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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2000-03-27 To Sgreca Falls TO Auburn MN TOWN of LANSING `F " Home of Industry, Agriculture and Scenic Beauty Town of Lansing � :\ ORDINANCE DEPT. :\� N `t � i�I1/4 ' Town of Lansing Box 186 Lansing, New York 14882 titi 11 a TO Ithaca Planning Board Meeting 3/27/00 7 : 30 PM Lansing Town Hall — Board Room Agenda Work Meeting ® Time: Agenda Topics 7:30 PM Open Meeting Review consecutive pages of Town of Lansing Land Use Ordinance Committee Reports Any Other Business One Deems Important to Bring before the Board. • Page 1 „ . • I • Town of L• 3 Monday , March 27 , 2000 ; 7 : 30 PM PLANNING BOARD 4 PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS 5 ( •Detwtpresent) 6 * Brad Griffin. Chair * Jacoba Baker 7 Larry Sharpsteen * Lin Davidson 8 Viola Miller * David Hatfield 9 Gregg Travis I0 1 * Bud Shattuck, Town Councilman l2 * George Totman, Zoning and Code Enforcement Officer • 13 14 GENERAL BUSINESS I5 Brad Griffin called the meeting to order at 7 : 39 PM . 16 Approval of Minutes of 2/ 14/00- Page 4, Line 36. . . Brad Griffin clarified . . . Victoria Freile . . . Page 5, Line 17 12 . . . Bud Shattuck corrected . . . certainly be fleshed out . . . Lin Davidson motioned to accept. the minutes as corrected . 18 Jackie Baker seconded . VOTE : ALL [N FAVOR . MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY . Approval of Minutes of 3/ 2/00-Joint Meeting- Page 2, Line 12 . . . Lin Davidson corrected . . . back fence is now a 20 lawsuit: . . . Page 4, Line 5 . . . Lin Davidson corrected . . . parking and security . . . Line 46 . . . Lin Davidson 21 corrected . . . that was inojer-ly discussed . . , Page 6, Line 5 . . . Brad Griffin corrected . . . Steve stated that . . . line 22 29 . . . Bud Shattuck corrected . . . Department of Environmental Conservation . Lin Davidson motioned to accept the 23 minutes as corrected . Jackie Baker seconded . VOTE : ALL IN FAVOR. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. 24 Bud Shattuck stated that: they should take note of Page 3 , Line 11 in parenthesis . Bud stated that he thinks that was 25 prevalent during a lot of that meeting with a large group like they had . Lin Davidson suited that they should talk 26 one at a time. 27 Approval of Minutes of 3113100 - Page 1 , Line 30 . . . Lin Davidson. corrected . . . Discussion on Snyder Road . . . Page 28 , Line 12 . . . Brad Griffin corrected . . . nmake sure they were fully informed of the Special Conditions . . . Page 3, 29 Line 16 . . . March 27 , 2000 . . . Lin Davidson motioned to accept the minutes as corrected . Jackie Baker seconded . 30 VOTE : ALL IN FAVOR . MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. 31 Sweazev - Request for Zoning Change - Brad Griffin stated that basically what Mr. Sweazey is saying is that he 32 would like his property, 576 Ridge Road, changed from R2 to RA . Lin Davidson stated that he thought it was 33 pretty clear what they intended when they put the zone in there . Lin stated that Mr , Sweazey could go to the Zoning 34 Board of Appeals if he wanted to . Lin added that there is no question that it would be spot zoning if it were 35 changed . Bud Shattuck stated that he passed it along to the Town Board that there was not. a quorum at the last 36 meeting, but that it had been discussed and turned down, that the Planning Board had done a good .job in setting up 37 the zoning ahead of time and that is what it was meant for . Brad Griffin called for a vote to pass that along as 38 official advice as to whether they would agree there is not a sufficient compelling cause to move for rezoning . Bud 39 Shattuck added that there was a second request as well . The board reviewed that request. Brad Griffin asked who was in favor of denial of the zoning change_ VOTE: Lin Davidson . . . . . . . . . . . . . Aye Jackie Baker . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Aye 42 Brad Griffin . Ave 43 David Hatfield . . . . . . . . . . . . Abstained t 2 Town ofLansin.rs Planning Board. March 27 2000 I Rick Page, Subdivision Request- George Totman stated that Mr. Page will be in at the April meeting . George 2 explained that Cedar Cove has been accepted by the Town as a private road . George stated that until recently 3 private roads were considered to have only up to 4 parcels . George stated that he asked what the basis for the 4 lots • 4 was . George checked with the Town Attorney . The Town Attorney could not find anything in writing that would 5 substantiate what the Town Attorney told them in 1988 when it was brought up . George stated that he spoke with 6 Harry Willis From the Department of State and Harry had no idea what George was talking about with the 4 lots , it was never a state law, it has never been on the books , and they would lose a case in court . Rich John also called S Harry Willis . George stated that the Town'own Board talked about it and their feeling was as long as they put it in the 9 deeds that the owners are going to Forever maintain that road for fire and emergency vehicles and never ask the 10 Town to fix or plow the road, it would actually be a plus for the Town . George passed out copies of the Town I t Attorney ' s statement to the Town Board about it. 12 Lin Davidson asked if school buses were going to go up and down this road . George explained that school buses 13 arc not allowed to go on private roads . David Hatfield stated that the bus does not even go down to Sovocool Point 14 anymore . David stated that he drives that train down there and now they have children running across the track 1. 5 rather than an adult driving the bus across it. George explained that this protects the Town better than what 16 happened on Bill George Road . George stated that a Few years back, the insurance companies told the school 17 district that it was a private road and they could not drive their buses anymore on private roads . George stated that 18 because a lot of people were buying and building on that road, the Town came along and paved it and had been 19 taking care of it, but it is still a private road . George slated that the insurance company told the Town they could 20 not plow the road anymore because it was a private road . Jr brought a lot of people out to a 'Town Board meeting 21 because people had been living there for years , many of the properties had been sold several times . George stated 22 that the people that lived on that. road got a restraining order against the "Town stating that because the Town had 23 been maintaining it for years, until they could prove otherwise, the "Town had to maintain the road as if it were a 24 Town road . George stated that it gave the authority for the school buses to go back down and for the Town to 25 plow it . George stated that this is because it had been happening for years , now it is put in the deeds on private • 26 roads that they have to maintain the roads , 27 Brad Griffin stated that in regard to Mr. Page ' s subdivision , whether it is 15 feet or 20 feet, there would be an 28 obligation on the Board ' s part in reviewing that under the subdivision to be assured thatthere is usable access to 29 that property. George Totman responded that except for one of those lots, he has more than the required footage . Sri George explained that the only thing that needs to be done to make it meet the requirements is to make that other 31 road the same as the existing road , thea go to the Town and have them accept it as a private road . They discussed 32 the condition of the road . Brad Griffin asked what the standards are that Dave Herrick would pass along to a 33 developer for a private road in terms of width or crown _ George Totman stated that he is not an engineer and he 34 does not know. George stated that if the Town Board accepts it as a private road, then the Planning Board has to 35 accept it as well . Lin Davidson stated that he is not denying that because the Town is the boss , but added that there 36 is no way they could get 2 emergency vehicles to pass on that road. 37 DISCUSSION ON LAND USE ORDINANCE 38 Articles i - III — Brad Griffin stated that in the previous meeting, there were no changes suggested for Articles 1 - Il1 _ 39 Brad asked if there was any one who disagreed with that point of view. No one responded . tel Article IV 41 Sec 401 . 1 . - Brad Griffin stated that the next item is that Gregg Travis stated that to his understanding the Town 42 Board did not want the boundary lines to follow center lines of streets . Brad Griffin stated he thinks that is taken 43 out of context . Brad read 401 . 3 , and stated that indeed , perhaps that may not be clear, but that was the practice 44 that they followed . Brad stated that they began with a boundary such as a road , but it was always with a setback . 45 Brad Griffin stated that he does notthink the past or present Town Board, nor this Board , intended that a neighbor 46 would look across the street at a different zone. Brad Griffin asked if they need to clarify 401 . 1 . Lin Davidson • 47 stated that. he thinks it is pretty clear . Brad stated that they used the road for their base, but it was actually a line 48 parallel to the road . • I 3 Town of Lansing Plannine Board, March 27, 2000 I Suggested addition : it is the intent that a landowner on one side of a road, should not look across the road into 0 another zone of land use. Sec 401 . 3 . - Addition : (A 300 foot distance with a parallel line has been used as the setback in the majority of 4 cases . ) 5 Sec 402 . 7 , — Brad Griffin read the minutes of March 13 , 2000 regarding Gregg Travis ' s concern about the word 6 neighborhood in this section and the fact that there is no definition for a neighborhood in the appendix . Bract read 7 the definition from a Webster ' s dictionary . Brad suggested including the following definition in the appendix : 8 Neighborhood. A district or locality often with reference to its character or inhabitants . 9 Article V 10 Sec . 503 . Schedule I - Brad Griffin read Sec. 802 . 0 . George Totman explained that you have to look down through 11 the rest of the categories in Sec . 802 . to make sure it does not fall into one of those categories . George explained 12 that if it does not fit into one of those categories, then they can do it with a permit as long as it complies with the 13 zoning regulations for that area as far as setbacks and stuff like that. George stated that when the Town Board 14 went through this thing, they talked a lot about what has been happening in other areas . George stated that if you 15 are going to allow something in an area, you put in the things that you want there, then the Code Enforcement 16 Officer will check to make sure it is what is allowedt in that zone. George stated that a recent example of why the 17 Town Board did this is the situation with Tops in the Village . George explained that they went through about a 18 year of public hearings and other things and then Finally got approved for what they had asked for in the first place . 19 George stated that the Town Board, at the time, felt that if they are going to approve something like that, then why 20 discourage them from coming and making them spend all this money when you are going to pass it anyway . Lain 21 Davidson stated that it is just to make sure all the "i "s are dotted and the "t"s are crossed . David Hatfield agreed . 22 Brad Griffin asked if Sec . 802 . was simply an alert. George Totman replied that it was . Brad Griffin stated that 9Z the gist of this is that, despite Viola' s concern , this is not a burdensome reference but that. it may be helpful . Lin ® Davidson and David Hatfield agreed. 25 Page V-5 . Iters 26 & 28 - Viola Miller had suggested there should be asterisks indicating that site plan review is 26 required . Lin Davidson stated that it might not be a bad idea. George Totman stated that if they did what Viola 27 wanted to do they would have to look back at the rest of the ordinance to see what it would affect and go for a site 28 plan review. Lin Davidson stated that maybe that is something they need to look at. Lin added that it is something 29 that has certainly been recommended by the Town Board as something they thought was a good idea , Lin added 30 that they should not be punitive with site plan , but positive with it . Lin stated that there is a good chance retail 31 sales will generate a lot more traffic than a factory doing light manufacturing . 32 Brad Griffin stated that with the SEQR issue, when looking at both County and City government in this locality, 33 SEQR has been used in a very pathological way . Lin Davidson stated that it has been used punitively, but he is 34 saying they should not use it punitively, they should use it positively . Brad Griffin stated that when they sent the 35 draft to the Town Board , he thinks there was site plan review for any commercial operation anywhere in the town . 36 Larry Sharpsteen entered at 8 : 50 PM. Larry stated that he was attending another Town meeting which was booked 37 before this one was scheduled _ 38 Larry Sharpsteen agreed with Brad Griffin that in the draftthat was sent to the Town Board any commercial 39 development required site plan review. Bud Shattuck asked George Totman what his take on that was . George 40 replied that is correct, but the Town Board did not see it that. way. Brad stated that the point, the candidly makes is 41 that it is a new Town Board and they should give them a crack at it. Brad stated that he could play devil ' s advocate 42 on both sides of the issue . 43 George Totman stated that like he explained before, the Town Board said that if they arc going to approve it in an 4. area, then let them build it avid not have them go somewhere else. Larry Sharpsteen replied that zoning and site plan review, as a general mule, do riot prevent commercial enterprises from choosing a town as a location . Larry 46 stated that a lot of his real estate contacts say it is to the contrary, they prefer to know that when they put a place of 47 business i.n operation that its values are not going to be degraded . Larry stated that he was Chairman when they 48 submitted the draft of the zoning ordinance to the Town Board and he felt strongly that if they were going to have a 4 Town of Lansing Planning Board March 27. 2000 I zoning ordinance they should have one that was fair and had enough teeth in it to be fair to everybody . Larry added 2 that he felt that site plan review should be exercised on any commercial presence, other than the home enterprise, in • 3 the rural agricultural zone. Larry stated that the Town Board felt they could not pass it, they could not get anybody 4 to accept it if that were the case. Larry stated that his biggest beef with the whole thing was that the Planning 5 Board had one brief opportunity to express the reasons it felt that way and Larry felt their counsel was undermined 6 by another member of the Planning Board that felt differently . Larry Sharpsteen stated that he does not think you 7 have to look any farther than 100 feet from Jackie 's store to see the crying need for site plan review on commercial S ventures anywhere in the Town of Lansing . Larry stated that as much as he is against zoning in principal , he thinks 9 it is a crying shame and unfair to the very people who they are supposed to he protecting, not to have equal 10 protection for the people in RA that arc afforded to the people in the other areas . Larry Sharpsteen stated that the t t door was left opened and abuse happened . 12 Brad Griffin stated that maybe they should address in sonic philosophical way before the Town Board some 13 evening, both pro and con , to see what the current thinking of the Board is; before they do proceed with some large 14 number of what could be called "nit picking" changes . Brad Griffin asked if that would seem reasonable to Bud 15 Shattuck to seek a spot on the Town Board 's agenda . Bud Shattuck asked if they would like a spot in the near 16 future. David Hatfield asked if Larry had said there is site plan review now. Larry Sharpsteen responded that there. 17 is site plan review in other parts of the town . Larry Sharpsteen added that site plan is currently undertaken by the T 18 own Board . George Totman asked Brad if it was his intention to go through the whole ordinance. Brad responded 19 that what is he trying to do is rather than do that, which would be an exercise in frustration for them all , he thinks 20 would be to explore the issue philosophically . Brad stated that the point Larry had made and that was made in the 21 draft ordinance that they sent to the Town Board was that it would be a wider site plan review process even in the 22 RA zone with respect to commercial operations . Brad stated that he thinks it would be useful to talk to the Town 23 Board about it and accept their view before they go through and make a lot of dots in the book . Bud stated that the 24 talks they have had independently have been more along the line of saying they want to make sure things are done 25 right and site plan review falls into that . Bud Shattuck stated that personally his goal would be to move site plan • 26 review back to the Planning Board where it belongs and have them keep working . Bud added that, like he said in 27 the last meeting, he wants the Planning Board to start putting paper roads together and planning where the sewer is 28 going and if he keeps giving then things to do, having meetings twice a month would be a pretty standard thing . 29 Larry Sharpsteen stated that they need to bring their review of the ordinance to a head whether they wait to get a 30 general sense of how the Town Board feels or not, they do have to complete this . Larry stated that right now, he 31 wants them to finish one task before starting another . 32 Bud Shattuck stated that they have a meeting on April 5 , 2000 . Bud asked if there was room on that agenda would 33 they be prepared to bring something . Brad Griffin replied that they would . Brad stated that if he and Larry appear 34 at the Board meeting with 15 minutes cm the agenda and they describe this in a philosophical way as to whether it. is 35 worthwhile going ahead . Brad added that in the case of the former board, it was not an evil thing tbr them to turn it 36 down , he understands the political implications . Brad stated that one of the members seriously thought it would eat 37 up the Planning Board, that it would consume then and in some development scenarios it could . Lin Davidson 38 stated that he thinks they have a very defined site plan procedure of what is applicable . Lin stated that he thinks 39 that makes it a little less punitive and more defined . Brad stated that they will take April 7 `r' as a tentative date and 40 Bud will let one or the other know . Bud stated that they need to remember that he said it was his personal 41 preference and when they come before the Town Board it will be a challenge to them to move that to where they 42 want it to go . Larry Sharpsteen replied that if they could get site plan review in the areas of the ordinance that it 43 needs to be, it wasn ' t his thought at this time to get it switched to the Planning Board, what he would like to do is 44 see it structured properly for whoever applies it. Larry stated that he does agree that the Planning Board is the 45 proper place for it because they are not politically reactive . 46 Page V-7. Item # 6 - Viola Miller had previously stated she thought it should require a special permit, not. just 47 •special conditions . Larry Sharpsteen stated that if they look at Sec. $ 02 . ; it includes site plan review. Larry stated 48 that Special Conditions is one step ahead of site plan review, special conditions includes site plan review plus a 49 bunch of other hurdles . Larry Sharpsteen asked what the preliminary requirements for obtaining a special permit 50 is . Larry asked if site plan review was required . Larry stated that that seems like the biggest number of hoops to � . • • 5 Town of Lansing Planning Board. March 27, 2000 1 jump through , so Viola might be right on that. Lafry added that the DEC can be lax in seeing that over burden is returned and the area is regraded . Larry stated that they simply do not have that much manpower . 3 Paue V-7 , Items ti 6 & 7 — Gregg had previously stated that he was curious as to why the exploration is allowed 4 under special conditions , but if you look above the excavation is not allowed . Gregg had stated that it seems there 5 are inconsistencies . Larry Sharpsteen stated that it wasn ' t too many years ago that they were doing both salt and 6 gas borings at various places around here . Larry stated that had there been zoning , they would have had to obtain a 7 permit from the Town, as it was they had to obtain a permit from the State to do the exploration . Brad stated that 8 maybe Gregg' s question was that. in 5 of the zones, exploration is allowed, but mining is not. Lin Davidson stated 9 that they could always go for a variance. Larry' Sharpsteen stated that they could go for a variance or it could be 10 accessed by slant borings from an adjacent zone where that sort of excavation is allowable . 11 Pave V-9 . Sec. 504 . Schedule i.t — Brad Grifn stated that he would agree with Viola 's view on the 20 ' minimum 12 road frontage . Brad Griffin stated that he has always thought that 20 ' for a flag lot is an exception to a rule , Larry 13 Sharpsteen stated that he would go along with what is in R1 , 100 ' and 150 ' . They agreed it would be 150 ' for the 14 RA zone. Larry Sharpsteen stated he would suggest that it should be 100 ' and 150 ' for the R3 district . George 15 Totman stated that they have to have 150 ' radius for Health Department approval , but that does not mean they have 16 to have that much road frontage . Larry Sharpsteen stated that more to the point, they have developments in this 17 town with half million-dollar houses on . 7 acre lots with septic systems . Larry stated that when all the lots are 18 filled , it looks crowded, kind of like a Monopoly board . Jackie Baker stated that they like it that way . George 19 Totman agreed with Jackie _ George told Larry he was arguing against himself 5 years ago because Larry used to 20 be against that . Larry Sharpsteen replied that is not true , lie has always been for large lots . George Totman stated 21 that lie meant about letting people do what they want with their own property . Larry stated that they were beyond 22 that and he is a municipal official acting in his municipal capacity, personal feelings are out of it Larry added that 23 he has gone to the greater good for the greater number. Bract Griffin asked that they read through Article XII for the next meeting and they will pick up where they lett off. 25 OTHER BUSINESS 26 Bud Shattuck passed out a paper on the Rural Landowner Forum, being held in Trunansburg this weekend . Bud 27 left some information on the next Fall Creek Watershed Committee meeting . Bud stated that he assumed everyone 28 got invited to the Regional Planning 2000 meeting, but if not he will leave information on that . Bud stated that the 29 last thing he had for them was that he had spoken at the last meeting about attending a meeting held at the City of 30 Ithaca where the City and County Planners talked about their opinions and stuff. Bud stated that one of the things 31 that was started at that meeting was who did and did not have comprehensive plans and they said Lansing does not 32 have a comprehensive plan . Bud stated that he brought it in writing . Bud stated that it said that Lansing had a 33 tentative plan that was adopted in the 1990 ' s . Bud stated that he will leave a copy of that for thorn to pass around . 34 Larry Sharpsteen replied that they had one adopted in 1995 and before that they had one in 1972 . Bud stated that 35 this is coming from a special meeting with the County Planning with Joan Jurkowich . Larry stated that he thinks 36 that deserves a response advising them that they have had comprehensive planning in the Town of Lansing since 37 1972 . 38 39 Larry Sharpsteen motioned to adjourn at 9 : 50 PM . Jackie Baker seconded . VOTE : ALL IN FAVOR. MOTION 40 CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY . 4 I Submitted by Robin Cornell .