HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB Minutes 1974-12-03 TOT4rNT OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD
REGULAR MEETING
DECE14BER 3 , 1974
A regular meeting of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board was held
in the Town Offices , 108 East Green Street , Ithaca , N . Y . on December
3 , 1974 , at 7 : 30 p . m .
PRESENT : Chairwoman Barbara Holcomb , Robert Scannell , Maurice
Harris , Robert Christianson , Daniel Baker , Lawrence Fabbroni ( Plann .irg
Erigineer/Building Inspector ) , Reynolds Metz ( Assistant Building
Inspector ) .
ABSENT : Sam Slack , Jack Lowe , Arnold Albrecht .
ALSO PRESENT : Stephen Brouwer , Scott Heyman , T4 . Burr Chase ,
Michael Carroll , Mrs . 7irrumerman , Alan Goodman of the Ithaca Journal
and members of the Boy Scouts of America .
REPORT OF THE BUILDING INSPECTOR
Mr . Metz reported that contrary to national records , the Town had
a lot of building in November . There were 5 building permits issued
one house , 2 garages , a greenhouse and an extension , compared to last
year when we had one greenhouse and one garage .
REPORT OF THE PLANNING ENGINEER
Mr . Fabbroni reported that the planting is completed at Kennil -
worth . Mr . Scannell asked about the curbing and Mr . Fabbroni stated
that the Town Highway Department will be putting in something tempor-
ary .
Mr . Fabbroni reported that he is involved with the building of
the Bolton Road and that 1 , 300 of 4 , 500 feet of road is roughed out .
CONSIDERATION OF FINAL APPROVAL FOR 12 UNITS OF CLUSTER HOUSING ON
ELM STREET EXTENSION FOR LONGHOUSE COOPERATIVE , INC .
Mrs . Holcomb noted that this discussion has not been advertised
as a Public Hearing because there has been no substantial change in
the preliminary plans presented by Longhouse Cooperative , Inc . and
approved by the Planning Board ,
Mrs . Holcomb read a new letter of intent from Longhouse Coopera-
tive , Inc . ( see copy attached to the Official Minutes of this meeting ) .
In addition , Mrs . Holcomb presented a copy of the By-Laws of Longhouse
Cooperative , Inc . Mrs . Holcomb stated that subject to the opinion of
the Town Attorney , Mr . Buyoucos , it is her opinion that everything is ,
covered that needs to be covered . However , Mrs . Holcomb stated that
Mr . Buyoucos might think that more specific references ` to the mainten-
ance of open spaces and the payment .of taxes may be required.
Mrs . Holcomb asked Mr . Brouwer about the status of the Health
Department approval . Mr . Brouwer stated that the Health Department
would give them approval for three out of the four sites . One site
was questionable and its location might have to be changed . Approval
Town of Ithaca Planning Board - 2 - December 3 , 1974
could be given for the first site but after that approvals for addi -
. tional sites would have to go to the State Engineer for approval . Mr .
Brouwer presented his preliminary site plans dated August 25 , 1974 .
Mrs . Holcomb noted that the Board is looking at final approval
for the whole concept and then Longhouse will present final plans for
Stage 1 . Mr . Brouwer said that this was not the case - - the plans
here presented are the final plans .
Mrs . Holcomb wondered if three dwelling units in one structure
comes under the multiple dwelling regulations of the State . She was
of the opinion that it is four or more that constitute multiple
dwellings .
Mr . Fabbroni informed Mr . Brouwer that the State of New York
monitors multi - family dwellings and that he will check on whether it
is three or four units that comes under State direction .
MOTION by Mr . Robert Scannell , seconded by Mr . Robert Christiansor
RESOLVED , that the Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca approve
and hereby does approve the site plan dated August 25 , 1974 , presented
by Longhouse Cooperative , Inc . , for 12 units of cluster housing on
Elm Street Extension upon the condition of the acceptance of the Bye
Laws of said Lo'nghouse Cooperative , Inc . by the Town Attorney and
upon the condition of the receipt of the Health Department of Tompkins
County approval for Stage 1 .
• By way of discussion Mr . Christianson asked o '
o how much time it
might take to build the whole development . Mr . Brouwer stated that it
might be a good number of years since they have no set timetable . He
said that they have five members now so it is almost time to start
seriously planning Stage 2 . Stage 1 will start in April , 1975 and
Stage 2 perhaps in June 1975 . Mr . Heyman agreed and thought that
there might be two buildings completed in 1975 and the other two in
1976 .
There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote .
Aye _ Holcomb , Scannell , Harris , Christianson , Baker .
Nay - None .
The Chair declared the MOTION to be carried unanimously .
CHASE ' S PRODUCE ON MECKLENBURG ROAD ( FORMERLY MARSHALL FARM )
Mr . Fabbroni stated that Mr . Chase wants to talk to the Planning
Board about some contemplated changes in the use of the land ( part of
the old Marshall Farm ) they have purchased on land contract . from_ Eddy
Hill , - Inc . which are different from what they talked about with the
Board in August , 1974 .
Mr . Michael Carroll stated that the problem is that when they
appeared in late August they gave the Planning Board 17 points ( see
attachment to the Official Minutes ) which Chase ' s intended to carry
out under the zoning ordinance as it presently exists . One part of
the project up there depended upon establishing a wholesale canned
goods operation . He stated that they were unable to get in on a whole-
I .
Town of Ithaca Planning Board - 3 - December 3 , 1974
sale canned goods business which left a large part of the warehouse
empty . They need some income out of the main part of the warehouse .
They would like to run an auction service , not a retail auction
. business . It would involve good used merchandise which would be eold
on consignment . These auctions would be proposed to take place every
other Friday night . He stated that they have held one auction already,
He said that he and Mr . Chase are here before the Board appealing
mainly for approval for this kind of operation at the old Marshall
Farm site . He felt that the main concern of the Board will be how
much interference this kind of operation will have on the neighbor
hood . He noted that parking is ample for 200 cars and parking is
off the road . The building is heated and well lighted . The auctinr_
takes place from 6030 to 10 ° 00 or 10 : 30 p . m . All traffic is off. the
hill by 11000 p . m . He asked if the Board might have any questions
and if they can get tentative approval . The request is of a tempora.f•j%
nature to fill in until such time as they can establish a wholesale
canned goods business . He felt that this is important . They do not
intend to get into the auction service as a permanent part of the
operation .
Mr . Christianson stated that the auction service could get to be
more successful than they thought and they might want to keep it . Mr .
Carroll stated that that could be ® ® they have had a very good respons ,
from the public in general .
Mr . Christianson said that he thought there is no question about
the demand and the response and that he thought we could use a good
auction service here . He noted that his main concern would be whether
they can exercise control over the quantity � - the Planning Board does
not want to see materials overflowing the walls and then you have a
junk yard in the back .
Mr . Carroll said that he would invite the members of the Board
to go up to the site and inspect the buildings . The buildings are
only 20 years old . They are cinder block , fully heated and lighted .
Mr . Chris '�cianson said that they have a lot of parking and they
are far enough back from the road .
Mr . Carroll said that they do not want to disturb the neighbors .
He noted that those buildings are going to be there whether they use
them or not . It is zoned residential . The Marshall Farm was there ,
of course , and any other farm business that would go in there would
certainly be of a commercial nature .
Mr . Scannell noted that Mr . Carroll had mentioned a temporary use .
He asked how long they contemplate having this temporary use . Mr .
Carroll said that he just did not know . Mr . Chase stated that some
people are saying that it could be as long as five years before the
wholesale canned goods business will open up . He noted that they tried
to find canned goods even up in Canada . Mr . Carroll said that the
nursery is going pretty well and the wholesale produce business .
Mr . Scannell said that he would like to have a termination date
so that the Board can think about a temporary approval . He suggested
that the Board could approve the operation with a proviso that it can
be renewed .
Mr . Carroll said that he thought that approval should be for a
Town of Ithaca Planning Board - 4 - December 3 , 1974
minimum of one year at least .
Mr . Christianson agreed subject to review at the end of the
year .
Mrs . Holcomb said that the Board is going a little farther afield
on what this was supposed to be . It was a farm in a residential area
but all the things Chase ' s wished to do keep getting bigger .
Mrs . Nancy Tigner from the floor noted that there is already a
major traffic problem on Hector Street
Mr . Carroll said that he thought that traffic is a big considera-
tion , but he thought that the Board has to look at it with respect to
certain traffic conditions - - it is not a five: day a ,reek traffic
flow , just a certain number of hours every other Friday from say 5 : 30
to 110000 p . m .
Mr . Christianson said that he thought that 200 cars would not
even be noticed since they do not come and go at the same time . Mr .
Baker noted that everyone does not come back to Ithaca either . Mr .
Scannell noted that the majority of patrons will be coming across the
octopus of those that come to Ithaca .
Mr . Harris asked if they plan to have a concession stand . Mr .
Carroll said that there may be one inside the building ,
Mr . Baker asked if they plan to have someone deputized to supero
vise . Mr . Carroll said that they have h1red a couple of men to
handle traffic .
Mrs . Holcomb wondered whether or not this is a good operation for
this area and whether they should have a special permit , she was
uneasy about this kind of expansion of a non- conforming use .
Mr . Fabbroni stated that the traffic problem has to be addressed
but the use that they are suggesting is a less intensive use than the
commercial operation that was there before . He said that he happened
to be out at the site and it is obvious from the buildings that the
buildings were previously used quite intensively - - ventilation
systems , elevators , coolers , etc . - - all set up for a big operation .
Whatever the Board decides they have to decide what thecapability of
these buildings are and if they cannot be used to the extent that they
were used before from a tax standpoint they might as well be knocked
down .
Mrs . Holcomb said that if this is a reasonable use for the area
would the Town be better protected by rezoning it as a different zone
and not as a non- conforming use ,
Mr . Carroll pointed out that someone could move back in there
and start raising hogs - ® there are almost 300 acres . How it is to
be used is the question with specific reference to the buildings
® that are on the property . We are talking about very expensive build®
ings and properties .
Mrs . Holcomb said that the Board is trying to deal with what
exists without destroying what is around it and should be preserved .
Town of Ithaca Planning Board ® 5m December 3 , 1974
Mr . Scannell said that that is why he is interested in a time
limit . He asked if the matter has to go to the Town Board .
• Mr . Fabbroni stated that he had only thought about the matter
going to the Zoning Board of Appeals for a special permit much like
Morse Chain up at the P & Co
Mrs . Holcomb stated that it was her opinion that the Board was
going about this matter the wrong way . In the zoning ordinance under
nonconforming uses it states that no non_ conforming use shall bs
extended except by approval of the Zon =Ing Board of Pppcals .
MOTION by Mr . Robert Christianson , seconded by Mr . Robert Scannel. ?
RESOLVED , that the Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca recommen&
and hereby does recommend to the Zoning Board of Appeals of the Town
of Ithaca that a special permit be issued to Chase ' s Road Stan'. , Inc .
to operate for a period of one year an auction service at the Marshall
Farm site now occupied by Chase ' s Road Stand , Inc . ' The permit should
be subject to review at the end of one year at which time particular
attention will be given to the traffic generated by this operation
and its impact on the surrounding area particularly Hector Street . It
is understood that outside storage of auction goods will be prohibited ...
The Planning Board suggests that every effort be made to establish the
original intended wholesale food operation at this site and that the
auction service function be terminated as soon as possible .
• There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote .
Aye o Holcomb , Scannell , Harris , Christianson , Baker ,
Nay - None .
The Chair declared the MOTION to be carried unanimously .
DISCUSSION OF TRAFFIC AND PEDESTRIAN PROBLEMS ON MITCHELL STREET
BETWEEN CITY LINE AND JUDD FALLS ROAD
Mrs . Holcomb stated that the above named matter has been referred
to the Planning Board by the Town Board for a recommendation .
Mrs . Beverly Zimmerman and Mrs . Rdder were present representing
the people in the area with children walking to Belle Sherman School .
Mr . Fabbroni outlined his suggestions and determinations from
field studies made by him together with Mrs . Holcomb , the City of
Ithaca , and the County . He stated that he thought that the County
might taut in a pipe on the north side of Mitchell Street and a paved
walkway built on same .
Mrs . Zimmerman stated that the sidewalk that now exists in the
City goes up a high bank and literally ends up in someone ' s backyard .
Even if the Town put in sidewalks to the City line there is still two
blocks within the City without a sidewalk . Mr . Fabbroni suggested
that there might be some sort of crossing at the City/Town line so
that the children could walk on the Town walkway on the north and then
cross Mitchell -Street to the City sidewalk on the south side of
Mitchell Street .
Town of Ithaca . Planning Board - 6 - December 3 , 1974
Mrs . Zimmerman asked if the Board has discussed putting a marked
. crossing over to the City sidewalk on the south side of Mitchell
Street ,
Mr . Fabbroni said that ditches are already in here and piping
was no big problem and any crossing will be well signed sufficiently
in advance to warn of school children .
Mr . Scannell suggested coming down on the Koppers side to connect
with the sidewalk .
Mrs . Zimmerman noted that by putting the walkway in on the north
side you do not handle the Clover Lane children getting to school .
Mrs . Redder asked how one goes about getting a " SLOTS - - CHILDREN `
sign . Mr . Fabbroni said that he thought the Town can Fut up any sign
they want in a School zone . He also noted that the Town is appi.y -1..ncj
again to the NYS DOT for a 35 m . p . h . and 45 m . p . h . speed limit on
Mitchell Street from the City line to Judd Falls Road and from Judd
Falls to the Dryden Town Line ,
Mrs . Redder pointed out that the Maple Hill Apartments will
always have small children in it by the very nature of the apartments .
Mr . Fabbroni stated that at the next Town Board Meeting which is
December 9 , 1974 , the Planning Board will have specific recommendation •
Mrs . Zimmerman wished to point out also that cars are parking
along Mitchell Street to add to the hazard . She also commented that
all the discussion seems to be in terms of long range solutions , but
what can we do right now? It is indeed a very dangerous situation .
She noted that the PTA has approached the School and asked to have a
bus pick up children from Cornell Quarters on a temporary basis and
it might help to get this bus service if the Town could tell the
School that they are looking at the problem on the long range basis .
Mrs . Holcomb stated that the problem will be viewed under some
of the following directions - - we can look at signs , we can pursue
the matter with the City , and we can pursue the matter with the
County for the establishment of a walkway on the north side of
Mitchell Street in the Town .
Mr . Fabbroni stated again that he will definitely have recommen-
dations by next Monday .
DISCUSSION OF PROPOSAL BY A . L . COGGSHALL , 1336 SLATERVILLE ROAD , FOR
DIVISION OF PROPERTY
Mrs . Holcomb stated that Mr . Coggshall was in last week to see
her re a problem he faces in trying to sell a parcel on Slaterville
Road which is part of the larger parcel of over 5 acres . If the Town
is going to require a second method of access to this backland then
the second access must come through the portion facing on Slaterville
Road . This needs to be determined before he divides the parcel and
tries to sell a lot facing on Slaterville Road , Mr . Coggshall does
not have any firm plans for this back area but he wants to sell the
house and subdivide it from the rest of the back parcel .
Town of Ithaca Planning Board - 7 - December 3 , 1974
The second point Mrs . Holcomb noted is that for the access off
Slaterville Road , if one were to be required , the Town might agree to
a 50 ' right of way only instead of the presently required 601 , but Mr ,
• Fabbroni says the site distance may be a problem and width of Slater -
ville Road is very bad where this proposed road would intersect with
Slaterville Road . The possibility of establishing a fire lane through
Mr . Schickel ' s Eastwood Commons was proposed by Mr . Coggshall ,
Mrs . Holcomb read a letter from Mr . A . L . Coggshall written by
W . L . Coggshall and dated December 1i 1974 . ( See Minutes ) , The items
referred to in the letter do not present a clear picture of the
physical layout of the area .
Mr . Scannell said that he thought that someone should go and
look at it before the Board answers his letter . It is important to
know what the concrete " thing " is ,
There followed a discussion of the fire lane from Schickel ' s
property .
Mr . Scannell said that he did not see the cul de sac problem of
simply extending Eastwood Avenue . It is too long now so what does
50 ' or 1001 more mean ,
Mrs . Holcomb asked if it were the general feeling of the Board
that they do not want another road coming into Slaterville Road , Mir .
Scannell stated that no such decision should be trade or any recommen-
dations made to Mr . Coggshall before the site is looked at .
The matter will be discussed again after a site inspection has
been made .
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned by the Chair at 9010 p . m . , upon Motion .
Respectfully submitted ,
Nancy M . Fuller , Secretary .
• LONGHOUSE COOPERATIVE , INC .
Letter - of Intent
To : Town of Ithaca Planning Board
We , Elizabeth Brouwer , Stephen Brouwer , Rose K . Goldsen ,
Scott Heyman , and Sarah Wessels , incorporators of and shareholders
in Longhouse Cooperative , Inc . , hereby make application to proceed
under Section 281 of Town Law for the development of our property ,
Tax parcel # a8 _ ( _') g ' 4 We intend to build housing on 11 . 6 acres
of land on Elm Street Extension in the Town of Ithaca . We intend
to build 12 units of housing - - four buildings containing three
units each as shown in our preliminary site plan . Development
will occur in four stages , each building of three units being
one stage Therefore , if we are granted approval of our prelimin -
• ary plans , we will submit for final approval the plans for stage
one - - the three unit building indicated at site one in the prelimin -
ary site plan ,
The entire development - - 11 . 6 acres of land and all buildings
and facilities - - will be owned and operated by Longhouse Cooperative ,
Inc , Units of housing will be leased to the members of that
corporation , All maintenance and improvements of the land and
buildings will be the responsibility of the Cooperative , through
its Board of Directors and its membership . Members of the coopera -
tive will be assessed by the Board of Directors for such charges
as may result .
Respectfully submitted 8 / 29 / 74
• Elizabeth Brouwer , Stephen Brouwer ,
Rose K . Goldsen , Scott Heyman ,
Sarah Wessels
i
( Sub division of
Marshall Farm, Rt . 79 , Town of Ithaca , to be used as follows :
1 . All operations will be agriculture oriented.
2 , Wholesale produce business .
3 . Possible retail produce business ; (No road stand of any
type to be on the main highway. )
� . Greenhouse , wholesale operation out of main dairy barn .
a 5 . Grain storage in the grainery.
6 . Bulk storage in the pole barn.
7 . Flower business , wholesale out of the milk house .
8 . Storage rental of the agriculture items in the hatchery
building .
9 . Rental of office space if needed .
10 . Rental of two apartments and one tenant house .
11 . Large house to be used by one of the owners of the business
for his home .
12 . Garage use for parking of company equipment .
13 . Bull barn to be used for storage of peat moss , marble chips ,
and stones .
lb . Land to be used for nursery stock growing and plantings also
for cash crops , such as sw< et corn, peppers , beans , straw-
berries , etc .
15 . No live stock of any type will be on --the location .
16 . No type of light or heavy industry- will be preformed from
the location . All operations will strickly agriculture in
nature .
• 17 . The0are involved ft ' about 13-14 arces , all west of the
present location of the building known as the bull barn .
The line will run from the center of Rt . 79 , south about
6501 to 700 ' feet , west , about 911 ' feet , north, about
650 ' to 700 ' feet , and east about 911 ' feet . This property
is located about 700 ' feet west of the rand in the Town of
s Ithaca , known as the West Haven Road, and once known as
Titus Road.
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December 1 , 1974
Mrs . Barbara Holcomb
Town of Ithaca Planning Board
East Green Street
Ithaca , New York 14850
Dear Mrs . Holcomb :
Mr . Richard Agard and I talked with you a week ago concerning the
possible requirement for an exit , in addition to Eastwood Avenue , for
approximately 5 acres of land owned by Mr . A. L . Coggshall of 1336
Slaterville Road . Mr . Coggshall ' s house at that address is for sale and
a right - of- way would have to be reserved now for the future .
Unfortunately , I find that not even a 50 ft . right - of -way for an
exit to Slaterville Road is possible on his property ( adjacent fo Bradt
property ) because N. Y . S . E . &G. has had an easement - for a number of years
and has made an underground concrete installation effectively preventing
a full width right - of-way .
This letter is to request an exception to the normal exit widthre -
and the permission of the Town Board to use a narrower , one-way
street for that second entrance ( or exit to the 5 acres ) on Slaterville
Road .
It seems to me that since fire safety appears to be the reason for
the second access facility that a one-way street would provide this .
It might also be pointed out that a previous decision by the Town
Board is the reason why no full size second access is available , namely
that Eastwood Commons not exit on Eastwood Avenue ( through the 5 acre plot
owned by Coggshall ) as originally preferred by Mr . Schickel . No full sized 2nd
exit is now available for this property of Mr . Coggshall ' s .
Sincerely yours ,
W. L . Cog ha 1 for A. L . Co shall
WLC : js