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TOWN of LANSING
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ORDINANCE DEPT-
Bos 186 Lansing , New York 14882 s,l � l Town Lansing
To I : Iiayo
Planning Board Meeting
5/8/00
7 ' 30 PM
Lansing Town Hai ! — Board Room
Agenda
0
Time: Agenda Topics
7:30 PM Open Meeting , Approve Minutes of 4/ 10/00
7 :45 PM Subdivision Request from Richard Page Jr.
Parcel C Tax Map # 1 .-1 -15. 31
Dick Thaler, Request for Whispering Pines Subdivision
Expansion , Tax Map #40.-3-2 . 1
Review Proposed Changes to the Town of Lansing Land
' Use Ordinance
Chairman 's Report & Committee Reports
Any Other Business One Deems Important to Bring before
the Board .
• Page 1
S
es
1
® tTown of Lansing
2
3 Monday, May 8 , 2000 ; 7 : 30 PM PLANNING BOARD
4 PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS
5 (•Denoto pracnt) n
6 * mr "Brad Griffin, Chair �� ' * Jacoba Baker
7 Larry Sharpsteen Lin Davidson
g * Viola Miller David Hatfield
9 * Gregg Travis
10
11 * Bud Shattuck, Town Councilman
12 * George Totrnan, Zoning and Code Enforcement Officer
13 PUBLIC PRESENT
14 Rick Page 212 Cedar Cove Rd
15 Richard Page, Sr . 210 Cedar Cove Rd
to Steve Barnes 615 Lansing Station Rd -
17
8 GENERAL BUSINESS
I9 Brad Griffin called the meeting to order at 7 : 30 PM .
20 Approval of Minutes of 4/ 1. 0/00- Page 2. L ine 25: . . Brad Griffin corrected . . . Lin asked if it was . . . Page 3. Line
21 33 . . . Brad Griffin corrected . . . classify subdivision as a major or minor . . . Page 4, Line 10 . . . Brad Griffin corrected
22 . . . that it is in the minutes . . . Jackie Baker moved to approve the minutes as corrected. Gregg Travis seconded .
23 VOTE: Gregg Travis . . . . Aye
24 Jackie Baker . . . . Aye
25 Brad Griffrn . . . . . Aye
26 Viola iMiller . . . . . Abstained
27
28 Larry Sharpsteen entered at 7 : 35PM
29 DISCUSSION ON PROPOSED CHANGES TO THE LAND USE ORDINANCE
30 Gregg Travis stated that on Page V- 10 , footnote * * * should state that the frontage may be reduced . Brad Griffin
31 agreed . That footnote would read as follows :
; 2 R • " When the applicant is faced with limits arising from road configuration or natural features , frontage may be
33 reduced , on a case-by-case basis with a decision by the appropriate hoard , but in no case less than the flag lot
34 requirement of 20 '. (i. e. cul-de-sac, corner lot, flag lot)
35
36 Brad Griffin read footnote 1 . Brad stated that the question arises as to whether that truly gives good guidance to
37 someone coming in as an applicant. Brad asked if it was generally understandable , Larry Sharpsteen replied that it
dr was not,
that it is confusing. The board discussed the footnote . The Board agreed to the following change :
39 I . While required lot frontage for multiple family dwelling units in areas served by public sewers is a minimum of 75
40 feet, it does not have to be greater than 125 feel
41
•
2 Town of Lansing Planning Boarcl,May 8, 2000
1 Brad Griffin stated that in Sec. 401 . 1 , the word "follow" might lead a reasonable person to believe it follows it in a
2 central way . The Board discussed it . Brad Griffin stated that you would have to take both 401 . 1 and 401 . 3
3 together to understand it. Larry Sharpsteen asked why 401 . 3 would not replace 401 . 1 . Larry stated that it is
4 redundant . Larry suggested deleting Sec. 40L1 . Viola Miller stated that they could combine them . Brad Griffin
5 agreed . Brad stated that they would conk back to that.
6
7 Rick Pantie, Subdivision Request ,Tax Map # 1.2.- 1-15.31 - Dick Page stated that Rick Page was unavailable to
8 attend the meeting tonight . Dick Page introduced Kellie Page, who is a co-applicant for the subdivision . Mr . Page
9 passed out copies of the new map with the requested corrections and additions , Mr . Page stated that they have
10 named the new road , it is going to be called Old Orchard Road . Gregg Travis suited that on one section of the map
11 the road looks to be wider than the rest of the road and he was wondering why it seems to be wider . Mr. Page
12 stated that Roger Sovocool , the owner of that property, wanted it that way because that area is a stream crossing
13 with a very large culvert.
14 Dave Hatfield entered at 7 :47 PM
15 Gregg Travis stated that, just for reference, the contours on the map are 20-foot contours . Brad Griffin asked what
16 the fire and emergency vehicle accessibility to the lot is . Mr . Page explained that the north end of the road is a
17 paved and maintained road , Mr. Page stated that the part of the road that they built is to Dave Herrick ' s
18 specifications . Mr , Page explained the size of the culvert . Larry Sharpsteen asked if they used a barrier cloth . Mr .
19 Page replied that they did . Larry Sharpsteen stated that with trucks bringing in gravel , with a barrier cloth over the
20 sub -grade, he would not have any problems with stating the emergency vehicles could travel over that. Brad Griffin
21 asked if Mr. Page had sought the advice of the fire district because they are the ones that ultimately decide where
22 thele vehicles can go . George Tolman stated that he has to do that before he could issue the first building permit
23 anyway. Mr . Page stated that what is not shown on the map, but that he thinks is relevant is that. the road does not
24 dead end there, it goes on over to Cedar Cove Road and then out to Algerine Road . Mr. Page stated that there are
25 two ways to get there . George Totman stated that he and the Town Board used the senior citizens ' van yesterday
26 and they went in from Milliken Station Road and out through Algerine Road . Gregg Travis asked what the actual
27 cross section of the road is . Mr. Page replied that it is 15 feet wide and they built it to whatever Dave Herrick told
28 them to as far as depth of crusher run, limestone, etc. Dick Page stated that Mr. Sovocool hired Dave Herrick to
29 advise him on culverts and what kind of fabric and materials to use and they talked about various alternatives .
30 Dick Page stated that Dave Herrick has been down there is the past little while, although Dick did not see him .
31 George Tolman stated that Dave called him today and Dave has not been down there recently. Dave Herrick told
32 George that Mr. Sovocool had contacted him and he laid it out for Mr . Sovocool , but he has not been back since .
33 Dick Page apologized arid suited that he had understood that he had been clown there . George Totman stated that
34 Dave Herrick feels that it was done the \vay he told Mr . Sovocool to do it .
35 Larry Sharpsteen stated that it looks as though everything they asked for at the last meeting is indicated on the
36 plans . Larry Sharpsteen moved to accept this application as a preliminary plat of a subdivision . Gregg Travis
37 seconded . VOTE: ALL IN FAVOR , MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY
38 The public hearing was set for June 12 , 2000 at 7 :45PM .
39 The Board reviewed the SEQR . Brad Griffin suggested Mr. Page contact the fire department . Brad Griffin also
40 stated that he would like to seek the advice of legal council before signing the final subdivision map . Brad stated
41 that it relates to his ignorance of the law regarding a piece of property that has no actual ownership and he is going
42 to need some advice on it . Dick Page stated that Rick and Kellie own 25 percent of the 100- foot width of property
43 that the road is on , Mr . Page thanked the board for their time .
44
45 Richard Tinier, Request for Whispering Pines Subdivision Expansion, Tax Map #40.-3-2. 1 - Dick Thaler
4110
46 stated that when they did the original subdivision they did one-acre lots. Dick stated that was fine for the first two .
47 phases. They are into the wooded area of the parcel and they felt thatthey could leave more trees standing if they
48 made the lots larger. Dick stated that they would also not need to get. a variance to put in a sand filter like they did
3 Down of Lansing Planning Board,.May 8, 2000
1 with the previous lots if they were 2-acre lots. Dick Thaler explained that during this phase they are going to be
�2 starting out with three lots next to the lastphase and they are also asking that the Planning Board approve the
3 addition to the subdivision of the property he bought along Warren Road. Dick stated that they have 3 lots planned
4 for that area. Dick Thaler stated that the concept is that they will eventually complete the entire area, where it i.s
5 blank right now, plus the area to the north that was in the original map that was approved . Dick stated that they
6 would continue to enable the people who owned the lots that are next to, south and west of them to hook in their
7 road so that they can go to Warren Road . Dick added that they will be able to join Water District 9 and Water
8 District 14 in order to stabilize pressure in that area. Dick Thaler stated that it is his opinion that what he is asking
9 for is just a revision of the original plan increasing the lots, and adding the Warren Road property to the subdivision.
10 Dick stated that Mr. Fabroni could answer any engineering questions.
i Larry Sharpsteen asked if it is Mr . Thaler ' s intention, when the time earns ; to make the remaining property into 2 -
12 acre lots . Dick replied that the rest of the lots would be 2-acre lots . Larry Sharpsteen asked if when the Warren
13 Road lots are sold, would Mr. Thaler sell thentwith the direction that the buyers make provisions to abandon the
14 Warren Road driveways and hook onto the paper road he has planned for this development. Mr . Thaler said no, he
15 does not think so because the road will not go in back of the first 3 lots . Dick Thaler explained that the reason they
16 are starting with these lots is because they basically already have the utilities available to them right now . Larry
17 Fabroni explained the drainage situation . Larry Sharpsteen stated he would feel a lot more comfortable if they had
18 it in writing that it was Mr. Thaler 's intention to carry the road out to Warren Road . Mr. Thaler stated that it was
19 already a matter of record in the Town Board minutes , he made that commitment 8 - 10 years ago . Larry Sharpsteen
20 stated that they had thought it was for another subdivision too, but he just wanted to have it in the Planning Board
21 minutes as well . Dick Thaler stated that that was fine.
22 Larry Sharpsteen moved to accept the application as a preliminary plat for Phase Ill -A of the Whispering Pines
0 subdivision . Viola Miller seconded . VOTE : ALL Tri' FAVOR. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY .
24 The public hearing was set for June 12 , 2000, at 8 : 15 PM .
25 The Board completed the SEQR.
26 Zoning Officer Report- George Tolman stated that he and the Town Board members went on a tour of the town ,
27 keeping in mind the ordinance about debris yards aid junk cars . George stated that he wanted the Town Board to
28 see some of the places he planned to send letters to before he sent them out. George explained that there were some
29 places that would need more than just a letter from the zoning officer because you may have to condemn a building .
30 George stated that he showed the Town Board ones that lie knew about, and they showed him some ones that he
31 was unaware oh
32 Privilege of the Floor
33 Glenn Strauf and Dwight Ushenvood introduced themselves . Brad Griffin stated that Mr. Strauf owns G &.L
34 Trucking and the salt pad north of Baker's Acres . Glenn suited that they came because they thought their salt pad,
35 might be an area of discussion . Larry Sharpsteen replied that he d.id not think it would come up, but one of the
36 things they were going to be discussing was site plan review in the Rural Agricultural area and Glen may have
37 some valuable input on that.
38 Gregg Travis asked if the salt pad was a concrete base . Dwight tlshrnrnod stated that it is basically an asphalt pad
39 on a gravel base and it is designed and built specifically for the purpose that it is there . Dwight stated that the salt
40 is in one large bulk pile and it is covered . Dwight stated that obviously, during the winter, when de- icing is en
41 issue, they haul it out of there.
42 Viola Miller stated that they have a lot of problem with wind . Dwight replied that he does not think they do .
w Dwight explained that why they were here is because they have been hearing a lot of stuff about what their facility
rw is and how it is operated . Viola Miller stated that she has seen in Dwight stated that they were there to answer any
45 questions , because often times people will make accusations or assumptions with lack of information . Viola Stiller
46 stated that she was thinking about what was coming up in the future. Viola Miller stated that. there was going to be
47 &iii* mom stringent regulations regarding wastewater. Larry Sharpsteen stated that the D . E . C . has already
48 approved their drainage . Dwight stated that the D . E . C . has inspected the sightptonk the tour and asked for en
arp
4 ?own o f ,crn.sin5: Planning Boarduv N. 2000
engineer's environmental impact site, which they submitted to the D . E. C . Dwight stated that. they have no problems
2 with it . Dwight stated that they monitor it and at this time they apparently meet with their approval of how the
3 D . E. , wants . Itdone ,
4 Bud Shattuck stated that he heard the sante things . Bud stated that if hag the: winds are prevailing out of the
5 northwest_ how much rain or wind would actually pick up any salt and carry it . Dwight stated that it would not
b carry a mild or two at leg . Larry Sharpsteen stated that it is mostly a dry plume and it probably vwwoul4 carry no
7 more than a mile or pew. Dwight Usherwood stated that they have agricultural property right there and anyone can
8 sec that ,it is doing fine.
9 harry Sharpsteeo stated that it is also becoming an issue with the pad that Cargill has across the gorge on Teeter
10 load . ' Larry stated that the people in those developments are already having a great deal oftrouble with what they
perceive as wind blown plumes from those piles . Larry stated that they have developed now piles Op on top of the
I2 hill , between the quare' and the .Asbury gorge. Larry stated that they access it through Cayuga Crushed Stone_
13 Larry stated that you Con Do down Teeter Road and take a look at it, it makes Glow ' s look like a teapot.. Larry
14 stated that back when the State started requiring municipalities to enclose choir salt, it was not just water run-off it
13 was the windblown plume . Larry stated that the windblown plume is a problem and ii is more of a problem for
16 people that aro closer to the gilt . Dwight stated chat to add to that, he thinks a wing on a snowplow would have
i7 more effect on a given property than the actual minute amount of dust that is carried in the air. Larry kharpsten
IS agrcxcl , Larry Sharpatoeo stated that the erect that tho people are concerned about with the dust is the blanketing
lb effect and then the long-team be ilk up . Larry stated that the corn they have next to their pad might not show
20 anything now, might riot shotty anything for a few years , Lars- stated that corn leas a little bit different retention
21 quality than dons a maple true or shrubbery _ Dwight stated that they specifically planted oats there the first year
22 because they are the most sensitive agricultural product end there were no problems _ Dwight stated that the iww
23 yea • they planted hay and there were no problems . Dwight stated that they put soy beans there the Following year
24. and again, no problem . Dwight stated that this year they have gone back to hay and some more corn . Dwight
25 explained that they have planted various types of agricultural products to see, because they do not want to affect
26 their neighborlsook .
27 Viola lvliller asked how close the brook comes to the pad, because seater can carry sail . Dwight replied that yes it
28 can and the brook_ in one particular arca is probably as close as 150 to 2211 yards . Dwight stated that the wind that
29 they are talking about would be blowing the opposite direction , Dwight said that a water sLunpie is tested monthly .
30 Dwight stated chat through monitoring the water, the salt is not the biggest problem in the community in that eater ,
3 I Dwight added that there are other things being carried downstream in that water that arc a growing problem, Far
32 more than the minor wnnaunts of salt that arc found . Dtwiyht stated that that is not on issue that has to do with therm ,
33 but he thinks that at tiros they are: unfairly accused .
34 Gregg Travis stated that he assumes they have an operating plan that requires thorn to keep it covered . Dwight
35 Dshcrwood responded that they do , they cower it; as time will allow. Dwight explained that this year they are going
36 to make some changes to the covering process , Dwight stated that in the past they have stacked it and as they cam
SO forward, they eoaered it all at once . Dwight stated that this year they are going to stage re.rtr it, they are taking
38 steps to be able to cover it sooner .
39 Brad Griffin asked Mr.r. Ushermwood if he had developed an outline for an operating plan , instead of tD _ E . C , , if he
40 thought he could have done a better job than the D . D . D . Dwight replied that the D . E . C . was concerned about the
41 whole facility , of any materials leaving the properly . Jackie Baker stated that the I) . lj _ C . mover came before it was
42 built . Dwight replied that no , they did not cone before it was built _ Dwight stated that w far as they Drawn it was
43 not. necessary . Dwight explained that the engineer that designed the facility had designed 25 or 27 of them all over
44 the state _ Glenn &raj stated that the eeginwr that designed it awes an environmental engineer , Olen stated that
this man had built therm all over, never cowered a pile and never got a complaint about any airborne pollutant.
44 Dwight Llsherwood explained that. Choy live hi this community , have kids in the school here and they are ,just as 1111V
47 concerned about their neighbors as their neighbors are about them . Dwight stated that the biggest problem is the
42 ignorance factor . Dwight stated that there are questions to be asked and arrstoers to be given provided that they
49 knows that the}' are asked ,
-.y
5 Town of Lansing Planning BoardMay 8, 2000
1 Glenn Strauf stated that they have swales running down both sides of that pad and no water can come off of that
pile unless it goes into that pond . Dwight explained how the ditches take any water run off down to the pond .
3 Dwight stated that they pump the pond and take the water down to Cargill where the salt is separated from the
4 water. Dwight stated that they do not have any plans to continue to do more salt pads, but that does not mem they
5 will never do more.
6 Larry Sharpsteen asked Dwight and Glenn what questions they have aboutsite plan review_ Dwight stated that L
7 right now he has limited knowledge as to what is involved . Larry Sharpsteen stated that the way the ordinance was
8 originally written, any commercial or industrial action in most of the town would require site plan review. Larry
9 explained that under site plan review, a number of things were looked at such as lighting, access , traffic, drainage
10 and things like that . Larry stated that because of certain things that were going on at the time, the Town Board did
I I not want to have that extended into the Rural Agricultural area because of the perception that it was a control .
12 Larry Sharpsteen stated that the Town Board now feels that it is less of a control and more of a guarantee . Larry
13 stated that the things that are looked at and nobody, in any portion of the town, would be measured by any different
14 yardstick than another portion . Larry stated that what site plan does is affords protections for people that live in the
15 RA zone, that people that live in the other zones have. Brad Griffin stated that the concept is a level playing field
16 all across the town .
17 Dwight Usherwood stated that if there are questions that come up to the Town Board, Planning Board or the
18 community, please ask them . Dwight stated they are more than happy to answer them and they are always open for
19 suggestions . Brad Griffin thanked Dwight and Glenn for coming in .
20
21 Town Board Liaison - Bud Shattuck displayed the maps lie obtained from Dave Herrick . Bud explained the
22 overlays that are on the maps . The Board discussed the maps . Bud stated that for planning purposes; he would like
the Planning Board to be looking at the area from the B1 zone to the Village line . Larry Sharpsteen asked if the
Town Board would have arty objections to him taking the map to the E . M . C . meeting . Bud Shattuck stated that he
25 did not think there would be any objections .
26 Brad Griffin stated that they will hold their second meeting of the month on May 22, 2000 . Brad stated that it will
27 be a work meeting .
28 Viola Miller stated that she had a few announcements . Viola stated that on "Tuesday , May 9, there would be a
29 Planning Federation meeting and that Steve Whicher Wass going to be the speaker . Viola stated that on Thursday,
30 May 1 L there is a Planning Meeting at TC3 at 7 : 00PM . Viola added that there is also a meeting on storm water
31 regulations at the Ithaca Youth Bureau on May 24, 2000 ,
32 Larry Sharpsteen motioned to adjourn at 9 : 49 PM . Viola Miller seconded. VOTE: ALL IN FAVOR. MOTION
33 CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY ,
34 Submitted by Robin Cornell .
4