HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB Minutes 1972-11-06 TOW14 OF ITHACA
PlAN14ING BOARD
November 6 , 1972
A working meeting of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board was held
on Monday , November 6 , 1972 , in the Town Offices at 108 East Green
Street , Ithaca , New York , at 7 : 30 p . m .
PRESENT : Chairman Barbara Holcomb , Sam Slack , Daniel Baker ,
Arnold Albrecht Maurice Harris Robert Scannell Peter Francese
( Planning Consultant) ,
' '
DISCUSSION OF PROPOSED ZONING OP.DINANCE .
Mr . Francese led the discussion and passed out a copy of the
Summary of the proposed Zoning Ordinance for perusal page by page by
the members of the Planning Board ,
The Town of Ithaca will be zoned into five different types of
districts , as . fol. lowsee Residence (R) Business (B ) , Industrial ( I) ,
Agricultural (A) and Public ( P) ..
The Residence districts (R) will be sub ® categorized as R- 1 ,
R- 1 - C2 R- 2 and R 3 ,
Mr . Francese said that the Rl1 C sub - category is not a separate
district but a designation of Pool . It is not really another zone
because it does not require : Town Board approval . Mrsa .Holcomb ques_tian -
ed the designation of four units per acre under R' l - C , She had thought
it had been decided that it would be 3 . 5 pet acre : Mr . Francese
thought that it had definitely been decided at 4 but after discussion
and many calculations being made , it was decided that 3 . 5 per acre
was correct . It was decided to add the word gross before acre .
ASIDE - PERSONNEL PR03LE1qS .
Mrs ; Holcorob wished to speak at this point about the fact that
Mr . Daniel Baker ' is term on the Planning Board expires on December 312
1972 . Chairman Holcomb asked Mr . Baker if he were in a position to
crwt ; : another term of office . Mr . Baker said that he would be happy to
c �"Q,nue on as a member of the Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca .
Additionally , Mrs . Holcomb said that Mr . Fred Scott had called
evening and stated that he feels that he really ought to
:.- om the Planning Board because of continuing conflicts in
meetings; . He is , in fact , tendering his resignation . The -
''� ' . . oard needs to find someone to fill Mr . Scott ' s term .
7 .' tz; o� ested that Mr . Edward IUn attorney , Mrs .
& , y , might be able to
She also suggested that Mr . Jack Lowe might be able at
return to the Planning Board . Another possibility that
»'_ J.- A,Y� J. owed is Mr . Bill Schmidt . It was agreed that an attorney
'4 - > : at help to the Planning Board , but if Mr . King is unable
Mrs . Holcomb will ask Mr . Lowe and then Mr . Schmidt .
Town of Ithaca Planning Board - 2w November 6 , 1972
• STATUS OF RE UESTS FOR SPEED LIMITS .
Mrs . Holcomb reported that as of this point in time in East
Ithaca , with the exception of the stretch between Ellis Hollow Road
and Pine Tree ]load , all of the requests that have been submitted for
speed reductions have been approved by the Department of Transporta "
tion in Syracu;ye and forwarded .to Albany for final approval . Mr .
Slack said to keep pushing on the Ellis Hollow Road one .
DISCUSSION OF 1,TtOPOSED ZONING ORDINANCE .
With reference to the R- 2 category on Page 3 of the proposed
zoning ordinance summary , Mrs . Holcomb had a proposal .
Mrs . IIolc: omb stated that she . learned many things on her trip to
the New York State Planning Federation meeting , In Yorktown and other
places also , they are basing unit density in multiple residence zones
on the number of bedrooms per apartment . There can be greater density
if you have studio apartments than say a two or three bedroom apart -
ment . In order to do something about density and also to keep the
amount of open space as large as possible , they have a sliding scale .
Mrs . Holcomb asked how many is it per gross acre when you say one
unit per 3 , 600 sq , ft . ? Mr . Francese said that it was 12 , 1 it
used to be . 13 under the old - ordinance . Mr . Francese said that he
did not see it as a -problem now and he was in favor of keeping the
• ordinance sample .
Mr . Scannell felt that it was the number of students generated
that can be a problem and not really the number of units .
Mr . Fran,cese suggested saying 12 units per gross acre for R4MP2 .
Mrs .' Holcomb astced' 'Mr . Francese if the ordinance says gross
acres , does it always mean witch goads and parking etc , ? Are you
saying roughly 1 , 000 sq . ft . Per apartment . Mr. ranceea said that
is correct .
There was discussion of .square footage requirements including
narking at 1 . 5 spaces per unit . it -was decided to say 12 units per
gross acre ,
Mr . Slack wished to note some editorial revisions for clarity .
., age 2 he suggested using the term
� . s R� I , R� 2 , R- 3 and Po- 4 . Mr .
. . � . se stated that this was not an advisable change because R- 1 - C
:rte. -. Lly just a variation whereas R- 2 and Ft- 3 are actually
zones ,~ Mr . Slack agreed to keep the classification as se `t
summary , but he also suggested that Business should B - 1 and
Lr * al should be I - 1 and I � 2 , Agriculatural should be A as,
. 0 Public should be P as set up . ' Everyone agreed that this
O `A °- . l. d be! made in the summary ..
T=1= ': a.nnc: ll suggested that in R- 3 a sentence be added on the
w - ri ' tcs per gross acre .. It was agreed to add ° tar g units
.:t -i' P
�� °= e Albrecht asked where Mr . Francese got the definition of
Town of Ithaca Planning Board OW3010 November 6 , 1972
• light industry and heavy industry . Mr . Francese said that light
industry would be like Ithaco Therm is borderline . Primarily he
drew it from the old ordinance . National Cash is heavy , Morse Chain
is clearly heavy .
Mr . Slade asked if these industries are really definable . Mr .
Albrecht asked .Mr . Francese if he were taling about their physical
size , the noise they generate or whatever . Mrs . Holcomb asked if the
mention of the industries on Page 3 of the summary is just for the
summary or are they more clearly defined in the actual sections of the
ordinance . Mr . Slack noted that they were not defined a whole lot
more clearly on Page 11 either , It was Mr . Francese ' s opinion that
there is a very obvious need in our community for employment . If
anyone came in tomorrow and wanted to put in a factory they would be
( the Planning Board) very hard pressed not to put it in . He wondered
if perhaps it should be left out . Mrs . Holcomb and Mr ; Slack said
that it definitely should be in the ordinance , There followed a dis �
cussion of heavy and light industry . Mr . Francese stated finally
that the paragraph on Page 3 should be defined more closely .
There now followed a discussion of the Agricultural (A) districts ,
Mr'. Francese said that it is desirable as he sees it to encourage
campgrounds in agricultural districts and not in residential . However ,
Mrs . Holcomb noted that we have made almost all the areas of the Town
•
residential . Mr . Scannell said that he liked it the way it is in the summary in order to retain the integrity of the residential areas .
Mr : Francese stated that the potential spots for camping are around
the two State Parksi Mr Baker said that there is always land in
Agricultural are -as that i5 suitable for campgrounds . Mr . Slack noted
that there could be other places also , such as Enfield Falls .
The Board now looked to the Public use districts ( P) . Mr .
Francese stated that it was Mr . James Buyducos ' opinion that it is
very important to say that the Planning Board may put on " reasonable
requirements " on those institutions in Public use districts . For
example , if Cornell University wants to do something , we could say
that they should alter it or move it slightly or so on . Mrs . Holcomb
noted that the law means that public institutions cannot be prevented
from building in a particular zone . but that there should be certain
requirements binding upon them . Mr . Buyoucos thinks we should try
this and even take it to Court should that happen . Mr . Scannell
r� � red along this line what happened with Fred Horton ' s home on Maple
Ave.-.ni :e where they built the U . D . C . housing development . Mr . Slack
ag :re3 ;id that this sort of thing is deplorable , and if our attorney is
to contest such happenings we should let him . It was decided
and Park land" to the ( P) districts .
" . perusal of the summary continued into Residence Districts on
< " ':;� 1, is the first noted . Mrs , Holcomb noted that there could
7 with the use of the wording "minimum road frontage of
® -?• �' + � , A ' Otis '.Drew has just been granted a development of 21 lots ,
has (a frontage of 25 feet , and also in some laces we do
frontage such as Northview Road . Mr . Scannell suggested
�.. : �" d . c: i alt the set back . Mr . Francese agreed . Mr . Slack
affects sewer and water . One house is still one unit
to fr ::ntage is less than 100 feet .
Town of Ithaca Planning Board - 4 � November 6 , 1972
• It was decided to change the last sentence in sub - paragraph ( a)
to read ° " The minimum lot width , with or without water and sewer , is
100 feet at the set back requirement . "
Sub - paragraph ( b ) of the P� 1 sub category was now discussed .
This was a discussion of two - family dwelling units on a lot with an
area of 20 , 000 sq . ft . or more . Both Mrs . Holcomb and Mr . Scannell
did not think that this had been agreed on in this manner at all .
Mr . Scannell said that he thought that in a single family district we
were going to keep out this duplex completely . Mrs . Holcomb said no .
There followed a long discussion of apartments , sizes , basements ,
percentages . Mr . Francese read from the old ordinance . He said
that the word "'basement " is really a problem word . fir . Slack noted
that many apartments have been built in the " lower area" which you
could call a basement except for that part of the basement which
houses the heating unit . Mr . Albrecht suggested that the word base
ment not be used at all . There was considerable heated discussion of
wording for primary unit , secondary unit , duplexes , apartments . Mr .
Francese stated that he would like to see it simple . He stated that
this seems a very simple thing to him to just say ° 7you have a house
and you can have an apartment one -half the size of the house " . Mr .
Albrecht asked why does the Planning Board object to these types of
dwelling units . Mr . Francese said because they do not get purchased ,
they get rented . For example , Eastern Heights . Mr . Albrecht said
that there must be something else you can object to such as density ,
population , traffic . Mr . Francese noted that the ultimate objection
is what has happened up on Sapsucker Woods Road . Mr . Slack said that
there must be some guidelines that spell this out clearly to everyone ' s
satisfaction . Could we do it on the basis of bedrooms ? It was noted
that on a building permit , you only • have to show the perimeter of the
proposed house and not the floor plana Mr . Scannell felt that it was
one of those really difficult questions , It was decided to add the
words " living space of the " to the sentence about the floor area of
the secondary unit . Mr . Slack stated that he did not understand the
use of the sente;ace at the be inning of this R" I section on Page 4 that
reads "All land in the Town o Ithaca not otherwise classified is
designated as R- 1 . 1 ° Mr . Francese said that it has to be there because
Of legal requirements . It is in effect a default clause .
On Page 5 :i.n the second paragraph Mr . Baker thought that it
srjould read grain crops instead of " corn01 . It was decided to merely
use the word " crops " . Mr . Slack also noted that the word " large "
J . .�re `; tock and the word " herds " is not quite right . It was decided to
s; <.y keeping of commercial 12"vestock1 ° . It was also decided to add
the w• rcls " swimming pools " to the third paragraph on Page 5 after
r .Qnr: :� p courts .
'eT ., �: Farming Board now moved on to the R" I - C sub - category on
c �.he proposed summary . This refers to cluster development .
discussed the background to clustering . He stated that
no requirements for lot size whatever in the proposed
sLite Tire exact location of all proposed dwelling units and open
labe shown on a plan submitted for approval to the Planning
Slack asked if there should not be some notation of
octd ( of Health approval . Mr . Francese thought that that was assumed
r: c
he a fact . He stated that no matter what you build you have to have
Town of Ithaca Planning Board - 5 - Novenber 6 , 1972
• Health Department approval . Mr . Slack still thought it should be
there and suggested that it be put in back on Page 4 . Mr . Francese
agreed and it was decided to add a sentence to the end of the last
paragraph in the preliminary summary on page 4 , as follows : "All
construction of residential units must have prior approval of the
Tompkins County Health Department . B ° Also it was agreed to change
the density in an Po- 1caC area to no greater than 3 . 5 per gross acre .
Now , the discussion turned to R=* 2 Multiple Residence Distect , on
Page 7 . Under condition ( 1 ) it was decided to change it to P7Establish
that there is a. need for additional multiple residences in that
neighborhood ,; " Mr . Francese noted that the Planning Board is establis11-1
ing a revolutionary concept here . The establishment of new R= 2 distric '
will require an amendment to the zoning ordinance and must Deet the
following conditions : . ( 1 ) The proposed development will not create a
danger to public health because of too high a concentration of popula �
tion or severe congestion on town , county , or state roads ; ( 2) The
proposed development will not adversely affect the established charac -
ter or value of the surrounding property ; ( 3 ) The land must be served
by public water and sewer : ( as finally agreed upon .. a see following)
Mr . ; Albreicht posed a problem as he saw it . Suppose he wanted to
build a cluster development and lie has to cone to the Planning Board
to tell him that he can or cannot , based on need . This baffled Mr .
• Slack . He said that he would feel that the Planning Board is trying
to run his business . Are you saying that he will not make a success of
It ? Mr . Francese noted the Schoenfeld development proposal . He
: stated that on this proposal the Town felt that they did not need any
more apartmenes :i.n the Northeast . Mrs . Holcomb said she was wondering
if condition ( 1 ) should not be thrown out and condition ( 3 ) be the
one to rely on . She noted that the word 0 ° need1P is a problem word .
She suggested that if condition ( 1 ) is eliminated , which speaks to
need , then the rezoning could be based on permissible use and meeting
of conditions . Mr . Francese cited the Village of Cayuga Heights and
their use of " need" in their ordinance . Mr . Slack said he was in favor
of striking out condition ( 1 ) All agreed . Then on Page 7 , condition
( 3 ) is ( 1 ) , ( 4) is ( 2 ) and ( 2) is ( 3 ) . Mr . Slack asked if multiple
residence districts are allowable in the Town under the proposed
ordinance . Mr . Francese said no . Mrs . Holcomb pointed out that on
the bottom of Paige 7 the procedure for re zoning is outlined . She
also recommended deleting the words ° ° and final" on the top of page 8
in item ( 1 ) and , the words 11for the final approval " in item ( 2) . This
was agreeable . Also on Page 7 it was agreed to change the first
sentence of the last paragraph to read : " In this district each mul -
tiple dwelling requires a minimum of 3 , 600 square feet of gross lot
area with no more than 12 units per gross acre and suitable open
space must be set aside for use by the residents . It was also decided
to E> dd theword " generally" to the last sentence on Page 7 so it reads :
° '�nc r_ rocedure for rezoning of R, 1 to R42 is generally as follows : "
. :?_ a viaw also decided to change the second sentence of the opening
par.ai,r'a.ph on Page 7 re Multiple Residence District at the top of
Va_ , � 7 , to read : " The establishment of new R- 2 districts will requi
. re
m,..ndnent to the zoning ordinance and oust meet the following
° :. di �-: i, ons : ° 0 On Page 8 , the last paragraph of the section on R- 2
-lul iple I'esidence District , Mrs . Holccob was concerned with the
s .n" tence about apartment complexes being incompatible with the
Town of Ithaca. Planning Board - 6 - November 6 , 1972
• surrounding land use . She asked would an apartment complex that is a
good plan not be compatible with the surrounding land use ? Mr .
Francese mentioned the Snyder Hall Road area . Mrs . Holcomb did not
agree . She stated that a multiple residence zone is a permitted use
in the Town . This is the thing that we are trying to get across . It
was agreed to Make out that sentence . .
The next sub- category is R 3 Mobile Hone Park District . Mr .
Slack said that he did not like the use of the words " recreational
purposes , in the last paragraph of the section on Mobile Hone Park
District on PaE.;e 9-. It was decided to change the third and fourth
sentences to read : "Adequate water and sewer service must be pro-
vided to each trailer and sufficient open space oust be retained for
the use of the residents . And Plans must be shown for the lands
caping of the mobile hone park . " It was also dpclded to follow the
same set up as for the P.- 2 district under the rocedure for rezoning to
R 3 . Condition ( 1 ) is deleted , ( 3 ) is ( 1 ) , ( 4� is ( 2) and ( 2) is
( 3 ) .
The sub - section on Planned Unit Developments cane up next . Mr .
Slack suggested adding the word " and/ or" to the bottom of page 9 : The
first sentence under P . U . D . would then read : " It is the intent of
this ordinance ito permit planned unit developments consisting of
combinations of Residential , Conmercial and/ or Industrial land use . "
Mr . Francese stated that he would like to add a sentence to the effect
that more consideration would be given to the re - zoning on a particu-
lar piece of land to multiple commercial etc if it were commercial
with a big multiple around it . Mrs . Holcomb said that she thought
this was covered since we have said 100 acres as the minimum acreage
requirement . She felt . it . would be discriminatory if we said what you
are trying to sa.y .
The next category is Business Districts . Add B- 1 and B - 2 as
noted previously in these Minutes . Change the letter category to
B - 1 and B - 2 in the opening paragraph . Mr . Scannell wanted to see some
words that would control the amount of noise in business districts the
sane as we have said for industrial districts. Mr . Francese agreed
and also the Board members with Mr . Slack stating it for the Board , to
add the following; sentence to the last paragraph on Business Districts
on the top of Page 11 : " Site plans must include detailed plans for
the adequate control of noise , air and water pollution . P °
There were no changes in Industrial Districts except to add I - 1
and I - 2 at the heading .
In the Agricultural Districts on Page 11 add (A) to the heading .
On Page 12 under Agricultural Districts Mrs . Holcomb suggested
changing the last, sentence of the last paragraph to read : 1913Y
special permit approved by the Planning Board , campgrounds may be
parmitted . 11 This was agreed upon .
. In Public Use Districts add ( P) to the heading . The final
change: recommended and agreed upon was in the last sentence on Page
13 or the summary . That sentence will read : "The Planning Board
may make such reasonable requirements of the applicant as are needed
to insure the health , safety and environmental protection of Town
1
Town of Ithaca Planning Board � 7 _
November 6 , 1972
residents . "
The meeting was adjourned at 10 : 30 p . m .
Respectfully submitted ,
Nancy M. Fuller , Secretary .