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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB Minutes 1978-10-17 TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD OCTOBER 17 , 1978 The Town of Ithaca Planning Board met in work session on Tuesday , October 17 , 1978 , in Town Hall , 126 East Seneca Street ( second floor ) , Ithaca , New York , at 7 : 30 p . m . PRESENT : Chairman Liese Bronfenbrenner , Patrick Mackesey , Carolyn Grigorov , Jonathan Bradley , Robert W . Bonnell ( Assistant to the Town Engineer ) , Barbara Z . Restaino ( Planner ) , Lawrence P . Fabbroni ( Engineer ) . ALSO PRESENT : Wayne Barr , Patricia Barr , Mark Brockway , George Hovanec , George Ideman , Eva Hoffmann , Lagrand Chase , Randy Chase , Thomas G . Miller , Bruce Ryan WHCU , Andy Grossman WTKO . The Chair declared the meeting duly opened at 7 : 30 p . m . , noting that a quorum was not present . Mrs . Bronfenbrenner stated that certain items on the Agenda will be considered . APPLICATIONS FOR SIGN PERMIT 1 . ' Ide ' s Roller Skating Rink , Chairman Bronfenbrenner stated that the sign proposed for Ide ' s Roller Skating Rink was approved by the Town Board last evening , October 16 , 1978 ) with the contingency that the Planning Board would approve it . Mrs . Bronfenbrenner stated that all of the Planning Board members were called and there is 100 % approval by all members of the Planning Board . Mrs . Bron - fenbrenner commented that Mr . Aron did express concern about lights shining in the eyes of the traffic going by , but did give his approval . Mr . George Ideman described for those Board members present the ligh - ting set up . He stated that the lighting is shaded and pointed out that there is also a Town light on the intersection . Chairman Bronfenbrenner stated that the Planning Board members unanimously recommend to the Town Board approval of this sign and all concur with . the . Town Board ' s approval . Those members present agreed with this statement . 2 . Sibley Corporation ( Beacon Hills ) . Mr . Bonnell presented the application for Sign Permit prepared by George Hovanec , Hovanec Displays , Ithaca , NY . , on behalf of the Sibley Corporation , 2 State Street , Rochester , NY 14614 , owners of the land pre - viously known as Beacon Hills . A copy of said application is attached to the Official Minutes of this meeting . The application is dated October 4 , 1978 . Mr . Bonnell stated that the proposed sign measures 4 ' x 81 , 32 sq . ft . Mr . Hovanec stated that the sign will be placed between 15 ' and 20 ' from the right of way . He stated that the sign will be on two posts between 3 - 1 / 2 ' and 4 ' in height . Mrs . Bronfenbrenner asked in what way does this sign not comply with the requirements of the Sign Ordinance . Planning Board - 2 - October 17 , 1978 Mr . Bonnell cited Section 6 ( 1 ) ( a ) of the Sign Ordinance which reads as follows : ® " Section 6 . Permitted signs in all districts . ( 1 ) The following signs may be erected in any area of the Town of Ithaca without a permit : ( a ) Signs advertising the sale , lease or rental of the premises upon which the sign is located , which sign shall not exceed 6 square feet in area . " Mr . Bonnell stated that there was no regulation for a sign of this size denoting a property for sale . Mr . Bradley wondered if the Board should recommend a time limit on the placing of this sign . MOTION by Mrs . Liese Bronfenbrenner , seconded by Mrs . Carolyn Grigorov : RESOLVED , that the Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca recommend and hereby does recommend to the Town Board approval of the sign proposed by Sibley Corporation to be located on East King Road at least 15 ' back from the right of way , Tax Map Parcel No . 6 - 44 - 1 - 4 . 31 , for a period of one year from the date of the issuance of permit , or , completion of the sale , whichever comes first , and further RESOLVED , that the sign permit can be renewed for an additional period of one year . ® There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote . Aye - Bronfenbrenner , Mackesey , Grigorov , Bradley . Nay - None . 3 . The Depot Restaurant . Mr . Bonnell presented the application for sign permit from P . Scott Anderson and Kenneth A . Wormser , owners of the East Hill Depot Restaurant at 1876 Judd Falls Road . He stated that the request is for a 15 sq . ft . sign , ten feet high from the ground on a pole . He noted that the now proposed permanent sign is smaller than the temporary sign they have in place now which has been approved . He noted that the proposed sign is legal under the Sign Ordinance - - they could have a much larger sign . MOTION by Mr . Carolyn Grigorov , seconded by Mrs . Liese Bronfenbrenner : RESOLVED , that the Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca recommend and hereby does recommend to the Town Board approval of the 15 sq . ft . sign proposed by Messrs . Anderson and Wormser , owners of the Depot Restaurant , such sign reading " East Hill Depot , 1876 , Restaurant - Tavern " , as shown on application presented this date , October 17 , 1978 . There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote . ® Aye - Bronfenbrenner , Mackesey , Grigorov , Bradley . Nay - None . DISCUSSION OF PROPOSED SUBDIVISION ALTERNATIVES , RIDGECREST ROAD . LAGRAND E . CHASE . Mr . Chase stated that he had wished to merely discuss the proposed Planning Board - 3 - October 17 , 1978 subdivision of his land and since a full Planning Board was not present he would respectfully ask that such discussion be postponed . He added that ® they really do not have a presentation at this time ; it is very preliminary , and they would like to discuss the matter with a full Board . It was agreed that the matter would be discussed at the November 7 , 1978 , meeting of the Planning Board . DISCUSSION OF GOALS OF TOWN ZONING WITH RESPECT TO STUDENT , SINGLE , AND ELDERLY HOUSING NEEDS IN THE TOWN OF ITHACA , EVA HOFFMANN . Mrs . Eva: Hoffmann appeared before the Planning Board . She said that she was sorry that everyone was not here , but that she would like to dis - cuss her ideas and concerns with those present and that , perhaps , she could return some other time . Mrs . Hoffmann stated that she was taking part in a workshop , at Cornell University in the Planning Department which was taking a look at the stu- dent ' s place in organizations around the Town . She stated that a housing study had been suggested by Mr . Fabbroni , Mrs . Hoffmann stated that students , singles , and the elderly have similar needs and problems in housing . She pointed out that the numbers of students seem to be decreasing and the numbers of elderly seem to be increasing . Mrs . Hoffmann commented - that the Town of Ithaca has so many single and two - family houses as contrasted with big cities which have so many apartments . ® Mrs . Hoffmann suggested an approach of combining students and elderly in a large old home . Mrs . Bronfenbrenner commented that this approach would be some answer to utility costs and high taxes . Mrs . Hoffmann cited data from the Office for the Aging . She noted that even if the number of housing for the elderly were doubled , 85% would still be in private homes . Mrs . Hoffmann asked the Board members for their feelings as to possible aid to persons wishing to change their home to fit both elderly and young residents . Mrs . Bronfenbrenner felt that the presence of the owner in a home is a good deterrent to problems . Mr . Bradley felt that enforcement of any zoning regulations in such cases can be a problem . He cited particularly the problem of absentee landlords . Mrs . Hoffmann felt that conditions could be attached to any such approvals that could be enforceable . Mrs . Hoffmann asked the Board if they felt there is any need for this type of housing - - multi - family and / or two - family ? Mr . Mackesey stated that with rising utility costs , taxes , etc . , the market value of large homes is decreasing or setting some new standards . He stated that Mrs . Hoffmann ' s proposal makes it a viable alternative to keep one ' s home , but getting the neighbors to agree is where it breaks down . Mrs . Bronfenbrenner commented that there is a great fear of Planning Board - 4 - October 17 , 1978 r y " Collegetownizat ion " . Mr . Bonnell pointed out the State Building Code requirements for multi - family homes . Mrs . Hoffmann asked for a commitment . from the Board - - is it realistic and feasible ? Mrs . Bronfenbrenner stated that a few years ago she would have said - - wonderful ' - - but , now , she would find it unrealistic . Mrs . Hoffmann asked the Board what theyfelt the Town ' s responsibility was to students and the elderly ? Mrs . Bronfenbrenner stated that it is not realistic for the University to build more housing for students , but it is a real problem . Mrs . Bron - fenbrenner commented that a three - apartment home with three students generates more income than a three - bedroom home with two elderly persons . COMMENTS ON PROPOSED SITE PLAN REVIEW SECTION OF THE REVISED ZONING ORDINANCE . Mrs . Restaino led the Planning Board members through the proposed revisions to the Site Plan Review portion of the proposed zoning ordinance revision .. She noted that it clearly regulates the site plan review process as being different from a zoning change . She pointed out that '- the Planning Board will be responsible for site plan review approval only in all areas , noting that in a zoning change both Boards - - Town Board and Planning Board - - will be involved . Mrs . Restaino pointed out that landscaping must be an important item in the site plan review approval process , commenting that developers always run out of money when it comes to landscaping . Mr . Bonnell commented that an ordinance regulating trash , dumping , etc . , is presently being written for future presentation . ADJOURNMENT The Chair declared the October 17 , 1978 , meeting of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board duly adjourned at 9 : 20 p . m . Respectfully submitted , Nancy M . Fuller , Secretary . 9' TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD TUESDAY , OCTOBER 17 , 1978 WORK SESSION A G E N D A 7 : 30 P . M . Consideration of Applications for Sign Permit 1 . Ide ' s Roller Skating Rink 2 . Sibley Corporation ( Beacon Hills ) 3 . The Depot Restaurant 7 : 40 P . M . Discussion of Proposed Subdivision Alternatives , Ridgecrest Road . L . Chase . 8 : 10 P . M . Discussion of Goals of Town Zoning with respect to Student , Single , and Elderly Housing Needs in the Town of Ithaca . E . Hoffmann . 8 : 40 P . M . Comments on Proposed Site Plan Review Section of the Revised Zoning Ordinance . 9 : 10 P . M . ADJOURNMENT Nancy M . Fuller Secretary NOTE : IF ANY MEMBER OF THE PLANNING BOARD CANNOT ATTEND , PLEASE CONTACT ME IMMEDIATELY AT 273 - 1721 . Mr . May is unable to be present . SIGN APPLICATION AND PERMIT _ FEE ; $5'000 - APPLICATION PLUS $ 1 . 00 PER SQ , FT , AREA OF EACH SZGN . APPLICATION DATE : October 4 / 78 PERMIT:. DATE Z NG DISTRICT R- 15 ( Cluster ) TAX MAP PARCEL- - 6_ 44 - 1 _4 _3T - _ _ - _ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ( 272 - 8861 ) ! Sibley ' Cotporation - ( George Hovanec: - Agent ) TELFHONE ( 716 ) 232 - 1620 I PPLICANT ren i 700 -Crossroads Building , 2 State Street , Rochester , ' NY ' 14614 DDRESS ROPERTY OWNER Sibley Corporation DDRESS 700 Crossroads Building , 2 State Street , RochesterTELPHONE ew or 4 DCATION OF SIGN (S ) King Road East at least 15 feet hark from right of way ( See attached Map ) ;:ALE . DRAWING . OR _ ATTACHED - OR . BLUEPRINT . - - - - - - _ - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - _ - TERtIE,, - BR 1iFRE -PNOT �GTF-a G'GO/'S -GS�HITEF/E ' lift 71 STP -j LUMCtX • ��youf6y . . A SEC`_ :X)/SI_LAYS l A -� October 411978 SIGNATURE c � �-= zY' ` A e ►TE -- - - - - - - - - - .- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - PLANNING BD : ACTION - - - - - - 0 - - - DATE--- ) APPROVED BY ) DENIED UNDER SEC . TOWN BD , . ACTION DATE _ I 2ND , PLANNING BD , ACTION DATE D AIACTION OF APPEAL 2ND , TOWN BD , ACTION DATE^ DATE OF HEARING ? 5 . 00 DEPOSIT FOR ADVERTISEMENT ft HEARING , • • 1 d to, p' s 9JoIA41to 1 ! Vs lk..I 1 1. t ~ 1 � olk Coo too N too gAte ^ 1 nNC ld10 F.tJI i/y-..rr. 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BLUEPRINT , - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - . •L ` g� wow TE S IG NATURE ) APPROVED BY - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - PLANNING BD : - ACTION - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - • DATE - ,' ) DENIED UNDER SEC . _ TOWN BD , , ACTION DATE_ NACTION 2ND , PLANNING BD , ACTION DATE.' OF APPEAL . )ATE OF HEARING 2NDo TOWN BD , ACTION DATE t 5 . 00 DE POS IT . FOR ADVERTISEMENT ` }SARI NG , ha � cy SUMMARY OF PLANNING BOARD COMMENTS in re presently approved sections of proposed zoning ordinance . _ September 19 , 1978 . 1 , SPECIAL FLOOD HAZARD AREA Consensus : A good document . Main question was , " Who would be the arbitrator on the special provisions in Section 42 ? " Mr . Fabbroni stated that the engineer certifies that the standards have been met through his Certificate of Compliance . The Zoning Board of Appeals is the final arbitrator if there is an argument . 2 . INSTITUTIONAL USE ZONE ( P ) Consensus : A good document that is needed . Basically the Board said , " Good luck with Cornell and Ithaca College , but they will probably go along . No comments on the Article in particular . 3 . CONSERVATION AREA ® Consensus : A good document that makes sense as it is . There was some concern about the meaning of " limited " use . The concept . seems to be one of " limited " use juxtaposed with " park " . Mr . Stanton would like to see two sentences added to paragraph 3 . of Section 1 . Purpose . " The intent is to preserve these areas in a natural state . Limited use is expected by the public . " . 4 . AGRICULTURAL ZONE ( A ) Consensus : Well done , but a few questions should be looked at by the Committee . a . Section 27A . Purpose . In the last sentence , replace " conserve open space " with " maintain areas of open space " . b . Section 28 . Building and Other Structural Regulations . 1 . Minimum enclosed floor area . After . the word " area " in the text , add " for a dwelling " - - because it could apply to . a pump house or a silo or whatever . 4 . Height Requirements . Why is height of buildings controlled ? If for dwellings , it should be so stated . . ; , Summary of Planning Board Comments ( cont . ) 9 / 19 / 78 4 . Agricultural Zone ( A ) ( cont . ) ® C . Section 27D . Special Permit Requirements . 2 . It was agreed by all the Board that the pig is no more objectionable than any other of the common farm animals . This paragraph should state EITHER " all animal raising " OR " the raising of fur - bearing animals " . 5 . MOBILE HOME RESIDENCE ZONE ( R3 ) Consensus : Work needed on this Article . The comments follow : 1 . Change the Title ( for clarity to the reader ) to - - RESIDENCE ZONE 3 ( R3 ) INCLUDING MOBILE HOMES 2 . Section 13 A . Purpose . Delete the words " which , through the word , Town " , so that Purpose reads : " The general purpose of an R3 zone is to establish a zone for mobile home residen - ces . " The matter of providing for a variety of housing for all income groups in the Town should be put in the ® Total Purpose of the ordinance . 3 . Mr . Stanton had the following comments : a . " I have a problem with the R3 Zone idea . Should it not be an area which accommodates a range of different housing and the possibility somewhere within it of mobile homes on individual lots and a mobile - home park ? Thus , it should be a Residence . Zone Including Mobile Homes . Site Plan reviews should be for the parks , not for the whole zone . It seems difficult to establish now where the specific sites should be located in advance . " b . " Is this a floating zone ? It appears to be but perhaps we should have the courage to designate . " c . Purpose . " The general purpose of an R3 Zone is to establish a limited area within a residential area where the primary type of housing will be mobile homes or similar modules . " 4 . The definition for Mobile Home should be expanded or changed because there was a feeling by the Board that the legal definition of mobile home ceases once the moving gear . ( wheels , axles , hitch , etc . ) are removed , thus creating a standard dwelling . There was an opinion voiced generally by the Board that the Courts have interpreted cases this way . 5 . There were complaints about the space requirement . 5 , 000 square foot lot is not financially feasible and effectively eliminates any mobile home parks - - try 2 , 500 square feet . .' ' , .Summary of Planning Board Comments ( cont . ) 9 / 19 / 78 5 . Mobile Home Residence Zone ( R3 ) ( cont . ) ® 5 . ( cont . ) A number of Planning Board members felt that the 5 , 000 square foot requirement was excessive . 6 . The Planning Board members felt that the 25 acre requirement may be too large and unfair in the same way as item 5 , above . e . g . , a multiple residence zone under the existing zoning ordinance is one ( 1 ) acre , 7 . There was some feeling that there should be minimum " dimensions " for the zone in order to avoid a long strip , • 8 . Mr . Aron felt strongly that until the New York State Fire Safety Code for mobile homes is revised permitting any mobile home park would be dangerous . Others felt that they had not heard of a whole park going up in flames . 9 . Mr . Stanton would like toopermit mobile homes on individual lots within any of the other residential districts . 6 . ASIDE from those sections proposed and herein reviewed - - . The Planning Board felt that the Town of Ithaca Zoning Ordinance should include a section on sanitary landfill and dumping areas . Reason : The time will come when the other towns will ask the Town of Ithaca to keep its own refuse . 7 . NEED : The Planning Board felt quite handicapped by not - having - any " definitions " to look at in conjunction with their review .