HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB Minutes 1982-12-21 i
TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD
DECEMBER 21 , 1982
The Town of Ithaca Planning Board met in regular session on
Tuesday , December 21 , 1982 , in Town Hall , 126 East Seneca Street ,
Ithaca , New York , at 7 : 30 p . m .
PRESENT : Chairman Montgomery May , Barbara Schultz , Virginia
Langhans , James Baker , Carolyn Grigorov , Peter M . Lovi
( Town Planner ) , Lawrence P . Fabbroni ( Town Engineer ) ,
Nancy M . Fuller ( Secretary ) .
ALSO PRESENT : Dan Peterson , Bob Anderson , Maria Niederhofer , Jim
Niederhofer , Neal A . Howard , Marty Newhart , Leslie
Dotson , John A . Bentkowski , Chuck Crisell , Dan
Street , Howard R . Schlieder , Marvin J . Adleman , F .
Robert Wesley , Nancy L . Ostman , Peter G . Nickles ,
John Majeroni , Sam Bonanni , M . J . Monkemeyer , Evan
N . Monkemeyer , Roger J . Smith , Bruce Ryan ( WHCU
News ) ,
Chairman May declared the meeting duly opened at 7 : 38 p . m .
PUBLIC HEARING : CONSIDERATION OF REZONING PROPOSAL , FROM
t RESIDENTIAL - 15 TO MULTIPLE FAMILY AND FOR SITE PLAN APPROVAL ,
TOGETHER WITH ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT , OF 121 UNITS ON 30 ACRES ,
EAST KING ROAD , TOWN OF ITHACA TAX PARCEL NO . 6 - 44 - 1 - 4 . 31 . BILL
J . MANOS .
Chairman May declared the Public Hearing in the above - noted
matter duly opened at 7 : 40 p . m . and accepted for the Record the
Clerk ' s Affidavit of Posting and Publication of the Notice of
Public Hearing in Town Hall and the Ithaca Journal on December
13 , 1982 and December 16 , 1982 , respectively . Chairman May read
aloud the Notice of Public Hearing as published and as noted
above .
Richard B . Thaler , Esq . , of Thaler & Thaler , 309 North Tioga
Street , attorney for Mr . Manos , stated that the developer is
requesting a. rezoning of this 30 - acre parcel from R- 15 to
multiple - family and what is contemplated overall is the
development of 119 multi - family units , one permanent residence
for the owner , Mr . Manos , and one support building for the
purpose of the storage of equipment to take care of the
maintenance of the premises and also as a storage facility for
the resident; of the development where they could have a cubicle
to keep baggage , winter clothes , or whatever else they wished to
store . Mr . Thaler noted that this development is already
serviced by municipal water and sewer , and by underground
electrical facilities . He stated that the buildings will have
�\ electric heat , would be energy efficient as much as man can do at
this time . Mr . Thaler stated that Mr . Howard R . Schlieder , P . E . ,
land surveyor and engineer , was present to describe the plans and
Planning Board 2 December 21 , 1982
usage , adding that Mr . Schlieder is a local resident who has been
I in the community for many years and is fully familiar with the
community and its needs .
Utilizing drawings affixed to the bulletin board , Mr .
Schlieder described the first phase of the project as being four
" clusters " - - seven apartments in four structures - - and stated
that upon completion the entire development will be comprised of
68 one -bedroom apartments and 51 two - bedroom apartments . He
stated that the sewer has been built and water is there . Mr .
Schlieder dE! scribed the proposed parking based on 1 . 3 spaces per
unit as required by the zoning ordinance . Mr . Schlieder stated
that most of the landscaping will be done with natural
landscaping , however , there will be some decorative landscaping
which will be similar to the area but not native to the area .
Mr . Thaler pointed out that there will be a total of 17
buildings , Each with seven apartments - - four of which will be
one - bedroom apartments and three of which will be two -bedroom
apartments . Mr . Thaler stated that the area to the northwest and
to the west. would remain as a vacant , buffer area ; the area
between the service road and King Road East would not be
buffered . Drainage was discussed by both Mr . Thaler and Mr .
Schlieder ; a. swale indicated ; an increase of runoff discussed ,
but not in terms of the swale , with Mr . Thaler noting that the
property itself has been skinned for about eight years . Mr .
Schlieder , :referring to the possible runoff that had been
indicated , stated that there will be an increase of runoff but
that it will not affect neighbors ' properties because of the
swale and , further , because this is a slow -moving creek . Mr .
Schlieder stated that he did not anticipate any problems - - there
will be an increase , but it will be a minimal increase . Mr .
Thaler asked if there were any questions , pointing out that the
utility , or support , building was proposed to be located to the
west end of the site to the west of a drainage swale .
[ For the record , the drawings referenced were received at
the Planning Department Office on December 17 , 1982 and were
delivered to the Planning Board members on the same date . Said
drawings includes
1 . Sheet 1 - The Wm . Manos Housing Complex , King Road E . ,
Ithaca , NY - - Cover Sheet .
2 . Sheet 1P, - Site and Landscape Plan .
3 . Sheet 1B - First Floor Plan , Typical Longitudinal Section ,
Typical Rear Elevation , Typical End Elevation .
4 . Sheet 1C - Second Floor Plan Typical All Units , Entry
Elevation .
5 . Sheet 2 - Grading Plan .
6 . Sheet 3 - Grading Plan , page 2 .
7 . Sheet 4 - Utility Plan with Profile .
^' 8 . Sheet 5 - Utility Plan , page 2 .
Planning Board 3 December 21 , 1982
In addition , the Board members each received , along with the
above - referenced drawings , Sheets 1 through 11 of the Beacon
Hills Village , Phase I . Stage I . which had been approved by the
Planning Board , by signature of Chairwoman Barbara P . Holcomb on
June 7 , 197110
In addition , the Board members were each given , at this
meeting ( December 21 , 1982 ) , an Addendum Drawing , dated December
20 , 1982 , received December 21 , 1982 , showing the " future
maintenance / storage / laundry service building " and a drawing
entitled " Exterior Lighting Plan " , received December 20 , 1982 . 1
Mr . Thaler introduced Mr . Chuck Crisell as the builder of
this proposed development and stated that he would explain more
of the specifics of construction . Mr . Crisell stated that the
construction would meet all Codes and added that , rather than
typical construction , there will be some random layouts ,
commenting that Mr . Manos will not have anything to do with what
looks like a barracks situation or a regimented complex appearing
like a dormitory , so it will be constructed in as attractive a
way as possible . He stated that insofar as choice of materials
goes , it will utilize shake shingle type and also there would be
some stuccoing . He stated that there will be sliding glass doors
which makes a nice difference in window treatment . He stated
that more than the required amount parking was provided . Mr .
Crisell described the roof pitches as 2 - 12 and 5 - 12 , noting that
that gives a different concept in roof line . He noted that the
construction will be energy efficient - - no chimneys or
wood - burning stoves - - and mentioned 235 lb . shingles . Mr .
Crisell described that each building will have the one - bedroom
apartments at the ends of the building , with one apartment up and
one apartment down . The two - bedroom apartments will be located
in between the one -bedroom apartments .
Mr . Thaler stated that Mr . Manos is asking the Board to give
him the rezoning recommendation along with site plan approval and
asking the Board to find that there is no necessity for an
environmental impact study on this project , . it being rather pro
forma in that it is their contention that this project will not
significantly impact the environment , nor will there be any
violation of the building code . Mr . Thaler stated that it is the
intention to develop in stages based on demand in the community
for this type of development . He stated that Mr . Manos intends
starting foul- buildings in the Spring ( 28 units ) , if permission
is given by this Board , and then depending on what the demand is ,
four more in six - eight - nine - months , and so on , keeping the
buffer zone always intact .
Chairman May asked if there were any questions or comments
from the public .
• Mr . Neal A . Howard , 309 East King Road , submitted a petition
to the Board bearing the signatures of approximately 195 South
Planning Board 4 December 21 , 1982
. Hill residents who signed the Petition between May 24 , 1982 and
June 1 , 1982' . Said Petition reads as follows :
" TO ITHACA TOWN BOARD AND
TO TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD :
We , the undersigned , are residents of the Town of Ithaca and we
wish to herein state our objection to the proposal for rezoning
the Sibley Real Estate 30 acres on East King Road from
Residential - 15 to Multiple Family , We object to such density of
population in this area . "
Mr . J (Dhn Majeroni , Real Estate Department , Cornell
University , stated that Mrs . Nancy Ostman , Natural Areas
Committee , Cornell Plantations , had a written statement from
Cornell University to present . Mrs . Ostman presented to the
Board a letter from Shirley K . Egan , Associate University
Counsel , Cornell University , dated December 21 , 1982 , and asked
that it be entered into the record . Mrs . Ostman stated that , as
has been pointed out in the past , Cornell University land is in
the vicinity of the parcel under discussion . She stated that the
South Hill Swamp is a natural area that is rare and unique and
must be protected and the University will continue to defend it
as it has in the past . Utilizing a large drawing on the bulletin
board , Mrs . Ostman pointed out the approximately 6 acre parcel
which , she stated , is considered unique and beneficial to Cornell
• University , Mrs . Ostman stated that one area of concern is the
drainage into the Swamp and noted that bedrock is very close to
the top . Mrs . Ostman stated that , rather than read the entire
letter from Ms . Egan , she would prefer to summarize the
statement . She stated that , as Cornell sees the current
proposal , it is favorable since they see good proposed drainage
flow in the :sense that the Swamp Area is protected . Referring to
the map , Mrs . Ostman stated that Cornell continues to ask that
the area adjacent to the Swamp remain open and , further , Cornell
opposes development toward the back on Ithaca College property ,
thus keeping all of the development to the east . She stated that
they applaud the effort to build in this direction and added
that , on the whole , this proposal is preferable to previous plans
for developmE> nt of the land .
For the record , Ms . Egan ' s letter is set forth below :
" Mr . MontgomE! ry May , Chairman
Planning Board
Town of Ithaca . . .
Re : Application of Bill J . Manos for Rezoning , from R - 15 to
Multiple Family , for Tax Parcel No . 6 - 44 - 1 - 4 . 31 , etc .
Scheduled for December 21 , 1982
Dear Mr . Chairman :
Planning Board 5 December 21 , 1982
• I regrE! t that the above - captioned hearing falls when I have
planned to :be out of town and that I will be unable to attend ,
However , some of the people from the Cornell Plantations who are
very knowledgeable about South Hill Swamp will be able to come .
Nonetheless , I wanted this letter to go on the record as the
position of the University .
The University believes the Board will be gratified , and not
a little relieved , to learn that several of us who have been
involved in the protection of South Hill Swamp in the past , met
with Mr . Manos last week , As a result we have reached some
understandings which , I am pleased to say , enables us not to
oppose Mr . Manos ' plans as they have been presented to us and I
think , will be presented to you tonight . Mr . Manos has been
commendable in his willingness to consult and cooperate with
Cornell and to assist us in the preservation of South Hill Swamp .
To that. end , we have been pleased to note , Mr . Manos does
not plan any development for the portion of the tract west of the
pond . As the Board will recall from last Spring ' s hearings , this
portion provides drainage into the Swamp . It is therefore
essential to the life of the Swamp that there be protection from
fast runoff due to roofs and blacktopped surfaces , herbicides and
fertilizers , and other hazards of development in this section .
In addition , Mr . Manos has agreed to establish a protective
planting at the edge of his property near the northwest end of
• the pond . This should make passage by residents of the
development into the Swamp difficult and so will go a long way
toward alleviating our fears over the increased numbers and
density associated with the requested zoning change .
The University and Mr . Manos have agreed to continue to
consult and cooperate with each other over the choice and
location of the natural materials for this protective planting
and over thin. course of construction and site work so as to
minimize any adverse effect upon the South Hill Swamp .
The University is gratified too , that Mr . Manos will be
constructing the project in phases from east to west and that he
will be locating the end of the access road no further west
( approximately ) than the western -most building . It is important
that buildings , parking and roads not be placed near the
( approximately ) six ( 6 ) western -most acres of the site . This
section should be left as natural as possible although some
moving of brush to keep it tame looking could be done with care .
We are further pleased by Mr . Manos ' statements that he
plans a well- run and well - supervised development , with his own
home next door . That no pets ( particularly cats ) , littering or
dumping or other activities by the residents which could be
detrimental to the Swamp will be permitted , is particularly
• comforting . Likewise , Mr . Manos has said that any herbicides ,
pesticides or fertilizers will be used on the balance of his
property ( i . e . the less critical eastern section ) in moderation
Planning Board 6 December 21 , 1982
• so that no excess can drift through the air or flow through the
water into -the South Hill Swamp or areas which provide drainage
to it .
In sum ,, Cornell hopes that in Mr . Manos it has found a new
neighbor who is truly appreciative and protective of South Hill
Swamp . We look forward to a mutually beneficial association with
him , the Planning Board , and the Town of Ithaca in the
preservation of this rare natural asset .
Lastly , however , the University wishes to go on record with
respect to two ( 2 ) additional points . They do not affect Mr .
Manos ' appl _+_ cation or his proposed development . However , they
are so vital to the very life of the South Hill Swamp that I
trust I can have the Board ' s ear a moment longer . The University
wants there to be a record established now as to its position and
as fair notice to owners or prospective owners of other property
in the area of South Hill Swamp .
As the Board may recall , the South Hill Swamp encompasses
approximately 50 acres , not merely the 5 which the University was
fortunate enough to gain ownership of some 20 years ago . The
area has been recognized since the 1820 ' s as a rare environment .
The entire Swamp is listed in the County ' s Unique Natural Area ' s
Inventory . Its geology , flora and fauna represent a combination
. not known in these parts since prehistoric times . The Swamp is
also very fragile . Unfortunately , it would be very easy to
damage it inadvertently , thus destroying one of the area ' s true
anomalies of nature . While some of the Cornell representatives
present at the hearing will be able to explain the unique geology
which has produced this , let me only point out that this is a
swamp on topl of a hill , not in a valley as one would normally
expect . Accordingly , what little drainage does flow into the
South Hill Swamp is exceedingly vital to it , not only in quantity
but in quality . Just as vital is the fact that the Swamp ,
through its unique basin - like configuration , is able to retain
this hilltop water allowing it to escape only very slowly .
The major source of water into the Swamp is from the
southwest , over presently undeveloped lands owned by our sister
institution , Ithaca College . As the Board can by now guess , any
interference ( which includes virtually any development ) with that
source of drainage over the greater portion of the Ithaca College
property would spell irreparable harm to , if not the ruin of the
South Hill Swamp .
Likewise , the area from which the Swamp drains itself , if
every so slourly , is located to the northeast of the 5 acre tract
the University owns . This area is part of a 140 - odd acre parcel
owned by Paul. Erdman who obtained subdivision approval from this
Board last Spring for a section to the east of this vital
• section . Any development or site work here which hastened the
drainage from the Swamp would also cause irreparable harm or even
the demise of the Swamp .
Planning Board 7 December 21 , 1982
For these reasons , I wanted to put the Board and the public
alike on notice that the University would be compelled to mount a
vigorous opposition to any development of these parcels around
the Swamp which endangers it . At the same time , I want to assure
our neighbors and the community that Cornell University and the
Natural Areas Subcommittee of the Cornell Plantations do not idly
oppose development for opposition ' s sake . Rather by our words
and deeds tonight in working with Mr . Manos , we trust we have
shown that we can and will cooperate with our neighbor ' s wherever
this is pos .; ible .
With my best wishes to you and the members of the Planning
Board for the holiday season and a good new year , I am
Very truly yours ,
( sgd . ) Shirley K . Egan
Shirley K . Egan
Associate University Counsel "
Chairman May asked if there were any further comments .
Mr . Roger J . Smith , 113 Ridgecrest Road , stated that he
would ask the developers where they perceive their markets for
. the potential renters of these apartments . Mr . Thaler responded
that the market would be directed at people who have been unable
to buy housing in the Ithaca area because of the mortgage market .
He stated that people are renting a house or apartments in town
only because there is no suitable escape from what the norm is
and this development is going to give them an alternative - - a
rustic , rural - type setting - - like a home but , an apartment . He
stated that marketing would be directed toward the middle - income -
type family , young couples at Cornell and Ithaca College , couples
starting careers , 20 - to 30 - year - old age range . Mr . Smith stated
that with 68 one - bedroom apartments and 51 two - bedroom
apartments , .it would seem to be aimed toward attracting Ithaca
College students . Mr . Thaler responded that the market was not
exclusive of college students , that was not the intent . He stated
that a one - bedroom apartment would be suitable for a young
couple . He said that it was not the intent at all for the
development to be Ithaca College students .
Mr . Smith asked , in terms of traffic control on King Road in
particular , if there were steps to be taken to deal wtih
increased traffic in this area . Mr . Schlieder stated that they
have considered this quite a bit and , using the map , pointed out
to him the two entrances onto the development road and , noting
that there will be about 120 cars involved , added that there
should be no major problem at peak hours because of the secondary
service road because there are two ways to go .
• Mr . Smith pointed out that the previous developers of this
land were a disaster , adding that they were out - of - town people .
Planning Board 8 December 21 , 1982
He asked Mr ., Crissell what his financing plans were . Mr . Thaler
explained to Mr . Smith that Mr . Manos is the developer , Mr .
Crisell is the builder and he is from out of Town . Mr . Thaler
stated that they will try to do the financing locally , adding
that they have local architects , local surveyor and engineer
all the people involved are local landowners except for the
builder . Mr . Smith asked Mr . Crisell if he had any connection
with the Sibley Corporation . Mr . Thaler responded , absolutely
not . Mr . Thaler stated that Griffley owns the land and Mr . Manos
has a contract to purchase subject to approvals from the Town of
Ithaca . He stated that Mr . Manos had not completed the financing
arrangements at this time .
Mr . John Bentkowski asked Mr . Thaler who the present owner
of record of this land is right now . Mr . Thaler described some
of the history of the ownership of this land - - Erdman , Sibley ,
Griffley and so on . Mr . Bentkowski requested that he be informed
as to who is on the record right now as owner . Mr . Thaler
responded that he had not seen the Title and did not know right
at this minute , however , Griffley Corporation has the authority
to sell this property . Chairman May stated that he did not
believe any further discussion of this to be quite relevant to
the matter before the Town of Ithaca Planning Board and suggested
to Mr . Bentkowski that he had gotten all the answer he was going
to get at this point .
Mr . Smith asked Mr . Crisell about his business reputation
and financial stability . Mr . Crisell stated that he was from
Rochester and has been in business since 1969 . He stated that he
has built from 65 to 75 houses per year up to 279 houses , adding
that he makes sure where the money is before starting to build .
He stated that he has confidence in Mr . Manos and added that the
concept in general is very solid , emphasizing the fact that Mr .
Manos wants an attractive complex , not a dormitory - type complex ,
and would be using good materials . He stated that, as far as
student housing goes , he has done 80 units on Campus in the last
18 months . He stated that he has built all over the State and
pointed out that 13 years in business and 200 houses a year
speaks for itself .
Mr . Smith stated that the area that used to be owned by the
Sibley Corporation currently is half undeveloped . He stated that
it is swampy ;; it does not drain ; there are open pits , chunks of
concrete ; it is dangerous . He asked if a development would
assume responsibility for the entire parcel of land , develop it
ecologically sound , and , does the current ownership and who has
title to it affect that responsibility ?
Mr . Thaler showed the diagram of everything that was at one
time Beacon Hills and stated that Mr . Manos has contracted to
purchase 30 acres - Phase I of the old Beacon Hills . Mr .
• Fabbroni stated that he would like to point out , for
clarification , that there is no building that was built , no pad
that was constructed , that is not on the land Mr . Manos is
Planning Board 9 December 21 , 1982
purchasing . Mr . Fabbroni stated that he wanted to clarify that
because he thought he was hearing that the old construction goes
beyond that „ Mr . Smith asked if Phase 1 will take care of the
current problems . Mr . Thaler responded that he thought so ,
adding that he understood Mr . Smith ' s concern . Mr . Thaler stated
that Mr . Manos is purchasing the whole site and , although the
construction, will be done in phases , the site work , as far as
removing eyesores , will be done at the start . Mr . Thaler pointed
out that Mr . Manos lives in Ithaca and his business is here . He
stated that no one would want to live there with these eyesores
and no one would be able to rent the apartments if the renter had
to look out his window and see an abandoned site . Mr . Thaler
pointed out that six acres of the 30 acres Mr . Manos is buying
will remain undeveloped open space .
Mr . Smith asked about replanting . Mr . Schlieder said they
will not replant the open area because they do not want any
violation of the ecology of the area west of the stream ; it will
be cleaned out of debris and will grow back itself naturally . He
stated that the entire area will be cleaned up of debris during
construction . Mr . Thaler apologized for thinking that that land
had not been touched . Mr . Smith stated that he would like an
answer to the direct question - - Is he going to clean up the
area ? Mr . Thaler responded - yes . Mr . Howard asked about
assurances of not building on , to which Mr . Thaler replied that
such would be in a deed .
Mr . Marty Newhart , 171 East King Road , commented that he
would like to submit that if Cornell is so worried about that
land , Cornell should take care of that land and put it back to
its original state .
Ms . Leslie Dotson , Tompkins County Department of Planning
liaison to the Tompkins County Environmental Management Council ,
stated that they would like to express a certain discomfort with
some of the errors and inconsistencies in the EAF in describing
the neighborhood character . Ms . Dotson stated that what she had
to say could be termed comments which may or may not be
significant but do refer to the EAF . Chairman May stated that
the Board would be reviewing the EAF later in the discussion .
Mr . Smith stated that there are currently alleged violations
of the current zoning ordinance in that neighborhood which there
has been difficulty in addressing effectively . He wondered if ,
with the concern about rezoning this particular parcel , it could
be linked to alleged violations in the neighborhood . Mr .
Fabbroni stated that he did not know what Mr . Smith meant by
linked , however , if he could surmise what premises Mr . Smith was
referring to , he would point out that the matter has gone through
the Courts twice and could go again . Mr . Fabbroni stated that
the Court had full control of the situation and could have made
the penalty harder than it was . Mr . Fabbroni stated that he did
not know what: more the Town can do . Mr . Fabbroni stated to Mr .
Smith that if: he knew of violations - - let us know . Mr . Smith
Planning Board 10 December 21 , 1982
•� . commented that it was a matter of credibility . Mr . Fabbroni
stated again that the party was taken to Court twice ; the first
time he was declared guilty , the second time he was found in
contempt of Court . Mr . Fabbroni stated that our problem , if you
consider the Planning Board and Zoning Board of Appeals staff , is
that we cannot do much more than take it to the Court . Mr .
Fabbroni commented that , when Mr . Smith speaks of credibility ,
maybe it is the credibility of the Court in this instance .
Chairman May asked if there were any further comments .
There were none . Chairman May asked for Board discussion .
Mrs . Grigorov asked if the density were too great to be
considered for cluster development . Mr . May stated that the
proposal is for 7 units in one structure which exceeds the
Cluster Regulations which require no more than six . Mrs .
Langhans wondered how Beacon Hills could have happened . Mr .
Fabbroni briefly described the Beacon Hills cluster proposal in
1972 and the rezoning from R - 30 to R - 15 . Mr . Fabbroni noted
also , in connection with Mrs . Grigorov ' s question about
clustering , that the Manos proposal exceeds the 3 . 5 units per
acre requirement of the Cluster Regulations , Mrs . Grigorov
wondered , if the parcel is rezoned , can it be held to that which
is proposed . Mr . Fabbroni pointed out that the rezoning is based
on a specific site plan .
• Mr . Fabbroni asked what the landscaping entailed and if this
were a definite planting schedule that had been presented . Mr .
Fabbroni also asked that the type of exterior lighting be
described a little more . Mr . Schleider , noting that he was
speaking for the architect , briefly described the lighting plan
presented and indicated that the lights would be 12 foot high ,
however , he did not know the type and more details would be
submitted for final approval . Referring again to the
landscaping , Mr . Fabbroni asked if the developer is committed to
the schedule presented . Mr . Schlieder stated that they may use
red maple rather than scarlet . Mr . Thaler stated that they were
committed to this schedule but they could not say positively the
exact type . Mr . Fabbroni stated that his main concern about
exterior lighting was that they be shielded .
Mrs . Grigorov asked what the energy efficient aspects of the
building are . Mr . Crisell described a " sandwich " effect in that
the two - bedroom units are located between the one -bedroom units .
He described R- 13 insulated exterior walls and R- 30 insulated
ceilings with 9 inches of insulation in the ceiling , wood frame
windows - combination storm and screen , 2 X 4 studded walls -
interior and exterior walls .
Mrs . Lan. ghans asked if there were just one entrance to the
second floor . Mr . Crisell stated that that was correct , adding
• that there will be an exterior deck with entrance onto the
one - bedroom units on the ends of the buildings ; there is no
common entrance ; one entrance and one exit for each apartment .
Planning Board 11 December 21 , 1982
C• Mr . May stated that he was concerned about there not being any
roofs over the outside stairs which he thought could be a
potential hazard . Mr . Manos stated that they would look
carefully at covering the stairways .
Mr . May asked if the sidewalks would be paved . Mr .
Schlieder Stated that they would . Mr . May asked if the
" courtyard " would be grass . It was stated that it would be .
Mrs . Grigorov inquired about the golf course idea ; Mr . Manos
stated that he is not going to touch that - - they will not be
going ahead with the golf course as suggested in the first
preliminary plans .
Mrs . Grigorov asked if the Board were going to discuss the
EAF . Mr . May stated that it would be discussed following this
discussion period . Mr . May asked if it were still in their plans
to break up all the pads and remove the concrete . Mr . Thaler
responded that that was still their intention , adding that they
will all be gone .
Mr . Fabbroni stated that the drainage plan for the old
Beacon Hills proposal which had been utilized speaks for itself ,
however , it would be nice if the buildings were taken off the
grading plan . He pointed out to the Board that they should
require that so that there is a complete set of building plans on
• file . In terms of drainage , Mr . Fabbroni commented that the pond
has been there for eight years and if he understood Cornell ' s
position without reading through the statement , they feel that if
nothing further is done , the pond works - - has been there for
some time - - and is serving a useful purpose . Mr . Fabbroni
stated that he would have to agree with Mr . Schlieder with
respect to the diversion ditch , but , the diversion ditch would
have to be well - sodded . Mr . Fabbroni suggested , if the builder
has no expertise in this area , consulting with the Soil
Conservation Service on their seeding recommendations , adding ,
really for everything - - including the developer and the
University . He noted the area west of the stream and said he
thought it could be done with fairly minimal cost . He suggested
seeds that could survive even in the soil that is left and stated
that the SCS could give them good recommendations . Mr . Fabbroni
stated that the overall drainage , other than natural drainage ,
can be concentrated so that it stays away from going directly to
the swamp . Mr . Fabbroni commented , in terms of other houses in
the area , the proposal does not heavily impact the area as far as
the view , noting that the open space is most adjacent to the
existing homes . With respect to parking , Mr . Fabbroni stated
that he would like to see more spaces because the residents are
more likely to have two cars than one . He stated that another 40
spaces tastefully located would not hurt a bit . Mr . Fabbroni
noted that the developer has supplied the minimum number
required , commenting that that minimum is sort of out of date .
• Some materials were mentioned , such as Texture I - 11 or plain old
aluminum siding , noting that with all the angles and cuts one
would not be looking at a massive structure . It was noted also
Planning Board 12 December 21 , 1982
that , by halving seven units in one structure , a lot is saved in
terms of meE! ting codes , etc . Mr . Fabbroni stated that he thought
a covered walkway on the ends of each building would be
practical , :if nothing else . Mr . Fabbroni stated that he would
like to see a little more drainage detail from the parking areas ,
commenting that he could not really tell what was being described
from what he saw on the plan . He stated that a final drainage
contour map would give the Board a little more information to
show them where the developer is going to have the storm drains ,
noting that this can control flow better than down into a sodded
ditch .
Mrs . LZ�inghans stated that she would like to ask about the
size of the service building which appears to be 125 ' x 801 . Mr .
Thaler stated that it is to be a one - story building with storage
area for all of the residents as an assigned cubicle , and
laundry . He stated that it will be constructed with the last of
the phases ELfter everything is done . Mr . Lovi noted that there
appeared to be no plans for a recreation room . Mr . Thaler
agreed , stating , absolutely not , adding that the service building
would also be used for storage of maintenance equipment .
Mr . Fabbroni asked if garbage areas had been shown . Mr .
Schlieder pointed out that there are four dumpsters on four of
the five lots - - one for each cluster .
Mr . Fabbroni stated that the Board should see more detail on
the sewer and water laterals .
Dir . Lovi stated that he agreed with Mr . Fabbroni ' s comments ,
adding that he felt if the developer continues to work with the
people at Cornell , with their interests in the Swamp , together
they can maintain the area they are concerned with . Mr . Lovi
stated that he wanted to make sure he heard what he thought he
heard about herbicides and recommended that the developer consult
with Cornell about any use of herbicides or pesticides in order
to avoid contamination of the Swamp Area ,
Chairman May then directed everyone to look at the
Environmental. Assessment Form . Mr . May stated that he felt it
would be inappropriate at this time for the Board to recommend
this plan to the Town Board with respect to the rezoning , adding
that it should be brought up to anticipated design prior to
Planning Board recommendation . Mr . May pointed out that , since
the EAF Short Form had delineated one " yes " answer , a Long Form
EAF was required . The Board began its review of the EAF Long
Form as submitted , dated December 16 , 1982 .
Chairman May asked for Ms . Dotson ' s comments . Ms . Dotson
directed the Board ' s attention to the following :
' 1 . Page 3 , question # 20 - - " Unique Natural Area " should be
checked , even though the words " Next to " are there . Mr .
Planning Board 13 December 21 , 1982
• Thaler stated that he agreed . It was decided that no check
mark need be by " Freshwater Wetland " .
2 . Page 3 , question # 21 - - Wildlife / Conservation , and , Forestry
Woodland should be checked . Ms . Dotson stated that this is
an active site for pheasant and deer .
3 . Page 4 , question # 31 - - Ms . Dotson pointed out that this is
answered " No " and stated that she was uncomfortable with
this . Mr . Thaler stated that he had answered " no " because
the information he had indicated that with the way the land
has beE: n for eight years now , the pond has taken care of
runoff and has not affected adjacent land , and , he presumed ,
will continue to take care of it . Ms . Dotson pointed out
that the land use plans indicate revegetation and possible
herbicide use . Ms . Dotson pointed out that Mr . Thaler had
said that they would be working with Cornell , and stated
that it would be helpful to put that in the written record .
Mr . Thaler stated that they will consult with Cornell
University , under question # 31 , adding that they are not
trying to modify any adjacent areas . He stated that they
will consult with Cornell as to herbicides and vegetation .
Mr . Thaler stated that the answer remains " no " with possible
expansion .
4 . Page 4 , question # 34 - - Ms . Dotson noted that all the boxes
• were checked " no " , so it would seem that there is no
vegetation there at all . Mr . Thaler stated that he agreed .
Mr . Thaler agreed that " shrubs " , and , " ferns , grasses ,
sedges , rushes " should be changed to " yes " .
Ms . Dotson stated that she had no further comments .
Mr . Thaler indicated that he would request the following
correction .
1 . Page 2 , question # 6 - - Change " THEIR " to " THERE " , and add ,
" Utility lines only . "
Mr . Lovi stated that the record should show that this
Environmental. Assessment Form is covering two actions which are
segmented but joined - - the rezoning and the development - -
therefore , question # 8 , on Page 2 , should be 30 ± acres . Mr .
Thaler agreed .
Mr . Thaler requested the following correction , in addition
to that just suggested by Mr . Lovi :
Page 2 , question # 8 - - Delete " 14 " and " PLUS , RECREATIONAL
DEVELOPMENT " , so as to read : " 30 ± ACRES . "
Mrs . Gri. gorov pointed out that there might be more parking
spaces . Mr . Fabbroni stated that he was suggesting a number more
like 200 . Mr . Thaler stated that he would have to defer to the
Planning Board 14 December 21 , 1982
planners , adding that he thought there was room . Mr . Schlieder
stated that more parking will be put in and the parking acreage
recomputed . Mr . Thaler suggested adding 25 % for now . Thus ,
Page 2 , question # 9 - - Parking acreage indicated as 1 . 075 acres
- - add " + 25011
.
Mr . Thaler requested that # 9 be changed , additionally , as
follows :
Page 2 , question # 9 - - Add " and 1 service building " after
private residence " .
Mr . Thaler requested that # 3 and # 5 on Page 1 be changed , as
follows :
Page 1 , question # 3 - - Change 120 to " 119 " and add " , 1 RESIDENCE
AND 1 SERVICE BUILDING . "
Page 1 , question # 5 - - Change construction date from MARCH 1982
" MARCH 1983 " .
Mr . Thaler requested that # 10 be changed , as follows :
Page 2 , question # 10 - - Add , in both instances where the no . of
floors is indicated as " 2 " , " except a
single story service building and single
story residence " .
and
Add , after " * + 1 PRIVATE RESIDENCE " ,
and one service building " .
Mr . Thaler requested that # 11 be changed , as follows :
Page 2 , question # 11 - - Change " 120 " to " 119 " .
Mrs . Larighans pointed out , with reference to question # 10 - -
future total sq . ft . - - that that would change . Mr . Thaler
agreed .
Mr . Smith questioned the answers to question # 51 on page 6 ,
where " medium income segment " and " students " were checked . Mr .
Thaler stated that he thought that was the focus , adding that he
thought he had to put that in since they are talking about
graduate students , married persons , etc . He wondered just how
technical he had to be .
Mr . Smith suggested at this point that there should be some
type of recreational area , playgrounds , etc . , for the residents '
children , something large enough that children would be attracted
to it . Mr . Fabbroni stated that he assumed the intent of Mr .
• Smith ' s suggestion was to have some place for residents for
recreation , such as a tot lot , in the vicinity of the building .
Mr . Smith wondered what direction the developer is being asked to
Planning Board 15 December 21 , 1982
• go to . Mr . Schlieder indicated that he had a problem with this ,
mentioning basketball . Mr . Thaler pointed out to Mr . Schlieder
that what was being asked for was somewhere an area that could be
dedicated to a recreation area , if needed , so that everything on
site has not: been used up . Mr . Fabbroni suggested an area north
of Building 3 or north of Building 10 as potential areas . Mr .
Schlieder noted that everything north of the sewer line to remain
a designated. open area . Mr . Thaler stated that he did not think
this is a problem - - what kind , depends on the tenant mix . Mr .
Thaler said they would get together with the architect and work
something out where an area can be set aside for this type of
thing .
Mr . Robert Wesley of Cornell Plantations said there were
several rare and unique plant species on the Cornell University
parcel , the Ithaca College parcel north and northwest , and in the
northwest corner of the property boundaries of this 30 - acres
parcel but within the area designated as the open area . Mr . May
noted that there is quite a buffer . Mr . Wesley stated that none
of the rare species lie in the building area , adding that the
most critical species are not on this site at all but some
unusual species are in the northwest corner . Mrl . Thaler stated
that he really did not know and would defer to the experts . The
following change was suggested and agreed to by Mr . Thaler :
Page 5 , question # 38 - - Delete " May be " and add " as well as
northwest corner of the 30 - acre parcel . "
It was agreed that question # 41 was answered properly .
Chairman May closed the public input session at 9 : 18 p . m .
and asked for Board discussion of the Environmental Assessment
Form . The following took place :
Page 1 - - No additional changes .
Page 2 - - # 12 : Proposed parking spaces should be " 200 " not
" 155 " . Traffic generated / day should be " 650 " .
- - # 13 : Delete " Pending " and add " Must comply with Town
of Ithaca Sign Law . "
- - # 14 : " footcandes " should be " footcandles " .
- - # 15 : Delete " NONE ANTICIPATED " , replace with " Some
blasting may be necessary for installation of
utility lines . "
- - Those changes previously made .
Page 3 - - # 15 : Add at top of page - - " For utility lines . "
• - - # 22 : Delete " x " by Gas .
• Planning Board 16 December 21 , 1982
Page 4 - - # 29 : Change " Tiller " to " Tuller " ; change " loudstown "
" lordstown " ; change " ovis " to " ovid " .
- - # 30 : Noting that the answer here was " minimum " , Mr .
Lovi commented that for the final presentation
the Board would expect more complete drainage
plans . Mr . Thaler responded , yes .
- - # 34 : As changed previously .
Page 5 - - # 38 : As changed previously .
- - No additional changes .
Page 6 - - # 48 : Mr . Lovi pointed out , based on the 1980 Census ,
that there are 2 . 26 persons per dwelling unit .
He suggested that 270 would be a better number .
Mr . Thaler stated that he accepted that .
Change " 170 " to " 270 " .
Page 7 - - The Board questioned " Blasting " not being checked as a
required Town permit . It was noted that the Town has
no process for issuing blasting permits . Mrs . Schultz
pointed out that a person has to be licensed to be a
blaster .
• es .Page 7 was accepted as submitted ; no chap
g P g
Chairman May stated that he believed it would be wise for
the applicant to make the changes indicated and to amplify and
redo the drawings where and if they have been suggested for
change and possibly bring back the matter to the Board at its
next meeting in January . Mr . Thaler asked when the Board next
met ; Mr . May replied , January 4 , 1983 . Mr . Thaler requested to
be placed on the agenda and stated that they would be back with
the information and drawings in order .
MOTION by Mr . Montgomery May , seconded by Mr . James Baker :
RESOLVED , that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board adjourn and
hereby does adjourn the Public Hearing in the matter of the Bill
J . Manos application for rezoning to multiple family and site
plan approval. , together with environmental assessment , 30 acres ,
119 units plus one private residence and one service building ,
East King Road , Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No . 6 - 44 - 1 - 4 . 31 , to
January 4 , 1983 , at 7 : 45 p . m .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a
vote .
Aye - Grigorov , Schultz , Langhans , May , Baker .
Nay - None .
Planning Board 17 December 21 , 1982
• The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously . Chairman
May declared the Public Hearing duly adjourned at 9 : 45 p . m . and
stated that this action constitutes Public Notice of the meeting .
APPROVAL OF MINUTES - OCTOBER 19 , 1982
MOTION by Mr . Montgomery May , seconded by Mrs . Virginia
Langhans :
RESOLVED , that the Minutes of the Town of Ithaca Planning
Board Meeting of October 19 , 1982 , be and hereby are approved as
written .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a
vote .
Aye - Grigorov , Schultz , Langhans , May , Baker .
Nay - None .
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously .
APPROVAL OF MINUTES - DECEMBER 7 , 1982
Mrs . Grigorov noted a correction needed on Page 5 , first
line , i . e . , " They are applying for a Gannett Foundation grant to
develop the proposal further . " ( Not a H . U . D . grant . )
MOTION b Mr . James Baker , seconded b Mr . Montgomery Mayo
Y Y g Y Y
RESOLVED , that the Minutes of the Town of Ithaca Planning
Board Meeting of December 7 , 1982 , be and hereby are approved as
written with the noted correction on Page 5 , line 1 , i . e . , delete
" H . U . D . " , add " Gannett Foundation " .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a
vote .
Aye - Grigorov , Schultz , Langhans , May , Baker .
Nay - None .
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously .
APPOINTMENT OF PLANNING BOARD CHAIRPERSON FOR 1983
MOTION by Firs . Barbara Schultz , seconded by Mrs . Carolyn
Grigorov :
RESOLVED , that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board recommend
and hereby does recommend to the Town Board the appointment of
Mr . Montgomery May as Planning Board Chairperson for 1983 .
• There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a
vote .
Planning Board 18 December 21 , 1982
Aye - Grigorov , Schultz , Langhans , May , Baker .
Nay - None .
The MO'T' ION was declared to be carried unanimously .
APPOINTMENT OF PLANNING BOARD VICE -CHAIRPERSON FOR 1983
MOTION by Mr . Montgomery May , seconded by Mrs . Virginia
Langhans :
RESOLVED , that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board recommend
and hereby does recommend to the Town Board the appointment of
Mrs . Carolyn Grigorov as Planning Board Vice - Chairperson for
1983 .
There Being no further discussion , the Chair called for a
vote .
Aye - Grigorov , Schultz , Langhans , May , Baker .
Nay - None .
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously .
APPOINTMENT OF TWO ( 2 ) PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS TO THE CODES AND
ORDINANCES COMMITTEE OF THE TOWN BOARD
MOTION by Mr . Montgomery May , seconded by Mrs . Barbara
Schultz .
RESOLVED , that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board recommend
and hereby does recommend to the Town Board the appointment of
Mrs . Virginia Langhans and Mr . Bernard Stanton to the Codes and
Ordinances Committee of the Town Board for 1983 .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a
vote .
Aye - Grigorov , Schultz , Langhans , May , Baker .
Nay - None .
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously .
APPOINTMENT OF ONE ( 1 ) PLANNING BOARD MEMBER TO THE PARKS AND
RECREATION PLANNING COMMITTEE OF THE TOWN BOARD
MOTION by Mr . Montgomery May , seconded by Mrs . Virginia
Langhans :
RESOLVED , that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board recommend
and hereby does recommend to the Town Board the appointment of
Mrs . Barbara Schultz to the Parks and Recreation Planning
is
Committee of the Town Board for 1983 .
Planning Board 19 December 21 , 1982
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a
vote .
Aye - Grigorov , Schultz , Langhans , May , Baker .
Nay - None .
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously .
REPORT OF THE TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD REPRESENTATIVE TO THE
COUNTY PLANNING BOARD - CAROLYN GRIGOROV .
Mrs . Grigorov reported on the County Planning Board Meeting
of December 8 , 1982 . She stated that they want more information
on the Areawide Planning Issues . The members were reluctant to
decide on five issues only and suggested that Mrs . Grigorov offer
the several issues the Board has discussed but to include
specifically the Biggs Complex , Flood Damage , Solid Waste , and
Rail Service .
Mrs . Grigorov reported that the EMC is monitoring the Hector
Land Use issue . She reported that , in addition , this year ' s
priorities for the EMC are ( 1 ) salt on roads , ( 2 ) fly ash , ( 3 )
erosion and how present land use practices contribute to
sedimentation .
With reference to local access to PASNY Power , Mrs . Grigorov
' reported , regarding redistribution of hydropower after 1985 , a
" region " cannot form an agency to distribute it , it has to be a
municipality ., She reported that County Planners think that the
County is the most appropriate level to form an agency to buy
from PASNY to sell to NYSEG , who would then distribute . Mrs .
Grigorov stated that , at the next meeting , Dan Collins of NYSEG
will make a presentation and Frank Slattery of the Town of Groton
will make the case for the consumer - owned side . Mrs . Grigorov
commented that a consulting agency called " Betel Corporation "
suggests that: municipalities could do their own distributing .
Mrs . Grigorov reported that most of the meeting was a
presentation by Social Services of the effect the move to Biggs
would have on their staff and clients . Mrs . Grigorov mentioned
some of the problems that had been pointed out with respect to
any such move , e . g . , transit and time and also communication with
other agencies located downtown . Mrs . Grigorov stated that the
Commissioner of Planning , Frank Liguori , suggested , among other
things , that half - hour bus schedule , daycare center , restaurant ,
banks , might well be part of the picture at the hospital to
support the offices .
CHRISTMAS
Mrs . Langhans gave out Christmas candy to all present at
• this meeting and stated that she had enjoyed her first year on
the Planning :Board , and the members ' company , very much .
l
,, Planning Board 20 December 21 , 1982
Chairman May wished everyone a " Very Merry Christmas and a
Very , Very Happy New Year . "
ADJOURNMENT
Upon Motion , the Chair declared the December 21 , 1982 ,
meeting of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board duly adjourned at
9 : 57 p . m .
Respectfully submitted ,
Nancy M . Fuller , Secretary ,
Town of Ithaca Planning Board .
s