HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB Minutes 1972-08-22 •r
i TOT-TN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD
August 22 , 1972
= The regular meeting of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board
was held on Tuesday , August 22 , 1972 , in the Town Offices at lag East
Green Street , Ithaca , New York , at 7 : 30 p . m .
PRESENT : Robert Scannell , Sam Slack , Robert Christianson ,
Fred Scott , Arnold Albrecht , Peter Francese ( Planning Consultant ) ,
and David Cowan ( Zoning Officer) .
ALSO PRESENT : Mr . Neil Hertz , 250 Culver Road and a
representative of WHCU Radio ,
The members of the Planning Board expressed their deep
sorrow and sympathy for Chairman Barbara Holcomb upon hearing of the
death of her feather this evening .
Peter Francese chaired the meeting and called it to order
at 7e45 p . m .
REPORT OF PARK COUNCIL
Mr . Francese wished to give the report from the Park Council .
He stated that there had been received a very good appraisal of the
land in Coy Glean and Lick Brook . If the land can be purchased the
Town puts up half and the Federal Government half , If there is any
donation of lan.d. to the Town , the value of the donated land is
deducted from the Town ' s share . Mr . Francese stated that the Town
Board feels that the amount is reasonable . However , the Town Board
does have some questions , for example , there are presently no regula=
tions covering Town parks and just what do we do with a park after
we get it .
Mr . Francese felt that this is the place for the Park Council
to get involved . He feels that the Park Council can be involved here
in another way . Mr . Francese said that he has a list of approximately
35 people who oim the land in Lick Brook and Coy Glen . He suggested
that the Park Council could delicately approach these people and ask
them to donate the land . He mentioned that there is a Mrs . Berger
who is on the Park Council and who is also a member of the Nature
Conservancy . Mr . Francese suggested also that there could be volun=
Leers from the lark Council who could establish just who on the list
of property owners they snow personally . He stated further that the
Par'; Council could also be involved with the regulation of the Park .
Another possibility is to ask the Mature Conservancy to buy up the
land outright . Mr . Francese said he would contact Mrs . Valentino and
he suggested that Mr . Frank Eldridge should be involved with any
meeting of the Park Council .
REPORT OF THE ZONING OFFICER
Mr . David Cowan reported that the Zoning Board of Appeals
will be meeting next 0 Wednesday , August 30 , 1972 , to hear the appeal
of Ruben Weiner to wI L - aw fill for his Trailer Park in the City .
Mr . Cowan stated that Mr . Weiner will remove top soil and then replace
0t and sod the area ' before snow .
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Town of Ithaca. PlanningBoard 2
em August 22 , 1972
Mr . Cowan said that the . second part of the meeting will be
• the hearing of Mr . lLur :i. ce Marion ' s appeal for rezoning so he can
build a greenhouse . There will be a third part of the meeting which
Mr . Cowan wished to discuss later .
GFAVEL PIT OPEMTION
Mr . ]4rance8e wished to discuss with the Planning Board some
ideas and mate :cial for a gravel pit ordinance . He stated that there
are some thing ;; which cannot be in an ordinance that are in a Court
Order directly related to Coy Glen . With regard to Coy Glen , there
can be limits stet up and also this excavation can continue for say
five year , and then the land must be seeded to grass ;
Mr . Neil hertz asked if there were not an ordinance in the
Town that denies gravel pit operation . 11r . Francese stated that there
was not. an ordinance denying ;ravel pit operations .
Mr . Cowan stated furt=her that the Zoning Ordinance states
that all that is needed is a 6 Omit from the Zoning Board of Appeals .
The Coy Glen Gravel operation does not havet his perMit .
PI ANNING CONSULTANT
Mr . Francese stated that he had two more items for discussion ,
Zoning and ( 2) Parking ,
• ( 1 ) ZONING
Mr . Francese outlined some of the items that: he felt should
be in the new zoning ordinance ,
With reference to apartments , Mr . Francese indicated that he
felt that there are enough apartments in some area , of the Town . Ile
recalled for the: members of the Planning Board Mr . Otto Schoenfeld ° s
plans . At one gime the Planning Board agreed to row houses in his
subdivision if he did not increase the density , and Mr . Schoenfeld
said that he would just build single family houses . .
It was 11ir . Francese ' s contention that there should be tF7o
residential areas in the Town rather ehan one ,
He at
i lan"ling Board should designate an area whatever they �want tedtwhenthe they
feel that an area is dense enough .
Mr . Sam Slack asked how could you do that in one ar
then not: do it in another ? ea and
Mr . Francese stated that the residential zone as the Planning
Board has conceived it is fine then the Planning Board looks at a
,proposal on its merits . But , then the Zoning Ordinance should read
wouldsuch and such n . area is zoned Rd 30 and any bids for apartments
would �e tuy-ned cioe-,m .
e Mr . Robert: Scannell stated - -..
that he agreed in concept with the
Planning Consultant completely , but he simply did - not know what
criteinla we should use for such decision malting , He recalled the
Proposal of Mr . Herbert Mahr favorably and his suggestions for a town
Tovn of Ithaca. Planning Board m3 � August 22 , 1972
concept with specific areas with specific purposes ,
• i�. 0 Sam Slack stated that he thought that this was being
done by the Planning Board all along .
Mr . Scannell pointed out that it means that the Planning
Board would be deciding now what places will be in the future .
Mr . Slackasked if there is a requirement that the Planning
Board must see a detailed plan '
Mrs :Erancese said there is such a requirements He stated
further that t''lle Planning Board should channel development in those
areas cohere Tye see a need .
Mr . Scannell reit
of land . erated that we must have criteria for use
Mr . Slack stated that if we have been operating, this way ,
we are way behind the 'times . Mr . Scannell ag�Peed .
M?: . Albrecht said that perhaps it would be a good idea to
e e e
Indicate in shading on a map the density of various areas .
Mr . 'Slack thought that this might include sewer , water ,
lighting , roads , etc .
• Mr . Scannell agreed that these items should all be taker
into cons ideraiCion and that is wily there has been no effort to wTflte
these criteria .
Hr + Albrecht thought that criteria must be based on what is
to come , and Mr Slack added that there muss: be some judgments made ,
everything cannot be written down ; Mr . Scannell felt that that is
the way everything has been goi;.zg m all on judgment .
Pyr . F rancese then asked the Planning Board if they wished
him to work on the criteria , or would they like to see botch, approaches
om perhaps a zone .
Mr . Scannell indicated that he would like very much to see
the Planning Consultant wo��lik on the criteria angle , too .
M.L . Christianson wondered if the -ze could be an overlay
type of set up to go oveL the map showing what we now have . This
overlay might ;indicate a red flag area meaning " too dense " .
Mr . Francese said that one problem he has is that we have
only one residence zone . He said that he is putting criteria side by
s �. de to see If they are consistent . Mr . Francese stated that the
Planning Board cannot say that this area cannot be further developed
because it is too deme .
.•ti a e e e
Mr . Christianson: asked i /. it were not the 3 ob of the Planning
Board to . ask the question what do we want the Tot-m to be ?
r
y` TowTLi of Ithaca Planning Board = 4 August 22 , 1972
Mr . Francese said yes . For eiaample , tale ?he West Hill
• area . IL as farms now . What do we want, to be happening there ?
Mr . Christianson staged that he could not see a whole area
of one family houses . it would be very dull , as well as uneconomical .
With or without the Zoning Ordinance , things are going to develop and
he expressed deep concern about the strip development going on in
this Town , that is , a road with houses built might 61traignt along it .
Mx . Christianson commented vigourously that he would like to see ,
above all , is a continuation of gree-a .
Mr . Francese then stated that he expects that the Flapping
Board will have a special meeting in September and have more on the
Zoning Ordinance ,
( 2) PAIS UNG ON TOWN ANIS . COUI�'Y ROAD
Mr . Francese now turned to the second past of the items he
washed to discuss at this meeting .
Ile stated that there has been a movement to create a " No
Parking," zone on Pleasant Grove Road which is a County road . It was
asked why not put in " No Pa.LXinry signs , and it was said that this
cannot be done because a puling from the Town Board is needed .
14r . Cowan. pointed out here , .that there is an Ordinance
dated' September 26th , 1961 , which spells out specific rule ; for no
parking areas . It designates certain roads . The problem , of course ,
as enforcement: . This same ordinance was revised 2:n .1963 to include
more specific streets, Mr . Cowan suggested than: an amendment to this
ordinance could include a request to the County to include those
County roads in the Town . Ile said that we do not need a new ordinance ,
we simply need to amend the present ordinance . All the Town roads
could be in a Town wide ordinance ,
Mr . Slack stated that on fine Tree Road whenever anyone
has a panty all the caps are ticketed
' by the Sheriff . Ile went on to
say that one of the worst roads in the Town of Ithaca as the State
Street Exten3aon out to the Town Line just this side of Marion 's
stand .
Mx . Christianson stated that it was his feeling that
neither the Town nor the County owes anybody a panting space ,
Several suggestions were made for an ordinance such as no
parking signs between arro�--Js , no parking when at snows , tow away
zones .
Map . icott felt that the rules should depend on just what
road you are talking about . For instance , a dead� end is quite
diffebent from say Slatervalle Road .
• eMr . Francese wondered if there might be anything else that
the Planning Board would line to see in a parking ordinance .
Mr . Christianson wondered just what is a reasonable time
for a person not to be able to get into his drive�Jay ? Ile said he was
Totrm of Ithaca. Planning Board m5d August 22 , 1972
refe��ring to :hose people who consistently park on the street i4hen
Mr . 1 coat felt that enforcement has to he done with judgment .
MIN OF ITHACA vs . FUIYOEY� ITMCA
Ms . :t wrancese c-isl 1 to speak bLiefly on the gravel pit
operation In the Town . He had a list of things that Mrs . Constance
Cool , AssemblT,-ioman , has come up with as a pos sibillty of what could
be in a Court order .
Mr . Scannell stated that he thought that the list was great
but that the Planning Board must tie it down mote specifically .
Mr . Scott said t1:at a person could put the. Town off by
Saying that he is going back to his site and dig there in a year or
so .
Mr . Christianson felt that without regulation there could be
a terrible blight placed on the land .
Mr . Albrecht pointed out that the boundaries of a gravel
pis operation are determined by the slope requited . The Town decides
the slope and thus determines the extent of the operation .
• Mr . Cowan expressed his opinion_ that the present Zoning
Otdin a=ce does ,give adequate safeguards providing the Town Board
does its job . section 70 is very clear but then the Town Board Must
write down exactly what an operator can or cannot do .
Mr . F :Pan.cese wondered if there is any way that Mr . Weiner
could be told that because the Planning Board is coming up with
certain standards lie must be referred to them ?
Mr . Cowan indicated that Mr . Weiner is in quite a rush .
Ir . Albrecht said that we need a form for this , ort of
application . He: wondered if there is anything in the Ordinance that
states just what: . a an operator has to do with the land itself .
Mr . Cowan indicated that this will be done very carefully
W2.Lh Ruben Weiner ' s appeal . He also stated that there is another
thing that can be done in connection w1th keeping gravel operations
in line , If there io anything not done by the operator as required ,
then the permit is rescinded ,
Mr . Francese wondered about the possibility of a Performance
Bond for Weiner ,
Mr . Cowan thought that this could be done . As for Weiner
• , Mr . Cowan stated that he has told Mr . Weiner that he will have to 9
sod the land bac., to a hay field and he agreed .
Mr. Francese suggested a $ 10 , 000 . 00 Bond to put it back -
that would be for 50 acres working out to a figure of approximately
Tow1 of lthac,a Planning Board MG = August 22 , 1972
200 . 00 an ac ;ce ,
Mr . Sam Slack stated that he did not see a whole lot more
that can be written into this Section of the Ordinance that is not
already there .
Mr . Albrecht stated than: it was his op =inion that it is not
a matter of enforcing , it is a matter of spelling things out at the
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talme of 0:pplic:ation .
Mr . Christianson suggested that one thing be changed in the
Section . The words Zoning Board should be Planning Board of Town
Board .
Mr . Francese asF; ed MZ . Co� Yan just Iloe-a could the Board of
Zoning Appeals come up with this by next Wednesday , August 30 ?
Mr . Cowan =�zdicated that this is noir an application for
the operation of a Gravel Bank . It does not have to be that tight .
Mr . clam Slack asked Mr . Cowan exactly what he would want
to see changed in the present Ordinance .
Mr . Cowan stated that he wojld like to see only one change ,
i . e . , the one word from Zoning Board to Town Board .
Mr . AScannell reiterated that he thought that all this is
great but it must be attended to . It has never been spelled out ,
ADJO`PEUREIT
Mr . Francese adjourned the meeting at 9 : 30 p . m .
Respectfully submitted
Nancy M. Fuller , ActingaSecretary
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