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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB Minutes 1974-10-01 r / TOTV OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD REGULAR MEETING OCTOBER 1 , 1974 A regular meeting of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board was held in the Town of Ithaca Offices , 108 East Green Street , Ithaca , N . Y . , at 7030 p . m . on Tuesday , October 1 , 1974 . PRESENT : Chairwoman Barbara Holcomb , Robert Scannell , Maurice Harris , Sam Slack , Jack Lowe , Lawrence Fabbroni ( Planning Engineer/ Zoning Officer ) , and Reynolds Metz (Assistant Zoning Officer ) . ABSENT : Daniel Baker , Arnold Albrecht , Robert Christianson , ALSO PRESENT : Emil Policay of Ithaca College , Alan Goodman of the Ithaca Journal , and several citizens ( see attached list ) . Chairwoman Holcomb called the meeting to order at 7 : 30 p . m . REPORT OF ZONING OFFICER Mr . Reynolds Metz reported that there were 7 building permits issued in the month of September compared with 5 in August ( note that Minutes of September 3 , 1974 , state that 6 building permits were issued in August ) . The dollar value of the construction involved in the above report is $ 144 , 000 . 00 as compared to $ 19 , 000 . 00 a year ago . Mr . Fabbroni reported , as Zoning Officer , that there were three appeals to the Zoning Board of Appeals . Two variances were granted under the section dealing with the 50 % requirement for apartments . One special permit was granted to extend the special permit already granted to P & C Food Markets for the leasing of their building to Morse Chain . REPORT OF COUNTY PLANNING OFFICE Mrs . Holcomb reported on a variety of meetings that both she and Mr . Fabbroni have been attending on the proposed loop ( circumferential ) road . They talked to the City Planning Dept , last week before the City Planners talked to Mr . Frank Liguori on the impact to the City . She . and Mr . Fabbroni met yesterday afternoon at Ithaca College with representatives of NCR , Morse Chain , Therm , Ithaca College , South Hill Civic Association , Frank Liguori and Harry Missirian of the County Planning Department . She noted that the South Hill Civic Association ' will be meeting with the County and Town Planners on October 24 , 1974 , and the Northeast Civic Assoc . will be meeting with them on October 16 , 1974 . There followed a brief discussion of the loop road concept as outlined in the Report of the Consultant , John MacNeil , REPORT OF PLANNING ENGINEER Mr . Fabbroni wished to clear up any questions that the Planning Board members might have as to the seeming mess at the landscaping strip at Kennilworthos shopping plaza on East , Hill . He stated that Bradley Landscaping is preparing the site and will come and actually do the planting during the 3rd or 4th week of October . Mr . Fabbroni reported that the new zoning ordinance will be dis - cussed at the October 15th , 1974 , Planning Board meeting already schedult ' Town of Ithaca Planning Board - 2 - October 1 , 1974 and asked that the members bring their copies with them . Mr . Fabbroni also reported on the several meetings that he has attended on the cross -town road . The South Hill meeting was very productive especially in so far as the reactions from the industry as opposed to the reaction from Ithaca College and Cornell . Mr . Fabbroni forecasted some of the items that will come to the Planning Board over the next year . 1 . Flood Plain zoning will be coming in connection with the National Flood Plain Insurance program . This has a July 1st deadline , No lend ing institution can lend money to anybody for construction in a flood plain if the municipality has not taken the steps necessary to qualify its residents for flood plain insurance . 2 . The new zoning ordinance , 3 . Park Policy , 4 . Subdivision Regulations , Mr . Fabbroni reported on the status of Campbell Avenue improvement presently under construction . Mr . Fabbroni reported that the work being done up on Snyder Hill Road that has precipated many telephone calls and neighborhood question .c is the levelling off of land back of an existing home owned by Dr . Baldwin on Pine Tree Road . The Baldwins intend to turn the entire area of the back land they own into a park for children . There will be a ball field , soccer field , sledding slopes , a pond to drain the area w- 11 be used for skating . They have about 11 acres . Mr . Fabbroni reported on the Eastern Heights area and the develop ment of Tudor Road lots . He stated that any building permits on Skyvue and King ' s Lane will be contingent upon drainage coming down to Slaterville Road through Frandsen property , Drainage easements must be worked out prior to any building activity on these two roads by developers . PRESENTATION OF PLANS FOR A CHAPEL ON THE ITHACA COLLEGE CAMPUS Mr . Emil Policay , Director of Buildings and Grounds , appeared before the Board and presented the entire set of plans pertinent to the proposed construction of a Chapel in the center of the Ithaca College Campus . He stated that it will be a relatively small structure , approx - imately 90 ' square , located south of the skating pond . The Chapel will be a maximum of 54 ' in height . The view from inside will be toward the pond and the Lake . It will be constructed of concrete block with Llenrock facing . There will be no formal seating in the sancturary it will be like stairs . There will be two offices and a meeting room . The interior decor will be mostly wood . The roof will be sheet metal . Construction should be starting by next spring ® 1975 . The funds are not complete as yet , but they hope to have the funds by spring . Mrs . Holcomb asked about the drainage . Mr . Policay stated that the drainage will go from the Chapel into the pond . He stated further that there are no problems with utilities . Mr . Harris asked how many people the new chapel will seat . Mr . Policay stated that it would probably hold 300 to 400 people because there is no formal seating using the tiered plan . He also stated that Town of Ithaca Planning Board - 3 ® October 1 , 1974 there would probably be a usual number of 100 to 200 people in it ® Mrs . Holcomb suggested that the College be careful about the kind of floor material they choose for the tiers because some kinds are very scratchy . Mr . Fabbroni asked if the plans here presented have been or will be inspected by the New York State Building Housing and Building Codes Bureau , Mr . Policay said that the local office will check them and normally their architect takes care of this matter . MOTION by Mr . Sam Slack , seconded by Mr . Robert Scannell : RESOLVED , that the Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca approve and hereby does approve the plans for a Chapel on the Ithaca College Campus as presented by Mr . Emil Policay to the Planning Board on October 1 , 1974 . There being no further discussion , the Chair called for a vote . Aye - Holcomb , Scannell , Harris , Slack , Lowe . Nay - None , The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously . DISCUSSION AS TO THE FUTURE STATUS OF SANDRA PLACE EXTENSION Mrs . Holcomb reported that the Town Board at their meeting of September 91 1974 , requested an advisory opinion from the Planning Board on the Sandra Place question to be ready for their next meeting on October 7 , 1974 . She briefly outlined the background of the matter before the Board . She referred to a Town Board Resolution of December 8 , 1969 ( # 491 ) which states : " Councilman McElwee ; seconded by Council® man Baker , moved that Town accept Burleigh Drive . It was further resol- ved to accept Sandra Place Ext . subject to certification of road by Supt . of Highways , Marion Morey . Carried . " Mrs . Holcomb noted that since that road ( Sandra Place Ext . ) has never been built , the Resolutior. sits . It was Mrs . Holcomb ° s opinion that the Town Board has to take some action to rescind that Resolution or take some action on it . Mrs . Holcomb then proceeded to a discussion of matters of impor- tance relating directly or indirectly to this question . 1 . Area speed limits granted . a . 30 m . p . h . area speed limit . b . The signs have been ordered . C . Methods of enforcement of area speed limits are being investi - gated . 2 . Northeast Committee - includes Cornell , County , Lansing , Village of Cayuga Heights and Town of Ithaca people . Mr . Fabbroni will report on his plan of procedure . ® Mr . Fabbroni began by stating that there is always a criteria before any new traffic control signs are put up - - detailed traffic studies should be made . He stated that he , as traffic engineer , will observe first hand what is happening up there in the Northeast . In regard to the Schoenfeld development and the concerns of the people regarding the opening or closing of Sandra Place , he stated that it is , Town of Ithaca Planning Board - 4 - October 1 , 1974 clear studies must be made of safety of children going to school , means • of traffic control to preserve neighborhood character by providing for localized traffic and discouraging through traffic , traffic counts to determine existing roadway use , and problem areas . Mr . Fabbroni stated that these studies will be completed by June 1975 , As a result of these studies recommendations will be made by him - 0 e . g . - - school crossing signs , four -way stops , yield signs - - to the Town Board , Mrs . Holcomb noted that contrary to the procedure that we must follow to get a speed limit change whereby we must go to the NYS DOT with an application , the Town does have the right to establish a stop street upon Town Board resolution . Mrs . Holcomb also noted that some of these studies mentioned by Mr . Fabbroni will hopefully be done in cooperation with the Village of Cayuga Heights , Mr . Roger Payne , from the floor , asked if the proposed studies should not be a part of the decision that the Planning Board is asked to make at this meeting . Mr . Fabbroni replied that the nature of the problem that is to be discussed tonight has to do with circulation . It is rather a policy matter , He stated that he will have a few more points to consider if Sandra Place is opened . Mr . Merle Lalonde stated from the floor that traffic is really what we are talking about , He then presented two copies of an aerial photograph of the Northeast area to more clearly indicate what the problem is as he sees it . He pointed out the location of the playgrounoa that is used constantly ( Northeast School ) . He asked just what is the logic of opening Sandra Place ? He stated that the photo shows clearly that people will go along Sandra Place to get to Jamesway . He pointed out to Mr . Fabbroni and stated to him that as a traffic engineer he must see that people will not go the long way around when they can go through Sandra Place . Mr . Lalonde further stated that traffic would be increased on upper Winthrop Drive past the school . There followed a lengthy discussion between Mr . Fabbroni and Mr . Lalonde in terms of traffic simulation . Mr . Fabbroni maintained that traffic controls can be utilized at any point in time as deemed most appropriate to the situation existant at the time of their utilization , A lady living on Burleigh Drive stated from the floor that her children walk to both the Junior High ( DeWitt ) and the Elementary School ( Northeast ) . They do not take the bus . She also referred to the four houses on upper Burleigh and stated that the children from there walk also . Mrs . Holcomb now referred to the Petitions that have been receivec by the Planning Board both for and against the opening of Sandra Place . ( See attached summary sheet ) . Mrs . Holcomb stated that the results of the two petitions have been plotted on a map which has been placed on the wall in the Board Room for the Board and the public to see . Mrs . Holcomb described the method used in plotting the results of the peti- tionse red - close ; green-open ; yellow-undeveloped lots . Mrs . Holcomb also commented that as Chairman of the Planning Board she has received complaints from both sides that the other side is issuing false information . Mrs . Holcomb noted that there are 225 individuals pati - ® tioning " for the opening of Sandra Place and 139 individuals petitioning for its closing . There followed a lengthy discussion of what these numbers include as shown on the attached summary sheet . Town of Ithaca Planning Board - 5 - October 1 , 1974 Mrs . Holcomb stated that she would now present , without prejudice , the arguments that have been presented to the Planning Board on the future of Sandra Place Extension , A . Open Sandra Place , 1 . Better circulation . 2 . Lessen traffic on lower Burleigh Drive . 3 , Lessen traffic on lower Winthrop Drive . 4 . Lessen impact on Five Corners . 5 . More direct route to schools . B . Close Sandra Place . 1 . More traffic on Sandra Place . 2 . Use new route as an alternate to Warren Road and Triphammer . 3 . More traffic in school area . 4 . More traffic on roads on which children walk going to school . 5 . Create a more dangerous intersection at Winthrop- Sandra- Brandy wine . Mrs . Holcomb now asked if there were any additions to this list . Mrs . Norman Dykema from the floor stated that the Burleigh Drive traffic problem was the beginning of this whole question - both the speed thereon and the number . The traffic is coming from the Lansing area . If Sandra Place is opened , they will have the original traffic as well as the additional traffic going to the schools . The Christopher Circle people want it open for a route to get through to the shopping centre . She stated that she sees the people on the upper part of Burle ; Drive will be in a much worse position than when they originally asked for help . Mr . Roger Payne stated that it would be shorter to go from Burleic_ Drive and Uptown Road to Hanshaw by following Sandra- -Brandywine- - Blackstone rather than going Uptown Drive--Warren--Hanshaw , Mr . Payne strongly urged a complete engineering study being made before any decision is rendered . A gentleman from the floor asked if the goal was to have the easy access or through traffic or is the goal a minimum of traffic ? He thought that indirect traffic is better than traffic flow . With refer- ence to the Schoenfeld development , he stated that the Planning Board feels that it is better to keep traffic limited to neighborhood traffic . Mrs . Holcomb asked that people please keep in mind in making judgments on traffic patterns that the only basis on which you can make conclusions now are the present traffic patterns . For example , the stoF signs on Warren and Hanshaw -- those stop signs possibly should be reversed . Maybe a four -way stop , So , patterns that exist would change drastically . Measures to control and, determine traffic patterns can be taken whether Sandra Place is open or closed . Mrs . Holcomb outlined again what action can be taken by the Planning Board . ® 1 . Close Sandra Place permanently and remove the extension that is on the map from the Official Map and rescind the resolution here- inabove referred to from the books . 2 . Recommend that at this time Sandra Place not be opened and acquire „ Town of Ithaca Planning Board - 6 - October 1 , 1974 the right of way from Mr . Schoenfeld . 3 , Recommend that Sandra Place can be opened as soon as it is com- pleted to highway specifications . ® Mrs . Dykema asked where does Sandra Place Extension becoming a walkway and bideway fit into the above . Mrs . Holcomb stated that it does under all three , as a possibility alongside of it . However , she noted that to make it only a walkway it would fit only under Number 1 above . A lady from the floor pointed out the " bridge ” problem - - the culvert is too narrow to accommodate a road and a walkway . Mrs . Holcomb was of the opinion that an adjacent culvert could be put in in the right of way which is 601 , if necessary . Mr . Lowe asked Mr , Fabbroni if Winthrop Drive is considered by him to be an arterial ( through road ) or a neighborhood road . Mr . Fabbroni stated that he would look at this whole area as a neighborhood so the point would be to balance traffic on all roads . Mr . Fabbroni continued with a lengthy discussion of the merits of opening Sandra Place Extension at this point in time . Both from a planning and engineering point of view , with expertise and experience in both , it was his determination that by an intelligent use of traffic controlling devices , traffic patterns can and will be encouraged to flow in a pat® tern that is of optimum benefit to the neighborhood , Traffic deterrents are as useful a tool as traffic encouragements . Planning and engineerin are balanced to produce the maximum benefit to the neighborhood . The neighborhood encompasses a large area bounded by Warren-Triphammer- Hanshaw and the Town line , and' the resident of that neighborhood from the edges of it are still a part of it and should be given as many options of road usage as the ones in the center . If various options ® are available the load on any one road is lessened . Mr . Roger Payne stated that the residents closest to Sandra P1 . do not object to the neighborhood concept . The problem as they see it is the high density population in the Lansing area in the four apart- ment complexes . Mrs . Dykema repeated her thoughts on the Burleigh Drive problem being worse . Mrs . Holcomb pointed out that the Summary Map exhibited indicates that the Burleigh Drive people do not want to close Sandra P1 . Mr . Lowe pointed out that the residents that are here present now are justifiably concerned that what we are talking about might not happen ( traffic controls ) and that these things cannot be counted upon . He stated that he could see a real pattern on the plotted map . The people on Winthrop really do not want Sandra P1 . opened . We have heard very few arguments from the residents who want it opened . Mr . Harris said that we have heard from 225 of them by petition . A lady from the floor stated that the persons walking around with the petition to close Sandra Place did not go to Warwick Pl . and Randolp Rd . They did not ask for signatures down there because they did not feel that it was fair . Mrs . Dykema stated that the 1968 resolution to put Sandra Place through came about because the Town Board felt that Uptown Road would go through and relieve traffic . It did not go through , Town of Ithaca Planning Board - 7 - October 10 1974 A lady living adjacent to Sandra Place stated that when she pur- chased her home she was told that Sandra Place would go through and be opened and that was what she wanted to see , ® Mr . Lalonde spoke again with Mr , Fabbroni for some time on traffic patterns and deterrents . Mr . Scannell stated that he thought that it was wonderful that all these people have come here tonight to yet another meeting on this mat- ter , He also stated that the Board is hearing the same arguments that they have heard over the past five years , MOTION by Mr . Robert Scannell , seconded by Mr . Maurice Harris * RESOLVED * that the Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca recommend to the Town Board that Sandra Place be opened . Mrs . Holcomb stated that there is a Motion on the floor and it is now open for discussion , Mr , Fabbroni stated that he felt as a Planner that Sandra Place should be open because the benefits that it will have for Winthrop Dr , west of Sandra Place are positive , The benefits for Winthrop Drive east of Sandra Place are very little different than if it remains closed . He stated that he took this position because there are traffic deterrents that will work , his position being based on past experience in this field , It does improve local circulation for people that live in that hypothetical neighborhood . The problem spots that exist now will be less because there will be more options to use . Deterrents will make it beneficial time wise not to go through that neighborhood , Uptown Drive is not a dead issue . It is a political issue now and take .c the support of the people in the Village to convince the Board that they should take that position . It improves the situation as far as people coming down Burliegh to the Five Corners . This is a side issue . Mr . Fabbroni felt very strongly that any delay now only makes a decision even more difficult later -- as evidenced by the five year delay we have all seen , Mr . Scannell wondered if there is any way that we can get the input from the rest of the Board , Mrs ® Holcomb merely commented that she had heard from Mr . Baker and Mr . Albrecht by telephone and not having heard the discussion tonight , of course , they at that point were split one for and one against opening . Mr . Lowe stated that he is opposed to the Motion on the floor . 1 . Increase traffic from outside coming through the area . 2 . What the changes are going to be to control this kind of traffic through the area , 3 . Agreed that the Uptown Drive issue is a political issue which is unfortunate , and opening Sandra Place only weakens that situation , 4 . Believes in the support of the residents of the area and they have supported closing it , Mr . Harris commented that the last statement is not what is ® indicated on the tally . Mr . Lowe rebutted take out the people from Cayuga Heights , Mr , Slack stated that he is opposed to the Motion . He said that he would favor a second motion which would be to obtain a right of way so that the extension could be acquired at a later date , He said he Town of Ithaca Planning Board - 8 - October 1 , 1974 agreed with Mr . Lowe about taking out the Cayuga Heights people . The opening or closing does not affect them . You have the support of the neighborhood to close it . Mrs . Holcomb asked that under Robert ' s Rules of Order would Mr . Scannell withdraw his Motion temporarily . He said that he would do so . Mrs . Holcomb presented the following statement : " My judgment says that Sandra Place should be open . Two weeks ago I would have opted for position # 2 hereinabove stated , i . e . , the Town acquiring the property at this point . I will oppose firmly its removal from the official map . I had felt that putting off a decision at this point simply makes it harder . However , in view of what you have said tonight and the fact that the Planning Board is clearly split in its opinion , I would suggest that Sandra Place Extension not be opened at this time , but that it remain on the official map , that the Town acquire the right of way and that a firm decision to open or close Sandra Place be made by July 1 , 1975 . � r . Slack stated that he would support the above statement by Mrs . Holcomb , Mrs . Holcomb now stated that the floor is open for Motions . She asked Mr . Scannell if he wished to resubmit his Motion . He said that he did and Mr . Harris reseconded it . Mr . Scannell stated then that the Planning Board has been asked to make a decision on either the opening or the closing . He stated that he thought , like Mrs . Holcomb , that delaying it will only make it har - der . He stated firmly that he thought that it should have been opened ® six years ago when it was first designed and approved by both the Planning Board and the Town Board . There was no further discussion on Mr . Scannell ° s Motion . The Chair called for a vote . Aye - Robert Scannell , Maurice Hargis . Nay - Barbara Holcomb , Jack Lowe , Sam Slack , The Motion was declared defeated . MOTION by Mrs . Barbara Holcomb , seconded by Mr . Sam Slacko RESOLVED , that the Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca recommend and hereby does recommend to the Town Board that Sandra Place . not be opened at this time , and THAT the Town acquire the land from Otto Schoenfeld for the right of way for Sandra Place Extension , and THAT Sandra Place Extension remain on the Official Town Map as a proposed road , and THAT a firm and final decision be made as to the opening or closing of Sandra Place no later than July 1 , 1975 , by which time the traffic studies for this neighborhood area proposed by the Planning Engineer will have been completed . There was no further discussion and the Chair called for a vote . ® Aye - Holcomb , Slack , Lowe , Harris . Nay - Scannell . The MOTION was declared to be carried by majority vote . Mrs . Holcomb will present this Resolution to the Town Board on October 7 , 1974 . Town of Ithaca Planning Board - 9 - October 1 , 1974 ADJOURNMENT Upon Motion the meeting was adjourned at 10020 p . m . 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