HomeMy WebLinkAboutTB Minutes 1987-10-20 TOWN OF ITHACA
SPECIAL BOARD MEETING
October 20, 1987
At a Special Meeting of the Town Board of the Town of Ithaca,
Tompkins County, New York, held at the Town Offices at 126 East
Seneca Street, Ithaca, New York, at 12:15 P.M. , on the 20th day of
October, 1987, there were:
• PRESENT: Noel Desch, Supervisor
Henry McPeak, Councilman
Shirley Raffensperger, Councilwoman
Marc Cramer, Councilman
Gloria Howell, Councilwoman
Robert Bartholf, Councilman
Patricia Leary, Councilwoman
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
The Supervisor led the assemblage in the Pledge of Allegiance.
1988 ELECTED OFFICIALS SALARIES
Supervisor Desch noted the proposed salaries for the Town Board
members at $4,200 each, Town Justices at $8,000 each and Town
Supervisor/Chief Fiscal Officer at $16,000.
RESOLUTION NO. 221
Motion by Councilman McPeak; seconded by Councilwoman
Raffensperger,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Ithaca hereby approve
the elected officials salaries for the year 1988 for Town Board
members at $4,200 each, Town Justices at $8,000 each and Town
Supervisor/Chief Fiscal Officer at $16,000.
(Desch, McPeak, Raffensperger, Cramer, Howell and Bartholf voting
Aye. Nays - none) .
STREET LIGHTS
Eric Whitney, Assistant Engineer reported that NYSEG has a program
where the Town can replace the mercury vapor lamps, as they burn
out with high pressure sodium lamps. If the units are more than 15
years old there is no charge to the Town. Currently the Town of
Ithaca has 207 lamps in service. By replacing them as they burn
out, once they are all replaced with high pressure sodium lamps
• there will be about an $8,200 a year savings, to the Town, in
energy costs. However, the extra service charge for the higher
priced sodium lamps is about $5,600, so the Town would save
approximately $2,600 a year, overall.
Councilman Cramer asked what was the difference in illumination
between the two lamps?
Mr. Whitney replied, roughly per killowat of engery the sodium is
about twice as efficient.
Town Board 2 October 20, 1987
Councilwoman Raffensperger asked what they looked like? Some of
them are awfully ugly colored.
Town Engineer Flumerfelt replied, they are more golden in color.
They are easier on the eyes.
Supervisor Desch remarked, they are also on Route 13. They are not
like the bright red lamps.
RESOLUTION NO. 222
Motion by Supervisor Desch; seconded by Councilman Cramer,
• RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Ithaca hereby
authorize NYSEG to replace, as they burn out, the 207 lamps in
service with high pressure sodium lamps at no charge, for those
over 15 years of age, and
FURTHER BE IT RESOLVED, that the Lighting Districts be excluded, at
this time, from replacement with high pressure sodium lamps.
(Desch, McPeak, Raffensperger, Cramer, Howell and Bartholf voting
Aye. Nays - none) .
SET DATE FOR PUBLIC HEARING TO CONSIDER 1988 PRELIMINARY BUDGET FOR
THE TOWN OF ITHACA
RESOLUTION NO. 223
Motion by Supervisor Desch; seconded by Councilman McPeak,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Ithaca will meet and
conduct at public hearing at 7:00 P.M., on November 5, 1987 to
consider approval of the 1988 Preliminary Budget for the Town of
Ithaca.
(Desch, McPeak, Raffensperger, Cramer, Howell and Bartholf voting
Aye. Nays - none) .
SET DATE FOR PUBLIC HEARING TO CONSIDER 1988 PRELIMINARY BUDGET FOR
THE SOUTHERN CAYUGA LAKE INTERMUNICIPAL WATER COMMISSION
RESOLUTION NO. 224
Motion by Supervisor Desch; seconded by Councilwoman Raffensperger,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Ithaca will meet and
conduct a public hearing at 7:15 P.M., on November 5, 1987 to
consider approval of the 1988 Preliminary Budget for the Southern
Cayuga Lake Intermunicipal Water Commission.
(Desch, McPeak, Raffensperger, Cramer, Howell and Bartholf voting
Aye. Nays - none) .
• SET DATE FOR PUBLIC HEARING TO CONSIDER THE CLOVER LANE LIGHTING
DISTRICT
RESOLUTION NO. 225
Motion by Supervisor Desch; seconded by Councilwoman Howell,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Ithaca will meet and
conduct a public hearing at 7:17 P.M., on November 5, 1987 to
Town Board 3 October 20, 1987
consider approval of the Clover Lane Lighting District budget for
1988.
(Desch, McPeak, Raffensperger, Cramer, Howell and Bartholf voting
Aye. Nays - none) .
SET DATE FOR PUBLIC HEARING TO CONSIDER THE EASTWOOD COMMONS
LIGHTING DISTRICT
RESOLUTION NO. 226
Motion by Supervisor Desch; seconded by Councilman McPeak,
• RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Ithaca will meet and
conduct a public hearing at 7:19 P.M., on November 5, 1987 to
consider approval of the Eastwood Commons Lighting District budget
for 1988.
(Desch, McPeak, Raffensperger, Cramer, Howell and Bartholf voting
Aye. Nays - none) .
SET DATE FOR PUBLIC HEARING TO CONSIDER THE FOREST HOME LIGHTING
DISTRICT
RESOLUTION NO. 227
Motion by Supervisor Desch; seconded by Councilman McPeak,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Ithaca will meet and
conduct a public hearing at 7:21 P.M., on November 5, 1987 to
consider approval of the Forest Home Lighting District budget for
1988.
(Desch, McPeak, Raffensperger, Cramer, Howell and Bartholf voting
Aye. Nays - none) .
SET DATE FOR PUBLIC HEARING TO CONSIDER THE GLENSIDE LIGHTING
DISTRICT
RESOLUTION NO. 228
Motion by Supervisor Desch; seconded by Councilwoman Raffensperger,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Ithaca will meet and
conduct a public hearing at 7:23 P.M., on November 5, 1987 to
consider approval of the Glenside Lighting District budget for
1988.
(Desch, McPeak, Raffensperger, Cramer, Howell and Bartholf voting
Aye. Nays - none) .
SET DATE FOR PUBLIC HEARING TO CONSIDER THE RENWICK HEIGHTS
• LIGHTING DISTRICT
RESOLUTION NO. 229
Motion by Supervisor Desch; seconded by Councilman McPeak,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board. of the Town of Ithaca will meet and
conduct a public hearing at 7:25 P.M. , on November 5, 1987 to
consider approval of the Renwick Heights Lighting District budget
for 1988.
Town Board 4 October 20, 1987
(Desch, McPeak, Raffensperger, Cramer, Howell and Bartholf voting
Aye. Nays - none) .
SET DATE FOR PUBLIC HEARING TO CONSIDER 1988 FIRE PROTECTION
DISTRICT BUDGET
RESOLUTION NO. 230
Motion by Supervisor Desch; seconded by Councilman Cramer,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Ithaca will meet and
conduct a public hearing at 7:30 P.M., on November 5, 1987 to
• consider approval of the 1988 Fire Protection District Budget.
(Desch, McPeak, Raffensperger, Cramer, Howell and Bartholf voting
Aye. Nays - none) .
SPECIAL BENEFIT ASSESSMENT ROLL FOR WATER AND SEWER BENEFIT UNITS
Supervisor Desch stated that this item was not quite ready for Town
Board approval. It will be ready for the meeting on November 5th.
SET DATE FOR PUBLIC HEARING TO REVISE LOCAL LAW # 2 - 1980
Supervisor Desch remarked that this local law has a restriction in
it regarding through trucks over 5 tons. The law enforcement
agencies are hamstrung in enforcing it because they do not have
portable scales. They and the people of Forest Home are suggesting
that the truck ban be all through trucks.
RESOLUTION N0, 231
Motion by Supervisor Desch; seconded by Councilwoman Raffensperger,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Ithaca will meet and
conduct a public hearing at 7:00 P.M., on November 16, 1987 to
consider an amendment to Local Law # 2 - 1980.
Desch, McPeak, Raffensperger, Cramer, Howell and Bartholf voting
Aye. Nays - none) .
(Councilwoman Leary arrived at this time) .
REVISIONS TO DEER RUN COVENANT
Town Attorney John Barney stated that he had had some discussions
with Mr. Seifter and Mr. Hallberg regarding some changes in the
Covenant for Deer Run. The Town Attorney stated that he never saw
a final copy of the Deer Run Covenants and several days ago, Mr.
Seifter sent him a copy. He went on to say that in going through
it he found that some of the changes the Town Board had wanted were
• not included. On the definition of a family, Mr. Hallberg is
willing to have the definition of a family inserted, however, he
would like not to be solely limited to two unrelated persons in
those units where there are three bedrooms. What he would like,
for these units, is to have the authorization to have an owner
occupy it with possibly two additional persons. We just made this
deviation a couple of weeks ago with Black Oak. The second problem
that Mr. Seifter had with the language was that it required the
person to have his primary residence, and he understood that at
least one of the units has been sold to some people who live in
Town Board 5 October 20, 1987
Florida and will be up here only in the summer. Their primary
residence for tax purposes and other purposes is in Florida. In
reflecting on it he felt it didn't make that much difference if the
Town puts restrictions rentals, but this is a Town Board decision.
The third change that was requested was that there are
circumstances where the developer may build the units but because
of market conditions may not be able to sell and they would like
the privilege of being able to rent for a period of time after the
initial construction. In Cayuga Vista we limited it to twelve
units. The Town Attorney stated that he thought this project was
being constructed in four unit phases but he was wrong, it is
sixteen unit phases and when he drafted the language he had slipped
in four, they are requesting sixteen.
• Supervisor Desch asked the Board for comments about family and
rental, family first. He asked the Board if they were comfortable
with three unrelated persons in the case of three bedrooms?
Councilwoman Raffensperger noted, it says owner plus two, though,
that is an additional restriction, as opposed to just three
unrelated.
Supervisor Desch asked the Town Attorney how he proposed to word
this?
Town Attorney Barney responded, probably in subparagraph 3, would
say something like except that if the unit is a three bedroom unit
and owner and up to two unrelated other persons can occupy.
Councilman Bartholf asked if this follows the procedure used in
other developments?
Supervisor Desch responded, this one is slightly different. we had
a fairly lengthy discussion at the last Board meeting on the Black
Oak Lane project and this is similar to what we came up with.
Mr. Hallberg asked if something could be put in to identify what is
a bedroom. He went on to say he did not want someone trying to say
is the basement a bedroom or is this room a bedroom? He stated
that on his plans he refers to the bedrooms.
Del Grover, Cayuga Vista developer asked if these were the same
restrictions that were put on Cayuga Vista that you are now putting
on Deer Run?
Supervisor Desch replied, pretty similar.
Mr. Grover replied, something similar, they should be the same
shouldn't they?
Supervisor Desch replied, not necessarily.
Mr. Grover asked, why?
Supervisor Desch replied that each project should be judged on its
own merits.
• Town Attorney Barney responded, with the possible exception of the
three bedroom question, which was not raised when we discussed
Cayuga Vista, that the rest of this is identical language.
Mr. Grover replied, you put restrictions on us that we cannot have
absentee owner units, do they have the same at their place?
Town Board 6 October 20, 1987
Town Attorney Barney replied, yes. The rentals part of it comes
directly from the Cayuga Vista language, it tracks it word for
word.
Mr. Grover replied, in other words they can rent up to three
unrelated people without having it owner occupied?
Town Attorney Barney replied, no.
Mr. Hallberg responded, the only time you can rent to three
unrelated is if one of them is the owner.
Mr. Grover asked if there were restrictions on all three projects?
• Supervisor Desch replied that he could not remember the language on
Cayuga Vista but it might not be on your project. You would have
to go back and look at it and then follow it word for word.
Mr. Grover responded, I would have to go back and look at it,
doesn't the Board judge all three of them on the same merits?
Supervisor Desch replied no, we do each one on their own merits,
depending on configuration, depending on size, depending on mix of
units, depending on location, traffic, open space, many many
criteria.
Mr. Grover remarked that when they got involved with Cayuga Vista,
the first thing that was brought up in this room was that Rocco
Lucente 'can't do something so we can't do it. If we are judge the
same with Rocco and us why can't everybody else do the same?
Supervisor Desch replied that he was not sure that statement was
ever made. Maybe that's your interpretation, but it doesn't make
any difference.
Mr. Grover replied, it was said that we couldn't give Cayuga Vista
something that we couldn't give to Rocco Lucente.
Mr. Grover stated that he was not asking for an argument but if you
put these kinds of restrictions on us, you can't give us any
different than you give to Rocco Lucente project then how can you
change these other two projects?
Supervisor Desch stated that he could not satisfy Mr. Grover with
an answer unless he took a lot of time and went back and compared
the language on the four projects. You do that then come back and
tell us where it agrees or where it disagrees.
Supervisor Desch then asked if there were any questions on rentals
under subparagraph "i"?
Councilwoman Raffensperger noted, under subparagraph "ii", does it
really take care of that?
Supervisor Desch questioned, how would you change the wording?
• Town Attorney Barney replied that he would simply change it to read
that all owners of units except the declarant must have one of
their residents, if they have more than one residence, at Deer Run.
Councilman Cramer asked, are you taking about an out of state
resident or an in state resident, or is there no difference between
the two?
Town Board 7 October 20, 1987
Town Attorney Barney replied, all they are concerned about is the
ability to rent to somebody who may technically be a resident of
another state.
Councilman Cramer asked, what about a person who has another
residence in Ithaca and decides he will have his residence at Deer
Run and thus allowing him to have two additional unrelated.
Supervisor Desch replied that he did not feel the Board was too
worried if this happened. He stated that he could not see where
that would be a problem.
Councilwcman Raffensperger stated that in the first one, her
• assumption was that the owner would be a resident.
Town Attorney Barney replied yes, and that the owner is a family.
Supervisor Desch asked to Town Attorney to give the Board the
proper language again.
Town Attorney replied, that what he was suggesting was that all
owners of units with exception of the declarant must have one of
their residents, if they have more than one, at the premises.
Supervisor Desch remarked, but that doesn't deal with your comment
about the owner being an individual, does it.
Town Attorney Barney replied, that's covered under the occupancy,
under (iii) , except that he would add after no more than two
unrelated persons living together as a single housekeeping unit
except that if the unit is presently defined by the developer as a
three bedroom unit it may be occupied by the owner, if an
individual, and no more than two unrelated persons all living
together as a single housekeeping unit.
Supervisor Desch asked, how about (ii) ?
Town Attorney Barney replied, that will remain the same.
Supervisor Desch asked the Board if they were comfortable with
sixteen units?
Councilman Cramer asked what was the total number of units?
Mr. Hallberg responded, 152. He went on to say that the reason he
asked for sixteen was that that's the blocks that we build in, or
our line of credit is for sixteen. We have sixteen starts at a
time.
Supervisor Desch asked the Town Attorney if he wanted to deal with
paragraph "b" next, leases?
The Town Attorney responded that that is just additional language
that was being required and to which they are agreeing to.
The Town Attorney went on to say that the one of his comments on
the original declaration was that there was a provision that said
under the architectural control provisions of the Declaration said
that if you are going to make any changes it had to be submitted
and if no action was taken by the Board, it was deemed disapproved
and reading through the language it went on to say something like
this section will be met and complied with but it shall not effect
any future type of action requested under this same section or any
prohibitions under any other segments of the Declaration. The Town
Attorney stated that the word disapproved seemed out of character
there, and that he felt the way the whole thing was structured the
Town Board 8 October 20, 1987
word should be approved. When Mr. Seifter took a look at the
comments he really did mean diapproved. The Town Attorney stated
that quite frankly, he could not get excited about this. If
something is submitted to the Board for a change in plans and if
the Board does not approve it, it doesn't happen. He stated that
he did not feel the Town really cared, so he had no problem with
this.
Mr. Hallberg added, that Mr. Seifter's concern was if we so much as
changed the size of a door, that the Homeowner's Association could
stop us dead in our tracks.
Town Attorney Barney responded no, this related basically to
• architectural control. You are one ahead of me. The architectural
control starts out saying no building, fence, wall or other
structure, no change in togopgraphy, etc. , shall be commenced upon
the properties without submitting it to the Association or an
Architectural Control Committee, then they have 60 days to react,
if they don't react in 60 days its deemed disapproved.
Mr. Hallberg remarked, that's the individual owners.
Town Attorney Barney replied, actually it's anybody except that it
does not apply to the developer. He stated that his feeling, after
reading it through, was that it does not make too much difference
as the developer has to comply with the plans that were submitted
to the Town of Ithaca for subdivision approval. The other problem
that Mr. Seifter had was that a lot of this had already gone to the
Attorney General and they really didn't want to monkey with the
language if they could help it.
Supervisor Desch questioned, what you just said applies to
paragraph 2?
Town Attorney Barney remarked yes, my last content was directed to
this also.
Councilwoman Raffensperger remarked, just discuss what this means,
a little more.
Town Attorney Barney replied, Article 6 in these Declarations is
entitled Architectural Control. It sets out in paragraph 1
restrictions that nothing can happen without the approval of the
Board of Directors of the Association, that's section 1 and that's
where the 60 day limit comes in and they either approve or
disapprove. Section 2 says that this section 1 does not apply to
the developer, plain and simple. So really what it does it
Prohibits anyone living up there from putting up a fence or can
change the development in any way without the approval of the
Homeowner's Association. The developer can. He stated that his
initial reaction was why shouldn't the developer be subject to that
same restriction and that was what my comment was that went back to
Mr. Hallberg and on to Mr. Seifter. Their response is that we are
making a multi-million dollar investment up there, we are going to
build and have to build according to the plans that have been
approved by the Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca. But we don't
• want our hand tied everytime we shift a door or decided to put in a
fence or something like that, that are permitted by the plans that
we have to go to the Homeowner's Association for consent to do it.
This Board approved the development Declarations with the language
in place that it was going to be modified so that is why we are
bringing it back to you. It up to the Board, it's really a policy
decision.
Councilwoman Raffensperger asked, where does the phrase overall
nature of the project cone from? That is a very broad statement.
Town Board 9 October 20, 1987
Town Attorney Barney replied, that came from me. He stated that he
had suggested some language that said they would not make any
changes except that would change the overall nature of the project.
If you change the overall nature of the project you would have to
go back to the Planning Board and get approval.
Councilwoman Raffensperger remarked, if they want to change the
location of a building, build a garage or a carport, any of that
has to go back to the Planning Board.
Mr. Hallberg added, the intention was that if we want to go from
townhouses to single family homes, or fee simple to apartments that
we would absolutely have to run it by Homeowner's Association to
let them know what was going on.
RESOLUTION NO. 232
Motion by Councilwoman Raffensperger; seconded by Councilman
Cramer,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Ithaca hereby approved
the recommend changes in the Deer Run Covenants.
(Desch, McPeak, Raffensperger, Cramer, Howell, Bartholf and Leary
voting Aye. Nays - none) .
Town Attorney Barney noted one other change that he stated he did
not know about until twenty minutes ago which he stated he would
like to have the Board consider. The original document, when
submitted to the Board, defined Class A and Class B members, Class
B member being typically the developer, and Class A being the
individual lot owners. As originally proposed to the Board, the
Class A members had voting rights from day one, but the Class B
member had four votes for every Class A member so there was a 4-1
ratio. The Class B membership terminated automatically when eight
units were conveyed or two years from the date of the first
closing, whichever event occured first. That was the way it came
before this Board and the way that you approved it. In discussing
it with the Attorney General, Mr. Seifter told him that they
rewrote it to change it around somewhat and principally at the
suggestion of the Attorney General. And that is that the Class A
members are specifically denied voting rights until the earlier of
two events, (1) is the closing of the 76th unit in the
development. You have 152 units so that means a majority of the
units have to be sold or three years after the closing of the first
unit and the Class B members instead of having 4 votes only has 1
vote. It accomplishes the same thing but it does it a little
differently in that the 4-1 ratio is gone. He went on to say that,
however, there is a significant difference in that before, the
Class B membership evaporated after eight units were sold. The
problem is that the developer wants to control the subdivision for
a period of time and, as he told Mr. Seifter this was a change and
he felt the Town Board ought to be aware of it and approve it if
they so agree.
• Supervisor Desch remarked, the real question is whether three years
is reasonable or not. That's three years from when?
Town Attorney Barney replied, date of sale of first unit. Three
years is consistent with a number of other provisions that are in
here.
RESOLUTION NO. 233
Motion by Councilwoman Howell; seconded by Councilman McPeak,
Town Board 10 October 20, 1987
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Ithaca hereby approves
the revised definition of Class A and Class B membership.
(Desch, McPeak, Raffensperger, Cramer, Howell, Bartholf and Leary
voting Aye. Nays - none) .
REVISION TO ESCROW ACCOUNT AGREEMENT WITH JEROLD WEISBURD
Town Attorney Barney stated that Mr. Weisburd has not yet completed
all of the improvements that he is required to have done on the
Cresent part of the project and he has a closing scheduled in two
or three days and he wants a Certificate of Occupancy. We have put
• together a modification of an agreement that we already have with
the prior entity which provides for a deposit of $9,000 in escrow
to secure completion of the items which are principally the control
panel for the sewage pump stations and some surfacing of the roads.
The Town Attorney stated that he had drafted an amendment to the
agreement which is essentially the same agreement that was in place
before.
Supervisor Desch asked the Town Engineer what the exposure was?
Town Engineer Robert Flumerfelt replied, $1,500 for the pump
station panel and oil and stone for the road at a figure close to
$4,000.
Supervisor Desch stated that the question was is there enough in
the escrow to cover this.
Town Engineer Flumerfelt replied, there is plenty of money in there
to cover these two items.
Councilwoman Howell asked if the escrow account was being cut down.
Town Engineer Flumerfelt replied no, they are adding $4,000 more to
the $5,000 already in the escrow.
Councilwoman Raffensperger asked, what is Mr. Weisburd getting for
this, this is what we are missing.
Town Attorney Barney replied, Certificates of Occupancy so he can
close.
Supervisor Desch remarked that the key question is, he is getting a
Certificate of Occupancy on a building which can be occupied
without any problems. The discussions that the Town Engineer and I
have been having on this is whether the timing is right and who
will maintain the road? Mr. Weisburd has to maintain the road
because we do not want to accept it since there will be more
construction traffic going over it to build the units that are at
the end of the road, which have not been built yet. It is really
to our advantage, if we are comfortable, that the people who are
moving in there can live there without having problems and that the
Town's rights are protected to recover the costs of whatever we
might have to do that Mr. Weisburd might not do.
• Town Engineer Flumerfelt remarked that the fact that the sewage
pumping station is not entirely completed is not really Mr.
Weisburd's fault, the control panel which controls the operation of
the pumps has just a long time in coming. It's one of those things
that's expected daily and it doesn't seem to be there yet. They
have a way to manually run the station, in the meantime.
Town Board 11 October 20, 1987
Councilwoman Raffensperger remarked, we are not giving a
Certificate of Occupancy with any uncertainty as to services for
them.
Supervisor Desch replied that is was certain that the Certificate
would not be issued unless the system is operational and in
compliance with the code, both the water and the sewer.
Councilman Cramer asked, what has been Mr. Weisburd's position in
the past on other projects that we have had a security deposit on,
has he complied with everything the Town has asked for?
Supervisor Desch replied, yes. He has left sufficient funds in
• there longer than he was required to. He is complying very
thoroughly on roads, water lines and landscaping, etc.
RESOLUTION NO. 234
Motion by Councilman McPeak; seconded by Councilwoman Howell,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Ithaca hereby approve
the revisions to the escrow agreement with Jerold Weisburd.
(Desch, McPeak, Raffensperger, Cramer, Howell, Bartholf and Leary
voting Aye. Nays - none) .
DRAINAGE - IVOR JONSON'S DEVELOPMENT
Councilwoman Raffensperger stated that she had received a couple
very firm complaints about drainage in the Ivor Jonson development.
She asked if this really met the specifications that the Town set
for drainage? She went on to say that she remembered all of the
discussions about how wonderful the drainage was going to be, does
it mean the requirements that the Planning Board imposed?
Town Engineer Flumerfelt replied, that he thought it does. He went
on to say that he felt it was mainly a question of the size of the
stone that in the ditches.
Councilwoman Raffensperger asked, what about the size of the pipes?
Town Engineer Flumerfelt replied, that as far as he could recall
they were the right size, the size that is called for.
Supervisor Desch questioned what has happened, is erosion moving
some stone?
Town Engineer Flumerfelt replied, it's moving stone a little bit
and also the banks aren't entirely stabilized yet, also so there is
some mud washing down in.
Councilwoman Raffensperger noted that one culvert does not take the
water, the ditch fills up, runs across the road into the yards of
the people on the downhill side. It looked like the pipe may be
undersized. It's the same size as the ones underneath driveways
• and yet it is on a corner and is a drainage culvert. How do you
get ones under individual driveways the same size as ones at a
right angle, major drainage way and I just wondered if he had met
the requirements.
Town Engineer Flumerfelt stated that he would double check the size
again but that he thought Mr. Jonson had met the requirements.
Councilwoman Raffensperger went on to say that obviously they are
having lots of problems.
Town Board 12 October 20, 1987
Supervisor Desch remarked, that culvert under the road does not
seem to be handling the water so it jumps over the road?
Councilwoman Raffensperger replied, goes over the road and into Mr.
Bloomfield's yard. She went on to say, also the house up the hill
from him is also being flooded from further up hill, so you have a
real progression of flooded houses and these don't have any
basements so there is no safety valve. Instead of being in the
basement it's in the first floor of the houses.
Supervisor Desch remarked that where Mr. Jonson is working now, he
must have a fair amount of bare earth there.
• Councilwoman Raffensperger noted that Mr. Bloomfield had lived
there for over a year and the yard was well seeded and landscaped
and the house across is seeded and landscaped also.
Town Engineer Flumerfelt remarked that there is another drainage
problem. In the Hungerford Heights subdivision, Dove Drive and the
new section of Dove Drive. There has been several discussions in
the past two years or so with Cornell University and Ralph Varn,
the developer, and the Town of Ithaca, Lou Cartee was involved in
it. It finally boiled down to the drainage which cuts across both
sections of Dove Drive and then down through a corner of Cornell's
land to Snyder Hill Road. That's really a bad situation and
Cornell is very upset about it. He went on to say that he walked
the land with them and we had a fairly hard rainfall about three
weeks ago and he then showed pictures of what is happening in the
drainage way down through Cornell's land. He stated that he really
thought that that drainage way going across the Hungerford Heights
subdivision is dumping too much water in that drainage way and that
he had a suggested method of attack. The Town Engineer stated that
he just wanted to pass it by the Board to see what they thought.
He went on to say that he thought the Town may have some
responsibility in this drainage problem. He appeared to him that
we could try to divide the flow which canes across that ditch so
that about 1/3 would go down one side of Dove Drive toward Snyder
Hill Road, 1/3 on the other side and perhaps leave 1/3 in either
that drainage way right there or try to get a channel in the
existing ditch along the backs of those houses on Dove Drive.
There is a general Swale there that he felt would handle 1/3 of the
flow. It would involve some expenditure to improve ditches and
culverts on both sides of Dove Drive but he felt the impact could
be spread out in that manner.
Supervisor Desch asked the Town Engineer how many culverts was he
talking about replacing?
Town Engineer Flumerfelt replied, that he didn't even have them
itemized yet but not to many really. He just wanted to pass the
concept by first to see if that looked like a possible solution to
look into a little more fully.
Councilman Cramer asked, how much construction is taking place on
Dove Drive?
• Town Engineer Flumerfelt stated that he felt those units were
pretty well built.
Councilwoman Howell asked if this was a regular waterway?
Town Engineer Flumerfelt replied, Cornell says they used to mow
that field and it was usable, they could run a tractor across there
where they can't now. Cornell University and Ralph Yarn, the
developer, made an agreement to construct this Swale down through
there and they put in a culvert at the top end of their land and
Town Board 13 October 20, 1987
one underneath the fence down at the bottom end and those have
caused problems. They wanted to have grates over the ends of the
culverts so that animals wouldn't get in with the horses and those
quickly clogged up, the erosion and gravel plug up the culverts
then the water goes around the culverts.
Councilwoman Raffensperger questioned, are you saying this is our
responsibility and not the developers?
Town Engineer Flumerfelt replied that he felt it should never have
been done that way, in the first place. That drainage way should
never have been diverted over to that point, on Cornell's land.
• Councilman Cramer asked if the Town Engineer had examined the
original development plans of the developer?
Town Engineer Flumerfelt responded, that if he remembers correctly
it shows using the existing swale down along the boundary along the
back of the houses on Dove Drive and Cornell land. As it turned
out, it is a very shallow swale and not really suitable for
carrying that amount of water.
Supervisor Desch suggested that Mr. Varn be brought in to discuss
this problem.
ADJOURl V=
The meeting was duly adjourned.
Town Clerk
•