HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB Minutes 1978-10-17 TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD
OCTOBER 17 , 1978
The Town of Ithaca Planning Board met in work session on Tuesday ,
October 17 , 1978 , in Town Hall , 126 East Seneca Street ( second floor ) ,
Ithaca , New York , at 7 : 30 p . m .
PRESENT : Chairman Liese Bronfenbrenner , Patrick Mackesey , Carolyn
Grigorov , Jonathan Bradley , Robert W . Bonnell ( Assistant to the Town
Engineer ) , Barbara Z . Restaino ( Planner ) , Lawrence P . Fabbroni ( Engineer ) .
ALSO PRESENT : Wayne Barr , Patricia Barr , Mark Brockway , George
Hovanec , George Ideman , Eva Hoffmann , Lagrand Chase , Randy Chase , Thomas
G . Miller , Bruce Ryan WHCU , Andy Grossman WTKO .
The Chair declared the meeting duly opened at 7 : 30 p . m . , noting
that a quorum was not present .
Mrs . Bronfenbrenner stated that certain items on the Agenda will be
considered .
APPLICATIONS FOR SIGN PERMIT
1 . ' Ide ' s Roller Skating Rink ,
Chairman Bronfenbrenner stated that the sign proposed for Ide ' s Roller
Skating Rink was approved by the Town Board last evening , October 16 , 1978 )
with the contingency that the Planning Board would approve it . Mrs .
Bronfenbrenner stated that all of the Planning Board members were called and
there is 100 % approval by all members of the Planning Board . Mrs . Bron -
fenbrenner commented that Mr . Aron did express concern about lights shining
in the eyes of the traffic going by , but did give his approval .
Mr . George Ideman described for those Board members present the ligh -
ting set up . He stated that the lighting is shaded and pointed out that
there is also a Town light on the intersection .
Chairman Bronfenbrenner stated that the Planning Board members
unanimously recommend to the Town Board approval of this sign and all
concur with . the . Town Board ' s approval . Those members present agreed with
this statement .
2 . Sibley Corporation ( Beacon Hills ) .
Mr . Bonnell presented the application for Sign Permit prepared by
George Hovanec , Hovanec Displays , Ithaca , NY . , on behalf of the Sibley
Corporation , 2 State Street , Rochester , NY 14614 , owners of the land pre -
viously known as Beacon Hills . A copy of said application is attached to
the Official Minutes of this meeting . The application is dated October 4 ,
1978 .
Mr . Bonnell stated that the proposed sign measures 4 ' x 81 , 32 sq . ft .
Mr . Hovanec stated that the sign will be placed between 15 ' and 20 '
from the right of way . He stated that the sign will be on two posts
between 3 - 1 / 2 ' and 4 ' in height .
Mrs . Bronfenbrenner asked in what way does this sign not comply with
the requirements of the Sign Ordinance .
Planning Board - 2 - October 17 , 1978
Mr . Bonnell cited Section 6 ( 1 ) ( a ) of the Sign Ordinance which reads
as follows :
® " Section 6 . Permitted signs in all districts . ( 1 ) The following
signs may be erected in any area of the Town of Ithaca without a permit :
( a ) Signs advertising the sale , lease or rental of the premises upon
which the sign is located , which sign shall not exceed 6 square feet in
area . "
Mr . Bonnell stated that there was no regulation for a sign of this
size denoting a property for sale .
Mr . Bradley wondered if the Board should recommend a time limit on
the placing of this sign .
MOTION by Mrs . Liese Bronfenbrenner , seconded by Mrs . Carolyn Grigorov :
RESOLVED , that the Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca recommend and
hereby does recommend to the Town Board approval of the sign proposed by
Sibley Corporation to be located on East King Road at least 15 ' back from
the right of way , Tax Map Parcel No . 6 - 44 - 1 - 4 . 31 , for a period of one year
from the date of the issuance of permit , or , completion of the sale ,
whichever comes first , and further
RESOLVED , that the sign permit can be renewed for an additional period
of one year .
® There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote .
Aye - Bronfenbrenner , Mackesey , Grigorov , Bradley .
Nay - None .
3 . The Depot Restaurant .
Mr . Bonnell presented the application for sign permit from P . Scott
Anderson and Kenneth A . Wormser , owners of the East Hill Depot Restaurant
at 1876 Judd Falls Road . He stated that the request is for a 15 sq . ft .
sign , ten feet high from the ground on a pole . He noted that the now
proposed permanent sign is smaller than the temporary sign they have in
place now which has been approved . He noted that the proposed sign is
legal under the Sign Ordinance - - they could have a much larger sign .
MOTION by Mr . Carolyn Grigorov , seconded by Mrs . Liese Bronfenbrenner :
RESOLVED , that the Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca recommend and
hereby does recommend to the Town Board approval of the 15 sq . ft . sign
proposed by Messrs . Anderson and Wormser , owners of the Depot Restaurant ,
such sign reading " East Hill Depot , 1876 , Restaurant - Tavern " , as shown on
application presented this date , October 17 , 1978 .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote .
® Aye - Bronfenbrenner , Mackesey , Grigorov , Bradley .
Nay - None .
DISCUSSION OF PROPOSED SUBDIVISION ALTERNATIVES , RIDGECREST ROAD . LAGRAND
E . CHASE .
Mr . Chase stated that he had wished to merely discuss the proposed
Planning Board - 3 - October 17 , 1978
subdivision of his land and since a full Planning Board was not present
he would respectfully ask that such discussion be postponed . He added that
® they really do not have a presentation at this time ; it is very preliminary ,
and they would like to discuss the matter with a full Board .
It was agreed that the matter would be discussed at the November 7 ,
1978 , meeting of the Planning Board .
DISCUSSION OF GOALS OF TOWN ZONING WITH RESPECT TO STUDENT , SINGLE , AND
ELDERLY HOUSING NEEDS IN THE TOWN OF ITHACA , EVA HOFFMANN .
Mrs . Eva: Hoffmann appeared before the Planning Board . She said that
she was sorry that everyone was not here , but that she would like to dis -
cuss her ideas and concerns with those present and that , perhaps , she
could return some other time .
Mrs . Hoffmann stated that she was taking part in a workshop , at Cornell
University in the Planning Department which was taking a look at the stu-
dent ' s place in organizations around the Town . She stated that a housing
study had been suggested by Mr . Fabbroni ,
Mrs . Hoffmann stated that students , singles , and the elderly have
similar needs and problems in housing . She pointed out that the numbers
of students seem to be decreasing and the numbers of elderly seem to be
increasing . Mrs . Hoffmann commented - that the Town of Ithaca has so many
single and two - family houses as contrasted with big cities which have so
many apartments .
® Mrs . Hoffmann suggested an approach of combining students and elderly
in a large old home .
Mrs . Bronfenbrenner commented that this approach would be some answer
to utility costs and high taxes .
Mrs . Hoffmann cited data from the Office for the Aging . She noted
that even if the number of housing for the elderly were doubled , 85% would
still be in private homes .
Mrs . Hoffmann asked the Board members for their feelings as to possible
aid to persons wishing to change their home to fit both elderly and young
residents .
Mrs . Bronfenbrenner felt that the presence of the owner in a home is
a good deterrent to problems .
Mr . Bradley felt that enforcement of any zoning regulations in such
cases can be a problem . He cited particularly the problem of absentee
landlords . Mrs . Hoffmann felt that conditions could be attached to any
such approvals that could be enforceable .
Mrs . Hoffmann asked the Board if they felt there is any need for this
type of housing - - multi - family and / or two - family ?
Mr . Mackesey stated that with rising utility costs , taxes , etc . , the
market value of large homes is decreasing or setting some new standards .
He stated that Mrs . Hoffmann ' s proposal makes it a viable alternative to
keep one ' s home , but getting the neighbors to agree is where it breaks
down .
Mrs . Bronfenbrenner commented that there is a great fear of
Planning Board - 4 - October 17 , 1978
r
y
" Collegetownizat ion " .
Mr . Bonnell pointed out the State Building Code requirements for
multi - family homes .
Mrs . Hoffmann asked for a commitment . from the Board - - is it realistic
and feasible ?
Mrs . Bronfenbrenner stated that a few years ago she would have said - -
wonderful ' - - but , now , she would find it unrealistic .
Mrs . Hoffmann asked the Board what theyfelt the Town ' s responsibility
was to students and the elderly ?
Mrs . Bronfenbrenner stated that it is not realistic for the University
to build more housing for students , but it is a real problem . Mrs . Bron -
fenbrenner commented that a three - apartment home with three students
generates more income than a three - bedroom home with two elderly persons .
COMMENTS ON PROPOSED SITE PLAN REVIEW SECTION OF THE REVISED ZONING
ORDINANCE .
Mrs . Restaino led the Planning Board members through the proposed
revisions to the Site Plan Review portion of the proposed zoning ordinance
revision .. She noted that it clearly regulates the site plan review process
as being different from a zoning change . She pointed out that '- the Planning
Board will be responsible for site plan review approval only in all areas ,
noting that in a zoning change both Boards - - Town Board and Planning
Board - - will be involved .
Mrs . Restaino pointed out that landscaping must be an important
item in the site plan review approval process , commenting that developers
always run out of money when it comes to landscaping .
Mr . Bonnell commented that an ordinance regulating trash , dumping ,
etc . , is presently being written for future presentation .
ADJOURNMENT
The Chair declared the October 17 , 1978 , meeting of the Town of Ithaca
Planning Board duly adjourned at 9 : 20 p . m .
Respectfully submitted ,
Nancy M . Fuller ,
Secretary .
9'
TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD
TUESDAY , OCTOBER 17 , 1978
WORK SESSION
A G E N D A
7 : 30 P . M . Consideration of Applications for Sign Permit
1 . Ide ' s Roller Skating Rink
2 . Sibley Corporation ( Beacon Hills )
3 . The Depot Restaurant
7 : 40 P . M . Discussion of Proposed Subdivision Alternatives ,
Ridgecrest Road . L . Chase .
8 : 10 P . M . Discussion of Goals of Town Zoning with respect
to Student , Single , and Elderly Housing Needs in
the Town of Ithaca . E . Hoffmann .
8 : 40 P . M . Comments on Proposed Site Plan Review Section of
the Revised Zoning Ordinance .
9 : 10 P . M . ADJOURNMENT
Nancy M . Fuller
Secretary
NOTE : IF ANY MEMBER OF THE PLANNING BOARD CANNOT ATTEND , PLEASE
CONTACT ME IMMEDIATELY AT 273 - 1721 .
Mr . May is unable to be present .
SIGN APPLICATION AND PERMIT _
FEE ; $5'000 - APPLICATION PLUS $ 1 . 00 PER SQ , FT , AREA OF EACH SZGN .
APPLICATION DATE : October 4 / 78 PERMIT:. DATE
Z NG DISTRICT R- 15 ( Cluster ) TAX MAP PARCEL- - 6_ 44 - 1 _4 _3T - _ _ - _ - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ( 272 - 8861 ) !
Sibley ' Cotporation - ( George Hovanec: - Agent ) TELFHONE ( 716 ) 232 - 1620 I
PPLICANT ren i
700 -Crossroads Building , 2 State Street , Rochester , ' NY ' 14614
DDRESS
ROPERTY OWNER Sibley Corporation
DDRESS 700 Crossroads Building , 2 State Street , RochesterTELPHONE
ew or 4
DCATION OF SIGN (S ) King Road East at least 15 feet hark from right of
way
( See attached Map )
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SUMMARY OF PLANNING BOARD COMMENTS in re presently approved sections
of proposed zoning ordinance .
_ September 19 , 1978 .
1 , SPECIAL FLOOD HAZARD AREA
Consensus : A good document .
Main question was , " Who would be the arbitrator on the special
provisions in Section 42 ? "
Mr . Fabbroni stated that the engineer certifies that the standards
have been met through his Certificate of Compliance . The Zoning
Board of Appeals is the final arbitrator if there is an argument .
2 . INSTITUTIONAL USE ZONE ( P )
Consensus : A good document that is needed .
Basically the Board said , " Good luck with Cornell and Ithaca College ,
but they will probably go along .
No comments on the Article in particular .
3 . CONSERVATION AREA
® Consensus : A good document that makes sense as it is .
There was some concern about the meaning of " limited " use . The
concept . seems to be one of " limited " use juxtaposed with " park " .
Mr . Stanton would like to see two sentences added to paragraph 3 .
of Section 1 . Purpose . " The intent is to preserve these areas in a
natural state . Limited use is expected by the public . " .
4 . AGRICULTURAL ZONE ( A )
Consensus : Well done , but a few questions should be looked at by
the Committee .
a . Section 27A . Purpose .
In the last sentence , replace " conserve open space " with " maintain
areas of open space " .
b . Section 28 . Building and Other Structural Regulations .
1 . Minimum enclosed floor area .
After . the word " area " in the text , add " for a dwelling " - -
because it could apply to . a pump house or a silo or whatever .
4 . Height Requirements .
Why is height of buildings controlled ? If for dwellings , it
should be so stated .
. ; , Summary of Planning Board Comments ( cont . ) 9 / 19 / 78
4 . Agricultural Zone ( A ) ( cont . )
® C . Section 27D . Special Permit Requirements .
2 . It was agreed by all the Board that the pig is no more
objectionable than any other of the common farm animals .
This paragraph should state EITHER " all animal raising "
OR " the raising of fur - bearing animals " .
5 . MOBILE HOME RESIDENCE ZONE ( R3 )
Consensus : Work needed on this Article . The comments follow :
1 . Change the Title ( for clarity to the reader ) to - -
RESIDENCE ZONE 3 ( R3 ) INCLUDING MOBILE HOMES
2 . Section 13
A . Purpose . Delete the words " which , through the word , Town " , so
that Purpose reads : " The general purpose of an R3
zone is to establish a zone for mobile home residen -
ces . "
The matter of providing for a variety of housing for
all income groups in the Town should be put in the
® Total Purpose of the ordinance .
3 . Mr . Stanton had the following comments :
a . " I have a problem with the R3 Zone idea . Should it not be an
area which accommodates a range of different housing and the
possibility somewhere within it of mobile homes on individual
lots and a mobile - home park ? Thus , it should be a Residence
. Zone Including Mobile Homes . Site Plan reviews should be for
the parks , not for the whole zone . It seems difficult to
establish now where the specific sites should be located in
advance . "
b . " Is this a floating zone ? It appears to be but perhaps we
should have the courage to designate . "
c . Purpose . " The general purpose of an R3 Zone is to establish a
limited area within a residential area where the
primary type of housing will be mobile homes or
similar modules . "
4 . The definition for Mobile Home should be expanded or changed because
there was a feeling by the Board that the legal definition of
mobile home ceases once the moving gear . ( wheels , axles , hitch , etc . )
are removed , thus creating a standard dwelling .
There was an opinion voiced generally by the Board that the Courts
have interpreted cases this way .
5 . There were complaints about the space requirement .
5 , 000 square foot lot is not financially feasible and effectively
eliminates any mobile home parks - - try 2 , 500 square feet .
.' ' , .Summary of Planning Board Comments ( cont . ) 9 / 19 / 78
5 . Mobile Home Residence Zone ( R3 ) ( cont . )
® 5 . ( cont . )
A number of Planning Board members felt that the 5 , 000 square foot
requirement was excessive .
6 . The Planning Board members felt that the 25 acre requirement may
be too large and unfair in the same way as item 5 , above .
e . g . , a multiple residence zone under the existing zoning ordinance
is one ( 1 ) acre ,
7 . There was some feeling that there should be minimum " dimensions "
for the zone in order to avoid a long strip ,
• 8 . Mr . Aron felt strongly that until the New York State Fire Safety
Code for mobile homes is revised permitting any mobile home park
would be dangerous .
Others felt that they had not heard of a whole park going up in
flames .
9 . Mr . Stanton would like toopermit mobile homes on individual lots
within any of the other residential districts .
6 . ASIDE from those sections proposed and herein reviewed - - .
The Planning Board felt that the Town of Ithaca Zoning Ordinance
should include a section on sanitary landfill and dumping areas .
Reason : The time will come when the other towns will ask the Town of
Ithaca to keep its own refuse .
7 . NEED :
The Planning Board felt quite handicapped by not - having - any
" definitions " to look at in conjunction with their review .