , it is indicated on that plat
that nine R- 15 lots could be developed on the site , in addition to
providing the required open space under zoning regulations . Mr .
® Herrick stated that , in lieu of the nine , the developer would like to
propose that the six be considered for approval .
Continuing , Mr . Herrick offered that , - with respect to the
development of the five 1 / 2 acre lots , the developer would like to
propose that they be considered a cluster proposal , such that anyone
who purchases the property may have the option of building a side by
side equal square footage duplex . Mr . Herrick stated that the
developer is not suggesting that all of the lots would turn out that
way , they may all be single family . Mr . Herrick stated that there is
an interest , however , in developing one of the lots for an equal square
footage side by side duplex . Mr . Herrick said that , that the unit
density for the site is much less than could be provided under
conventional :Dubdivision . Mr . Herrick commented that the developer
would be installing all the utilities on the site , and would include
the water and. sewer mains , and added that the sewer main , at the
present time , runs behind all the properties on the west side of
Slaterville Road , adding that the developer will be able to tie into
that , and serve the homes , with the exception of Lot # 4 by gravity .
Mr . Herrick offered that Lot # 4 would probably require the installation
of a grinder pump . Mr . Herrick noted that the water is available at
Slaterville Road and the pressure would probably run from 125 psi to
137 psi , adding that the sewer main would be approximately 560 feet .
Mr . Herrick stated that he had met and discussed the plans with Town
Engineer Robert Flumerfelt , adding that the plans were found to be
adequate . Mr . Herrick offered that the short cul de sac that would
® serve the six lots is 525 feet in length . Mr . Herrick stated that the
New York State Department of Transportation officials suggested that
the intersection with Slaterville Road be located as far as possible
Planning Board - 8 - December 6 , 1988
from the existing Honness Lane intersection . Mr . Herrick stated that
he had discussed the proposed street access with DOT and they have
given their blessing to the project , contingent upon approval from the
Town of Ithaca . Mr . Herrick stated that the developer is also looking
at the possibility of providing a paved cul de sac , as opposed to the
standard double surface treatment that the Town requires , and also to
provide concrete gutters in lieu of the open roadside ditches . Mr .
Herrick remarked that street grades would run from 4 - 1 / 2o near the
intersection with Slaterville Road to 8 % , and then 1 / 2 % at the bottom
of the cul de sac . Mr . Herrick noted that the diameter of the proposed
cul de sac is 100 feet , with the pavement section being 80 feet in
diameter .
At this point , in reviewing the site drainage , Mr . Herrick stated
that , presently , DOT has a 42 - inch culvert that comes under Slaterville
Road , and dumps onto the site , and added that it flows west across the
developer ' s parcel , ends up running to the adjoining owner to the west ,
which is the Sweet property , then continues on down to Six Mile Creek .
Mr . Herrick said that it is proposed to clean up the existing drainage
problem by installing an underground 42 - inch storm drain , which would
also tie in the catch basins on the street . Mr . Herrick stated that he
felt some typE! of energy dissipator that would slow the water down as
it exits the developer ' s property is needed , adding , an outlet
structure for the storm water piping would be constructed to reduce
run - off velocity prior to discharge back into the original drainage
® channel .
Mr . Herrick mentioned open space , as shown on the conventional
plat , an area of roughly 1 / 2 acre has been provided , noting , in lieu of
that with the proposed subdivision , the developer would like to provide
to the Town a 15 - foot wide right - of -way , or strip of property , from
Slaterville Road to the southwest corner of the site , to serve as . a
pedestrian walkway for the greater neighborhood . Mr . Herrick offered
that the proposed walkway would provide a long sought connection
between the East Ithaca Recreation Way , a designated Circle Greenway
trail , and the Circle Greenway trails within the Six Mile Creek
Wildflower Preserve . Mr . Herrick stated that , in addition to providing
that strip the developer has also agreed to grade and construct ,
concurrently with the site work , the segment of gravel walkway which
would border proposed lots # 3 and # 4 .
Virginia Langhans wondered who owned the property to the west ,
with Mr . Herrick answering , that is owned by Mr . Sweet .
Carolyn G:rigorov wondered about the gorge . Mr . Herrick responded
that the gorge is to the west and is quite a hike from the edge of the
Sweet and Paoarngeli property . Ms . Grigorov asked about the path . Mr .
Herrick responded that there is sort of an ad hoc path that runs across
the Sweet property , and noted that it is a well defined trail that
somebody is maintaining . Ms . Beeners stated that the trail is actually
mapped on the Circle Greenway trail system , commenting , there has
® always been an informal designation for it , or use of it . Ms . Beeners
said that the Assistant .,Town Planner , George Frantz , spoke with the
head of the Circle Greenway Committee , Elizabeth Mulholland , and there
Planning Board - 9 - December 6 , 1988
were no negative reactions on her part . Virginia Langhans wondered if
the Sweets were in agreement with the trails . Mr . Frantz stated that
Ms . Mulholland ' s response to the proposal of the connecting trail was
that she was very enthusiastic about it . Mr . Frantz stated that the
trail has been something that the Circle Greenway Committee has been
seeking for quite awhile . Chairman May offered that in the original
proposal Circle Greenway wanted to make a parking lot . Ms . Grigorov
mentioned that: if the Sweets sold their land , then the buyer could
close down the trail . Mr . Frantz commented that , according to Ms .
Mulholland , the Sweets already allow use of the trail . Ms . Beeners
offered that , in working with Circle Greenway , the appropriate
easements over the Sweet property could be accomplished within a year .
Ms . Langhans stated that the Sweets may not want something permanent .
Mr . Frantz , ill response to Ms . Langhans comment , stated that he did
bring up that issue with Ms . Mulholland , noting , if this were to be
done for Circle Greenway , then there should be some sort of permanent
easement across the land .
Chairman May noted that this was a Public Hearing and asked if
there were anyone from the public who had any comments or questions .
John Whitcomb of 233 Troy Road wondered about the Subdivision
Regulations , and if the proposal really qualifies for consideration as
a cluster . Mr . Whitcomb stated that his understanding of intent of
cluster regulations is that one takes a parcel and figures out how many
® lots could be put there , and confines those lots in a small area of the
parcel , and dedicate the rest as natural area or green space . Ms .
Beeners stated that the only reason the project is taking a clustered
approach is because of the side by side duplex with a common entrance ,
and noted that. there are proposed deed restrictions that would try to
place some design control on that .
Virginia Langhans wondered if the lots were going to be sold to
people , with Mr . Herrick responding that the subdivision is simply for
the development of lots .
Mr . Paoangeli approached the Board and stated that he did not plan
to build homes for people , adding , the two - acre parcel is where he
intends to live .
At this point , Mr . Paoangeli wondered about the flaw in the
mailing of the Public Hearing Notice . Mr . Paolangeli wondered if the
issue could be voted on this evening , or was it necessary to notify the
other neighbors . Attorney Barney responded that , from a legal
standpoint it is not necessary to notify anybody , other than by
publishing the notice in the newspaper . Attorney Barney commented that
as a practical matter it has been a policy over the years that the Town
has generally notified neighbors immediately adjacent to an area that
is being considered . Attorney Barney offered that the notice did go
out , but apparently only went out to the people on the south side of
Slaterville Road . Attorney Barney stated that , legally , there is no
® impediment , the Board could choose to vote , but as a matter of policy ,
and historically , the Board has wanted to give everyone an opportunity
to be heard .
Planning Board. - 10 - December 6 , 1988
® Mr . Paoangeli stated that he has notified and talked with several
of the neighbors . Mr . Paoangeli offered that one of the neighbors was
Mr . and Mrs . McMinn , Mr . Paoangeli stated , for the record , there is a
discrepancy bE! tween the survey the McMin ns have on their property and
the survey that he has on the property , adding that he has met with
them and agreed to make adjustments and come up with a boundary
agreement . Mr . Paoangeli noted that that was the western boundary ,
adding that one survey shows 8 . 9 feet , and his survey shows 3 . 6 feet .
At this point , Attorney Barney noted for the record that his
office represents Mr . Paoangeli , generally , but was not representing
him in the application that was before the Board tonight . Attorney
Barney also noted that his office represented the seller of the
property to Mr . Paoangeli , noting , the seller no longer has any
interest in the property .
William McMinn of 1351 Slaterville Road spoke from the floor and
stated that he and Mr . Paoangeli can work out the boundary agreement
without any difficulty . Mr . McMinn asked about the Circle Greenway ,
the walkway , the pathway , and primarily the issue of parking , adding ,
if it is used by the local people there is no problem , but if it is
used by the City of Ithaca there is going to be parking on Slaterville
Road because there would be no parking . Ms . Beeners responded that it
might be desirable or necessary to put " No Parking " signs on Winner ' s
Circle itself , adding , the signage that might indicate the Circle
® Greenway route would probably be something that was a small blaze right
at the trail , and not up on Slaterville Road . Ms . Beeners stated that
the enforcement mechanism would be there for the residents of Winner ' s
Circle to call the Sheriff . Chairman May stated that some kind of
provision has to be made for parking . Ms . Beeners stated that a short
distance down the road , although not directly connected , the Grandview
Park site will. have about eight or nine parking spaces , noting , Circle
Greenway users have generally used the Hillside Alliance Church
parking , which. is where the Town is trying to obtain access through to
the Grandview Park parking , on an informal basis , to access the
reservoir . Mr . Frantz wondered if there were a problem in that the
path would become more than a neighborhood path . Chairman May
answered , yes , in that particular location .
There appearing to be no one else from the public who wished to
speak to this matter , Chairman May adjourned the Public Hearing at 8 : 46
p . m . and brought the matter back to the Board for discussion .
At this point , the Board held a discussion regarding cluster
development .
Chairman May noted that , basically , this matter is the same thing
that was done at Grandview .
Mr . Herrick responded that the only exception would be that the
unit would not appear as a large two - family structure , it would be
® simple with a single family appearance . Chairman May remarked that if
two homes are tied together there would be two single family homes .
Mr . Herrick offered that he had expressed an interest to Mr . Paolangeli
Planning Board - 11 - December 6 , 1988
in the purcha :De of the proposed side by side duplex on Lot # 1 simply
for economic reasons , adding that he could live in one and rent out the
other side . Mr . Herrick stated that the two acre site would be
retained by Mr . Paolangeli for his own home .
Robert Miller inquired about affordable housing . Mr . Herrick
responded that the two units would be in the range of $ 125 , 000 . 00 -
$ 1501000 . 00 .
David Klein commented that he had read in the proposed
restrictions that each unit is supposed to have its own garage . Mr .
Paolangeli agreed with Mr . Klein . Mr . Paolangeli noted that there
would be one garage for each unit , but would only be constructed on one
side of the building . Mr . Herrick offered that there is also a
restriction that all buildings are to be approved by Mr . Paolangeli ,
Chairman May stated that he was not sure that the Board could
grant cluster subdivision to subdivision lots . Ms . Beeners stated that
it does meet -the five - acre minimum requirement , adding that this is a
similar type of situation of what will happen on some other detached
lot types of cluster developments . David Klein offered that he thought
what happened at Grandview was that the Board was given certain
information on so many housing types , and certain restrictions were put
on them , but felt there were not enough restrictions placed on them ,
obviously , and things kind of slipped by , commenting that he suspected
® most of the Board felt sorry about that . Continuing , Mr . Klein noted
that in terms of a cluster , the kind of restrictions that are proposed
here would all have to be subject to Board approval , and the
development looked at in total , as opposed to individual areas . Mr .
Klein commented that he thought some of the things the developer was
proposing to do were good , e . g . , the construction of the road is an
improvement , paved driveways , and adequate off - street parking . Mr .
Klein added that he felt the design character of the houses and the
landscape treatment would really have to be totally developed to
approve the project as a cluster . Attorney Barney stated that it could
be approved as a cluster and denominate certain lots as being cluster ,
where it is permitted to have attached units , then reserve the right to
review as each lot is to be developed . Attorney Barney noted that if
it is cluster there is considerably more discretion on the types of
things that the Board can look it than on a conventional subdivision ,
particularly the exterior characteristics of the building , etc . Ms .
Langhans commented that she felt it was getting away from the idea of
the original cluster theory development . Ms . Beeners offered that it
was a little hard to cluster any further on this parcel , because of its
shape and its size . Chairman May stated that , perhaps , this is a
property that should not be clustered , but just a conventional
subdivision . David Klein stated that he felt there was some advantage
in accepting it as a cluster , and put it in at a slightly lower
density , and have more control over it .
Ms . Langhans wondered if - the developer , in the foreseeable future ,
could see that. each one of the lots would be a duplex . Mr . Herrick
answered , no . Mr . Frantz noted that , as mentioned in the environmental
review , there was a trend toward single family detached housing and
Planning Board - 12 - December 6 , 1988
® away from attached housing . Mr . Frantz offered that about 12 % of the
homes in the Town are two - family homes . Carolyn Grigorov stated that
she liked the idea of affordable housing . Ms . Langhans mentioned that
the proposed duplex is at the entrance of the development , and
commented that. someone may not want to construct a $ 200 , 000 . 000 home in
the back . Mr . Herrick stated that he had every intention of making the
duplex beneficial to the development . Mr . Herrick asked if there would
be the possibility of looking at one lot for consideration for a duplex
with conventional housing on the remainder of the subdivision . Ms .
Beeners stated. that , at this point , it does not make sense to recommend
that certain of these lots be designated single family or conventional
lots and others cluster . Mr . Herrick noted that the lot size was
22 , 000 sq . ft .
Chairman May inquired as to how the Board felt about it remaining
as cluster with a requirement that any side by side had to come back to
the Board for approval , with the understanding that it might not be
approved . Mr . Herrick responded that that was fine .
Attorney Barney noted that it was suggested to limit it to one
lot . Attorney Barney stated that according to the Cluster Regulations
one can mix conventional and cluster . Chairman May responded that he
did not have any problem with that , and wondered how the rest of the
Board felt . :David Klein commented that he felt that was the better
approach .
® Ms . Langhans noted that a lot of fill was brought in , and wondered
how sturdy the fill was going to be . Mr . Paolangeli stated that the
fill was put in and compacted well .
At this time , Mr . Frantz referred to a letter addressed to the
Town of Ithaca Planning Board , from Mr / Mrs Robert D . Sweet , dated
December 5 , 1988 . [ Letter attached hereto as Exhibit 1 . ]
There appearing to be no further discussion , Chairman May asked if
anyone were prepared to make a motion .
MOTION by Virginia Langhans , seconded by Robert Miller :
RESOLVED , by the Town of Ithaca Planning Board , that the Public
Hearing in the matter of the Francis J . Paolangeli Subdivision Approval
be and hereby is adjourned until January 3 , 1989 at 7 : 30 p . m . , with the
understanding that the Public Hearing Notice would be republished and
notices sent to the appropriate persons .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote .
Aye - May , Baker , Grigorov , Langhans , Miller , Klein , Kenerson .
Nay - None .
Chairman May declared the Francis J . Paolangeli Subdivision
Approval matter duly adjourned at 9 : 15 p . m .
Planning Board. - 13 - December 6 , 1988
® SKETCH PLAN REVIEW OF PROPOSED " INDIAN CREEK RETIREMENT COMMUNITY " ,
PROPOSED TO CONSIST OF A 140 - UNIT CLUSTERED SUBDIVISION AND PROPOSED TO
BE LOCATED ON A PORTION OF TOWN OF ITHACA TAX PARCEL NO . 6 - 24 - 1 - 23 WITH
ACCESS ONTO TRUMANSBURG ROAD , AND FURTHER , OF PROPOSED 12 -LOT
CONVENTIONAL SUBDIVISION , PROPOSED TO BE LOCATED ON TOWN OF ITHACA TAX
PARCEL NO , 6 - 24 - 1 - 32 AND ON A PORTION OF TOWN OF ITHACA TAX PARCEL NO .
6 - 24 - 1 - 23 WITH ACCESS ONTO HAYTS ROAD . CMH ASSOCIATES , OWNER ; HOLT
ARCHITECTS , APPLICANT .
Chairman May opened the discussion on the above - noted matter at
9 : 16 p . m . and read aloud from the Agenda as noted above .
Mr . Scott: Lucas of CMH Associates approached the Board and stated
that HOLT Architects have been working with the professional staff at
the Town of Ithaca .
At this point , Mr . Lucas explained to the Board the concept of
what is involved with the project , and what CMH Associates would like
to accomplish .
Mr . Lucas stated that the site is an 80 - acre site off Trumansburg
Road just beyond the Tompkins Community Hospital , Mr . Lucas offered
that housing is proposed for persons of retirement age , which would be
people 55 years and older . Mr . Lucas stated that it is proposed to
build some apartment style units and some duplex units . Mr . Lucas
® noted that , in addition to building the units themselves , CMH has been
working very closely with Tompkins Community Hospital to provide a
package of services for residents of the units . Mr . Lucas commented
that there were a couple of objectives - one was to make the best use
of the site, both from an aesthetic standpoint and from an
environmental standpoint , adding , the goal was to keep as much as
possible of the site undeveloped and open green space . Mr . Lucas
offered that 80 of the proposed units would be apartment - style units .
Mr . Lucas remarked that the other goal CMH had was to provide an
alternative housing option for people of retirement age , an option
other than living in the traditional existing dwellings that many
people presently occupy . Mr . Lucas offered that the units are being
designed with the intent to have the units accessible for people who
may not have any mobility problems when they move in , but can be
accommodated later on , e . g . , the doorways will be wider , hard surfaces
on the floors , not having thresholds to make it easier for people with
canes , walkers , or wheelchairs to move around . Mr . Lucas said that
with respect to the service package , which the Hospital in all
likelihood will provide , and which the Hospital trustees have reviewed ,
CMH is working with the Hospital Administrator Bonnie Howell to
formalize the details . Mr . Lucas offered that things would be included
such as , a meal a day , 24 - hour on - site security , grounds maintenance ,
building maintenance , snow and trash removal , mini - van available for
transportation , a possibility of nursing consultation - not direct
care , because CMH does not see this , necessarily , as dwellings for
people who are! ill and need a great deal of nursing care . Mr . Lucas
® stated that nursing consultation would provide things that often
physicians in their practice and in their office overlook . Mr . Lucas
noted that one of the reasons CMH selected this particular location
Planning Board - 14 - December 6 , 1988
was , in fact , its proximity to the Hospital . Mr . Lucas stated that the
project is not: a nursing home . Mr . Lucas stated that the selected site
is set well back from Trumansburg Road about 1500 feet . Mr . Lucas
stated that there will be a pond on the site to control the rain water
run - off , but will also be an attractive amenity . Mr . Lucas said that
it is expected. that a substantial portion of acreage would be deeded or
conveyed to the Town as a park . Mr . Lucas commented that the project
would consist of a mixture of apartment - style units , all of which will
be two - bedroom , and some duplex - style units which will also be
two -bedroom units . Mr . Lucas stated that he felt the project was a low
impact project , as there will not be a substantial number of new
children brought into the school system , and the project will not
generate new traffic , the people residing there are retired . Mr . Lucas
stated that there is a creek on the property that separates it into two
parcels , and added that the parcels are very very different in
topography . Mr . Lucas said that the property on Hayts Road , which is
about 12 - 15 acres , is physically separated from the rest of the
property , commenting , CMH would like to simply keep that in the
Agricultural zone , and subdivide it as lots , adding that he [ Mr . Lucas ]
would like to build his own home on one of the lots . Mr . Lucas noted
that the remaining lots would eventually be developed as single family
home lots .
Chairman May wondered if the , retirement community would be all
rental . Mr . Lucas responded that the retirement community would be all
owned by individuals , either as a condominium or co - operative . Mr .
Lucas stated that the experience in other communties , where retirement
communities hcLve been built , has been somewhat spotty , as many were
originally developed by religious or philanthropic organizations where
the residents made substantial lump sum payments upon their entry into
the communities in return for the services , and the rights to live in
the units . Mr . Lucas offered that , in a number of instances , the
developer made: bad actuarial decisions or acted on bad data , became
insolvent and the residents not only were left without a place to live ,
they also lost. the monies that they had invested . Mr . Lucas stated
that CMH has similar projects underway in New Hampshire , adding , there
is new legislation just enacted in New Hampshire governing the above
issue . Mr . Lucas stated that his view was that ownership provides much
greater safety , and in comparison to rentals , it gives the people much .
more control and predictability over their future costs . Mr . Lucas
stated that there were a number of retirement communities that are
based strictly on rentals and the unfortunate experience is that the
rental and- service fees increase dramatically over time and people wind
up being displaced when they are unable to keep up with the escalating
fees .
At this point , Peter Trowbridge , Architect , approached the Board
and stated that the site was quite near Woolf Lane . Mr . Trowbridge
commented that there are really two projects , even though it is one
contiguous parcel , and should be considered as separate projects . Mr .
Trowbridge stated that , currently , there are no public services on
® Hayts Road in terms of water and sewer .
Planning Board - 15 - December 6 , 1988
® Indicating on map , Mr . Trowbridge noted that " this " piece is
currently Agriculture zoned , would remain so , and would have acre plus
lots , 12 of those on 19 acres with an associated open space natural
area that would contain the entire Indian Creek corridor up to the rim .
Mr . Lucas said that all of the lots would be well and septic . Mr .
Lucas stated that the larger project is approximately 70 acres , adding ,
the developer is looking at a zoning amendment for a Special Land Use
District ,
Board Member Robert Miller stated that he thought the project
looked good .
Virginia Langhans asked about nursing facilities . Mr . Lucas
responded that there would be a basic set of services , and nursing
consultation . Mr . Lucas noted that the developed plan includes about
6000 square feet for a community building .
David Klein commented that he had attended a presentation at
Cornell regarding the Savage Farm development , noting , initially ,
Cornell wanted to develop that as entirely a retirement community , but
a statement was made at the meeting that a marketing study was done , at
which time Cornell decided to cut the retirement part down to about 80
units . Mr . Klein commented that this project is coming in with 140
units . Mr . Klein wondered about the discrepancy . Mr . Lucas responded
that , clearly , different judgements were made about the market . Mr .
® Lucas stated that he had talked with John Majeroni about the Savage
Farm project , commenting that he [ Mr . Lucas ] felt that Cornell
envisions something somewhat more grandiose and up - scale than what CMH
is interested in doing .
Mr . Lucas offered that some of the apartment - style units would be
available for under $ 100 , 000 . 00 , and commented that the duplex units
would be a little more . Mr . Lucas noted that the project is not low
income housing .
Robert Kenerson wondered about the style of the houses . Mr . Lucas
responded that the duplex units would be one - story . Ms . Langhans
wondered about garages for the units , with Mr . Lucas answering that the
duplexes would have one - car garages . Mr . Trowbridge offered that 100
parking spaces would be provided for the 80 units and approximately a
total of 134 spaces associated with the 80 units .
Chairman May wondered if there would be covenants limiting the
project to an age restriction . Mr . Lucas answered , yes , probably age
55 . Mr . Kener ;son wondered about the timetable for building . Mr . Lucas
responded that it would probably be 3 - 5 years .
At this point , Chairman May , along with the Board members ,
recommended to Mr . Lucas that CMH proceed with their concept as shown
in their plans .
® Mr . Luca; stated that , as a point of information , he has an
additional 80 acres of the Babcock property under option .
Planning Board - 16 - December 6 , 1988
® Chairman May asked if there were any other comments . There being
none , Chairman May declared the matter of the " Indian Creek Retirement
Community " Development Sketch Plan Review duly closed at 10 : 23 p . m .
PUBLIC HEARING : CONSIDERATION OF A RECOMMENDATION TO THE TOWN BOARD
WITH RESPECT TO CERTAIN CLARIFYING AMENDMENTS TO THE TOWN OF ITHACA
ZONING ORDINANCE .
Chairman May declared the Public Hearing in the above - noted matter
duly opened at 10 : 24 p . m . and read aloud from the Notice of Public
Hearings as posted and published and as noted above .
Chairman May noted that this was a. Public Hearing and asked if
anyone present. wished to speak . No one spoke . Chairman May closed the
Public Hearing at 10 : 25 p . m . and brought the matter back to the Board
for discussion .
At this time , discussion ensued concerning the amendments to the
Zoning Ordinance , and there was a discussion , at length , regarding the
proposed height amendment .
There appearing to be no further discussion , Chairman May asked if
anyone were prepared to make a motion .
MOTION by Mrs . Virginia Langhans , seconded by Mr . Robert Kenerson :
® RESOLVED , that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board recommend and
hereby does recommend to the Town Board that a negative determination
of environmental significance be made with respect to the six proposed
Local Laws , marked " annotated copy for 12 / 6 / 88 " , " A " through " F " ,
setting forth certain clarifying amendments to the Town of Ithaca
Zoning Ordinance , and
FURTHER RESOLVED , that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board recommend
and hereby does recommend to the Town Board the adoption of the six
Local Laws , marked " annotated copy for 12 / 6 / 88 " , " A " through " F " ,
setting forth certain clarifying amendments to the Town of Ithaca
Zoning Ordinance .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote .
Aye - May , Baker , Grigorov , Langhans , Klein , Kenerson , Miller .
Nay - None .
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously .
Chairman :May declared the matter of a Recommendation to the Town
Board with respect to certain clarifying Amendments to the Zoning
Ordinance duly closed at 11 : 15 p . m .
APPROVAL OF MINUTES - MAY 17 , 1988
MOTION by Robert Kenerson , seconded by Robert Miller :
Planning Board - 17 - December 6 , 1988
® RESOLVED , that the Minutes of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board
Meeting of May 17 , 1988 , be and hereby are approved as written .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote .
Aye - May , Baker , Grigorov , Langhans , Klein , Kenerson , Miller .
Nay - None .
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously .
AGENDA ITEM : CONSIDERATION OF A RECOMMENDATION TO THE TOWN BOARD WITH
RESPECT TO THE APPOINTMENT OF THE PLANNING BOARD CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR
FOR THE YEAR 1989 .
MOTION by Mrs . Carolyn Grigorov , seconded by Mr . James Baker :
RESOLVED , that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board recommend and
hereby does recommend to the Town Board the re - appointment of Mr .
Montgomery May as Chairman of the Planning Board for the year 1989 .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote .
Aye - May , Baker , Grigorov , Langhans , Klein , Kenerson , Miller .
Nay - None .
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously .
MOTION by Mr . Montgomery May , seconded by Mrs . Virginia Langhans :
RESOLVED , that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board recommend and
hereby does recommend to the Town Board the re - appointment of Mrs .
Carolyn Grigorov as Vice Chairman of the Planning Board for the year
1989 .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote .
Aye - May , Baker , Grigorov , Langhans , Klein , Kenerson , Miller .
Nay - None .
The MOTIO14 was declared to be carried unanimously .
At this point , Carolyn Grigorov congratulated the Town Planner ,
Susan Beeners , for securing the grant for the bikeway .
Attorney Barney announced to the Board members that he had
received a copy of a letter from Attorney Robert Clune concerning the
Monkemeyer issue . The Board held a brief discussion on the matter .
PLANNING BOARD VACANCY
Virginia :Langhans mentioned that the Board would have to think
about a replacement for the Planning Board seat being vacated by David
Klein .
Planning Board - 18 - December 6 , 1988
ADJOURNMENT
Upon Motion , Chairman May declared the December 6 , 1988 , meeting
of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board duly adjourned at 11 : 46 p . m .
Respectfully submitted ,
Mary Bryant , Recording Secretary ,
Nancy M . Fuller , Secretary ,
Town of Ithaca Planning Board .
-
® DATE : December 5 , 1988 DEC 6 1988
T0 : Town of Ithaca Planning Board
RE : Development of 1345 Slaterville Road and adjoining parcels
by Paoangeli
FROM : Mr . dagAr� b t Dweet , 1401 - 1 / 2 Slaterville Road
Our property joins the development for about 200 ft on the side away from
the city and for its entire length on the downhill side . Thus we have
concerns regarding drainage , water containment and the density of living
units .
Every working day since early last summer there has been a proverbial
" beehive " of activity at the development site . Trucks carrying soil for
fill and gravel for roads average about 16 per hour . Bulldozers shape the
site and level the gravel on the road . Water is concentrated into a narrow
strip and erodes the soil on to our land . We mentioned the problem to Mr .
Paoangeli and he said he would take care of it . His solution was to put
several bales of straw at the bottom of the 500 ft slope . Of course this is
completely inadequate . Not only does the water from the land itself need to
be contained , but also that from a highway culvert . Prior to development
activity , this water dispensed over a wide area of old pasture and caused no
problems .
A second concern is housing density . How many living units will be on the
site? Will this be low density high value housing or will it in reality be
dormitories under a different name ?
We are sorry that we are scheduled out of town to another meeting and could
not be present personally .
RDS : kb
0
Exhibit 1
a -
THTHEIA t JOURN" AL '
d L TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING -
BOARD NOTICE OF PUBLIC
HEARINGS TUES. , DEC. 6, 1988
By direction of the Chairman '
of the Planning Board, NOTICE -
IS 1 IS HEREBY GIVEN, that Public:
TXJ . st-oz Hearings will be held by the 't
• Planning Board of the Town of
Ithaca on Tuesday, December ;
C6,6, 1988, in Town Hall, 126 East '
:__ . .. . : _. . . . 1xL^ C C :i . 7 � D:':+, d Seneca Street, Ithaca, NY at
the following time's and on the
following matters:
}Y. TCS16e* L j •, hkmC 0�r-i !wv &ni Cute LZC: 7:30 P. M. Consideration , ofi�
Subdivision Approval with re- ,"
spect to the proposed subdivi- '1
t,'�Lt bt Il �'•� .c:i._ -_ .__ ___ cion of two parcels of 402 'sq. '
ft. and 430 sq. ft. , respec.. <
d T= 1 -&AcA OL'f NAL .t 1bT1C M o '1.^ 10. aa � 1Jl.:s�ed _ ti l rom 12 Kay reed ,!
_ located� of 0 a t
p Tye ] � . �-. . _ _ __.. __. ..._ _ Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. ?' "
_ . ._ . -
-
6-71 - 1 -49. Barth d
e Applicants. Martha
. .-
Mapes, Ap lit s.
- - - LIZ Itht 'm JIJL3m BiC, = 02 ttii `, Da'�l^. E , G0. R �a.1 .J L ie L�DGIC� IS l tT'JG 7: 35 P. M. Consideration of :-
_ . . . . . . _ . - . _
Site
posed Plan
Tennis
foa pro }
I { _
posed toconsistof Lounge, reen-':{
1 I terms couse ao urttion to an wait ng area, inexisting
7
1 - 1 Special Land Use District at Lo
�- �J -``e � ..Y _�L_�-• •� — - - - --- - . .... . .. . --. .. .. . .—. Tourelle, 1150 Danby Road,
Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. wl
6-36- 1 -4. 2. Walter J. Wiggins,
- . . _. . . _ _.. .. . . . . .. . . - — . . ... . .. . . . .. . .. . ... Applicant.
7:40 P. M. Consideratin of Sub-
division
oval for the
• t , • „o tt, posed subdivision of a 15, 500 I _
tui . tit f ' S ^ '� _ :: c � �� O : Sc: D : _ .. . Wim 0 � >`
t • ' -'" " " ' -"-"" ' sq. ft. lot from Town of Ithaca � '
Tax Parcel No. 6-58- 1 -8, lo-
r O R f, toted at 1345 Slaterville Rood
ddi Q.f �. .Y '\ . _ ._. __ _. _ _ __ . _ . . . .. . . __ . _ . _. . _ _. . .. and containing on existing '
• dwelling, and further, Consid- I
erasion of Subdivision Appro. ;
_ J- �� - _- - • , . .. . . ... val for the proosed clustered .i
subdivision of a portion of
Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. I
L� � £
j': _ LV C r �. v .� JSe . t ", c _ `. 6-58- 1 -8 and of Town of Ithaca l
__ .__ , _ � . __ . . Tax Parcels No. 6-58- 1 -7, - '
10. 2, and - 11 into six lots of
22. 050 sq. ft. to 87, 400 sq. ft. ,
each with access to Slaterville i
Road. Francis J. Paoangeli,
Applicant.
8 :00 P. M. Consideration of a
. . . . .. .. .. . . ... . ... .. .. . . ..— _ _ .� .. . . � .._, Recommendation to the Town I
_
C tit• a; . Board with respect to certain
i clarifying amendments to the
JEAN FO ; IJ Town of Ithaca Zoning Ordi-
iNotary Public, State of New 1 Hance.
YCrC Said Planning Board will at
^ l said times and said place hear i
I \, O. 465441 O all persons in support of such
• matters or objections thereto.
Qualified in Tbmpkins County eF7 Persons may appear by agent n e
COMMISSIon expires May 31, 19 . . . or person .
son . ;
-- Jean H. Swartwood
Town Clerk i.
273- 1721 '
' December 1 , 1988 �
r
5/ � C3 '