HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB Minutes 1985-04-02 C ,
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TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD
APRIL 2 , 1985
The Town of Ithaca Planning Board met in regular session on Tuesday ,
April 2 , 1985 , in Town Hall , 126 East Seneca Street , Ithaca , New York , at
7 : 30 p . m .
PRESENT : Chairman Montgomery May , Barbara Schultz , James Baker , David
Klein , Bernard Stanton , Carolyn Grigorov , Edward Mazza , Lawrence
P . Fabbroni ( Town Engineer ) , Lewis D . Cartee ( Building
Inspector ) , Peter M . Lovi ( Town Planner ) , Nancy M . Fuller ,
( Secretary ) .
ALSO PRESENT : Dell L . Grover , Bill Grover , Timothy Buhl , Robert R .
Flumerfelt , E . L . Rose Gostanian Monkemeyer , Lawrence
Hoffman , Scott Perra , Bruce Ryan ( WHCU News ) , Darryl Geddes
( WTKO News ) , Jim McKinley ( WQNY ) , Lisa Best ( OK / 100 / Syracuse
Post Standard ) , Jeff Yohn ( The Ithaca Journal ) .
Chairman May declared the meeting duly opened at 7 : 31 p . m .
APPROVAL OF MINUTES - March 5 , 1985
MOTION by Mr . Bernard Stanton , seconded by Mr . James Baker :
RESOLVED , that the Minutes of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board
Meeting of March 5 , 1985 , be and hereby are approved as written .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote .
Aye - May , Schultz , Baker , Klein , Stanton , Grigorov , Mazza .
Nay - None .
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously .
STAFF REPORT - Peter M . Lovi
Mr . Lovi stated that a lot of the matters about which he has been
reporting have been taken up in the last meetings , and so at this time , he
would like to get some feedback from the Planning Board on the zoning
ordinance . Mr . Lovi reported that he had incorporated the new Local Laws
in the existing Zoning Ordinance and noted that it is still the same
architecture that the Town has been working with since 1968 . Mr . Lovi
stated that he wanted to get a sense from the Board members , before he
spent a lot of his time , as to ( 1 ) is that a good use of his time ? and ( 2 )
if it is , what should he work on first , and , how should he approach it ?
Mr . Lovi stated that , basically , he thought there are some areas which
could be improved upon , adding that he thought the incremental approach was
a good one because it lets people work with a document with which they are
• comfortable . Mr . Lovi commented that we could find areas of this Zoning
Ordinance which we do not like and we could find some areas in which we
could proceed with our own feelings .
4
Planning Board 2 April 2 , 1985
Mrs . Grigorov stated that she had not found anything that she needed
to complain about . Chairman May stated that he thought there were some
areas that need clarification , e . g . , front yard setback and a definition
thereof , and the definition of family could be another area .
Chairman May stated to Mr . Cartee that the Board needed input from him
on areas where he had problems , adding that the Board has had some from the
Zoning Board of Appeals , but Mr . Cartee is the one who enforces the Zoning
Ordinance . Chairman May commented that he did not think there should be an
attempt to re -write the whole thing . Mr . Lovi agreed and stated that he
would also agree that the definition of front yard setback needed to be
clearer . Mr . Lovi stated that there is a very large ambiguity in the
occupancy definitions that should be resolved . Mr . Lovi stated that ,
basically , if you read the Zoning Ordinance which defines the family as
one or more persons . . . " in conjuction with the part that says the " if
neither of such units is occupied by a family . . . " it is pretty clear that
that can never happen - - unless the unit is empty . Mr . Lovi stated that he
thought it quite clear that four people are allowed by that section . Mr .
Mazza stated that he agreed and recalled that he had made that argument
about 7 years ago in connection with the Lawrence Iacovelli Appeal . Mr .
Lovi noted that the Board did take a crack at this problem in 1984 .
Chairman May commented , yes , there were a few meetings , and added that
there is a bit of a head start in this .
Mr . Lovi stated that another related item , which he thought was a bit
more substantial in nature , had to do with a rethinking of how we classify
uses in the business districts , for example . Mr . Lovi noted that it is
done profession by profession in the various " A " , " B " , etc . , zones . Mr .
Lovi commented that it reflects a somewhat simpler time , mentioning a
milliner and a confectioner , and adding that they are not quite of the
high - tech times of today . Mr . Lovi stated that he thought a better way
would be by types of uses and their effects and that is why he thought ,
perhaps , the way to start a little rethinking is with the five business
classes .
Chairman May stated that he did not want the Board to forget its
comprehensive plan work , adding that it has gotten away from it a little
bit . Chairman May stated that he would like to see it as a preamble , or
opening statement , or whatever , soon .
Chairman May , speaking to Mr . Cartee , stated that he thought Mr .
Cartee wanted something in the ordinace addressing satellite dishes .
Chairman May commented that he had seen an article in the Ithaca Journal
with something about the FCC taking over such installations which would ,
effectively , preempt local laws , meaning that a municipality could not zone
out satellite dishes . Mr . Mazza stated that that does not necesarily mean
that a municipality could do nothing . A discussion followed with respect
to satellites and satellite dishes .
Mr . Stanton commented that it seemed that Chairman May or Mr . Lovi
were implying that the Town Board would be happy with these kinds of
changes , and asked if that were the case . Chairman May responded that he
was not sure that that kind of implication was there at all , adding that he
thought of the discussion as one of staff problems being presented .
i
Planning Board 3 April 2 , 1985
Mr . Stanton wondered what had ever happened to the " Proposed Revised
Zoning Ordinance Map " , dated June 10 , 1981 , asking if it were a dead issue ,
and adding that he had a lot of things about this map that he liked . Mr .
Stanton stated that there were many of these pieces that could be well
considered including the format which was , he thought , clearer and easier
to read than the existing zoning designation map . There followed a
discussion of what an up - to - date , existing zoning , Zoning Map should look
like .
Mrs . Grigorov asked about the situation with respect to the Six Mile
Creek Study Committee , Mr . Lovi described the status of that committee
indicating that the time may be coming where it will no longer be as
necessary . Mrs . Grigorov commented that she thought it had served the
community in a very beneficial manner .
ANNOUNCEMENT IN RE PUBLIC HEARING : SITE PLAN REVIEW FOR THE RELOCATION OF
A STORAGE BUILDING ON THE GROUNDS OF THERM , INC . TOWN OF ITHACA TAX PARCEL
54 - 2 - 1 , ARNOLD ALBRECHT , REPRESENTATIVE .
It being just about 7 : 45 p . m . , Chairman May announced for everyone ' s
information that the Public Hearing with respect to the Therm matter had
been cancelled by the applicant and will be rescheduled .
REPORT OF THE TOWN ENGINEER - Lawrence P . Fabbroni
Mr . Fabbroni stated that each of the Board members is invited to come
down to the New Sewer Plant at any time and described its location and also
the location of the Owner ' s Trailer where he can be found . Mr . Fabbroni
reported that everything is moving along quite well and stated that the
influent building is completed up to ground level . Mr . Fabbroni stated
that things should be ready to go across Route 13 this summer . Mr .
Fabbroni reported that the digester tanks are nearing completion as far as
the walls go . Mr . Fabbroni stated that the second contractor is now busy
cutting off all the piles and described , what he termed , mud mats , forming
the bottom of the tanks . Mr . Fabbroni reported that a lot of the other
contractors are getting more and more involved with the site , particularly
the influent building . Mr . Fabbroni reported that pipe is going toward the
Lake and is about half completed , adding that actual construction in the
Lake will start about May 1st . Referring to the golf course area , Mr .
Fabbroni stated that , although weather - dependent , it is nearly completed .
Mrs . Grigorov asked for directions on how to get to the site and to
Mr . Fabbroni ' s trailer . Mr . Fabbroni described the road off Meadow Street
( Route 13 ) between Grossman ' s Lumber and Haverstick ' s and the trailer which
is marked " City of Ithaca " .
Mr . Fabbroni stated that the other thing in the hopper is the Burns
Road improvement project completion . Mr . Fabbroni reported that the County
is going to build the bridge in the next 100 days . Mr . Fabbroni reported
that there is an outside chance that the Town may see some State money for
Phase II .
•
Planning Board 4 April 2 , 1985
Mr . Fabbroni reported briefly on several other projects , including - -
( 1 ) the proposed access from Eastern Heights through Slaterville Road . In
that regard , Mr . Fabbroni stated that a lot of things hinge together . - -
( 2 ) Mr . Fabbroni reported that both the interior and the exterior of the
Pine Tree Road and the Hungerford Hill water tanks are going to be painted ,
adding that preparations are moving ahead with respect to going to bid on
that job . - - ( 3 ) Mr . Fabbroni reported that the Pine Tree Road relocation
project will be designed if things get straighted out at the County level .
- - ( 4 ) Mr . Fabbroni reported , referring to West Hill , that the water line
construction will start very soon and will provide public water for West
Haven Road , among others . Mr . Fabbroni reported that LaFayette Pipeline
will be starting on Bundy Road and will go , across fields , from Bundy Road
to Mecklenburg Road and then on to West Haven . Mr . Klein wondered if the
line will be following the mapped roads . Mr . Fabbroni responded , no , and
described the actual roads which will be watered and how that will be
achieved . Mr . Fabbroni also described the East King Road area that will be
served by the new water line .
Mr . Stanton stated that he would like to extend to Mr . Fabbroni his
commendations on the achievement of a workable plan for Forest Home Drive .
REPORT OF THE BUILDING INSPECTOR - Lewis D . Cartee
Mr . Cartee stated that his Report of Building Permits Issued for March
1985 , a copy of which each Board member had received , indicates that 13
permits were issued in March 1985 for a total of $ 175 , 100 . 00 in
• improvements , as compared with March of 1984 , when 5 permits were issued
for a total of $ 115 , 847 . 00 in improvements .
As a matter of information , Mr . Cartee stated that House Craft
Builders ( Commonland Community ) has just filed applications for 25 building
permits which will have quite an impact on the April report . Mr . Cartee
reported that they are going to develop " The Meadows " and the " Round Rock "
area .
Mr . Cartee stated that the Zoning Board of Appeals thanks the Planning
Board for its recommendations with respect to the church on Pine Tree Road ,
REPORT OF THE PLANNING BOARD REPRESENTATIVE TO THE COUNTY PLANNING BOARD - -
Carolyn Grigorov .
Mrs . Grigorov reported that the February 13th , 1985 , meeting of the
County Planning Board was primarily devoted to a presentation by Helen
Jones of the City of Ithaca Planning Staff and James Dennis , City Alderman ,
on the hydro - electric power planning activities of the City with respect to
plans for the proposed development of a hydro -electric power plant in the
area of the Ithaca Falls . Mrs . Grigorov stated that , personally , she was
convinced that the City of Ithaca would be the best choice as the developer
of such a facility .
Mrs . Grigorov reported that the March 13th , 1985 , meeting of the
• County Planning Board involved a panel discussion on the " Role of Advisory
Boards , Goals , and Interactions . " Mrs . Grigorov stated that there are a
lot of Boards advising the County Board of Representatives , commenting that
Planning Board 5 April 2 , 1985
ithe areas of concern of each conflict from time to time . Mrs . Grigorov
stated that there was discussion on ways for the various Boards to do the
most productive work . Mrs . Grigorov commented that Mr . Liguori had
mentioned that Tompkins County is very progressive in almost every way
except roads .
ANNOUNCEMENT IN RE PUBLIC HEARING . SITE PLAN REVIEW IN RE THE PROPOSED
YOUTH BUREAU FACILITY SITE PLAN LAYOUT AND ROAD RELOCATION AT THE PRESENT
YOUTH BUREAU SITE , STEWART PARK , JONATHAN C • MEIGS , PLANNER , CITY OF
ITHACA .
It being close to 8 : 15 p . m . , Chairman May announced that the Public
Hearing on the plans for the Youth Bureau has also been cancelled .
Chairman May stated that , however , the Board will continue on to
another area of concern before the Public Hearing scheduled for 8 : 45 p . m .
on the Grover /Mazza development . Chairman May stated that he was referring
to a memo from Supervisor Desch on Pennsylvania Avenue area development and
he thought the Board needed to have some discussion on that .
PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE AREA DEVELOPMENT
Since the Planning Board members had not received a copy of the Memo
to which the Chair was referring , at their request Chairman May read aloud
as follows :
" March 22 , 1985
I note with interest and concern the increasing pressure being placed on
this neighborhood by Ithaca College student housing needs . ( See minutes of
Planning Board , 3 / 5 / 85 on the Iacovelli plan for 145 - 149 Kendall Avenue ,
Page 8 ) . While it is generally positive to consolidate three lots into
two , I believe the trend can prove to be as devastating as the observable
in adjacent City of Ithaca neighborhoos , Fall Creek , etc .
I would like to find out what the potential for this higher than
anticipated college age density is . As I recall , the reason the Ithaca
Land Development Company subdivided this tract , as shown on tax maps , was
to provide affordable housing for factory work at what is now Morse
Industrial . Clearly , the intention was for single family housing . In the
past few years we have seen considerable progress in improving the
appearance of this neighborhood and we need to be careful not to create the
opportunity for it to go down hill again .
Some questions that I believe are pertinent to our future planning policies
in this area .
A . Lots fronting on existing Town streets
1 . What lots are developed as
( a ) single family
( b ) two family
( c ) who owns ( a ) and ( b ) lots ?
2 . Who owns the undeveloped lots ?
3 . What it total assessed value , # water and sewer units ?
• Be Lots fronting on paper streets
1 . What lots are developed as
( a ) single family
t
Planning Board 6 April 2 , 1985
( b ) two family
( c ) who owns ( a ) and ( b ) lots ?
2 . Who owns the undeveloped lots ?
3 . What is total assessed value , # water and sewer units ?
4 . To which lots are water and / or sewer available ?
5 . From a purely land use standpoint , should the old
non - conforming paper subdivision be invalidated ?
6 . From a legal standpoint , can it be invalidated since no
activity has occurred in 70 + ( ? ) years ?
I expect we soon will be reopening discussions about the new zoning law .
We will need the answers to as many of these questions as are answerable
ahead of the zoning discussions . Let ' s try to have them , if possible , by
May 15 . Perhaps a preliminary discussion would be useful about mid -April .
I presume Larry or Peter will set it up .
Most of the information can be shown on the pertinent maps using symbols ,
etc . "
Chairman May stated that he had specifically asked Mr . Cartee to be
here tonight to take part in this discussion .
Mr . Stanton asked if this memo were on initiation from some Town Board
members or is it from the Supervisor . Chairman May stated that he could
not really answer that , commenting that it may be a result of the Planning
Board Minutes of March 5th , and adding that , as far as he knew , there were
no hidden agendas . Chairman May stated that he thought it was a legitimate
question , adding that the Supervisor has some concerns about this paper
subdivision and that he ( May ) knew nothing about any other aspect .
Mr . Mazza stated that he did not think any rights that were there
before the zoning ordinance was enacted can be taken away .
Mrs . Grigorov stated that , also , one cannot legislate against a
particular group .
Mr . Klein wondered what happened at the Zoning Board of Appeals
meeting [ March 20 , 19851 on both the Iacovelli and the Ash requests . Mr .
Mazza stated that the ZBA approved both of them .
Mr . Fabbroni stated that he thought it would be good to hear Mr .
Cartee ' s impression of what is happening in the neighborhood and , also , it
could be helpful to hear from Mrs . Schultz who lives there .
Mr . Cartee stated that , first , he would direct the Board members to a
conversation he and Mr . Fabbroni and Mr . Lovi had while getting this
information together . Noting that discussion this evening was not really
expected , Mr . Cartee stated that in some short time Mr . Fabbroni will have
a map showing what is there , what new construction there has been in the
past ten years , and what we may , or may not , see in the future . Mr . Cartee
stated that since January of 1975 , there have been building permits issued
for 10 structures on Pennsylvania and Kendall Avenues , Mr . Cartee stated
that these include two , four - unit structures , one , three -unit , and the rest
one - family . Mr . Cartee stated , so , development has not been all that much .
Mr . Cartee stated that , if one had ridden down Pennsylvania Avenue
• and
Kendall Avenue in 1974 and 1975 and rode back now , one will see this
Planning Board 7 April 2 , 1985
• development has made a marked improvement in the appearance in the
neighborhood . Mr . Cartee stated that Mrs . Schultz could say that too . Mr .
Cartee stated that this new develoment has influenced the old owners in the
neighborhood , commenting that they have painted their homes ; they have
cleaned up their yards , and so on .
Mr . Cartee stated that the could not project on the paper streets at
this particular moment , however , they could be projected on the map which
he spoke of . Mr . Cartee stated that this map can show what lots have been
devoted to other properties and what there is left to develop .
Mr . Mazza asked Mr . Cartee if he were saying that these things have
been an improvement . Mr . Cartee stated that he was , adding that they have
been a very definite improvement , and further adding that Mrs . Schultz and
Mr . Iacovelli have encouraged the area improvement by their buildings up
there . Mr . Cartee stated that there will be ' a duplex near Mrs . Schultz ' s
property [ Ash ] where two lots have been bought and which will make things
look even better . Mr . Cartee stated that he thought we will continue to
see this kind of development , commenting that he could foresee construction
on Coddington Road . Mr . Cartee spoke of two small lots in the 200 block of
Coddington Road which he could see being developed . Mr . Cartee stated that
he could see others in the R - 9 zones , adding that he thought it was a great
thing . Mr . Cartee wondered , if we did not have people like the Schultzes
and the Iacovellis who live there , who would we have building there . Mr .
Cartee spoke of the 50 - foot by 100 - foot lots and commented that the
combining of these lots may be the answer . Mr . Cartee stated that Mr .
• Fabbroni has been with the Town for eleven years and , thus , more involved
than he , but he would say that it is a better area now with a better
appearance and with better attitudes .
Mr . Mazza stated that at the ZBA meeting [March 20 , 19851 there were
only two neighbors who wrote letters on the Ash appeal , none on the
Iacovelli appeal , and no one showed up to object . Mr . Mazza stated that of
the two letters written , one was from the mother - in - law of the other . Mr .
Cartee commented that that person has his property , a two - family , up for
sale .
Mrs . Schultz stated that the problem is not with new construction , the
problem is with the old one - family homes that have an apartment . Mrs .
Schultz stated that the three so - called " multiple " dwellings are not the
real problem . Mrs . Schultz stated that she knew of two large houses on the
other side of her which are owned by little old ladies and when those
ladies are no longer there those houses will be sold and cut up . Mrs .
Schultz stated that she did not think the problem was with the approvals
and regulation of new construction , it is with the regulation of the old
homes if they are sold and changed . Mrs . Schultz stated that she agreed
with Mr . Cartee that the duplex proposed on the Topley and Bonnani property
will improve the area also .
Mr . Mazza stated that the number of occupants permitted in the area
has not been increased , in fact , in some cases has been decreased . Mr .
• Mazza stated that he took issue with people talking about " students " like
they weren ' t people , adding that he was a student once himself and not all
that long ago . Mr . Mazza stated that trying to regulate against students
Planning Board 8 April 2 , 1985
• is the wrong way to look at it . Mr . Mazza noted that all ten permits in
the ten years have not increased the density allowed by the zoning
ordinance , adding that the dedication of additional lots makes it such that
they can build better homes .
Mr . Fabbroni stated that he thought there were a couple of
misconceptions here , adding that he was a little surprised in being asked
to speak to this tonight , however , his office has been working on the
Supervisor ' s request preparing for what he thought would be discussed in
May . Mr . Fabbroni asked that the Board members look at a sheet of paper
which was going around the table showing the building permits issued for
residences on Pennsylvania and Kendall Avenues since January of 1975 . Mr .
Fabbroni stated that none of the " multiple " units constructed [ Lawrence
Iacovelli , 3 units , 167 Kendall ; Lawrence Iacovelli , 4 units , 162 - 164
Kendall ; Anthony Schultz , 4 units , 258 Pennsylvania ] increased the density
that would have been allowed in the R- 9 zone . Mr . Fabbroni pointed out
that there were a number of small Ithaca Land Company tract parcels which
were dedicated to these uses , and commented that James Iacovelli dedicated
5 lots to two buildings . Mr . Fabbroni stated that he felt this was the
primary misconception . Mr . Fabbroni stated that the other misconception is
that this land was developed for Morse Chain workers . Mr . Fabbroni stated
that this is absolutely not the case . Mr . Fabbroni , commenting that he
will be getting even more information on the history of this area from Mrs .
Pakkala , stated that , although it is not refined , he could speak to the
history somewhat from his research . Mr . Fabbroni described the very early
history of the area when it was called the " Klondike " which was the Conover
• farm . Mr . Fabbroni described how when people came to Town to work on the
railroad or to do the stone work on the Cornell buildings some
entrepreneurs bought most of the land in the 1850s and over the years sold
lots to these people . Mr . Fabbroni stated that the Ithaca Land Company was
bankrupt in 1896 and Morse Chain came in 1906 . Mr . Fabbroni commented that
it seemed pretty clear that the Court probably required the recording of
this subdivision plan in 1895 in order to proceed with the bankruptcy .
Mr . Fabbroni stated that some of the history of the people in this
neighborhood goes back four and five generations . Mr . Fabbroni commented
that , when we think of Ithaca , some of us are native , but unlike this area
most are new people . Mr . Fabbroni reiterated that this area has an
interesting history , adding that most of the people are all related and
there are also families that have been 50 years in the same neighborhood .
Mrs . Schultz interjected that the abstract on her property dates from
around 1862 . Mr . Fabbroni commented that , in the City he would compare it
to the West End of Downtown , and not to Collegetown or Fall Creek or some
uninterested absentee landlord situation . Mr . Fabbroni stated that in this
area that is clearly not the case , noting that most of the people that have
come in with these plans live there and most live across the street from
what they have developed . Mr . Fabbroni stated that it is a quite unique
situation as far as the Town goes .
Indicating on a tax map , Mr . Fabbroni commented that it would be his
suggestion that the Planning Board ' s time would be much better spent in
Odealing with the Ithaca Land Company paper streets , in land use terms . Mr .
Fabbroni noted that Therm has bought large numbers of lots as they became
available ; Hilker bought as they became available and this was followed by
Planning Board 9 April 2 , 1985
• a big swap resulting in a largely light industrial use now . Mr . Fabbroni
stated that that use is an important consideration , adding that the people
in the neighborhood are backing right up to a light industrial use . Mr .
Fabbroni noted that , also , there is a major educational institution there
and these people are sandwiched in between the two . Mr . Fabbroni mused
that if one were going to map out zones that are compatible , he would think
one would find it a question to zone this single family now .
Again referring to the tax map , Mr . Fabbroni discused a proposal made
some years ago having to do with the extension of Pennsylvania Avenue
which , he commented , had about a 50 / 50 split for and against . Mr . Fabbroni
noted that the most affected properties were Mr . Martin ' s and also the
Schultzes . Mr . Fabbroni mentioned also that it would be well to keep in
mind that someday Juniper Drive might be extended . Indicating on the map ,
Mr . Fabbroni described future mapping which could take place for Kendall
Avenue , noting it going through a lot . Mr . Fabbroni also talked about
Pennsylvania Avenue going south onto a land - locked area . Mr . Fabbroni
stated that he had not been expecting to meet on this tonight and
apologized for not being better prepared and better able to speak to land
use matters . Continuing , Mr . Fabbroni talked about a cul de sac situation
which he described using the map . Referring to the multiple consolidation
of lots , Mr . Fabbroni stated these have almost eliminated the need for
Maryland Avenue - - a paper street . Mr . Fabbroni commented that the concern
could be a mild version of the Hatfields and the McCoys , adding that some
of the historic complainers have actually gained because , otherwise , they
would have had a road in the front and a road in the back of them . Mr .
• Fabbroni commented that Mrs . Schultz probably hit upon the matter of the
visible perception of density , given the parking on the streets , adding
that in some areas we have worse problems where we have hills . Mr .
Fabbroni suggested that , as to the land use situation , he would like to see
some discussion around the table .
Chairiman May stated that , certainly , the intent was not to put Mr .
Fabbroni on the spot . Mr . Fabbroni responded that he was not complaining ,
just apologizing for an unpolished presentation .
Chairman May stated to the Board members that he wanted everybody to
drive up and take a look at the Pennsylvania / Kendall Avenues neighborhood ,
adding that he , personally , learned an awful lot tonight .
Mr . Stanton stated that he was concerned about the Supervisor ' s
letter , adding that there was almost a sound to it that the Town ought to
pass the students on to the City . Mr . Stanton stated that it seemed to him
that if we are going to have institutions such as we have in Cornell
University and Ithaca College , we have to accept our responsibilities to
students . Chairman May stated that he did not read that into the memo at
all . Mr . Stanton responded that he recognized his sensitivity .
Chairman May stated that Mr . Fabbroni had brought up a lot of very
good points which he thought should be discussed .
Mr . Fabbroni stated that the so -called " amended zoning ordinance "
* deals with all these questions , noting that - - where parking occurs , how
much is required , what constitutes a family - - are all detailed . Chairman
Planning Board 10 April 2 , 1985
• May described briefly the earlier discussion this evening by the Board ,
just prior to Mr . Fabbroni ' s arrival , about doing individual amendments to
the existing ordinance . Mr . Fabbroni indicated that he would encourage
that and proceeded to describe how , without such regulations in the present
ordinance , the Iacovelli Appeal several years ago , which Mr . Mazza handled ,
was bounced back and forth and back and forth until finally the Zoning
Board of Appeals spoke to the matter . Mr . Fabbroni also reminded the Board
members of the now famous " Section 71 " of the proposed ordinance which
referred to increased occupany / special permits / special exceptions .
Mrs . Schultz commented that the people who live on this street
[ Pennsylvania ] are used to living on a dead - end street and even if one car
goes by , they know it goes by .
Mrs . Grigorov commented that , to her , the land use question is a
question of how much a zoning ordinance can protect neighborhoods from
change .
It being time for the 8 : 45 p . m . Public Hearing , Chairman May asked the
Board members to , please , go up there and look it over .
PUBLIC HEARING : CONSIDERATION OF FINAL SUBDIVISION APPROVAL FOR A 32 - UNIT
CLUSTERED SUBDIVISION COMPRISED OF 8 STRUCTURES CONTAINING 4 UNITS EACH , AT
1018 - 1020 DANBY ROAD , TOWN OF ITHACA TAX PARCELS NO . 39 - 1 - 5 and 39 - 1 - 6
( PORTION ) , DELL GROVER ET AL , OWNER / DEVELOPER ,
Chairman May declared the Public Hearing in the above - noted matter
duly opened at 8 : 45 p . m . and read aloud from the Notice of Public Hearings
as posted and published and as noted above , and accepted for the record the
Clerk ' s Affidavit of Posting and Publication of such Notice in Town Hall
and the Ithaca Journal on March 25 , 1985 and March 28 , 1985 , respectively ,
together with the Secretary ' s Affidavit of Service by Mail of said Notice
upon the various neighbors of the subject property and upon the Tompkins
County Commissioner of Planning on March 27 , 1985 . Messrs . Grover , Mazza
and Flumerfelt were present . Mr . Mazza stepped away from the Planning
Board table .
Mr . Mazza stated that the matter before the Board has to do with the
Grover property on the Danby Road out past Ithaca College and NCR on the
right hand side as one is going out . Mr . Mazza noted that on this property
is the residence of Bill Grover and another structure which they call the
" blue house " which is to be removed , a roadside stand to be removed , and a
barn to be removed . Mr . Mazza presented a topo map and a Progress Plan map
dated April 2 , 1985 , showing the subdivision plan .
Utilizing the drawings which he appended to the bulletin board , Mr .
Mazza described the proposed 32 units in 8 buildings . Mr . Mazza described
the areas to be owned by the homeowners and the areas to be owned by the
homeowners ' association .
Mr . Stanton wondered how big " those " little lots are - - indicating on
• the drawing . Mr . Mazza stated that they vary from 26 ' to 29 ' by 75 ' .
Planning Board 11 April 2 , 1985
Mr . Mazza showed on the plan , those units that are going to have a
• garage on their lowest level and their two levels above that . Mr . Mazza
spoke of these as units " C " and " D " , further describing them as varying
only from " A " and " B " in that the bedrooms are on the top floor where the
others have their living room and dining room on the top floor . Mr . Mazza
pointed out that the buildings are oriented to the northwest . Mr . Mazza
indicated the units that are going to have garages in the back . Mr . Mazza
explained that the reason they are different is that they want to limit the
amount of driveway space that will exist , and pointed out that one driveway
would , thus , service two units . Mr . Mazza stated that the proposed units
contain 1 , 280 square feet of living space excluding the garage - - about
1 , 500 square feet with the garage . Mr . Mazza described how the various
units will have some outside patio areas and also some decks . Mr . Mazza
stated that they are trying to make the units as private as they can . Mr .
Mazza described a fence barrier or a shrubbery barrier between two patios
where they come together .
Mr . Mazza stated that they are in the process of re - drafting some of
the by - laws and covenants for the homeowners ' association , commenting that
a draft had been submitted to the Planning Office . Mr . Mazza stated that
these are very similar to Commonland in structure with one major
difference , and pointed out that , in Commonland , they wanted to restrict
themselves to a period of time of 12 months or 24 months with respect to
rentals . Mr . Mazza stated that they did not want to restrict themselves or
the future homeowners to doing that . Mr . Mazza stated that they think
there is quite a difference between Commonland and their development and
• the difference is that they intend to be hitting a different market for
these homes , adding that they are planning on marketing them at a price
substantially higher than the Commonland market . Mr . Mazza stated that ,
also , here in this development they have 32 lots instead of 124 as in
Commonland . Mr . Mazza pointed out that , also , they are at about 800 of the
density that they could have , noting that all of their land is usable . Mr .
Mazza stated that they would agree to restrict to one person per bedroom ,
and , where it shows " study " here [ indicating on the drawing ] , understanding
that that could be a bedroom , so that most of the units would be three -
bedroom units , therefore , three unrelated people , or a family , would be
acceptable . Mr . Mazza stated that this is no different from the existing
zoning Ordinance regulations anyway , being the same as single family
housing in this area .
Mr . Mazza showed a drawing of the southeast elevation and the
southwest elevation , and , showed the view toward the Lake . Mr . Mazza
commented that the only variation to these elevation plans would be ,
perhaps , skylights in the southeast elevation . Mr . Mazza stated that Mr .
Flumerfelt will speak to drainage and water and sewer mains which remain
essentially as shown on the preliminary plan the Board saw in February .
Mr . Flumerfelt showed the topo map which , he stated , will have the
improvement plans on it . Mr . Flumerfelt pointed out that a telephone pole
has been moved 5 or 6 feet to the north , indicated the 8 - inch water main
and the location of one hydrant and the location of an additional hydrant ,
• and commented that that will provide a closer service to particular units
which he indicated on the drawing . Mr . Flumerfelt stated that there will
be service to each unit , adding that they feel that the sewer service can
Planning Board 12 April 2 , 1985
• be done by gravity flow with careful planning . Mr . Flumerfelt pointed out
on the drawing how the sewer laterals will tie into the existing 8 - inch
sanitary sewer . Mr . Flumerfelt pointed out on the drawing a ten - foot
easement on the side of the cul de sac for underground facilities , for
example , television , telephone , etc . Mr . Flumerfelt stated that they have
contacted the New York State Department of Transportation and as long as
the sight distance is good they do not object to having a separate driveway
for the four front units . Mr . Flumberfelt pointed out on the drawing how
the other driveway will serve the other 28 units .
Mr . Fabbroni asked Mr . Flumerfelt if he would speak a little further
on drainage . Mr . Flumerfelt stated that there are no defined drainage
swales or gullies on the site , and added that the drainage will be
collected by means of a ditch . Utilizing the drawing , Mr . Flumerfelt
described this process , and noted that they will keep the water in its
original location and disperse it over as wide an area as possible . Mr .
Fabbroni wondered about the situation in the area of Cluster " 2 " and
Cluster " 8 " . Mr . Flumerfelt stated that by the final grading drainage can
stay in its former location .
Mr . Fabbroni asked that the developer speak to the landscaping plans .
Mr . Mazza stated that they have contacted several landscapers asking them
to send proposals . Mr . Mazza stated that they have just received a
response from one which they will probably accept , however , he cannot speak
to the names of the trees and shrubs , etc . , since they are all in Latin .
Mr . Mazza stated that he could tell Mr . Fabbroni about their intentions
generally at this time , and speak to the specifics later . Mr . Mazza stated
that they intend that most of their plantings , other than grass , be near to
the buildings themselves and be low growing trees and shrubs . Mr . Mazza
stated that they do not want a lot of tall trees because one of the best
things about this development site is the spectacular views . Mr . Mazza
commented that his idea would be to have flowering trees and evergreens
centered around the units themselves .
Chairman May asked about lighting and accommodations for garbage . Mr .
Mazza responded that , with each unit having its own garage , garbage would
be taken care of within each unit ; there will be no dumpsters . Mr . Mazza
stated that there will be no area lighting , however , there will be the
usual home lighting such as over the porches and over the doorways . Mr .
Fabbroni commented that probably a light on the corner where the cul de sac
meets Danby Road would be installed as part of Townwide lighting .
Chairman May asked if there were anyone present who wished to speak to
the matter before the Board .
Mrs . Herbert Monkemeyer , 1058 Danby Road , spoke from the floor and
asked if the sewer system that is in there will be able to take care of
this development . Mr . Mazza responded , yes , and indicated on the drawings
the existing sewer main and where it runs . Chairman May noted that there
is a Town 8 " sewer main in place and the connection will pick up from that .
Mr . Mazza pointed out that there is also Town water .
•
Planning Board 13 April 2 , 1985
• - Mr . Mazza announced that they have chosen a name for their development
Cayuga Vista , The Board members indicated that that was a very nice
name .
Mr . Stanton wondered if it would be possible that one person could own
32 units , live in one , and rent 31 . Mr . Mazza replied that he supposed
that could be possible , however , he really did not think that is going to
happen . Mr . Mazza stated that each of the units is a totally separate
unit , they will not be inexpensive ; and they do not really believe people
would buy them to rent out .
Referring to the proposed covenants , Mr . Lovi described how they were
very similar to Commonland , commenting that that is why he did not have
copies made of the large document to be mailed to each of the Board
members . Mr . Lovi commented that the name , Commonland , had been " whited
out " and Cayuga Vista typed into the Commonland covenants . Mr . Lovi stated
that he would like to point out that the proposed Cayuga Vista covenants
are different from Commonland in that there are no " neighborhoods " and also
there are no separate garage structures .
Chairman May asked Mr . Mazza if they were planning to sell the
individual properties in fee simple . Mr . Mazza responded , yes , and added
that in addition to that each owner will have an undivided interest in the
open areas .
Mr . Lovi stated that the difference between Commonland and Cayuga
• Vista is that the Cayuga Vista developers would prefer not be have the
restrictions on occupancy , adding that that is a matter of the Board
agreeing or not . Mr . Lovi stated that the Town Board will review the
covenants . Chairman May stated that the covenants have to come before the
Planning Board for a recommendation . Chairman May asked Mr . Mazza what his
schedule was and when he thought he could have the covenants and by - laws
for the Planning Board members to review . Mr . Mazza stated that he had
submitted them in preliminary form . Mr . Lovi stated that the Town Board
has scheduled a Public Hearing on the covenants and by - laws for April 8th
and , since they are just like Commonland , he suggested to Mr . Mazza a cut
sheet as an attachment showing the few changes .
Mr . Mazza listed the following as the differences between the
Commonland covenants and the Cayuga Vista covenants - - ( 1 ) the exclusion of
the portion on rentals which was in Commonland , i . e . , no restriction on
rentals such as Commonland has ; ( 2 ) three unrelated persons in each unit ,
or a family , which would be a restriction on occupancy the same as in
Commonland . Mr . Lovi pointed out that there was a difference in the
Commonland occupancy restrictions because of there being one - , two - , and
three -bedroom units and , because it was felt that with 124 units the
allowance of three unrelated persons as is permitted in single family
homes , would be somewhat out of character with the community , so , the
one -bedroom units in Commonland were restricted to two unrelated persons
and the two - and three -bedroom units were permitted the three unrelated
persons . Mr . Lovi noted again that in the case of Cayuga Vista there are
• no one -bedroom units being constructed .
Planning Board 14 April 2 , 1985
Chairman May asked Mr . Mazza when he needed to have his project in
• order . Mr . Mazza responded , as soon as possible , adding that they have to
go to the Town Board yet , financing arrangements need to be worked on ,
selecting of contractors is ahead , and so there are a lot of things to get
in place . Mr . Klein wondered what the projected market price was . Mr .
Mazza stated that it may vary but it will be around $ 80 , 000 . 00 . Mr . Lovi
asked if Mr . Mazza could speak to the interior and exterior of the proposed
buildings .
Mr . Timothy Buhl , the designer , stated that he could speak briefly on
this aspect , allowing as how those plans were still somewhat in the
preliminary stage . Mr . Buhl spoke of cedar siding and maybe asphalt , wall
to wall carpeting , sheet rock , vinyl flooring , some tile , and cedar inside .
Chairman May commented that Mr . Mazza did not intend to start
construction before the Homeowners ' Agreement is in place . Mr . Mazza
responded , no . Chairman May suggested to Mr . Mazza that he could finish up
the landscaping and put it on the plans along with those other items which
had been discussed . Mr . Mazza indicated all the information which was on
each of the plans on the bulletin board . Mr . Mazza spoke of the size of
the deck and other matters .
Mr . Klein stated that he agreed with Chairman May that the Board
should have a landscaping plan and some opportunity to look at the proposed
covenants . Mr . Klein noted that none of the driveways were shown on the
site plan . Mr . Mazza pointed out the drawing on which the driveways were
• indicated . Mr . Fabbroni stated that a lot of that kind of information
needs to be put on one final subdivision plat drawing . Mr . Fabbroni stated
that there should also be metes and bounds shown for what will be the " new "
parcel for Mr . Grover ' s house - - 1020 Danby Road . Mr . Fabbroni stated that
the drawing should also be stamped by a surveyor . Mr . Stanton , speaking of
one - car garages , stated that he thought the Board should see where the
other cars will go . Mr . Fabbroni suggested that , as far as utilities and
roads go , it would be fine to have that information on a separate plan .
Mr . Fabbroni stated that driveways should be on one physical feature map ,
adding that someone who buys a lot should be able to see how he gets to his
lot . Mr . Klein commented that there should be a separate drawing for the
landscaping plan . Mr . Mazza stated that Phase 1 [ Clusters 1 and 2 ] would
be done this year and indicated that that would include that part of the
landscaping . Mr . Lovi asked that Mr . Mazza give the Board a plan and then
a phasing plan .
Chairman May asked that Mr . Mazza give the Board the material as it
had been discussed and stated that the Board would see him at its next
meeting . Mr . Lovi pointed out that if the Planning Board were to review
the covenants at its April 16th meeting or at its first meeting in May , the
Town Board may not get to it before May or even June . Mr . Lovi suggested
that if the Minutes of tonight ' s meeting could show that the Planning Board
could live with the covenants that are not different from what it has seen
before , perhaps that would be sufficient for the Town Board for its April
8th meeting . Chairman May asked if the Town Board were going to set the
• Public Hearing on the covenants at its April 8th meeting . Mr . Lovi
responded , no , the Public Hearing date was set at its March meeting and the
Public Hearing itself is on Monday .
Planning Board 15 April 2 , 1985
Mr . Mazza commented that he would like to say , in his own defense ,
• that he did bring the covenants and by - laws over to the Planning Office
last week . Mr . Mazza stated that he really did not want to get into a
month and a half delay . Chairman May noted that the Board did not even
have a summary , only a verbal discussion .
Mr . Fabbroni asked Chairman May if the Board were going to be meeting
in two weeks . Chairman May responded that it certainly could . Mr .
Fabbroni suggested that the Town Board could begin their review , adding
that he did not see how they could finish their review at that meeting on
Monday . Mr . Fabbroni stated that there could be a simultaneous review as
long as the Planning Board understood it . Mr . Mazza stated that he was
somewhat confused because he had the impression , based on his discussions ,
that the Town Board was going to act on the covenants and by - laws on
Monday .
Mrs . Grigorov offered that the Planning Board could speak to the
rental aspect and the occupancy because , as she understood what had been
discussed , those were the only differences . Both Mr . Lovi and Mr . Mazza
stated that that was correct , those were the only differences .
MOTION by Mrs . Carolyn Grigorov , seconded by Mr . Bernard Stanton *
WHEREAS , the Town of Ithaca Planning Board has not had an opportunity
to review the proposed Restrictive Covenants and By -Laws with respect to
the Grover / Mazza proposed 32 - unit Clustered Subdivision to be known as
• Cayuga Vista , however , said Planning Board has been advised by the Town
Staff that the only substantive differences between such proposed Covenants
and By - Laws for said Cayuga Vista and those of the Commonland Community
124 - unit Clustered Subdivision as they were approved previously , are :
1 . The provisions for rental and restrictions on the number of unrelated
persons who may be permitted to occupy the dwelling units have not
been included in the Cayuga Vista Covenants , it being that those
restrictions would not be appropriate in this case because Cayuga
Vista will contain no one -bedroom units , and
2 . There are no proposed restrictions on the number of months for which a
given unit may be rented by an owner or the developer , and
3 . The concept of neighborhoods , as established in the governing
regulations and by - laws of Commonland Community , has not been
developed for Cayuga Vista , thus , all references to neighborhoods have
been deleted , and
4 . As a result of these differences between the Restrictive Covenants and
By -Laws of Commonland Community and those proposed for Cayuga Vista ,
there have been grammatical , non - substantive , and other similar
changes , made to the language of the Commonland Community Restrictive
Covenants and By -Laws where appropriate , such as changing the number
of Boards of Directors and the manner in which those Boards would be
• constituted ;
Planning Board 16 April 2 , 1985
NOW , THEREFORE , IT IS RESOLVED , that the Planning Board considers
• these changes to be reasonable and recommends favorable consideration of
the proposed Cayuga Vista Restrictive Covenants and By -Laws by the Town
Board .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote .
Aye - May , Schultz , Baker , Klein , Stanton , Grigorov ®
Nay - None .
No Vote - Mazza .
The MOTION was declared to be carried .
MOTION by Mr . Montgomery May , seconded by Mr . James Baker :
RESOLVED , that the Public Hearing in the matter of the proposed Cayuga
Vista 32 - unit clustered subdivision on Danby Road be and hereby is
adjourned until Tuesday , April 16 , 1985 , at 7 : 30 p . m .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote .
Aye - May , Schultz , Baker , Klein , Stanton , Grigorov .
Nay - None .
No Vote - Mazza .
• The MOTION was declared to be carried .
Chairman May declared the Public Hearing in the matter of Final
Subdivision Approval for the Grover / Mazza 32 -unit clustered subdivision
proposal duly adjourned at 10 : 00 p . m .
[ Secretary ' s Note : Mrs . Grigorov was not feeling well and asked
permission of the Chair to be excused ; Chairman May granted such
permission . A Quorum remained present . ]
PUBLIC HEARING : SITE PLAN REVIEW FOR A MEDICAL OFFICE ON THE GROUNDS OF
THE TOMPKINS COMMUNITY HOSPITAL . TOWN OF ITHACA TAX PARCEL 24 - 3 - 2 . 1 ,
BONNIE HOWELL , REPRESENTATIVE .
Chairman May declared the Public Hearing in the above - noted matter
duly opened at 10 : 01 p . m . and accepted for the record the Clerk ' s Affidavit
of Posting and Publication of the Notice of Public Hearings in Town Hall
and the Ithaca Journal on March 25 , 1985 and March 28 , 1985 , respectively .
Mr . Scott Perra , Assistant Director of Fiscal Services , Tompkins Community
Hospital , and Mr . Lawrence Hoffman , Architect , were present . Mr . Perra
stated that Mrs . Howell was unable to be at the meeting this evening .
Mr . Hoffman , commenting that the Board would recall that at its
previous meeting he had presented two sites for the proposed medical office
and also , as the members knew , negotiations are on - going and still taking
place with the County in regard to purchasing County land , and , because
* they wanted to be here at this meeting and time is very critical , they were
proposing the medical office building on land which is currently owned by
the Tompkins Community Hospital , Mr . Hoffman pointed out the architect ' s
Planning Board 17 April 2 , 1985
• rendering of the proposed building and noted the third floor , stating that
they will be requesting a variance to permit a three - story building . Mr .
Hoffman noted the footprint of the building of 12 , 000 square feet and
stated that the inside of the proposed building will contain around 32 , 000
square feet . Utilizing a drawing entitled " Proposed Professional Building
Tompkins Community Hospital " , Mr . Hoffman described what he termed a
" plaza " , pointed out both proposed and existing parking , and described the
circulation scheme which , he noted , divorces the proposed building ' s
circulation from the Hospital and the Emergency entrance . Mr . Hoffman
noted the two - storied part of the proposed addition where it abuts the
Hospital at the departments of radiology and physical / occupational therapy .
Mr . Hoffman commented that the three - storied portion will be similar in
size to the three - storied portion of the Hospital . Mr . Hoffman described
the " T - shaped " portion of the building and pointed out a second - floor
overhang . Mr . Hoffman indicated that it was anticipated that the building
will house from ten to twelve practices , and noted that medical " clinics "
are permitted under the Zoning Ordinance by approval of the Board of
Appeals , commenting again that a couple of variances will also be needed .
Mr . Stanton stated that the area where the parking is proposed appears
to be very dense , and wondered how much more parking there is going to be .
Mr . Hoffman stated that it is dense because of there being both employee
and staff parking , adding that there will be an addition of about 60
parking spaces . Mr . Klein wondered how many spaces were required under the
zoning ordinance . Mr . Lovi read from Section 69 , paragraph # 3 , of the
Ordinance as follows : " Parking Facilities . . . Medical clinic - 4 spaces for
• each doctor , or for each office in which a medically - trained person is
regularly in attendance , whichever figure is larger . " Discussion followed
with respect to parking and access , during which Mr . Hoffman indicated that
there would be an insistence on the part of the Hospital to ensure that
parking would be in the back staff / employee parking lot .
Mr . Perra stated that the Hospital is committed to working with the
Town to develop whatever needs to be developed to have good access .
Chairman May asked if Mr . Perra understood the matter of the proposed road
that the Town has recommended in connection with the proposed building
construction . Mr . Perra responded , yes , adding , the Board has discussed
it . Chairman May asked Mr . Perra if he knew if they had talked about a
$ 25 , 000 escrow commitment . Mr . Perra responded , yes .
Turning to the Long Environmental Assessment Form , as signed and
submitted by Lawrence Hoffman , Architect , under date of March 24 , 1985 , a
copy of which each of the Board members had received with his / her Agenda ,
and which had been reviewed by the Town Planner under date of March 28 ,
1985 . Chairman May read Mr . Lovi ' s recommendation as follows : " Reviewer ' s
Recommendations ; Type of Action : Type I . The project , as presented
should create no adverse environmental impacts which will not be
satisfactorily mitigated . The major project impact is the provision of
adequate traffic circulation around the hospital site . Acceptance of the
Town ' s recommended access plan and the commitment of $ 25 , 000 toward its
construction will be sufficient for the acceptable mitigation of this
• impact . If such a commitment is made in a form acceptable to the Town
Attorney , then I recommend a negative declaration . " Chairman May asked if
_Planning Board 18 April 2 , 1985
• there were any comments , any questions , or any disagreements , There were
none stated .
MOTION by Mr . Edward Mazza , seconded by Mrs . Barbara Schultz :
RESOLVED , that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board make and hereby does
make a negative declaration of environmental significance with respect to
the proposed construction of a medical office building adjacent to the
Tompkins Community Hospital , with the understanding that there be
acceptance by the Tompkins Community Hospital of the Town ' s recommended
access plan and the commitment , in a form acceptable to the Town Attorney ,
of $ 25 , 000 toward its construction .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote .
Aye - May , Schultz , Baker , Klein , Stanton , Mazza .
Nay - None ,
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously .
Mr . Fabbroni stated that he would like to have discussed the Town ' s
recommendation to the Hospital based on what was talked about at the last
meeting [ March 19 , 19851 . Mr . Fabbroni proceeded to draw on the proposed
site plan on the bulletin board the Route 96 alternatives and stated that
about eight years ago the Tompkins County Hospital endorsed what he termed ,
the " R- 11 Town Scheme " . Mr . Fabbroni noted that there is also an
alternative called the " R- 11 Town Scheme Modified " which took the nurses '
buildings . Mr . Fabbroni drew on the plan the proposed access road for
Route 96 . Utilizing the map , Mr . Fabbroni recalled for those present the
" Lake Shore West " concept and the road proposals with respect to that
project . Mr . Fabbroni pointed out how a proposed access road would serve
the Tompkins County Professional Building Corp . complex and spoke of a
land - locked parcel in back of it . Mr . Fabbroni reiterated , utilizing the
drawing , that this is the access spoken of in connection with the $ 25 , 000
escrow account as had been established in connection with the expansion of
the Professional Building complex .
Continuing , Mr . Fabbroni pointed out and spoke about " this " long road
around to the employee / staff parking area and the development of a
driveway , stating that such was a proposed driveway that should be built by
the Hospital and should be a part of the proposal . Mr . Fabbroni commented
that , also from a fire protection point of view , as was spoken to by Mrs .
Howell previously , this should be a part of the proposal . Mr . Fabbroni
stated that essentially the Town was saying that it would want to see three
things as a part of this proposal - - ( 1 ) the Hospital would not stand in
the way of the Route 96 realignment south of the Hospital ; ( 2 ) the Hospital
would accept the off - ramp concept from the new highway ; and ( 3 ) a
commitment to the access road as noted in the EAF .
Mr . Perra , commenting that Mr . Fabbroni had spoken of a lot of
concepts , stated that he was not sure this was tied in with this building .
Mr . Perra stated that he could not speak for the Hospital Board about this ,
adding that the Hospital may not want to go with this " driveway " because of
future expansion . Chairman May stated that the " driveway " was not
r
.Planning Board 19 April 2 , 1985
• something that could not be undone , but , there are other things of
importance in its connection , such as fire protection .
Mr . Lovi stated that the proposed building is taking out a good deal
of parking and , although there could be that insistence that staff park
over in that area , nonetheless , the route is quite long and winding all
around toward the back . Mr . Hoffman pointed out where this " driveway " was
in connection with the patient wings and expressed his concern about noise
and fumes . Mr . Hoffman spoke about what would happen if Route 96 does go
through and described a major shift in parking . Mr . Klein wondered if a
wait and see " attitude could not be taken . Discussion followed about
parking all over the place and usage of Indian Creek Road . Utilizing two ,
blue , 8 , " x 14 " portions of the aerial photo showing the proposed medical
office building and the Hospital and the buildings and homes in the area
and showing Route 96 , upon each of which he had drawn the situation with
respect to existing Route 96 and with respect to a realigned Route 96 , Mr .
Lovi described the various parking locations , the various circulation
patterns , and related them to the Tompkins County Professional Building
Corp . also .
Mr . Fabbroni stated that , as we have discussed this matter over the
last five years , there is no incentive for anyone to address a logical plan
of access - - if not now , probably never . Mr . Fabbroni stated that he
thought it fair to say that there has been a lot of talk and very little
agreement on a lot of these things about which he had just spoken .
Utilizing the drawing , Mr . Fabbroni stated that the Town was talking about
• " this " access road and " that " driveway as almost inherent as a part of the
building the Hospital was proposing , adding that it is a matter of Route 96
and how one deals with Route 96 . Mr . Fabbroni suggested that the Hospital
would be better off showing a positive attitude toward the off - ramp and
recalled what Mr . Klein had stated in terms of adopting a " wait and see
attitude " , and commented that in the same vein that we do not know what is
going to happen with the Biggs Complex , we do not know what will happen
with Route 96 , however , with certain approaches in place , the better it
would be for all concerned including the NYSDOT .
Mr . Lovi suggested that the backside of the parking lot could be
closed off and referred again to the blue aerials . Mr . Mazza stated that
it seemed to him that the Board was making them put in a road that they do
not want and making them provide another access when they already have an
access the other way for other landowners . Mr . Fabbroni offered the
thought that if that road is built , " you " are asking for a lot of problems .
Mr . Stanton commented that he felt he should apologize for stating it ,
but he was sitting here thinking that this building would not ever be
built . Mr . Hoffman expressed surprise and responded that it was going to
be built either on this site or on County land should that be obtained ,
therefore , there was a 50 % chance of it being on this site . Mr . Perra
noted that the County Board is meeting on the matter almost concurrently
with these discussions .
Mrs . Schultz offered that if the Planning Board does not approve this
site tonight and tomorrow night the County says , yes , we are going to sell
some of the old Hospital lands to the Hospital , the site could be changed
Planning Board 20 April 2 , 1985
• and the matter reheard . Mr . Perra stated that he wished to note that the
site need not be changed , adding that he did not want to lose sight of the
need to get this approved tonight . Mr . Hoffman stated that this is the
preferred location in terms of where it connects with the Hospital . Mr .
Hoffman commented that he thought he was hearing it being said that " this
road " is necessary [ indicating ] to the Town wherever this proposed building
goes . Mr . Fabbroni recounted the history of the " off - ramp " discussions as
they had taken place and as he had mentioned at the last meeting , and how ,
upon the submission of the Hospital ' s consultant ' s report , it had gone out
the window . Mr . Fabbroni commented that he was pleased , now , to hear
something positive on the access road . Mr . Fabbroni commented that he felt
uncomfortable with the proposal to eliminate parking and stick it all in
the back and with all of the unknowns with the Biggs Complex . Mr . Klein
commented that the road seems like a good idea , but if the Hospital should
own it and buy it that is their problem . Mr . Klein stated that his
feeling , from a site plan and from an environmental viewpoint , it would be
nice not to do it . Mr . Klein stated that he would rather take a wait and
see attitude and wondered if some language could be set down so that the
Board could do it that way .
Chairman May expressed his concern about emergency vehicles , fire
protection , and spoke of the heliport also . Mr . Perra stated that the
matter of fire protection has been okayed and added that the heliport is
not used that way .
Mr . Fabbroni spoke of contrary movement in some detail , concluding
• that the road about which he had been speaking for some time needs to be
built in - - at this point - - with this plan . Mr . Fabbroni commented
further that if anyone else , other than the Hospital , controls the Biggs
Complex , it is going to be a problem , whether it is office use , apartment
use , nursing home use - - whatever . Mr . Fabbroni stated that there is going
to be enough activity circling this building whatever occurs , adding that
" you " are not going to want that kind of throttled circulation plan , and
commenting that the County does not want to deal with the circulation plan .
Mr . Lovi read aloud the following proposed resolution :
" WHEREAS the Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca has reviewed a
preliminary site plan for a medical office building to be built adjacent to
the existing Tompkins Community Hospital and makes the following findings
1 . The proposed location is suitable for the proposed structure and use
as the medical facilities to be offered will augment and complement
the services presently available in our community .
2 . The location of this medical office adjacent to the Tompkins Community
Hospital will facilitate the convenient use of these services by the
public .
3 . Traffic circulation around the site will be improved by the proposed
circulation and parking plan .
•
Planning Board 21 April 2 , 1985
• 4 . The Board of Directors of the former Tompkins County Hospital is on
record as unanimously supporting the " R- 11 Town Scheme " option for
Route 96 .
5 . An Environmental Assessment Form as been reviewed and a determination
of negative significance has been made .
THEREFORE IT IS RESOLVED that the Planning Board grant and hereby does
grant preliminary site plan approval subject to the following terms and
conditions .
1 . That the Tompkins Community Hospital prepare a $ 25 , 000 escrow account
in a form and manner satisfactory to the Town Engineer and Town
Attorney for the construction of an alternate access road west of the
existing upper tier of parking to serve this project with a connecting
drive . Terms of said agreement to be completed with the developer and
the Town Board prior to any construction of the proposed medical
addition . Such an agreement should include land for the access road
and the Hospital proper .
2 . That the Hospital agree to construct a driveway from the existing
parking lot to the proposed staff parking lot on the northeast side of
the Hospital .
3 . If and when Route 96 is relocated , the Community Hospital Board will
• abide by the 1977 endorsements of the then Hospital Board and Board
Buildings and Grounds Committee of an alignment for Route 96 so called
the R- 11 Town Scheme . This scheme could impact the existing visitor
parking lot access drive as well as the southwest corner of the
visitor parking lot ( resulting in the loss of approximately 40 apaces )
if this alternative is chosen by NYSDOT .
4 . The Hospital Board will endorse an off only ramp to the existing
visitor parking lot .
5 . After fair compensation by the NYSDOT for the 40 ± spaces estimated to
be removed by the R- 11 scheme , the Hospital will take steps as
necessary to provide alternative local access drives to improve area
circulation , including a new access drive north of the Administrator ' s
home to the visitor parking lot . "
A lengthy discussion followed the reading of the above - noted proposed
resolution . Mr . Hoffman wondered if the resolution were passed as it is ,
what does that mean to the Hospital , and asked if , by going ahead and
building this building , have they agreed to this and to build roads in the
future .
Mr . Fabbroni explained that ( 1 ) they will accept the original proposal
with respect to Route 96 as endorsed by the Tompkins County Hospital ; ( 2 )
they will accept and endorse the off - ramp concept ; ( 3 ) if the existing
drive is taken away , they would be compensated for the taking . Mr .
* Fabbroni suggested that , perhaps , number 3 does not have to be said . Mr .
Fabbroni stated that , up to this point , there has been no acceptance of
what was said back when the Hospital was being constructed or of the
Planning Board 22 April 2 , 1985
• off - ramp concept . Mr . Mazza commented that the State does not have to have
Hospital acceptance of the road . Mr . Fabbroni pointed out that there will
be a large lobbying effort . Mr . Mazza stated that he could see Mr .
Fabbroni ' s point as to how this may relate to parking , but he did not see
how the Route 96 issue relates to this wing . Mr . Fabbroni stated that it
will come up . Chairman May expressed his agreement with Mr . Fabbroni and
commented that he [ Fabbroni ] had been very honest with the Board in
indicating what was ahead , adding that this kind of resolution will put the
issue to bed now . Mr . Mazza stated that he could understand that , but he
was not sure the Board should jeopardize this project .
Mr . Stanton stated that he was comfortable with Condition # 1 and he
was uncomfortable with Condition # 2 , adding that he understood what Mr .
Fabbroni was saying . Mr . Fabbroni commented that he had tried to explain
the matter of dual access and proceeded to reiterate some of his points of
concern .
Chairman May stated that he really supported Condition # 2 , however , he
would compromise and say that the Planning Board " strongly recommends " that
this driveway be built and would leave Conditions 1 , 3 , 4 , and 5 . Mr .
Mazza stated that he was leary about Route 96 being in there for fear it
will kill this whole project . Mr . Fabbroni pointed out that he was saying
that if the State winds up supporting the R- 11 scheme , then the Hospital
would go along with it . Mr . Fabbroni stated that he , himself , did not
think Condition # 5 was needed .
Mrs . Schultz suggested that perhaps it would be in order to adopt this
proposed resolution in some form , maybe more or less definitive , in order
that there be something in place for the Hospital Board to discuss and
react to , or even accept it , or part of it and offer alternatives .
MOTION by Mr . Montgomery May , seconded by Mrs . Barbara Schultz :
RESOLVED , that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board grant and hereby does
grant Preliminary Site Plan Approval as heretofore written and read with
one additional condition , being that the Zoning Board of Appeals grant
Special Approval and appropriate variances .
By way of discussion , Mr . Stanton stated that that was a stronger
statement than what he would agree to . Mrs . Schultz reiterated what she
had suggested which was , among other things , that she was saying that this
would give the Hospital Board something to react to .
MOTION TO AMEND by Mr . Edward Mazza , seconded by Mr . Bernard Stanton *
RESOLVED , that the MOTION on the floor be amended such that the
sentence reading " THEREFORE IT IS RESOLVED that the Planning Board grant
and hereby does grant preliminary site plan approval subject to the
following terms and conditions : " should be taken out and in its place
should be put - - " THEREFORE , IT IS RESOLVED , that the Planning Board grant
and hereby does grant Preliminary Site Plan Approval subject to terms and
• conditions such as the terms and conditions set forth in # 1 through # 5
below as may be required by this Board upon final site plan review . "
' � Planning Board 23 April 2 , 1985
Chairman May accepted the wording as set forth in the MOTION TO AMEND ,
• as did Mrs . Schultz . There being no further discussion , the Chair called
for a vote on the MOTION TO AMEND .
Aye - May , Schultz , Baker , Klein , Stanton , Mazza .
Nay - None .
The MOTION TO AMEND was declared to be carried unanimously .
Chairman May asked if there was any further discussion of the MOTION ,
AS AMENDED , now on the floor . There was none ; the Chair called for a vote
on the MOTION AS AMENDED .
Aye - May , Schultz , Baker , Klein , Stanton , Mazza .
Nay - None .
The MOTION , AS AMENDED , was declared to be carried unanimously .
[ For the Record , the RESOLUTION duly adopted by the Planning Board is
set forth below . ]
" WHEREAS , the Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca has reviewed a
preliminary site plan for a medical office building to be built adjacent to
the existing Tompkins Community Hospital and makes the following findings :
• 1 . The proposed location is suitable for the proposed structure and use
as the medical facilities to be offered will augment and complement
the services presently available in our community .
2 . The location of this medical office adjacent to the Tompkins Community
Hospital will facilitate the convenient use of these services by the
public .
3 . Traffic circulation around the site will be improved by the proposed
circulation and parking plan .
4 . The Board of Directors of the former Tompkins County Hospital is on
record as unanimously supporting the " R- 11 Town Scheme " option for
Route 96 ,
5 . An Environmental Assessment Form as been reviewed and a determination
of negative significance has been made .
THEREFORE , IT IS RESOLVED , that the Planning Board grant and hereby
does grant Preliminary Site Plan Approval subject to terms and conditions
such as the terms and conditions set forth in # 1 through # 5 below as may be
required by this Board upon final site plan review .
1 . That the Tompkins Community Hospital prepare a $ 25 , 000 escrow account
in a form and manner satisfactory to the Town Engineer and Town
Attorney for the construction of an alternate access road west of the
• existing upper tier of parking to serve this project with a connecting
drive . Terms of said agreement to be completed with the developer and
the Town Board prior to any construction of the proposed medical
s
Planning Board 24 April 2 , 1985
• addition . Such an agreement should include land for the access road
and the Hospital proper .
2 . That the Hospital agree to construct a driveway from the existing
parking lot to the proposed staff parking lot on the northeast side of
the Hospital .
3 . If and when Route 96 is relocated , the Community Hospital Board will
abide by the 1977 endorsements of the then Hospital Board and Board
Buildings and Grounds Committee of an alignment for Route 96 so called
the R- 11 Town Scheme . This scheme could impact the existing visitor
parking lot access drive as well as the southwest corner of the
visitor parking lot ( resulting in the loss of approximately 40 apaces )
if this alternative is chosen by NYSDOT ,
4 . The Hospital Board will endorse an off only ramp to the existing
visitor parking lot .
5 . After fair compensation by the NYSDOT for the 40 ± spaces estimated to
be removed by the R- 11 scheme , the Hospital will take steps as
necessary to provide alternative local access drives to improve area
circulation , including a new access drive north of the Administrator ' s
home to the visitor parking lot . "
Chairman May declared the Public Hearing duly closed . Messrs . Hoffman
and Perra thanked the Board members for their time and consideration and
• indicated that they would be returning for the April 16th Planning Board
Meeting ,
ADJOURNMENT
Upon Motion , Chairman May declared the April 2 , 1985 meeting of the
Town of Ithaca Planning Board duly adjourned at 11 : 10 p . m .
Respectfully submitted ,
Nancy M . Fuller , Secretary ,
Town of Ithaca Planning Board .