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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB Minutes 1972-10-10 / TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD October~ 10 , 1972 • A working; meeting of the Town of Ithaca PlanningBoard was held on Tuesday , October 10 , 1972 , in the Town Offices at 1 €3 East Green Street , Ithaca , New York , at 7a30 p . m . PU ENT : Chairwoman Barbara Holcomb , Sam Slack , Arnold Albrecht Daniel Baker , aobert Scannell , Peter Francese ( Planning Consultant ) 9 David Cowan , ( Zoning Officer) , Reynolds Metz (Assistant Zoning Officer) . ALSO Pr.Ec,'ENT : Bob Smith , WTKO Rad9 o Susan Bernstein , WBR Radio Otis Drew Richard Bowlsby PRESENTATION OF PIANS BY MP ._ OTIS DREW TO ENLARGE HIS SUBDIVISION. Mr . Drew showed a map of his proposed extension to his present subdivision . There were several suggestions from members of the Planning Board . Mr . Scannell suggested that some of the land was unusable because of the contours . Mr . Francese Mated that he could foresee no drainage problems , He also suggested that Mr . Drew talk to Mr . Sam McNeil . According to Mr . Drew he has talked with the people in the Health Department and his lot sizes are OK and most of the lots have been tested for percolation . There are 21 new lots in the pro - posed subdivision none of which are less than 313 , 000 sq . ft . There will be two new roads , a continuation of Drew Road and Vera Drive . Mr . Francese was concerned about the use of two road names on what is essentially a circle . Mr . Scannell would like to see a larger radius on the circle road and he felt that lot # 32 was a very odd shape . Mrs . Holcomb also wondered about lot #32 and asked if there could be a lot with such a small frontage - 491 . Mr . Cowan stated that all that is required for frontage is 151 . Mr . Francese pointed out that the Post Office might have problems with the road names if the road at the very end of the subdivision were different . Mr . Slack suggested the road but Mr . Scannell pointed out that you cannot deadmendaa road : that is over 500 `' long . Mr . Scannell felt that Mr . Drew could get a 50 ' radius and not hurt the lots . Mr . Drew informed the Board that Mr . Morey has approved the road . After much discussion it was decided to name the road Vera Circle . There was discussion of several items that needed to be attended to by Mr . Drew , e . g . , street numbers , parcel nuai- bers , Health Dept: . approval . There was further discussion of the map an(I the contours and it was noted that the contours as marked on the map are in error by 1.00 ' . Mr . Francese asked Mr . Drew how the Electric and Gas Company ruling will affect the subdivision . Mr . Drew stated that he has already spoken with the Electric and Gas people and all the wiring will be underground . Mr . Francese wanted to know about the telephone lines also . Mrs . Holcomb stated that the Planning; Board has to have an as - built drawing of power and telephone lines . Mr . Slack asked if there were any regulations on setting markers for underground cables . Mr . Holcomb stated that if there were no more , questions , the ® Planning Board nelads to set up G Public Hearing on this proposed A .. division. P p sed sub Mr . Scannell asked about drainage from lots off Vera Drive (now known as Vera Circle ) . Mr . Drew stated that there is a culvert (Lot - 2 .. Town of Ithaca Planning Board October 108 1972 #45 ) that should take care of the drainage . Mr . Francese compiled a list of items needing attention . The list included the following : 1 . Show drainage culverts across streets and along lot lines . 2 . Fix contour interval numbers . 3 Shoo► new land that has been bought and sold . 4 . Change lot lines on Poole Road , 5 . Change name to Vera Circle . 6 . House numbers - even on North and odd on South . Mr . Francese affixed the house numbers on the map for Mr . Drew . It was MOVED by Mr . Arnold Albrecht that the Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca will hold a Public Hearing for the extension of the Drew Park Subdivision preliminary approval on October 24th , 1972 , at 8 : 00 p . m . Seconded by Mr . Scannell + Unanimously carried , KE NNILWORTH PLA W INGS Mrs . Holcomb stated that the Planning Board still has hanging fire the FCennilworth plantings and she was wondering if it were the opinion . of the Board that it is now too late for this fall ' s plantings : The problem lies in the . fact that the County Highway . Department , Ihas not finished the underground drainage work . Mrs . Holcomb has talked with Mr . Stevenson and he has several problems that have set him back . Mr . Stevenson felt , however , that his work would not interfere with the plantings . It was Mrs . Holcomb ' s opinion that it would be too late to plant by the time the Planning Board got Kennilworth going . Mr . Scannell agreed that it really was too late to do any planting . Spring . It was agreed that the ICennilworth plantings will go until the RUMSEY ITHACA _CORPOFATION (Gravel Pit ) 1 . Mrs . Holcomb pointed out to the Board that in her dis � cussions with Paula Mueller , Assistant to Mrs # Constance Cook , Assemblywoman , she stated that Rumsey" Ithaca has not been asked to submit a future land use plan . M-rs . Holcomb has checked with Attorney John Barney and he has okayed such a request being made as a part of their permit , Mr . Francese told the Planning Board that Mr . Van Epps has approached a Mr . Calhoun of the Soul Conservation Services . Mr . C alhoun has supplied Mr . Van , Epps with a plan for his operation for plantings , etc . , in order to` preserve the land . Mr . Francese said - 3 - Town of Ithaca Planning Board October 10 , 1972 • that Mr . Calhoun would do this same sort of thing for the Town 'upon request and also give the Planning Board what he gave Mr . Van Eps This Service was initially for the help of farmers , but they now help developers . As an aside , I+p . Francese stated that he felt the Planning Board should ask for this service for Beacon Hills . Mr . Dan Baker stated that he had available Soil Survey Maps of the entire County „ He felt you could pin down an area pretty closely . Mr . Francese asked where these maps are located and Mr . Baker stated that they are right in the Soil Conservation Office . Mrd Francese stated further: that he did not want to get off into Beacon Hills , but he would :like to point out that the Planning Board should give a copy of the Beacon Hills development to Mr . Frank Liquori , County Planning Office . He repeated that he felt that the. Board should avail themselves of the services of the Soil Conservation Service . The members agreed . 2 . Mrs . Holcomb pointed out that the Planning Board has neglected to ;specify the plantings , i . e . , trees , deciduous or other" wise . It was Mr . Scannell ° s opinion that the Planning Board could not specify plantings . He felt that the Board should see a plan and review it since so much depends on sun , soil , etc . Mr . Francese stated that The National Sand and Gravel Assoc . gave Miss Mueller most of her information and perhaps the Board could get some ideas) from there too4 3 . Mrs . Holcomb wondered whether a time limit for gravel extraction should be required . Mr . Barney has said that this would be possible , but he would question any limit less than the life of the lease . He did say that the Planning Board could limit the amount of gravel per year . There followed some discussion of limits and how they could be arrived at . Mr . Francese thought it would be advisable to find out just how much Rumsey- Ithaca has been getting out per year . Perhaps an average over the last three years . Mr . Cowan felt that that would be a difficult problem because they have been drawing from the South: side but if one used the entire business operation a figure could be arrived at . Mr . Francese stated that there still has to be a figure placed on the performance bond . He said that in some areas the bonds are at $ 1 , 500 . 00 per acre . For this particular operation at 20 acres the bond might be placed at $ 30 000 . 00 . Mr . Scannell said that that figure sounded like a reasonable one to him . Mr . Cowan agreed . It was decided after brief discussion that a performance bond based on $ 1 , 500 . 00 per acre would be suggested . Mr . Francese continued and stated that they are going to get a permit - - what will be the duration of the permit ? Mr . Cowan thought: that the direction that should be taken would be a one - year permit which would be renewable annually . Mr . Francese asked about a permit fee being required . It was his opinion that there should be a fee required . Mrs . Holcomb wondered if the Planning Board can charge a fee without an ordinance . . . a Town of Ithaca Planning Board October 10 , 1972 • Perhaps there should be a Town Board resolution . Mr . Francese asked what the- Board thought would be a reasonable fee . Mr . Cowan suggested $ 25 . 00 . This was agreeable to everyone . Mrs . Holcomb stated that she would check with Mr . Barney and see if we need a legal basis for requiring a fee . MOVED by Mrs . Barbara Holcombo THAT the Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca suggests that Rumsey� Ithaca , Corp . be required to submit a planting plan for their review and acceptance as part of their future land use plane THAT an annual limit be ? laced for extraction based on the average of the past three years experience ; THAT the Performance Bond requested be established at the rate of $ 1 , 500 . 00 per acre . Seconded by Mr . Sam Slack , unanimously passed . GROFF ASSOCIATES ' PLAN FOR ELDERLY HOUSING , Both Mrs „ Holcomb and Mr . Francese wished" to bring to the attention of the Planning Board that Groff Associates has been to the • Town Board three times with a proposal for federal housing with a tax stabilization requirement on said housing . Mrs . Holcomb and Mr . Francese feel that the procedure in this matter has been backwards . Request for tax stabilization has come to the Town Board before the Planning Board has been consulted on this project . If the Planning Board had been consulted on this there might well have been some grave reservations , such as the location , etc . Mrs . Holcomb stated that in her opinion the original Kennilworth development as approved by the Planning Board is out . Groff Assoc . is presenting a new plan to the Town Board and some of their reasons for the acceptability of this site for elderly housing is that it is near a shopping centre , there are major roads , there is a laundry , super market and vacant land . Mrs . Holcomb asked for the opinions of the Planning Board , Mr . Scannell stated that he could see no problem with the major roads . Mr . Albrecht said that there was no need to worry about schools . Mrs . Holcomb said that the real concern for this site is being voiced by the Senior Citizen Housing Committee . They feel very strongly that the activities provided by the Senior Citizens Council should be nearby any housing for the elderly . Mr . Scannell felt that the group involved with this new project has consistently changed their plans almost every few months . Mrs . Holcomb stated further that 100 units of this complex would be for federally assisted housing for the elderly and the rest can be regular rentals . Groff Associates maintains that without the W5 • Town of Ithaca Planning Board October 10 , 1972 tax abatement they cannot give the Planning Board a plan . Mr . Scannell stated that there are proper procedures and they are not being followed . After discussion , it was MOVED by Mr . Robert Scannell * WHEREAS , it has been called to the attention of the Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca that the present proposed plan of Groff Associates is substantially different from the plan approved by the Planning Board for this parcel of land , therefore BE IT M11jSOLVED , that the Planning Board feels that Groff Associates should be required to submit their present proposal to the Planning Board for consideration and recommendations . Seconded by Mr . Sam Slack , unanimously passed . CHECK LIST FOR SUBDIVISIONS At this point , Mrs . Holcomb recommended that the Board dismiss the development. of a check list for subdivisions for another time . This was agreeable to the Board . Mrs . Holcomb then stated that after adjournment the Board will retire into Executive Session , ADJ OURUIgE NT The Meeting was officially adjourned at 9 ° 20 p . m . The Planning Board will meet again on October 24th , 1972 , at 7030 p . m . , EXECUTIVE SESSION With reference to the Drew Subdivision , Mr .. Scannell wished to say that he was very concerned with the lots that are not perpendicular to the road . Mr . Francese said that he will talk with the Engineer for Mr . Drew , Jack Dougherty . With reference to Groff Associates , it was agreed that the proper procedures are being ignored . Now , Mrs . Holcomb had several itemsfor discussion by the Planning Board , 1 . PERSONNEL . Mr . Francese is unable to continue in his present role as Panning Consultant . The question now is whether to ' have a combination Town Planner / Town Engineer . Also there is the question of a Town Constable . Mrs . Holcomb said that there is no provision in the 1973 Town • Budget for a Town Constable . There is apparently real Townspeople resistance to spending tax money for a police officer and Supervisor Schwan does not wish to push for it now . It is therefore , the responsibility of the Planning Board to set forth to the Town Board and the public the need for a Town Constable every time they see a need . There is no money in the budget for Revenue Sharing from the s � 6 w Town of Ithaca 'Planning Board October 10 , 1972 Federal Government. If the Planning. B'bard does have an firm figures by the Budget time next month ( November) , they could incme include the revenue sharing amount in the budget . We could then push for a Town Constable or parks , or whatever seems most necessary , The Planning Board could do some research to get a study of what a Town Constable might cost . Mr ; Albrecht asked if there could be a build-up of what police services already do exist , such as the County Sheriff . Mts . Holcomb said that that was a definite possibility since there has been talk of a County-wide police force . Data gathered from Cayuga Heights might be very helpful . It would be most important to know if their police force is supported by fines . Mr . Slack pointed out that the police in Cayuga Heights cover a very small area . 2 , PLANNING . As for a Planning Consultant , if for some unforeseen reason after a year or so of full time attention to his own business , things do not go as well as expected , Mr . Francese is the Planner - Engineer that we have right on our doorstep . The possibilities at the moment are , however , a part - time engineer and part - time planner , an engineer zoning officer , a contract with the County for a part - time planner joint planning functions with the City but there might be a confilct of interest here and a better plan is on the Town- County level : It i § the opinion of the Supervisor and the Town Board that we should go ahead on a temporary basis . Peter Francese will 'contin�ie on a part - time technical basis and the Chairman of the Planning Board will do all of the administra" give work , This is not a good plan over a long term . It was the feeling of the Planning Board that a combination of Mrs . Holcomb and Mr . Francese would be quite acceptable 3 . ZONING ORDINANCE . 'Mrs . Holcomb stated that if we are committed to offing a Public Hearing in November on the proposed Zoning Ordinance , Mr , Francese should come up with a summary incorporating changes and have it available before the Hearing , Mr . Francese stated that he will have a draft of the revised summary of the Ordinance and a revised map on the 24th of October , the next Planning . Board meeting . If the Planning Board approves it , it will be available for November 1st . Mr . Scannell suggested that the newspaper might run the summary , or at least a feature . Mr . Francese will look into this possibility . It was decided that November 14 1972 , will be the . regular meeting of the Planning Board and the 29th of November will. be the public informational meeting on the Ordinance itself. DENSITY FOR CLUSM DEVELOPMENTS . There was considerable discussion of duplexes, apartments , single family homes , floating zone for apartments , etc . fMrs . Holcomb was concerned that our R- 15 zones in the old Ordinance and the proposed Ordinance allow apartments in a single family dwelling , Because of the ambiguity in re size of that / r � 7 r Town of Ithaca Planning. Board October 10 , 1972 • apartment we are really allowingduplexes . Mr . H ' k p it er 1s in an R- 15 and he is essentially building duplexes . Could we devise a sub - zone ? We would allow in an P.r15 zone a single family dwelling with an apartment which is no more than 30% of the size of the house . . Where the apartment is going to be more than 30% the size- of the house , we would require an additional amount of land ( over 15 , 000 sq . ft . ) for that particular house , but not as much as twice 15 , 000 sq . ft . Mr . Francese suggested that if a lot is 15 , 000 sq . £ t . one cannot have an apartment over one - third of the size , If it is over one - third , they have to have 20 , 000 sq . ft . of land . Mr . Slack pointed out that the number of automobiles is not changed by the size of the dwelling unit . Should parking not be a consideration? Should any house with an apartment be required to be on a lot of more than 15 , 000 sq . ft . ? What about requiring off - street parking for three cars , or all cars ? This suggestion met with general approval . There was discussion of the use of the 50% requirement as in the present Ordinance and the use of the word " basement " . It was decided that i :E the new Ordinance changed the wording of the present Article IV , Ser. . 11 , # 2 to omit the words B ° except where the second dwelling unit is constructed entirely within the basement area it may exceed 50% ` ° we would have a clear situation i e , houses with apartments which are 50% or less the size of the dwelling unit would be allowed in Rr15 . Houses with apartments more than 50% the size of the house would not be allowed but something of this sort could be built undue the provisions for clustering in R� 15 . I The meeting was adjourned at 10 ° 25 p . m . respectfully submitted , Nancy M. Fuller , Acting- Secretary .