Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutTB Minutes 1988-09-28TOWN OF ITHACA SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING September 28, 1988 At a Special Meeting of the Town Board of the Town of Ithaca, Tcarpkins Coimty, New York, held at the National Cash Register Cafeteria, 950 Danby Road, Ithaca, New York, on the 28th day of September, 1988, there were; PRESENT; ABSENT; ALSO PRESENT: Noel Desch, Supervisor Henry McPeak, Councilman Shirley Raffensperger, Councilwcman Robert Bartholf, Councilman Patricia Leary, Councilwcman Thcraas Cardman, Coxmcilman Susan Beeners, Town Planner Laura Holniberg, 1109 Taughannock Boulevard Song Kyong, 220 Highgate Road Bob Leathers, 909 V^ckoff Road Paula F. Weiss, 523 East State Street Sarah Hawley, 273 Bundy Road Paul Bradshaw, 956 Snyder Hill Road Lenny Fromkes, 59 Palroear Road Sharon Lucatelli, 106 Grove Place Sheila Lucatelli, 1456 Trumansburg Road William A. Grover, Sr., 1486 Trumansburg Road Athena Grover, 1486 Trumansburg Road Dora Bush, 1490 Trumansburg Road Karl Niklas, 1005 Danby Road Edward D. Cobb, 1005 Danby Road John Bowers, 1406 Trumansburg Road Celia Bowers, 1406 Trumansburg Road Krys Cail, 337 Dubois Road, Trumansburg Judy Cone, 211 Perry City Road, Trumansburg Pat Hall, 296 Hayts Road Gerald D. Hall, 296 Hayts Road June Walden, 121 Hopkins Road Gordon Walden, 121 Hoj^ins Road Mel Ellis, 118 Bundy Road Aileen Ellis, 118 Bundy Road Haixis Sanders, 1201 Trumansburg Road Estella Sanders, 1201 Trumansburg Road Roger McCmber, 1128 Trumansburg Road Elliott Lauderdale, 381 Stone Quarry Road Lydia Hillman, 370 Stone Quarry Road Mary DiGiaccmo, 1025 Hanshaw Road Alfred DiGiaccano, 1025 Hanshaw Road Robin Goodloe, 337 Stone Quarry Road Robert L. Kenerson, 1465 Mecklenburg Road Michael Goodfriend, 1105 Trumansburg Road Jo Anne Goodfriend, 1212 Tnmiansburg Road Frank Hanshaw, 4 Lower Place Nancy Boodley, 199 Iradell Road John Harman, 118 Iradell Road Peter E. Zaharis, 145 Iradell Road Sarah Adams, 112 West Marshall Street Vicki Romanoff, 112 West Marshall Street Tcfwn Board Minutes 2 September 2&, 1988 Kenga M. Gergely, 106 Juniper Drive Paul Glover, 1399 Slaterville Road Laura Marks, 301 King Road, East Bruce Rich, 253 Dubois Road Steven Heslop, 242 Dubois Road Lani Peck, 516 Chestnut Street Doris Neimeth, 205 Fallview Anna Lucas, 154 Bundy Road Donna Van Order, 128 Bundy Road Celia Bolyard, 13 Hillcrest Drive Doria Higgins, 2 Hillcrest Drive Helen Slepetis, 15 Hillcrest Drive L. C. Bolyard, 13 Hillcrest Drive Gene Ball, 1317 Trumansburg Road Heather Weiss, 105 Dubois Road John Weiss, 105 Dubois Road Salvatore Grippi, 423 East Seneca Street Rosalind Grippi, 423 East Seneca Street Dan Clement, 570 Dubois Road, Trumansburg Sal Taner, 1655 Taughannock Boulevard, Trumansburg G. J. Vignaux, 1470 Trumansburg Road Betty Kenjerska, 230 Hayts Road Tony Kenjerska, 230 Hayts Road Deborah Hildreth, 1415 Trumansburg Road William Hildreth, 1415 Trumansburg Road Mary Poyer, 1435 Trumansburg Road Sandy Voorheis, Trumansburg William Hooton, 1235 Trumansburg Road Eva Hooton, 1235 Trumansburg Road John Whitc(3rib, 233 Troy Road PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE The Supervisor led the assemblage in the Pledge of Allegiance. PUBLIC HEARING TO CONSIDER A LOZAL LAW REZONING A 15.86 ACRE PORTION OF TOWN OF ITHACA TAX PARCEL NO. 6-24-4--14.2, LOCATED AT 1290 TRUMANSBURG ROAD, 48.86 ACRES TOTAL, FROM RESIDENCE DISTRICT R-15 TO BUSINESS DISTRICT "B", AND WITH RESPECT TO THE PROPOSED REZONING OF A 12 ACRE PORTION OF SAID TAX PARCEL FROM RESIDENCE DISTRICT R--15 TO MULTIPLE RESIDENCE DISTRICT Proof of posting and publication of a notice of a public hearing to consider a local law rezoning a 15.86 acre portion of Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 6-24-4-14.2, located at 1290 Trumansburg Road, 48.86 acres total, from Residence District R-15 to Business District "B", and with respect to the proposed rezoning of a 12 acre portion of said Tax parcel from Residence District R-15 to Multiple Residence District having been presented by the Town Clerk, the Si:5)ervisor opened the pi±>lic hearing. Celia Bowers, 1406 Trumansburg Road stated that almost 10,000 cars would be using the hospital access light daily, not less than 2,000 as was previously estimated by the Town staff and the developers. George Frantz did in fact initiate a traffic coimt at the hospital entrance on Route 96 after my husband and I demonstrated to him that the figures that the Town Planners were using for hospital traffic would allow people to go to work in the hospital ccmplex but made absolutely no provision for them every returning home again. He has put these new traffic figures before the Board, however, he and Ms. Beeners have yet, to her knowledge, to acknowledge that the traffic generated by the Kyong neighborhood shopping center are equally wide and want. They sinply accepted Tcwn Beard Minutes 3 September 28, 1988 the developers own figures for the traffic that would be generated by the Kyong neighborhood shopping center. The Town Planners should check the developers assertions and figure vdiich might very well tend to minimize the intpact of the developers plans. In the case of traffic generation, the Town itself by it*s up to date traffic generation data which give average traffic generation figures for every possible kind of development, schools, neighborhood shopping centers, hospitals, garages, large malls, small malls, restaurants, etc. Supporting the Kyong project, Ms. Beeners has consistently said to the Town Board, her belief, that the mall plus the apartments would generate less traffic than the development of the property imder the current R-15 zoning. A glance at the research volumes vAiich the Town provides for planners use would have demonstrated that this sittply is not accurate. 650 car trips a day differs from 4,150 a factor larger than six. It is of the greatest importance that the Town Planners give objective facts not personal opinions to the Town Board and to the public. The Town Board simply cannot do its job unless the material it is presented with is as accurate as possible. How can Board members accurately access the irtpact of the Kyong project or other developments imless the Town staff provides them with objective data. She stated that she realized it was late in the day for the Town Board to take accovint of a v^ole new set of facts but she saw no alternative as she hoped and believed that no member of the Ithaca Town Board would wish to impose 4,150 extra car trips daily at the hospital access light and the neighborhood of West Hill. Doria Higgins, 2 Hillcrest Drive stated that as she saw it the situation involving the Kyong project is not becoming clearer as the months go by but it is becoming more confused. Changes have been made and information has has been given you vhich in some cases is inaccurate and in others simply doesn't make sense. This confusion about the facts in the Kyong situation is compounded for you because you do not have just the Kyong project to follow but you have many other issues to deal with. We do not see how you manage to process the enormous amount of material you are asked to review month after month. She stated that she imderstood that at the Septernber 12th Town Board meeting on of the reasons mentioned for not acquiescing to Eddy's request for rezoning of his 20 acres on Route 13 was to wait until the carpr^ensive plan is carpleted. It seemed to her that the wisest and most prudent thing, for you our Town Board, to do night is to either vote no to the Kyong project or to place in on hold as you did with the Eddydale project until a comprehensive plan acceptable to the ccnmunity has been completed. This is no time for you to vote for drastic rezoning \diich is not for the 'public good and vMch is against the majority of the publics wishes. She stated that she did not see how the Board could in good conscience vote in favor of the Kyong project as this time v^en so many loose end remain to be clarified and resolved and corrected. Srpervisor Desch remarked that the Town Board had voted against the Eddydale project, it's dead, it's not on hold. Rosalind Grippi, 423 East Seneca Street stated that she and her husband own the property next to the Kyongs. She stated that she wanted to speak first about the proposed multiple housing district v^oh in her view will not serve the public good. A developers apartment house complex is a building constructed primarily for profit and does not necessarily benefit renters. A large majority of apartments on West Hill are now provided in private hones and this supply should increase with the new subdivision coming up onto R-15 and R-30 zones. Dr. and Mrs. Kyong state that their multiple housing units will be rented to small families, the elderly and mobile singles. However, these rents will not be inexpensive. They will be in the range of $800 or more a month. Such rentals Town Board Minutes 4 September 2Q, 1988 will encourage individual homeowners to raise rents in apartments in their buildings. The result will be an inflation of rentals on West Hill that will work against tenants. This was the experience on East Hill v^en new apartments complexes were constructed. Density in each apartment increased in rent sharing schemes. M^y individuals, couples and families and the elderly were priced out and the neighborhoods were demolished. Dr. Kyong once said that if we don't accept a multiple housing district we would have greater density because every R-15 house built on the 12 acres for Wiich he now seeks rezoning will have an apartment. By their own reconing the Kyongs would plan for 35 homes in the 12 acres and, therefore, 35 apartments as well. In her view this was not bad because this would add apartments with no change in zoning and no objections fran neighbors. Also, she stated that she did not believe the rental unit and apartment situation on West Hill has been properly siarveyed. The only figures given are that there are 77 apartments at Candlewyck and 7 more going up at the Odd Fellows. We have been told again and again that there is a 2% vacancy rate but that applies to all of urban Ithaca. No special survey was made for West Hill in the area of the Town and yet here we are arguing about rezoning for a multiple housing district. What is the character of rentals on West Hill, \diat exactly is needed at vdiat price range? West Hill has no caitpus it is not the same as East Hill. It has a different character and different needs. Have the necessary information to vote for a multiple housing district against the opposition of the neighborhood, she thought not. Good planning demands that such questions be answered and that hard facts be presented before any decision on rezoning is made. She felt it was also pertinent to talk about the contour of the land. At one meeting it was point out that unlike Candlewyck the Kyong rental lanits are on the upgrade of Trumansburg Road. A position that magnifies the dcminance and height of the dwellings and their intrusion upon the landscape. We were told that the architects had considered this and it was no problem, the rental ccraplex was planned to be located beyond the crest of the hill minimizing the otherwise unfortunate effect. She stated that she herself had visited the site and observed that the multiple residence area is planned on the steep rise of the hill, the hill does not crest before the water tower and then it flattens just past the water tower toward Hopkins Road. Mrs. Grippi went on to say that she also wanted to speak about procedures that have been followed in regard to the Kyong property. The Planning Board approved the Kyong project and passed it on to the Town Board even though the Kyong' s admission contained inaccuracies and serious emissions seme of v^ch have been brought to your attention by the public. These include errors in the environmental assessment report, for exaiiple that the stream was not a concern of DEC. Omission in identification of adjacent properties, location relative to historic properties and identification of the neighborhood area. It includes an error in the map, inaccuraties on traffic vdiich was brought to our attention tonight and possibly also population anticipated. There are no statistics to support a new multiple housing district on West Hill. There is an inadequate study of the land relative to appearance of the multiple residence district and there is also an inaccurate study of the dedication land. The park is next to the NYSEG substation for exairple, there is not even the identity of the ccnroercial facility that will be open there. When it was first unvailed at the Town Board level the submission had one access road, nine pages of architectural and landscape design ranging from. Goth inspired trussing and rib construction to mission style and it also included a Victorian. A widows watch, two towers one of v^ich was hexagonal, none of vMch was planned to be built. In the words of the architect, these images were to taken as victorial description of the feel of the development. As it turned out it Town Board Minutes 5 September 29, 1988 was more ephemeral than that. At the next hearing we were presented instead with familiar four sided buildings with peaked or gabled roofs vdiich bore not relationship in feel or in anyother way with the original submission. Nonetheless this to was acceptable to the Planning Board and passed on to the public. During the hearings road accesses too had changed from one to two or three access roads and possibly involving not only Trumansburg Road but also Hayts Road. She stated that now she understood it was again changed, emitting Hayts access. She stated that it was her underst^ding that irregardless that the submission was continually influxed and the determinate in access starter facilities the Planning Board awaited Town Board approval. That would have meant that the Town Board would change the zoning and then it would go back to the Planning Board and developers to work out the final design. Access roads and architectural design are treated as secondary matters and could be determined without benefit of input from the public and indeed without approval of our elected officials. Zoning first, access determinations later. The public wants a voice in vtot is being laid out in their mid's, vtot they will be living with and vdiat generations of Ithacans will inherit as their visual environment. Ithaca is beautiful because of it's landscape but we are intruding upon it's beauty, it is rare today that building, especially subdivision buildings, enhance nature. We must make every opportunity to make the best use of every inch of natural beauty we replace. To take every caution, the Planning Board must be demanding in si±mission it accepts, before proposals are passed on to the public and Town Board they must be severly scrutinized, criticized, documented and evaluated. The subdivision and zoning ordinances state that the Planning Board is obliged to protect existing character of neighborhoods in making its reccramendations for change. That alternative sites be explored, that subdivisions be harmoneous with previous patterns of development, that there be studies of the contour of the land, that reserves turned over to the Town by developers for park and playgroimd use be suitable for such. These determinations were lacking or deficient in the case of the Kyong project. Supervisor Desch remarked that he would like to make one correction, built into this local law vdiich most have seen, there is an extra step and that is that the site plan has to come back to the Town Board. So elected officials will be involved in the final site plan. Mrs. Grippi asked, is that in zoning or zoning subdivisions? Sx:ipervisor Desch replied, it's built into the local law having to do with the zoning. Paul Bradshaw, 956 Snyder Hill Road noting the document that was handed out, went on to say that scmeone has done a great deal of nice research and they have seme up with the fact that the traffic increase is going to be 4,150, he assumed this was cars, and because there was going to be a Kyong development. Mr. Bradshaw went on to say that his thought on this was that if they were going to be going to the Kyong praject, then these 4,150 cars will not be going through the Octopus. Anything that does not go through the Octopus and reduces that he was all for it. Krys Gail, 337 Dubois Road, Town of Ulysses, stated that v^en she had spoke to the Board at a previous public hearing on this proposed in zoning law that she had address the lack of elonentary school space for this neighborhood. She stated that although she was not a resident of the Town of Ithaca she was located about a miles from the proposed ccnmercial and residential development and is in the same elementary school district as the area in question. Since she last spoke, plans have been made to add on to the Enfield Town Board Minutes 6 Septoonber 29, 1988 Elementary School although this year the school has had to function without a music rocm and without an art room. Current tas^yers throughout the Ithaca City School District may want to reflect upon \(^at responsibilities developers have, if any, to contribute to the capital improvements necessary to acccninodate the population growth with accotpanies residential developments. We may also want to send a message to our elected representatives to do everything they can to keep the increase in population within manageable limits. Presumably they also pay school taxes, either directly or indirectly. Since that time she has come to believe that the greatest impact that the neighborhood would suffer if the law were changed to allow the proposed development to be built would be in the area of traffic increase. The figures you have been presented with by both the developer and your own planners are not in agreement with those vAiich the citizens have come up with. She went on to say that she was a resident of the neighborhood under discussion tonight, as well as a resident of the Town of Ulysses. The proposed change in zoning law as well as the specific development under consideration would have significant effects on Ulysses residents due to its location very near the border of the Town of Ithaca and the Town of Ulysses on the main traffic arterial through the Town of Ulysses. Two locally owned and operated convenience stores. Weaver's and the Cut Up would be ccnpeting with the proposed convenience store located at the proposed project. The Cut Up also serves and delivers pizza. She went on to say that had we had our meeting at the Mayer's School tonight she was going to call an order pizza for the Board, unfortimately since we didn't have it there you missed out on the snack. They will deliver to the area. They also deliver sandwiches and deli items. Weaver's also carries gasoline and propane. She stated that her understanding was that Ms. Beeners included a number of Ulysses residents in her figures v^en counting perspective shoppers at the perspective neighborhood shopping center but failed to recognize the extent of the neighborhood services available currently in the Ulysses section of the neighborhood. This kind of error could have been avoided through consultation with our Town Clerk v^o has on record the areas under ccmmercial use near this project in our Town. Additionally you have been presented with square footage of shopping space figures derived from urban planning text formulas. Ulysses residents in the area are in fact not urban residents. The shopping habits of rural residents can be expected to differ sanev^at from urban consumers. She stated that she sincerely hoped that if you do not choose to deny this change of zoning law this evening, vMch are neighborhood has clearly asked you to do, that you at least make the Town of Ulysses a part of the planning process in an official way. Most Ulysses residents use Route 96 daily and the creation of a dangerous intersection will have an everyday impact. Also, our zoning ordinance and review ccnmittee is currently working on recoranendations on zoning issues and is very up to date on the locations of sein^ices v^ch may already exist to serve the needs you Town Planner has determined we may have for shopping space in the Town of Ithaca. If you want us to patronize you ccmmercial areas you can imagine that we might want you to patronize ours vdiich are already operating with substantial coimunity acceptance and support. At the very least, she stated that she would like to caution the Board to demand truly accurate figures frcm your staff regarding traffic inpact and if there is an accident you can depend on defending those figiores in court. Dan Clement, Dubois Road, Town of Ulysses, stated that he would like to make a very brief comment. Mr. Clement stated that he was looking forward to this vote because he felt it was really a vote as to whether there are zoning laws in the Town of Ithaca. If you make exceptions to the laws, v^en there aren't exceptional situations or exception needs, there may be laws on the books but they are in name only. Town Board Minutes 7 September 20, 1988 John Bowers, 1406 Truinansburg Road stated that he would like to summarize very briefly. Mr. Bowers went on to say that the main points of the West Hill Neighborhood Association were first, we feel that no major zoning changes should be made until the ccaiipr^ensive plan is in. Two, we do not think that we need a shopping center so close to \^ere the possible new Route 96 is going to end and besides that the uncertainty as to v^ere it is going to end makes it premature to put a shopping center in at the location the Kyong's are proposing. Third, we feel that there is not enough population at present on the West Hill to support a mall of this size and we feel that there is not enough evidence that the population of Ithaca is going to grow or the population of West Hill is going to grow to the point vhere such a mall would be needed. Fourth, the residents on West Hill, nobody on West Hill lives further than 10 minutes frcm downtown and 95% of people that he has talked to and the people in his organization have -talked to, are willing to drive -that far and feel -that they don't need the services -that would be available in -the Kyong mall. Fifth, -there are other projected shopping areas within five minutes of -the hospi-tal over vdiich the Town has no con-trol over anyway, notably -the one -that is on the Perry City Road. Also, there are new shopping malls proposed in Trumansburg itself. Six, with regard to mul-tiple residence we feel -that the cotirrunity would be better served by single family houses with apartments at a reasonable rent other than upscaled mul-tiple residence units of -the sort that are being proposed. Se-venth, we feel that the hospital access and the traffic congestion, produced by -the Kyong mall, would be absolutely and cotpletely intolerable, not only for -the residents of the area but for anyone \^o happens to be going -through -the area. Eight, we feel -that for -the same reason that -traffic would effect all West....I'm sorry, I just said that. Nineth, -the people vho live on West Hill wish to preserve basically residential, institutional and medical character of the neighborhood, not changing it into a conmercial area and that's vhat the present zoning say it should be and -that's vhat we would like it to s-tay. Tenth, vhat is the point of a neighborhood shopping center vhich the neighborhood has resoundingly said it did not want. This is a democracy he thought, vhere the people ha-ve made their choice clear. Lenny Frcmkes, s-tated that he had heard a number of ccsnments about the -traffic and the crowding and he said -that he could tell the Board, frcm living in the Northeast area, is very convenient but it is also getting extremely crowded. It may be fair to people vho live downtown or the Northeast area -to have the full run of -the West Hill t:raffic forced on them just because there is no neighborhood center on the West Hill for those residents to use themselves. He s-tated that he was in favor of a well planned service center and additional ren-tal units. The East Hill is getting totally jaiimed and we need additional space to grow. He s-tated that he felt that the residents of West Hill need to share in the growth and responsibility for the entire Tcnpkins County. Alfred DiGiaccmo, 1025 Hanshaw Road st:ated that the did not live on West Hill but he could sympathize with the people on West Hill with the in-troduction of a ccatipletely new development. They are faced with the classic dilemma of ^ere do you put the lit-tle neighborhood store. Faced wi-th the classic dilemma of vhere to we house our children, faced with the classic dilemma of vhere do we place our children after they have grown, married and left the house. These decisions will all be determined by the market place. West Hill will vindoubtedly grow, may be not now but in the future. It is one of the few places left to grow. Agricultural farm land becomes uneconomical to maintain. These are things for the future. He went on to say that he woxild recommend that you postpone a decision on this until a comprehensive plan is made and until the City has made a decision on Route 96. Tcfwn Board Minutes 8 September 28, 1988 As no one else present wished to speak, the Supervisor closed the public hearing. He then asked the Board for their coiinents. Councilwcman Leary asked the Assistant Planner about a memo he had written to the Board stated that the reevaluation of the traffic impact and that it would be available at the public hearing. Assistant Planner George Frantz replied, we did find out that yes, traffic entering and exiting the hospital entrance drive is approximately 4,900 vehicles per day. Mrs. Bowers has given the traffic volume out of the Kyong project and he stated that he could not evaluate this because he did not know vdiat type of stores she used because traffic differs depending on the type of store used. Mrs. Bowers replied that she would be glad to shew how she had gotten her figures. Mr. Frantz stated that all he got was 160 seme vehicles per thousand square feet and he did not know v^iat type of retail establishments generates this. Mrs. Bowers stated that she did take the opportunity to look at the index of the book Mr. Frantz was looking at and it gave several sets of figures for various types of malls and one of them was called a neighborhood shopping center and it did list things like banks, deli, it allowed restaurants v^ch this zoning does not, and therefore, she felt it was lower, it gave a figure of 1,660 car trips per day for 10,000 square feet and she had rounded out the Kyong development at 2,100 square feet and came \sp with 2,600. She thought that with the apartments she said 30 of them would have three tenants and 30 would have four tenants. With the houses she had given each house an apartment and calculated half the apartments at single tenants and half at with family tenants and worked out the figures from there. She stated that she had worked very hard to up the figures for R-15 car trips, as much as possible, and she had checked the figures with Cornell. Over 1,500 car tips per day for each 10,000 square footage of commercial, retail space seams to be on the low end of the scale. The acreage is irrelevant. She felt these were really low figures. Mr. Frantz replied that his question was viiat type of retail because again, it varies across the wide spectrum. Supervisor Desch remarked that he had two problems. One is obviously we need to have the developer go back and do v^tever additional studies are necessary and to either say they are totally wrong and here is \^y or they are okay or v^tever. Secondly, we have one Town Board mamber who is not with us this evening and with the amount of time we have all spent on this project he felt it was only fair for this particular individual to have the opportunity to vote ^en the voting time ccmes. So the combination of those two things make him pretty uncomfortable in making a decision tonight. Councilman McPeak remarked that he had been through four of the public hearings and as he listened here tonight, the complaints seen to circulate about the commercial development in this area, some^ere around 20,000 square feet. He went on to ask if those in opposition, if it was just a housing development would there be this opposition? Some in the audi^ce replied, yes. Councilman McPeak replied, so in other words you don't want anything. Somebody replied, it depends on vdiat kind of housing. Tofwn Board Minutes 9 September 28, 1988 Supervisor Desch remarked, we have heard many times opposition to any rezoning. Councilwoman Leary remarked that her main question is about the rental. She stated that she had heard a lot of statements about the public good and in her mind, the kind of crucial question is the rent question. Whether it will be $800 or \i^ether it will be affordable housing that will acconmodate many of the workers on Wiest Hill for exaitple. She stated that her thinking was brought on with the affordable housing seminar that was held a couple of weeks ago up at Ithaca College. There are creative solutions that a municipality may be able to work out with developers to actually guarantee that the housing that does go up will be affordable to middle incane and low-middle inccroe people and that there is a nice mix so that you don't get just one of one kind. She stated that she had looked into that a little bit and talked to seme people in the City Planning Department and there may be ways, they called it contract zoning, to work out an agreement with the developer that's referred to in the law, and it would go with the land. So if they sold it two years later it wouldn't just disappear it would be with the deed forever. Kind of working out seme sort of portion of the rental units targeted, two people of a ceortain income. For exairple, according to the City Planning Department, 30% of gross household income is considered affordable rental housing. So using a formula like that they could set aside a third or some percentage, that was agreeable, that would be rented to people below certain income, say $20,000 or something like that. These kind of details would have to be worked out but it was her inpression that it was possible but we can't just do it like tonight, we would need a little while longer to work it out. Certainly the 2% vacancy rate that was mentioned earlier doesn't end at the City line. It's a problem for the vdiole community, certainly the Town as well. That's a group of people, renters, v^o never come to Town Board meetings, they never speak. But they are out there. These are people v^o can't afford to buy their first home and may never be able to buy their first home but they are there and they are not just students and if anything the location of the rental units for this project is an ideal location to accoairocxiate permanent residents because it's not on the two hills vdiere you have Ithaca College and Cornell. So if anything it would attract permanent residents. She stated that she felt it was a need, the question is can we work out some kind of guarantee to the Town that this will accommodate people vdio need a place to live. People won't have to commute from Groton in order to work at the hospital. So that's another reason she was saying the Board should look into that and may be come up with something creative, something that might even be a model for later developments of this type. Supervisor Desch asked if there was any response, at this time, or would you like to take it back. Mr. Robert Leathers replied, the response would be that we do not intend to charge $800 a month, or at least Mrs. Kyong does not intend to, and we do not intend to build housing that will cost $800 a month. The fact is we have always said it would be affordable housing, we have always said it would be affordable to the full range of residents that are up in this area. Now v^at that means is there would be 20 - 30% of that housing that would be affordable to the lew income. Now we should make it clear that this is not subsidized housing though. This is in fact housing that is available at an affordable price but still people paying for v^t they are getting. Now that is, as you correctly said, 30% if the total inccms is the maximum for housing. The Federal Census Bureau defined low income as a single person in a family earning $17,100 or less. That was based on a October figure of 1987. We Town Board Minutes 10 September 29, 1988 do feel and we can assure you that it is our intention to make housing affordable to that level of person and it is in fact housing that we feel is important to be provided and we do want to see it provided as part of this. Now, the details of working that out are very conplex but we do want to work those out. We would look forward to working those out with the Board and would welccme the opportunity to do it. Councilwoman Leaiy replied that she had one question about that. *** She felt another irportant ccjponent to consider is vdiether you are j talking about this would be affordable to people making $17,000 if they triple up in an apartment or can someone have their privacy, have an apartment to themselves in one single bedroom apartment and still make $17,000 and still pay only 30% of their income? Mr. Leathers replied, yes. Mrs. Kyong replied, the rent would be about $430 a month vMch would be 30%. We were thinking of between $350 and $650, depending on how many people were in the apartment and vdiat the income level was. Councilwoman Leary asked, so how much would it be for one bedroom? Mr. Leather replied, we can't say precisely v^at the rents would be at this point, for obvious reasons, because we have to develop the plan. But vdiat we are saying is that it will be affordable and to be affordable it would have to be 30%. Councilwoman Leary replied, they told me that the standards set by HUD for Toanpkins County, it's called the fair market rent, is $362 for a one bedroom and $427 for a two bedroom. She stated that she would prefer to have something like that, once you work out the details actually on paper. You may have a great idea and great j intentions but if this ever gets passed along to someone else that would kind of evaporate with the change of hands so that is v^y some kind of contract that was agreed to up front it would kind of assure affordable housing for the area indefinitely. Mr. Leathers replied, certainly part of the \^ole process of seeing a project like this through is review at many levels and we would welcome that review with the Planning Board and you Board. We are in the conceptual stages now, not the exact details. Mr. leathers went on to say that from the beginning the assumption has been that we are providing affordable housing. We have stated that we are providing affordable housing. We intend to follow through on that and do that, \^at that means is 20 - 30% of the housing that is being provided would be affordable to the middle income or lower middle income individuals. It is defined as a person v^o is making $17,000 to $20,000 or may be it $21,000 per year if it's two or three people in the family. Soame people may say it so\inds more like middle income than low income but that is the definition of low income as you correctly stated, by HUD. So we do intend to provide housing that is available to that segment of the population. It is not going to be $800 plus for the rentals that are there. Mi^t there be some unit there that would rent for $800? Yes, that is possible because there is going to be a range of units there and some of them larger frankly, almost like a single family house. We don't yet know though if it's going to be $800 or $700 or $650 or precisely vdiat. But that would be developed as the plan was developed. Supervisor Desch suggested that the developer go back and flesh out the question that Councilwoman Leary has raised to see \(tot is feasible and desirable. Town Board Minutes 11 September 25, 1988 Councilwonian Raffensperger remarked, sane time ago we discussed the possibility of referring this back to the Planning Board. In thinking about the number of public hearings we have had she stated that she had been struck by the amount of changes in the plan, additional information frcm people v^o live in the neighborhood, additional information from our own staff, all of \f^ch in her opinion would more properly have been developed at the Planning Board level in the first place. We have a draft resolution to send this back to the Planning Board and she takes to heart the sonevdiat impleasant ccmmunication from the Attorney for Mrs. Kyong, but she felt that if the Board did send it back to the Planning Boaid the Town Board needs to be very specific. And if the Boaird is at all interested in that, she did have a list of matters she felt the Planning Boaid should develop more fully and then report back to the Town Board. She stated that she wouldn't go through the long list unless the Board is interested in thinking about sending it back to the Planning Board. Supervisor Desch asked Councilwcman Raffensperger if she would care to distribute her list to the Town Board and the staff? Councilwcman Raffensperger agreed to do this. Laxira Holmberg, attorney for Mrs. Kyong stated that she had one question vMch she assumed she should direct to Mr. Barney. Mrs. Holmberg remarked, that she wondered if this concept vMch Ms. Leary mentions isn't scmevdiat outside of the scope of \diat our application is for. Our application is for rezoning for a ccnmercial area and a multiple residence and it's a conceptual plan. We have attempted over these four hearings to answer questions, we have generated a lot of questions because we have attempted to give more detail ^ than you would normally expect for this kind of application in order to convince people but until there is a decision made, to go to the kind of expense of planning specific builds and costs, it seemed to her that it goes outside that, and is more properly in the providence of vhen it goes back to the Planning Board after you have made a decision, if you vote in favor of the project. Certainly we don't have any objection to the concept that she has mentioned but Mrs. Holmberg stated that she was just wondering if it's within the scope of our application for \tot we are asking. Town Attorney Barney replied that at this juncture he was not sure he could answer but the process is of course an application and a general site plan for rezoning. In this instance, two types of rezoning. Normally, at rezoning there are conditions imposed at that rezoning point. It is based on a general plan, we are not asking, he did not think the Tbwn Board was asking for a detail working drawings of \tot is going up there but conceptually the conditions, as the Supervisor points out, there were seme conditions that were suggested a long time ago v^en we drafted the initial local law. He went on to say that he was not certain, without doing seme research, but vtot this type of suggestion might very well be an appropriate condition to impose at the rezoning saying a specified percentage of the units would be available for people with low inceme as defined under the federal guidelines. He went on to say that quite frankly he would have to do a little thinking about it and talk with the Council person vho is raising the question. Councilwcman Leary remarked that it was more of a policy decision, it's not the kind of thing that a Planning Board, as she understood what a Planning Board does, looks at because we are not asking for a physical plan we are aslcing for a general conceptual agreenent basically what we are asking for it to have it on paper. Town Board Minutes 12 September 29, 1988 Mrs. Holmberg replied, it very hard to give you dollars and cents on that. Councilwcman Leary replied, just percentages anyway. We can talk about it more but she felt it should be pursued. Councilwcman Raffensperger stated that she felt the Board should decide v^ether or not they are going to sent it back to the Planning Board. She stated that she did not see how the Board could continue to have this ccme before the Town Board many more times without either developing the information ourselves or asking the Planning Board to do it. Supervisor Desch replied, it seems clear that additional information is needed on the question of the traffic. We need to have a response from the developer, we need staff input, we need to evaluate the proposal that Coiancilwcman Leary is putting forward. He went on to say that he would think that the timing now goes pretty much back to the developer to provide the information that has been disclosed at this last hearing. Then that would ccme back to the Board and the Board would then decide to either vote for or against the proposal, hold additional hearings or refer it back to the Planning Board. He felt it was premature imtil we have had the opportunity to evaluate those aspects of it. Councilwcman Leary remarked, unless the questions that Councilwcman Raffensperger have are specifically Planning Board type questions. Supeirvisor Desch replied that that is vdiy he felt the Town Board should look at them. Councilwcman Raffensperger remarked, they are questions that have been discussed many times, none of these are any surprise. She went on to say that she guessed that she really felt, at this point, that we really, as a matter of procedure ought to at least consider tonight, now if people are opposed to it fine, we ought to consider v^ether or not this is not the time to send it back to the Planning Board asking for this additional information to ccme to them because frankly she though all of this traffic information that the Planning Board should have considered before the Planning Board made a recommendation to the Town Board and before it came to the Town Board. Supervisor Desch replied that he thought that if the Board were going to consider that someone needs to, as you indicated earlier, specify \tot it is we e:^)ect the Planning Board to do and we certainly can't do that tonight. Councilwcman Raffensperger replied that she could. She stated that she could run through at least seme ideas. Somethings that are not exclusively her ideas but the public has brought up and every member of this Board has discussed. Councilwcman Leary asked if sending it back to the Planning Board prohibit the discussion she was concerned about, frxxn taking place at the same time or would that set it back another step? Supervisor Desch replied that he thought that if the Board were considering sending it back to the Planning Board, the Board needed the oppor±unity to look at vdiat the specifics are and agree or disagree on vtot those specifics are. Now is not the time to rush through that after having gone through the lengthy process that we have. Having been the one bringing up that issue first he felt he was responding to ^lat others have expressed as a concern about doing that. Speaking to the developer he stated that timing depends on their response. Town Board Minutes 13 September 29, 1988 Mr. Leathers replied, first off a lot of the answers to that, we do have, it is there and we certainly can present. We would welcone the opportunity at the next Board meeting or vtotever. It won't take that long and maybe after that you can better judge as to v^ether or not you have the answers you need to those questions. He went on to say that as he understands it, particularly traffic, the uses and vhat is possible within the housing and the type of housing we are talking about are two of the major things. Councilwcman Raffensperger stated that she had other concerns. For exanple, the kind of density that we might anticipate, the use of Hayts Road she stated that she had seme questions about the utilities, she had seme questions about a basis analysis of need. She felt that there needs to be seme clarification in that. She went on to say that she also would like to have a lot of clarification about seme of the material that has been presented in this about the occupancy, your information about the size of the units, the number of bedroems, the density, occupancy and that sort of thing. Councilwcman Raffensperger stat^ that she would like to have the Planning Board clarify the potential for expansion of both the multiple residence and the ccmmercial. She stated that as she reads through it, each time it beccmes less clear to her exactly vtot one would in the future determine to have been the intent of the Planning Board in making their reccmmendation to the Town Board and, therefore, the intent we are buying into in rezoning as far as the potential for ejqjansion is concerned. She stated that she would like to have an e3q)lanation and that she had asked several times and it has not been clear to her or she hasn't heard it or v^tever \f^y we are rezoning the farm house parcel, that concerns her. And then the vdiole question of how the sewer is going to get to the site is one of interest to her. She went on to say, so these are seme of the questions that she had accumulated over the hearings and she felt do need to be answered. Mr. Leathers replied, most of those we do have answers to but he was not sure how ccitplete Councilwcman Raffensperger wanted the answers. Supervisor Desch remarked, that is v^y he thought Councilwcman Raffensperger needed to share her questions with the Board and the staff. AEXJOURNMEINT The meeting was duly adjourned. ^JTcwn Clerk ArrtoM'iT or wujcatios' The Ithaca Journal ^ixdi ui ^tfo ^ork, ^Zmnpktns Ctmniy, muz ^&aaI.Sullins •Jid Myx, tLfet he resides in Ithaca, Coiint>' and state aforesaid and tiirt he is ..sIs.tM. of Tbz Iteaca Jouksal a pxiblic De%**spaper printed and published in IdiBca aforesaid, and that ^ notice, of which the annexed is a true cop>*, was published in said paper and that the first publication of said notice was on the of 19£ .. day Kotary Fublic. JEAN FORD Notary Public, State of New York No. 4654410 Qualified in Tompkins Count Commission expires MaytSrf TOWN.OF ITHACA j NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING j PLEASE TAKE NOTICE, ihol the ; Town Board of the Town of j Ithoco will meet ond conduct ; -o public heoring on Septem- n ber 28, 1988 at 7:30 P.M.. ot j the I Notional Cosh Register j Corporation Cofeterio. • 950. ( Donby Rood. Ithoco. New j York, to consider o local low i rezoning o 15.86 acre portion 1 of Town of Ithoco Tax Porcel i No. 6-24-4-14.2. located ot J '1290 Trumonsburg Rood. < 48.86 acres total, from Resi- • dence District R-15 'td Business District "B". for the proposed development of a neighbor hood commercial service cen ter, and further, with respect' to the proposed rezoping of o 12 acre portion of .soid Tox Parcel from Residency R-15 to Multipfe Residence ' District. Qp.Hyon and Song Jo Kyong. Oy/ners. and will at this ,time h^pr oil persons in fovor of or opposed to the adoption of said local low. Jean H. Swortwood Town Clerk September 21. 1988