HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB Minutes 1988-11-15 FILED
TOWN OF ITHACA
Date
•; TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD Clark
NOVEMBER 15 , 1988
The Town of Ithaca Planning Board met in regular session on
Tuesday , November 15 , 1988 , in Town Hall , 126 East Seneca Street ,
Ithaca , New York , at 7 : 30 p . m .
PRESENT : Chairman Montgomery May , James Baker , Carolyn Grigorov ,
Virginia Langhans , David Klein , William Lesser , Robert
Kenerson , Robert Miller , Robert R . Flumerfelt ( Town
Engineer ) , Susan C . Beeners ( Town Planner ) , George R . Frantz
(Assistant Town Planner ) , John C . Barney ( Town Attorney ) .
ALSO PRESENT : Evan Monkemeyer , Douglas Look , Robert O ' Brien , Karl
Niklas , Ed Cobb , Grace Chiang , Paul Jacobs , Myrtle &
John Whitcomb , Donald Henry , Joe Barrick , Walter
Barrick , Dan Bower , David Warden , Robert Hesson ,
Christopher McVoy , Margaret E . Smith , Lois Levitan ,
Sally Wessels , Robert Schmidt , Ian Tyndall , John Novarr ,
Donald Henry .
Chairman May declared the meeting duly opened at 7 : 30 p . m . and
accepted for the record the Clerk ' s Affidavit of Posting and
Publication of the Notice of Public Hearings in Town Hall and the
• Ithaca Journal on November 7 , 1988 , and November 10 , 1988 ,
respectively , together with the Clerk ' s Affidavit of Service by Mail of
said Notice upon the various neighbors of each of the properties under
discussion , as appropriate , upon both the Clerk and the Building
Commissioner of the City of Ithaca , upon the Tompkins County
Commissioner of Planning , and upon the applicants and / or agents , as
appropriate , on November 7 , 1988 .
Chairman May read the Fire Exit Regulations to those assembled , as
required by the New York State Department of State , Office of Fire
Prevention and Control .
NON -AGENDA ITEM
Andrew Frost distributed to each of the members of the Board a
copy of his October 1988 Report of Building / Zoning Activities .
At this time there was a discussion on the approval of minutes .
Chairman Montgomery May stated that , if anyone had a question as to a
finer point than might have been transcribed , the tapes of every
meeting are kept forever and ever , and are available should anyone want
them for review .
PUBLIC HEARING : CONSIDERATION OF FINAL SITE PLAN APPROVAL FOR THE
PROPOSED " DANBY ROAD HOUSING " PROJECT , PROPOSED TO BE LOCATED IN A
MULTIPLE RESIDENCE DISTRICT AT 1033 DANBY ROAD , TOWN OF ITHACA TAX
• PARCELS NO . 6 - 43 - 1 - 1 . 2 , - 2 . 2 , AND - 6 , WITH PRELIMINARY SITE PLAN
APPROVAL HAVING BEEN GRANTED , WITH CONDITIONS , BY THE PLANNING BOARD ON
SEPTEMBER 6 , 1988 . J . M . S . ITHACA REALTY , INC . , OWNER / APPLICANT .
• Planning Board - 2 - November 15 , 1988
• Chairman May declared the Public Hearing in the above -noted matter
duly opened at 7 : 36 p . m . and read aloud from the Notice of Public
Hearings as posted and published and as noted above .
Mr . O ' Brien , Architect for the project , addressed the Board and
appended maps to the bulletin board .
Mr . O ' Brien stated that the developer is back for Final Approval
for the project .
At this time , Mr . Ian Tyndall addressed the Board and stated that
since the last meeting the developer had done a little more in site
sub - surface exploration , adding that the rock was a little closer to
the surface than was anticipated . Mr . Tyndall offered that there are
two - story buildings at the front , and two - stories at the back , adding ,
more buildings were put in , and commenting that this was done by taking
the accommodation out of " here " [ indicating on map ] and replacing it
with more two - story buildings at the back of the site . Mr . Tyndall
stated that the visible side of the buildings would be cedar siding on
the outside , with wood windows , adding that it would be a low profile
kind of scheme . Mr . Tyndall stated that the extra parking area " here "
has been done away with , but the same number of parking spaces have
been maintained , which are the 450 spaces .
Carolyn Grigorov asked about the reduction in dimensions . Mr .
• Tyndall responded that the distance over " here " [ indicating ] is about
50 ' - 60 ' smaller than it was before , noting that the buildings and the
adjacent grading take up a little bit more room than the parking did .
Mr . Tyndall said that there is 75 ' to the back boundary " here " , 35 '
" here " , 65 ' " here " , and 80 ' " here " [ indicating ] .
William Lesser asked that the buildings which are 33 ' maximum
height be identified . Mr . Tyndall indicated where the closest are .
At this point , Mr . Tyndall addressed the nine conditions that were
attached to the Preliminary Site Plan Approval in September .
" 1 . The Planning Board is the Lead Agency in review of the
project . "
2 . " Approval of plans for water and sewer lines , including that
the developer give due consideration to provision for
possible future public sewer extensions to lands abutting the
property to the east , and final drainage and pond plans ,
including drainage maintenance for specified areas of rare
plants identified on the site plan , for approval by the Town
Engineer prior to Planning Board consideration of final site
plan approval . "
Mr . Tyndall stated that there is an 18 " sewer extension , and it
• can handle whatever is required , adding that it would be extended right
through " here " [ indicating ] . Mr . Tyndall stated that the developer is
proposing a 20 ' easement that would extend back into the adjacent
. Planning Board - 3 - November 15 , 1988
• property . Mr . Tyndall noted that drainage maintenance for specified
areas of rare plants has been developed with input from Robert Wesley ,
Karl Niklas , and Ed Cobb . Mr . Tyndall offered that the fence would be
4 feet in height , with wood posts .
3 . " Submission of a landscape plan and schedule noting proposed
plant species and sizes and the phasing of site restoration
and landscaping for final site plan approval . "
Mr . Tyndall stated that the developer views the building and
the landscape as being one thing , adding that within that there
are three kinds of zones of landscape . Mr . Tyndall commented
that the first one would be the conservation zone . Mr . Tyndall
noted that around the back of the .site , which does not need any
grading there are some scarlett maples , and noted that a second
conservation zone would continue all the way around " here "
[ indicating ] and back up to the adjacent properties . Mr . Tyndall
indicated that " this " area would need grading for the retention
base and the pathway . Mr . Tyndall noted that there is an area
within the development itself , and this is the area where the
grass would be cut . Mr . Tyndall stated that the existing
landscaping would be supplemented with new plantings . Mr . Tyndall
said that a landscape plan and planting schedule has been
developed with input from Robert Wesley , Karl Niklas , and Ed Cobb .
• 4 . " As part of final site plan approval , revision of the plan
for the access road to enlarge same so as to provide
adequate emergency access in the event of an accident or
partial blockage of the access road and adequate room for
turning lanes , such access road to be designed and
constructed into the site to specifications meeting the
approval of the Town Engineer . "
Mr . Tyndall stated that the proposal has been approved by the
NYSDOT , as well as by the Town Engineer , adding that there is now a
median in the middle with two 12 - foot lanes that are separated by
roughly a 20 - foot median , commenting that at the entrance there is a
24 - foot roadway width . Mr . Tyndall said that the turning radius is 40
feet .
5 . " Approval of the fire water service system by the Ithaca Fire
DE! partment prior to the issuance . of any building permits . "
Mr . Tyndall stated that the developer met with Deputy Fire Chief
Wilbur , and upon learning that the buildings would be fully
sprinklered , Deputy Fire Chief Wilbur gave his approval .
6 . " Approval of water and sewer systems design by the Tompkins
County Health Department prior to the issuance of any
building permits . "
• Mr . Tyndall noted that after more detailed plans have been
developed and prior to the issuance of any building permits , approval
will be obtained from the Tompkins County Health Department .
• 1
Planning Board - 4 - November 15 , 1988
7 . " Report from the developer prior to final site plan approval
on the progress toward an agreement between the developer and
Ithaca College on siting and development of a
pedestrian / bicycle connection between the project site and
the Ithaca College campus . "
Mr . Tyndall said that a report from the developer outlines
progress toward an agreement with Ithaca College on the development of
a pedestrian / bicycle connection .
8 . " Report from the developer prior to final site plan approval
on the progress toward 'an agreement by the developer to
permit public use of the proposed pedestrian / bicycle routes
on the site , and agreement to grant any easements that may in
the future be requested by the Town for pedestrian / bicycle
access from adjoining lands to the proposed routes on the
site , if there is mutual agreement on such use under terms
satisfactory to the developer , the Town of Ithaca , and Ithaca
College , "
Mr . Tyndall noted that a report from the developer outlines
progress toward an agreement with the Town of Ithaca permitting
proposed pedestrian / bicycle paths on the site , commenting that the only
concern J . M . S . Realty has is the liability for anyone other than the
tenant in the development .
• 9 . " The developer to provide a report prior to final site plan
approval as to the feasibility of providing bus or other
transportation services to the site . "
Mr . Tyndall stated that the developer has investigated this , both
with the College and Ithaca Transit , and added that , at this point , the
College is not interested in providing transportation from their site
to the project . Mr . Tyndall stated that Ithaca Transit felt , at this
point , they cannot expand their service .
Chairman May noted that this was a Public Hearing and asked if
there were anyone from the public who had any comments or questions .
Mr . Evan Monkemeyer spoke from the floor and asked if the 450
parking spaces were around the buildings . Indicating on map , Mr .
Tyndall staged that the first parking area is right " here " , and
additional parking is " here " between the buildings , and parking located
" here " and " here " . Mr . _ Novarr offered that this is not parallel
parking along the road , the road thickens out and people pull
perpendicular to the road and park off the road . Mr . Monkmeyer voiced
a concern ablaut a buffer zone or landscape plan behind the rear of the
houses that front on Route 96B , which is fine , however , for the
surrounding lands to the east and to the south there is no planned
buffer zone plantings that would insulate the project from the
surrounding :properties . Mr . Monkemeyer offered that he was acting as
• Agent for his father , Herbert Monkemeyer , who owns the land surrounding
those two areas . Mr . Monkemeyer felt that there should be some kind of
buffer zone that would isolate the density and the housing from ,
Planning Board - 5 - November 15 , 1988
essentially , R- 30 zone single - family lands to the east and south . Mr .
Tyndall responded that what was done was to retain what is presently
existing , which is scrub and some trees approximately 20 - 30 feet in
height . Mr . Monkemeyer stated that he was concerned with future values
of the properties surrounding the project .
Town Planner Susan Beeners , directing her question to Mr .
Monkemeyer , wondered what his recollection was of the composition of
the scrub vegetation that exists now . Ms . Beeners stated that she
recalled dogwoods , some small ash and oak coming up , but did not recall
evergreens . Mr . Monkemeyer suggested that the developer might plant a
scattering of evergreens , as an evergreen stays full and solid all
year . Mr . Tyndall stated that the developer does not want to do the
adjacent properties any damage . Mr . Monkemeyer stated that he was not
concerned with the height of the buildings , but was concerned with the
density . Mr . Monkemeyer wondered about a recreation area for the
students , with Mr . Tyndall answering that a sports set -up is not really
planned for the project . Mr . Monkemeyer stated his concern about
parking in that , if there is not enough parking on the subject site ,
then they would park on our [ Monkemeyer ] site , adding that he would
like some type of guarantee that Danby Road Housing tenants would not
park on the Monkemeyer site , and vice versa for the Monkemeyer tenants .
Mr . Monkemeyer also stated that he had a concern about drainage run - off
from the lands to the east , which is uphill . Mr . Tyndall responded
that the water from the east is picked up , essentially , on the site
boundary and channeled directly to the drainage system . Mr . Tyndall
offered that the increase of the volume of water generated by parking
and by roofs is channeled to a storm retention basin . Mr . O ' Brien
noted that that has been engineered and reviewed by the Town Engineer ,
and added that a study is available for review .
There appearing to be no one else from the public who wished to
speak to this matter , Chairman May closed the Public Hearing at 8 : 11
p . m . and brought the matter back to the Board for discussion .
William Lesser stated that he thought Mr . Monkemeyer had a point
about the location of the additional units , adding that these were not
on the Preliminary because under Multiple Residence that rear yard is
not less than twice the height of the nearest structure , and noted that
it sounded like a range of 40 - 60 feet . Mr . Tyndall responded that the
project is multi - family and the requirement is two times the height of
the back yard , which is 75 feet , and the south side is 35 feet .
Mr . Lesser wondered if it were possible to think about a
recreational area in the project . Mr . Tyndall responded that landscape
features would include a simple amphitheater , a lawn for frisbee , and a
trellis or small pavilion , commenting that the area in the middle would
be seeded .
Mr . Klein stated that he felt the list of plants was very
impressive and noted that in some cases the same species were listed by
• caliper , and other times by height . Mr . Tyndall responded that the
large ones are the trees that [ pointing to map ] come around " here " , and
trees that are a little bit larger are listed by caliper . Mr . Novarr
Planning Board - 6 - November 15 , 1988
. offered that a great deal of time has been spent on plants , and felt
that smaller trees would be better . Mr . Klein mentioned that he felt
there were a variety of trees .
Town Engineer Robert Flumerfelt stated that the project engineers
have kept close tabs with him all the way , and added that he felt a
thorough job had been done with the sewer , water , and storm drainage
plan .
Ms . Beeners , referring to the plantings , wondered if the developer
would consider replacing some of the oaks shown in the entrance area in
front of the four buildings , with spruce or another suitable evergreen
to give a little more impact as far as buffering is concerned . Mr .
Tyndall responded that one or two could be placed there , but that he
did not fee ]_ the need to do that . Ms . Beeners asked Mr . Tyndall to
explain the elevation of the two three - story buildings ? Mr . Tyndall
[ indicating on map ] stated that elevation of the building on " this "
side looking " this " way would be nine feet higher than on " this " side .
Mr . Tyndall stated that it would be in the range of 25 ' maximum on
" this " side , and on " this " side it would be nine feet more .
Bob Kenerson wondered if there had been any thoughts about
sidewalks , and the athletic capacities of going up and down Danby Road .
George Frantz , Assistant Town Planner , stated that he had spoken with
Ithaca College . Mr . Frantz offered that Ithaca College has three
athletic fields to the north of the development .
William Lesser wondered if there were any provisions for bicycles .
Mr . Tyndall responded that there have been sidewalks and paths provided
on the developers ' part of the site , which is a gravel road and is
about 12 ' wide . Mr . Frantz offered that Ithaca College does not see a
pedestrian -way between subject project and the campus as being heavily
used , noting that Ithaca College ' s experience with the students is that
students want to drive . Mr . Novarr offered that the proposed tenants
for Danby Road Housing are not new kids being housed , they attend
Ithaca College right now , and presumably they are parking on the Ithaca
College campus .
There appearing to be no further discussion , Chairman May asked if
anyone were prepared to make a motion .
MOTION by Mrs . Virginia Langhans , seconded by Mr . James Baker :
WHEREAS :
1 . This action is the Consideration of Final Site Plan Approval for
the proposed " Danby Road Housing " project , proposed to be located
in a Multiple Residence District at 1033 Danby Road , Town of
Ithaca Tax Parcels No . 6 - 43 - 1 - 1 . 2 , - 2 . 2 , and - 6 .
2 . This is a Type I action for which the Planning Board , on September
• 6 , 1988 , made a negative determination of environmental
significance , and granted Preliminary Site Plan Approval with
certain conditions .
Planning Board - 7 - November 15 , 1988
• 3 . The Planning Board , at Public Hearing on November 15 , 1988 , has
reviewed the final site plan and other application submissions for
final site plan approval .
THEREFORE , IT IS RESOLVED :
That the Planning Board grant and hereby does grant Final Site
Plan Approval to the project as proposed , subject to the following
conditions :
1 . That the maximum height of all buildings on the site shall be
thirty ( 30 ) feet , excepting the two buildings in the northeast
portion of the site which shall have a height not exceeding
thirty - three ( 33 ) feet .
2 . Approval of final site working drawings by the Town Engineer prior
to the issuance of any building permits , with said working
drawings to have no deviations from the distances between the
buildin<� and parking areas and the boundaries of the project as
shown on the site plan approved by the Planning Board on November
15 , 19813 , or on a subsequent revised site plan as would be subject
to approval by the Planning Board .
3 . Approval of water and sewer systems design by the Tompkins County
Health Department prior to the issuance of any building permits .
• 4 . Approval of an agreement with respect to the private long - term
maintenance of the proposed retention pond by the Town Attorney
and thE! New York State Department of Transportation Regional
Engineer- prior to the issuance of any building permits .
5 . Approval_ of the final planting installation schedule , and approval
of the design of the protective fencing in the northwest portion
of the site , by the Town Planner prior to the issuance of any
building permits .
6 . The planting plan shall include the addition of evergreen trees
for naturalizing in the conservation areas on the south and east
edges of the site , and the addition of evergreen trees in the
entrancE! plantings near Danby Road , to be approved by the Town
Planner .
7 . The proposed drive lanes on the site , with the exception of the
divided access road , shall have a minimum width of 25 feet .
8 . The project shall have a maximum occupancy of 600 people , except
as may be subsequently modified upon approval by the Planning
Board .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote .
• Aye - May , Baker , Grigorov , Langhans , Klein , Kenerson , Lesser , Miller .
Nay - None .
0
Planning Board - 8 - November 15 , 1988
• The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously .
Chairman May declared the matter of Consideration of Final Site
Plan Approval for the proposed " Danby Road Housing " project duly closed
at 8 : 40 p . m .
PUBLIC HEARING : CONSIDERATION OF FINAL SITE PLAN APPROVAL FOR PHASE
III OF COLLEGEVIEW PARK , PROPOSED TO CONSIST OF 10 MOBILE HOMES ,
LOCATED IN A MOBILE HOME PARK DISTRICT ON SEVEN MILE DRIVE , ON TOWN OF
ITHACA TAX PARCEL NO . 6 - 33 - 2 - 2 , AND ON A PORTION OF TOWN OF ITHACA TAX
PARCEL NO . 6 - 33 - 2 - 1 . 1 . PAUL JACOBS , OWNER .
Chairman May declared the Public Hearing in the above - noted matter
duly opened at 8 : 41 p . m . and read aloud from the Notice of Public
Hearings as posted and published and as noted above .
Mr . Paul Jacobs addressed the Board and stated that Phases I and
II have been completed . Mr . Jacobs stated that he is now requesting
final site plan approval for ten mobile homes in Phase III .
Chairman May noted that this was a Public Hearing and asked if
anyone present wished to speak . No one spoke . Chairman May closed the
Public Hearing at 8 : 42 p . m . and brought the matter back to the Board
for discussion .
Robert Miller asked about the proposed cul de sac in Phase III ,
and how close it was to Calkins Road . Mr . Jacobs responded that it was
roughly 1200 feet .
Virginia Langhans wondered if there were any problems with the
water , with Mr . Jacobs answering , no . Mr . Jacobs noted that the water
usage is roughly 4000 gallons per day .
Robert Kenerson wondered if the garages were going to be
constructed . Mr . Jacobs responded that it was optional to the tenants .
Mr . Kenerson inquired as to the number of double -wiles , with Mr . Jacobs
answering , seven .
William Lesser wondered how long the cul de sac was . Mr . Jacobs
responded that it was approximately 700 feet .
At this point , Town Planner Susan Beeners directed her comment to
Robert Flumerfelt , Town Engineer . Ms . Beeners noted that Mr .
Flumerfelt had spoken with Rick Ewald at the Health Department
concerning the water and sewer , and it was confirmed that there were no
problems . Mr . Flumerfelt responded that that was correct , adding , the
park is not , apparently , using the average amount of water . Mr .
Flumerfelt stated that the water supply seems to be entirely adequate .
Mr . Jacobs offered that the occupancy rate is 1 . 84 per home , 42 homes ,
and 71 people .
• Town Planner Susan Benners referred to PART II - Environmental
Assessment Collegeview Mobile Home Park Phase III . Ms . Beeners
Planning Board - 9 - November 15 , 1988
• stated that Paragraph 3 should be corrected to read : " With the low
occupancy rate " , not " With the low vacancy rate " .
There appearing to be no further discussion , Chairman May asked if
anyone were ;prepared to make a motion .
MOTION :by Mr . Robert Kenerson , seconded by Mrs . Carolyn Grigorov :
WHEREAS :
1 . This action is the Consideration of Final Site Plan Approval for
Phase III of Collegeview Mobile Home Park , proposed to consist of
10 mobile homes , located in a Mobile Home Park District on Seven
Mile Drive , on Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No . 6 - 33 - 2 - 2 , and on a
portion of Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No . 6 - 33 - 2 - 1 . 1 .
2 . This i ;s part of a Type I action which has received prior
environmental review and determinations of no significant
environmental impact , subject to certain conditions , by the Town
Board and the Planning Board .
3 . The Planning Board , on November 15 , 1988 , has reviewed the site
plan for the project and has heard the report of the Town Engineer
with respect to adequacy of water and sewage disposal facilities
currently foreseen for Phase III .
• THEREFORE , IT IS RESOLVED :
1 . That the Planning Board determine and hereby does determine that
there would be no significant adverse impact on water supplies and
septic systems from the already constructed units with the
addition of the proposed 10 Phase III units .
2 . That the Planning Board further determine and hereby does further
determine that the proposed Phase III will have no other
significant environmental impact .
3 . That the Planning Board grant and hereby does grant Final Site
Plan Approval to Phase III of Collegeview Mobile Home Park ,
subject to all pertinent requirements of prior resolutions
pertaining to the Park , and further subject to the following
conditions :
a . Approval of the Phase III sewage disposal facilities and
water supply lines by the Tompkins County Health Department .
b . Final approval of the cul de sac design and installation by
the Town Engineer prior to the issuance of any certificates
of compliance for Phase III .
There being no further discussion , the Chair calld for a vote .
• Aye - May , Baker , Grigorov , Langhans , Klein , Kenerson , Lesser , Miller .
Nay - None .
Planning Board - 10 - November 15 , 1988
• The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously .
Chairman May declared the Consideration of Final Site Plan
Approval for Phase III of Collegeview Park duly closed at 8 : 52 p . m .
PUBLIC HEARING CONSIDERATION OF PRELIMINARY SUBDIVISION APPROVAL FOR
THE PROPOSED " ROSE HILL SUBDIVISION " , PROPOSED TO CONSIST OF 150 PART
CONVENTIONAL , PART CLUSTERED DWELLING UNITS , PROPOSED TO BE LOCATED ON
MECKLENBURG AND WEST HAVEN ROADS ON A PORTION OF TOWN OF ITHACA TAX
PARCEL NO . 6 - 28 - 1 - 26 . 2 . JOSEPH BARRICK , LAKESIDE DEVELOPMENT , INC . ,
APPLICANT .
Chairman May declared the Public Hearing in the above -noted matter
duly opened at 8 : 53 p . m . and read aloud from the Notice of Public
Hearings as posted and published and as noted above .
Mr . Dari Bower of Hunt Engineers and Architects approached the
Board and stated that he was representing the developer . Mr . Bower
appended maps to the bulletin board .
Mr . Bower stated that , since the last meeting , the developer has
met with several of the adjacent owners , and also walked the site . Mr .
Bower noted that he and the developer had met with Mr . Ostrander , Mr .
Westfall , Dr . Mitchell , Dr . Hesson , Mr . Hollister ,, and Mrs . DeGraff ,
Mr . Bower offered that several of these residents live very close to
• the project , adding that some good viewpoints were noted , particularly
with traffic , drainage , and general layout . Mr . Bower stated that the
Barricks have met with area realtors , and secured some information on
clustered housing and the salability of different types of housing .
Mr . Bower noted that an expert in the field of developing cluster
housing had been consulted , adding that this was from the Boston , Mass ,
area to give an idea of how cluster housing would work in the Ithaca
area . Mr . Bower noted that on November 8 , 1988 the plans were reviewed
with Town Planner Susan Beeners , adding that the plans presented
tonight represent a culmination of those efforts . Mr . Bower [ pointing
to map ] stated that the townhouse clustered concept is in " this "
corner , where the wooded portion of the property is , and the
residential housing is in " this " area . Mr . Bower offered that the
developer has strived to use , basically , the environmental concerns and
existing aspects to govern the layout . Mr . Bower remarked that there
would be a total of 50 townhouse units . Mr . Bower stated that the
recreation area is included , and as pointed out before , there are
hiking trail; , some jogging trails , and the developer is thinking of an
adult recreation facility , commenting that the type of housing is
targeted primarily toward adults . Mr . Bower mentioned that each unit
has its own garage , plus a parking space in front of the garage , with a
25 - foot length driveway . Indicating on map , Mr . Bower said that there
had been a discussion to add a stretch of right - of -way " here " so that
" this " road could be extended to what is currently owned by the YMCA ,
adding that a couple of other drive alternatives to the south had been
discussed . Mr . Bower stated that the developer was asked what the
• plans would include should the water system not go through , adding that
the upper highest point on the property is a target area for some sort
of storage facility . Mr . Bower pointed out the " green " area that
Planning Board - 11 - November 15 , 1988
represents all the buffer zones and green space open areas , plus the
fact that all the lots are in excess of 3 / 4 acres , so the individual
lots have a massive amount of green space , and commented that subject
site is a 177 acre tract of land .
At this point , Mr . Bower stated that he had talked with some of
the residents along West Haven Road regarding the drainage , adding that
in all the discussions , as near as can be anticipated , with the use of
the pond as a detention facility , and a small detention facility along
West Haven Road , plus the normal traffic , the project would be
intercepting a great deal of the run - off water that is currently
causing problems and channeling it in other directions . Mr . Bower said
that he had a discussion with Mrs . DeGraff about the vegetation , noting
that all the vegetation would be kept intact . Robert Kenerson wondered
if it would be handled with a deed restriction , with Mr . Bower
answering , yes .
Mr . Bower mentioned the possibility of creating a trail for future
use , which would connect the project ' s recreation facility to West
Haven Road ,
Mr . Bower stated that a question was raised concerning the pump
unit ownership , adding that the developer was still a little vague on
that particular subject , in that the developer is anticipating that , if
the Town goes ahead with their project , the developer would prefer to
own the pump from the standpoint that the developer would like to
recuperate the pumping units as they are quite an expensive item , and
they would no longer be needed when the tank is built farther up on the
hill . Mr . B 'Dwer stated that the developer wants to reserve judgment on
this , although the developer is heading toward the possibility that the
Town is going to solve the problem , and the developer would like to own
the actual facility .
Attorney Barney questioned ownership of the pump unit . Mr . Bower
responded , yes , the developer would like to retain ownership . Town
Engineer Robert Flumerfelt noted that , perhaps , some agreement could be
worked out with Bolton Point that the Town could maintain the public
water supply system . Chairman May stated that if the Town maintains
it , they should own it . Attorney Barney stated that he would look into
the matter . Robert Kenerson wondered if the pumps would serve the
whole project . Mr . Flumerfelt answered , no , just the lower portion ,
which would be Phases I and II .
Mr . Walter Barrick , one of the principals in Lakeside Development ,
addressed the Board and stated that some research had been done in
regard to cluster housing . Mr . Barrick offered that , generally
speaking , the need for cluster is to address a hardship in many cases ,
or to increase density where it is needed , and also to promote green
area and open space . Mr . Barrick said that almost a cluster concept is
being dealt with now , and secondly , the developer has large lots ,
noting that , usually , cluster housing if it is detached single dwelling
. zoning housing , one is dealing with smaller lots , and trying to get the
most out of a piece of land . Mr . Barrick offered that lots 3 / 4 of an
acre in size are not the normal situation or desirable for cluster
Planning Board - 12 - November 15 , 1988
• housing . Mr . Barrick stated that the developer is trying to address a
broad market with the townhouses and single - family lots .
George Frantz , Assistant Town Planner , asked Mr . Barrick about the
price of the lots . Mr . Barrick responded that the lots that would be
marketed would probably be in the minimum range of $ 40 , 000 . 00 . Mr .
Barrick commented that the developers ' expectation was to do some
building , and sell some lots , thereby allowing the buyer to build his
own home . Mr . Barrick offered that there would be deed restrictions
and covenants that will dictate what one can do . Mr . Barrick noted
that selling lots to builders would be entertained , but with
developer / owner approval of the plans .
Carolyn Grigorov stated that there seems to be a misconception
concerning cluster , noting that it is not used to increase density , it
is denser in one part , but then the other part is completely open ,
commenting it: is the same number of dwelling units .
Virginia Langhans wondered what the local realtors said about the
townhouse clusters . Mr . Barrick responded that they were very
negative , adding that they thought the single - family lot concept is
still very much in damand .
At this time , Ms . Beeners and Mr . Frantz appended a map showing
cluster housing plan for this project , which was designed by them , to
the bulletin board . Mr . Frantz stated that the reason for designing a
cluster plan was in the interest of preserving open space , and
basically , trying to cut off the tendency toward urban sprawl . Mr .
Barrick commented that by clustering he felt the marketability was
being extremely minimized , and creating a situation of the types of
homes that can be constructed , hence , really digging into the tax
revenue potential . Mr . Frantz wondered if Mr . Barrick had done any
fiscal impact: analysis . Mr . Barrick answered that they had . Mr . Bower
stated that the conceptual plan was submitted over six months ago , and
noted that not one response had been received on the conceptual plan
from the Board or the Planning Department . Mr . Bower felt that , in
this particular case , there is a difference of opinion being dealt
with . Mr . Bower also felt that the people who are paying the money
have the right to their opinion of what they would like to do with
their property .
Chairman May stated that one of the things that the Subdivision
Ordinance states is that the Planning Board does have the right to
request to look at an alternate cluster plan .
Chairman May noted that this was a Public Hearing and asked if
there were anyone from the public who had any comments or questions .
Sally Wessels , a resident of Longhouse at 770 Elm Street Ext . ,
spoke from the floor and expressed her concern of adding 300 people or
more to that area , and what it would do on the impact of the area .
• Christopher McVoy , a resident of Longhouse at 770 Elm Street Ext .
spoke from the floor and expressed his concern that there was no public
• o
Planning Board - 13 - November 15 , 1988
• transportation to the subject project , and also had a concern with
congested traffic . Mr . McVoy was concerned about preserving green
space .
Dr . Robert Hesson of 162 West Haven Road spoke from the floor and
stated that he was one of the people interested in purchasing a lot ,
and added that he would , absolutely , not be interested in purchasing a
matchbox size lot . Dr . Hesson commented that he would like to move up ,
and added that his home , at the present time , is worth about
$ 175 , 000 . 00 . Mr . Frantz pointed out that the lots are not matchbox
size lots . Chairman May , directing his comment to Dr . Hesson , stated
that no one has suggested that this plan is the final plan , noting that
the planning staff was merely showing the drawing as an example of what
cluster can do . Chairman May noted that the project must be looked at ,
architecturally and design -wise , as a cluster project , and added that
he believed that was what the Board asked for at the last meeting . Ms .
Beeners offered that she and Mr . Frantz were merely responding to the
desires of the Board in presenting the plan .
Dr . Margaret Smith of 770 Elm Street Ext , spoke from the floor and
expressed her concern about traffic , and also expressed a concern with
the drainage run - off .
Don Henry of 140 West Haven Road appeared before the Board and
stated his concern with the mph speed limit on West Haven Road .
• Chairman May responded that that was a Town Board issue , not a Planning
Board issue . Mr . Henry expressed his concern with the water pressure
issue , and also the increased traffic on Route 79 .
David Warden of 1343 Mecklenburg Road addressed the Board and
mentioned his concern with the traffic impact . Mr . Warden noted that
there does not seem to be much lower income housing around , and felt
that as a Town Board and Planning Board , this should be a real strong
consideration. . Mr . Warden stated that he felt the project itself looks
pretty neat .
Robert Schmidt of 177 West Haven Road approached the Board and
offered that he was delighted with the water , as he previously had
sulphur water . Mr . Schmidt stated that he appreciated the developers
consulting the neighbors , and added that the development seemed well
conceived , and not the least bit destructive of the views to the west .
John Whitcomb of 233 Troy Road spoke from the floor and commended
the Planning Board for its interest in cluster housing , adding that he
thought it was the wave of the future . Mr . Whitcomb commented to the
Planning Board - " stick to your guns " .
There appearing to be no one else from the public who wished to
speak to this matter , Chairman May closed the Public Hearing at 9 : 54
p . m . and brought the matter back to the Board for discussion .
• Carolyn Grigorov wondered if the Planning Board had the power to
mandate cluster . Chairman May responded that the Board has the power
to mandate that a developer present a cluster proposal . Attorney
Planning Board - 14 - November 15 , 1988
• Barney remarked that Section 281 of the Town Law states that the Town
Board may delegate to the Planning Board the right , in effect , to
compel any developer of a subdivision to produce a cluster plan , noting
that this was also incorporated into a Town Board resolution in 1982 ,
where the Town Board delegated to the Planning Board the authority to
mandate clustered subdivisions in the Town of Ithaca . Continuing ,
Attorney Barney noted that it was authorized that the Planning Board
could require developers to submit a clustered subdivision plan
whenever the Planning Board believes that the application of such
procedure would benefit the Town . Attorney Barney stated that Chairman
May was absolutely right in his characterization of the law ; the Board
can compel the submission of a plan , the Board is not necessarily
obliged to use the plan . Attorney Barney stated that the Board can
take the position that they would not approve a non - cluster subdivision
until the Board has seen a cluster pian and decided that for the
particular location in the particular area , that the non - cluster plan
is a better plan . Mr . Barrick stated that their original thoughts on
different scenarios that the developer has put together in coming up
with what they considered a final plan , were that they would meet the
needs best of that piece of property . Mr . Barrick mentioned
marketability , utility , view , open space area , road access , and pricing
in particular . Mr . Barrick stated that the developer considers the
wooded area a cluster housing development , noting that there is the
concentration of 50 units in that area , and is affecting 20 - 25 % of the
wooded area . Mr . Barrick noted that there was the consolidation of up
• to 10 - 12 units in each cluster , adding that that was their approach to
what cluster housing really is . Mr . Barrick felt that they were
meeting a percentage of the development ' s project in servicing that
particular market , and that particular need .
Chairman May stated that the Planning Board wants to see a cluster
proposal for this project , which does not mean a cluster proposal for
the townhouse area . Chairman May commented that there are some times
that the Planning Board , in its opinion , and also working with the
developer , has taken one or the other , but the Board wants to see a
cluster plan . Mr . Barrick mentioned the easements that were on the
property .
Ms . Beeners stated that both of the utility easements can be
accommodated in a conventional subdivision , and noted that it should be
recognized that there are advantages on the large lots as far as the
flexibility of the house placement . Ms . Beeners mentioned that one can
have a clustered development with detached houses , it does not
necessarily have to mean an entire attached housing development .
Mr . Barrick stated that it would help him to know what the
motivation was for cluster housing on this property . Virginia Langhans
responded that it would retain open space . Mr . Frantz offered that one
of the attractions of the Ithaca area is the open space and views . Mr .
Frantz offered that , at the present time , there are three or four
proposed subdivisions on West Hill , Mr . Frantz stated that he felt the
• intent of the Board was to reflect the intent of the people of the Town
of Ithaca to allow development , but to preserve open , unspoiled natural
Planning Board - 15 - November 15 , 1988
• areas , in which people can go out and enjoy . Mr . Barrick stated that
the developers were not opposed , in any way , to submitting a plan .
At this point , Chairman May polled each member of the Board to see
whether or not they wished to view a cluster plan . The informal vote
was as follows :
Aye - Chairman May , Grigorov , Langhans , Klein , Ken erson , Miller ,
Lesser .
Nay - Baker .
David Klein offered that , in his opinion , what was a little bit
disappointing was that at the last presentation the Board did ask for a
cluster plan , and hoped to see some alternative layouts to the standard
large lot subdivision . Mr . Klein commented that the developer
presented the one area that was designated on the proposal as cluster ,
which was developed into a specific scheme . Mr . Klein remarked that he
believed the intent was to have some advantages of the developers
thinking , so that some of the possibilities can be jointly explored ,
and noted that the Board was not trying to throw a roadblock , but felt
this was a major site . Mr . Klein commented that the impact of what is
going to be developed on the site the Town has to live with for a long
time . Mr . Barrick commented that maybe his frustration was with the
time delay , than actually going ahead and planning a cluster
development within the development . Mr . Barrick stated that a lot of
• time has gone by , and noted that the Board did recommend a cluster plan
presentation at the last meeting . Mr . Barrick offered that this is a
phased program and would take 5 - 7 years to complete , depending on the
marketability .
Mr . Barrick stated that a cluster plan would be presented to the
Board as soon as possible . Mr . Barrick stated , for the record , as to
cluster development , they are not pleased with that style .
There appearing to be no further discussion or comments from the
Board , Chairman May asked if anyone were prepared to offer a motion .
MOTION by Chairman Montgomery May , seconded by Carolyn Grigorov :
RESOLVED , by the Town of Ithaca Planning Board , that the Public
Hearing in the matter of the proposed " Rose Hill Subdivision " be and
hereby is adjourned sine die , to allow time for the developer to
present a cluster plan development .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote .
Aye - May , Grigorov , Langhans , Miller , Klein , Kenerson , Lesser .
Nay - Baker .
The MOTION was declared to be carried .
• Chairman May declared the " Rose Hill Subdivision " matter duly
adjourned at 10 : 25 p . m .
r
Planning Board - 16 - November 15 , 1988
APPROVAL OF MINUTES - APRIL 19 , 1988
MOTION by William Lesser , seconded by Robert Kenerson :
RESOLVED , that the Minutes of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board
Meeting of April 19 , 1988 , be and hereby are approved as written .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote .
Aye - May , Baker , Grigorov , Langhans , Miller , Klein , Kenerson ,
Lesser .
Nay - None .
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously .
PLANNING DEPARTMENT REPORT
At this time , Town Planner Susan Beeners distributed to each of
the members of the Board a copy of certain proposed Zoning Ordinance
amendments . Ms . Beeners stated that in July 1988 there were a series
of legislative amendments to the Zoning Ordinance that were before the
Board , adding , they included building height and lot dimension , as well
as some other things . Ms . Beeners stated that the proposed changes
went to the Town Board and were tabled , noting that the Codes and
Ordinances Committee reviewed them again , and came up with some
• definitions which are a little more palatable to everyone . Ms . Beeners
commented that they include just a clarification , rather than any
increase in building height . Ms . Beeners offered that there is some
very thorough language that Attorney Barney put together as far as how
one measures a lot . Ms . Beeners suggested that the Board review the
proposed amendments --over the next couple of weeks to prepare for a
public hearing on December 6 , 1988 .
Virginia Langhans wondered if any other proposals had been
received regarding the planning consultant . Ms . Beeners responded that
there are a total of seven Request for Proposals in the field , noting
that she received two of them this week , and received a recommendation
from Stuart Stein on two firms . Ms . Beeners stated that two would be
in by the 21st of November , and the remainder would be in the 23rd or
28th .
ANNOUNCEMENT
Chairman May announced that there would not be a Planning Board
meeting on December 20 , 1988 .
ADJOURNMENT
Upon Motion , Chairman May declared the November 15 , 1988 , meeting
of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board duly adjourned at 10 : 40 p . m .
• Respectfully submitted ,
t
Planning. Board - 17 - November 15 , 1988
Mary Bryant , Recording Secretary ,
Nancy M . Fuller , Secretary ,
Town of Ithaca Planning Board .
•
THE ITHACA JOURNAL "
-- cicxscs
rT� ' �� • 1 ' ' ' c _. . ._ . . _. . . _ _ .. ._ . .. _ . -_. _ . _ . . '" p t ; TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING
�•-. : . . ... . �X :.. C :1: � T�'D: .., BOARD, NOTICE OF PUBLIC:
HEARINGS, TUESDAY, . . NO- ,
Itha ., Pourr, !1' � ... E: tC Rj ^! ^si� ^�, tTi � VEMBER 15, 1988 , 't
By direction of the Chairman '
of the Planning Board, NOTICE ,
IS HEREBY GIVEN, that Public
Hearings will be held by ' the'
Planning Board of the Town of
d TM IT &Ac k oi"P N Al It .7b,1 ; � � d '7DCC►. an .b .sbed _ Ithaca on Tuesday, November'
F _ - . _Tri - p - - - �' p' - - - - 15, 1988, in Town Hall,
East Seneca Street, ' It co '
N. Y. , at the followingtimes _- -
_ . ._ ._ .— � L B; � 3D .�. &m D tm- Ot m9hich �! si= exee i a trite and on the following matters: ' t
7: 30 P. M. Consideration of Fi- .
nal SiteAI th
1 � a proposed ro1oDonby RoadHous
f '.''
� _.. L liL _ r1C ____. _ . . __ . _ .— � __ ._ ... . . _.._ _.... P gP project, proposed to be '
located in a Multiple Resi
dente District at 1033 Danby'
— ' — }— - - - -- - ' - —' Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Par-
cels No. 6-43- 1 - 1 . 2, -2: 2, and
_ _ _ - 6, with Preliminary Site Plan,
__ • . . --. .. .._ .. _ _ _.__.. � . _ . Approval having been grant- ,i
.. ._ . — _ _ . . • - - . .r . .. . . _ . . - - - - .. . . -- f Y.
ed, with conditions, by the '
L Planning Board on September ;
i�L �— t_L, L � L :�t L' S1 ^ '_ •_ i` � .L or Sc. ' D ^ ` Y "� O : tt. 6, 1988. J. M. S. Ithaca Realty, ,
Inc. , Owner/Applicant.
8:00 P' M. Consideration of Fi-
y �, nal Site Flan Approval
for
• - - ... . . . • . . . . .. . . •• • " ' ' Phase III of Collegeview Park,
E to consist of 10 mo- '
_ bile homes, located in a Mo
_ . _. .. .. __ _.. . ._ . _._. . . . . . . ____— . bile Home Pork District on Sev-
en Mile Drive, on Town of.
Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 6-33-2-2,
i E . 0
Sii7l ►. . r • • - .+ � - � . o L • - - _ .. ._ _ _ .... . . . and on a portion of Town of,
� : !� . r , , ,, �t . _ . Tu ; i _. _ _ . . � Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 6-33-2- -
I . ] . Paul Jacobs, Owner.
T D 8: 15 P. M. Consideration of
_ . ... . . � _ . . _.. . - _ Preliminary Subdivision Ap-
proval for the proposed "Rose
Hill Subdivision", proposed to
. . -- - .. . . ... ._- -. .. . . -----•... . ... . . _ . . . .. . . . _ ..
consist of 150 part conventio-
}' mc t- �� nal , part clustered dwelling
mp
units, proposed to be located
` on Mecklenburg and West Ho- .
� Eaj� FORD ven Roads on a portion . of
York6-28- 1 -26. 2.
Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. I
State Of New 6-28- 1 -26. 2. ' Joseph Barrick,
NOtafy Public, Lakeside Development, Inc. ,
No . 4654410 Applicant.
Tompll at ,
County
1n k n5 all'dernsoncnPlannindsaidor° fBoard le such
1
Qualified 3 19 in
IfEs a r matters orsobjecttiionstthereto.
�Ofp1pIssion Persons may appear by agent
or in person.
-- Jean H. Swartwood
Town Clerk
- 273- 1721
- _ November : 0, 1988 1 '
r