HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB Minutes 1983-10-04 TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD
OCTOBER 4 , 1983
The Town of Ithaca Planning Board met in regular session on
Tuesday , October 4 , 1983 , in Town Hall , 126 East Seneca Street ,
Ithaca , N . Y . ,, at 7 : 30 p . m .
PRESENT : Chairman Montgomery May , Carolyn Grigorov , Barbara
Schultz , James Baker , Edward Mazza , Bernard Stanton ,
Lawrence P . Fabbroni ( Town Engineer ) , Peter M . Lovi
( Town Planner ) , Nancy M . Fuller ( Secretary ) .
ALSO PRESENT : Walter J . Wiggins , Esq .
Chairman May declared the meeting duly opened at 7 : 36 p . m .
APPROVAL OF MINUTES - SEPTEMBER 6 , 1983
MOTION by Mr . Bernard Stanton , seconded by Mrs . Carolyn
Grigorov :
RESOLVED , that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board approve and
hereby does approve the Minutes of the September 6 , 1983 meeting
• of said Planning Board as written .
. There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a
vote .
Aye - May , Grigorov , Schultz , Baker , Stanton .
Nay - None .
Abstain - Mazza .
The MOTION was declared to be carried .
REPORT OF THE TOWN ENGINEER , LAWRENCE P . FABBRONI
Mr . Fabbroni began his report by referencing the following
letter directed to the Town of Ithaca Planning Board , dated
September 28th , 1983 , and signed by Peter Costanza , Attorney .
" Re : Cascioli cluster development proposal .
Dear Sirs :
Please be advised that Mrs . Cascioli hereby withdraws her
application for a cluster housing development on Ridgecrest Road .
She wishes to indicate for the record that the sole reason
for the making of that application was the strong recommendation
. that she make such application by Mr . Fabroni ( sic . ] .
Planning Board 2 October 4 , 1983
r
I would like to indicate that staff direction to make
applications that have no realistic chance of approval does not
serve the public interest , wastes staff time , the time of the
Planning Board , and time and money of the applicant . "
Mr . Fabbroni stated that he would be happy to accept the
blame placed on his shoulders by the attorney for Grace Cascioli ,
however , the Board should know that much of his warning on
preparation :for questions on access and landscaping was largely
ignored by Mr . Franciamone , agent for Grace Cascioli and ,
furthermore , if the best the applicant can do is make the kind of
lackluster presentation made by Mr . Costanza , devoid of
specifics , there is little the staff can do to help - - our role
is not to prepare and present the proposal , that is the
applicant ' s burden .
Mr . Fabbroni reported that we have been working with DEC to
try to get our permit to remove gravel out of Fall Creek in the
area of Forest Home .
Mr . Fabbroni reported that the Stone Quarry Road
improvements are largely completed and spoke briefly about the
accident that. occurred there .
Mr . Fabbroni reported that the oil and stoning program is
completed . He stated that we have also run around Town and done
spot patching where roads have been developing cracks and oiled
those cracks and put stone on top of them . Mr . Fabbroni
mentioned Forest Home Drive and roads in the Eastern Heights area
as examples of this work .
Mr . Fabbroni reported that the matter of the joint
City / Towns sewer plant is requiring a lot of effort .
Mr . Fabbroni described and discussed with the Board the Six
Mile Creek Study Committee meeting yesterday ( October 3rd ) , with
members of the City Board of Public Works present , having to do
with the Burns Road relocation project and what , in his opinion ,
could result therefrom . He commented that the affirmative vote
taken at that meeting will help in the furtherance of the
project .
Mr . Fabbroni reported on the various parks projects and
commended Susan Beeners for her fine work , adding that she
deserves a lot of credit . He stated that the SBA Grant work is
completed with several parks and tank sites landscaped . He noted
that the deadline was September 30th which was met .
Mr . Fabbroni reported that Michael Ocello is proceeding with
a package of surveys and design drawings for water mains around
the Town involving parts of West Hill , South Hill , and East Hill .
Planning Board 3 October 4 , 1983
c
Mr . Fabbroni finished his report by stating that he has been
working on the Sewer Ordinance with the City refining our Sewer
Use Ordinance .
Chairman May thanked Mr . Fabbroni for his report .
REPORT OF THE TOWN PLANNER , PETER M . LOVI
Mr . Lov + referred also to the Six Mile Creek Study Committee
meeting and noted , in addition to the Burns Road project , what
the Committee has been looking at , mentioning , among other
things , a sub - committee which -is considering the merits of a CEA
( Critical Environmental Area ) designation for the watershed .
Chairman May thanked Mr . Lovi for his report .
UPDATE - PROPOSED SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS
Mr . Lovi stated that he has been reviewing the proposed
subdivision regulations with Mr . Buyoucos . He recalled for the
Board members . that the proposed subdivision regulations have gone
through the Codes and Ordinances Committee , adding that it is
still the same document , essentially , that the Planning Board
passed on .
• DISCUSSION OF REZONING POLICY AND THE COMPREHENSIVE PLANNING
PROCESS .
Mr . Lovi posed the following question : How do we , when
there are specific areas in the Town with legal non - conforming
uses , and someone has a proposal , move in a direction which would
be better for the Town , but which requires variances or rezoning .
Mr . Lovi commented that sometimes it may be better to recommend
that there be a rezoning or a variance , if there can be enough
conditions , where the developer is moving in a direction which is
better for the Town in a comprehensive sense .
The Board indicated its interest in Mr . Lovi ' s question .
MEMBER CONCERN WITH STATUS OF PROPOSED ZONING ORDINANCE
Mr . Stanton raised the matter of the status of the proposed
zoning ordinance and expressed his deep concern about its passage
seeming to have been bogged down somewhere .
NON -AGENDA ITEM - - COURTESY DISCUSSION WITH WALTER J . WIGGINS ,
ESQ . , IN RE PROPOSAL WITH RESPECT TO WIGGINSPROPERTY ON DANBY
ROAD ( ROUTE 96B ) IN THE VICINITY OF L ' AUBERGE DU COCHON ROUGE AND
THE BARN APARTMENTS .
Mr . Wiggins thanked the members of the Board for allowing
• him to speak to them and discuss his ideas for future development
of his property on Danby Road . Mr . Wiggins stated that he and
his wife own a 60 - acre tract of land out where L ' Auberge is and
Planning Board 4 October 4 , 1983
they have thought over the years how they can and could develop
it in a way productive to the Town and good for the land . He
described some of the things which have been done over some
twenty years , such as the refurbishing of the farmhouse into the
L ' Auberge du Cochon Rouge Restaurant and the conversion of the
barn into four apartment units .
Utilizing the aerial photo of that area of South Hill , Mr .
Wiggins showed the original parcel owned by him and his wife . He
recalled that their first thought was a housing development and
so they built one house ( indicating on the photo ) . Mr . Wiggins
commented that he lost his shirt on that idea and , thus , the land
has been that way for about twenty years with the exception of
the restaurant and barn .
Mr . Wiggins stated that their idea at this time is somewhat
akin to the popular concept these days of " bed - and -breakfast " to
go with the restaurant , and also the thought of a vacation
village . Mr .. Wiggins recalled that at one time this area had
been proposed by the Town to be rezoned from R - 30 to a mobile
home district which he and his neighbors had opposed . Mr .
Wiggins stated that the area is still zoned R - 30 , however , water
and sewer are both there .
Mr . Wiggins described his thoughts about creating 80
• bed - and - breakfast units with an interior court yard in a series
of buildings to look , in effect , perhaps , like a Tudor mansion .
Mr . Wiggins displayed a " sketch plan " and an elevation plan in
order to give the Board an idea of what he might have in mind .
Mr . Wiggins spoke of the proposal as being phased such that it
might be produced in four segments - - one segment of 20 rooms .
Mr . Wiggins stated that the project may be realized through
a rezoning or through a mechanism known as " contract zoning "
which , he wondered , if the Board members were familiar with . The
Board indicated that they had not dealt with " contract zoning " .
Mr . Wiggins described such an approach , noting that that is the
process . he utilized with respect to the Ramada Inn development .
He described the upholding of such a mechanism by the Court of
Appeals and promised , after being so requested , to forward a copy
of the decision to Mr . Mazza , Mr . Wiggins stated that through
" contract zoning " a municipality can actually contract with a
developer and say - - " we will rezone this area on the following
conditions " , or , " we like this idea but only under these
conditions " . Mr . Wiggins suggested that were such to be the case
here , the Board could limit the use of this land to that
particular use .
Mr . Wiggins statedthat they have surveyed the neighbors to
solicit their support . He stated that they did go to see all the
neighbors and they did seem to be in support .
•
Planning Board 5 October 4 , 1983
Mr . Wiggins described the drop in elevation to the west . He
noted that the land all around them is all park land , therefore ,
the project would border on Buttermilk Falls Park .
At this juncture , Mr . Wiggins asked the Board if they liked
it ; do they want to amend it ; do they want to modify it - - or , if
not , they will abandon it .
Mr . Wiggins went on to describe some distant future units
down near the Park which may be modelled after a " Topsider "
vacation home . He indicated on the plan where they would be down
in the lower area . He thought that maybe there could be eight or
so and could be rented during the school year and be vacation
homes for people in the summer .
Chairman May asked what the total number of units might be ,
to which Mr . Wiggins responded - - 80 units , maybe 100 maximum .
Mr . Wiggins commented that the last part is a long , long , way off
because there is not that kind of need . Mr . Wiggins stated that
the units he envisions are large and he would call it , perhaps ,
an executive lodge . Mr . Wiggins stated that he did not envision
a motel as one thinks of it . Mr . Wiggins described a living
room , lounge , fireplace , dining area , kitchen where breakfast is
served with dinner , he hoped , at L ' Auberge while people are
visiting the Finger Lakes . Mr . Wiggins thought it might be
. similar to Mr . Schickel ' s development in Geneva - on - the -Lake ,
which he described as quite beautiful . Mr . Wiggins commented
that L ' Auberge ' s reputation for quality has been established , it
seems , over the past 15 years .
Mrs . Grigorov asked if there were water and sewer available ,
to which Mr . Wiggins responded , that L ' Auberge and the Barn are
the last places served by water and sewer . He stated that water
is by the road and sewer is on a line between the barn and the
restaurant .
Mr . Lovi wondered how large the vacation homes might be , to
which Mr . Wiggins replied , 24 feet in diameter . Mr . Wiggins
noted that he has built this concept out on Comfort Road in the
Town of Danby . Mr . Mazza wondered how many of these there might
be . Mr . Wiggins stated that he really did not know but there is
probably a limit on cluster , adding that the piece they are
talking about is about 20 acres .
Chairman May asked Mr . Wiggins what he thought about the
rest of his land . Mr . Wiggins stated , again , that he really did
not know , adding , maybe a vacation village if this works but he
has not really thought about that .
Mr . Mazza wondered if there were any restrictions on the
restaurant . Mr . Fabbroni said that he did not think so , but he
• would have to do some research in connection with the barn
although he recalled the approval for the barn called for five
acres to be tied up with that .
Planning Board 6 October 4 , 1983
Mr . Lovi indicated that he had a question with regard to the
Tudor facade juxtaposed with the farmhouse . Mr . Wiggins
commented that that facade was for a different place and a
different time and agreed with Mr . Lovi that it should look like
L ' Auberge and the Barn . Mr . Lovi stated that he would also like
to hear more about the breakfast part . Mr . Wiggins answered that
it would be only breakfast and described a dining room and a
little kitchen and pointed out that they are designed such that
if this does not work , they are large enough to be studio
apartments .
Mr . Stanton wondered about the R - 30 zoning designation and
raised the question of precedent for every R - 30 zone such that
there might be the change to a quasi - commercial use . Mr . Mazza
cited Section 78 of the ordinance with respect to its
relationship to a rezoning recommendation .
Mr . Wiggins pointed out that there are no transient units
between Ithaca and Owego and commented that he thought there was
a need for this kind of executive lodge and is an appropriate use
for this area . Mr . Wiggins also noted that there has existed in
this very area commercially zoned property and a large commercial
area which has never been developed . Mr . Wiggins recalled that
he sat on this Board and was a participant in the writing of the
ordinance in 1954 when portions of South Hill were envisioned as
• commercial areas . He stated that where one thought through all
these years would be commercial turns out not to be the case .
Mr . Wiggins said that he felt the most important thing a planner
can do is set the tone .
Chairman May stated that he thought it looked like a very
nice idea , although he had some concerns , but over all it is a
nice spot - a beautiful piece of property - and an interesting
mixture with the restaurant and the barn . Mr . Mazza stated that
he agreed and added that it is also near business zones and
probably future development would not be adversely affected .
Chairman May stated that it was hard for him to see , at this
point , how people would be harmed . Mr . Wiggins commented that
the concept is flexible enough to go into multiple residence and
encompass that . Mr . Mazza stated that if they did not work , he
would want to see some pattern to rental units rather than
transient units . Mr . Fabbroni wondered if Mr . Wiggins would not
know that pretty much with the operation of the first phase . Mr .
Wiggins stated that that would be the case , adding that after
building the first phase and then operating for a year or two ,
they would know if it would work . Mr . Wiggins pondered the
question of converting to multiple and abandoning further density
and stated that that was just not known . Mr . Fabbroni wondered
why , if rezoning to multiple were being considered , rezone it to
multiple . Chairman May offered that variances could be sought
for the bed and breakfast . Mr . Wiggins said that that made sense
• to him . Mr . Fabbroni stated that it would simplify the whole
thing if he were considering vacation homes at the same time .
Mr . Fabbroni noted that Mr . Wiggins was speaking in terms of
Planning Board 7 October 4 , 1983
' roughly 100 units on 20 acres and stated that , density - wise , that
is on the low edge of the spectrum .
Chairman May sought a consensus from the Board members as to
their thoughts at this point in the consideration of Mr . Wiggins '
proposal . Chairman May asked if there were anyone who feels that
there are any problems they wish to express . Mrs . Schultz and
Mr . Baker indicated that they had no problems at this point with
what had been proposed . Mr . Mazza stated that he would like to
think about it a little . Mr . Wiggins stated that there was no
hurry . Mr . Mazza reminded Mr . Wiggins to get a copy to the
Secretary of the Court of Appeals decision which he had
mentioned .
Mr . Wiggins thanked the Board for their time and
consideration .
REPORT OF THE PLANNING BOARD REPRESENTATIVE TO THE COUNTY
PLANNING BOARD , CAROLYN GRIGOROV .
Mrs . Grigorov reported briefly on the September 14 , 1983
meeting of the County Planning Board . She stated that it had
been reported that the Six Mile Creek Study Committee was
continuing its work and that a final report was due January 1st
which would be followed by a public hearing . Mrs . Grigorov
• stated that it was reported that three zones have been
established in the watershed , i . e . , from VanNatta ' s Dam to the
30 - foot dam , from the 30 - foot dam to the 60 - foot dam , and from
the 60 - foot dam ( the reservoir ) all the way to the watershed
boundary . Mrs . Grigorov commented that swimming appears to be
the biggest issue .
Mrs . Grigorov reported that the Board heard a report on
TOMTRAN , stating briefly that there are now buses to Groton as
well as Dryden - Freeville , with service to Newfield and
Trumansburg being contemplated and , perhaps , eventually service
to Mecklenburg and Ithaca via Enfield . Mrs . Grigorov noted that
the Appalachian Regional Commission ( ARC ) grant was an important
factor .
Mrs . Grigorov reported on a presentation by Gary Evans with
respect to solar access , noting the law which became effective on
January 1 , 1981 that required local zoning . laws to deal with the
question of solar access and also the machinery involved in its
implementation . Mrs . Grigorov noted that planning for solar
access in subdivisions and protecting access from buildings and
trees on other lots are two separate aspects to be dealt with .
Mrs . Grigorov reported that the rest of the meeting dealt
with the Jail and possible locations therefor . She outlined the
nine sites discussed and their status - -
1 . UFAIR - viable .
2 . Markles Flats - out .
3 . Tin Can - out .
Planning Board 8 October 4 , 1983
4 . Biggs Complex - the old Heating Plant site - potential .
5 . Biggs Center - rear of new Hospital - out .
6 . Commercial Avenue - possible .
7 . City property - north of NYSDOT - out .
8 . NYSEG site ( south of Grossman ' s , west side Rte . 13 ) -
potential .
9 . Air Park Site - potential .
Chairman May thanked Mrs . Grigorov for her report .
REVIEW OF REPORT OF THE TOWN BUILDING INSPECTOR , LEWIS D . CARTEE
The Board noted that the Building Inspector ' s Report of
Building Permits Issued showed that , for the month of October
1983 , 12 permits were issued for $ 1 , 043 , 272 . 31 in improvements ,
as compared to October 1982 where 8 permits were issued for
$ 256 , 418 . 00 in improvements .
ADJOURNMENT
Upon Motion , Chairman May declared the October 4 , 1983
meeting of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board duly adjourned at
9 : 20 p . m .
• Respectfully submitted ,
Nancy M . Fuller , Secretary ,
Town of Ithaca Planning Board .
•