HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB Minutes 1972-12-12 TOWN OF ITH4CA PLANNING BOAP.D
Decenber 12 , 1072
A regulaLr .neetin of the
g Tom of . Ithaca . Planning , Board and a
Public Hearing were held on- Tuevday , December 12 ., 1972 , in the Town
Offices ' at 108 East Green Street , Ithaca , . New York , at " 7 : 30 p . n .
PUSENT : Chairnan Barbara Holconb - . San Slack Arnold Albrecht ,
Robert Scannell , • Maurice - Harris , Jack Lowe, Peter Francese ( Planning
Consultant ) David Cowan ( Zoning Officer) ; Reynolds Metz (Assistant
Zoning Officer) .
ABSENT ; Daniel Baker , Robert Christianson ,
ALSO PRESENT : Approxinately 25 interested citizens , Norbert
Schickel , Edward King , and nenbers of the . - press , radio .and TV .
Mrs . Holcooib opened the neetina at 7 : 30 p . c . and there was
considerable earl discussion of biscellaneous itens that she wished
the nenbers to be aware ofas follows :
PROPOSED ROADS .
Mrs . Holconb noted - that Supervisor Schwan had advised her of
sone real problems with proposed roads up on West Hill and also Mr .
Hywel White had pointed out . sowe suggestions about realignment of the
proposed loop road up . in the Northeast areal ; She suggested that
before the Board goes to "the expense of getting a new clap Printed in
connection with the new zoning ordinance , the proposed '. roads really
ought to be looked at with respect ,: to any changes that night ' seem
proper , and recoubend then to the Town. Board. It is a rather tricky
legal problem of removing proposed roads fron the .nap . There must be
a Public Hearin& by the Town Board to take it off the nap and then put
it back in a different wayi This rust be done separately fron the
Zoning Ordinance ,
SPEED LIMITS .
In the natter of ;. Seed Limit requests , Mrs . Holcomb was -h�a.pPy
to report that t:he .Board -has been very successful- ' in its last try .
The State has approved the 40 - n , p . h . speed - limit on the Snyder Hill
rLoad fron the Town Line -to ' the . intersection of Pine Tree Road . All of
the interior roads in Easter s► Heights - are to .be 30 n . p . h . Honness .,
Lane fron SlaterAlle Road to Pine Tree Road has been nade 40 m . p . h .
The only section which they did not approve which we requested is that
part of Pine Tree. Road . - fron the Snyder Hili Road intersection to Ellis
Hollow Road . They will not change it because they sayy there is
nothing there . This will go into effect as soon as the signs go up ,
They are supplied by the County . Mrs . "Holcomb was not sure who put up
the signs - the County or the Town . Mr . Cowan had a question about
the two intersections in Eastern Heights with Snyder Hill PZoad about
-the feasibility of putting up No Parking signs at the . sane tine the
s eed linit signs are put up . He noted that it is inpossible to plow
t ere as well as the nunber of cars all over the place . Mr. Slack
noted that the scocne thing happens at the lower part of the hill . It
was suggested ticketing the cars , but Mr. Cowan pointed out that
without ido Parking signs it is virtually inpossible for a policeman to
ricket cars . Mrs, . Holconb will look into this problen .
I�
Town of Ithaca Planning Board - 2- December 12 , 1972
REVENUE SHARING ,
i
Mrs . Holcomb wanted the members of the Planning Board to be
inforoed of the fact that there will be some revenue sharing money con-
ing to the Town . The Town Board would like some input from the
Plannincr Board as to what should be done with this money . Mrs .
Holcomb noted one request that she would like to make and that is a
new map case , but there is a problem of where to put it . Mr . Harris
suggested that ithe possibility of microfilm should be investigated .
This suggestion was duly noted,
ROADS .
Mr . Scannell wondered whose responsibility is that section of
the Caldwell Road near the Cornell Campus . Mr . Cowan said that is a
Town Road . That: part of the Arboretum Road and the intersection with
Route 392 is Cornell ' s responsibility . Mr . Barris wondered when the
Forest Home Bridge would be open and would it be open as a two-way
bridge until the other bridge is fixed . Mr . Cowan thought it was
supposed to open in December and he said it would be one-way if they
do not close the other bridge ,
It was noted also. that the Judd Falls Road from Mitchell Avenue
to Maple Avenue is breakin.g up very badly : Mrs . Holcomb stated that
that is a County road ,
NEW YORK STATE , EUCTRIG AM GAS
Mrs ; Holcomb wished the members of the Planning Board to note
that a tentative meeting with the New York State Electric and Gas Co .
has been . set up with the Town Board for January 6 , 1973 , at 5 : 00 p . m .
.7his will be a discussion of procedures and plans for the impleoenta-
tion of underground wiring . It is the general opinion of the Town
Board that it would be well for the Planning Board to be at this
meeting .
CODDINGTON ROAD SPEED LIMIT REMST ,
Mrs . Holcomb stated that the Town Board has accepted the
Resolution of the! Planning Board on the reduction of the Speed Limit
on the Coddington. Road from Juniper Drive intersection to the Troy
Road intersection from 55 m . p . h . to 40 m . p . h . The recommendation has
been forwarded to the Department of Transportation in Syracuse .
DP.EW SUBDIVISION,
Mrs . Holcomb brought the Planning Board . nembers up to date on
what is happening on the Drew Subdivision . It has not yet been
approved. On September 18 , 1972 , the Town Board accepted Drew Road
and Vera road (now known as Vera Circle ) . Approval was conditional
.on acceptance by the Town Attorney of the Deed . The Deed has not been
• received . As far as the Town is concerned they have never finished
accepting this road . Mrs . Holcomb said that she has talked with
Attorney Armand Adams and he understands the problem and all of these,
things will be worked out in about ten days . Mrs . Holcomb noted
another problem on this subdivision in connection with the Health
Department approval . She has talked with Mr . StevedHeroan . The
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Town of Ithaca Planning Board - 3 - December 12 , 1972
. Planning Board had thought that they could approve the subdivision
with the exception of those four lots tha ' have not had percolation
tests : However , that is not the case . Percolation is very difficult
because of the various . kinds of soils in that area . There is some
gravel here and there which causes great v4riati:on in soil percolation .-.
They want to use, the gravel field when available : This oight mean
shifting some of the lot - lines . Therefore , it would be a disservice
to Mr . Drew to approve the lots with the exception of four and then
have him . have to change lot lines .
ACCEPTANCE OF rtOADSIVI
Mr . Buyoucos and the Town Board have agreed that a new fora be
devised for the acceptance of raods . There will now be a letter of
transmittal froo the Developer to the Town Board . The Town will take
no road , nor even consider it , until the developer has identified every
easement that gees with that road . : This is very important because of
the underground wiring ; e'tct- j - that is cooling along now • Further , the
Town oust insist that all easements , be . hey N. Y . S . Gas aricl ;Electric ,
Telephone , sewer , or whatever , must; be on a subdivision plot :
SUGGESTION FROM ANDREW MEtwEE ;PU9 PtNCE81
Mrs : Holcomb stated that Town Board member Andrew McElwee had
suggested that the Zoning Ordinance specify that the finished side of
fences be on the neighbor ' s side and not on the owner ' s side . This
suggestion was duly noted .
PUBLIC HEAPING : SCHICKEL RE - ZONING ..
At 8 : 00 p . o . Chairman Holcomb called to order a Public Hearing
being held by the Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca to consider the
application of the Schickel Environmental Development Company for the
re zoning of the Pyle Tract off Honness Lane from R� 15 Residential to
Multiple Residence District . Mrs . Holcomb stated that this Public
Hearing has been properly published .andposted and that she had before
her the Affidavit: . of the Town Clerk to that effect . Mrs . Holcomb
requested that Mime Schickel code forward and make his presentation .
Mac . Schickel presented to the Board an Affidavit and Notice
of Mailing of the Public Hearing to the neighbors . Mr . Schickel
identified the property as that formerly called the Pyle Tract off
Honness Lane , not including the previously filed subdivision . Mr .
Schickel described the set -up of his proposed development . It is a
plan involving actual home ownership . . Each dwelling unit .is owned with
a party wall between the units . The dwelling owner also owns the land
under his home while the rest of the land in the development is owned
by a Hooeowner ' s Assoc , of which each owner is a mecaber and through
this association pays for the maintenance of the buildings and grounds .
This is a 19 - acre tract , the density if 10 dwellings per acre and the
• gross number of dwellings over a period of time will be 184 dwelling
units . Prior to ithis meeting the number of dwelling units was thought
to be 160 but since that time a detailed survey has been drawn and
there are 19 acres of land instead of 16 acres . The project , called
Eastwood Commons , will have many benefits to the community . It has
been carefully designed to fit in and enhance the existing community .
Each unit will have its own garage and entrance and a private garden .
Town of Ithaca Planning ' Board - 4- December 12 , 1972
• Each building will contain four dwelling units , totalling 48 buildings
in the project . The roof lines of each individual unit will be
alternated so each hone will have as ouch of a view as possible and
there will not be a repetitive , sterile quality to the buildings . The
dwellings will have two bedr000s and there will be approximately . 22
children of school age per unit . There are 3 types of dwellings in
each fourplex : a one - level dwelling , two 2- story town house dwellings
and one 1 - level dwelling above the garage . In three of the ' unii_ s you
can , go directly froo the garage into your house . The vain entry will
be frog Honness Lane on an approximately level plane and then the road
loops to the right and left . There will be a secondary entry off
Hartwick Place . There will be several outdoor spaces throughout the
development ;
A question was asked of Mri Schickel as to where the old Flail -
road right of wCay is 4 He pointed it out on the raap .
Mr , Edward King , Slaterville road , stated that he could not see
any , large : areas or coonons as indicated . Mr Schickel stated that
there is about 200 feet in the niddle and also back in one corner :
Mr . King asked about the dimensions of the piddle area . He was told
about 250 ' by 1501 . Mr . Schickel stated that this area is not a Uig
park , it is sioply larger than sone of the others . There is a lot of
variety in texture .
.is . Mr . Bradt asked if the Coggshall property is on the left . It
Mr . Jones of Honness Lane asked how navy cars does thisroject
,involve . Mr . Schickel stated that each unit has a garage and they
providing 1 . 5 parking spaces per unit .
Mr . Chase of Honness Lane , noted that if it were 1 . 5 cars per
dwelling and not per building , it would near 276 parking spaces . Mr .
Schickel said that is correct .
. Mr . Willia.n Stini of 113 Honness Lane was concerned with the
entrance and egress being two roads frog Honness Lane . He was not
sure that Mr . Schickel actually owned that land . Mr . Schickel stated
that he has an option of both entrances . Mrs . Holcobb noted that this
would be an extension of the road that was planned when Mr . Pyle was
considering developing this land . Mr . Stini noted that everything
does into Honness Lane . He further asked Mr . Schickel what his
constituency would be in this developoent . Mr . Schickel stated that
since these are two- bedroom dwellin s that would be an indication right
there . In general , Mr . Schickel fe t that the owners would be single
people , married People with no children and narried people with shall
families . Mr . Stini raised the question of what would happen in case
of fire . What would be the service access ? Mr . Schickel said that it
would come frog College Avenue over to the two entrances . Mr . Stini
noted that this could be a very dangerous situation should these roads
be blocked . It is essentially a cul - de - sac with United access and
high density .
Mrs . Mary Jones wished to add another hazard to the fire hazard .
The children hazard . There are 30 children on that short street
(Honness Lane ) . How are they going to get to school? Mr . Schickel
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Town of Ithaca Planning Board - 5 - Decenber 12 , 1972
said that it is possible to walk to Belle Shernan school through the
right of way . Mr . Eisner wondered what is the access to Belle Sherman
school without walking on the road . Mrs . Holconb stated that there
are two rights -, of-way in the Town and in the City . This easenent is
shown on the City nap and the Town nap . The proposal is that this . be
nade a walkway . Mr . Eisner asked if the Planning Board is ' aware of
the problen in the Northeast with regard to walkways . Mrs . Holconb
said they are . Mr . Eisner wondered what happened to the proposed road
through to Woodcrest and why is that proposed road not shown on this
plan . Mr . Schickel stated that he did not want to build another access
on the northeast end of the project because he feared the project would
become a thoroughfare to Woodcrest and surrounding areas . He felt it
was simply not good design and would be a , detrinent to his development .
Residential streets
street , should not go - places . . , Honness Lane is a public
Mr . Dick Archibald of 114 Honness Lane stated thathis lot
borders directly, on this access road into the developnent . It was
zoned R- 15 and that is one of the reasons he bought the land so as to
have the protection of that kind of zoning label . . He said that be
he figured there: would be developnent of about 50 hones and naybe 100
cars according :o R- 15 zoning . Now it is 184 units and over 300 cars ,
an alarning increase in the density of this neighborhood . He stated
that he is very nuch opposed .
; Mrs & Holconb wishedl to nake a Seineral statenent about this
oafteri It must be clearly understood by everybody in the Town before
we adopt the net3 zoning ordinance that tinder the present zoning ord"
inance in R- 15 areas , and indeed , in the proposed zoning ordinance ; it
is permitted by -the special act of amending the Zoning Ordinance to ,
re - zone to R- 10 or multiple . Multiple residence is a�pernitte' d use .
It is a floating zone . It has been so for almost 20 years . We do not
set each place as being R- 10 . When certain criteria have been net
each developnent is looked at on its nerits . Mobile home parks wih
also be allowed . We have tried it the other way , i . e . , saying such
,and such an area will be such and such a zone and everybody appears
sand says that is fine to have say a nobile hone park but not in ny
part of town .
Mr . Dick Archibald stated that is was his opinion that having
a floating zone is as good as having no zoning at all .
Mr . Francese noted that certain criteria have been established
and will be set down rather strongly in the new Zoning Ordinance .
It is fallacious to say that any parcel in the Town can be rezoned .
Any parcel that meets certain criteria can be re - zoned . There are a
number of things that are considered by the Planning Board in the
acceptance or rejection of nultiple or nobile hone parks . Just because
somebody presents a plan does not mean that he can go ahead , nor does
it necessarily nein that the Planning Board will accept the number of
units proposed .
® Mr . Robert Chase of Honness Lane asked about the criteria
and
nerits that had been mentioned as the basis for decision- making.. He
asked Just what they are -y� traffic , circulation , fire protection ,
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Town of Ithaca Planning Board - 6 - December 12 , 1972
Mrs . Holcomb stayed that the criteria are topography of the
• land , accessaba. lity t:o Primary highways ( State roads ) availability of
water and sewer: , the general density of the entire neighborhood (which
will be in the new ordinance ) . In the new ordinance . also percentages
will be spelled, out . Mr : Chase Asked if this set of ; criteria night
include attention to the preservation of green belts , Mr . Francese
stated absolutely yes , Mrs . Holcomb stated further that the present
ordinance allows 18 units per acre in multiple . This development is
10 units per acre which is well under the present ordinance .
Mr . Stini noted that the present ordinance is inadequate and it
is obvious that the Planning Board is working on it . He stated that
the serious issue at this point is whether the Board is going to allow
a deviation now and allow this developoent to happen and have it not
fit into the new ordinance .
Both Mrs ;, IiolcoQb and Mri Slack stated that this project is
being considered in the light of the proposed ordinance as far as is
legally possible . Mr . Stini inferred that should this project be
built there will be a very definite possibility of litigation upon the
Town .
Mrs . Holcomb stated that the Town is presently legally bound to
its existing ordinances Mr : Stlni continued and said that the Board is
not legally b6und to make a decision now . He further stated that while
mentioning criteria ; Mrs : Holcomb made no reference to access or
drainage . He thought that all of these criteria have to be attended to
in this case .
Mr . Francese stated that the Planning Board is legally bound to
give Mr . Schickel an answer . They cannot say to him wain six months ,
or a year or so , until we have the new ordinance ready . Mri Stari was
of the opinion that the Board could wait a little while or even better ;
as he said , reject this plan for the moment and then take it0up again .
Mrs . Holcomb stated that the Planning Board is required to give an
answer to a developer within 60 days of his official presentation ;
It is impossible to say no to a developer on the basis of criteria
that are not in t:he present ordinance . Further , Mrs . Holcomb wished
to inform the public that during many lengthy discussions with Mr .
Schickel both personally and at meetings with the Planning Board , Mr .
Schickel has been told about the new zoning ordinance . Mr . Schickel
has made every effort to meet the criteria that are intended to be
included in the new ordinance and that is ouch farther than he is
required to go . There are no criteria in the " present ordinance that
have not been met with this plan,
Mr . Stini reiterated his concern. for the drainage problem . Mrs ;
Holcomb stated that the Planning Board is well aware of the drainage
problems in this site and indeed , throughout the Town of Ithaca .
Mr . Eisner had a question about roads . He did not see a
• through road through the development to Woodcrest as a problem . He
referred to the road through Cornell Quarters where there are several
bumps in the road to slow dmm the traffic . Mr . Francese stated that
bumps in the road are totally illegal except on private roads such as
those owned by the: University . Mr . Schickel stated in considering his
development he is convinced that he has arrived at the most proper
Town. of Ithaca Planning Board - 7. Decenber 12 , 1972
• design , including Honness Lane . He did not thin, that linking up the
cul - de- sacs is good design .
Mr . Edward Ring , Slaterville Foad ; adjacent to this development ,
noted that Mr . Francese had said that Honness Lane is a vain highway
connecting to Slaterville. Road . It was Mr . Ring ' s understanding that
there was a possibility of going through the Coggshall property going
westerly towards, Slaterville Road . Further , Mr . Ring stated that in
mentioning criteria that ought to be applied in considering this kind
of development , it cones to his oind that professional people ought to
see this proposal in term6 . of traffic , drainage , etc . - He referred to
the 34 acres owned by Coggshall and up to Pine Tree F.oad . - There is an
environmental question here about the ravages of water . One cannot
look at this project as separate fron all these other lands . This area
could undergo ars intensive study with other developbents in mind . As
for drainage , Mr . King suggested strongly that it should be a closed
storm sewer sy6tem . Ditches simply do not work . There is no culvert
across Slaterville Roadj Iie definitely felt that the Planning Board
needed independent expertise to aid them in these matters . Further ,
he felt that it : ought to be incumbent on any developer to stand the
cost of independent study on what they think ought to be approved and
disapproved as to density and drainage : ; He did not think that the
Planning Board should be asked to make these kinds of decisions without. ,
expert help .
Mrs . Carol n Chester had a question about the proposal for a
• Country Road that would cut across the corner of this development . Mr .
Francese stated that he did not think that this proposal is very good
and probably would not come to fruition since it involves a $620002000
bridge . There was also reference to a proposed Town road which is near
the Cornell pig barns . Mr . Francese said that they are two entirely
different kinds of proposals and two entirely different hinds of roads .
The Town road is not designed as a major highway , it is to alleviate
congestion . ,
Mrs . Holcoob stated that the County does not have the sane
power that $ Town does as far as zoning and planning goes . The County
"road is a possibility . It is an extremely long range possibility .
It is an idea . There is already talk on the County level that it is
too close in , it should be farther out and really circle the Town .
The Town road was legally put there as a proposal . The County road
has no legal status at all .
Mr . Stini stated that his point is the very reasons one allows
variances to an existing ordinance . He said that the people have shown_ ;
that the criteria have not been net . The taxes received could be an
important criteria . He referred to density . He asked , is there a
particularly good reason for making a variance with this area at this .
time . Variances are not nade loosely when one deviates from Pt.- 15 .
Mrs . Holcon'b stated number 1 that this is not a variance , it is
an amendment to the zoning ordinance . There is quite a difference .
This is an amendment which is allowed and follows the intent of the
ordinance which permits a variety of structures in any area . As for
intent , there is no incompatibility between residential areas of one
type and another . Mr . Stini wanted to know what the zones are . Mrs .
Holcomb said , Ro 9 , R 15 , P.- 30 , Agricultural , Connercial , Industrial
Town of Ithaca Planning Board December 12 , 1972
both light and :heavy , and Multiple . Multiple is a permitted use in
the Town . Mr . Stini contended that there is a difference between
being permitted and being necessary .
Mr :. Albert Hoeffer , Jr . , asked what criteria have not been net .
Mrs . Holcomb stated that there are no criteria in the present ordinance
that have not been net .
Mr . Stini asked what expert opinion does the Planning Board
have . Mrs . Holcomb stated the opinions of the planning board members ,
the Town planner. , and the Town attorney .
Mr . King noted that the planning board is amending the existing
ordinance under the proper procedures . Under multiple there would be
22500 sq . ft . of land required which means that there could be 331 units
in there legally . However , Mr . King contended that the planning board
oust not permit any more than one dwelling unit per 4 , 500 sq . ft . , and
then the area would not be multiple : Mrs . Holcomb Mated that it would
be multiple . Further , she stated that in this kind of re - zoningi the
plan . shall be presented and the plan is that plan which must be built .
Should Mr . Schickel sell his land then the new owner is tied to that
plan . , Mr . King suggested that the requirement should be added that
when land is cold it reverts back to P.- 15 . Mrs . Holcomb stated that
this cannot be done without the appropriate legal stepsl
Mr . Eisner asked when the notice of this public hearing was
® published . He was told December 7 1972 in The Ithaca . Journal . . He
asked if drainage is a part of this plan. He was told that it will be
a part of the plan . Mrs . Holcomb recalled the Beacon Hills proposal
wherein a particular phrase was used as follows : No final approval
shall be given until an acceptable drainage plan has been received by
the Planning Boa:cd ,
Mrs . Holcomb outlined the procedure in this natter . . IF we
should say that we accept this plan with these modifications we
recommend to the Town Board that the re zoning be duly made for this
plan when it neets these conditions . The Town Board dust set a
Public Hearing for this final re- zoning . The Planning Board cannot
re - zone . The Town Board can then make any changes . Then Mr . Schickel
must cone back to the Planning Board for final approval . Final
approvr+ l cannot be given until such and such is done for instance
detailed drainage: and site plans which we will not accept unless they
follow specific conditions . We do it this way because it is not fair
to the developer to pay the expenses of malting such detailed plans
unless he knows that we at least accept the concept of the plan .
There are essentially three more public hearings to be attended .
Mr . Eisner noted that one of the criteria mentioned is overall
density of such developments within any neighborhood . He asked if
this is the best location iri the neighborhood for this development .
How many more are we going to have in this area ? There is already
• another one in the works for East Ithaca - Groff Assoc . Mr . Eisner
thought that to establish a percentage for any neighborhood is a good
idea .
Mr . Stini said that there was another road shown as an access
on the original plan. That road has been removed . Mr . Schickel
Town of Ithaca Planning Board 0109010 December 12 , 1972
• stated that his development has never shown a road going out on to
Woodcrest . There has been no other plan .
Mr . King asked the Board if there has been any proposal to
thea for the developoent of the 34 acres of CoSSshall land . What
about the Cornell land? The development of this whole triannele
should be evaluated . Perhaps one per 6 , 000 sq . ft .
MSAs . May stated that she could understand Mr . Schickel ' s
reasons for not wanting a through road . At the intersection of
Honness Lane and Slaterville Road the grade is terrible . She thought
that the Board really should have more concern about the traffic .
Mr . Stin3l. stated that with 2-bedroom apartments at the most the
assumption is scull families which is not a necessary assuoption since
there could be two or three children . If that should happen there is
a play area of only 250 ' by 1501 , plus a spall area up in the Woodcrest
area . There could be 360 children and just what has been provided for
these children . What are the school provisions for them.
Mr . Slack wondered who has provided play area for those people
who have built on Honness Lane and Slaterville Road . The kids play
in their own backyard . Mr . Schickel thought that his development had
a lot of meaningful space .
• The speed at which the traffic , goes on Honness Lane was men-
tioned and Macs , Holcomb stated that the State has just approved
reducing the speed linit on Honness Lane to 40 m . p ; h Mr : Francese
also noted that the Revenue Sharing coney can be used to employ a
town constable . , Mr . King said that he would rather see it used for
engineering studies . Mrs . Holcomb stated that the $ 66 , 000 incone
fron revenue shaking is for 1972 and there will be like amount coming
.in soon for 1973 „
.>
,�t Mr . Eisner- stated that he did not understand the right of way
question . It wa .cI stated that it goes from the edge of the property
through to the City . Mr . Eisner noted that the fourplex multiple
precludes the use of this right of way and should the easement that is
on the nap be left open .
. Mr . Bletchley asked who puts in the sidewalks over to the school ?
Mr . Bradt asked about the possibility of utilizing that Rail -
road right of way . He was told that Cornell owns it and has cooplete
control of this right of way .
Mrs . Margaret Archibald asked Mr . Schickel what he would do if
these unite do not all sell . He stated that all the units will not be
built at once . They will build a few at a time . This is a " for sale "
proposition . He is not going to build 50 units at once . This is not
a rental project . He did not wish to nislead since if for sone reason
there should be one or two or three units left unsold they night con-
sider renting but he definitely does not want • to .
Mr . Archibald asked about the roads in the centre of the pro-
ject . The dedicated road will be a Town road and the inner roads will
Qeet Town specifications .
Town of Ithaca Planning Board - 10 " December 12 , 1972
• Mr . Stini asked if Mr . Schickel anticipated a restrictive
covenant on the buyers . Mr . Schickel stated that the document is very
thick . But essentially whatever one can do in one ' s own home , one can
do in these units . . He was asked about boarders . It was stated that
three Linrelated individuals is the maximum in any unit . As for cost ,
Mr . Schickel was reluctant to state an exact selling price , but he
was hoping to be under $ 30 , 300 .
Mr . Kind; asked what are the powers and regulations of the Home-
owner ' s Assoc . Mrs : Holcomb referred to the Covenant in the August
1st6% 1972 , special meeting of the Planning Board re Deacon Hills .
The Covenant for the Schickel proposal will be similar . " It is under
stood that all open space (with the exception of the loop road as shown
on the site plan which will become a town road) will . be owned , main-
tained , and have its use controlled by a homeowners ' association made
up of all residents of the Beacon Hills subdivision , or another type
of management organization to be specified by the developer . It would
be further assumed that if such an organization fails to adequately
maintain the area , the Town shall reserve the right to levy a special
use district tax on the residents ? f the Beacon Hills development for
the maintenance of this area : " Mr + Schickel added that the Homeowners '
Assoc , has the power to enforce its charges .
Mr . King pointed out that the Attorney General has said
recently that he has had a lot of trouble with homeowners ' associations
He - was of the opinion that the Town should have a claim on the land .
Mr : Schickel said that the Town does through its covenant .
Mr . Schickel was asked why he went from the condominium idea to
this proposal . He said there were many reasons . He was asked if he
did indeed have a covenant prepared . Mr . Schickel said that they
have a draft . It was stated that it was prepared by a law professor
at Cornell and he has been in touch with the Attorney General .
Mr . Chase: said that he did not see any space on the plan for
maintenance facilities . He suggested that 2% or 3% of the land should
be allocated for a shop .
Mr . Eisner asked if each building were a house would the plan
conform with Rv 15 . Mr . Francese said yes . Mr . Francese stated also
that there could be duplexes at 7 , 500 sq . ft . per unit . Almost twice
the density .
Mr . Stini asked if it would be possible for Mr . Schickel to
sell a number of these dwellings to any one individual . Mr . Schickel_
said he could not answer that really , but it is his intention to
handle this ,just the same as one would do for an individual home . .. As
a policy , they do not wish to sell to someone who will not be a resi-
dent . They are in the business to produce a fine development . They
really think the people will be very proud of it .
Mrs . Holcomb asked Mr . Schickel to describe the units again as
they are contemplated . He did so .
Mrs . Chase: stated that there were going to be multiple units
whether the neighborhood character wants individual homes or not . She
asked are we going to experiment with all the open land in the Town
Town of Ithaca Planning Board - 11 December 12i 1972
with this modern concept of cluster dwellings . She was not sure this
is the way the Town should head ' Mr . Schickel stated that in the final
• analysis , quality could not - . be legislated , but the desire for quality
oust exist . He has tried to work with the Planning Board and with the
type of neighboishood here . Anything they can do to make this project
.better , they will do . They want to work together with the people .
Mr . Albert Hoofer spoke at length in favor of the proposed
project . He was, asked by Mr . Edward King if he were a Public Relations
man for Mr . Schickel - he is not .
Mr . Schickel was asked if his motivation for this project was
one of profit - it is .
It was stated from the floor that no one present. really ques -
tioned the motives of Mr . - . Schickel or his desire . for quality , it is
the density that is the question .
It was asked if water is currently available for this project .
It was noted that there is water for the first stage . Mrs . Holcomb
stated that Mr . Schickel is under the sane restrictions as anyone in
the Town of Ithaca . There were 400 units available for the year .
Mrs . Livesay , who arrived very late , spoke about the fact that
184 families will be coming down Honness Lane on to the blind corner
at Slaterville Road . She was also concerned about the grade on Hanford
Place
• Mr . Eisner was still referring to the through road possibility
and stated that ; it seemed to . him that if there were stop signs withi
the development -then people, will not comethrough ,,.- It . Mrs . Livesay
stated that it was eritirelly selfish to disallow through traffic .
Mrs . Holcomb made a general coament . One of the reasons that
the Town of Ithaca is in difficulty about traffic passing all houses
is that unfortunately we were not well planned in the beginning .
There has been strip development along roads , Mrs . Livesay stated
that however unhandy this should be , there has to be a cut Through .
The question was asked if the name of the development could
be related to one: . of the roads in it to cut down on confusion with
Eastwood Avenue . Mr . S"chickel stated that he is really committed to
Eastwood Commons „
Pers . Livesay asked if there was not earlier a discussion of a
road through to Mitchell Street . Mrs . Holcomb said no .
Mr . Eisner said that he would suggest hooking up to a by- pass
or alternative roads , Mr . Francese said that he would suggest a
right of way beirig left in there to hook up to this .
Mrs . Carol. Fay asked the planning board why they pressure for
. this kind of devel000ent over individual . Mrs . Holcomb said that it
was not pressure . For instance Beacon Hills is looked upon with
favor as a mix *
it was noted that there are 40 units of water available for the
Town of Ithaca Planning -Board - 12 - December 12 , 1972
first phase . Apparently Mr . Schickel is planning 40 units in phase
• 1 ,
Mrs . Holcomb closed the Public Hearing at 10 : 15 p . m .
There followed a brief discussion by the Planning Board of
questions still left unanswered .
It was announced that the Planning Board will continue the
discussion of Eastwood Commons at its next meeting on January 2 , 1973 .
MOPOSED ROADS IN THE TOWN,
Mrs . Holcomb stated that the other thing that shw has on the
Agenda is the discission of proposed roads in the Town . She stated
that she has received one concrete suggestion from Mr . Hywel White
with reference to the proposed Northeast extension . It was suggested
that a section of the Northeast extension be curved to the right to
take advantage of -an existing road , avoid a forested area and then
intersect with :Freese Road and connect with Harishaw road . Or , there
could then be cooperation with the Town of Dryden to continue it to
connect to Route 13 .
Also on [Jest Hili , the Hector , Street by- pas where it is presen-
tly proposed to intersect with Elm Street , cones across two rather
steep gorges . It has been suggested tolcurve it around and avoid the
entire complex of stream and gorge . Mr : Slack noted that the whole
• road could be brought a little Northeast . Mr . Francese stated that
Cornell also favors any Northeast extension curving to the left and
stopping at Warren Road and forget the rest . This would provide "A"
lot and " B " lot connection . He stated further that the development
of this proposed loop road is very definitely tied into the University
Planning : Mr . Eisner wondered where the plans went that the University
was looking at . Mr ; Francese said that the University is still looking
at them .
Mr . Francese talked about his meeting with Vice - President
Mackesey and it is his feeling that the University is totally uncon-
cerned with this proposal from Ellis Hollow Road to the Warren Road .
The University has a very definite plan in mind .
Mr . Eisner- suggested bringing the road to the West and coming
right across the wooded edge of the sheep barns , west of the water
tower and west of Eastern Heights , Mr . Francese stated that this is
the NCNell Plan .
Mrs . Holcomb stated that the discussion of roads will stop
here and she will discuss this with the County Planner further . There
was a suggestion or two however , with Mrs . Livesay stating that the
planning board must keep in mind the existing development on Warren
Road , particularly the two existing schools .
Mrs . Holcomb officially adjourned the meeting at 10 : 45 p : m .
EXECUTIVE SESSION„
Mr . Slack asked what actual input that means anything does the
Town of Ithaca Planning Board - 13 - December 12 , 1972
Planning Board have . Mrs . Holcomb thought that the Town will listen
• to anything we have to say . Mr . Slack said if we can influence the
Town Board what: can the Town Board do to influence the County Planning
Board , Mrs . Holcoob said they can through our County :P.epresentatives .
Mr . Slack said that it seems a lot of time has gone by and no concrete
proposals have ever taken fruition .
Mr . Scannell stated that the University has five alternate
plans and they cannot decide . He also stated that he wished to repeat
his timemworn plea one more time - the Town needs a full time planner
and a full tine engineer . Mr . Slack said that he would rather see the
Planning Board approving planning and not just stamping plans .
Mrs . Hollcoob now referred to the money received from revenue
sharing ,, The money for the first part of 1972 has been deposited in
the bank in the amount of $ 332000 . There will be another like check
cooing in early in January for the second part of 1972 . And until
1977 we will be receiving approximately $ 66 , 000 per year . Possible
places for the use of this money were discussed . Part town . Four of
the categories do not apply to us because they are , the province of
the County . It must be noted that we cannot use the money in the
programs in which there are matching federal fundi stich as buying
Coy Glen or Lick Brook . Mr . Scannell wondered if funds can be shifted .
For instance , to the highway engineer and then free money for park
acquisition . It: was not clear if this would be legal
Mrs . Holcomb wished the board oembers to note in the back of
their minds that: this money is . to be used for tax stabilization and
not for tax reduction . If we reduce taxes cur share next year is
less . And further , Supervisor Schwan feels that the money would be
well used in a one shot operation such as the building of a road .
As a final note , Mrs . Holcomb informed the members of the
planning board that she had talked with Stuart Stein of the Cornell
Urban Planning Dept . , about what percentage of planning students at
Cornell have had training in engineering . The answer was 10% or 15% .
They tend to get less and less . The pattern is changing and the stu-
dents tend to go through the social sciences before entering Planning .
Mrs . Holcomb also talked .to Arne Jones bout working with the City in
sharing a planner . There could be conflicts with the City so perhaps
a better plan would be a Town and County sharing . Then there are
problems with civil service , etc . However , there is one good possi-
bility in the wind . There is a graduate student at Cornell with a
B . A . in Engineering , now working on a degree in planning . He has
been very highly recommended . He might be interested in a part time
job . Mrs . Holcomb stated that she thinks we need something right now .
Mr . Schwan has suggested that an interview be set up immediately . It
was agreed by the members of the Board that Mrs . Holcomb should
interview this young man , Ken Kroohs , and decide .
The meeting was adjourned at 11 : 30 p . m .
® Respectfully submitted ,
Nancy M. Fuller , Secretary .
• AFFIDAVIT OF POSTIN
TOWN CLERK ' S OFFICE
ITHACA , N . Y .
I , Edward L . Bergen , being
duly sworn say that I am the Town Clerk of the Town of
Ithaca , Tompkins County , New York , that the following notice
has been duly posted on the sign board of the Town Clerk of
the Town of Ithaca and that the notice has been duly published
in the local newspaper : ( The Ithaca Journal ) Notice of Public
Hearing for -the purpose of considering the application of the
Schickel Environmental Development Company for the re - zoning of the
Pyle tract off Honness Lane from R - 15 Residential to Multiple
Residence District .
Location of sign board used for posting : Entrance to Town Offices
at 108 East Green Street , Ithaca , New York
Date of Posting : December 75 1972
Date of Publication December 75 1972
xx Edward L . Bergen
Town Clerk
Town of Ithaca
State of New York
County of Tompkins ss
Town of Ithaca
Sworn to before me this 12th __. day of December
19 72 �-� _•
-�/ NOTARY
q(� 'y:
Otary Public, State o! New •.oxlt
No. 55.66664 "
Qualified in Tompkins C ty
Term Expires Mtrch 3 197 !
,. ._ ._.—•—til\'; �: (i fT}iSCA
: .r 3 *VtIGLiC :;EnRI�i,
.. ' the Chan'i�:an of tilt• Pias^ing
GIVEN that a
a :ec will i..: kctd b? tilt Planning
it :i:c Town of Ithaca on. the 11th dap of
i,) tilt To•a'n Office, .
k Ca3 G.c n Sintet, Ithaca, :yew Yorl:, for the
f;ry;,z of conslticrinv, the application of tilt
S;:d,':d L'nv;rcntrantai De• dopment Company
tar the re-zoning of the Pyle tract ofi IRmmees
L'.no tram ,i-15., Rcsklential to ttlti.
Res;dcr.;r: District. .
F.dwart! L. [ierpen
'fG=.. Clerk
Town of lthaca
pui:psh, December 7. 1972 .
;
I
I
•
STATE OF NEW YORK
ss .
COUNTY OF TOMPKINS
Martha Porter , being duly sworn , deposes and says
that on the 30th day of November , 1972 , she mailed a
copy of the attached notice to the names on the attached
list , by depositing it in an envelope addressed to each of
them , prepaid postage , in the United States Post Office
at Ithaca , New York , at the address indicated on the list .
/J�lr e4
Sworn to before me on the
-' - day of N49 1 , 1972 .
JA - jES H. McCARTHY
I otary Public, State of New York
No. 55 -2602025
Qualified in Tompkins County
Term Expires March 30, 197
NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING
A Public Hearing has been set by the Planning Board of
the Town of Ithaca for 8 : 00 p . m . on Tuesday , December
12 , at the Town Offices , 108 East Green Street . .
The purpose of the hearing is to consider the application
of the Schickel Environmental Development Company for
the re - zoning of the Pyle tract off Honnes s Lane from
R - 15 Residential to Multiple Residence District .
41
1 ,
On November 30 , 1972 the Schickel Environmental Development
• Co . sent notices of the public hearing of the Planning Board of
the Town of Ithaca , to be held December 12 , 1972 , to the fol -
lowing people .
Mr . and Mrs . Herbert Deinert
130 Honness Lane
Mr . and Mrs . Nelson Stillwell
128 Honness Lane
Mr . and Mrs . William R. Sears
126 Honness Lane
Mr . and Mrs . Robert M . Chase
105 Honness Lane
Mrs . Eleanor S . Foster
121 Honness Lane
Mrs . Lydia Woikow
120 Honness Lane
• Mr . and. Mrs . William Stini
118 Honne s s Lane
Minnie L . Orcutt
P . O . Box 336
J
Mr . Richard K . Blatchley
131 Honness Lane
Mr . Ralph L . Owen
8 Sunset Terrace
Berkeley , Calif . 94707
Mr . and Mrs . Montgomery May
1360 Slaterville Rd .
Mr . and Mrs . Edward King
1356 Slaterville Rd .
Mr . and .Mrs . Burt Garatt
1354 Slaterville Rd .
Mr . and Mrs . Donald Paterson
1350 Slaterville Rd .
Mr . and Mrs . Fred Wilcox
1346 Slaterville Rd .
- G -
Mr . and Mrs . Clarence G . Bradi
• 1342 Slaterville Rd .
Mr , Michael G . Kammen
1326 E , State St ,
Mr . and Mrs . Robert C . Fay
318 Eastwood Ave ,
Mr , A „ L . Coggshall
1336 Slaterville Rd ,
Mr . • and Mrs , William Coggshall
323 Eastwood Ave ,
Mr . Archie Robertson
Honne s s Lane
Mr , and Mrs . Richard Archibald
114 Honne s s Lane
Mr , and Mrs , Peter Wyllie
124 Horne s s Lane
• Mr . Enos Pyle
Savings Bank Building
Mayor Edward J . Conley
City Hall
Mr . Jonathan Meigs
City Planner
City Hall
Mr . Thomas W . Mackesey
Cornell University
Mr , John Liguori
Tomp . Cty . Planning Dept .
Tomp . Cty . Court House
Mr . Peter Francese
P . O . Boy. 610