HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB Minutes 1984-03-20 Z
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TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD
MARCH 20 , 1984
The Town of Ithaca Planning Board met in regular session on
Tuesday , March 20 , 1984 , in Town Hall , 126 East Seneca Street ,
Ithaca , New York , at 7 : 30 p . m .
PRESENT : Chairman Montgomery May , Barbara Schultz , Edward Mazza ,
Bernard Stanton , David Klein , Carolyn Grigorov ,
Virginia Langhans , Lawrence P . Fabbroni ( Town
Engineer ) , Peter M . Lovi ( Town Planner ) , Nancy M .
Fuller ( Secretary ) .
ALSO PRESENT : Rocco P . Lucente , Robert A . Boehlecke Jr . , I .
Stanley Goldberg , Jean Chabot , Charles Walcott ,
David G . Allen , Catherine Milnor , Ellen Robb ,
Claude Robb , Patrick Hughes , Alan Renwick , Anne A .
Renwick , Ian Tyndall , William Reed , Mario
Giannella , Bernard A . Hutchins , Jinyong Hutchins ,
Gerardo Sciarra , Nancy Jackson , John Novarr , Nancy
DeLuca , James Clapp , Peter Rider , Susan Corapi ,
Ann Goldfarb -Clapp , Wayne Corapi , Scott Camazine ,
Diane Walker , Frank Walker , Pamela Rosenberg ,
Larry Rosenberg , Robert H . Schwarting , Louise
Taylor , Roger Allen , Beverly Livesay , H . Padamsee ,
David Gluck .
Chairman May declared the meeting duly opened at 7 : 31 p . m .
and accepted for the record the Clerk ' s Affidavit of Posting and
Publication of the Notice of Public Hearings in Town Hall and the
Ithaca Journal on March 12 , 1984 and March 15 , 1984 ,
respectively , together with the Secretary ' s Affidavit of Service
by Mail of said Notice upon the various neighbors of each of the
properties under discussion , upon the Tompkins County
Commissioner of Planning , upon the Tompkins County Commissioner
of Public Works , upon the Clerk of the Towns of Dryden and
Ithaca , upon the Tompkins County Administrator , upon the State of
New York in the care of Cornell University , and upon each of the
owners , developers , and / or agents , as party to the action .
Chairman May announced that the Public Hearing scheduled for
9 : 00 p . m . with respect to the Lake Shore West development at the
former Biggs Memorial Hospital site will not be held , at the
request of the developer , and will be adjourned to a future
meeting of this Board , probably April 3rd .
PUBLIC HEARING : SITE PLAN REVIEW AND CONSIDERATION OF A
RECOMMENDATION TO THE TOWN BOARD TO REZONE TAX PARCELS N0 .
6 - 7010 - 3 . 12 TO - 3 . 25 FROM RESIDENCE DISTRICT R15 TO MULTIPLE
RESIDENCE DISTRICT . ROCCO LUCENTE , OWNER / DEVELOPER .
Planning Board 2 March 20 , 1984
Chairman May declared the Public Hearing in the above noted
matter duly opened at 7 : 33 p . m .
[ Secretary ' s Note : The published notice was erroneous
insofar as the zoning designation was cited as R30 rather than
R15 and also with respect to the use of the words " a portion of "
tax parcels , etc . The corrections were pointed out by the Board
and are as noted above . ]
Mr . Lovi noted that the plan presented by Mr . Lucente , and
appended to the bulletin board , was a similar plan to that which
the Board has seen , as is the proposal . Mr . Mazza noted ,
however , that this is the first Public Hearing on the matter
although there have been several meetings with Mr . Lucente and
his architect , Robert Boehlecke , and suggested that Mr . Boehlecke
outline the proposal for the benefit of those of the public
present .
Mr . Boehlecke appeared before the Board and stated that
nothing has really changed in the proposal since last June
[ 1983 ] . Mr . Boehlecke pointed out that there are 14 existing ,
split - level , buildings , the lower level being partly below grade .
Mr . Boehlecke noted that each of the 14 existing buildings
contains two units with each such unit containing five bedrooms .
Mr . Boehlecke stated that , presently , each of the existing
buildings may legally be occupied by up to 14 individuals . Mr .
Boehlecke stated that the proposal is two - fold , i . e . , a request
for the rezoning of the 14 lots involved from R15 to a Multiple
Residence District and to convert each five -bedroom unit into two
units , one containing two bedrooms and one containing one
bedroom , thus , there would be four dwelling units within each of
the 14 existing buildings , rather than the two dwelling units as
is the case at present . Mr . Boehlecke , indicating on the
drawing , noted that the number of bedrooms per level would be
reduced from five per level to three per level , but that the
number of units per level would be increased from one per level
to two per level . Mr . Boehlecke stated that the proposal does
not involve any additions to the buildings ; there would be no
expansion of the buildings , merely an interior subdivision of the
structure . Mr . Boehlecke stated that there would be an entrance
to each unit on each level , adding that they are already existing
and , basically , a subdivision of the space into two units
utilizing the two existing entrances . Mr . Boehlecke stated that
the conversion will involve some building code work , i . e . , fire
separation , etc . , and some addition of kitchen space , all of
which will , basically , create one two - bedroom and one one - bedroom
unit on each floor . Mr . Boehlecke noted , in conjunction with
that , since the amount of people occupying the structures will be
reduced , the parking lots are proposed to be defined better and
paved , or oiled and stoned , and to provide four outdoor spaces
with two spaces in the existing garages . Mr . Boehlecke commented
that the present parking lots are rather indistinct and not very
well defined and somewhat larger than what is proposed . Mr .
Boehlecke stated that the proposal includes clearly defined
' Planning Board 3 March 20 , 1984
• parking spaces , landscaping around the parking spaces , some
interior refurbishing , refinishing , painting , and so forth . Mr .
Boehlecke stated that there is some exterior work which Mr .
Lucente plans such as painting , possibly replacing some siding ,
shutters , etc . , that is , a general sprucing up of the buildings .
Mr . Boehlecke concluded by noting that the proposal is mainly
interior conversion and changing the parking areas , remarking
that he had gone over the proposal many times before and hoped he
had covered it all again this time . Mr . Boehlecke stated that he
would be happy to answer questions if he could .
Chairman May asked Mr . Boehlecke if he had given the Board
any landscaping plan that is being proposed at this point . Mr .
Boehlecke stated that he had presented the tentative proposal .
Mr . Boehlecke passed 8 " x 10 " colored photographs of some of the
buildings among the Board members to show the existing situation .
Referring again to landscaping , Mr . Boehlecke noted that with
their proposal they had said there would be additional
landscaping to screen and define the parking areas . Mr .
Boehlecke distributed to the Board members a general plan of
landscaping proposal to do as a minimum , entitled " Planting
Diagram " . Mr . Boehlecke stated that the intent of the
landscaping is to provide adequate plantings , seeding , etc . , so
that people do not pull their cars in over the grass . Mr .
Boehlecke noted , on the drawing , the use of " paired lots " to
achieve this , and commented that they would either take advantage
• of existing landscaping or supplement it so that a 7 ' on center
results .
Mr . Mazza asked if there were to be any definition of these
lots by railroad ties or something of that nature . Mr . Boehlecke
stated that that would not be the case , adding that the
definition would be achieved by pavement - type area to grass area .
Mr . Klein asked if the parking lots will be blacktopped . Mr .
Lucente stated that they would be oiled and stoned in the usual
manner .
Speaking again of the landscaping plans , Mr . Boehlecke
stated that the plan just presented speaks to a minimum number of
plantings that will be done . Mr . Boehlecke stated that he did
not want to be too specific as to what goes exactly where , but
there is the commitment to that number of plants as a minimum .
Mr . Stanton spoke of the drainage with respect to the
driveways and noted that he believed it to be a relatively flat
area . Mr . Stanton asked if there were something for the runoff
to flow to . Mr . Lucente stated that water drains to the road
ditch now and , basically , that same grade will be kept .
Chairman May asked if there were anyone present who wished
to speak to the matter before the Board .
Mr . David G . Allen , 254 Sapsucker Woods Road spoke from the
e
floor and stated that he is a neighbor down the road . Mr . Allen
Planning Board 4 March 20 , 1984
• stated that he had two questions , the first being why this
rezoning is needed because Mr . Lucente basically got what he
wanted 18 years ago , Mr . Allen stated that what Mr . Lucente is
talking about is just general maintenance , as he saw it , which
any good landlord should do . Mr . Allen stated that his second
question was with regard to the number of units proposed to be in
each building . Mr . Boehlecke stated that the number proposed was
four . Mr . Allen asked for a definition of " family " . Mr .
Boehlecke responded that , in this particular matter , the answer
to that question lies with the Town Board . Chairman May stated
that at the present time the permitted , legal , occupancy of these
buildings is up to 14 unrelated persons , With respect to any
future occupancy in connection with this proposal , were it to be
approved , Chairman May read aloud from the Resolution adopted by
the Town Board on February 27 , 1984 , with respect to its
determination that no significant adverse impacts upon the
environment are presented by the proposal , as follows : " . . . 4o
there has been discussion by the Town Board to limit any rezoning
by the following occupancy restrictions : ( 1 ) each building would
be owned by no more than one owner , ( 2 ) occupancy of the one
bedroom apartment would be limited to two people , whether related
or not , ( 3 ) occupancy of the 2 - bedroom apartment would be limited
to a family plus one unrelated person , or no more than three
unrelated persons , ( 4 ) all aspects of the conversion of the 14
buildings shall comply with the 1984 New York State Uniform Fire
Prevention and Building Code . "
Mr . Allen wondered if
a precedent would not be set by
changing the zoning to accommodate one person . Mr . Allen stated
that his lot is bigger than Mr . Lucente ' s lots and wondered what
would happen if he wanted to change his lot to multiple
residence . Mr . Allen commented about the housing that is across
the street , which is in the Town of Dryden .
Mr . Mazza stated that it was important for him to be able to
determine whether the situation with respect to Mr . Lucente ' s 14
buildings would be improved or would be worsened by the proposed
conversion , Mr . Mazza asked if Mr . Allen , as a resident of the
area had any opinion on that . Mr . Allen said that he felt things
would be just the same .
Mrs . Jean Chabot , 246 Sapsucker Woods Road , spoke from the
floor and stated that past experience with and the performance of
Mr . Lucente leads the neighbors to doubt future action . Mr .
Mazza posed the proposition assuming that certain restrictions
such as those just read by Chairman May are in place and asked
if , under those circumstances , the situation with respect to
these 14 lots would be better or worse in the opinion of the
neighbors , Mr . Allen responded that the zoning ordinance has
been unenforced ; Mr . Lucente ' s buildings are in violation of the
zoning ordinance ; how could these restrictions be enforced ? Mr .
Mazza offered , as a given , that Mr . Lucente has the right to
occupy his buildings in their present manner and asked if the
proposal under consideration at this meeting would make matters
' Planning Board 5 March 20 , 1984
• better or worse . Mr . Allen stated that he doubted very much that
it would be better .
Chairman May pointed out that the law suit which occurred
between the Town and Mr . Lucente some 15 years ago was won by Mr .
Lucente and , further , that Mr . Lucente is operating the buildings
under discussion in a legal manner . Chairman May noted that
there is no question of non - enforcement of the ordinance nor
violation of the ordinance . Chairman May stated that Mr . Lucente
is now before the Board with a proposal and the Board is in the
process of looking at that proposal in order to transmit a
recommendation thereon to the Town Board , Chairman May stated
that what has been proposed involves a reduction in the occupancy
level of each of the buildings , individual ownership of the
buildings and the possibility of owner - occupancy of the
buildings . Chairman May noted that Mr . Lucente has stated that
his interest is to put the buildings up for sale . Mr . Allen
asked if Mr . Lucente had proposed to put these buildings up for
sale on the public market . Mr . Lucente responded , yes , of
course . Mrs . Chabot stated that Mr . Lucente ' s proposal is really
just blackmail . Mr . Allen stated that Mr . Lucente has devalued
properties next door all the way down the street and asked why
someone over on Snyder Hill Road cannot pull off the same caper .
Mr . Mazza stated that what he really wished he could do is
find out the feelings of the neighbors on the present proposal .
He commented that it is a matter of being either the way it is
now or something better - - or worse . Mr . Mazza asked if the
neighbors had any suggestions , adding that it had been said that
this proposal was blackmail , however , in his opinion it was not ,
it was negotiation . Continuing , Mr . Mazza pointed out that ,
given the situation that Mr . Lucente has there , which is legal ,
this is a negotiating process to improve a situation which the
neighbors obviously feel is very bad . Mr . Allen stated that , if
this goes through , he should be entitled and so should the
Chabots or anyone in R15 , to the same kind of special
consideration .
Mr . Charles Walcott , Cornell University Laboratory of
Ornithology , spoke from the floor and stated that his concern is
one of precedent . Mr . Walcott stated that the pressure of
housing is increasing around the Sapsucker Woods Road Bird
Sanctuary and from their parochial view they want to keep the
meaning of the Sanctuary . Mr . Walcott stated that he was not
sure that this proposal imposes a threat but wondered if it does
set a precedence that would have to be followed .
Mr . Mazza stated that , with respect to the discussion of
precedence , he did not think the Town of Ithaca had within it any
other situation like this whereby dwellings in R15 could contain
up to 14 individuals . Mr . Mazza stated that an approval could
• set a precedence for a situation of this kind , perhaps , but this
is not a normal situation . Mr . Mazza stated that that is the way
he perceives that particular question . Mr . Mazza stated that he
was not speaking for or against the proposal , merely enunciating
Planning Board 6 March 20 , 1984
• the matter , as he saw it , that there is an existing situation
that is very unique in the Town . Chairman May stated that he
very much agreed , adding that he did not think that in any way
this should be looked at as precedent - setting . Chairman May
stated that every situation coming before the Board is looked at
individually . Chairman May stated that the Board is concerned
with what has been proposed as an improvement to the area
involving a reduction in occupancy levels , a reduction in the
number of cars , and an improved state of buildings . Mr . Allen
stated that he did not see how that is not the landlord ' s duty
now .
Mr . Stanton , speaking to Mr . Walcott of the Ornithology Lab ,
stated that he thought it fair to say that once a zoning plan is
in place one cannot say that it will never change because people
can , and do , make proposals and that will continue to occur .
Mr . Klein commented that the Board has seen this proposal
informally upon several occasions and since the first discussions
last June there has been a lot of water over the dam , adding that
he thought for the benefit of the public , a brief synopsis of the
last eight months might be helpful . Mr . Klein noted that , at
first , Mr . Lucente ' s proposal was for the conversion from two
dwelling units to four dwelling units and individual sale as
condominiums . Mr . Klein noted that a part of Mr . Lucente ' s
proposal was also a reduction in the number of occupants from the
. 14 which is currently legal , adding with respect to that , the
Town Board has placed a restriction such that the number of
future occupants may not exceed 10 . Mr . Klein stated that he
thought what that Board is missing is that they are not
stipulating owner occupancy which , in his opinion , was unwise in
that with all kinds of owners it is difficult to track down the
person responsible for the property and enforce conditions which
may have been imposed .
Mr . Lovi stated that the issue of owner -occupancy was
brought up at the Town Board level and there was some question as
to the legality of requiring that an owner occupy a building
which he owns . Mr . Lovi commented that there was some thinking
that that might not be enforceable . Mr . Lovi offered some
further history of this proposal , noting that in May or June of
last year Messrs . Lucente and Boehlecke met with him to discuss
different ways to move from the present situation to some other
situation . Mr . Lovi stated that at that time , as now , Mr .
Lucente expressed his intention to sell these units to other
persons . Mr . Lovi stated that three alternatives were in the
realm of possibility and were discussed , being ( 1 ) present the
proposal as a cluster . Mr . Lovi stated that , because of the
specifics of the Town ' s cluster regulations , that approach was
deemed impractical by Mr . Lucente because of many things , not the
least of which was additional land which would have to be
appended to these properties , ( 2 ) present the proposal as an
appeal to the Zoning Board of Appeals . Mr . Lovi stated that that
approach was rejected by Mr . Lucente because of the many
Planning Board 7 March 20 , 1984
• variances which would need to be granted , ( 3 ) present the
proposal as a request for rezoning the total acreage involved
from an R15 zone to a Multiple Residence zone wherein four
dwelling units in a structure are permitted . Mr . Lovi described
the discussions which ensued over the course of time , such as
selling in fee simple , homeowners ' association , condominiums ,
commenting that many different approaches were considered between
the developer and staff , the developer and Planning Board and the
developer and the Town Board up to the point at which we are this
evening , being Public Hearing of Mr . Lucente ' s request for the
rezoning of the land occupied by these 14 buildings from R15 to
Multiple Residence . Mr . Lovi spoke of some discussion having
taken place with respect to concern , once rezoned to a multiple
residence district , about tearing down the structures and
replacing them with apartments . Mr . Lovi pointed out that
restrictions could be written about that by the Town Board . Mr .
Lovi commented on the elusive question of improving something
which is non - conforming to something better .
Mr . Allen asked Mr . Lucente how much land he owned to the
rear of these parcels under discussion . Mr . Lucente responded
that there were about 40 or 50 acres back there . Mr . Allen asked
Mr . Lucente what his plans were for that land . Mr . Lucente
stated that it probably would be developed as single family under
R15 . A discussion followed between Mrs . Chabot , Mr . Allen and
Mr . Lucente with respect to Mr . Lucente ' s property in the Town of
• Dryden .
Chairman May asked if there were anyone else present who
wished to speak to the matter of the Lucente request for
rezoning . No one spoke . Chairman May declared the public
comment portion of the meeting closed at 8 : 15 p . m .
Mr . Mazza wished to speak to the Resolution of the Town
Board adopted on February 27th , specifically item # 4 , paragraph
# 3 thereof , which reads : " occupancy of the 2 - bedroom apartment
would be limited to a family plus one unrelated person , or no
more than three unrelated persons . " Mr . Mazza posed the
following question to Mr . Lucente - - if the family in the
two - bedroom unit is three or more , i . e . , husband , wife , and one
or more children , could he ( Lucente ) live with a condition
something like no unrelated persons in that apartment . Mr .
Lucente responded that the purpose of the three unrelated was
for , say , an elderly couple who might want to take in someone to
live with them for help or security .
Mr . Lovi offered the following as further explanation of the
intent of paragraph # 3 which would allow for no more than three
unrelated persons , stating the hypothesis of a man and a woman
living together and having a third person also in residence . Mr .
Mazza pointed out that , even so , with a husband and wife and two
kids even they could have a total of three unrelated persons in
the two -bedroom . Continuing , Mr . Mazza stated that he would also
like to see some restriction placed on the property in the event
Planning Board 8 March 20 , 1984
• they are torn down , or a portion torn down , commenting that the
owner could come back with a different building . Mr . Lovi
wondered if words in the rezoning effecting some sort of
reversion in that event would counter such an eventuality , or , if
a special approval approach would be more appropriate .
Mr . Lucente stated that his intention is to sell the whole
building to an individual who would live in it and rent out the
other three units . Mr . Klein stated that , if they were
owner - occupied , he thought it would be an improvement , adding , if
that condition cannot be imposed , he was not sure it would be
better . Mr . Lovi stated that the Town Attorney expressed some
doubt about the legality of requiring owner - occupancy . Mr . Mazza
stated that the Planning Board should ask the Town Attorney to
research that aspect and report back to the Board . Mr . Mazza
stated that he would like some more time to think about this , for
example , limiting the future of these buildings were they to be
torn down or destroyed , as well as the owner - occupancy question .
Mr . Lucente stated that it was okay by him , if there were , say a
fire , to require rebuilding in a like manner . Mr . Lucente spoke
in terms of , say , fifty years down the line , the property
reverting back to the R15 designation . Mr . Lovi stated that it
is important to take care of this as it may affect a case being
made before the Board of Appeals on the grounds of " hardship " .
Mr . Boehlecke pointed out the difficulties which would make any
future changes unlikely since the total area of all the lots is
• 5 . 9 acres and it is split by a road , thus , it is just too small .
MOTION by Mr . Montgomery May , seconded by Mr . Bernard
Stanton *
RESOLVED , that the Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca
adjourn and hereby does adjourn the Public Hearing in the matter
of rezoning request and site plan review with respect to the
property of Rocco P . Lucente , 108 through 230 Sapsucker Woods
Road , until Tuesday , April 3 , 1984 , at 7 : 45 p . m .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a
vote .
Aye - May , Schultz , Mazza , Stanton , Klein , Grigorov , Langhans .
Nay - None .
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously .
Chairman May requested of the Planning / Engineering staff
that a draft resolution be prepared for Board consideration and
that the various questions posed at this meeting be looked into ,
particularly discussion with the Town Attorney with respect to an
opinion from him on the matter of owner - occupancy .
Chairman May declared the Public Hearing in the matter of
the Lucente proposal with respect to lands located on Sapsucker
Planning Board 9 March 20 , 1984
• Woods Road duly adjourned to a specific date and time , noting
that such constituted notice to the neighbors .
Chairman May repeated his announcement that the Public
Hearing scheduled for 9 : 00 p . m . with respect to the Lake Shore
West development will not be held and will be adjourned , at the
request of the developer , until a future meeting of the Board ,
probably in April ,
PUBLIC HEARING0 CONSIDERATION OF PRELIMINARY SUBDIVISION
APPROVAL FOR A 40 -UNIT CLUSTERED SUBDIVISION DEVELOPMENT IN THE
VICINITY OF DOVE DRIVE . TAX PARCEL # 6 - 61 - 1 - 8 . 12 , 14 . 32 ACRES .
STANLEY GOLDBERG , OWNER / DEVELOPER ; JOHN NOVARR , BUILDER .
Chairman May declared the Public Hearing in the above - noted
matter duly opened at 8s40 p . m .
Mr . Fabbroni stated that he would like to offer , for both
the public ' s and the Board members ' information , some of the
background of the property under discussion before presentation
of the proposal by the developer , adding that some history of
this particular area of the Town may be in order so that allure
informed . Mr . Fabbroni stated that in 1976 developer Willis
Hilker came in and asked for approval , in concept , of a 43 - lot
subdivision in two phases [ 44 lots counting the site of the
original farmhouse ] . Mr . Fabbroni stated that Mr . Hilker then
• proceeded , after conceptual approval of a proposed layout by the
Planning Board , to final subdivision approval on 21 [ 22 ] of those
lots in Phase 1 . Mr . Fabbroni stated that a map was prepared for
the entire parcel delineating the boundaries of Phase 1 and Phase
2 , was approved by the Planning Board , and was filed at the
County Clerk ' s Office , Mr . Fabbroni stated that that is the
file , although amended twice , and is essentially the map approved
by the Planning Board in 1976 . Mr . Fabbroni stated that
subsequently development began with respect to those 21 [ 22 ]
lots , noting that utilities were put in and some of the lots were
built upon . Mr . Fabbroni stated that it was during this time
that Mr . Hilker declared bankruptcy and eventually Mr . Goldberg
took over the land which he had sold to Mr . Hilker and was , and
is , the owner again and , furthermore , since that time Mr .
Goldberg has sold off several of those lots to individual
builders or owners who have constructed houses . Mr . Fabbroni
pointed out that nine of the so - called front lots , a part of
Phase 1 , remain to be sold . Mr . Fabbroni stated that , with
respect to the 22 back lots , i . e . , Phase 2 , which are located in
the back portion of approximately 14 acres , those back 14 acres
were never given final subdivision approval of any kind , adding
that the records at the Court House and the Tax Assessment Office
will verify that . Mr . Fabbroni reiterated that nothing was ever
done with regard to the back acreage ,
Mr . John Novarr appeared before the Board at this point and
appended three colored drawings to the bulletin board - - ( 1 ) Site
Plan , entitled " Snyder Hill Townhouses " , also showing proposed
4
Planning Board 10 March 20 , 1984
• property lines , ( 2 ) Floor Plans and Elevations , ( 3 ) Preliminary
Planting and Grading Plan . Utilizing the drawings during his
presentation , Mr . Novarr stated that the proposal involves the
building upon the back acreage 40 townhouses clustered in groups
of two or groups of four . Mr . Novarr noted that the portion in
red denotes the townhouses , the blue is the carports with a
carport for each townhouse , the green portion represents a
designated Town park in which the Town has expressed interest ,
and the shaded area in the middle is a piece of land which the
developers will retain until all the lots are sold and then will
be offered to the entire group or to people adjacent thereto .
Referring to the floor and elevation plan , Mr . Novarr stated that
that plan represents what the apartments or townhouses will look
like , in plan , and the facade drawing is there so that there will
be an understanding of what they will look like on the outside .
Mr . Novarr stated that there will be no more homes on the land
than what the current Town zoning allows , adding that , actually ,
the number falls about 4 short of what could be built under
current zoning , the difference being the grouping of the units
under cluster provisions . Mr . Novarr stated that the cluster
approach offers some economic advantages and also leaves more
space for patio and private use . Mr . Novarr recalled that one of
the Board ' s questions had been about how the land was going to be
divided up , and stated that that is why the proposal is now for
four - plexes rather than six - plexes . Mr . Novarr stated that these
homes will be sold in fee simple . Mr . Novarr commented that
there is little difference between buying a townhouse and a home
on a traditional lot , noting that , in this case , one buys a home
and an individual carport with easement to get to the carport .
Mr . Novarr recalled the discussions with the Board with respect
to the earlier proposal for a park in the middle , commenting that
the Board clearly did not like that , and adding that , after a
while , they did not like that either . Mr . Novarr stated that
that area would be gifted individually to adjacent owners or to
the owners as a group . Mr . Novarr pointed out a green area on
the site plan which , he noted , was the area that the Board
indicated as a park it would like to have . Mr . Novarr stated
that the original plan discussed at the informal meetings with
the Board had 48 units in it , commenting that it seemed to be a
foregone conclusion that it should be 40 units . Mr . Novarr
stated that the landscape plan shows the reality in trees , shows
the drainage , and even names the trees and shrubs they plan to
put in .
Mr . Novarr introduced his colleagues , naming Mr . Ian Tyndall
of Cambridge , Massachusetts , as the architect , Mr . Martin Shapiro
as their attorney , Mr . Stanley Goldberg , the owner of the land ,
and Mr . William Reed , as financial advisor .
Mr . Lovi suggested that before discussion goes too much
further , the Board should consider the Environmental Assessment
Form ( Long Form ) , dated March 5 , 1984 , which had been submitted
by Mr . Novarr , a copy of which each of the Board members had
received .
Planning Board 11 March 20 , 1984
• Chairman May asked if there were any questions from the
Board before moving on to discussion of the EAF .
Mrs . Grigorov wished to have it clarified whether , or not ,
all of the lots in the approved portion have houses on them right
now . Mr . Goldberg , indicating on the site plan , pointed out the
lots upon which there are presently homes either completed or
under construction , and pointed out the nine lots which have no
homes in place .
There being no further questions from the Board , Mr . Lovi
reviewed the Long Form EAF , reading aloud each question and each
answer , page by page , number by number , with some personal
observations on a couple of questions and some brief explanation
on a couple of others . Mr . Lovi stated that , as for his review ,
he had recommended a negative declaration and had suggested a
resolution to that effect . Chairman May asked if there were any
comments on the EAF as presented and reviewed . Mr . Novarr
commented that this is it , adding that there will never be any
further development of this property and further that , if the
Board were concerned with the center portion , there will be no
development there . Chairman May pointed out that the 9 remaining
front lots will be developed . Mr . Novarr stated that that was
correct , adding that they do not want to affect the selling of
those lots by inferior development of the back portion .
• Mr . Mazza asked that Mr . Lovi explain , for the benefit of
the public , the meaning of clustering . Mr . Lovi briefly
described Town Law Section 281 , as amended , as the enabling
legislation permitting a Planning Board to be delegated the
authority by the Town Board to cluster homes on a parcel in
another manner than a standard grid subdivision . Mr . Lovi
briefly described the Town of Ithaca cluster regulations adopted
pursuant to Section 281 which are a part of the Town Subdivision
Regulations . Mr . Lovi noted that clustering permits no more
dwelling units on a particular parcel than the zone designation
of such parcel permits . Mr . Lovi stated that the way by which
the number of units permitted in a cluster proposal is arrived at
is important , noting that under the standard subdivision approach
44 dwelling units are permitted on the parcel under discussion ,
but , because it is a cluster proposal , it is necessary to envoke
the cluster regulations which require no more than 3 . 5 units per
gross acre read concurrently with the requirement for road
acreage removed , thus , 40 units is permitted under the cluster
approach on this 14 . 32 acre parcel . Mr . Lovi also commented
briefly on the difference between Commonland Community and Mr .
Novarr ' s proposal , noting , for example , that there is a
homeowners ' association at Commonland , there is none proposed
here , individual parcels being offered in fee simple to
individual owners with a proposal of the open space being gifted
either to individual owners or as a group . Mr . Novarr , at this
• point , stated that there was also one other possibility , being if
the Town still wants that open space at some time , it will still
be talked about . Mr . Fabbroni commented that he agreed with Mr .
• Planning Board 12 March 20 , 1984
• Lovi ' s description of the reasoning for the 40 - unit proposal ,
adding that after one comes up with 44 , in this case , the 3 . 5 per
acre limits one to the 40 . Mr . Mazza noted that some land was
excluded , as described - - some was definitely taken out - -
otherwise , one would get about 50 units .
Mr . Robert Schwarting , 112 Park Lane , spoke from the floor ,
and stated that he was present tonight at the behest of the
residents of Dove Drive , Pheasant Lane , Snyder Hill Road , and , in
addition , at the behest of the residents of Eastern Heights . Mr .
Schwarting stated that he wished to speak to the matter of the
EAF . Mr . Schwarting stated that the character of the community ,
although both two - family residences and clustered housing are
permitted under the Town zoning , is now , currently , by the
occupancy there , single family . Mr . Schwarting stated that the
land is zoned R15 and there is no question about that , Mr .
Schwarting indicated that his principal question was with regard
to the requirement that the EAF be submitted ten days prior to
the Planning Board meeting at which the matter is to be
discussed , noting that , in this case , Mr . Novarr had signed the
EAF on March 13th , Chairman May noted that the EAF was dated
March 5 . The Secretary explained that the EAF had been received
on March 5th as dated , however , it was during his reviewing of
the document and his signing of it on March 13th that Mr . Lovi
noted that Mr . Novarr had forgotten to sign it ; Mr . Novarr came
in and signed it . Mr . Schwarting accepted the explanation . Mr .
Schwarting stated that he was also concerned with the indication
that there were no rare species on the parcel in question and
spoke of certain EMC ( Environmental Management Council )
statements which refer to rare flora present . Mr . Lovi briefly
described the criteria for " rare and endangered " species being
referenced on an EAF and stated that , in his opinion as reviewer ,
the answer was appropriate ,
Mrs . Pamela Rosenberg , 38 Dove Drive , spoke from the floor
and referred to question # 34 on the EAF which describes the
vegetation existing on the site . Mrs . Rosenberg stated that
there was a considerable amount of tree species less than 30 ' in
height , several of which are 6 ' to 10 ' in height and there are
many evergreens . Mrs . Rosenberg stated that Mr . Novarr had
marked that part of the question " no " and that was not the
correct answer . Mrs . Rosenberg stated that , in addition to that
problem , she had a letter , which she submitted to the Board , from
Scott Camazine , M . D . , a Visiting Fellow in the Department of
Plant Science at Cornell who resides at 36 Dove Drive , which
states that this development would be detrimental to the ecology
of the nearby environment because the area to be constructed upon
and the adjoining wooded areas contain a number of protected ,
rare and unusual native plants . Mr . Fabbroni asked if endangered
plant species had been identified . Mr . Bernard Hutchins , 1
Pheasant Lane , spoke from the floor and stated that fringed
Polygala , Trillium , and other unusual plants are there . Chairman
May asked if there were any publication of these plants on a map
• Planning Board 13 March 20 , 1984
relating to endangered plant species . No indication of such
documentation came forth .
Mrs . Ann Goldfarb -Clapp , 120 Eastern Heights Drive , spoke
from the floor and stated that the road was certainly named
Pheasant Lane for some reason , and described how she and her
family enjoy walks up there to watch the pheasants breeding .
Mrs . Nancy Jackson , 6 Pheasant Lane , spoke from the floor
and referred to question # 51 on the EAF which indicates that
residences are intended for the medium income segment , a few high
income segment , families , and elderly . Mrs . Jackson stated that
it is very unlikely for elderly to live that distant from the
City , to live in a place with two stories , and to live where
their carport is away from their home . Mr . Fabbroni stated that
he had no difficulty in accepting the indication by the builder
that he expected to sell some of his units to elderly , adding
that he would have to question the assumption that elderly people
do not live in two - story houses although he supposed it depended
on one ' s personal definition of " elderly " .
Mrs . Rosenberg referred to question # 52 on the EAF , which
speaks to whether the proposal will substantially change the
socio - economic population distribution with regard to income ,
race , ethnic background , or age , noted that the answer given was
" no " , and stated that she had made note of a comment made by Mr .
Lovi . Mrs . Rosenberg stated that she had a Doctorate in
Sociology and would point out that the existing socio - economic
factor for this neighborhood is : ( a ) families ; ( b ) people of a
certain economic sector . Dr . Rosenberg stated that Mr . Lovi ' s
comment had been that these units could generally appeal to
people who would otherwise be in a rental unit . Mr . Lovi stated
that he assumed Mrs . Rosenberg was referring to one of his
comments which referred to the question , # 49 , he believed , which
refers to shifts in population as a result of this project , the
answer to which was " none " and with which he had no problem .
Mr . Schwarting explained what Dr . Rosenberg meant , stating
that the point she was trying to make was that a couple , or a
family , of the $ 30 , 000 income level does not fit with the $ 50 , 000
to $ 60 , 000 houses existing there . Mr . Lovi briefly described the
problems inherent with establishing causal links between income
and the value of a house one lives in , commenting on certain
facets of the study of societal motivation which indicate rather
clearly that persons who may be considered , under certain
criteria , as " low income " live in $ 70 , 000 homes and , on the other
hand some of relatively high income choose to reside in modest
homes .
Mr . Mario Giannella , 6 Dove Drive , spoke from the floor and
stated that he would like to say that a great proportion of the
people currently residing in the Dove Drive area have just
recently moved in and did pay current value for much of the
housing in the area . Mr . Giannella stated that the housing is
Planning Board 14 March 20 , 1984
predominantly single family . Mrs . Jackson stated that five
families out of eleven have moved in in the last year and a half ,
purchasing in a specific area because of the way it looks .
Mr . Hasan Padamsee , 103 Skyvue Road , spoke from the floor
and pointed out question # 12 which shows an increase of 300 cars
a day . Mr . Fabbroni stated that , first he would note that the
projection for traffic generated is in terms of 300 trips per
day , and then say that the increase in traffic would be about
four times what currently uses Dove Drive now with respect to the
number there and the number contemplated . Mr . Fabbroni stated
that in terms of a local street that is normal and not , by any
means , out of scale for a local street . Mr . Fabbroni stated that
anything under 1 , 500 cars a day is considered local residential
traffic . Mr . Padamsee stated that the Town cannot handle Snyder
Hill Road now in the winter and in maintenance , and wondered how
it can do 20 % more . Mr . Lovi noted that whether the parcel is
developed as a clustered subdivision or as a standard
subdivision , the same number of trips per day would apply .
Mr . Giannella stated that the original proposal for this
part of the subdivision was 22 lots , 22 houses . Mr . Giannella
stated that single family homes are in the neighborhood so Phase
2 would probably have been of that nature , therefore , there would
be 22 dwelling units rather than 40 and the density less and
traffic less ,
Mr . Wayne Corapi , 4 Pheasant Lane , spoke from the floor and
stated that he recently purchased his property and his house is
now under construction . Mr . Corapi stated that the prime reason
for his purchasing there was the lack of traffic and , in
addition , on October 15th , 1983 , prior to purchase , he was shown
a plan for development which he was told was planned and approved
by the Town . Mr . Corapi stated that he asked how the area was to
be developed and Mr . Golberg told him that he had no time to
develop the land now but , if developed , it would be developed
according to the plan shown with lots equivalent to his .
Mr . Schwarting explained what is being perceived by the
homeowners , stating that , however one counts it , with a maximum
of three per lot usually , therefore , they see three registered
vehicles . Mr . Schwarting stated that , if there were 22 units ,
there would probably be not more than 66 valid drivers , but ,
under the proposal , they see 120 drivers and , therefore , a
doubling of density and automobiles . Mr . Lovi stated that in the
cluster regulations the point being raised by Mr . Schwarting is
explicitly raised such that the Planning Board can restrict the
number of unrelated persons . Mr . Lovi referred to just an action
by the Board with regard to Commonland where the number of
unrelated persons permitted in the one - bedroom units is less than
three . Mr . Lovi commented that that was a good question and
noted that appropriate provisions are in the cluster regulations .
Mr . Schwarting commented that he got the number " 120 " from page 6
Planning Board 15 March 20 , 1984
of the EAF , question # 48 , which indicates that the number of
planned permanent residents is approximately 120 .
Mrs . Grigorov wondered why there were no substantial trees .
Mr . Goldberg stated that farming took place there in the early
' 60s , adding that it was the Frank Backner Farm and that it had
to be mowed because of fire regulations . Chairman May stated
that Mr . Fabbroni had just brought down the aerial photo from the
Engineering Office . Mr . Fabbroni reviewed the 1980 aerial photo ,
indicated the parcel under discussion , and it was agreed that it
was pretty clear ,
Mr . Novarr noted that there is a plan , Hilker ' s plan , which
shows Phase 1 on it and the proposal for the back . Both Mr . Lovi
and Mr . Fabbroni stated that there is no final subdivision plan
for the back lots .
Discussion followed with respect to the matter of endangered
plant species , the question being whether trillium , fringed
polygala , coralroot orchid , ferns and clubmosses , bloodroot , and
butterflyweed , were such ; it was noted that the New York State
protected plant list does not carry with it indication that these
are endangered plants .
Chairman May asked what the Board ' s pleasure might be with
respect to the EAF and any changes thereon . Mr . Stanton
suggested that the listing of protected plants as described in
Dr . Camazine ' s letter be shown on question # 41 . The Board
agreed . The answer to question # 41 was clarified to incorporate
the series of protected plants as indicated by Dr . Scott
Camazine , by reference , to his letter of 3 / 20 / 84 . Mr . Novarr
agreed to this amendment of his EAF . Mr . Stanton suggested that
the answer to question # 34 could be changed to indicate that
there are some young tree species less than 30 feet tall . The
Board agreed , as did Mr . Novarr ; # 34 was so amended , Mr . Mazza
pointed out that there are 11 buildings , not 10 , as indicated in
question # 10 , The Board agreed , as did Mr . Novarr ; # 10 was so
amended . With respect to question # 51 , Mr . Novarr stated that he
did not know that much about Commonland Community , but he did
know about people moving down in house size . Mr . Novarr
described what he said Mr . Reed might term " empty - nesters " . Mr .
Lovi stated that he felt that there really would be no
substantial socio - economic change within the SEQR meaning of
such . Mr . Novarr described certain older people who have two
homes - - one here for the summer and one in Florida for the
winter . Dr . Rosenberg asked if the apartments in Commonland are
one - story or two - story , expressing her concern about older
persons managing the stairs . Mr . Lovi stated that the homes in
Commonland are two - storied . Mr . Fabbroni commented that there
are all kinds of elderly in all shapes and sizes , some of whom he
knew could go up and down stairs , Mrs . Jackson asked why Mr .
Novarr had not checked the box [ question # 511 marked " students " .
Mrs . Schultz pointed out that these units are to be sold . A
discussion followed with regard to parents who purchase homes for
Planning Board 16 March 20 , 1984
their children who are students at Cornell University . Mr . Mazza
. pointed out that the applicant completes the EAF and this is an
indication of what this project is intended for , adding that if
he is not intending that these apartments be for the student
market , he can say that . Mr . Novarr stated that they have a
marketing approach and students are not their target , but
possibly a student might wish to buy a single family house and in
that case he was not sure how that could be stopped . Mrs .
Beverly Livesay wondered if the units would all be built and then
sold or would there be phasing . Mr . Novarr responded that the
project would be built in phases , say 10 and then sold , then
build next phase , and so on . It was decided by the Board , with
Mr . Novarr agreeing , that # 51 remain unchanged .
Mr . Fabbroni commented on the earlier comments of Mr .
Schwarting with respect to the picture of 22 units and 66
drivers , stating that 66 would be the low end of the range . Mr .
Fabbroni spoke of $ 125 , 000 homes up in the Northeast Town of
Ithaca , 5 out of 9 being two - family , stating that to work from 66
is not necessarily a good number to work from . Mr . Fabbroni
stated that what was discussed with the developer was an average
of two unrelated persons per unit through this whole development ,
for instance , the four - unit structure would equal 8 unrelated
persons . Noting again that to work from 66 is the low end of the
range , Mr . Fabbroni commented that , at the very least , he would
work from 33 [ units ],
Mr . Giannella stated that this project is a change in the
neighborhood , noting that the existing homes on Dove Drive and
Pheasant Lane are single family . Mr . Lovi stated that he could
not support a change in the answers to those questions referring
to socio - economic change since he felt that that would not occur .
Mr . Mazza stated that he did not define a " neighborhood " as
what is on these two streets .
Mr . Schwarting stated that it is usual that a one - family
home may have three unrelated persons in residence , however , with
regard to two - family houses there is an aspect of certain
properties in the neighborhood which causes great concern . Mr .
Schwarting described the lack of enforcement of the occupancy
rules as it applies to several two - family houses in Eastern
Heights , Mr . Schwarting stated that the residents here tonight
are fearful of the spread of this problem to their area . Mr .
Lovi read aloud Section 35 [ page 241 of the Subdivision
Regulations : " As a condition of approval of a clustered
subdivision plan , the Planning Board may restrict or require the
restriction of the number of unrelated persons who may be allowed
to live in any dwelling unit or in the clustered development as a
whole , to a number less than that permitted by the Zoning
Ordinance or Zoning Law , irrespective of any subsequent
revisions . These restrictions may be made conditions of
preliminary or final approval or placed on the subdivision plat
or included in the approval of any homeowners ' agreements ,
Planning Board 17 March 20 , 1984
covenants and bylaws , open space agreements , and / or similar
. documents subject to the final approval of the Town Board . No
Certificate of Occupancy or Compliance shall be issued for any
building or dwelling unit in a clustered subdivision unless the
Building Inspector has received written assurance that the owner
understands that he must abide by the terms and conditions
regulating the number of unrelated persons permitted to live in
the dwelling unit . "
Chairman May stated that if there were no further comments ,
he would close public comment on the EAF and ask for Board
comment . No further comments were forthcoming from the public ,
Chairman May closed the comment period at 9 : 55 p . m .
With regard to the discussions on protected plants , Mrs .
Schultz asked if the protected plants had to be set aside or
marked . Chairman May said that he thought not .
MOTION by Mr . Montgomery May , seconded by Mr . Bernard
Stanton *
RESOLVED , that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board , acting as
lead agency in the environmental review of the proposed 40 -unit
cluster subdivision development ( tax parcel # 6 - 61 - 1 - 8 . 12 , 14 . 32
acres ) in the vicinity of Dove Drive , approve and hereby does
approve the Environmental Assessment Form as completed , and
amended , and
FURTHER RESOLVED , that pursuant to Town of Ithaca Local Law
# 3 - 1980 , this action is classified as Type I . and
FURTHER RESOLVED , that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board has
determined from the Environmental Assessment Form and all
pertinent information that the above -mentioned action will not
significantly impact the environment and , therefore , will not
require further environmental review .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a
vote .
Aye - May , Schultz , Mazza , Stanton , Klein , Grigorov , Langhans .
Nay - None .
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously .
Chairman May stated that discussion would now turn to the
matter of consideration of preliminary subdivision approval .
Mr . Stanton stated that he would like to comment that , to
him , the new arrangement being presented tonight is more
appropriate were he to place himself in the position of someone
who might buy a home there , adding that he would now know where
his land is . Mr . Stanton stated that he felt it to be a much
better plan . Mr . Novarr stated that they have a lot to thank Mr .
Planning Board 18 March 20 , 1984
Stanton , the Board , and the staff for , adding that it is a much
. more saleable plan as a result of all the meetings .
Mr . Mazza stated that , as he understood it , on an individual
lot there will be no more than two units . Mr . Novarr stated that
that was not the case - - there is one unit per lot . Mr . Novarr
described to the public the lots using the plan on the bulletin
board , commenting on " funny - shaped " lots , big lots and little
lots .
Chairman May commented that he was a little confused as to
where the lighting is . Mr . Ian Tyndall indicated the lighting ,
shown in yellow , on the big plan on the board . Chairman May
wondered if there were to be sufficient light for anyone not to
be in a shadow while getting from their carport to their
individual home . Mr . Mazza asked what kind of lighting was being
considered . Mr . Tyndall stated that the project will be lit to
street lighting standards . Chairman May commented that it would
seem to be important that the carport area be lit for protection .
Mr . Novarr stated that that is their intention also . Chairman
May asked about provisions for trash . Mr . Novarr apologized for
that not being clear on the plan , stating that that will have to
be there . Mr . Novarr spoke of a trash accummulation area
delineated for each homeowner . Mrs . Langhans wondered if they
were considering having dumpsters . Mr . Novarr stated that he ,
personally , thought dumpsters were ugly and would take care of
trash in a nicer way . Chairman May stated that the Board would
need to know that , with Mr . Novarr responding , absolutely . Mr .
Mazza asked about the " little squares " on the plan . Mr . Tyndall
stated that those delineated patios for the smaller yarded units ,
commenting on areas with trellises and hedges and referring to
them as really a little yard which will make the centre units a
little more attractive .
Mr . Klein stated that he , too , appreciated the improvements
made to the site plan . Mr . Klein recalled that one of the
Board ' s questions last time had to do with some concern with
upkeep of the common areas . Mr . Klein noted that the developer
does not want a homeowners ' association and stated that the
proposal involves a common path and common sidewalks . Mr . Klein
asked how those things will be taken care of . Mr . Novarr stated
that the sidewalks are owned by those on whose property they sit
which is no different from City properties and the responsibility
for shovelling and maintaining is just like anywhere else . Mr .
Klein inquired about the same sort of thing with regard to the
blacktop areas . Mr . Novarr stated that the carport is owned by
the homeowner as well as the place in front of it and is his
responsibility . Mr . Novarr stated that the street will be built
to Town specifications and will be owned by the Town . Mr . Klein
commented that , operationally , it could be a difficult item . Mr .
Klein stated that , at the previous meetings , he had expressed
that he did not like the garages ' location , adding that he still
saw problems there because they are remotely located from the
units . Mr . Klein stated that , even though there is allocation
Planning Board 19 March 20 , 1984
for two parking spaces , he thought there is a potential to have
. an awful lot of street parking because the units are remote . Mr .
Klein stated that he also could see people backing their cars
into the roadway from their carport into a public road . Mr .
Klein wondered why the developer did not consider clustering the
garages and having some kind of courtyard , commenting that it
could be tastefully done as , say , a carpark , more enclosed and
not so visible to the street . Mr . Klein commented that , with
different owners , there is the potential for the carports having
a messy appearance . Mr . Klein stated that he thought the units
to be woefully lacking in storage , wondering where people would
put their implements for the maintenance of those bigger yards
and noting that there could be a limit for storage , because of
security , in these carports . Mr . Novarr stated that there is
adequate storage in the attic of every building , adding , however ,
that that was not what Mr . Klein was talking about . Chairman May
commented that Mr . Novarr was correct ; Mr . Klein was talking
about carports or garages , Mr . Novarr stated that they envision
them as somewhere in between a carport and a garage . Mr . Lovi
asked if there were to be a door on the front . Mr . Novarr stated
that they did not plan that . Mr . Novarr stated that he thought
what he was hearing is that he has to re -work the garages and he
did not have a problem with that . Mr . Tyndall stated that he
agreed that they do need to make provision for the kind of
storage referred to by Mr . Klein and that could be in the back of
the carport / garage . Mr . Tyndall continued and pointed out that
the farthest distance for a homeowner to his garage is 601
,
adding that , by any standards , that is not a long walk . Mrs .
Langhans thought it could be were one carrying groceries . Mr .
Tyndall stated that they chose to cluster the garages and also to
separate them in order that from your home you could look out
over the back or the front and see the neighborhood . Chairman
May commented that the garages were opposite each other and the
residents could back into each other . Mr . Novarr responded that
he thought most everybody backed out of their driveway into the
road .
Mr . Schwarting stated that he and all the residents are here
prepared to make substantial comments . Mr . Schwarting stated
that all the neighbors , as the Board can probably tell , are
opposed . Mr . Schwarting commenced reading from the Subdivision
Regulations , Article V . Section 32 , paragraph 4 , sub - paragraph
( a ) , as follows : " will such a development be substantially and
materially injurious to the ownership , use and enjoyment of other
property in the vicinity or neighborhood ; " Mr . Schwarting stated
that the answer is " yes " ; the injury is real ; the neighbors will
not enjoy the development . Mr . Schwarting continued with
sub - paragraph ( b ) : " will such a development impede the orderly
development of land in the vicinity or neighborhood , and will
such use be appropriate in appearance and in harmony with the
existing or intended character of such land in the vicinity or
neighborhood ; " Mr . Schwarting stated that the answer is
" negative " by all the neighbors . Mr . Schwarting stated that he
was , personally , very familiar with the problems with these kinds
Planning Board 20 March 20 , 1984
of developments because he lived in one just like it in Germany .
Mr . Schwarting pointed out that in Europe the government had ways
of enforcing regulations which are not avenues open to the Town
of Ithaca and , even there , the maintenance of and the appearance
of the developments was a very difficult thing to handle .
Chairman May commented that Mr . Schwarting was speaking in terms
of a lot of generalities and asked if he could be more specific .
Mr . Schwarting stated that , if this is approved , it should be
clear to the developer that he will have to listen to the
neighbors who will keep him informed of the rules and regulations
to be followed . Mr . Schwarting offered his services , stating
that he would be more than happy to work with the Board and with
the developer , to meet with them , now and throughout the approval
process so that all the problems can be worked on and everybody
knows what has to be done .
Mr . Roger Allen , 215 Snyder Hill Road , spoke from the floor
and stated that there appears to be a real problem of density in
the Eastern Heights area . Mr . Allen stated that it is not good
now , adding that the residents are presently very concerned about
it and , in addition , these proposed townhouses will certainly add
to it . Mr . Allen stated that it is not only the 300 trips per
day but it is people on their way to East Hill Plaza imposing a
real burden on the Crances , the Redmonds , etc . Chairman May
commented that the 300 trips a day is not out of line , adding
that , even if you said 600 a day , it would be pretty normal . Mr .
Lovi stated , as a point of information , that the 300 a day
notation is the appropriate doubling of the number 150 , noting
that that was what was done = - 150 x 2 = 300 . Chairman May
commented that that was actually a very insignificant number .
Mr . Allen stated that when you live there and see what happens ,
we are talking about a major increase . Mr . Mazza wondered if it
would be different under the way the development was proposed a
long time ago . Mr . Fabbroni commented that it is all rule of
thumb and varies with every single family and the individual
choices of people , adding that he thought there really ought to
be more concern about what happens in the Town of Dryden than
what happens on this parcel of land . Mr . Allen stated that what
is being talked about is a doubling of the area . Mr . Fabbroni
stated that traffic counts have been done all over the Town and
anything under 1 , 500 is almost too little to hone in on as a
signficant factor . Mr . Fabbroni commented that there are other
things that should take up the residents ' time .
Mr . Schwarting stated that as a traffic engineer he agreed
with Mr . Fabbroni , Mr . Schwarting stated that the traffic
problem that they have has to do with duplexes . Mr . Schwarting
explained that what the residents are worried about is a
continuation of the problem they see behind them in Eastern
Heights ,
Mr . Lovi stated that it is useful to bear in mind that each
one of these units will be a single family household so its
characteristics are more similar to a single family development
Planning Board 21 March 20 , 1984
than to Eastern Heights where there exist two - family houses
rented to students each with his own car and noted that here the
situation could be one of a husband and wife each with his or her
own car . Mr . Lovi suggested that one think of four single family
houses and think of the impacts of traffic , as one part of the
picture , and then think of 40 single family houses with those
impacts . Mr . Schwarting , asking if he may speak for the group ,
stated that they do not see this proposal as 40 single - family
units . Chairman May wondered why not , adding that the Board is
looking at 1 , 000 square foot units .
Mr . Mazza inquired if there were covenants that were going
to be provided . Mr . Goldberg responded , absolutely . Mr . Martin
A . Shapiro , Attorney for Messrs . Goldberg and Novarr , spoke from
the floor and stated that there are to be essentially two areas
with which the covenants deal , one of which relates to the land
itself - - that which is to be sold in fee simple with
corresponding carport , and , that which is to be retained by the
developer as open space and maintained for a certain period of
time . Mr . Shapiro stated that there will be deed restrictions in
each deed requiring certain things , among which will be levels of
maintenance with maintenance of walkways , rights of way , etc . ,
all by deed restrictions , the covenants setting forth certain
maintenance requirements and rebuilding restrictions . Mr .
Shapiro stated that the specific details of that have not been
put down in legal language yet but , in essence , should there be
fire damage , replacement must be substantially the same as before
such that there are no changes other than those necessitated by
the passage of time and changes in building materials and
building techniques . Mr . Shapiro stated that the second area
addressed by the covenants is to be occupancy , commenting that it
is his understanding that they are all to be single family
dwelling units , within the meaning of the Town zoning ordinance ,
and other considerations which may or may not be worked out . Mr .
Shapiro stated that it is not the intent to build a development
and start packing it up to here with 30 student per 1 , 000
square - foot unit , noting that there will be restrictions and they
will be carried over into the deeds . Mr . Shapiro referrred to an
earlier question or concern with regard to enforcement and stated
that the answer falls in two areas , commenting that the Planning
Board was right in that those things which will be under the Town
will be enforced by the Town . Mr . Shapiro commented that , as
City Attorney for eight years , the City did its best to do that
and , he was sure , the Town does too . Mr . Shapiro commented that
certain other problems may arise in this development , as well
they do in others , so he might add something about snow , ice ,
enforcement between neighbors since this is little bit different
from a City where the sidewalk is the responsibility of the owner
and , in problem cases , the City steps in and does required work
and bills the landowner . Mr . Shapiro stated that these rights of
enforcement will be in the deeds and they will enforce it . Mr .
Shapiro stated that he thought one of the purposes of this
• meeting is to see what sorts of specific problems the Board might
see and how we can resolve those problems . Mr . Shapiro stated
Planning Board 22 March 20 , 1984
that they are very open to the Board ' s suggestions with respect
to restrictions and covenants , up to a reasonable way , of course .
Mr . Shapiro stated that they want a marketable project . Mr .
Shapiro spoke of their consideration of the question of other
buildings and words effectively restricting to no accessory
buildings whatsoever , using as an example , an owner constructing
a summer house . Mr . Shapiro stated that , insofar as
improvements , " what you see is what will be there , " with no
additional structure permitted in the development other than what
they build themselves . Mr . Shapiro , commenting that there is one
thing not shown on the plan which he would also like to mention ,
stated that , obviously , they need some access to this interior
parcel ( indicating ) . Mr . Shapiro spoke of rights of way to
individuals to that middle area from the streets shown .
Mr . Mazza asked how long these restrictions will last and is
it not possible to have them removed by agreement of the
landowners . Mr . Shapiro stated that ( 1 ) he would expect the
restrictive covenants to last , noting that there have been court
cases limiting those , throughout the number of years set forth in
the restrictions and which would be a number that they think the
courts would think reasonable . Mr . Stanton wondered how long
that might be . Mr . Shapiro thought 20 to 25 years as a minimum .
Mr . Shapiro stated , with respect to Mr . Mazza ' s second question
about the owners getting together and agreeing on removal of
restrictive covenants , that there are two ways to go - - ( 1 ) as a
part of the Town ' s approval process , or , ( 2 ) make the Town the
beneficiary with the right to enforce but not the obligation .
Mr . Shapiro stated that that is what they intend to do , adding
that that would need Town approval . Mr . Shapiro commented on one
other thing in noting that the vast number of buyers will be
financing their units and in pointing out that banks are getting
very restrictive these days before they lend money . Mr . Shapiro
stated that what he is seeing more and more of is a bank
requirement for a Certificate of Occupancy from a Town or City ,
etc . , thus , these proposed covenants and restrictions must be
adhered to or the Town will not issue a certificate .
Dr . Rosenberg stated that the neighbors got into this
because of concern for the single family character of the
neighborhood and now they are hearing about certain restrictions
in order to make it appear like single family homes . Mr . Mazza
pointed out that it was going on eleven o ' clock and he thought
the Board should inform the developer what the further needs of
the Board were and adjourn .
Mr . Stanton stated that economic concerns were what he was
hearing and asked if the applicant could talk about the character
of the units . Mr . William Reed stated that the only way the
development makes any sense is to provide good quality , high
value , construction at a cost of $ 55 . 00 per square foot . Mr .
• Reed stated that their intention is to build a good , high
quality , single - family house and the fact that it is attached is
the only reason they can do that for that per square foot cost
Planning Board 23 March 20 , 1984
level . Mr . Reed stated that a prospective owner will be getting
good value for the money . Mr . Reed stated that they have done
some projections on how much a person or family can afford with a
10 % down payment and the financing of the remaining 900 , speaking
in terms of a couple with a combined income of $ 30 , 000 . Mr . Reed
stated that the three - bedroom units will run about $ 68 , 000 and
the two -bedroom around $ 59 , 000 .
Mr . Schwarting spoke about people who buy space for their
kid while a student at Cornell . Mr . Schwarting described certain
volumetric problems inherent with this type of housing . Mr .
Novarr stated that what is seen here in this proposal is all over
the country as someone ' s home . Mr . Novarr commented that just
because some of those present live in a bigger home , those sorts
of statements are not relevant . Mr . Shapiro also commented on
the matter of volumetrics , pointing out that one thing these
homes have is the land , adding that one does not find that kind
of land , that kind of lot , associated with an apartment .
Mrs . Grigorov commented that Eastern Heights may have an
occupancy problem but it is not caused by clustered homes . Mr .
Schwarting stated that the people are not opposing cluster . Dr .
Rosenberg stated that they are opposing attached houses of this
size . Mr . Giannella stated that this proposal is out of harmony
with what exists in the neighborhood today . Mr . Giannella stated
that he used to live in Eastern Heights and moved out of there to
Dove Drive because of all the two - family houses there and all the
problems with them as to occupancy . Chairman May pointed out
that all of this area , Eastern Heights , Dove Drive , Pheasant
Lane , etc . , is zoned R15 which permits one - and two - family homes ,
adding that there is no single family only zoning in the Town of
Ithaca . Chairman May stated that it also has been mandated by
the State that the Planning Board look at cluster - type
development as a means of preserving open space .
Mr . Gerardo Sciarra , 8 Pheasant Lane , spoke from the floor
and stated that he bought his lot one and a half years ago and
now they are building a carport in his backyard . Chairman May
explained the buffering requirements in the cluster regulations .
Mr . Stanton noted that the buffering requirements in cluster call
for setbacks which are even farther than under the R15 setback
requirements .
Noting that it was getting quite late , Chairman May
suggested that the Board put together a list of specific concerns
for the developer to address and adjourn . Mrs . Ann
Goldfarb -Clapp stated that she wished to know what happens if
these quad- plexes , built as single - family units , are not sold as
single - family units , adding that this is what happened in Eastern
Heights where a house is built , then sold , then sold to
investors , rented and not maintained . Mrs . Goldfarb - Clapp stated
• that these quad -plexes could be sold to investors too and then
rented . Mrs . Goldfarb - Clapp stated her concern with maintenance
and also the fact that these buildings are to be quad -plexes ,
Planning Board 24 March 20 , 1984
asking what would happen if one person drills into the house wall
and then water leaks onto the rugs of his next door neighbor and
further , who is responsible for this . Chairman May stated that
there are covenants which will be developed .
Mrs . Nancy Jackson stated that she wished to point out to
the Planning Board her major concern which was particularly with
a certain four lots and a certain three lots ( indicating ) which
are currently undeveloped . Mrs . Jackson asked what would become
of those undeveloped lots . Chairman May stated that those lots
( indicating ) will be developed as R15 lots .
Mr . Novarr noted that at no time will there be more than ten
to twelve built units and this proposal is not a means to build
and then rent . Mr . Novarr stated that they have had discussions
with the Town as to rental and under what circumstances that
would be acceptable , with the Town indicating that that would be
acceptable only for a time with a limited number of units . Mr .
Novarr stated that the worst scenario would be that ten or twelve
units are built and none are sold ; they would try to rent ; if
they are not sold over three or four years , which should not
happen , they will have lost the right to even have these lots .
Mr . Novarr stated that he did not think people should say that
this is a back - in -way to rental property .
Dr . Rosenberg stated to the Board that she had in her hand
nine letters and a Petition , consisting of four pages , opposing
this development and signed by over 100 residents . Dr . Rosenberg
stated that she would read them . Chairman May assured Dr .
Rosenberg that the letters and Petition would form a part of the
record of this meeting . Dr . Rosenberg requested that she be
given permission , at least , to read the Petion into the record .
Mr . Mazza stated that Dr . Rosenberg would be afforded the
opportunity to read the Petition at the next meeting , noting that
it was now well after eleven o ' clock , and adding that each of the
letters , as well as the Petition , will be included in the record .
Chairman May asked that the Board compile a listing of those
things which the developer should address at the next meeting on
this matter . The list developed was as follows :
1 . Garages and how they may be going to be dealt with .
2 . Covenants with some idea of the direction they will be
going .
3 . Provisions for taking care of garbage , trash , tools .
4 . Possibilities for lighting .
5 . Rights of way in covenants .
6 . Occupancy should also be a part of the covenants .
Chairman May stated that he would like to move to adjourn
but he did not know to when . Mr . Shapiro asked if he could speak
• and , upon being granted permission to do so , stated that , as is
always the case it seems , development should have a certain
momentum , thus , they would appreciate an adjournment to an as
Planning Board 25 March 20 , 1984
early as possible date . Mr . Shapiro stated that he could have
things in order as early as Monday , noted that he understood the
next meeting of the Board is in two weeks , and commented that a
month ' s delay at this preliminary stage pushes things quite far
into the construction season .
MOTION by Mr . Montgomery May , seconded by Mr . Bernard
Stanton .
RESOLVED , by the Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca that
the Public Hearing in the matter of consideration of preliminary
subdivision approval for a 40 - unit clustered subdivision in the
vicinity of Dove Drive , as proposed by Messrs . Goldberg and
Novarr , be and hereby is adjourned until Tuesday , April 3 , 1984 ,
at 8 : 30 p . m .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a
vote .
Aye - May , Schultz , Mazza , Stanton , Klein , Grigorov , Langhans .
Nay - None .
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously .
Chairman May declared the Public Hearing duly adjourned to a
specific date and time and that such constituted notice to the
neighbors .
ADJOURNMENT
Upon Motion , Chairman May declared the March 20 , 1984
meeting of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board duly adjourned at
11 : 30 p . m .
Respectfully submitted ,
Nancy M . Fuller , Secretary ,
Town of Ithaca Planning Board .