HomeMy WebLinkAbout2000-10-09 1
Town of Lansing
•
3 Monday , October 9 , 2000 7 : 30 PM PLANNING BOARD
4 PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS
5 ranocapmscnl)
6 * Brad Griffin, Chair * Jacoba Baker
? * Larry Sharpsteen * Lin Davidson
8 Viola Miller * David Hatfield
9 $ Gregg Travis
l0
I I * Bud Shattuck, Town Councilman
12 * George Totman, Zoning and Code Enforcement Officer
13 Public Present
14 Ronald Parks 125 Triphammer Terrace
15 Phil Skeps 80 Triphanmier Terrace
16 Mark McKane 150 Buck Rd
17 Marian Partridge 15 Brickyard Rd
18 Candis Bailey 56 Triphammer Terrace (Gaslight 8F)
19 Agnes Zavaski 144 Buck Rd
20 Robert Zavaski 144 Buck Rd
21 Karen Edelstein 397 Salmon Creek Rd
• Paul Costantini 1 Whispering Pines Drive
23 Walter Poland 7 Triphammer Terrace
24 Janet Keefe 4 Dandyview Heights
25 Caroline Rasmussen 127 Asbury Rd
26 Dennis Osika 25 Dandyview Heights
27 Douglas McEver 21 Drake Rd
28
29 GENERAL BUSINESS
30 Brad Griffin opened the meeting.
31 Approval of Minutes of 9/25/00 Page 2, Line 37 . . . . Brad Griffin corrected . . . Mr. McKaiie . . . Jackie Baker
32 moved to accept the minutes as amended. Gregg Travis seconded. VOTE: ALL 1N FAVOR . MOTION
33 CARRIED
34 Lakeview Subdivision - Discussion on the letters from the Town Engineer and the Highway Supt .
35 Brad Griffin stated that he found the reviews encouraging. Brad stated that they were very specific and dealt
36 with substantial elements and offered very good guidance. Brad Griffin stated that George Totman gave him a
37 letter tonight for the Lakeview Subdivision and asked if every one had a copy. The Board reviewed to see if
38 the letters dealt with the issues that were still pending . George Totman stated that the engineers and
39 representative from Barden & Robeson met with the have Herrick on Friday afternoon and they made the
40 changes that Dave wanted and brought the map back this afternoon . Brad Griffin stated that Mr. Herrick
41 indicated that the swale adjoining Mr. Parks parcel will be encumbered by deed restrictions to limit alterations
to the swale, alignment or geometry and that language will be added to the final subdivision plat to clearly
indicate that Lots 12, 13 , 20 and 31 were encumbered . Brad asked if that had been done . George Totman
44 replied that they agreed to it Friday afternoon and that they are doing it. Brad Griffin stated that he would like
45 to see some indication of that.
gal
2 Town of Lansing Plannink Board, October 9. 2000
Larry Sharpsteen asked if Dave Herrick said anything about the current status of the swale . George Totman
2 stated that Dave Herrick has walked it and will go back up and walk it with them this week to see if there are •
3 any high spots .
4 John Hicks, Subdivision , Tax Map #R 42. 4- 1 . 12
5 Brad Griffin asked if anyone else had a copy of the comments of the Hicks Subdivision. Bud Shattuck stated
6 that he did . Brad stated that, generally, the Town Engineer echoed Gregg Travis ' s statement about what
7 should be demonstrated and shown on the map.
s
9 Whispering Pines Subdivision - Larry Sharpsteen asked about comments on the water systems in the
10 Whispering Pines Subdivision. Larry stated that i.t seems to him that when they did the Horizons Subdivision ,
11 water and sewer hook-ups were to be made available which meant a corporate stop for the water and a "T"
12 with a plug for the sewer at each lot line. Larry stated that he wondered if the other subdivisions were being
13 held to the same standard, as a minimum., in areas that have water, Brad Griffin stated thatwould be a
14 question for the Town Engineer. Brad Griffin stated that there was a water pressure problem in that area.
15 Lally Sharpsteen agreed . George Totman stated that because they are so close to the tower they are going to
16 combine two districts together to take care of part of the pressure problems . Larry Sharpsteen asked if George
17 Totman remembered requiring the corporate stops. George Totman replied that he does not remember doing
18 that.
19
20 Review of the Land Use Ordinance
21 Brad Griffin welcomed Tom Niederkorn. Brad Griffin stated that before they passed out the modified
22 ordinance to everyone he wanted to alert them to one change he made since the last meeting without the
23 consensus of the board. Brad Griffin stated that they had discussed the notifications for a P . D . A. in a zone and •
24 they took the view that notification should be made to adjoining owners within five business days with a public
25 hearing. Brad stated that in the procedure there are two other public hearings . Brad stated that it dawned on
26 him that they had set up a time for a hearing when there would not be any information to exchange. Brad also
27 added that it had been brought up that there was still a bump in the road regarding P. D. A. ' s as far as definition
28 in the R I zone. Brad stated that view might prevail, either with this Board or the Town Board . Brad added
29 that to date, the majority of the members of the Planning Board would like to maintain that flexibility.
30
31 Bract Griffin stated that this is the first time the Planning Board has seen this recommended modified
32 ordinance . Brad explained that to a large degree, this is the framework of the draft ordinance that was
33 presented to the Town Board two years ago. Tom Niederkorn stated that he brought 25 copies as requested .
34 ' He gave one to each Planning Board member and saved some for the Town Board, and asked how they wanted
3i to disperse the rest of them. Brad Griffin replied that they would give them to some long time attendees. Brad
36 Griffin stated that he would also like to point out that they have received a lot of mail , some of which were
37 from people that would like their zones to be re-zoned and he hoped that everyone would agree that until they
38 have dealt with the basic structure in definition of what the zones mean , it would be premature to dive into that
39 business now. Brad added that he would personally reply to those who wrote regarding that kind of change.
40
41 Tom Niederkom explained that he took the green copy that was revised November 10, 1997 and made the
42 changes the Planning Board discussed at the previous meeting. Torn stated that he and Brad went over the
43 ordinance to make sure Toni had all the changes . Torn stated that in doing so they realized that the third public
44 hearing for the P . D . A. ' s just did not make any sense . Tom stated that he and Brad agreed that it was
43 unnecessary. Torn stated that this ordinance deals with the issue about the moratorium as weft Torn stated
46 that the one thing that they did not do was to modify the map in. anyway. Tom explained that there are 2 maps
47 attached, one being the original proposal , the other the current one .
48
r
3 Town of Lansing Planning Board. October 9. 2000
1 Toni Niederkom explained that in dealing with the moratorium, they made some changes in Schedule I. Tom
explained that conversion of an existing dwelling into three or four dwelling units would be permitted under
Special Conditions including Site Plan Approval in all zones except iR. Torn also explained that multi-family
4 dwellings , including apartments and condominiums and also townhouses would not be permitted in LI , RI ,
5 173 , or IR, but would be allowed under Special Conditions including Site Plan Approval in RA, R2 , and B1 .
6
7 Tom Niederkom stated that P.D . A. ' s should not be looked upon as a way to circumvent the zoning regulations.
8 Toni explained that a P. D . A. has many controls such as 2 public hearings. The Planning Board reviews and
9 makes recommendations to the Town Board, the Town Board holds a public hearing on it, the Town Board has
to to agree on it and send it back to the Planning Board for final Site Plan Approval , the Planning Board would
i 1 have to agree on it and then hold another public hearing.
12
13 Gregg Travis asked if P . D. A. ' s are used in neighboring towns. Torn replied that it is used in the Town of
14 Ithaca, Town of Danby and in Dryden. Tom stated that other towns might have old-fashioned zoning or none
15 at all . Torn stated that this is a relatively new technique to allow things to happen that are unique and outside
t6 the rigid box of zoning . Torn Niederkom stated that it has been in the Town of Lansing ' s zoning ordinance
17 since the beginning. Walter Poland asked if P. D . A ' s are restricted to certain zones in other towns . Torn
18 replied that they might be.
19
20 Nancy Loncto asked if it was possible to make the area of notice larger than just contiguous neighbors . Ms .
21 Loncto stated that her concern was that in some case there may be as little as 3 or 4 contiguous property
22 owners and that would not be representative. Torn Niederkom replied that it was possible to select a certain
23 radius to include in the notifications. The recommendation from the public was a 600 ' radius, not only for a
24 P . D . A. , but for subdivisions as well. Gregg Travis stated that he received a letter from Torn LaVigne, a
• member of LLRD , giving his opposition to a P. D. A. and his main concern was worrying about the Ronsvalle
26 apartment complex. Paul Costantini gave an example of problems they encountered with a P. D. A. in Dryden .
27 Larry Sharpsteen replied that one of the two successful P. D . A. 's in Lansing was an increase in density in an RI
28 district. Larry stated that to the credit of the Town Board and the Planning Board, it was passed. Larry added
29 that he did not think that anybody here, judging the Planning Board by their past record, using that as an
31i example , would take exception to the results of that P . D. A . Larry stated that it was the Horizon' s Subdivision ,
31 in which the increase in density was answered by modified cluster housing with open space. It was suggested
32 that it would be more effective to erect a sign on such a property to alert the neighborhood of something like
33 that rather than just a legal notice.
34
35 The board discussed the map. Brad Griffin stated that they have a responsibility to make some timely
36 recommendation to the Town Board.
37
38 Larry Sharpsteen moved that the draft ordinance as revised September 26, 2000, be submitted for
39 consideration to the Town Board for a total change to the current Land Use Ordinance. Larry added that with
40 that ordinance, consideration of some of the changes, the Town Board be issued both of the maps for
41 consideration and illustration of the thought that the Planning Board had behind the original unit designation.
42 Lin Davidson seconded. VOTE ; ALL IN FAVOR. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY .
43
44 Mr. Kallfelz suggested changing the definition of the R1 district to better reflect the residential community that
45 is located in that district. The board discussed the definition and decided that it should read " . . . . where
46 concentrations of nonfarm development, primarily residential , have also occurred . "
' 48 The board discussed changing the minimum lot size in R3 to 40 , 000 sq . ft. per dwelling unit so that it is
49 consistent with RI . Gregg Travis stated that in R3 mobile home parks are permitted and he did not see how
50 one could have a mobile home park if there had to be 40 , 000 sq. ft. per dwelling unit. Larry Sharpsteen replied
51 that he thought there was a overriding ordinance, the town mobile honkie park ordinance, and he does not think
4 Town of Lansing Planning Board, October 9, 2000
1 this ordinance would supercede that ordinance. Larry stated that was how it was explained to them previously.
2 Torn Niederkom referred to the first footnote on Schedule l:I. and stated that what it means is that the provisions •
3 of the mobile home park ordinance , if they are less or different, they would take precedence .
4
5 Brad Griffin stated that people will still have comments or suggestions on the draft ordinance and they could
6 direct those comments to either the Town Board or to the Planning Board . Brad Griffin suggested that any
7 comments should be in no later than October 23 , 2000. Tom Niederkom stated that the Town Board would
8 probably want to have the public hearing the first week of December, and before that they would have to have
9 the notification time, and it has to be referred to the County and the County has 30 days to review it, Tom
10 Niederkom stated that if on October 23 , 2000, they will have completed what they want to turn over to the
11 Town Board, the Town Board would have plenty of time to act on it.
12
13 Committee Reports
14
15 Planning Federation — Viola Miller stated that the Planning Federation has been working hard at getting some
16 things set up through the County Planning Department, for November 6 at the Ramada Inn. Brad Griffin
17 stated that he thought it would be a good one for everyone to attend. Viola Miller stated that she would hope.
18 that members of the Town Board would attend as well .
19 EMC- Larry stated that at the last meeting they decided not to act on the preliminary plans on Southwest Park ,
20 Privilege of the Floor •
21 Mr . Parks asked if the Town Engineer was still looking into his allegation that the swale runs uphill . George
22 Totman replied that the Town Engineer was going to meet representatives up there to look at it, preferably on a
23 rainy day. •
24 Larry Sharpsteen motioned to adjourn at 9i RPM . Lin Davidson seconded . VOTE : ALL IN FAVOR.
25 MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY .
26 The next meeting will be held on October 23 , 2000 at 7 : 00 PM .
2 ? Submitted by Robin Cornell
St
r
I
•
Town of Lansing
Monday , October 9 , 2000 7 : 30 PM PLANNING BOARD
4 PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS
5 ('Daudet prosa t)
6 * Brad Griffin, Chair * Jacob;► Baker
7 * Larry Sharpstccn * Lin Davidson
S Viola Miller * David Hatfield
9 * Gregg Travis
10
I I Bud Shattuck, Town Councilman
12 * George Tatman, Zoning and Code Enforcement Officer
13 Public Present
14 Ronald Parks 125 Triphammer Terrace
15 Phil Skeps 80 Triphammer Terrace
ri Mark McKane 150 Buck Rd
17 Marian Partridge 15 Brickyard Rd
I S Candis Bailey 56 Triphammer Terrace (Gaslight 8F)
19 Agnes Zavaski 144 Buck Rd
20 Robert Zavaski 144 Buck Rd
21 Karen Edelstein 397 Salmon Creek Rd
• Paul Costantini 1 Whispering Pines Drive
23 Walter Poland 7 Triphammer Terrace
24 Janet Keefe 4 Dandyview Heights
25 Caroline Rasmussen 127 Asbury Rd
26 Dermis Osika 25 Dandyview Heights
27 Douglas McEver 21 Drake Rd
28
29 GENERAL BUSINESS
30 Brad Griffin opened the meeting.
31 Approval of Minutes of 9/25/00 Page 2, Line 37 , . . . Brad Griffin corrected . . . Mr. McKane . . . Jackie Baker
32 moved to accept the minutes as amended . Gregg Travis seconded . VOTE: ALL TN FAVOR. MOTION
33 CARRIED
34 Lakeview Subdivision - Discussion on the letters from the Town Engineer and the Highway Supt.
35 Brad Griffin stated that he found the reviews encouraging. Brad stated that they were very specific and dealt
36 with substantial elements and offered very good guidance. Brad Griffin stated that George Totman gave him a
37 letter tonight for the Lakeview Subdivision and asked if every one had a copy. The Board reviewed to see if
38 the letters dealt with the issues that were still pending, George Totman stated that the engineers and
39 representative from Barden & Robeson met with the Dave Herrick on Friday afternoon and they made the
40 changes that Dave wanted and brought the map back this afternoon.. Brad Griffin stated that Mr. Herrick
41 indicated that the swale adjoining Mr. Parks parcel will be encumbered by deed restrictions to limit alterations
to the swale, alignment or geometry and that language will be added to the final subdivision plat to clearly
indicate that Lots 12 , 13 , 20 and 31 were encumbered. Brad asked if that had been done. George Tounan
44 replied that they agreed to it Friday afternoon and that they are doing it. Brad Griffin stated that he would like
45 to see some indication of that.
.4
1/1 I. , II
2 Town of Lansing Planning Board, October 9, 2000
Larry Sharpsteen asked if Dave Herrick said anything about the current status of the swale. George Totman
2 stated that Dave Herrick has walked it and will go back up and walk it with them this week to see if there are •
3 any high spots.
4 John Hicks, Subdivision, Tax Map #
5 Brad Griffin asked if anyone else had a copy of the comments of the Hicks Subdivision . Bud Shattuck stated
6 that he did . Brad stated that, generally, the Town Engineer echoed Gregg Travis ' s statement about what
7 should be demonstrated and shown on the map .
8
9 Whispering Pines Subdivision - Larry Sharpsteen asked about comments on the water systems in the
t0 Whispering Pines Subdivision , Larry stated that it seems to him that when they did the Horizons Subdivision,
t t water and sewer hook- ups were to be made available which meant a corporate stop for the water and a "T"
12 with a plug for the sewer at each lot line. Larry stated that he wondered if the other subdivisions were being
13 held to the same standard, as a minimum, in areas that have water. Brad Griffin stated that would be a
14 question for the Town Engineer. Brad Griffin stated that there was a water pressure problem in that area.
15 Larry Sharpsteen agreed . George Totman stated that because they are so close to the tower they are going to
16 combine two districts together to take care of part of the pressure problems . Lany Sharpsteen asked if George
17 Totman remembered requiring the corporate stops . George Totman replied that he does not remember doing
18 that,
19
20 Review of the Land Use Ordinance
21 Brad Griffin welcomed Torn Niederkom . Brad Griffin stated that before they passed out the modified
22 ordinance to everyone he wanted to alert them to one change he made since the last meeting without the
23 consensus of the board . Brad Griffin stated that they had discussed the notifications for a P. D . A. un a zone and •
24 they took the view that notification should be made to adjoining owners within five business days with a public
25 hearing. Brad stated that in the procedure there are two other public hearings. Brad stated that it dawned on
26 him that they had set up a time for a hearing when there would not be any information to exchange. Brad also
27 added that it had been brought up that there was still a bump in the road regarding P . D . A. ' s as far as definition
21 in die It I zone . Brad stated that view might prevail , either with this Board or the Town Board . Brad added
29 that to date, the majority of the members of the Planning Board would like to maintain that flexibility .
30
31 Brad Griffin stated that this is the first time the Planning Board has seen this recommended modified
32 ordinance. Brad explained that to a large degree, this is the framework of the draft ordinance that was
33 presented to the Town Board two years ago. Tom Niederkom stated that he brought 25 copies as requested.
34 He gave one to each Planning Board member and saved some for the Town Board, and asked how they wanted
35 to disperse the rest of them. Brad Griffin replied that they would give them to some long time attendees . Brad
36 Griffin stated that he would also like to point out that they have received a lot of mail , some of which were
37 from people that would like their zones to be re-zoned and he hoped that everyone would agree that until they
38 have dealt with the basic structure in definition of what the zones mean, it would be premature to dive into that
39 business now. Brad added that he would personally reply to those who wrote regarding that kind of change.
40
41 Tom Niederkom explained that he took the green copy that was revised November 10 , 1997 and made the
42 changes the Planning Board discussed at the previous meeting. Torn stated that he and Brad went over the
43 ordinance to make sure Toni had all the changes. Torn stated that in doing so they realized that the third public
44 hearing for the P . D . A. ' s just did not make any sense. Torn stated that he and Brad agreed that it was
45 unnecessary. Torn stated that this ordinance deals with the issue about the moratorium as well . Tom. stated
46 that the one thing that they did not do was to modify the map in anyway. Tom explained that there are 2 maps
47 attached , one being the original proposal , the other the current one .
48
- . a . '
fa .
3
;town of Lansing P/win ng Bound, October 9 2000
1 Tom Niederkorn explained that in dealing with the moratorium, they made some changes in Schedule 1. Torn
0 explained that conversion of an existing dwelling into three or four dwelling units would be permitted under
Special Conditions including Site Plan Approval in all zones except IR. Tom also explained that multi-family
4 dwellings, including apartments and condominiums and also townhouses would not be permitted in Ll , R1 ,
5 R3 , or IR, but would be allowed under Special Conditions including Site Plan Approval in RA, R2, and Bl .
6
7 Torn Niederkorn stated that P.D . A. ' s should not be looked upon as a way to circumvent the zoning regulations .
8 Tom explained that a P. D. A. has many controls such as 2 public hearings. The Planning Board reviews and
9 makes recommendations to the Town Board , the Town Board holds a public hearing on it, the Town Board has
10 to agree on it and send it back to the Planning Board for final Site Plan Approval, the Planning Board would
1 1 have to agree on it and then hold another public hearing.
12
13 Gregg Travis asked if P. D. A. ' s are used in neighboring towns . Torn replied that it is used in the Town of
14 Ithaca, Town of Danby and in Dryden. Tom stated that other towns might have old-fashioned zoning or none
15 at all . Tom stated that this is a relatively new technique to allow things to happen that are unique and outside
16 the rigid box of zoning. Tom Niederkom stated that it has been in the Town of Lansing ' s zoning ordinance
17 since the beginning. Walter Poland asked if P . D . A ' s are restricted to certain zones in other towns . Torn
18 replied that they might be.
19
20 Nancy Loncto asked if it was possible to make the area of notice larger than just contiguous neighbors . Ms.
21 Loncto stated that her concern was that in some case there may be as little as 3 or 4 contiguous property
22 owners and that would not be representative. Tom Niederkorn replied that it was possible to select a certain
23 radius to include in the notifications . The recommendation from the public was a 600 ' radius, not only for a
24 P . D . A. , but for subdivisions as well . Gregg Travis stated that he received a letter from Torn LaVigne, a
member of LLRD, giving his opposition to a P. D . A . and his main concern was worrying about the Ronsvalle
' 6 apartment complex. Paul Costantini gave an example of problems they encountered with a P. D . A. in Dryden.
27 Larry Sharpsteen replied that one of the two successful P . D. A. 's in Lansing was an increase in density in an RI
28 district. Larry stated that to the credit of the Town Board and the Planning Board, it was passed. Larry added
29 that he did not think that anybody here, judging the Planning Board by their past record, using that as an
30 example, would take exception to the results of that P . D . A. Larry stated that it was the Horizon ' s Subdivision ,
31 in which the increase in density was answered by modified cluster housing with open space. It was suggested
32 that it would be more effective to erect a sign on such a property to alert the neighborhood of something like
33 that rather than just a legal notice.
34
35 The board discussed the map. Brad Griffin stated that they have a responsibility to make some timely
36 recommendation to the Town Board .
37
38 Larry Sharpsteen moved that die draft ordinance as revised September 26, 2000 , be submitted for
39 consideration to the Town Board for a total change to the current Land Use Ordinance . Larry added that with
40 that ordinance, consideration of some of the changes, the Town Board be issued both of the maps for
4 I consideration and illustration of the thought that the Planning Board had behind the original unit designation.
42 Lin Davidson seconded. VOTE : ALL 1N FAVOR. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY .
43
44 Mr. Kallfelz suggested changing the definition of the RI district to better reflect the residential community that
45 is located in that district. The board discussed the definition aid decided that it should read " . . . . where
46 concentrations of nonfarm development, primarily residential , have also occurred . "
P4 The board discussed changing the minimum lot size in R3 to 40 000 s . ft. per unit q dwelling so that it is
49 consistent with R1 . Gregg Travis stated that in R3 mobile home parks are permitted and he did not see how
50 one could have a mobile home park if there had to be 40, 000 sq. ft. per dwelling unit. Larry Sharpsteen replied
SI that he thought there was a overriding ordinance, the town mobile home park ordinance, and he does not think
-
s .�
4 Town of latsing flaming Board, October 9, 2000
t this ordinance would supercede that ordinance. Larry stated that was how it was explained to them previously.
2 Tom Niederkorn referred to the first footnote on Schedule 11 and stated that what it means is that the provisions •
3 of the mobile home park ordinance, if they are less or different, they would take precedence.
4
5 Brad Griffin stated that people will still have comments or suggestions on the draft ordinance and they could
6 direct those comments to either the Town Board or to the Planning Board. Brad Griffin suggested that any
7 comments should be in no later than October 23 , 2000. Tom Niederkorn stated that the Town Board would
s probably want to have the public hearing the first week of December, and before that they would have to have
9 the notification time, and it has to be referred to the County and the County has 30 days to review it. Torn
10 Niederkorn stated that if on October 23 , 2000, they will have completed what they want to turn over to the
11 Town Board, the Town Board would have plenty of time to act on it. •
12
13 Committee Reports
14
15 Planning Federation — Viola Miller stated that the Planning Federation has been working hard at getting some
16 things set up through the County Planning Department, for November 6 at the Ramada Inn . Brad Griffin
17 stated that he thought it would be a good one for everyone to attend. Viola Miller stated that she would hope
Is that members of the Town Board would attend as well.
19 EMC - Larry stated that at the last meeting they decided not to act on the preliminary plans on Southwest Park .
20 PrivileEe of the Floor
21 Mr. Parks asked if the Town Engineer was still looking into his allegation that the swale runs uphill . George
22 Totman replied that the Town Engineer was going to meet representatives up there to look at it, preferably on a
23 rainy day.
•24 Larry Sharpsteen motioned to adjourn at 9 : 18PM. Lin Davidson seconded , VOTE ; ALL IN FAVOR.
25 MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
26 The next meeting will be held on October 23 , 2000 at 7 : 00 PM.
2 ? Submitted by Robin Cornell
•