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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB Minutes 1983-10-04 TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD OCTOBER 4 , 1983 The Town of Ithaca Planning Board met in regular session on Tuesday , October 4 , 1983 , in Town Hall , 126 East Seneca Street , Ithaca , N . Y . ,, at 7 : 30 p . m . PRESENT : Chairman Montgomery May , Carolyn Grigorov , Barbara Schultz , James Baker , Edward Mazza , Bernard Stanton , Lawrence P . Fabbroni ( Town Engineer ) , Peter M . Lovi ( Town Planner ) , Nancy M . Fuller ( Secretary ) . ALSO PRESENT : Walter J . Wiggins , Esq . Chairman May declared the meeting duly opened at 7 : 36 p . m . APPROVAL OF MINUTES - SEPTEMBER 6 , 1983 MOTION by Mr . Bernard Stanton , seconded by Mrs . Carolyn Grigorov : RESOLVED , that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board approve and hereby does approve the Minutes of the September 6 , 1983 meeting • of said Planning Board as written . . There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote . Aye - May , Grigorov , Schultz , Baker , Stanton . Nay - None . Abstain - Mazza . The MOTION was declared to be carried . REPORT OF THE TOWN ENGINEER , LAWRENCE P . FABBRONI Mr . Fabbroni began his report by referencing the following letter directed to the Town of Ithaca Planning Board , dated September 28th , 1983 , and signed by Peter Costanza , Attorney . " Re : Cascioli cluster development proposal . Dear Sirs : Please be advised that Mrs . Cascioli hereby withdraws her application for a cluster housing development on Ridgecrest Road . She wishes to indicate for the record that the sole reason for the making of that application was the strong recommendation . that she make such application by Mr . Fabroni ( sic . ] . Planning Board 2 October 4 , 1983 r I would like to indicate that staff direction to make applications that have no realistic chance of approval does not serve the public interest , wastes staff time , the time of the Planning Board , and time and money of the applicant . " Mr . Fabbroni stated that he would be happy to accept the blame placed on his shoulders by the attorney for Grace Cascioli , however , the Board should know that much of his warning on preparation :for questions on access and landscaping was largely ignored by Mr . Franciamone , agent for Grace Cascioli and , furthermore , if the best the applicant can do is make the kind of lackluster presentation made by Mr . Costanza , devoid of specifics , there is little the staff can do to help - - our role is not to prepare and present the proposal , that is the applicant ' s burden . Mr . Fabbroni reported that we have been working with DEC to try to get our permit to remove gravel out of Fall Creek in the area of Forest Home . Mr . Fabbroni reported that the Stone Quarry Road improvements are largely completed and spoke briefly about the accident that. occurred there . Mr . Fabbroni reported that the oil and stoning program is completed . He stated that we have also run around Town and done spot patching where roads have been developing cracks and oiled those cracks and put stone on top of them . Mr . Fabbroni mentioned Forest Home Drive and roads in the Eastern Heights area as examples of this work . Mr . Fabbroni reported that the matter of the joint City / Towns sewer plant is requiring a lot of effort . Mr . Fabbroni described and discussed with the Board the Six Mile Creek Study Committee meeting yesterday ( October 3rd ) , with members of the City Board of Public Works present , having to do with the Burns Road relocation project and what , in his opinion , could result therefrom . He commented that the affirmative vote taken at that meeting will help in the furtherance of the project . Mr . Fabbroni reported on the various parks projects and commended Susan Beeners for her fine work , adding that she deserves a lot of credit . He stated that the SBA Grant work is completed with several parks and tank sites landscaped . He noted that the deadline was September 30th which was met . Mr . Fabbroni reported that Michael Ocello is proceeding with a package of surveys and design drawings for water mains around the Town involving parts of West Hill , South Hill , and East Hill . Planning Board 3 October 4 , 1983 c Mr . Fabbroni finished his report by stating that he has been working on the Sewer Ordinance with the City refining our Sewer Use Ordinance . Chairman May thanked Mr . Fabbroni for his report . REPORT OF THE TOWN PLANNER , PETER M . LOVI Mr . Lov + referred also to the Six Mile Creek Study Committee meeting and noted , in addition to the Burns Road project , what the Committee has been looking at , mentioning , among other things , a sub - committee which -is considering the merits of a CEA ( Critical Environmental Area ) designation for the watershed . Chairman May thanked Mr . Lovi for his report . UPDATE - PROPOSED SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS Mr . Lovi stated that he has been reviewing the proposed subdivision regulations with Mr . Buyoucos . He recalled for the Board members . that the proposed subdivision regulations have gone through the Codes and Ordinances Committee , adding that it is still the same document , essentially , that the Planning Board passed on . • DISCUSSION OF REZONING POLICY AND THE COMPREHENSIVE PLANNING PROCESS . Mr . Lovi posed the following question : How do we , when there are specific areas in the Town with legal non - conforming uses , and someone has a proposal , move in a direction which would be better for the Town , but which requires variances or rezoning . Mr . Lovi commented that sometimes it may be better to recommend that there be a rezoning or a variance , if there can be enough conditions , where the developer is moving in a direction which is better for the Town in a comprehensive sense . The Board indicated its interest in Mr . Lovi ' s question . MEMBER CONCERN WITH STATUS OF PROPOSED ZONING ORDINANCE Mr . Stanton raised the matter of the status of the proposed zoning ordinance and expressed his deep concern about its passage seeming to have been bogged down somewhere . NON -AGENDA ITEM - - COURTESY DISCUSSION WITH WALTER J . WIGGINS , ESQ . , IN RE PROPOSAL WITH RESPECT TO WIGGINSPROPERTY ON DANBY ROAD ( ROUTE 96B ) IN THE VICINITY OF L ' AUBERGE DU COCHON ROUGE AND THE BARN APARTMENTS . Mr . Wiggins thanked the members of the Board for allowing • him to speak to them and discuss his ideas for future development of his property on Danby Road . Mr . Wiggins stated that he and his wife own a 60 - acre tract of land out where L ' Auberge is and Planning Board 4 October 4 , 1983 they have thought over the years how they can and could develop it in a way productive to the Town and good for the land . He described some of the things which have been done over some twenty years , such as the refurbishing of the farmhouse into the L ' Auberge du Cochon Rouge Restaurant and the conversion of the barn into four apartment units . Utilizing the aerial photo of that area of South Hill , Mr . Wiggins showed the original parcel owned by him and his wife . He recalled that their first thought was a housing development and so they built one house ( indicating on the photo ) . Mr . Wiggins commented that he lost his shirt on that idea and , thus , the land has been that way for about twenty years with the exception of the restaurant and barn . Mr . Wiggins stated that their idea at this time is somewhat akin to the popular concept these days of " bed - and -breakfast " to go with the restaurant , and also the thought of a vacation village . Mr .. Wiggins recalled that at one time this area had been proposed by the Town to be rezoned from R - 30 to a mobile home district which he and his neighbors had opposed . Mr . Wiggins stated that the area is still zoned R - 30 , however , water and sewer are both there . Mr . Wiggins described his thoughts about creating 80 • bed - and - breakfast units with an interior court yard in a series of buildings to look , in effect , perhaps , like a Tudor mansion . Mr . Wiggins displayed a " sketch plan " and an elevation plan in order to give the Board an idea of what he might have in mind . Mr . Wiggins spoke of the proposal as being phased such that it might be produced in four segments - - one segment of 20 rooms . Mr . Wiggins stated that the project may be realized through a rezoning or through a mechanism known as " contract zoning " which , he wondered , if the Board members were familiar with . The Board indicated that they had not dealt with " contract zoning " . Mr . Wiggins described such an approach , noting that that is the process . he utilized with respect to the Ramada Inn development . He described the upholding of such a mechanism by the Court of Appeals and promised , after being so requested , to forward a copy of the decision to Mr . Mazza , Mr . Wiggins stated that through " contract zoning " a municipality can actually contract with a developer and say - - " we will rezone this area on the following conditions " , or , " we like this idea but only under these conditions " . Mr . Wiggins suggested that were such to be the case here , the Board could limit the use of this land to that particular use . Mr . Wiggins statedthat they have surveyed the neighbors to solicit their support . He stated that they did go to see all the neighbors and they did seem to be in support . • Planning Board 5 October 4 , 1983 Mr . Wiggins described the drop in elevation to the west . He noted that the land all around them is all park land , therefore , the project would border on Buttermilk Falls Park . At this juncture , Mr . Wiggins asked the Board if they liked it ; do they want to amend it ; do they want to modify it - - or , if not , they will abandon it . Mr . Wiggins went on to describe some distant future units down near the Park which may be modelled after a " Topsider " vacation home . He indicated on the plan where they would be down in the lower area . He thought that maybe there could be eight or so and could be rented during the school year and be vacation homes for people in the summer . Chairman May asked what the total number of units might be , to which Mr . Wiggins responded - - 80 units , maybe 100 maximum . Mr . Wiggins commented that the last part is a long , long , way off because there is not that kind of need . Mr . Wiggins stated that the units he envisions are large and he would call it , perhaps , an executive lodge . Mr . Wiggins stated that he did not envision a motel as one thinks of it . Mr . Wiggins described a living room , lounge , fireplace , dining area , kitchen where breakfast is served with dinner , he hoped , at L ' Auberge while people are visiting the Finger Lakes . Mr . Wiggins thought it might be . similar to Mr . Schickel ' s development in Geneva - on - the -Lake , which he described as quite beautiful . Mr . Wiggins commented that L ' Auberge ' s reputation for quality has been established , it seems , over the past 15 years . Mrs . Grigorov asked if there were water and sewer available , to which Mr . Wiggins responded , that L ' Auberge and the Barn are the last places served by water and sewer . He stated that water is by the road and sewer is on a line between the barn and the restaurant . Mr . Lovi wondered how large the vacation homes might be , to which Mr . Wiggins replied , 24 feet in diameter . Mr . Wiggins noted that he has built this concept out on Comfort Road in the Town of Danby . Mr . Mazza wondered how many of these there might be . Mr . Wiggins stated that he really did not know but there is probably a limit on cluster , adding that the piece they are talking about is about 20 acres . Chairman May asked Mr . Wiggins what he thought about the rest of his land . Mr . Wiggins stated , again , that he really did not know , adding , maybe a vacation village if this works but he has not really thought about that . Mr . Mazza wondered if there were any restrictions on the restaurant . Mr . Fabbroni said that he did not think so , but he • would have to do some research in connection with the barn although he recalled the approval for the barn called for five acres to be tied up with that . Planning Board 6 October 4 , 1983 Mr . Lovi indicated that he had a question with regard to the Tudor facade juxtaposed with the farmhouse . Mr . Wiggins commented that that facade was for a different place and a different time and agreed with Mr . Lovi that it should look like L ' Auberge and the Barn . Mr . Lovi stated that he would also like to hear more about the breakfast part . Mr . Wiggins answered that it would be only breakfast and described a dining room and a little kitchen and pointed out that they are designed such that if this does not work , they are large enough to be studio apartments . Mr . Stanton wondered about the R - 30 zoning designation and raised the question of precedent for every R - 30 zone such that there might be the change to a quasi - commercial use . Mr . Mazza cited Section 78 of the ordinance with respect to its relationship to a rezoning recommendation . Mr . Wiggins pointed out that there are no transient units between Ithaca and Owego and commented that he thought there was a need for this kind of executive lodge and is an appropriate use for this area . Mr . Wiggins also noted that there has existed in this very area commercially zoned property and a large commercial area which has never been developed . Mr . Wiggins recalled that he sat on this Board and was a participant in the writing of the ordinance in 1954 when portions of South Hill were envisioned as • commercial areas . He stated that where one thought through all these years would be commercial turns out not to be the case . Mr . Wiggins said that he felt the most important thing a planner can do is set the tone . Chairman May stated that he thought it looked like a very nice idea , although he had some concerns , but over all it is a nice spot - a beautiful piece of property - and an interesting mixture with the restaurant and the barn . Mr . Mazza stated that he agreed and added that it is also near business zones and probably future development would not be adversely affected . Chairman May stated that it was hard for him to see , at this point , how people would be harmed . Mr . Wiggins commented that the concept is flexible enough to go into multiple residence and encompass that . Mr . Mazza stated that if they did not work , he would want to see some pattern to rental units rather than transient units . Mr . Fabbroni wondered if Mr . Wiggins would not know that pretty much with the operation of the first phase . Mr . Wiggins stated that that would be the case , adding that after building the first phase and then operating for a year or two , they would know if it would work . Mr . Wiggins pondered the question of converting to multiple and abandoning further density and stated that that was just not known . Mr . Fabbroni wondered why , if rezoning to multiple were being considered , rezone it to multiple . Chairman May offered that variances could be sought for the bed and breakfast . Mr . Wiggins said that that made sense • to him . Mr . Fabbroni stated that it would simplify the whole thing if he were considering vacation homes at the same time . Mr . Fabbroni noted that Mr . Wiggins was speaking in terms of Planning Board 7 October 4 , 1983 ' roughly 100 units on 20 acres and stated that , density - wise , that is on the low edge of the spectrum . Chairman May sought a consensus from the Board members as to their thoughts at this point in the consideration of Mr . Wiggins ' proposal . Chairman May asked if there were anyone who feels that there are any problems they wish to express . Mrs . Schultz and Mr . Baker indicated that they had no problems at this point with what had been proposed . Mr . Mazza stated that he would like to think about it a little . Mr . Wiggins stated that there was no hurry . Mr . Mazza reminded Mr . Wiggins to get a copy to the Secretary of the Court of Appeals decision which he had mentioned . Mr . Wiggins thanked the Board for their time and consideration . REPORT OF THE PLANNING BOARD REPRESENTATIVE TO THE COUNTY PLANNING BOARD , CAROLYN GRIGOROV . Mrs . Grigorov reported briefly on the September 14 , 1983 meeting of the County Planning Board . She stated that it had been reported that the Six Mile Creek Study Committee was continuing its work and that a final report was due January 1st which would be followed by a public hearing . Mrs . Grigorov • stated that it was reported that three zones have been established in the watershed , i . e . , from VanNatta ' s Dam to the 30 - foot dam , from the 30 - foot dam to the 60 - foot dam , and from the 60 - foot dam ( the reservoir ) all the way to the watershed boundary . Mrs . Grigorov commented that swimming appears to be the biggest issue . Mrs . Grigorov reported that the Board heard a report on TOMTRAN , stating briefly that there are now buses to Groton as well as Dryden - Freeville , with service to Newfield and Trumansburg being contemplated and , perhaps , eventually service to Mecklenburg and Ithaca via Enfield . Mrs . Grigorov noted that the Appalachian Regional Commission ( ARC ) grant was an important factor . Mrs . Grigorov reported on a presentation by Gary Evans with respect to solar access , noting the law which became effective on January 1 , 1981 that required local zoning . laws to deal with the question of solar access and also the machinery involved in its implementation . Mrs . Grigorov noted that planning for solar access in subdivisions and protecting access from buildings and trees on other lots are two separate aspects to be dealt with . Mrs . Grigorov reported that the rest of the meeting dealt with the Jail and possible locations therefor . She outlined the nine sites discussed and their status - - 1 . UFAIR - viable . 2 . Markles Flats - out . 3 . Tin Can - out . Planning Board 8 October 4 , 1983 4 . Biggs Complex - the old Heating Plant site - potential . 5 . Biggs Center - rear of new Hospital - out . 6 . Commercial Avenue - possible . 7 . City property - north of NYSDOT - out . 8 . NYSEG site ( south of Grossman ' s , west side Rte . 13 ) - potential . 9 . Air Park Site - potential . Chairman May thanked Mrs . Grigorov for her report . REVIEW OF REPORT OF THE TOWN BUILDING INSPECTOR , LEWIS D . CARTEE The Board noted that the Building Inspector ' s Report of Building Permits Issued showed that , for the month of October 1983 , 12 permits were issued for $ 1 , 043 , 272 . 31 in improvements , as compared to October 1982 where 8 permits were issued for $ 256 , 418 . 00 in improvements . ADJOURNMENT Upon Motion , Chairman May declared the October 4 , 1983 meeting of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board duly adjourned at 9 : 20 p . m . • Respectfully submitted , Nancy M . Fuller , Secretary , Town of Ithaca Planning Board . •