HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB Minutes 1972-03-21 r
a TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD
March 21 , 1972
• The rE'. ular meeting g of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board was
held on Tuesday , March 21 , 1972 , at 7 : 30 p . m . in the Town of Ithaca
Offices , 108 East Green Street , Ithaca , New York ,
PRESENT : Chairman Barbara Holcomb , Dan Baker , Robert
Scannell , Robert Christianson , Fred Scott , Sam Slack , Peter Francese
( Planning Consultant ) .
ABSENT : Maurice Harris , Arnold Albrecht .
The meeting was brought to order by Mrs . Holcomb at 7 . 45 p . m .
There were 15 people present in the audience .
APPROVAL OF MINUTES .
The first order of business was the approval of past minutes .
Mrs . Holcomb amended the minutes of the December 21st , 1971 ,
meeting as follows :
Page 1 , paragraph 5 , the last sentence should read . . . " various
aspects of planning , and will act as an Advisory Board to the County
Planner . "
Page 1 , paragraph 7 , the next to the last sentence , the word
" donate " should be changed to " allocate" .
A MOTION was made by Robert Christianson and seconded by
Fred Scott to approve the minutes of the December 21st , 1971 , meeting
as corrected . The motion was unanimously carried .
Mrs . Holcomb amended the minutes of the January 4th , 1972,
meeting as follows :
Page 3 , paragraph 1 , should read : " Discussion was held , and
. Mr . Fracnese reported that requests for proposals for engineering
design on the proposed new road were being prepared . When completed
the proposals would go to the Cornell Board of Trustees for approval. .
Construction . could possibly begin within six months . "
A MOTION was made by Robert Christianson and seconded by
Sam Slack to approve the minutes of the January 4th , 1972 , meeting
as corrected . The motion was unanimously carried .
Mrs . Holcomb amended the minutes of the January 18th , 1972 ,
meeting as follows :
Page 1 , under PRESENT : should be added Robert Christianson .
Page 2 , paragraph 1 , under HAUSNER PROPOSAL : the last sentence
•t should read : " lit is doubtful that the Planning Board has authority in
this matter at all . "
A MOTION was made by Mr . Christianson and seconded by Fred
Scott to approve the minutes of the January 18th , 1972 , meeting as
corrected . The motion was unanimously carried .
Mrs . Holcomb amended the minutes of the February 8th , 19721$
meeting as follows :
•
Page 2 paragraph 1 , add to the end of the first sentence " for
Marine Midland ,
A MOTION was made by Fred Scott and seconded by Sam Slack to
approve the minutes of the February 8th , 1972 , meeting as corrected .
The motion was unanimously carried .
PARK COUNCIL REPORT ,
Mr . Christianson had no report .
ZONING OFFICER REPORT ,
The Zoning Officer was not present .
PLANNING CONSULTANT REPORT ,
Mr . Francese reported with reference to Mat Associates and the
South Hill project . He stated that it would appear that they have
totally dropped the Shopping Center project . Mr . Fracnese will con -
tinue to try to talk to them . Mrs . Holcomb asked that Mr . Francese
keep in touch with the matter .
410Mrs . Holcomb asked Mr . Francese what the status was of the
tax map of the Town of Ithaca to go on the wall . Mr . Francese stated
that he is clearing the matter with the custodian of the City Hall .
Mrs . Holcomb asked if the members of the Planning Board had
been over their :roads in their areas . Some had travelled the roads .
The others will in the very near future .
SCHICKEL PROPOSAL:, FOR HONNESS LABR, ,
Mr . Norbert Schickel was present at the meeting and presented
a proposal to the Planning Board for a development near Honness Lane .
A copy of this proposal and map is hereby attached and made a part of
the Minutes ,
The map and proposal were passed among the audience . There
were questions from the Board members for clarification such as access
roads and alternate roads , existing roads , adjoining property , slope
of land , drainage . There was a specific request for a topography map
of the land so as to be sure of the drainage .
Mr . Francese will send a request to Mr . Liquori , County
Planner , for comment , since the development is within 5001 of the Town
line . Mr . Schickel will send notices to the other adjoining munici -
palities and neighbours . Mr . Sehickel has already spoken with Cornell
University ,
Mrs . Holcomb declared that the meeting was now open to the
public for discussion ,
Mrs . LiNresays Mr . Schickel , will you be coming in with a
proposal for a particular development , such as schematic drawings , at
. t
• the April 4th meeting of the Planning Board ?
Mr . Schickel replied , " No . " This will be only a proposal for
a re - zoning to R - 10 at the public hearing . He prefers to leave it to
the Planning Board to reject the plans at any point along the line .
Mrs . Livesay said to Mr . Schickel that she would hope that he
would bear in mind that the development would be a half -mile walk from
Belle Sherman School . She would like to see a pedestrian walk for the
children . Cornell owns the right of way that the children walk on now .
She added at this point , a strong recommendation that Cornell Universi -
ty give this right - of - way to the Board of Education . She was also
concerned about the handling of cars for the people that would live in
this development once they are out of the development , where do they
goy
Mrs . Cassel pointed out that this would almost double the
traffic . She feels that there is no provision now for residents and
how they can walk around . She would like to see some concentration on
walkers too and not always cars .
Mrs . Holcomb asked about the density of this development .
Mr . Francese said that the usual format is that in R - 15 there could
be 6 double houses or 3 single . R- 10 was usually 172 per acre . Mr .
Schickel is proposing 92 to 10 units per acre .
• A lady from the floor asked how high the buildings would be .
Mr . Schickel replied that they would not be over two storeys high .
Mrs . Holcomb stated that under the present ordinance no more
than two storeys is permitted .
A gentleman from the floor wanted a clarification of his
thinking . He repeated that the proposal is only to re - zone . This was
verified by Mr . Francese ,
Mr . Schickel stated that the buildings will be owned by the
persons living :in them . The condominiums will run around $ 25 . 000 . 00
to $ 30 , 000 . 00
Mr . Slack reiterated the importance of drainage . He said that
there has been ,some flooding on Honness Lane down to Slaterville Road ,
A MOTION was . made by Mr . Scannell to hold a Public Hearing on
the proposal to re - zone the proposed 16 acres to R - 10 on the under -
standing that Mr . Schickel will notify all the residents adjoining ,
the City of Ithaca , and Cornell University of the April 4th meeting .
The Motion was seconded by Mr . Christianson and passed unanimously .
EASTERN HEIGHTS REQUEST FOR RE- ZONING ,
Mrs . Holcomb gave the background to this present request from
Eastern Heights for a re - zoning of their parcel on Snyder Hill Road to
a multiple residence zone . In 1968 there was also a proposal from
Eastern Heights to build an apartment complex . At that time the Town
Board passed a resolution on that proposal . The resolution reads :
1
May 12 , 1969 - " A motion was made by Councilman DelRosso and
seconded by Supervisor Kerr that this hearing be tabled without date
until a land usage study is completed .'
Mrs . Holcomb stated that the Town Board has asked that the
Planning Board look at this project again as a new project .
Mr . Manley Thaler , attorney , was present and represented
Eastern Height; . He stated that the proposal is exactly the same as
the 1968 proposal . There are 24 , 4 acres of land , 5 acres of which are
for public park,, leaving 19 . 4 acres . There will be 13 . 4 units per
acre which is a, total of 260 units .
There was some discussion of the park area . The park area
shown on the 1968 proposal was a requirement of the Planning Board as
a condition to the approval of the Eastern Heights subdivision on the
other side of the road ,
Mr . I , Stanley Goldberg , who accompanied Mr . Thaler , stated
that the commercial area is no longer a part of this pro-»
posal , He stated that , as in the Schickel matter , this proposal would
also be submitted as a request for re - zoning ,
Mrs , Beverly Livesay from the floor asked about roads in
connection with this apartment complex .
Mr . Thaler replied that there has been no provision
• made for new roads . He also stated that it was his understanding that
Cornell University is not interested in developing a road across their
land ,
A question from the floor as to how many buildings per acre .
Mr . Thaler replied that the buildings are contiguous . Each row is a
separate building . He did not say how many rows there would be .
There was a request from the floor that the Planning Board
consider the subsequent density in this area as a result of the
Schickel proposal , the Goldberg proposal and the Monkmeyer development ,
It was further requested plat the Planning Board give thought to the
congestion ,
Mrs . Holcomb 0. they would , indeed .
It was asked from the floor at what stage is this proposal ?
Mrs , Fol comb stated that it is unclear to the Planning Board
what the correct, steps are . How do they take this matter up from the
table ? `_he ' lann_ng Board would prefer to go through the whole process
again . Mrs , Holcomb felt that the Public Hearings should be held again ,
Mr , Christianson asked Mr . Thaler if they could be prepared to
meet at a Tit.-,;� 1 ,_ c +_ 0,al ng on the 4th of April , 1972 ? Mr . Thaler said
thcvt L'-hey cou d , They have a land use plan and could be prepared at any
time .
I.. s . Livesay wsked if this project could be built in stages .
For instance , the number of units for an R - 15 zone could be built and
leave the rest until the traffic problem can be alleviated .
Mr . Thaler replied that the plan was in phases - so many units
• at a time .
Mrs . Li. vesay repeated that she would still like to see each
phase limited to the number an R - 15 zone will allow , She was very
adamant in saying that some answer must be found to the traffic problem .
A MOTION was made by Mr . Scannell : I move that we place this
on the Agenda for the April 4th , 1972 , Town of Ithaca Planning Board
Meeting ,
Mr . Christianson seconded the Motion . Discussion followed
whereby it was established that Mr . Francese will notify the Ithaca
Journal , Mr . Liquori , Eastern Heights will notify the neighbouring
property owners , and the Town of Dryden .
A vote was taken and the Motion passed unanimously .
SPEED LIMITS .
The question before the Planning Board is whether to approach
the speed limits -piece -meal or consider the Town as a whole .
Mrs , . Holcomb recalled for the Planning Board how they were
going to approach this problem , particularly Honness Lane and Judd Falls
Road . One answer would be to request an area Speed Zone . A letter
from the Department of Transportation listing criteria considered when
a speed limit change was requested .
Mrs . Holcomb read a letter referring to the Muriel Street -
Tareyton Road expansion of an Area Speed Zone in 1966 ,
Mr . Dan. Baker stated that he felt that the Town roads are too
narrow , They arse 17 feet in some cases ,
Mr . Scannell stated that it was his feeling that people do not
want to put in sidewalks ,
It was also stated from the floor that a solution might be to
prevail upon Assemblywoman Constance Cook to draft legis7. ati. on whereby
the right of a community to designate its own speed limits could be
returned to the community . Some people felt that this would be diffi -
cult because some towns put in inadequate speed restrictions merely to
" catch " travelers and make some money .
Mr . Francese stated that Mr . Schwan has talked with Mrs . Cook
in an attempt to have the Town of Ithaca designated as a Suburban Town .
Mrs , Holcomb stated that this apparently will not be done this year .
Mrs . Li. vesay claimed firmly that the Department of Transporta -
tion is wrong . The State Highway Law states that highways are for
pedestrians and bicycles , except as specifically prohibited as on the
New York Thruway . She said that the first job of the Town of Ithaca is
to tell the Department of Transportation that they are in violation ,
In addition , they Town should cite the death on Honness Lane and the
bad accident on Mitchell Street .
r • .
Mrs . Holcomb asked the Planning Board what they would think of
the proposal that we try the request for a 35 m . p . h ,, area speed " limit in
the area of East Ithaca including Honness Lane , Snyder Hill Road to
Pine Tree Road , etc ,
Mrs . Livesay suggested from the floor the area be bounded by
Route 79 and Rotate 366 , but not including them , and from the Town Line
to the City . Line .
Mr . Scannell stated that he firmly felt as, he. has for two years
that the Planning Board should stick to a request for the entire Town of
Ithaca .
Mrs , Holcomb asked this - If we propose for the whole Town , wil
they be selective , or will they say we do not agree with this or that
and reject the whole thing ?
From the floor it was suggested that there could be a study
made by the local residents personally . Mrs . Holcomb said that this
was not useful because the State will do their own study .
Another question from the floor was is there no recourse ?
Mrs , Holcomb said there was - you re - submit the proposals .
Mr . Francese said that he would personally go to Syracuse to
discuss all these types of questions with the Department of Transpor -
tation . He felt strongly that there must be a way of enforcing any
speed zones that are enacted , i . e . , Town Police .
A gentleman from the audience stated that it would seem better
to get a piece here and a piece there and then go at it as a whole Town .
Mr . Francese suggested that the Planning Board ask some people
from the State Department of Transportation to come to the meeting on
the 4th of April or the 18th of April to answer questions .
Mrs . Livesay pointed out from the floor that the Town of
Dryden went through this Just recently and that most probably it would
do no good at all . The representatives , she felt , are very wishy -washy
and gave no particular answers to anything .
A MOTION was made by Mr . Sam Slack . I move that we proceed
with a request for a lowering of the Speed Limit to 35 miles per hour
within the area delineated by Routes 79 and 366 ( but not including
Route ?9 or 366 ) and from the Dryden Town Line to the City of Ithaca
Line with supporting evidence of accidents , deaths , new shopping centre
density , pedestrian traffic , bicycles and four proposed multiple
residence developments . The Motion was seconded by Mr . Fred Scott .
A discussion followed . Mr . Scannell repeated that he still
feels the Town a.; a whole is the best approach . It was also noted
that this Motion will be presented to the Town Board on April 10th ,
1972 .
,• A vote was taken and the Motionb assed majority with Mr .
P Y ma� Y
Scannell abstaining .
c business .-
Mrs . . Holcomb then asked if there was any further official
Mr . Christianson asked if he could bring to the attention of
the Planning Board the fact that there is available for a $ 10 . 00 fee
from the Professional Builders Assoc . a Mobile Home Park Planning Kit ,
Mr . Christianson asked for permission and was granted the same to
send for this kit . Mr . Francese said that he would re - imburse Mr .
Christianson for the fee .
Mr . Sam Slack stated that he would like to make an official
request to Mr . Stevenson of the County Department of Public Works to
study the feasibility of putting a Stop sign on the Mitchell Street
Extension and the Judd Falls Road intersection and another Stop sign
at the Pine Tree Road and Ellis Hollow Road intersection . Mrs . Holcomb
will follow up on this request .
ADJOURNMENT .
The meeting was adjourned by the Chair at 9 *045. p . m . The
Planning Board :remained in session for discussion privately until
11 : 00 P . M .
Respectfully submitted ,
Nancy M . Fuller ,
49 Acting-Secretary .
Proposal for a New Residential Community in the Town of Ithaca
The Schick:el Environmental Development Company proposes to develop
in the Town of Ithaca a planned residential community to be known as
Eastwood Commons .
There is considerable interest throughout the country in some newer
forms of home ownership , such as condominiums , townhouses , and
PUD ( Planned Unit Developments ) , What they offer is single - family
home ownership with planned open space and recreation facilities owned
and maintained in common through an automatic Homeowners ' Associa -
tion, The result is more amenities than would be possible on the indi -
vidual basis of a regular single - family subdivision, a greater sense of
community , freedom from exterior maintenance , considerable inherent
cost saving , and certain tax benefits .
Eastwood Commons would be developed on a 16 acre tract of land off
Honness Lztne and adjacent to the Eastwood area of the City of Ithaca .
The property is under option from the owner , Enos Pyle . Eastwood
Commons , when completed , would consist of 150 dwelling units with
four units per building , within carefully planned open spaces and re -
creation facilities . It would be built in stages over a five - year period .
rt® The first stage would consist of about 40 homes .
This site was chosen after a careful and detailed analysis of some 31
sites in various parts of the county . We believe that the site is ideally
suited to a :planned unit development of the character and density indi -
cated and that such a use is consistent with and a fulfillment of the
master plan concepts proposed for the development of the Town of Ithaca .
The residents of Eastwood Commons will be about 2 miles from the Cor -
nell " B " parking lot , one mile from the new shopping center on Judd
Falls Road , 2 . 5 miles from Ithaca College and major industry , 1 . 5
miles from Rothchild ' s corner , and less than a half mile walk from the
new Belle Sherman Elementary School . The site is a sunny south and
west slope , with a wonderful view of Ithaca College and the surrounding
hills .
Since we do not presently have a PUD provision in the zoning ordinance ,
we propose to proceed under the multi - family section of the ordinance .
Therefore , to make this development possible , the Schickel Environ-
mental Development Company hereby requests that the Planning Board
of the Town of Ithaca recommend that the zoning of the property be
changed from R 15 to multi - family , and that the change be conditional
upon approval of the site plan of Eastwood Commons by the Planning
Board and the Town Board .
I �
. 2
We further request that a date for the required public hearing be set
for April 4 , 1972 , as our schedule calls for a start of construction
of the models by fall and there is a great deal to be accomplished
between now and then.
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