HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB Minutes 1984-12-04 TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD
DECEMBER 4 , 1984
The Town of Ithaca Planning Board met in regular session on Tuesday ,
December 4 , 1984 , in Town Hall , 126 East Seneca Street , Ithaca , New York ,
at 7 : 30 p . m .
PRESENT : Chairman Montgomery May , Edward Mazza , Virginia Langhans , David
Klein , Carolyn Grigorov , James Baker , Barbara Schultz , Peter M .
Lovi ( Town Planner ) , Lewis D . Cartee ( Town Building Inspector ) ,
Nancy M . Fuller ( Secretary ) .
ALSO PRESENT : Town Councilwoman Shirley Raffensperger , Stewart D .
Knowlton , Douglas Knowlton , Larry Rosenberg , Mario
Giannella , Marge Giannella , Pamela J . Rosenberg , John
Majeroni , Ralph R . Varn , Richard C . Varn , Stan Goldberg ,
Robert H . Schwarting , Gerardo Sciarra , Bernard Hutchins ,
Jinyong Hutchins , Nancy Jackson , Peter Rider , Darryl
Geddes ( WTKO News ) .
Chairman May declared the meeting duly opened at 7 : 35 p . m . and
welcomed Mrs . Raffensperger as the Town Board Representative at this
meeting of the Planning Board .
APPROVAL OF MINUTES - November 20 , 1984
MOTION by Mrs . Virginia Langhans , seconded by Mr . Montgomery May :
RESOLVED , that the Minutes of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board
Meeting of November 20 , 1984 , be and hereby are approved as written .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote .
Aye - May , Langhans , Klein , Grigorov , Baker .
Nay - None .
Abstain - Mazza , Schultz ,
The MOTION was declared to be carried .
STAFF REPORT - Peter M . Lovi
Mr . Lovi reported that he has been working this last week and also
before the holidays on a study of the possible effects of the new law
with respect to Veterans ' Exemptions on the Town of Ithaca . Mr . Lovi
reported that he is putting together a fairly complete model on the
computer using all the information available from several sources ,
including the tax rolls and the census among others . Mr . Lovi stated
that he will have the information compiled for the Town Board meeting on
December 10th , Chairman May asked Mr . Lovi how he was determining the
number of veterans in the Town . Mr . Lovi explained that he has an actual
count of the numbers of veterans presently taking the exemption ,
commenting that he went through ail 3 , 200 parcels in the Town and found
Planning Board 2 December 4 , 1984
about 184 that indicate an exemption . Mr . Lovi described two methods
recommended by the State which can be used to extrapolate the information
desired , the first one being the use of a factor of 1 . 4 times the
existing number of claimed exemptions ; the second is to take the number
of veterans in Tompkins County provided by the Veterans ' Office and
multiply by the Town ' s percentage of the County population as determined
by the 1980 Census , Mr . Lovi commented that there are about 1 , 100
veterans in the Town which is about 10 % of the population , a very high
number . Mr . Lovi commented that at this point it looks like the
exemption could result in substantial tax increase .
Mr . Lovi stated that he would like to submit to the Board a copy of
a letter to Town Attorney Buyoucos from Associate University Counsel
Shirley K . Egan , the copy having been given to him by Mr . Buyoucos . The
Board members asked Mr . Lovi to read the letter into the record . The
letter , dated October 10 , 1984 , is as follows :
" . . . Re : Ecotoxicology Laboratory at Judd Falls Road
I am pleased by the outcome of our meeting Monday morning . To put
substance over form in the case of the sewer permit is certainly in our
clients ' respective interests . I will have our people do follow- up with
Bolton Point to see that the water permit also gets back on track . I am
not certain where that application was originally made , but I am sure
that with assent from the Town on the side issues , things can be put back
• to right procedurally in short order .
As for the building permit exemption , I cannot see why there should
be any question over such well - settled law , but I accept your decision
not to try to settle by this case the issue your client has raised . I am
also appreciative of your sensitivity in realizing that the eve of
completion of this small but vital research facility is not the
appropriate time for a delay to study the matter . As you requested at
our meeting , this letter will serve to confirm that the Town of Ithaca
will not be held responsible for want of enforcing the Building Code ,
should the facility prove not to be in compliance with it and the Town
ever be found responsible for enforcing it in construction for state
university purposes . As quid pro quo , of course , I trust that the
October 3 , 1984 , notice issued by Lewis Cartee will be withdrawn . I know
Mr . Cartee to be a gentleman and a very conscientious person and no one
is suggesting that the notice was issued in anything but good faith .
However , in light of our subsequent discussion , I am sure you will agree
it no longer serves any useful purpose of either party .
Also as discussed at our meeting , I will be obtaining a copy of the
SEQRA negative declaration made by SUNY and forwarding it to you as a
courtesy to you . Likewise as a courtesy , I will forward a copy of the
architect ' s certificate of completion stating that the facility complies
with the State Building Code .
With my thanks again for your help in clearing the air , I am "
The Board members thanked Mr . Lovi for informing them as to
Cornell ' s position with respect to application for building permits .
Planning Board 3 December 4 , 1984
Chairman May asked Mr . Lovi what the status of Pine Tree Road might
be at this time . Mr . Lovi stated that he was contacted by Mr . Buyoucos
and asked to draft a set of restrictive covenants pertaining to the ten
or eleven parcels which were subdivided from the original Marion Farm .
Mr . Lovi stated that he had thought Mr . Buyoucos would be doing that ,
however , he would be attending to that matter . Chairman May stated that
he had actually been referring to the question of the realignment of Pine
Tree Road about which he had thought Mr . Lovi was going to be attending a
meeting . Mr . Lovi responded that he had thought that meeting was to be
last week , however , it is tomorrow [ December 5th ] .
REPORT OF THE BUILDING INSPECTOR - Lewis D . Cartee
Mr . Cartee stated that the Board had before it his Report of
Building Permits Issued for the month of November 1984 which he thought
spoke for itself , however , he would be happy to answer any questions .
Mr . Cartee ' s Report showed that 18 permits were issued in November 1984
for a total of $ 372 , 825 . 00 in improvements , as compared to November 1983
when 7 permits were issued for a total of $ 235 , 000 . 00 in improvements .
REPORT OF THE PLANNING BOARD REPRESENTATIVE TO THE COUNTY PLANNING BOARD
- Carolyn Grigorov ,
Mrs . Grigorov reported that the County Planning Board has not yet
met for the month of December - - the meeting will occur on December 12th .
PUBLIC HEARING : CONSIDERATION OF FINAL SITE PLAN APPROVAL FOR A DRIVE - IN
BANK IN THE EAST HILL PLAZA , TAX PARCEL NUMBER 6 - 62 - 2 - 1 . 2 , STEWART
KNOWLTON , REPRESENTATIVE .
Chairman May declared the Public Hearing in the above - noted matter
duly opened at 7 .950 p . m . and accepted for the record the Clerk ' s
Affidavit of Posting and Publication of the Notice of Public Hearings in
Town Hall and the Ithaca Journal on November 26 , 1984 and November 29 ,
1984 , respectively , together with the Secretary ' s Affidavit of Service by
Mail of said Notice upon the Tompkins County Commissioner of Planning and
upon the parties to the action on November 30 , 1984 . Mr . Stewart D .
Knowlton was present as well as Mr . John Majeroni , Manager of the Cornell
University Real Estate Department ,
Mr . Knowlton appended a large , colored site plan of the proposed
bank facility to the bulletin board . Mr . Knowlton stated that the Board
members had each received with his / her Agenda a copy of a booklet
containing general information regarding the proposal which was compiled
as a result of the previous meeting with the Board and also as a result
of a letter from Mr . Lovi setting forth the items which the Board should
have . Mr . Knowlton indicated on the drawing as he spoke and commented
that they had had to spend a great deal of time in preparing the final
site plan with regard to circulation in order to achieve the best
possible routing . Mr . Knowlton reminded the Board that there were two
exits to the service road indicated at the previous meeting , adding that
that turned out to create some problems as the designers , Weiler
Associates , worked on the circulation matter . Mr . Knowlton pointed out
on the drawing a circulation pattern and a looping out into a major exit ,
Planning Board 4 December 4 , 1984
noting that the distance is about 160 ' from a certain corner and around
200 ' from Ellis Hollow Road . Mr . Knowlton indicated the places where
there are flood lights , pointing out in particular the one at the
" corner " of the service road and the 24 - foot strip between the Plaza
proper and the bank site . After describing the proposed traffic flow in
detail through use of the drawing , Mr . Knowlton stated that the flow as
now envisioned is much better and more controlled . Mr . Knowton described
the access into the bank facility either through the drive coming in from
the service drive [ indicating ] from Ellis Hollow Road and to a parking
area [ indicating ] for anyone wishing to go inside the facility and then
exiting by one exit area into the service road through a major opening of
around 30 feet . Mr . Knowlton explained why the 30 feet was desirable ,
for example , there would be room for a car passing through the drive - in
part and not having to wait in line . Mr . Knowlton indicated on the
drawing the other entrance which would be off the parking area for the
Plaza . Mr . Knowlton described the 24 - foot traffic lane , previously
mentioned , on the Plaza parking lot parallel to Ellis Hollow Road . Mr .
Knowlton indicated on the drawing the four spaces designed for employee
parking . Mr . Knowlton commented on the building itself , commenting that
the booklet the Board had received shows what it would be like and how it
would fit into the neighborhood , further commenting that it was quite
simplified in approach with a design that is in keeping , he thought , with
what they have there now . Mr . Knowlton indicated the drive - through ATM
[ Automatic Teller Machine ] . Mr . Kowlton described the four - foot overhang
around the building itself , pointing out lighting under the canopy and
all around the building and also pointing out " red dots " which show
additional site lights . Mr . Knowlton stated that it will be a well - lit
facility and indicated the two existing 30 - foot pole lights , as
previously mentioned , commenting that the " corner " and the entrance will
be well lit . With reference to landscaping , Mr . Knowlton pointed out
plans for it on the drawing , commenting on the use of 6 " - 8 " caliper units
as opposed to putting in little ones . Mr . Knowlton pointed out a bark
and evergreen and boulder area which , he stated , could be used for
expansion some day if ever needed . With respect to curbing , commenting
that that had been mentioned by the Board , Mr . Knowlton indicated the
place where a curb lane was indicated , being in the area abutting the
office portion . Mr . Knowlton stated that , as the Board was aware , he had
pointed out that curbs , for the Plaza were an absolute problem . Mr .
Knowlton commented that it seems as though the Plaza area catches snow
that no one else does and described the prevailing westerly wind . Mr .
Knowlton described the necessity of keeping the area open and available
for the bank people to move the snow and to move it quickly , therefore ,
the curbing is in place only near the building to protect it . Mr .
Knowlton noted that the islands are raised 62 " and the rest of the
facility is without curbing . Mr . Knowlton commented upon the
inadequacies of the results of plowing were curbs in place [ indicating
various spots where that could occur ] .
Chairman May commented that it looked to him as though there are
four lanes and three through the drive - in . Utilizing the drawing , Mr .
Knowlton indicated a drive - up lane at the building , a potential unit
" here " and a potential unit " there " , with the " other " one being the ATM .
Mr . Knowlton pointed out that all of the equipment for drive - up
facilities .are put in undergound and so they put it all in at once in
case they should ever grow into it . Mr . Knowlton commented that this
Planning Board 5 December 4 , 1984
facility will be one of those very rare facilities with a drive - in ATM ,
and described the dangers of being robbed at the usual walk - up ATMs .
Mrs . Langhans commented that she noticed the ATM has one lane only
and wondered if that were busy and one did not want to use that facility
would one have to wait . Mr . Knowlton stated that they would not ,
pointing out that the lane is wide enough for two cars . Mrs . Langhans
wondered what would happen if people want to go shopping after going to
the bank , asking what would stop them from moving on to the Plaza parking
area . Mr . Knowlton responded that nothing really would stop that from
happening , adding , however , that he thought most people will go on out .
Mrs . Langhans asked if there will be directional signs . Mr . Knowlton
indicated the placement of enter and exit signs , adding that they will be
lit .
Chairman May asked if there were anyone present who wished to speak
to the matter of the bank facility .
Mr . Larry Rosenberg , 38 Dove Drive , spoke from the floor and asked ,
with respect to the service road , who maintains that road . Mr . Knowlton
stated that the service road is maintained by the Plaza , adding that it
is a private road . Mr . Rosenberg noted that that road is deteriorated in
parts and asked if there were plans to improve it . Mr . Knowlton
described the on - going maintenance program with respect to the service
road , commenting that he thought as long as they have the bus traffic
that they do they are going to be in a continual state of repair . Mr .
Knowlton stated that the design of the parking lot was not done to
accommodate the kind of bus traffic that they now have . Indicating on
the drawing , Mr . Knowlton pointed out the area on the service road that
has received attention and stated that they have corrected , for now , for
this end of the year , as much as they can . Mr . Knowlton also commented
that they have changed some lanes and flow as to where the busses go .
Mr . Knowlton described in some detail the actual construction of the
service road and what is entailed when repairs are needed .
Mrs . Pamela Rosenberg , 38 Dove Drive , spoke from the floor and asked
if four parking spaces were enough . Mr . Knowlton responded that
according to the specifications of the Trust Company they were enough .
Mrs . Rosenberg questioned whether that number really would be sufficient .
Mr . Knowlton stated that he thought there would be enough and added that
they have tried to maintain as much green area as possible . Chairman May
noted that in the Bank ' s opinion , four is a sufficient number . Mrs .
Langhans commented that the facility is basically a checking / savings
bank , to which Mr . Knowlton agreed . Mrs . Langhans asked if people could
go in and get a loan . Mr . Knowlton responded that one could certainly
apply for a loan there , commenting that there is a place for one to go in
and sit down .
Mrs . Shirley Raffensperger , 139 Pine Tree Road , spoke from the floor
and pointed out that at the time of the previous discussion with respect
to this particular proposal for a drive - in bank , the two lanes at the
" top " [ indicating ] were to encourage traffic to use " that " exit as
opposed to the service station area . Mrs . Raffensperger asked what Mr .
Knowlton was intending to do with those two lanes and what kind of effect
Planning Board 6 December 4 , 1984
there would be with two lanes of exit and entrance , adding , as an
example , if a person had been shopping at the RiteAid and then went out
onto Ellis Hollow Road . Utilizing the drawing , Mr . Knowlton explained
how that would happen , noting that one could go from the RiteAid to the
previously described 24 - foot wide roadway . Mr . Knowlton commented that
this is why that road is 24 ' wide , having two 12 - foot lanes .
Mrs . Raffensperger wondered what was going to happen to the bus
house . Mr . Knowlton stated that the bus house will stay in its present
position for now , commenting that some people would think it would be
nice to move it , but , as everyone knew , he is pretty emphatic about this
facility because of the elderly persons in the area . Mr . Knowlton stated
that it is a rest stop for many of the old folks in the Ellis Hollow
Apartments and they really do use it for that since it is just about half
way to the shopping area . Mr . Knowlton stated that if it were moved it
would disturb their exercise and transportation routine .
Mr . Mario Giannella , 6 Dove Drive , spoke from the floor and ,
pointing to a particular parking spot on the drawing , asked if there were
room enough to back out . Mr . Knowlton stated that there is a 60 - foot
span there which should be more than sufficient .
Mr . Robert Schwarting , 112 Park Lane , spoke from the floor and
stated that he thought it was a great idea .
Chairman May asked if there were anyone else who wished to speak to
• the matter of the Tompkins County Trust Company drive - in bank . No one
spoke . Chairman May closed the Public Hearing at 8 : 15 p . m .
Mr . Cartee stated that he wished to bring to the Board ' s attention
an Application for Sign Permit with respect to this project , commenting
that the proposed freestanding sign was included in the booklet which the
Board had before it . Mr . Cartee pointed out that the bank is asking for
a four - sided sign with 316 " wide x 4 ' high panels , 15 feet high . Mr .
Cartee read from Section 5 . 03 - 1 of the Sign Law , as follows :
" Freestanding sign panels or sign symbols shall have not more than two
faces and the maximum area of the panel or symbol shall be 50 square
feet . " Mr . Cartee also read from Section 4 . 02 - 2 ( b ) ( 2 ) , as follows : " In
the case of multi - use facilities , one freestanding sign shall be allowed
for the development as a whole , regardless of the number of separate
enterprises . If such multi - use facility has entrances for vehicular
traffic on more than one street , two freestanding signs are permitted . "
Mr . Cartee stated that he would interpret that section as meaning that
there may be two " East Hill Plaza " signs . Mr . Cartee stated that he had
information that there will be no signs on the front or sides of the
bank ; there may be a logo on the door or window at the entrance . Mr .
Knowlton stated that the bank has asked for stationary lit signs ,
commenting that the signage seems to be quite sedate and without wall
signage .
Chairman May stated that he thought the matter of the requested
signage was a matter which the Planning Board could not address , however ,
it could make a recommendation to the Zoning Board of Appeals . The Board
indicated its concurrence with Chairman May ' s thoughts .
Planning Board 7 December 4 , 1984
MOTION by Mr . Montgomery May , seconded by Mr . David Kleine
WHEREAS , the Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca :
1 ) Has reviewed a preliminary site plan and Environmental Assessment
Form for the Tompkins County Trust Company ' s proposed East Hill
Plaza drive - in bank ,
2 ) A negative determination of environmental significance was made and
preliminary site plan approval was granted on October 2 , 1984 and
October 16 , 1984 , respectively ,
3 ) The developer has presented a final site plan in a form acceptable
to the Town Planner describing :
a ) Property lines , including metes and bounds ,
b ) Topography , showing existing and proposed contours ;
c ) Adjacent public streets ;
d ) Size and location of all structures ;
e ) Area and location of parking , off - street loading and access
drives ,
f ) Proposed signs , lighting , and landscaping ;
g ) Building elevations .
THEREFORE , IT IS RESOLVED that the Planning Board of the Town of
Ithaca grant and hereby does grant Final Site Plan Approval to this
• project as presented , subject to the following terms and conditions :
1 ) That no business shall be
transacted and the facility shall not be
opened to the public until all site improvements have been completed
to the satisfaction of the Building Inspector , Town Planner , and the
Town Engineer .
By way of discussion , Mr . Mazza stated that he would like to say
that he liked this plan for the bank facility , however , he did want to
have somewhere in the record that this is one more addition to East Hill
Plaza and one more addition to the traffic and at some point there is
going to have to be a way to deal with the traffic problems at the Plaza .
Mr . Mazza commented that a small addition here and a small addition there
over the years and for the future may not seem to be much at the time ,
but sooner or later something will have to be done . Chairman May agreed
with Mr . Mazza .
By way of further discussion , Mr . Klein commented on the last part
of the Motion on the floor - - " no business shall be transacted and the
facility shall not be opened to the public until all site improvements
have been completed . . . , " stating that he thought that might be
inappropriate because of the time of year , and asking Mr . Knowlton what
the timetable for construction might be . Mr . Knowlton stated that he was
just going to mention that last part of the Motion because the plans are
for opening March 15th [ 1985 ] and the landscaping , for example , would be
difficult and they consider a " completion " as soon as the weather would
permit as far as the landscaping goes .
Planning Board 8 December 4 , 1984
Discussion followed . Mr . Lovi stated that he would prefer the
Motion to remain as it is , that is , " to the satisfaction of the Town
Engineer , etc . " , adding that certainly they would not hold Mr . Knowlton
to an unreasonable schedule .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote .
Aye - May , Mazza , Langhans , Klein , Grigorov , Baker , Schultz .
Nay - None .
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously .
Referring now to the Sign Application , Chairman May stated that the
freestanding sign with four faces is outside the jurisdiction of the Sign
Review Board [ Planning Board ] , therefore , the only thing the Board can do
is offer a recommendation to the Board of Appeals .
Mr . Mazza asked Mr . Knowlton if there had been some discussion about
the need for this particular sign as opposed to a sign on the face of the
building . Indicating on the drawing , Mr . Knowlton showed the face of the
building as it goes to Ellis Hollow Road and stated that it just cannot
be seen . Mr . Knowlton commented that the bank views it as an
identification sign from far away , and added that he did not think it was
gaudy but merely to identify what this facility is . Mr . Klein wondered
if the exception were not also that it is freestanding as well as
four - sided . Mrs . Grigorov said she thought it was supposed to be an
informational sign . Mr . Klein commented that the facility will be a
neighborhood bank , in a sense , and after a while people will know where
it is . Mr . Klein stated that he would make a negative recommendation .
Mrs . Grigorov stated that it is a little different in the sense that it
is not with the rest of the Plaza .
Mr . John Majeroni , Manager of Cornell Real Estate , spoke from the
floor and stated that this project is not , in fact , a part of East Hill
Plaza , adding that he thought the intent of the sign regulations was to
deal with stores in the Plaza itself . Mr . Majeroni stated that the bank
is on a separate piece of land and Mr . Knowlton is on authorization to
present this from the University , adding again , that it really is a
different piece of land . Mr . Mazza stated that it is essentially a part
of the Plaza and has been so presented . Mr . Majeroni commented that it
is a part of the Plaza in the same sense as the Golden Dragon Restaurant
is a part of Pyramid Mall - - it can be under different ownership . Mrs .
Grigorov stated that it is a separate part from the Plaza and asked how
the gas station got its sign . Mrs . Raffensperger responded that a
variance was granted by the Town Board .
MOTION by Mr . Edward Mazza , seconded by Mr . David Klein :
RESOLVED , that the Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca recommend
and hereby does recommend to the Zoning Board of Appeals that the
requested sign for the proposed Tompkins County Trust Company drive - in
bank facility be denied , the Planning Board being of the opinion that at
this time it has not been shown adequate reason for varying the ordinance
Planning Board 9 December 4 , 1984
to allow for such sign , being deficient in that it is freestanding and
also four - sided .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote .
Aye - May , Mazza , Langhans , Klein , Grigorov , Baker , Schultz .
Nay - None .
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously .
Chairman May declared the matter of the Tompkins County Trust
Company drive - in bank facility duly closed at 8 : 30 p . m .
Mr . Mazza stated that he wished to have on the record that the
Planning Board has , once again , expanded East Hill Plaza without
requiring some action with regard to the traffic problem that impacts it ,
however , that problem has been recognized by the Planning Board and is
again recognized so that in the future , should he not be a member of the
Planning Board , the Town can look back and see that the Planning Board
did perceive this as a problem and that one after another additions inch
their way into a bigger problem . Mr . Mazza stated that he wished to have
on the record also that the Planning Board has made recommendations as to
realignment of Pine Tree Road and that he would like to see those
reaffirmed .
It was AGREED by the Board that Mr . Mazza ' s statement be placed on
• the record as a CONSENSUS STATEMENT of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board ,
PUBLIC HEARING : DETERMINATION OF ENVIRONMENTAL SIGNIFICANCE AND
CONSIDERATION OF PRELIMINARY SUBDIVISION APPROVAL FOR A 22 - LOT
SUBDIVISION IN THE VICINITY OF DOVE DRIVE , TAX PARCEL NUMBER 6 - 61 - 1 - 8 . 12 ,
RALPH VARN , DEVELOPER .
Chairman May declared the Public Hearing in the above - noted matter
duly opened at 8 : 35 p . m . and accepted for the record the Clerk ' s
Affidavit of Posting and Publication of the Notice of Public Hearings in
Town Hall and the Ithaca Journal on November 26 , 1984 and November 29 ,
1984 , respectively , together with the Secretary ' s Affidavit of Service by
Mail of said Notice upon the various neighbors of the property in
question , upon the Tompkins County Commissioner of Planning and upon the
parties to the action on November 30 , 1984 . Mr . Ralph R . Varn was
present .
Mr . Varn appeared before the Board and introduced himself and his
brother , Richard C . Varn , and stated that they are Varn Brothers
Contractors . Mr . Varn stated that he is proposing a 22 - lot subdivision
in an area which he termed an extension of Dove Drive , Mr . Varn noted
that the Board members each had before him/ her a plat showing the
configuration and showing where a park would be . Mr . Varn stated that he
thought all the information the Board might wish is on the map , such as ,
topography , water and sewer , etc . Mr . Varn noted that he had appended a
larger version of the plat plan to the bulletin board together with some
basic design drawings . Mr . Varn stated that the houses he will be
Planning Board 10 December 4 , 1984
• constructing will run from $ 75 , 000 . 00 up to $ 100 , 000 . 00 and maybe a
little over that depending on the design .
Chairman May commented that it appeared that Mr . Varn had not made
any attempt to site any of the houses on the lots . Mr . Varn stated that
that was correct . Chairman May asked Mr . Varn if he had determined the
phasing of the project . Mr . Varn responded that he had not yet
determined the phasing 1000 , but he would say the least they would open
up is the first seven and then next year follow through with the whole
thing , adding that it is dependent on sales as to how next they will
proceed .
Chairman May asked if there were anyone present who wished to speak
to the matter before the Board .
Mr . Larry Rosenberg , 38 Dove Drive , spoke from the floor and stated
that he had a letter from his wife and him to present for the record .
The Secretary read aloud as follows :
" Dec 3 , 1984
Planning Board
Town of Ithaca
We are pleased that the Planning Board is considering Ralph Varn ' s
subdivision proposal to complete the Dove Drive loop and build 22
. conventional houses around it . As we have made clear at previous
Planning Board meetings , we are in favor of developing that land in a
manner that is compatible with the rest of the neighborhood . We do have
a few concerns , though , which we will list below ; we would appreciate it
if Mr . Varn and the members of the Planning Board would consider them .
1 ) Drainage - many of the residents of Dove Drive and Pheasant Lane have
experienced drainage problems - we ' d like an explicit plan to divert
runoff from the proposed development into the drainage system , and not
onto our property . Minutes from Town hearings concerning the original
Hilker plan mentioned the possibility of installing perforated pipe down
the Eastern end of the subdivision , along the Ithaca / Dryden line .
Perhaps this could be done through appropriate parts of the area .
Preservation of the trees that are scattered throughout the area and
clustered fairly heavily in the northeastern portion would probably help ,
as would planting new trees . Both for drainage and aesthetics , we
request as little removal of existing trees , and as much planting of new
ones , as is reasonably practicable .
2 ) Apartments - we have heard that some houses might include apartments .
We hope that the intention of the development is conventional owner
occupied houses , in which some residents might choose to have an
apartment in their house , rather than a preponderence of duplexes or
two - unit buildings which might lead to many problems that the Board is
well aware of .
3 ) Aesthetics - the proposed development would be more attractive if all
the houses weren ' t stamped out of the same cookie - cutter . We support a
Planning Board 11 December 4 , 1984
• mixture of several building designs , and perhaps of both custom and spec
houses .
4 ) Town responsibility - what part will the Town have in completion
and / or maintenance of any partially completed roads and excavations in
the event Mr . Varn does not complete the project ? Will the Town be
involved in Park maintenance and construction of off - street parking for
the Park ?
5 ) We would appreciate consideration of the Southern exposure and the
windy conditions in the choice of building materials and housing
locations and designs .
6 ) Construction noise - in the City , there is a current issue about
construction starting at lam and disturbing people - as this is a
residential area , would it be possible to agree on times during which
noisy construction will be curtailed ?
Sincerely ,
( sgd . ) Pamela J . Rosenberg
( sgd . ) Lawrence A . Rosenberg
38 Dove Drive
Ithaca , N . Y . "
Mr . Varn stated that he would try to respond to the various points
• raised . With respect to drainage , Mr . Varn stated that the final site
plan would take into consideration all drainage and will be taken care of
to Town satisfaction as in the subdivision regulations . Mr . Varn stated
that the roads will be to Town specification with the ditches in . Mr .
Varn stated that he felt the drainage should be well in hand , adding that
he could not fix the neighbors ' problems unless they relate , and
commenting that he would not put a drainage ditch into a pond in the
Rosenbergs ' back yard , for instance .
Mr . Lovi pointed out that this preliminary plan has come in with
topo lines and engineering information and stated that he thought this
plan will improve the drainage across this slope . Mr . Lovi stated that ,
although relief for problems which people are having already cannot be
promised , he could say that it will not make the situation worse and
probably will improve it .
With respect to apartments , Mr . Varn stated that their plans are as
depicted by the drawings [ on the bulletin board ] , most of which do not
have apartments in them , adding that there are only two that do . Mr .
Varn stated that it is going to be an option if somebody wants one .
Chairman May noted that one and two - family homes are permitted under the
Town Zoning Ordinance . Mr . Varn stated that the model will not have an
apartment in it and indicated one or two plans , of the six on the
bulletin board , in which an apartment might be added . Mr . Varn pointed
out that they do not have apartments in them anyway , noting that there is
just an open space for an apartment or a family room , and adding that
they will have plumbing . Mr . Varn stated that he did not plan to have 22
houses all with apartments , commenting that he would venture to say that
Planning Board 12 December 4 , 1984
maybe six to eight only might end up that way because he has found that
most people do not want an apartment in their home .
With regard to aesthetics , Mr . Varn described all wood siding in
earth tone colors , adding that he and his brother do not like to do
vinyl . Mr . Varn stated that they do attractive homes in cedar either
horizontal or vertical . Mr . Varn described six different houses flipped
around and not cookie - cutter stamped . As for trees , Mr . Varn stated that
the park was originally planned up " there " [ indicating ] and noted that
the Town had planted some trees . Mr . Varn pointed out that he has
proposed moving the park " down " [ indicating ] and moving some of the trees
down there too and replanting them , adding that that will have to be
worked out with the Town . Mr . Varn stated that he plans to put in some
more trees , however , he would rather not be pinned down to a specific
number right now , but he would say that there will be trees . Mr . Varn
described some of the things he would like to do with the park and have
as a part of it , mentioning benches and fencing among other things
Speaking to the matter of southern exposure , Mr . Varn stated that
most will be oriented such that the living areas are to the south side ,
adding that the breakfast nook and the dining room as they go on the lot
will have southern exposure and , if flipped , will have southern exposure
too . Mrs . Rosenberg stated that she was thinking more of solar access
panels . Mr . Varn stated that he did not believe in active solar , but he
did believe in passive solar .
• With respect to construction noise , Mr . Varn stated that Varn
Brothers commence work normally at 5 : 30 a . m . , however , in this case they
could start around 7 : 30 a . m . Mr . Varn ' s joke was appreciated by all .
Mr . Rosenberg , pointing to the map , asked where the existing road to
the water tower will go under this plan . Mr . Varn indicated on the map
where the road goes over the piping and stated that the road will be in
basically the same position but to Town specifications .
Mr . Mario Giannella , 6 Dove Drive , spoke from the floor and stated
that in the past there was a bankruptcy , adding that he was sure Mr . Varn
does not want that to happen , however , he would like to know what the
responsibilities of the Town are in such a matter . Mr . Lovi explained in
some detail the different types of bankruptcies which could occur and the
various circumstances which could cause such a situation . Mr . Lovi also
noted that what might happen depends on what resources are on the site
and what state of completion the buildings are in . Mr . Lovi commented
that if the concern is what if there are ten half -built hulks that is one
thing that in phasing the project and with the staff working with the
developer he does not get too far ahead . Mr . Giannella wondered what
would happen if the project were half done and the land sold . Mr . Lovi
replied that someone could buy the land and finish the project as
approved , however , if that person had another plan for the remaining
unbuilt - upon portion of the land , he would have to come before the Board
and there would be a public hearing .
Mr . Robert Schwarting , 112 Park Lane , spoke from the floor and asked
if this is preliminary approval and subsequently a new plat for this
Planning Board 13 December 4 , 1984
land . Mr . Lovi stated that no final approval was ever granted to this
portion of the land once owned by Hilker , adding that the Novarr plan was
not approved . Mr . Schwarting stated that he was happy to see someone
coming in and going ahead with development in the character and nature of
the community .
Mrs . Nancy Jackson , 6 Pheasant Lane , spoke from the floor and stated
that she was happy with the placement of the park .
Mr . Peter Rider , 2 Pheasant Lane , spoke from the floor and asked
about off - road parking and other people using the park . Mr . Lovi noted
that the area shown on the map as " park " is actually " open space " which
is turned over to the Town of Ithaca . Mr . Lovi stated that it is not a
" Park " until the Landscape Architect , the Town Park Committee , and the
Town Board consider many things .
Mr . Schwarting stated that the Town Park Committee has been very
responsive to the public .
Mrs . Wayne Corapi , 4 Pheasant Lane , spoke from the floor and asked
Mr . Varn if he would sell lots to other people to build on . Mr . Varn
stated that he does not work that way , commenting that all would be their
building ; spec houses would be their building . Mr . Varn stated that he
would rather have control over the architecture on the lots .
Mr . Schwarting asked about the size of the proposed homes , to which
Mr . Varn responded that they will be at a minimum of around 1 , 000 sq .
ft . , not counting the basement , upwards to 3 , 000 sq . ft .
Mrs . Giannella commented that if all the houses are wood , or cedar ,
it would not be compatible with the neighborhood which has white houses
and yellow houses . Mr . Varn explained that the houses can be of a
variety colors - - they are made of cedar . Mr . Varn explained that the
reason the different models shown on the bulletin board are all brown is
that that is the only color marker he had at the time .
Mrs . Rosenberg commented that she had counted the house numbers that
would apply to the new homes and they did not work out right . The
Secretary explained that the Building Inspector assigns house numbers in
the Town , not the Planning . Board and not the developer .
There being no further questions from the floor , Chairman May asked
that the Board turn to the matter of Environmental Review , The Board
members each had before him / her a copy of the Short Environmental
Assessment Form , dated November 20 , 19841 the Long EAF , dated November
21 , 1984 , and Environmental Assessment Part II as prepared by Mr . Lovi
under date of November 29 , 1984 , and containing a recommendation for a
negative declaration . Mrs . Rosenberg requested a copy and was given one .
Chairman May asked that the Board go through the Long EAF page by page
and make comments , if any . There were no comments or requests for change
with regard to all seven pages of the Long EAF . Chairman May asked the
Board to turn to Part II and go over it page by page also . There were no
comments or requests for change except for the last item - - # 18 which Mr .
Lovi had indicated as " Yes " [ " Is there public controversy concerning the
Planning Board 14 December 4 , 1984
project ? " ) Mr . Lovi explained that the land in question had been the
subject of some controversy with respect to the Novarr proposal . The
Board agreed that in this case , the answer could well be " no " .
MOTION by Mr . Edward Mazza , seconded by Mr . Montgomery May :
RESOLVED , that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board , acting as lead
agency in the review of the proposed 22 - lot subdivision in the vicinity
of Dove Drive , Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No . 6 - 61 - 1 - 8 . 12 , Ralph R . Varn ,
developer , approve and hereby does approve the Environmental Assessment
Form as completed , and
FURTHER RESOLVED , that pursuant to the State Environmental Quality
Review Act , Part 617 , this action is classified as Unlisted , and
FURTHER RESOLVED , that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board has
determined from the Environmental Assessment Form and all pertinent
information that the above -mentioned action will not significantly impact
the environment and , therefore , will not require further environmental
review .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote .
Aye - May , Mazza , Langhans , Klein , Grigorov , Baker , Schultz .
Nay - None .
• The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously .
Referring to the plat plan before him , Mr . Mazza noted the lots on
the curve of the road , commented that the Board seems to always have
these with roads on these curves , and asked if the Board had to make any
special recommendations . Mr . Lovi responded that it did not , adding that
the lots will meet the zoning ordinance in that at the building line they
will be 100 feet wide .
Chairman May asked if the plan meets all of the current zoning
requirements . Mr . Lovi stated that it does , adding that he had checked
the fire truck radius required and that is okay too .
Mr . Mazza commented that Mr . Varn had talked about moving some trees
and asked him if there had been any discussions about that with the staff
with respect to the park . Mr . Lovi stated that what is up there on a lot
by lot basis depends on what is going to turn out to be appropriate for a
park . Mr . Lovi stated that he thought there is enough time , given what a
likely building schedule is for next year , to work that out . Mr . Varn
stated that he would really like to discuss the park and trees and so on
with the staff , commenting that he did not even know what is up there
specifically right now . Mr . Varn stated that he would really like to put
up a fence , seats , a walk- through , etc .
MOTION by Mr . Montgomery May , seconded by Mrs . Carolyn Grigorov :
RESOLVED , that the Town of Ithaca PlanningBoard rant and hereby
g e y
does grant Preliminary Subdivision Approval for Hungerford Heights , a
J
Planning Board 15 December 4 , 1984
22 - lot subdivision in the vicinity of Dove Drive , Town of Ithaca Tax
Parcel No . 6 - 61 - 1 - 8 . 12 , as proposed by Ralph R . Varn , developer , and
presented to said Planning Board at Public Hearing this date , December 4 ,
1984 , and as shown on drawing entitled " Hungerford Heights " Preliminary
Subdivision Plat , dated November 21 , 1984 .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote .
Aye On, May , Mazza , Langhans , Klein , Grigorov , Baker , Schultz .
Nay - None .
Chairman May declared the matter of Preliminary Subdivision Approval
for Hungerford Heights duly closed at 9 : 30 p . m .
Chairman May stated that , as a separate item , he would ask Mr . Lovi
to have the staff determine what is on the site with respect to trees ,
etc .
Mr . Mazza asked permission of the Chair to be excused and was
granted same .
DISCUSSION OF H . U . D . AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROGRAM
Mr . Lovi noted that the Board members had each received a copy of
some interesting material which he had received from the United States
• Department of Housing and Urban Development , under their program known as
" Citizen Action for Affordable Housing , " in the form of a 12 -page booklet
entitled " Technical Guide for Builders and Realtors , �� and , his Report , as
follows :
" REPORT
T0 : Planning Board
FROM : Peter Lovi
DATE : November 28 , 1984
Re : Highlights of the HUD Affordable Housing Seminar and Literature
1 . Definition : ' Affordable housing is appropriate housing that can be
purchased by people for a reasonable percentage of their income . A
person with an ' average income ' ought to be able to buy an average
price new house . '
2 . Housing is considered affordable when housing costs do not exceed
one - third of a person ' s monthly income .
3 . Affordable housing is not subsidized housing .
4 . At this time , only 25 per cent of all American households are able
to buy new single - family homes . Only 15 per cent of all first - time
home buyers can afford to purchase the median - priced new home . And
60 per cent of all existing homeowners could afford to purchase
their present homes without the benefit of their accrued equity .
Planning Board 16 December 4 , 1984
5 . Land , labor , materials , financing , overhead , and profits are the
major elements which go into the cost of a new house . During the
1970s , labor , materials , overhead , and profit decreased as a
percentage of total housing cost . During the same period , the cost
of land went up 248 per cent and financing charges rose sharply .
6 . Land costs include the price of undeveloped land , cost of onsite
improvements ( e . g . , grading , utility services ) , proportionate share
of overall development improvements ( e . g . , streets , street lights ,
sanitary and storm sewers , other utilities ) .
7 . Land costs can be reduced in two ways : ( 1 ) increasing site density ,
( 2 ) reducing site development standards .
8 . Price of house also includes the cost of materials , components , and
equipment used in the house and the labor needed to assemble them .
These costs can be reduced by cutting back assembly time , using
lower cost materials , or using manufactured homes or components .
9 . Housing costs may also be cut by reducing the total area and number
of rooms . "
Mr . Lovi prefaced his presentation with the thought that what
affordable housing is in one community and what it is in another , and
also , within the community itself , are becoming more and more public
• issues . Mr . Lovi noted that since people are placing sizeable
investments in their homes , they feel they should have more and more say
in their neighborhoods . Mr . Lovi went on to describe in more detail what
he had presented in his Report while referencing the booklet before the
Board and other literature available in the Town Planning Library on the
subject of affordable housing . Mr . Lovi described various options for
the future development of housing in the Town and the underlying causal
relationships between development and perceptions .
The Board members expressed keen interest in Mr . Lovi ' s presentation
and expressed their hope that further material will be presented along
these lines and that further discussions will be held in 1985 . In this
connection , the Secretary was asked to arrange a presentation by the New
York Manufactured Housing Association in the Spring .
DISCUSSION ITEMS
a ) Recommendation of Reappointment of Montgomery May for 7 -year term
commencing January 1 , 1985 .
MOTION by Mr . David Klein , seconded by Mrs . Carolyn Grigorov :
RESOLVED , that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board recommend and
hereby does recommend to the Town Board the reappointment of Mr .
Montgomery May to another seven - year term as a member of the Town of
Ithaca Planning Board , commencing January 1 , 1985 .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote .
Planning Board 17 December 4 , 1984
Aye - Langhans , Klein , Grigorov , Baker , Schultz , May .
Nay - None ,
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously .
b ) Recommendations for Chairman and Vice Chairman
Chairman May stated that he had asked Mrs . Grigorov if she would be
willing to continue to serve as Vice Chairman of the Planning Board and
she had kindly consented to do so .
MOTION by Mr . Montgomery May , seconded by Mr . James Baker .
RESOLVED , that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board appoint and hereby
does appoint as its Vice Chairman for the year 1985 , Mrs . Carolyn
Grigorov .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote .
Aye - May , Langhans , Klein , Baker , Schultz , Grigorov .
Nay - None .
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously .
MOTION by Mrs . Barbara Schultz , seconded by Mr . David Klein *
RESOLVED , that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board recommend and
hereby does recommend to the Town Board the reappointment of Mr .
Montgomery May as Chairman of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board for the
year 1985 .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote .
Aye - Langhans , Klein , Grigorov , Baker , Schultz .
Nay - None .
Abstain - May .
C ) Planning Board Meeting Dates for 1985
MOTION by Mr . Montgomery May , seconded by Mrs . Barbara Schultz :
RESOLVED , by the Town of Ithaca Planning Board , that its primary
monthly meeting be held on the first Tuesday of the month , with the third
Tuesday of the month set aside as a secondary monthly meeting to be held
only when circumstances require such second meeting , with the exception
of the month of November where the first Tuesday is Election Day and ,
therefore , the November meeting will be held on the third Tuesday , and
further , in the case of January 1985 , with the first Tuesday being
January 1st , New Year ' s Day , the Planning Board will meet on the third
Tuesday .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote .
Aye - May , Langhans , Klein , Grigorov , Baker , Schultz .
v
Planning Board 18 December 4 , 1984
• Nay - None .
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously .
PLANNING BOARD REPRESENTATIVE TO THE TOWN BOARD
Chairman May stated that he will attend the December 31st , 1984 ,
meeting of the Town Board , The Board will establish who will be
attending the Town Board meetings in 1985 at a future meeting .
ADJOURNMENT
Upon Motion , Chairman May declared the December 4 , 1984 , meeting of
the Town of Ithaca Planning Board duly adjourned at 10 : 15 p . m .
Everyone wished everyone else a VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A VERY
HAPPY AND HEALTHY NEW YEAR .
The Secretary extends to all who read these Minutes her very best
wishes for a wonderful Christmas , a happy Hannukah , and for the best New
Year ever - - 198511010
Respectfully submitted ,
Nancy M . Fuller , Secretary ,
Town of Ithaca Planning Board .