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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB Minutes 1974-04-23 i • TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD REGULAR MEETING APRIL 23 , 1974 . A regular meeting of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board was held on Tuesday , April 23 , 1974 , in the Town of Ithaca Offices , 108 East Green Street , Ithaca , New York , at 7 : 30 p . m . PRESENT : Chairwoman Barbara Holcomb , Sam Slack , Robert Scannell , Daniel Baker , Jack Lowe , Peter Francese ( Planning Consultant ) , Ken Kroohs ( Planning Engineer ) . ABSENT : Arnold Albrecht , Robert Christianson , Maurice Harris . ALSO PRESENT : Approximately 30 interested citizens and members of the press and radio ; Mr . Thomas Easterly , candidate for the position of Planning Engineer . The meeting was called to order by Chairwoman Holcomb at 7 : 40 p . m PRELIMINARY DISCUSSION OF APPROVAL FOR REMAINING SECTIONS OF ARTHUR " DUTCH " PRINCE SUBDIVISION ON ST . CATHERINE CIRCLE . Mrs . Holcomb noted that the plan presently before the Planning Board covers the remaining sections of Mr . Prince ® s subdivision . Mrs . Holcomb stated that Mr . Prince has requested that the Planning Board call a Public Hearing to consider approval of the remainder of his subdivision , i . e . , Lots 2 through 14 Block 2 and Lots 2 through 12 Block 1 . She also noted that Mr . Prance has subdivided Lot # 7 Block 2 into 2 lots , said subdividing not being shown on the plan . MOTION by Mr . Daniel Baker , seconded by Mr . Robert Scannell : RESOLVED , that the Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca shall call a Public Hearing for consideration of the final site plan of the Arthur " Dutch " Prince Subdivision on St . Catherine Circle for Tuesday , May 7 , 1974 , at 7045 p . m . in the Town of Ithaca Offices . Formal vote was deferred until a quorum was present . DISCUSSION OF TRAFFIC PROBLEMS ON BURLEIGH DRIVE Mrs . Holcomb stated that this is the portion of the meeting in which to hear problems and proposals for the Burleigh Drive area . She then opened the meeting for public discussion , and indicated on the map where Burleigh Drive is located in the Town . Mr . James W . Heck , 324 Winthrop Drive , Cayuga Heights : Mr . Heck spoke to the proposal that has been made to open up Sandra Drive thru to Burleigh Drive . He stated that he had come to the Town Offices for a meeting three or four years ago when the opening of Sandra Place was first discussed . He stated that at that time there was no one present ® at that meeting who was in favor of opening Sandra Place . He stated that at that time there was very little housing on Burleigh Drive except for the developer of the area . Mr . Heck was concerned about the traffic flow . Mr . Heck felt that the prime concern of the Planning Board should be the children of the area . He said that he would like to see something done to prevent the use of Winthrop Drive Town of Ithaca Planning Board - 2 - April 23 , 1974 as a speed way . He felt that if Sandra Place were opened up another Watkins Glen raceway will develop . He stated that the 30 -mile speed limit on Winthrop Drive is very rarely observed , and felt very strongly that it is so bad that some day in the near future a child is going to be killed . He urged the placing of a stop sign at Sandra Place and Winthrop Drive . He did not see creating more access as any benefit to the taxpayers of the area . He stated that the flow of traffic should not be the main concern . He suggested dead ending Burleigh Drive , Mrs . Holcomb pointed out that if Burleigh Drive were to be dead-ended , then that street for its entire length would be a dead end . The Town is restricted in that it cannot have a cul -de - sac of more than 500 feet because of the fire hazard created by only one entrance to a street . She stated that if Burleigh Drive were dead-ended at the Town line , the Town would have to open up Sandra Place . Mr . Francese asked if the two courses of action above noted do not indeed go together ? Mrs . Holcomb said that the Town Board has stated for many years that they plan to open Sandra Place , Mr . Norman D . Dykema , 5 Sandra Place , Town of Ithacan Mr . Dykema asked how far it is from the intersection of Burleigh Drive and Uptown Road to the intersection of Sandra Place and Burleigh Drive ? Mrs . Holcomb stated that it was 938 feet , and , that if Burleigh Drive is closed there is only one access unless Sandra Place is opened . • Mr . Francese noted that there are so few houses on Burleigh Drive , if Burleigh Drive is closed and Sandra Place opened up , there will not be a large flow of traffic going along Sandra Place . Mr . Roger B . Payne , 4 Sandra Place , Town of Ithaca : Mr . Payne stated that at the time he bought his house Sandra Place was a cul �de® sac . He could see no real problem with closing Burleigh Drive , Mr . Payne said that he had counted 13 cars going up Burleigh Drive in a 30 �minute period . He suggested that there is a need to put traffic counters out on Burleigh Drive and Winthrop Drive . He also stated that presently Sandra Place provides a safe walkway for children going to school . He pointed out that the present tax map shows Sandra Place going through over to Uptown Village , which is not even in the Town of Ithaca , Mrs , Holcomb stated that she agreed with Mr . Payne ° s suggestion of instituting a traffic count . She noted that Mr . Payne had mentioned that there is a 30 -mile limit on Winthrop Drive . She pointed out that Application has been made to the DOT to make the entire Northeast area a 30 �mile limit area . However , the DOT has lost the request for the area speed limit and is trying to locate it . Mr . Herbert Mahr , 103 Judd Falls Road , Town of Ithacae Mr . Mahr said that he has suggested at numerous budget hearings that the Town of • Ithaca have a constable and it was turned down . He felt that it was necessary to have a constable in order to enforce speed limits . Mrs . Holcomb wondered if it were possible to build a road which follows the Ithaca®Lansing line connecting Triphammer Road and Warren Road . She asked if such were a possibility , did the audience think that this would reduce the traffic flow that is presently coming into the Town ? Mr . Payne said that it would , but not reduce the traffic to Town of Ithaca Planning Board - 3 - April 23 , 1974 DeWitt Junior High and Northeast school . • It was the general feeling that this would help , but that Cayuga ` Heights Village had refused this plan . Mr . Francese stated that he had been at that meeting with the Village and they had refused for the same reasons that people here were objecting to the proposal to open Sandra Place or close Burleigh Drive or put traffic on Winthrop Drive . They had to have the question " what does it do for us ? answered . There had been a suggestion of closing Burleigh Drive on a temporary basis - - in the case of emergency it could be opened . Mr . Payne thought there was the added problem of Brandywine which goes over to Christopher Circle . Mrs . Ellen Dykema , 5 Sandra Place , Town of Ithaca ° It was Mrs . Dykema ' s opinion that one cannot look at opening a street without looking at one end all the way to the other . She said she could see Sandra Place going through all the way to Uptown Village . This area has approximately 20 houses , a large church and approximately 70 homes proposed . People could go through Sandra Place to Brandywine across to Hanshaw . She felt that the Planning Board was opening up a major thoroughfare by opening Sandra Place , Mrs . Dykema did not think that Winthrop Drive could take any more traffic . That is the street that has the school . She felt that Sandra Place coming into Winthrop Drive • is a very dangerous corner . Mr . Harry Missirian , County Planners Mr . Missirian felt that in order for the Town to change from the position of opening up Sandra Place reasonable reasons for not opening it up should be heard . The children walking problem could be a good reason . He stated that he would like to work on a design for walkways . The residential quality is a prime concern . Mr . Missirian suggested that at the present moment it would be wise to leave everything as it is . Mrs . Bernard F . Stanton , 2 Sandra Place , Town of Ithaca : Mrs . Stanton stated that she agreed with Mr . Missirian . She said that she built on Sandra Place when it was a cul -de - sac . She said if the Town opens up Sandra Place the area residents could come back next year and ask the Town to close Sandra Place . She felt that this matter should be very seriously studied . Mr . Malcolm Hunter , 134 Burleigh Drive . , Town of Ithaca ° Mr . Hunter stated that he wanted Burleigh Drive closed . Mrs . John B . Tasker , 140 Burleigh Drive , Town of Ithaca : Mrs , Tasker stated that Burleigh Drive has a lot of tra fic and it goes very fast . She said that she wanted to see Burleigh Drive slowed down and controlled . Mr . David J . Martin , 137 Burleigh Drive , Town of Ithaca : Mr . Martin supported what Mrs . Tasker said ; he is not concerned with the opening or closing of Sandra Place . He wants controls on Burleigh DYive . He said that he is not particularly interested in closing Burleigh Drive either . He stated traffic does come from Uptown Drive ® He did not think they go to the schools . He thought they may be going to the University or trying to get to Warren Road , Town of Ithaca Planning Board - 4 - April 23 , 1974 Mrs . Theodore Sturgis , 330 Winthrop Drive , Village of Cayuga Heights .& Mrs . Sturgis said that her house is on the corner of Winthrop • Drive and Sandra Place . She said that a great number of children walk on Winthrop and Sandra . She agreed with Mrs . Dykema that Winthrop Dr . cannot take any more traffic . She felt very strongly that the protec � tion of the children is the most important consideration . Mr . Merle Lalonde , 412 Winthrop Drive , Village of Cayuga Heights . He said that * a group was at a Planning Board meeting four years ago when there was a discussion of the closing of Sandra Place . What influenced the Planning Board then was that the Town of Ithaca had no control over Uptown Drive . They showed foresight in closing Sandra Place . He agreed that Winthrop Drive could not hold any more traffic . There is an extensively used playground at Northeast school , He stated that he sympathized with the people on Burleigh Drive , He did not think that opening Sandra Place is the answer to their problems . Mrs . Holcomb said that she would like to follow the suggestion that Mr . Payne made re traffic counters . She also felt that the Town of Ithaca should talk to the other municipalities - - Lansing , Cayuga Heights - - to try to develop a general solution to the Northeast road problems . There may be a better solution than the closing of Burleigh Drive . At the time that previous proposals were made , the actual developments were not there . She said that the Planning . Board will have another public meeting on this matter , She asked for the names of a person or persons that the Town could notify when a date is set for another public meeting , ( David Martin , 137 Burleigh Dr . , Norman Dykema , 5 Sandra Pl . ; Merle Lalonde , 412 Winthrop Dr . ; W . C . Norton , 131 Burleigh Dr . , Charles Burness , 129 Burleigh Dr , ) Mr . Francese discussed the installation of sidewalks . He said that he has brought up sidewalks at every Town Board meeting that he has attended . The Town Board says that they have to be a special benefit district . It was his opinion that there are always enough people in an area who don ' t have children that one cannot ever get enough people who want to have sidewalks . Mr . Francese thought that the Town Board has to be convinced that Town wide taxes should be used for sidewalks . Mrs . Holcomb stated that unfortunately it is a State Law that Towns must have a special benefit district to provide special services to selected portions of the Town . She pointed out that prior to this Law , the only way to obtain special privileges was to create a Village . Since the adoption of that Law , there has been practically no Villages formed in the State of New York , Mr . W . C . Norton , 131 Burleigh Drive , Town of Ithaca . Mr . Norton reminded the Planning Board that . part o the Sandra Place evelopment called for a special water district so that the people could have adequate water . The water has never been put in to loop the fines from Winthrop Drive to Burleigh Drive through Sandra Place . Water pressure in the Burleigh Drive area is a severe problem . The Sandra Place section of the loop should be completed . PUBLIC INFORMATION MEETING ON UP-DATING OF OFFICIAL TOWN HIGH MAP ® Mrs . Holcomb asked if all the people present would stay for a look at the official highway map . She pointed out that an Official Highway Map , once adopted , is graven in concrete , She said that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board m5 - April 23 , 1974 Town is presently in the process of up®dating the Townes Official Highway Map . The Planning Board would like input from the people of ® the Town relating to the last official highway map which was adopted in -1.9,68 . The Planning Board would like to receive suggestions for roads that the people think are needed , roads that should be removed or re- aligned . Professor D . Hywel White , 1456 Hanshaw Road , Town of Ithacan Prof . White presented a proposal for re ®aligning the Northeast segment of the proposed loop road . He proposed a re -alignment to Freese Road with two alternates from that to either Route 366 or Route 13 . ( See Map attached ) . Mr . Herbert Mahr pointed out that the County has its plans for highways , the Town has its , He asked if they could ever get together on the matter . Mr . Missirian stated that he has been working with Mrs . Holcomb and Mr . Kroohs . He described the circumferential road that the County I s working on . Mr . Mahr said that we have all been discussing a new road map . We talk of County roads , Town roads , State roads . Let us do more than just catalogue , We need a master plan a master plan for transporta® tion . How do we transport people of all kinds from place to place . We must economize , Mr . Mahr presented again an idea for a Master Plan which he had presented to the Planning Board on February 8 , 1972 . • ( See Planning Board Minutes of that date ) . Briefly , this involved a network of first class roads , second class roads , and third class roads . He suggested that in view of the difficulty in getting road changes through the DOT it will be necessary to fight for a master plan with the State Officials . The struggle should be made . He felt that once a master plan is on record the fight for implementation could come at a later date . It is the making of the Master Plan official that has to be fought for now . Mr . Francese suggested to the Board that in the new zoning ordinance they ought to rethink the set® back regulations . The set - backs that we have permitted on the major thoroughfares prohibit the future widenings of the roads that we cannot conceive of . Mr . Scannell felt that what Mr . Francese was saying is that Town Planning really is not adequate any more . Neither is County planning . Mr . Francese felt that the Town Planning Board should meet with the County Planning Office in order to see what they are planning for the same roads in a different context . Mr . Kroohs pointed out that the DOT traffic study is now four years overdue and it is to the point now where they have money in the Budget to update a study they have not even completed yet ! Mr . Missirian suggested , referring again to set =backs that 808 from the centre line on a secondary road would be minimum . He firmly suggested on primary roads having 1008 set =backs , Mr . Mahr formally suggested that the Town develop a road map Town of Ithaca Planning Board m6 - April 23 , 1974 that distinguishes three types of roads regardless of who owns them . (Map on file in Town Office # 423 . ) This should include roads that will • be developed in the future . Designate second class roads - speed limits of 30 or 35 m . p . h : First class only for high speed movement . ST . CATHERINE SUBDIVISION - ARTHUR " DUTCH " PRINCE . See page 1 of these Minutes . Mrs . Holcomb recalled the previous discussion on the Dutch Prince Subdivision . Since we now had a quorum she called for a vote on the Motion . The secretary re -read the Motion . Aye - Holcomb , Slack , Scannell , Baker , Lowe . Nay - None . The Motion was declared carried unanimously . Mrs . Holcomb informed the Planning Board that the Town Board has accepted Mr . Kroohs ° and her suggestion to rename the road in the St . Catherine subdivision . The East branch from Hanshaw Road to Christopher Lane is to be Blackstone Road . The West branch from Blackstone Road to Christopher Lane will be Siena Drive . The connectins road between Siena Drive and Blackstone is to be St . Catherine Lane , FLOOD PLAIN ZONE , Mrs . Holcomb and Mr . Kroohs had a discussion with the DOT last week . It was decided that the Flood Plain that the Planning Board has been talking about is not sufficient . Mrs . Holcomb purchased new USGS Maps ( updated to 1969 ) , and outlined the flood plain area as designated in a new study done by DEC for the County . Mr . Francese said that he did not agree with the immense size of the Flood Plain designated . He would agree with " flood prone " maybe . The Planning Board agreed with Mr . Francese and will look further into the matter as it affects the size of the Flood Plain we designate on the new Zoning Map , ADJOURNMENT The Meeting was adjourned by the Chair at 10 : 35 p . m . Respectfully submitted Nancy M . Fuller Secretary • j[ f• f , �.• x 1 - ..lrr-� , Ilk � m �t s• c►n, wa�J•. `�'r .-.�\ , -- !� 0. . & • . . . Ul Fj G�{,f - te� • w.• , _ y� •irr V' I 4 ' •j� �\ r � j ,_ ' •i + �' � � f ,. Y' ' :�...T � Ja• '1 M \t • 6� t �L; " '� I}�`�` a �.yy//�// .l. •l-_J�✓ �j • • . � • _^¢� �a\• ��' •! -1' •:!.•! tri L!•Y][i �i�t 1 I• . �.. 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