HomeMy WebLinkAbout2001-01-22 •
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Town of Lansin
Monday, January 22 , 2001 7 : 00 PM PLANNING BOARD
4 PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS
5 j Denaic, presanj
6 * Brad Griffin, Chair * Jacobs Baker
7 Larry Sharpsteen * Lin Davidson
8 * Viola Miller * David Hatfield
9 * Gregg Travis
10
11 * Bud Shattuck, Town Councilman
12 * George Totrnan, Zoning and Code Enforcement Officer
13 Public Present
14 Bill Miller Ron Parks
15 Candis Bailey Walter Poland
16 Doug Firth Nancy Loncto
17 Ron Parks
18
19 GENERAL BUSINESS
20 Brad Griffin opened the meeting at 7 : 00 PM .
• Brad Griffin stated that he spoke with Toni Niederkorn about some of the possible points of review. Brad
stated that everyone should be able to speak on any of the points they feel need to be discussed, even if they
23 have to reconvene on a future date .
24 Brad Griffin stated that on Wednesday, January 17, 2001 , the Town Board acted on the moratorium that had
25 been in place . Brad stated that the motion was unanimously approved . Brad stated that he would credit most
26 of that transaction to Bud Shattuck ' s very effective role as liaison . Brad stated that at the public hearing, the
27 speakers on both sides of the issue were civil .
28 Gregg Travis stated he would like to talk about the applications for subdivisions . The Subdivision Rules and
29 Regulations in the town should be read by any developer, but unfortunately it seems that in the past year or
30 two the applicants haven ' t really looked at it and done all that they should in preparation for the meetings .
31 Gregg added that it also leaves the Planning Board at a loss . Gregg stated that he is in the process of trying
32 to make it simpler for the applicant and for the Planning Board to review . Gregg stated that he was able to
33 get though the minor subdivisions and made a checklist for that. Gregg stated that lie did not see in there
34 anywhere that would exempt large lots from having to go through the subdivision process , for example
35 dividing a 60 acre lot into two 30 acre lots . Gregg stated that he did not have the stuff with him , but perhaps
36 they could put it on the agenda for the next meeting. Lin Davidson asked whether there was a time limit
37 between the subdivisions. Gregg Travis replied that he did find that in there and he thought it said two years.
38 Discussion on Budget — Jackie Baker stated that the only things that came as a surprise to her were the
39 amounts for Thaler & Thaler. Jackie stated that she only remembered Rich John coming to two meetings,
40 yet the bill was $3253 . Jackie stated that Sharon said she would be happy to emphasize to Mr. John that he
41 would not list it as an expense to the Planning Board unless they have requested that he be there. Jackie
42 stated that has been taken care of for this year. The board discussed other expenses incurred in 2000 .
• Appointment of new Planning Board Member - Brad Griffin announced that the Town Board appointed
44 Nancy Loncto to fill Jackie Baker ' s position .
2 Town of Lansing Plaanink Board, January 22, 2001
1 Discussion on Letters received — Brad Griffin shared two letters that were received . Brad stated that the
2 first one was to the Town Board from someone who attended the December 13 , 2000, meeting . The concern
1110 was about junk material on property near his residence at 191 Lansingville Rd . Brad acknowledged that to
some residents with these concerns the planning process may be seen as merely academic, but added the
5 Town has been in court many times over the junkyard in the middle of' town , making the process of getting
6 that one cleaned up difficult . George Totman responded by stating that the place this man was referring to is
7 in the process of cleaning up . George explained that the owner gave eviction notices to the tenants and they
8 were supposed to be out by January 1 , 2001 . George stated that because the property owner went to his
9 attorney and had the papers drawn up and delivered to the tenants, he did not have to go to court because
10 George figured the purpose was to get the place cleaned up . Bud Shattuck stated that at the beginning of last
11 year, George took the Town Board on a tour of the town , pointing out the properties that were designated as
12 junk areas , or homes that need to be torn down or brought up to code . Bud stated that they toured the whole
13 town and George had already contacted these places by mail prior to the tour. Bud stated that within the first
14 couple months about 80% had cleaned up, then George started concentrating on the ones that had not
15 cooperated . Bud stated that George had really gotten a lot of the town cleaned up and was continuing to
16 work on the remainder.
17 Brad Griffin stated that the other letter was from a former member of the Planning Board , Robert Todd .
18 Brad stated that the letter was to Steve Farkas regarding the proposed amendments to the Land Use
19 Ordinance in the RA district . Brad Griffin read the letter. Brad stated that he does not agree that a 20 ' lot is
20 a functional lot. Brad directed everyone ' s attention to Sec. 503 and asked whether there really was a
21 necessity for the lot requirement in the RA district to be 40 ,000 sq . fl. Bud Shattuck pointed out that
22 minimum lot sizes as shown on this sheet, were changed at the last Town Board meeting. Bud stated that it i
23 would be a matter of whether they want to change it from the 40,000 sq . II that was just adopted . George
24 Totman pointed out that those changes do not take effect until 30 days from last Wednesday.
0 Brad Griffin asked what the health department requirements were for lot size . George Totman responded
that the requirement is a 150- E1 , circle of usable land . Brad Griffin stated that there should be minimal
27 regulation to accomplish goal . The board discussed the acreage per dwelling unit required in the RA district.
28 Bud Shattuck stated that there is a difference between a duplex and an apartment within a house and that they
29 were defined at the meeting also . George 'Totman stated that he can not find anything that designates
30 between an apartment and a duplex . Bud Shattuck stated that Rich John used the New York State
31 regulations for it. Bud stated that there was a short description of what it meant for an apartment and a shod
32 description for condominium . George Totman replied that a duplex has two dwelling units and a house with
33 an apartment in it has two dwelling units . Bud Shattuck stated that there is a separate description for an
34 apartment that New York State has and they took a condensed version of that and passed it last week . Bud
35 stated that he does not have it, but Rich does and it is supposed to be part of what passed last week . Bud
36 stated that they read it last week at the public hearing.
37 Bud Shattuck stated that the document that they read and passed at the meeting was the document, as is, that
38 came from the Planning Board to the Town Board . Bud stated that they just passed the parts that they
39 thought were appropriate to lift the moratorium .
40 Brad Griffin stated that in their effort to correct where they erred in R1 , it seems something got fixed that did
41 not need fixing. Gregg Travis agreed that he felt the 40 ,000 sq . ft per dwelling unit was too restrictive . Bud
42 Shattuck stated that the Town Board will consider whatever the Planning Board moves forward .
43 Lin Davidson moved to recommended changing the minimum lost size in the RA District from "40/DU" to
44 "20/DU or Health Department" . Gregg Travis seconded . VOTE : ALL iN FAVOR. MOTION CARRIED
45 UNANIMOUSLY .
Discussion on the Proposed Changes to the Land Use Ordinance
47 Tom Niederkorn stated that it seems to him that they are working this way too hard . Toni stated that it does
48 not need to be so complicated . Tom suggested that they focus on Schedule 1 . The Board discussed the
49 ordinance.
3 Town of Lansing Planning Board. January 22. 2001 '
1 13111 Miller stated that he is a representative of the 1t3 district . Mr. Miller stated that he was not sure if the
2 Planning Board was aware of it or not, but all of the R3 district is in an Ag . District. Mr. Miller stated that he
called the Ag. District people , specifically Sec . 803 . 2 . 3 . Mr. Miller stated that the requirements , of that
section , violate the rules and regulations for New York State in an Ag. District. The woman guaranteed that
5 if it was taken to court , none of the regulations that are set forth here are valid in an Ag . District . Mr. Miller
6 stated that if you used the 1000 11. boundary in the R3 , there would be no livestock allowed anywhere in the
7 R3 district . Mr. Miller stated that the regulation states there is to be no storage of refuse and food outside,
8 livestock requires hay and you store that outside . Toni Niederkorn stated that Mr. Miller was correct and that
9 the Ag . District regulations supercede these regulations so they might just as well be consistent at this point.
10 Lin Davidson pointed out that they have the sections for farming and livestock, and in another area have
11 keeping and raising of horses and ponies . Viola Miller stated that they are not farms then . Bill Miller stated
12 that there were inconsistencies in it, as there is one thing for dairy and another for livestock , yet dairy is
13 livestock by state definition , and horse is also livestock according to Ags . & Markets . The board discussed
14 the definition of a farm, versus raising one or two horses .
15 Gregg Travis stated that he does not like the 1000 ft . boundary either. Torn Niederkorn asked if 100 ft would
16 be better. Gregg replied that it would be, but not within that district, that maybe there should be some
17 guidelines to where it borders other districts where there may be higher densities . Viola Miller stated that if
18 they are already fanning, it is grand -fathered , even if they sell it. Mr. Miller stated that there is some land in
19 the R3 that has not been farmed in several years , that has no livestock on it right now , therefore would not be
20 grand-fathered . Mr. Miller stated that they are in an Ag. District, but may not get agricultural tax benefits.
21 Nancy Loncto stated that she would be interested in how other communities deal with these items . Ms .
22 Loncto read the way one community grouped these items . Mr. Niederkorn asked what she was reading from .
23 Ms . Loncto replied that it was from the Land Use Ordinance from Boulder, Colorado . Gregg Travis asked if
24 those distinctions were for either with or without livestock. Ms . Loncto agreed , and stated that it was also
• either for commercial production or things such as grazing land .
26 David Hatfield motioned to change, Page V -4, Use 3 . Farming — poultry & Use 4 . Farming — livestock, in
27 R3 from " SP 803 . 2 . 2" & "SP 803 .2 . 3 " to a simple "P" . Brad Griffin seconded . VOTE : ALL IN FAVOR.
1 28 MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY .
29 Bud Shattuck pointed out that as it stands now, in the yellow document that is in effect now, those are
30 already "P" so it is not really changing anything.
31 The board continued to discuss changing the 1000 ft. requirement in RI (Sec . 803 . 2 . 3 . c) . The board agreed
32 to change the requirement to 200 ft. from the property line .
' 33 The board continued to discuss the ordinance . The board will consider the possibility of a B1 and 132
34 district. Viola Miller will try to attend the Town Center committee meeting the following night. Torn
35 Niederkorn will make the changes discussed .
36 David Hatfield motioned to adjourn at 10 : 00 PM . Lin Davidson seconded . VOTE: ALL 1N FAVOR .
37 MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY .
38 The next meeting will be held on Monday, February 12, 2001 .
39 Submitted by Robin Cornell
40
. .
1
of Lansing•
® Town f,.
3 Monday , January 22 , 2001 7 : 00 PM PLANNING BOARD
4 PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS
5 (*Denotes present)
6 * Brad Griffin, Chair * Jacoba Baker
7 Larry Sharpsteen * Lin Davidson
8 * Viola Miller * David Hatfield
9 * Gregg Travis
IO
11 * Bud Shattuck, Town Councilman
12 * George Tolman, Zoning and Code Enforcement Officer
13 Public Present
14 Bill Miller
15 Doug Firth
16 Nancy Loncto
17
l s GENERAL BUSINESS
19. Brad Griffin opened the meeting at 7 : 00 PM.
Brad Griffin stated that he spoke with Tom Niederkorn about some of the possible points of review. Brad
stated that everyone should be able to speak on any of the points they feel need to be discussed, even if they
22 have to reconvene on a future date.
23 Brad Griffin stated that on Wednesday, January 17, 2001 , the Town Board acted on the moratorium that had
24 been in place. Brad stated that the motion was unanimously approved. Brad stated that he would credit most
25 of that transaction to Bud Shattuck' s very effective role as liaison. Brad stated that at the public hearing, the
26 speakers on both sides of the issue were civil .
•
27 Gregg Travis stated he would like to talk about the applications for subdivisions . The Subdivision Rules and
28 Regulations in the town should be read by any developer, but unfortunately it seems that in the past year or
29 two the applicants haven ' t really looked at it and done all that they should in preparation for the meetings. re
30 Gregg added that it also leaves the Planning Board at a loss . Gregg stated that he is in the process of trying r
31 to make it simpler for the applicant and for the Planning Board to review. Gregg stated that he was able to ; E
32 get though the minor subdivisions and made a checklist for that. Gregg stated that he did not see in there r �.
33 anywhere that would exempt large lots from having to go through the subdivision process , for example
34 dividing a 60 acre lot into two 30 acre lots . Gregg stated that he did not have the stuff with him, but perhaps
35 they could put it on the agenda for the next meeting. Lin Davidson asked whether there was a time limit
36 between the subdivisions. Gregg Travis replied that he did find that in there and he thought it said two years. •
37 Discussion on Budget - Jackie Baker stated that the only things that came as a surprise to her were the 0
38 amounts for Thaler & Thaler. Jackie stated that she only remembered Rich John coming to two meetings ,
39 yet the bill was $3253 . Jackie stated that Sharon said she would be happy to emphasis to Mr_ John that he
40 would not list it as an expense to the Planning Board unless they have requested that he be there . Jackie
41 stated that has been taken care of for this year. The board discussed other expenses incurred in 2000 , >=
IDAppointment of new Planning Board Member - Brad Griffin announced that the Town Board appointed '
43 Nancy Loncto to fill Jackie Baker ' s position.
44 Discussion on Letters received - Brad Griffin shared two letters that were received. Brad stated that the
45 first one was to the Town Board from someone who attended the December 13 , 2000, meeting , The concern
- - -
Town of Lansing Planning Board, January 22, 2001
I was about junk material on property near his residence at 191 Lansingville Rd. Brad acknowledged that to
2 some residents with these concerns the planning process may be seen as merely academic, but added the 1 �1 •
3 Town has been in court many times over the junkyard in the middle of town., making the process of getting
4 that one cleaned up difficult. George Totman responded by stating that the place this man was referring to is
5 in the process of cleaning up . George explained that the owner gave eviction notices to the tenants and they
6 were supposed to be out by January 1 , 2001 . George stated that because the property owner went to his
7 attorney and had the papers drawn up and delivered to the tenants , he did not have to go to court because
8 George figured the purpose was to get the place cleaned up . Bud Shattuck stated that at the beginning of last
9 year, George took the Town Board on a tour of the town, pointing out the properties that were designated as
10 junk areas, or homes that need to be torn down or brought up to code. Bud stated that they toured the whole
11 town and George had already contacted these places by mail prior to the tour. Bud stated that within the first
12 couple months about 80% had cleaned up, then George started concentrating on the ones that had not
13 cooperated. Bud stated that George had really gotten a lot of the town cleaned up and was continuing to
14 work on the remainder.
15 Brad Griffin stated that the other letter was from a former member of the Planning Board, Robert Todd .
16 Brad stated that the letter was to Steve Farkas regarding the proposed amendments to the Land Use
17 Ordinance in the RA district. Brad Griffin read the letter. Brad stated that he does not agree that a 20 ' lot is
18 a functional lot_ Brad directed everyone' s attention to Sec. 503 and asked whether there really was a
19 necessity for the lot requirement in the RA district to be 40,000 sq. ft. Bud Shattuck pointed out that
20 minimum lot sizes as shown on this sheet, were changed at the last Town Board meeting. Bud stated that it
21 would be a matter of whether they want to change it from the 40, 000 sq. ft that was just adopted . George
22 . Totman pointed out that those changes do not take effect until 30 days from last Wednesday .
23 Brad Griffin asked what the health department requirements were for lot size. George Totman responded
24 that the requirement is a 150-ft.. circle of usable land. Brad Griffin stated that there should be minimal
25 regulation to accomplish goal . The board discussed the acreage per dwelling unit required in the RA district.
26 Bud Shattuck stated that there is a difference between a duplex and an apartment within a house and that they
27 were defined at the meeting also. George Totman stated that he can not find anything that designates
28 between an apartment and a duplex. Bud Shattuck stated that Rich John used the New York State
29 regulations for it. Bud stated that there was a short description of what it meant for an apartment and a short
30 description for condominium. George Totman replied that a duplex has two dwelling units and a house with
31 an apartment in it has two dwelling units. Bud Shattuck stated that there is a separate description for an
32 apartment that New York State has and they took a condensed version of that and passed it last week. Bud
33 stated that he does not have it, but Rich does and it is supposed to be part of what passed last week . Bud
34 stated that they read it last week at the public hearing.
35 Bud Shattuck stated that the document that they read and passed at the meeting was the document, as is, that
36 came from the Planning Board to the Town Board. Bud stated that they just passed the parts that they
37 thought were appropriate to lift the moratorium.
38 Brad Griffin stated that in their effort to correct where they erred in RI , it seems something got fixed that did
39 not need fixing. Gregg Travis agreed that he felt the 40,000 sq . ft, per dwelling unit was too restrictive. Bud
40 Shattuck stated that the Town Board will consider whatever the Planning Board moves forward.
41 Lin Davidson moved to recommended changing the minimum lost size in the RA District from "40/DU" to
42 " 20/DU or Health Department" . Gregg Travis seconded. VOTE : ALL IN FAVOR. MOTION CARRIED
43 UNANIMOUSLY .
44 Discussion on the Proposed Changes to the Land Use Ordinance S
45 Tom Niederkorn stated that it seems to him that they are working this way too hard . Torn stated that it does
46 riot need to be so complicated . Tom suggested that they focus on Schedule L The Board discussed the
47 ordinance .
re . . ._ . a- ._ _ . . .
3 Town of Lansing Planning Board, January 22, 2001
Bill Miller stated that he is a representative of the R3 district. Mr. Miller stated that he was not sure if the
toPlanning Board was aware of it or not, but all of the R3 district is in an Ag . District. Mr. Miller stated that he
3 called the Ag. District people, specifically Sec. 803 . 2 . 3 . Mr. Miller stated that the requirements, of that
4 section, violate the rules and regulations for New York State in an Ag. District. The woman guaranteed that
5 if it was taken to court, none of the regulations that are set forth here are valid in an Ag. District. Mr. Miller
6 stated that if you used the 1000 ft boundary in the R3 , there would be no livestock allowed anywhere in the
7 R3 district. Mr. Miller stated that the regulation states there is to be no storage of refuse and food outside,
8 livestock requires hay and you store that outside. Tom Niederkorn stated that Mr. Miller was correct and that
9 the Ag. District regulations supercede these regulations so they might just as well be consistent at this point.
10 Lin Davidson pointed out that they have the sections for farming and livestock, and in another area have
11 keeping and raising of horses and ponies . Viola Miller stated that they are not farms then. Bill Miller stated .
12 that there were inconsistencies in it, as there is one thing for dairy and another for livestock, yet dairy is
13 livestock by state definition, and horse is also livestock according to Ags. & Markets . 4 The board discussed ,
14 the definition of a farm, versus raising one or two horses .
15 The board continued to discuss the ordinance. The board will consider the possibility of a B1 and B2
16 district. Viola Miller will try to attend the Town Center committee meeting the following night. Torn
17 Niederkorn will make the changes discussed.
18 David Hatfield motioned to adjourn at 10 : 00 PM. Lin Davidson seconded. VOTE : ALL IN FAVOR
19 MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY .
20 The next meeting will be held on Monday, February 12 , 2001 .
2 I Submitted by Robin Cornell
1
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