Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB Minutes 1972-11-06 TOW14 OF ITHACA PlAN14ING BOARD November 6 , 1972 A working meeting of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board was held on Monday , November 6 , 1972 , in the Town Offices at 108 East Green Street , Ithaca , New York , at 7 : 30 p . m . PRESENT : Chairman Barbara Holcomb , Sam Slack , Daniel Baker , Arnold Albrecht Maurice Harris Robert Scannell Peter Francese ( Planning Consultant) , ' ' DISCUSSION OF PROPOSED ZONING OP.DINANCE . Mr . Francese led the discussion and passed out a copy of the Summary of the proposed Zoning Ordinance for perusal page by page by the members of the Planning Board , The Town of Ithaca will be zoned into five different types of districts , as . fol. lowsee Residence (R) Business (B ) , Industrial ( I) , Agricultural (A) and Public ( P) .. The Residence districts (R) will be sub ® categorized as R- 1 , R- 1 - C2 R- 2 and R 3 , Mr . Francese said that the Rl1 C sub - category is not a separate district but a designation of Pool . It is not really another zone because it does not require : Town Board approval . Mrsa .Holcomb ques_tian - ed the designation of four units per acre under R' l - C , She had thought it had been decided that it would be 3 . 5 pet acre : Mr . Francese thought that it had definitely been decided at 4 but after discussion and many calculations being made , it was decided that 3 . 5 per acre was correct . It was decided to add the word gross before acre . ASIDE - PERSONNEL PR03LE1qS . Mrs ; Holcorob wished to speak at this point about the fact that Mr . Daniel Baker ' is term on the Planning Board expires on December 312 1972 . Chairman Holcomb asked Mr . Baker if he were in a position to crwt ; : another term of office . Mr . Baker said that he would be happy to c �"Q,nue on as a member of the Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca . Additionally , Mrs . Holcomb said that Mr . Fred Scott had called evening and stated that he feels that he really ought to :.- om the Planning Board because of continuing conflicts in meetings; . He is , in fact , tendering his resignation . The - ''� ' . . oard needs to find someone to fill Mr . Scott ' s term . 7 .' tz; o� ested that Mr . Edward IUn attorney , Mrs . & , y , might be able to She also suggested that Mr . Jack Lowe might be able at return to the Planning Board . Another possibility that »'_ J.- A,Y� J. owed is Mr . Bill Schmidt . It was agreed that an attorney '4 - > : at help to the Planning Board , but if Mr . King is unable Mrs . Holcomb will ask Mr . Lowe and then Mr . Schmidt . Town of Ithaca Planning Board - 2w November 6 , 1972 • STATUS OF RE UESTS FOR SPEED LIMITS . Mrs . Holcomb reported that as of this point in time in East Ithaca , with the exception of the stretch between Ellis Hollow Road and Pine Tree ]load , all of the requests that have been submitted for speed reductions have been approved by the Department of Transporta " tion in Syracu;ye and forwarded .to Albany for final approval . Mr . Slack said to keep pushing on the Ellis Hollow Road one . DISCUSSION OF 1,TtOPOSED ZONING ORDINANCE . With reference to the R- 2 category on Page 3 of the proposed zoning ordinance summary , Mrs . Holcomb had a proposal . Mrs . IIolc: omb stated that she . learned many things on her trip to the New York State Planning Federation meeting , In Yorktown and other places also , they are basing unit density in multiple residence zones on the number of bedrooms per apartment . There can be greater density if you have studio apartments than say a two or three bedroom apart - ment . In order to do something about density and also to keep the amount of open space as large as possible , they have a sliding scale . Mrs . Holcomb asked how many is it per gross acre when you say one unit per 3 , 600 sq , ft . ? Mr . Francese said that it was 12 , 1 it used to be . 13 under the old - ordinance . Mr . Francese said that he did not see it as a -problem now and he was in favor of keeping the • ordinance sample . Mr . Scannell felt that it was the number of students generated that can be a problem and not really the number of units . Mr . Fran,cese suggested saying 12 units per gross acre for R4MP2 . Mrs .' Holcomb astced' 'Mr . Francese if the ordinance says gross acres , does it always mean witch goads and parking etc , ? Are you saying roughly 1 , 000 sq . ft . Per apartment . Mr. ranceea said that is correct . There was discussion of .square footage requirements including narking at 1 . 5 spaces per unit . it -was decided to say 12 units per gross acre , Mr . Slack wished to note some editorial revisions for clarity . ., age 2 he suggested using the term � . s R� I , R� 2 , R- 3 and Po- 4 . Mr . . . � . se stated that this was not an advisable change because R- 1 - C :rte. -. Lly just a variation whereas R- 2 and Ft- 3 are actually zones ,~ Mr . Slack agreed to keep the classification as se `t summary , but he also suggested that Business should B - 1 and Lr * al should be I - 1 and I � 2 , Agriculatural should be A as, . 0 Public should be P as set up . ' Everyone agreed that this O `A °- . l. d be! made in the summary .. T=1= ': a.nnc: ll suggested that in R- 3 a sentence be added on the w - ri ' tcs per gross acre .. It was agreed to add ° tar g units .:t -i' P �� °= e Albrecht asked where Mr . Francese got the definition of Town of Ithaca Planning Board OW3010 November 6 , 1972 • light industry and heavy industry . Mr . Francese said that light industry would be like Ithaco Therm is borderline . Primarily he drew it from the old ordinance . National Cash is heavy , Morse Chain is clearly heavy . Mr . Slade asked if these industries are really definable . Mr . Albrecht asked .Mr . Francese if he were taling about their physical size , the noise they generate or whatever . Mrs . Holcomb asked if the mention of the industries on Page 3 of the summary is just for the summary or are they more clearly defined in the actual sections of the ordinance . Mr . Slack noted that they were not defined a whole lot more clearly on Page 11 either , It was Mr . Francese ' s opinion that there is a very obvious need in our community for employment . If anyone came in tomorrow and wanted to put in a factory they would be ( the Planning Board) very hard pressed not to put it in . He wondered if perhaps it should be left out . Mrs . Holcomb and Mr ; Slack said that it definitely should be in the ordinance , There followed a dis � cussion of heavy and light industry . Mr . Francese stated finally that the paragraph on Page 3 should be defined more closely . There now followed a discussion of the Agricultural (A) districts , Mr'. Francese said that it is desirable as he sees it to encourage campgrounds in agricultural districts and not in residential . However , Mrs . Holcomb noted that we have made almost all the areas of the Town • residential . Mr . Scannell said that he liked it the way it is in the summary in order to retain the integrity of the residential areas . Mr : Francese stated that the potential spots for camping are around the two State Parksi Mr Baker said that there is always land in Agricultural are -as that i5 suitable for campgrounds . Mr . Slack noted that there could be other places also , such as Enfield Falls . The Board now looked to the Public use districts ( P) . Mr . Francese stated that it was Mr . James Buyducos ' opinion that it is very important to say that the Planning Board may put on " reasonable requirements " on those institutions in Public use districts . For example , if Cornell University wants to do something , we could say that they should alter it or move it slightly or so on . Mrs . Holcomb noted that the law means that public institutions cannot be prevented from building in a particular zone . but that there should be certain requirements binding upon them . Mr . Buyoucos thinks we should try this and even take it to Court should that happen . Mr . Scannell r� � red along this line what happened with Fred Horton ' s home on Maple Ave.-.ni :e where they built the U . D . C . housing development . Mr . Slack ag :re3 ;id that this sort of thing is deplorable , and if our attorney is to contest such happenings we should let him . It was decided and Park land" to the ( P) districts . " . perusal of the summary continued into Residence Districts on < " ':;� 1, is the first noted . Mrs , Holcomb noted that there could 7 with the use of the wording "minimum road frontage of ® -?• �' + � , A ' Otis '.Drew has just been granted a development of 21 lots , has (a frontage of 25 feet , and also in some laces we do frontage such as Northview Road . Mr . Scannell suggested �.. : �" d . c: i alt the set back . Mr . Francese agreed . Mr . Slack affects sewer and water . One house is still one unit to fr ::ntage is less than 100 feet . Town of Ithaca Planning Board - 4 � November 6 , 1972 • It was decided to change the last sentence in sub - paragraph ( a) to read ° " The minimum lot width , with or without water and sewer , is 100 feet at the set back requirement . " Sub - paragraph ( b ) of the P� 1 sub category was now discussed . This was a discussion of two - family dwelling units on a lot with an area of 20 , 000 sq . ft . or more . Both Mrs . Holcomb and Mr . Scannell did not think that this had been agreed on in this manner at all . Mr . Scannell said that he thought that in a single family district we were going to keep out this duplex completely . Mrs . Holcomb said no . There followed a long discussion of apartments , sizes , basements , percentages . Mr . Francese read from the old ordinance . He said that the word "'basement " is really a problem word . fir . Slack noted that many apartments have been built in the " lower area" which you could call a basement except for that part of the basement which houses the heating unit . Mr . Albrecht suggested that the word base ment not be used at all . There was considerable heated discussion of wording for primary unit , secondary unit , duplexes , apartments . Mr . Francese stated that he would like to see it simple . He stated that this seems a very simple thing to him to just say ° 7you have a house and you can have an apartment one -half the size of the house " . Mr . Albrecht asked why does the Planning Board object to these types of dwelling units . Mr . Francese said because they do not get purchased , they get rented . For example , Eastern Heights . Mr . Albrecht said that there must be something else you can object to such as density , population , traffic . Mr . Francese noted that the ultimate objection is what has happened up on Sapsucker Woods Road . Mr . Slack said that there must be some guidelines that spell this out clearly to everyone ' s satisfaction . Could we do it on the basis of bedrooms ? It was noted that on a building permit , you only • have to show the perimeter of the proposed house and not the floor plana Mr . Scannell felt that it was one of those really difficult questions , It was decided to add the words " living space of the " to the sentence about the floor area of the secondary unit . Mr . Slack stated that he did not understand the use of the sente;ace at the be inning of this R" I section on Page 4 that reads "All land in the Town o Ithaca not otherwise classified is designated as R- 1 . 1 ° Mr . Francese said that it has to be there because Of legal requirements . It is in effect a default clause . On Page 5 :i.n the second paragraph Mr . Baker thought that it srjould read grain crops instead of " corn01 . It was decided to merely use the word " crops " . Mr . Slack also noted that the word " large " J . .�re `; tock and the word " herds " is not quite right . It was decided to s; <.y keeping of commercial 12"vestock1 ° . It was also decided to add the w• rcls " swimming pools " to the third paragraph on Page 5 after r .Qnr: :� p courts . 'eT ., �: Farming Board now moved on to the R" I - C sub - category on c �.he proposed summary . This refers to cluster development . discussed the background to clustering . He stated that no requirements for lot size whatever in the proposed sLite Tire exact location of all proposed dwelling units and open labe shown on a plan submitted for approval to the Planning Slack asked if there should not be some notation of octd ( of Health approval . Mr . Francese thought that that was assumed r: c he a fact . He stated that no matter what you build you have to have Town of Ithaca Planning Board - 5 - Novenber 6 , 1972 • Health Department approval . Mr . Slack still thought it should be there and suggested that it be put in back on Page 4 . Mr . Francese agreed and it was decided to add a sentence to the end of the last paragraph in the preliminary summary on page 4 , as follows : "All construction of residential units must have prior approval of the Tompkins County Health Department . B ° Also it was agreed to change the density in an Po- 1caC area to no greater than 3 . 5 per gross acre . Now , the discussion turned to R=* 2 Multiple Residence Distect , on Page 7 . Under condition ( 1 ) it was decided to change it to P7Establish that there is a. need for additional multiple residences in that neighborhood ,; " Mr . Francese noted that the Planning Board is establis11-1 ing a revolutionary concept here . The establishment of new R= 2 distric ' will require an amendment to the zoning ordinance and must Deet the following conditions : . ( 1 ) The proposed development will not create a danger to public health because of too high a concentration of popula � tion or severe congestion on town , county , or state roads ; ( 2) The proposed development will not adversely affect the established charac - ter or value of the surrounding property ; ( 3 ) The land must be served by public water and sewer : ( as finally agreed upon .. a see following) Mr . ; Albreicht posed a problem as he saw it . Suppose he wanted to build a cluster development and lie has to cone to the Planning Board to tell him that he can or cannot , based on need . This baffled Mr . • Slack . He said that he would feel that the Planning Board is trying to run his business . Are you saying that he will not make a success of It ? Mr . Francese noted the Schoenfeld development proposal . He : stated that on this proposal the Town felt that they did not need any more apartmenes :i.n the Northeast . Mrs . Holcomb said she was wondering if condition ( 1 ) should not be thrown out and condition ( 3 ) be the one to rely on . She noted that the word 0 ° need1P is a problem word . She suggested that if condition ( 1 ) is eliminated , which speaks to need , then the rezoning could be based on permissible use and meeting of conditions . Mr . Francese cited the Village of Cayuga Heights and their use of " need" in their ordinance . Mr . Slack said he was in favor of striking out condition ( 1 ) All agreed . Then on Page 7 , condition ( 3 ) is ( 1 ) , ( 4) is ( 2 ) and ( 2) is ( 3 ) . Mr . Slack asked if multiple residence districts are allowable in the Town under the proposed ordinance . Mr . Francese said no . Mrs . Holcomb pointed out that on the bottom of Paige 7 the procedure for re zoning is outlined . She also recommended deleting the words ° ° and final" on the top of page 8 in item ( 1 ) and , the words 11for the final approval " in item ( 2) . This was agreeable . Also on Page 7 it was agreed to change the first sentence of the last paragraph to read : " In this district each mul - tiple dwelling requires a minimum of 3 , 600 square feet of gross lot area with no more than 12 units per gross acre and suitable open space must be set aside for use by the residents . It was also decided to E> dd theword " generally" to the last sentence on Page 7 so it reads : ° '�nc r_ rocedure for rezoning of R, 1 to R42 is generally as follows : " . :?_ a viaw also decided to change the second sentence of the opening par.ai,r'a.ph on Page 7 re Multiple Residence District at the top of Va_ , � 7 , to read : " The establishment of new R- 2 districts will requi . re m,..ndnent to the zoning ordinance and oust meet the following ° :. di �-: i, ons : ° 0 On Page 8 , the last paragraph of the section on R- 2 -lul iple I'esidence District , Mrs . Holccob was concerned with the s .n" tence about apartment complexes being incompatible with the Town of Ithaca. Planning Board - 6 - November 6 , 1972 • surrounding land use . She asked would an apartment complex that is a good plan not be compatible with the surrounding land use ? Mr . Francese mentioned the Snyder Hall Road area . Mrs . Holcomb did not agree . She stated that a multiple residence zone is a permitted use in the Town . This is the thing that we are trying to get across . It was agreed to Make out that sentence . . The next sub- category is R 3 Mobile Hone Park District . Mr . Slack said that he did not like the use of the words " recreational purposes , in the last paragraph of the section on Mobile Hone Park District on PaE.;e 9-. It was decided to change the third and fourth sentences to read : "Adequate water and sewer service must be pro- vided to each trailer and sufficient open space oust be retained for the use of the residents . And Plans must be shown for the lands caping of the mobile hone park . " It was also dpclded to follow the same set up as for the P.- 2 district under the rocedure for rezoning to R 3 . Condition ( 1 ) is deleted , ( 3 ) is ( 1 ) , ( 4� is ( 2) and ( 2) is ( 3 ) . The sub - section on Planned Unit Developments cane up next . Mr . Slack suggested adding the word " and/ or" to the bottom of page 9 : The first sentence under P . U . D . would then read : " It is the intent of this ordinance ito permit planned unit developments consisting of combinations of Residential , Conmercial and/ or Industrial land use . " Mr . Francese stated that he would like to add a sentence to the effect that more consideration would be given to the re - zoning on a particu- lar piece of land to multiple commercial etc if it were commercial with a big multiple around it . Mrs . Holcomb said that she thought this was covered since we have said 100 acres as the minimum acreage requirement . She felt . it . would be discriminatory if we said what you are trying to sa.y . The next category is Business Districts . Add B- 1 and B - 2 as noted previously in these Minutes . Change the letter category to B - 1 and B - 2 in the opening paragraph . Mr . Scannell wanted to see some words that would control the amount of noise in business districts the sane as we have said for industrial districts. Mr . Francese agreed and also the Board members with Mr . Slack stating it for the Board , to add the following; sentence to the last paragraph on Business Districts on the top of Page 11 : " Site plans must include detailed plans for the adequate control of noise , air and water pollution . P ° There were no changes in Industrial Districts except to add I - 1 and I - 2 at the heading . In the Agricultural Districts on Page 11 add (A) to the heading . On Page 12 under Agricultural Districts Mrs . Holcomb suggested changing the last, sentence of the last paragraph to read : 1913Y special permit approved by the Planning Board , campgrounds may be parmitted . 11 This was agreed upon . . In Public Use Districts add ( P) to the heading . The final change: recommended and agreed upon was in the last sentence on Page 13 or the summary . That sentence will read : "The Planning Board may make such reasonable requirements of the applicant as are needed to insure the health , safety and environmental protection of Town 1 Town of Ithaca Planning Board � 7 _ November 6 , 1972 residents . " The meeting was adjourned at 10 : 30 p . m . Respectfully submitted , Nancy M. Fuller , Secretary .