HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB Minutes 1983-11-15 TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD
NOVEMBER 15 , 1983
The Town of Ithaca Planning Board met in regular session on
Tuesday , November 15 , 1983 , in Town Hall , 126 East Seneca Street ,
Ithaca , New York , at 7 : 30 p . m .
PRESENT : Chairman Montgomery May , Barbara Schultz , James Baker ,
David Klein , Edward Mazza , Carolyn Grigorov , Lawrence
P . . Fabbroni ( Town Engineer ) , Peter M . Lovi ( Town
Planner ) , Nancy M . Fuller ( Secretary ) .
ALSO PRESENT : Harold Mix , Raymond V . Hemming , Jay Guyer , A . J .
Albrecht , Peter D . DuMont , Monica L . Perry , Sara
Jane Hymes , Walter J . Wiggins , Esq .
Chairman May declared the meeting duly opened at 7 : 30 p . m .
ADJOURNED PUBLIC HEARING ( FROM OCTOBER 18 ) IN RE SITE PLAN
APPROVAL FOR PROPOSED STORAGE BUILDING . THERM , INC .
Chairman May declared the Adjourned Public Hearing in the
above - noted matter duly opened at 7 : 30 p . m . and accepted for the
record the Clerk ' s Affidavit of Posting and Publication of the
Notice of Adjourned Public Hearing in Town Hall and the Ithaca
Journal on November 7 , 1983 and November 10 , 1983 , respectively .
Mr . Arnold J . Albrecht , representing Therm , Inc . , appeared
before the Board and noted that the Board members had received
copies of the new drawing . Mr . Albrecht commented that it was a
little different from the first drawing they had received for the
October 18th meeting , adding that the difference is that the size
is now known - - 50 ' x 200 ' . Mr . Albrecht pointed out that the
positioning of the building is about the same except that it is
now a little farther from the property line , i . e . , ten feet
farther . Mr . Albrecht also pointed out that it is now shown on
the plan that one can drive to it .
Chairman May noted that there is proposed to be 35 feet from
the building to the property line . Mr . Albrecht stated that that
was correct . Mr . Albrecht commented that he also put in a couple
of other things and proceeded to describe them . He pointed out
that the bigger rectangle is an extension of the last building
Therm built and is to be the same construction as before extended
out 50 feet . Mr . Albrecht noted that they are actually building
around an existing structure which is a just a little bit smaller
and then they tear down the wall inside . Mr . Albrecht pointed
out a proposed garage addition , for trucks , to the carpenter
shop . Mr . Albrecht stated that the construction of all this is
• either masonary or all steel , i . e . , the extension of the
warehouse is all steel and the garage will be masonary . Mr .
Albrecht stated that the construction of the 50 ' x 200 ' building
Planning Board 2 November 15 , 1983
is not known yet , however , it will either be steel or masonary ,
and all fire resistant . Mr . Albrecht noted the dotted lines on
the drawing as indicating where one can drive now and added that
the access will remain the same . Utilizing the drawing , Mr .
Albrecht showed the parking area , the creek on the property , and
the old Railroad right of way . Mr . Albrecht indicated where the
Town property that is adjacent to Therm property is located ,
mentioning that it is fairly near the proposed building . Mr .
Albrecht pointed out that the house , on Therm property , indicated
on the drawing is not occupied by people - - it is just a storage
area . Chairman May asked how much of the property is
blacktopped . Mr . Albrecht pointed out that there is none in the
area under discussion , however , he indicated on the drawing that
all the blacktopped area of Therm land is on their upper portion ,
stating that there is quite a bit of it there . Mr . Albrecht
pointed out the areas that are gravel , indicating on the drawing
the dotted lines depicting same . Mr . Mazza inquired if there
were any plans to change or expand further , to which Mr . Albrecht
replied , no , adding that . what appears to be additions to the big
Therm building are , actually , existing concrete pads .
Mr . Klein wondered why , with all the land Therm has
available , it picked this one particular site so close to the
residences for the big storage building . Mr . Albrecht stated
that , as he had indicated at the October meeting , it is fairly
• flat there , out of the way of any expansion , and is one of the
few spots Therm has that is flat . Mr . Albrecht commented that
there is a pretty good grade up there , adding also that with the
building located where it is proposed to be , it will really be
used for storage .
Chairman May asked if there were anyone present who wished
to speak to the Therm matter . No one spoke .
Mr . Klein noted that the section of the zoning ordinance
dealing with light industrial districts speaks to side yards and
rear yards . Mr . Klein stated that it was not entirely clear in
the case of the proposed storage building which is which ,
however , it does not really matter since the proposed building is
much closer to the property line than the ordinance requires ,
being a side yard of 60 feet and a rear yard of 50 feet . Mr .
Klein pointed out that the proposed structure is drawn much too
close to the property line and , further , there is no indication
of a buffer or a planting strip . Mr . Klein stated that the Board
should be looking at some of the minimums in the regulations .
Chairman May stated that the Board had talked before about
moving the proposed storage building and Mr . Albrecht did respond
to that . Chairman May commented that he must admit he was
confused a little about the fence and the property line , adding ,
however , that Mr . Klein ' s comments are very valid . Chairman May
• stated to Mr „ Albrecht that Therm does have some distance to work
with and the building could be moved and still not interfere with
any possible expansion some day which Therm might eventually
Planning Board 3 November 15 , 1983
• need . Mr . Albrecht agreed , adding , however , that the more he
moves the building the more it is out on fill and that is a
concern . He stated that there is fill there from prior
construction . Mrs . Schultz wondered how long the fill area had
been in place , to which Mr . Albrecht replied that it has been
there going on two years now .
Mr . Klein stated to Mr . Albrecht that he had talked about
staying out of possible expansion area but no expansion is
indicated on the drawing . Mr . Klein wondered what Therm was
thinking about in terms of expansion - - perhaps , doubling . Mr .
Albrecht stated that there were no plans for expansion but
because of grade , etc . , he would just like to keep those areas
that may some day be needed - - maybe years from now - - available .
Board discussion followed . Mr . Albrecht stated that if the
Board says - move it - he will move it . Mr . Klein pointed out to
Mr . Albrecht that his drawing shows very little information .
Chairman May stated that he hoped the Board did not mislead Mr .
Albrecht at the last meeting , however , two more extensions have
been added and perhaps the time has come to do a drawing of all
the site as it exists , as it may exist with known plans , and
maybe even with " best thinking " plans for the future . Chairman
May suggested that the drawing might well include the topography ,
grades , elevations sheets , and maybe some indication of when , as
best it can , Therm plans to do some of these things .
• Mr . Albrecht stated that all three of the " additions " shown
on the present drawing are immediate . Chairman May suggested
that buffering should be indicated and described a good drawing
with everything as is and what Therm sees as coming up as well as
it might be able to do . Chairman May suggested indicating
shrubbery and also defining what this building is going to be .
Mr . Albrecht stated that he had thought he should do that when he
applied for a building permit , commenting that they are not
designed yet . Referring to the two expansions , Mr . Albrecht
stated that he was going to apply for building permit in the next
few days . Mr . Fabbroni stated that he had no problem with those
two expansions , however , Therm is now getting to a scale that
might be starting to impact this neighborhood . Mr . Fabbroni
explained that that is the purpose of the 10 - foot landscape
buffer required under the ordinance . Mr . Fabbroni commented that
if this is the only place for this storage building , then there
is a need to pay more attention to a landscape buffer . Mr .
Fabbroni stated that the plan has to be somewhat projected
although he recognized the difficulty in knowing the future , but ,
as Therm adds space it may add employees , for example , and then
there is the: need for parking space ; now the question is - - where
does it go ?
Mr . Albrecht asked if there were anything the Board could do
• on the two expansions at this time .
MOTION by Mr . Montgomery May , seconded by Mr . Edward Mazza :
Planning Board 4 November 15 , 1983
• RESOLVED , that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board adjourn and
hereby does adjourn the Public Hearing with respect to Therm ,
Inc . until approximately 8 : 30 p . m . this evening , November 15 ,
1983 .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a
vote .
Aye - May , Schultz , Baker , Klein , Mazza , Grigorov .
Nay - None .
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously .
Chairman May declared the Public Hearing with respect to
Therm , Inc . duly adjourned .
PUBLIC HEARING : CONSIDERATION OF REQUEST FOR RE - ZONING FROM
RESIDENCE DISTRICT R - 9 TO MULTIPLE RESIDENCE DISTRICT . FORMER
KOPPERS CO . PROPERTY , 125 VINE STREET , TOWN OF ITHACA TAX PARCELS
NO . 6 - 59 - 1 - 1. , 59 - 1 - 3 , and 63 - 2 - 10 . 3 ; 2 . 77 ACRES . SUIT-KOTE
CORP . , OWNER , PETER DuMONT ( GALLAGHER COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES ) ,
AGENT ,
Chairman May declared the Public Hearing in the above -noted
matter duly opened at 8 : 07 p . m . and accepted for the record the
• Clerk ' s Affidavit of Posting and Publication of the Notice of
Public Hearings in Town Hall and the Ithaca Journal on November
7 , 1983 and November 10 , 1983 , respectively , together with the
Secretary ' s Affidavit of Service by Mail of said Notice upon the
various neighbors of the property in question , upon the Tompkins
County Commissioner of Planning , upon the Clerk of the City of
Ithaca , and upon Suit - Kote Corporation and Mr . Peter DuMont , as
parties to the matter .
Mr . DuMont appeared before the Board and stated that he
hoped the Board members had all seen the letter of submission .
The Board members had each received copies of same with their
Agendae . Thi letter of submission referred to by Mr . DuMont
reads as follows :
" Gallagher Commercial Properties
508 Savings Bank Building
Ithaca , New York 14850
November 4 , 1983
Planning Board
Town of Ithaca
Gallagher Commercial Properties , acting as Agent for Suit- Kote
Corporation , 1911 Lorings Crossing Road , Cortland , NY , hereby
requests a change in zoning from R- 9 Residential to Multiple
Residence District as per Article VI of the Zoning Ordinance ,
Town of Ithaca , for the property owned by Suit - Kote Corporation ,
Planning Board 5 November 15 , 1983
located on ' Mitchell Street , Town of Ithaca , as described and
recorded in the Tompkins County Clerk ' s Office , Book of Deeds 556
Page 563 and Book 561 Page 1036 , further identified as Town of
Ithaca Tax Parcels 59 - 1 - 1 , 59 - 1 - 3 and 63 - 2 - 10 . 3 . ( See Survey and
reference maps , attached ) .
The property consists of approximately 2 . 77 acres in a triangular
shape with interrupted Southerly frontage on Mitchell Street of
150 ' and 34 ' , a Westerly boundary of about 6862 ' , 30 ' at the
Northerly end and 786 ' along the Easterly line .
A substantial part of the parcel ( 750 ± ) is blacktopped , and
situated on the site are a number of large , above - ground asphalt
or emulsion tanks and some smaller drums and tanks , two
wood - frame buildings , and a 3000 sq . ft . main office building and
truck garage of about 3000 sq . ft , in area . The perimeter of the
parcel is surrounded by a chain - link fence with one entrance / exit
gate at the Southeast corner of the lot .
The existing use is a legal non - conforming use . It is currently
primarily used for truck maintenance and garaging , with no active
use of the storage tanks , at this time . Based on the current
use , the economic gain does not cover the Real Estate Tax expense
on the property .
The corporation is in the process of consolidating its operations
and real estate holdings , and wishes to declare this property
surplus , and dispose of it .
Under current Zoning restrictions , unless the present allowed use
was continued , single or two - family housing is allowed , or a
small number ( 10 ) of clustered condominium units can be
constructed .
Based on current site development cost projections and the lot
configuration , it is not economically feasible to develop the
parcel as single or two family housing . The ultimate selling
price of the structures would be considerably out of line with
existing nearby single and two - family properties . Considering
the possibility of clustered condominiums , the resulting market
price , because of the limited number of units allowable , would be
exceedingly high and of questionable marketability now or in the
forseeable future . It is also doubtful that a development of
this nature would fit the neighborhood . The proximity to Cornell
Quarters ( Immediately adjacent to the East ) which is a de facto
multiple residence district , and the type and price - range of
neighboring residential structures would not be commensurate with
a development of this nature .
It appears then , that the highest and best use of this parcel
would be :
• 1 . A carefully planned , slightly more dense condominium
development with a market price within the reach of upper -middle
income prospects and above .
Planning Board 6 November 15 , 1983
2 . A townhouse concept of rental properties , carefully
situated and landscaped to take advantage of the lot
configuration and private nature of the site .
3 . A single , medium- rise apartment building , tailored to
the site , set within park - like grounds , again , using to
advantage , the enclosed private setting .
Economic hardship exists on several levels :
1 . The current economic use of the facility does not meet
the costs of owning it .
2 . A reversion to full - time use as an asphalt plant is not
economically justified according to corporate plans .
3 . Abandonment , or maintaining the status quo is not
economically possible .
4 . The cost of developing the property within current
zoning restrictions makes the property virtually unsalable .
5 . The property has been for sale for the past five years .
One offer was received in that time that did not meet the selling
costs .
It therefore follows that a change in zoning to a Multiple
Residence District would assist in alleviating the economic
hardship experience by the owner , would substantially improve the
use of the land to the benefit of the Town , and would allow the
greatest flexibility of development to a potential buyer while
leaving a fair measure of control in the hands of the Planners
and Board of the Town of Ithaca .
Respectfully submitted ,
( sgd . ) Peter D . DuMont
Peter D . DuMont , Broker
Gallagher Commercial Properties ,
Agent for Suit - Kote Corporation , Owner .
xc : Suit -Kote
file
enclosures : Short Environmental Assessment Form
:Maps ( 2 ) "
Mr . DuNiont stated that , quite simply the property is for
sale and has been for sale off and on for a number of years - -
unsuccessfully . He stated that it is the feeling of the owners
that a change in zoning will assist in the sale , adding that they
do not choose to use it . Mr . DuMont stated that in the
submission letter he pointed out that he felt the highest and
best use of the parcel falls in the domain of a multiple
residence district . Mr . DuMont asked what the Board would like
to know .
Chairman May noted that presently Mr . DuMont does not have
any proposed site plan . Mr . DuMont stated that he did not , the
proposal is for rezoning . Mr . DuMont continued , stating that a
• rezoning enhances the potential for a developer and makes it more
marketable . Mr . DuMont pointed out that within the ordinance the
Planning Board will exercise a great deal of control as to what
Planning Board 7 November 15 , 1983
can eventually be developed there , commenting that between R - 9
and Multiple Residence what it boils down to is density and how
that is handled is what matters . Mr . DuMont described the
various aspects of the site and the various approaches that could
be utilized for development within the set back requirements of
Multiple Residence Districts . He described an area that could be
used if the parcel were developed for a single building use ,
noting that that approach would put the building fairly deep
within the lot . Mr . DuMont , indicating on the large drawing
version of the plan received by the Board , noted that there is a
large area within the odd - shaped parcel which is useless for a
structure . He stated that a building would be buffered from the
neighborhood and vice versa , adding that the entire property is
surrounded b :y a chain link fence . Mr . DuMont stated that he has
talked to a number of developers about the best use of this
parcel and it appears that multiple residence is that best use .
Mr . DuMont spoke of foot traffic to the bike path and , possibly ,
to Worth Street , however , pointing out that the main access would
be from Mitchell Street . With regard to traffic , Mr . DuMont
stated that , depending on the nature of the development , his
feelings are! that most would go in an easterly direction - -
toward Campus .
Chairman May asked Mr . DuMont how many years this property
has been a petroleum storage site , to which Mr . DuMont replied ,
since the ' 40s , adding that it has been in place since the
enactment of the Town Zoning Ordinance as a legal non - conforming
use . Chairman May asked how long the tanks have been in the
ground . Mr . DuMont replied that the seamless tanks have been
removed and the only things that remain are riveted tanks .
Chairman May asked what those riveted tanks contain , to which Mr .
DuMont replied , gunk . Chairman May inquired as to what has been
done on the site with reference to PCBs and other petroleum
products . Mr . DuMont stated that nothing has been done that he
knew of , adding that the bulk of the land where the tanks are is
a macadam surface although not in terrific repair . Chairman May
stated that he would think that would have to be done before much
could be done with that land . Mr . DuMont stated that , if this
were done under current zoning , say , single family homes , the
site preparation costs would be out of sight . Mr . DuMont noted
that several things would have to be removed - - the macadam , the
tanks , three buildings . Mr . DuMont described what he termed the
next current legal use and which could be around ten condominium
units under cluster which permits 3 . 5 units per acre . Chairman
May pointed out the 5 - acre requirement under the Town ' s Cluster
Regulations and stated that that could be out . Mr . DuMont stated
that what he has tried to show is a potential use for this land ,
adding that the owner could always continue the asphalt plant
which they do not want to do . Mr . DuMont commented that he lives
in the area and he really did not want that either .
Mr . Klein asked Mr . DuMont what the asking price for this
property is , with Mr . DuMont replying , $ 150 , 000 . 00 with some of
the removal being done by the owner , and adding , this is a
Planning Board 8 November 15 , 1983
negotiable figure depending on the amount of preparation . Mr .
Lovi inquired as to how much the asking price would go up if the
property were rezoned . Mr . DuMont stated that it would not go
up , that is the price . Mr . Mazza wondered why the price would
not go up and Mr . DuMont replied that they do not think it will .
Mr . Mazza suggested that the answer might be , then , to leave the
property the same and added that , otherwise , what is the purpose
of the economic hardship indicated . Mr . DuMont stated that he
had not been presenting an appeal citing economic hardship , his
intent was to indicate that the owners want to get rid of the
land .
Mr . Fabbroni stated that many of the points raised so far
have been valid , such as the point that the site needs a lot of
work , among others , however , price is a problem . Mr . Fabbroni
stated that , putting that aside , it would be easier to deal with
this matter if Mr . DuMont could locate a prospective buyer who
has half an idea of what he would like to do up there - - just for
an example , four buildings , 30 townhouses ; etc . Mr . Fabbroni
stated that with such an idea it is a lot easier to get into
seeing how it would affect the whole surrounds , or whether , as an
example , we might want to forget what happens to the side yard
distance to the old railroad track . Mr . Fabbroni expressed his
concern with " carte blanche " multiple zoning which would , he
felt , be very difficult to deal with . Mr . Fabbroni pointed out
that the next guy could very well plead economic hardship .
Mr . DuMont described some of theP roblems that had been
wrestled with in working with this property and pointed out that
with a single building containing 48 units , rounded to 50 units ,
and with a price tag of $ 150 , 000 , $ 3 , 000 per unit start - up cost
is way out of line for this area and , then , there are the added
costs of site preparation . Mr . DuMont stated that he tried to
point out in his letter three viable things that would go there
under these circumstances such as - - something slightly more
dense than a ten - unit condominium - - a townhouse concept of
rental properties - - or a single 48 - unit building , say , two
stories , three stories , or four stories . Indicating on the
drawing , Mr . DuMont pointed out where such a four - story structure
could well be located in an area around 135 ' x 801 . Speaking to
Mr . Fabbroni_ , Mr . DuMont stated that he felt the Planning Board ,
in consultation with him with his knowledge of planning and
zoning and the rules and regulations , a two - story structure being
permitted anyway , has the tools to avoid carte blanche problems .
Mr . DuMont stated that the Board has the variables before it and ,
therefore , all the owners need to ask for is rezoning because the
Town knows -the other variables , for example , if it were a high
building the only variance would be for building height over 30
feet .
Mr . Fabbroni stated that the Board has more control if the
owner or developer says - - 48 units - - and that is what he wants ,
then , the Board can deal with the areas of concern such as
buffer , heicfht , improvement to neighborhood .
Planning Board 9 November 15 , 1983
Mr . Mazza cited Section 46 ( Article IX ) of the Ordinance
which sets forth the procedures to be followed by an ' applicant
who is requesting that a Multiple Residence District be
established .
Mr . Fabbroni noted that the burden falls to the applicant ,
in this case , Mr . DuMont , to present some tangible approach to
development of this land . Mr . Fabbroni outlined several
suggestions as to how this could be accomplished , perhaps through
discussions with , say , three prospective buyers .
Mr . DuMont stated that he consulted with the Town Planner ;
he took the Town Planner to the site ; they discussed many of the
things that Mr . Fabbroni brings up , and , with . the exception of
the possible height variance , he really saw no further issue that
might come up . Mr . Fabbroni described further possible
approaches to establishing some sort of drawing , such as when one
works with this triangular site and puts in side yard , front
yard , buffer , etc . - - one has a little triangle . Mr . DuMont
stated that what he has been trying to say is that they did just
that .
Chairman May asked if there were anyone present who wished
to speak for or against this matter .
Mr . Raymond V . Hemming spoke from the floor and stated that
he has lived in his home at 807 Mitchell Street , which is
opposite this place , since 1948 , adding that he is a member of
the Bryant Park Civic Association , Mr . Hemming stated that he
has led many fights over these years to keep this neighborhood
residential in character . Mr . Hemming asked what kind of
" Pandora ' s Box " would be opened were this. land rezoned to
multiple . Mr . Hemming stated that he has photographs from 1951
that show tar and other crud flowing down Mitchell Street ; he
recalled a petition that went to the Town of Ithaca demanding
that it be stopped . Mr . Hemming stated that there is all kinds
of that stuff on that site although the trees have grown up and
do help to hide it . Mr . Hemming stated that Vine Street is not a
" street " - - it is owned by Norbert Schickel . Mr . Hemming stated
that he did not know about access off Mitchell Street and how
that would work , however , there is a lot of traffic on Mitchell
Street . Mr . Hemming commented that the school crossing guard is
present tonight and will tell the Board about the children
crossing that street . Mr . Hemming expressed his fear of an
accident occurring involving the children crossing .
Mr . Hemming stated that their main concern is not to stop
someone from doing something , however , they have fought for
appropriate residential and will continue to do so . Mr . DuMont
asked Mr . Hemming if he were for or against this proposal . Mr .
Hemming replied that he was against opening up the zoning and a
whole lot of students coming in there .
Planning Board 10 November 15 , 1983
Mrs . Sara Jane Hymes , 120 Vine Street , spoke from the floor
and stated that she agreed , adding that she is concerned with
congestion which has got to stop somewhere . Mrs . Hymes stated
that they have multiple housing there now with Cornell Quarters .
Mrs . Hymes stated that she was also concerned with ,traffic
patterns .
Mr . Jay Guyer , spoke from the floor and stated that he lives
next door to Mr . Hemming , at 805 Mitchell Street and he ( Guyer )
is also President of the Bryant Park Civic Association . Mr .
Guyer pointed out that the Bryant Park Civic Association is in
the City of Ithaca , not in the Town , however , the City / Town line
is Vine Street , Mr . Guyer stated that at meetings of the BPCA
concern has been expressed with regard to encroachment . Mr .
Guyer stated. that he felt that the townhouse concept might be
above student capabilities . Mr . Guyer stated that he would like
to place before the Board three concerns : ( 1 ) Mitchell Street
has become such a thoroughfare . Mr . Fabbroni asked if he might
be permitted to note here that Mitchell Street is a County
Highway , not a Town of Ithaca road . Mr . Guyer continued : ( 2 )
Belle Sherman School has been " rezoned " as to student population
and is bulging at the seams , so any residential zoning or
rezoning must be carefully considered ; ( 3 ) Bryant Park Civic
Association and the residents of the area have tried to keep the
Belle Sherman area a pleasant place in which to live allowing
students in as much as possible , however , the Board should
realize that a University of that size and importance , Cornell
University , :maintains less than 30 % of its students . Mr . Guyer
stated that Cornell is asking us - - you and me - - to maintain
their students .
Mr . DuMont stated that he has talked to a number of
developers , potential buyers . Mr . DuMont stated that he ,
himself , lives in the area and he agrees with a lot of the things
Mr . Hemming says . Mr . DuMont stated that Belle Sherman is an
excellent district , commenting that his own house is R- 1 which is
a City of Ithaca Zoning Designation , and adding that there are
City people trying to sell their houses which are rented by
students . M. r . DuMont stated that he is subjected to similar
things in violation of the City Housing Code , Mr . DuMont stated
that his feeling about the potential for this particular property
being student housing is less of a liklihood than it being
faculty , staff , simply because of the development costs and
because of what the people he has talked to have visualized . Mr .
DuMont commented that , as with anything else , there are no
guarantees .
Mr . Hemming stated that he was concerned with a " carte
blanche " multiple designation .
Chairman May asked if there were anyone else who wished to
• speak . No one spoke . Chairman May closed the Public Hearing at
8 : 45 p . m . and asked for Board discussion . There was none .
Planning Board 11 November 15 , 1983
Chairman May asked that the Board turn its attention to the
Environmental Assessment Form ( Short Form ) as signed and
submitted by Peter DuMont , Agent for Suit -Kote Corp . , under date
of November 3 , 1983 , on which all questions had been answered
" NO " and which had been reviewed by the Town Planner , Mr . Lovi ,
on November 7 , 1983 . Mr . Lovi ' s attached comments read : " There
are no unusual landforms or existing bodies of water on the site ,
which is at present completely blacktopped . Several underground
and aboveground storage tanks , formerly used for the storage of
petroleum products , are still on the site . The site slopes
gently to the west , removal of the blacktop and the
re - establishment of natural ground cover in this area would
reduce runoff to adjacent properties in the City . From an
environmental point of view , there are no significant impacts
expected from a rezoning itself . 9[As there is no development
plan presented with this rezoning proposal , it is difficult to
fairly evaluate the prospective traffic , noise , air quality , and
visual impact which rezoning would have on this site . Given the '
triangular site , it would be awkward to subdivide the land into
permitted 9 , 000 square foot lots . However , a clustered
arrangement of one or more structures could be attractively
designed . However , traffic circulation and overall impact of any
project on the community can only be determined on the basis of a
site plan . '[ The issue before the Planning Board is whether it is
appropriate for a rezoning to be recommended in the absence of a
• site plan for the property . There is no question that the market
value of this property would be enhanced considerably by this
rezoning . The site would be appropriate for multiple family or
cluster development land use , given its proximity to Cornell .
However , the Planning Board would be foregoing some of its
leverage to influence the eventual development of the site if the
rezoning were granted at this time . Given the costs of site
preparation which a developer would incur ( removal of blacktop ,
buildings , storage tanks , and chain link fencing ) the premium of
a multiple family zoning added to the purchase price would likely
be recouped by a developer ' s request to increase the development
density through " hardship " variances and exceptions . 91I
recommend a negative declaration of environmental significance
for the concept of a rezoning to multiple family but would
caution against proceeding with the rezoning at this time . It
might be appropriate for the Board to indicate the type of
developments it would consider appropriate in the future .
However , any positive action on a rezoning should be based upon a
specific site plan and use proposal . "
Chairman May stated that he took issue with all the answers
to the questions being " NO " . Chairman May stated that this land
has been a petroleum storage area , in effect , a chemical storage
area . Chairman May stated that , at the least , a Long Form
Environmental Assessment Form must be completed and , possibly ,
more than that .
Mr . Lovi stated that he had not taken issue with the
rezoning per se , however , he was concerned about the lack of site
Planning Board 12 November 15 , 1983
plan . Mr . LOVi stated that he did visit the site with Mr . DuMont
and walked -the land and he agreed with much of Mr . DuMont ' s
analysis such as high fixed cost in preparing it and that the
existing zoning may push the price of whatever kind of housing
could be built there up into a range that is not attractive for a
developer to build . Mr . Lovi stated that , on the other hand , the
latter matter is something that could be asked of that person
offering the land to take into account . Mr . Klein noted that
there are utilities serving the parcel .
Mr . Mazza stated that he agreed with Mr . May on the
inadequacy of the EAF . Chairman May stated that , as he sees it ,
this is a chemical storage area . Mr . Lovi stated that he did not
disagree . Chairman May stated that that issue has to be
addressed . Mr . DuMont stated that he has no objection to
preparing a Long Form . Mr . Mazza stated that it is important to
any position he might take and he would like to have the proposed
plans for this site to review before he would want to make a
recommendation for a rezoning . Mr . Mazza cited Section 78 of the
Ordinance which sets forth the three things the Planning Board
must find . They are :" ( 1 ) There is a need for the proposed use
in the proposed location ; ( 2 ) The existing and probable future
character of the neighborhood in which the use is to be located
will not be adversely affected ; ( 3 ) The proposed change is in
accordance with a comprehensive plan of development of the Town . "
• Mr . Mazza stated that he knew none of these things . Mr . DuMont
stated that he would submit that the three variables fall within
that requirement . Mr . Mazza stated that he would tell Mr . DuMont
now that they do not . Mr . Fabbroni stated that the applicant is
asking for the burden to fall on the Planning Board when it
should be on the applicant . Mr . Mazza stated that the Zoning
Ordinance does not permit that . Mr . Klein commented that
certainly during his time on the Board and he thought for some
time before that even , no rezonings had occurred without a
proposal . Mr . Fabbroni recalled many years ago when lands in the
area of King and Danby Roads and lands near the old airport site
were simply rezoned . Mr . Fabbroni went on to talk about other
areas in the Town which " might " not require " site plan "
specificity - - such as the area by Game Farm Road , as an example .
MOTION by Mr . Montgomery May , seconded by Mr . Edward Mazza :
RESOLVED , that the Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca
determine and. hereby does determine that the Short Environmental
Assessment Form as presented by Mr . DuMont with respect to lands
of Suit -Kote Corp . , Town of Ithaca Tax Parcels No . 6 - 59 - 1 - 1 ,
59 - 1 - 3 , and 63 - 2 - 10 . 3 , is unsatisfactory due to the potential of
chemicals or other items on the site which , at this point , are
unknown , and
FURTHER RESOLVED , that a Long Environmental Assessment Form
® must be presented prior to there being further consideration of
the applicant ' s request for rezoning of said land .
Planning Board 13 November 15 , 1983
• There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a
vote .
Aye - May , Schultz , Baker , Klein , Mazza , Grigorov .
Nay - None .
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously .
ADJOURNED PUBLIC HEARING IN THE MATTER OF SITE PLAN APPROVAL FOR
PROPOSED STORAGE BUILDING - - THERM , INC .
At 9 : 00 p . m . , Chairman May declared the previously adjourned
public hearing in the matter of site plan approval with respect
to Therm , Inc . duly re - opened for further consideration of the
proposed garage and warehouse extension .
The Board turned to the Short Environmental Assessment Form
as signed and submitted by Arnold J . Albrecht under date of
November 15 , 1983 , all questions thereon having been answered
" no " . Chairman May noted that the EAF ( Short Form ) had been
reviewed by Mr . Lovi with a recommendation for a negative
declaration .
MOTION by Mr . Edward Mazza , seconded by Mr . James Baker :
RESOLVED , that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board , acting as
lead agency .in the review of Therm , Inc . proposal for extension
of existing warehouse and garage addition to existing carpenter
shop as shown on plan entitled " Therm Plot Plan " dated September
16 , 1983 , revised November 4 , 1983 , approve and hereby does
approve the Environmental Assessment Form ( Short Form ) as
completed , and
FURTHER RESOLVED , that pursuant to the State Environmental
Quality Review Act , Part 617 , this action is classified as
Unlisted , and.
FURTHER RESOLVED , that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board has
determined from the Environmental Assessment Form and all
pertinent information that the above -mentioned action will not
significantly impact the environment and , therefore , will not
require further environmental review .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a
vote .
Aye - May , Schultz , Baker , Klein , Mazza , Grigorov .
Nay - None .
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously .
• MOTION :by Mr . Edward Mazza , seconded by Mrs . Carolyn
Grigorov0
Planning Board 14 November 15 , 1983
• RESOLVED , that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board grant and
hereby does grant site plan approval for proposed additions of
approximately 5 , 000 square feet to existing buildings , more
specifically , extension of existing warehouse and garage addition
to existing carpenter shop , at Therm , Inc . , 703 Hudson Street
Extension , Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No . 6 - 54 - 2 - 1 , 22 . 8 acres , as
shown on plan entitled " Therm Plot Plan " dated September 16 ,
1983 , revised November 4 , 1983 .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a
vote .
Aye - May , Schultz , Baker , Klein , Mazza , Grigorov .
Nay - None .
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously .
Chairman May declared the Adjourned Public Hearing in the
matter of the Therm proposal duly closed at 9 : 10 p . m .
CONTINUED INFORMAL DISCUSSION WITH WALTER J . WIGGINS , ESQ . IN RE
PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT OF WIGGINS ' PROPERTY ON DANBY ROAD ( ROUTE
96B ) IN THE VICINITY OF L ' AUBERGE DU COCHON ROUGE AND THE BARN
APARTMENTS .
• Mr . Wiggins appeared before the Board and presented a new
drawing of the site , as prepared by William Downing Associates ,
Architects , entitled " Site Plan - - The Chateau " and dated
11 - 15 - 83 , drawn by K . D . G . , Project Number 83 - 568 , Mr . Wiggins
recalled for the members his concept of this proposal as a " Bed
and Breakfast " complex in the manner of a French chateau - = thus ,
the name " The Chateau " . Mr . Wiggins noted that when complete the
proposal will contain 80 units , adding that it will be done in
stages , however . Utilizing the drawing appended to the bulletin
board , Mr . Wiggins indicated that parking is shown for the whole
concept and is such that it will avoid impacting of the view .
Mr . Wiggins recalled that the Board had asked about the rest of
the land involved in this large parcel and stated that he did not
have definitive thinking on this yet , however , because of the
Board ' s request , he had asked the Architect for a depiction of a
possible layout . Mr . Wiggins described this projection as
multiple residence units that are more " countrified " than those
the Board may be used to , adding that they would be similar to
those on his Comfort Road property . Mr . Wiggins indicated that
access is shown off Danby Road , Mr . Wiggins indicated on the
drawing an extension to L ' Auberge , which would be needed because
of the bed and breakfast plan , with an outdoor patio area also .
Mr . Wiggins stated to the members of the Board that he was open
to suggestions .
Chairman May noted that Mr . Wiggins had previously suggested
• that all of these possible future units which he is proposing
would be rental units . Mr . Wiggins stated that that was correct
and , as he sees it now , he can see the point of rental units .
Planning Board 15 November 15 , 1983
Mr . Wiggins stated that he did not think the site is conducive to
ownership homes down in that area . Mr . Wiggins noted that the
open space is left open because it is very pretty and added that
there are no trees there , the trees are in the gorge area . Again
utilizing the drawing on the board , Mr . Wiggins indicated an
existing right of way and commented that that may be saved for a
bridle path . Mr . Wiggins also indicated and described wooded
land between a certain lot and Sesame Street , Mr . Wiggins
commented that the builder has talked to the neighbors and they
seem to be in favor of his ideas . Mr . Wiggins pointed out that
the proposed building would be located some 600 ' or 800 ' back
from the road ( Danby Road ) and he would maintain that as green
area . Chairman May commented that it looks very nice .
Mr . Lovi stated that the first question he has , presuming
the cost of money does come down and Mr . Wiggins can complete the
poject as he has tentatively mapped out , with all traffic via a
single driveway passing L ' Auberge which is the centerpiece of
this entire proposed development , is - - is this desirable from a
traffic point of view or business point of view for L ' Auberge ?
Mr . Wiggins stated that he could not address that now . Mr .
Wiggins talked about a road that serves his daughter ' s cabin , he
spoke of a certain existing residence that a different road would
be an imposition to and possibly to others in the future . Mr .
Wiggins described topographical problems also . Utilizing the
drawing , Mr . Wiggins showed the only way in to one place
describing it: as a very wet area and noting , also , a very deep
gorge which goes some 50 ' or 60 ' down . Mr . Wiggins stated that
he did not know any better way to do it , commenting that a road
could come around the other side but there are lovely trees
there . Mr . Wiggins commented that a driveway could also come in
the center but he did want to keep the green area .
Chairman May asked Mr . Wiggins what the relative percentage
is between the bed and breakfast versus L ' Auberge when it is to
capacity . Mr . Wiggins stated that there are 60 to 65 seats in
L ' Auberge and his guess is that maybe half of the people that
would stay here would consider dining at L ' Auberge among other
nice eating places in the area . Mr . Wiggins surmised maybe 80
potential people and turning a table , say , two and a half times ,
with service from 6 : 00 to 11 : 00 p . m . Mr . Wiggins thought that
L ' Auberge would have to expand some as this concept expands ,
however , the kitchen at L ' Auberge needs expansion now , actually
it has to be expanded because it cannot do the job the restaurant
quality really needs . Mr . Wiggins thought that around 250 people
would be served . Mr . Wiggins commented that he would probably
have to have a variance to expand this kitchen unless it were
approved as part of that concept .
Mr . Lovi asked Mr . Wiggins how he would prefer to move from
the zoning point of view , adding if he were asking for a rezoning
• or variance . Mr . Wiggins responded that he would ask the
Planning Department how they see the best interests of the Town
served . Mr . Lovi stated that certainly discussions have been
f
Planning Board 16 November 15 , 1983
• about " bed and breakfast " and he had envisioned something like a
farmhouse on the road but , as Mr . Wiggins plans this , the overall
concept is less bed and breakfast and more something else - - not
a motel , not a hotel , but some of both . Mr . Lovi stated that , in
his opinion , we should be looking at this as some sort of PUD
( Planned Unit Development ) and working through that .
Mr . Fabbroni stated that , unfortunately , some years ago we
recommended the PUD concept as part of the proposed zoning
ordinance which has not been followed through , so , all we really
have to work with is almost " contract zoning " in a way , since the
existing zoning ordinance only allows us to piecemeal , thus , we
tend to have to approach such concepts in fits and. starts . Mr .
Fabbroni conjectured a scenario such as multiple rezoning ,
variance for bed and breakfast , and , long - term situation of
phasing . Mr . Fabbroni suggested , insofar as the restaurant part
goes , maybe the only way to handle it with the existing zoning is
for the Planning Board to recommend an expansion to the Zoning
Board of Appeals . In a manner of thinking out loud , Mr . Wiggins
supposed that if he were to call this a " Country Inn " , commenting
that people are fed up with " motels " and " bed and breakfast " is a
hot item right now which he thought will fizzle out , what he
thought of this concept is something providing an alternative to
a " Holiday I :nn " in the country such that one can have breakfast
but still have the efficiency that , unfortunately , only numbers
• can permit .
Chairman May wondered if Mr . Wiggins knew just when some of
this might occur . Mr . Wiggins stated that he would like to break
ground in the spring for about one - quarter of the building
proposed . Mr . Fabbroni outlined for Mr . Wiggins that he has in
place a variance for the restaurant and cluster approval
including the pond and grassed area in front of the barn which
tied up about: 5 acres as a cluster unit . Mr . Fabbroni expressed
his opinion that Mr . Wiggins should stand on his variance for the
restaurant , and added that , then , the next question he would pose
is - - how does Mr . Wiggins feel about dealing with the front ,
say , 25 acre; ? Mr . Wiggins stated that that would be fine . Mr .
Fabbroni staged , in that case , he would suggest a proposal for a
rezoning of the front 25 acres; approximately , to multiple
such area to include the 80 units , plus four in the barn and the
restaurant and continue the variance on the restaurant , treating
the expansion. as if it needs a variance . Mr . Fabbroni suggested
that the restaurant matter could go to the Zoning Board of
Appeals after the Town Board has acted on the whole site . Mr .
Fabbroni commented that if the concept falls on its face , what is
left to deal. with is 20 apartments , and , at such time , Mr .
Wiggins could work into approvals that he would have and re - look
at his concept . Mr . Fabbroni noted that density is controlled by
dedication of the whole 25 or so acres .
• Mr . Mazza wondered , if it were to " fall on its face " , how
Mr . Wiggins might divide up the 20 units . Mr . Wiggins stated
Planning Board 17 November 15 , 1983
• that each unit is designed so that there is a bath and a
potential kitchenette - - therefore , 20 studio apartments .
Mr . Fabbroni stated that , on a site plan that Mr . Wiggins
may next present , he would want the sewer line located and a
showing of how connection would be made to the water line , and ,
landscaping with thoughts of breaking up the breadth of the
facade a little bit . Chairman May stated that proposed lighting
and trash handling should be indicated also , adding that a Long
Environmental Assessment Form should be submitted as well .
Mr . Wiggins thanked the Board for their help and stated that
he hoped to be appearing again at their December 6th meeting .
APPROVAL OF MINUTES - OCTOBER 18 , 1983
MOTION by Mr . James Baker , seconded by Mrs . Carolyn
Grigorov :
RESOLVED , that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board approve and
hereby does approve the Minutes of the meeting of said Planning
Board of October 18 , 1983 , as written .
There being no further discussion , the Chair - called for a
vote .
• Aye - May , Schultz , Baker , Mazza , Grigorov .
Nay - None .
Abstain - Klein .
The MOTION was declared to be carried .
REPORT OF TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD REPRESENTATIVE TO THE
COUNTY PLANNING BOARD - CAROLYN GRIGOROV .
Noting that the Secretary , Mrs . Fuller , had mailed to each
member a copy of the Minutes of the October 12 , 1983 meeting of
the County Planning Board , Mrs . Grigorov stated that she would
report on the November 9th meeting of the County Planning Board .
Mrs . Grigorov stated that the Town of Lansing representative
had reported that they are about to adopt a zoning ordinance , so
it will no longer be the only town in the state without one , and
added that Dryden Village reported that it is changing its zoning
to increase commercial area .
With respect to the Hospital , Mrs . Grigorov reported that
six proposals were submitted and three or four are good
possibilities , adding that the best arrangement , not necessrily
the highest bid , is the most important factor , it being that the
interests of the present hospital must be preserved .
With respect to the Jail Site , Mrs . Grigorov reported that
there are three sites left - - ( 1 ) NYSEG property between
Planning Board 18 November 15 , 1983
• Cascadilla and Third Streets ; ( 2 ) U - FAIR , Clinton Street West ;
( 3 ) AIRPORT . Mrs . Grigorov reported that it was discussed that
all sites would work well . She noted that sites 1 and 2 involve
acquisition costs and removal of property from tax rolls and
utility connection is close on site 3 . Mrs . Grigorov also noted
that site 2 would cost about $ 100 , 000 . and could involve
foundation problems that could add another $ 100 , 000 , plus it is
farther to water and sewer lines , however , annualized over 20
years , it would cost $ 45 , 000 . more than site 3 . She stated that
site 1 would cost about $ 200 , 000 . , development about $ 100 , 000 ,
however , including lost taxes , this one would annualize at
$ 45 , 000 . per year more than the airport site ( 3 ) . Mrs . Grigorov
noted that -the time saved in transporting prisoners would be
about four minutes a trip between Lansing and the City sites .
Mrs . Grigorov reported that the County Planning Department staff
has been unable to determine any economic advantage to the City
in keeping the jail .
With respect to Route 13 , Mrs . Grigorov reported that the
CPB had discussed that after 14 years of study , two possibilities
are left - - B - 1 north of Freeville and A- 1 near Dryden . She
reported that B - 1 is opposed by affected farmers and Cornell may
worry about interference with drainage toward wetlands . Mrs .
Grigorov reported that A - 1 is opposed by Dryden , which does not
want the highway between the Village and the High School . Mrs .
Grigorov noted that A - 1 would not intercept Route 38 so it will
not get the Freeville traffic , and it does not change the hill by
TC3 . Mrs . Grigorov reported that there is a possible A - 2 north
of A - 1 but there would be an unacceptably steep grade involved .
Mrs . Grigorov reported that Mr . Liguori , County Commissioner of
Planning , sees no use of further study locally and will recommend
to the Country Board of Representatives that they submit both
routes to the State and let them decide . She stated that it
appeared to be Mr . Liguorl ' s feeling that there is strong local
opposition to all routes , so the DOT ( Department of
Transportation ) should decide . Mrs . Grigorov noted that the
prime objective is safety , not convenience . She also noted that
Cortland will. cooperate with improvements to Router 281 and 13 ,
but would veto the northern route preferred by Dryden . Mrs .
Grigorov reported the following , quoting Mr . Liguori - - " We have
the lousiest road system in central New York State , and a lot of
it is our own fault because we can ' t get a consensus . " Mrs .
Grigorov stated that the advisory board will discuss this
further , after members meet with the groups they represent , and
if they do not agree with Mr . Liguori they can send a different
recommendation to the County Board along with his .
Chairman May thanked Mrs . Grigorov for her report .
ADJOURNMENT
. Upon Motion , Chairman May declared the November 15 , 1983
meeting of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board duly adjourned at
10 : 00 P . M .
Planning Board 19 November 15 , 1983
Respectfully submitted ,
Nancy M . Fuller , Secretary ,
Town of Ithaca Planning Board .