HomeMy WebLinkAboutTB Minutes 2007-04-26 April 26, 2007 Special Town Board Meeting
Approved May 7, 2007
Special Meeting of the Ithaca Town Board
Thursday , April 26 , 2007 at 7 : 00 p . m .
215 North Tioga Street, Ithaca , NY 14850
THOSE PRESENT : Councilman Burbank , Councilwoman Gittelman , Councilman Engman ,
Councilman Stein , Councilwoman Leary
STAFF PRESENT : Tee-Ann Hunter, Town Clerk ; Dan Walker, Town Engineer; Fred
Noteboom , Highway Superintendent
EXCUSED : Supervisor Valentino , Councilman Cowie
OTHERS PRESENT : Guy Krogh , Attorney for the Town
CALL TO ORDER
Councilman Burbank called the meeting to order at 5 : 300 p . m . and led the assemblage in the
Pledge of Allegiance .
Councilman Burbank told those present that the meeting was called to address one issue that
needed to be dealt with in a timely manner . He told those present that the meeting was not a
public hearing , but if there was someone wanting to informally address the Board Mr.
Burbank invited them to do so . There was no one wanting to address the Board .
Consider Authorization to enter into a contract with an Engineering Consultant for the
Northeast Ithaca Stormwater Management and Drainage Studv
Councilman Burbank began stating the issue under consideration is hiring a consultant
relative to stormwater management . There is a recommendation from the committee , which
Mr . Burbank invited Mr. Engman to present .
Councilman Engman reported that the Town is looking to hire a consultant in order to get
some more information on the potential effects of the development , Briarwood 11 , on
downstream neighbors and to double check a lot of the data and calculations that were done
by the developer in proposing the project . The committee did meet . They had two excellent
submissions . Three other firms decided not to submit because of time constraints ; they
figured they would not be able to do the job in the rather fast timeline the Town has given
them . The timeline is about six weeks after the contracts are signed . Mr. Engma. n stated he
thought he could speak for the committee in reporting they thought both firms who did submit
would be able to do the job . One , however, they thought would be able to do the job better
because they do have some more experienced staff on board ; they seem to have had more
experience in dealing with stormwater discharge and modeling ; and they also carne in about
$ 1 , 000 cheaper. In the materials distributed to the Board there was an estimate from the
preferred firm of $ 17 , 500 . The proposal before the Board tonight is to create a budget line of
$ 18 , 000 to fund the project . The committee is recommending Malone and MacBroom from
Cheshire , Connecticut be hired to conduct the project . Mr. Engman invited other members of
the committee to speak .
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Mr. Stein stated he agreed with Mr. Engman . It seemed clear to Mr. Stein that there is more
to water than detention ponds . He thought that carefully reading the backgrounds of the
people from MacBroom and Malone , as well as the experience of the firm , makes him believe
that is the better choice .
Councilman Engman moved the resolution prepared for consideration . Councilman Stein
seconded the motion .
Mr. Burbank recognized a member of the audience wanting to address the Board .
Stephen Wagner came forward and addressed the Board as follows :
I merely wanted to inquire whether a letter that we had sent this afternoon to the committee
members had reached them in time.
Board members responded that they had not yet received the letter and asked that he give
the essence of his concern .
Essentially these are some of our concerns that we 've outline with regard to the scope of the
work and the way some aspects of the study could be addressed. It may have no bearing on
your decision tonight, but I was wondering if it was something that you might be able to
consider when the actual contract with the consultant is drawn up.
Mr. Wagner then read the following letter, addressed to the 3 members of the Northeast
Stormwater Study Committee , into the record :
We very much appreciate the efforts of the Ithaca Town Board to address concerns regarding
the impact of Briarwood I and proposed Briarwood 11 developments on downslope drainage
issues. Both bidders have indicated they are aware that many residents of the neighborhood
have claimed they're experiencing problems with drainage. Nevertheless, they do not clearly
tell us how they will document and assess those claims. We fee it is important to allocate
more time to collecting and assessing information from residents. Though clearly the
drainage issues are of concern and are explicitly addressed by the bidders, the drainage
issues are also very much connected to the development's impact on the wetlands. At the
Ithaca Town Board meeting on March 12, 2007, professor Todd Walter spoke as an
independent expert witness on drainage issues. Professor Walter, an internationally
recognized hydrologist who is conducting hydrological research n the area, concluded that
the area around Sapsucker Woods is hydrologically sensitive because it is so flat and does
not drain vertically very well, thus it will naturally accumulate soil and ground water, often to
the point of saturating to the surface and generating runoff. Additional development will
compound these natural runoff problems and the persistence of a shallow groundwater table
will probably make detention basins ineffective. Aggressive drainage may facilitate
engineered solutions to the runoff problems, but will likely alter the areas hydrology in the
process which may have detrimental impacts on the natural wetlands. He states early in his
written report that, ` I speculate the prolonged drainage of the groundwater by the current
development may be making the proposed development site appear less prone to saturation
and flooding than it is Given his expertise, we feel it is important that the bidders meet with
professor Walter very early in the assessment process to discuss and understand his
perspective. As professor Walter points out in his presentation to the town, thought he
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considered the stormwater system well designed by traditional engineering standards, in a
similar area he has been studying it was completely overwhelmed by 1/10 of design flow. We
strongly recommend that bidders be asked to address professor Walter's concerns in their
plans and report. Finally, we suggest that members of the committee and concerned
residents of the area attend a preliminary meeting with the contractor. This will insure that
everyone be heard and the contractor begins with a broad understanding of the problems and
concerns.
Thank you again for considering our concerns and for the continued attention to these
problems.
Mr . Burbank thanked Mr. Wagner. Mr. Burbank stated that he did not see community
meetings as part of the resolution in front of the Board . Mr. Engman stated there is a
community meeting indicated , but it is later in the process . He suggested the Board may
consider is a mechanism in the contract for getting community input early . Mr. Engman
reported that Dan Walker has said he will provide the consultant with all of the materials the
Town has . Mr. Engman stated his assumption is , if the Town has a copy of Mr. Walker' s
report , that could be included in the materials .
Councilman Stein stated that they had made a file of all of the complaints they have seen
about water in the area . He intended to make those available to make those available to the
consultant . He thought the notion that they talk to the hydrologist is a good one and he did
not see any problem with it .
Ms . Leary felt a good place for mention of a community meeting within the contract would be
under the scope of services on the project kick-off meeting . The meeting would not just be
with staff but with Board members and residents .
Mr . Burbank asked for other comments . There were none . The Board voted on the
resolution before them .
TB RESOLUTION NO . 2007 -073 — Authorization to Enter into Contract with An
Engineering Consultant for the Northeast Ithaca Stormwater Management and
Drainage Study.
Whereas , Many residents of the Northeast Ithaca area have complained of existing drainage
problems , which they believe have been exacerbated by past development , including but not
limited to :
• Increased basement flooding
• Increase in soil saturation caused by higher water table
• Yard flooding
• Increased flows and flow duration in road ditches
• Damaged and washed out driveway culverts
• Dead trees presumably caused by soil saturation
• Increased flows in streams through their property
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Whereas . The Town Board wishes to retain the services of an engineering consultant to (a )
explore potential water resources related impacts related to the proposed development in
addition to peak flows of stormwater (such as possible changes in water table levels and
natural drainage courses utilizing existing information ) , ( b ) to evaluate the claims by residents
living in the vicinity of the Briarwood II development that past development in the Northeast
area has caused drainage problems , and their concerns that the proposed Briarwood II
development will exacerbate those problems , and (c) to evaluate the efficacy of the
Stormwater Management Plan submitted by the Developer and its likely impact on
downstream properties and to make recommendations for improvement .
Whereas , The Town board issued a Request for Proposals , which included the following
elements :
1 . The proposal from the consultant must include :
o Statement of qualification and experience in similar projects that include drainage and
water table issues in addition to stormwater management analysis and planning .
Identification of individuals to be assigned to the project and statement of qualifications
of individuals and resources assigned to the project .
Statement of general and technical approach , including a description of the
recommended process and considerations for completing the assessment .
a A preliminary estimate of cost and Time required to complete the report .
2 . The scope of work for the Evaluation will include :
a Review of current watershed and water resources related information
O Review of soils and geology of the area including available water table information
Review of water problem comments received from residents and an assessment of
whether or not proximate development has contributed to these problems
a Evaluation of the Proposed Briarwood Stormwater Management Plan
o Assessment of overall site design and Stormwater Management Concepts
o Evaluation of compliance with State stormwater management criteria
o Detailed analysis of hydrologic and hydraulic calculations
o Evaluation of the efficacy of proposed detention ponds given water tables in the
area
Evaluation of impacts of the proposed subdivision on the geohydrology of the area and
on drainage problems for upstream and downstream residents
Whereas , Milone and MacBroom , Cheshire , CT , have submitted a responsive proposal that
includes the elements of the RFP with a proposed fee of $ 16 , 500 plus direct expenses
estimated at $ 1 , 000 , for a total estimated cost of $ 17 , 500 , and
Whereas , the consultant selection committee has reviewed the proposal and qualifications of
Milone and MacBroom and has determined that they are a qualified and acceptable firm , now
therefore be it
RESOLVED , the Town Board of the Town of Ithaca authorizes the Town Supervisor to
execute a contract with Milone & MacBroom , Inc . , in an amount not to exceed $ 18 , 000 ,
for the Northeast Ithaca Stormwater Management and Drainage Study , said contract being
subject to the approval of the Attorney for the Town , and be it further
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RESOLVED , The funds for this project be transferred from the A Fund , Stormwater
Management Contractual Expenses Line , and that the Budget Officer is directed to modify
the budget to create a budget line A8540 . 485 with $ 18 , 000 to be transferred from the existing
budget line A8540 . 400 , reducing that budget line from $42 , 700 to $24 , 700 .
MOVED : Councilman Engman
SECONDED : Councilman Stein
VOTE : Councilman Burbank , aye ; Councilwoman Gittelman , aye ; Councilman Engman , aye ;
Councilman Stein , aye ; Councilwoman Leary , aye . Motion carried
ABSENT : Supervisor Valentino , Councilman Cowie
Benefit Districts — General Discussion
Guy Krogh was present at the meeting and Mr . Burbank asked for his comments on benefit
districts , specifically those related to drainage .
Mr. Krogh told the Board that drainage districts are permitted under both Article 12 and Article
12A in terms of benefit creation ; not under Article 12C . Article 12 does not work well for
drainage districts because usually they are created at the time that the subdivision or other
development is created so there ' s not much sense in having a single owner petition . Usually
you proceed on your own initiative under Article 12A . There is a detailed step-by-step
process that' s spelled out in the law . Basically it starts with doing a feasibility study to
determine if the area is appropriate for a drainage district ; what would be the benfitted
properties and where do you draw the boundaries . Very frequently , the subdivision itself is
the boundaries . The next step is to formally request , usually through an engineer or Town
Engineer , the map planning report . There are some very detailed requirements relative to
maps , plans , and reports concerning what the infrastructure will be , what the cost per e . d . u .
or per road frontage or per acre , however you decide to calculate the benefit . Usually they
are reasonably detailed documents , but that is subject to a referendum because it is an
expenditure of public funds and if for some reason the district is not formed then arguably you
have an expenditure of public funds for a private entity .
Mr. Burbank asked if it needed to be a townwide referendum . Mr. Krogh told him , yes . Mr,
Krogh stated he had never heard of it happening , whether they were lighting or water or
whatever, there ' s never been a referendum on the map , plan , and report , so you have a 30
day waiting period . After the 30 days a town almost simultaneously starts with the formal
district formation process which requires the creation and publication of an order and there
are specific findings that are set out in Town Law identifying what the cost of the
infrastructure is , what the estimated first year' s costs , etc . tend to be . You have very rigid
publication and other requirements to put people on notice , especially those that are
benefited . There ' s some open questions about how you put them on notice and whether
publication in enough . The order also has to schedule a public hearing and the notice must
be published not less than 10 nor more than 20 days before that public hearing . Then you
have a public hearing and take whatever input you want and you issue , depending upon what
the Comptroller' s thresholds are , and you don 't generally hit any with drainage districts
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because they have a very low first year cost because the cost of the installation of the
facilities for stormwater is usually a developer expense pursuant to a developer agreement
and drainage districts don 't generally have any maintenance in their first few years . It' s when
you get siltation or 100-year storm events that there is work that needs to be done . After the
public hearing , you can then , on a conditional basis , create the district . Again you have to
jump through a lot of hoops , make some specific findings as to what property is benefited ,
whether all benefited properties have been included in the district . That triggers another
permissive referendum period . You can make it a mandatory referendum but usually you
don 't because you have a single owner at that time and that' s the developer and usually the
creation of a district is a condition of the plat . At that point the district is formed subject to
notice and filing with the County Clerk and the State Comptroller who , if you don 't exceed
thresholds , has not jurisdictional authority but they are allowed to request whatever
documents they want . Usually they do so in response to any type of public objections or if
your procedure was just obviously bad . That' s sort of the process . The resolutions will be
very long . The underlying question that is really of a legislative nature is , how do you
manage a stormwater facility .
Mr . Engman asked Mr. Krogh to verify that the reason you would create a district is because
the cost of the drainage is more expensive than it normally would be for the Town and
therefore the residents should bear some of the cost. Mr . Krogh told him there were , in
theory two reasons to create a district . One is to comply with stormwater regulations . The
stormwater phase II regulations require that you have some way to insure that the permanent
practices are put into effect and that the district is properly maintained . If you had a
developer that signed a developer agreement and sold his last lot ten years ago , Mr . Krogh
was not sure how a town would get that developer to come back and do whatever
improvements or maintenance is necessary . So there is a stormwater compliance question
hiding in there . The second reason is that there are prohibitions against the use of public
money for purely private benefits . While Section 130 of the Town Law does consider flood
control a general public benefit you get to a really fine line as to whether or not you ' re
expending public funds to benefit one group of houses , therefore district allows you to make
improvements on drainage an other things and to charge that to the actual properties that are
benefited . Mr. Stein stated that was something he didn 't understand . The Town periodically
responds to complaints to residents by changing open ditches into pipes and that cost is
borne by the whole Town . Mr. Stein asked when do you charge it to the people in the
immediate area and when do you just bear all the expense Townwide . Mr. Krogh told him .
that was the legislative question he referenced earlier. Town Law is very clear that the
maintenance of ditches , prevention of flooding , and other things that the Town does not only
protects the subsurface infrastructure , water lines , sewer lines , etc . , but protects the surface
structures such as roads , signage , etc . Whether or not you live in that area it' s still
considered a general public benefit to have safe infrastructure and safe roads and to prevent
flooding generally within the Town . Preventing flooding and managing roadside ditches both
under Town Law and Highway Law is a general public purpose . So you can expend public
funds for that purpose . When you get into some of the nuances of stormwater management
you ' re talking about specific facilities hiding within subdivisions , some arguably have no
relation to protecting any infrastructure other than the stormwater facility and the immediate
neighbors . Mr. Krogh stated he thought you could go either way on the issues , but felt there
was a legislative question hiding in there for the Board to discern .
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Ms . Leary asked the Board if they were not talking about an area larger than the Briarwood
subdivision . Mr . Burbank responded , potentially and continued stating that part of where the
idea emerge is the fact that the Town has an existing development that was built many , many
years ago that is having drainage problems . The Town is wondering whether the corrective
costs are within the ability of the general Town to pay or whether some portion of it might
conceivably be born by the people that will bear the direct benefit . Mr . Krogh told him that
generally that determination is made in the map , plan , and report phase . You determine what
will be the benefited properties . If, at a public hearing , it is determined that there are fewer or
more benefited properties then you actually rewind , amend you map , plan and report , and
schedule another public hearing . There is a process whereby people can be included or
excluded . The only general requirement is that all benefited properties must be in the district
and non -benefited properties can not be in the district .
Mr . Noeboom asked if a good example would be behind Maplewood there ' s been talk about a
ditch there and the Town decides they need to go in , it' s not necessarily a townwide benefit ,
but those residents are getting a benefit . Mr . Krogh told him a lot of what is being done with
drainage districts is to not only deal with the potential increased runoff from the creation of
non-permeable surfaces , but it is also to manage flood water. Mr. Krogh reported that in
another municipality where he does some where work two or three groups were charged with
figuring out whether or not the municipality should use drainage districts . Both the Attorney
General and the DEC are strongly in favor of them for stormwater, but . they have no
jurisdiction to mandate it and a lot of people suspect that is what Phase III is going to be is
permanent districts for permanent stormwater maintenance . Flood control and stormwater
are two sides of the same coin and if you get districts , district one , district two , district three ,
eventually once you get a whole piece of land covered in theory what you should do is
consolidate into a single district within each drainage basin .
There were no further questions for Mr. Krogh .
Mr. Stein moved to adjourn . Councilwoman Gittelman seconded the motion . The meeting
was adjourned at 5 : 58 p . m .
Respectfully submitted ,
Tee-Ann Hunter
Town Clerk
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