HomeMy WebLinkAbout2000-01-10 I
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Town of in
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3 Monday , January 10 , 2000 ; 7 : 30 PM PLANNING BOARD
4 PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS
5 (• Denac_1 present)
6 . • * Brad Griffin, Chair * Jacoba Baker
7 * Larry Sharpsteen * Lin Davidson
8 1 Viola Miller * David Lippert
9 * Gregg Travis
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11 - IF Bud Shattuck, Town Councilman
112 * George Tolman, Zoning and Code Enforcement Officer
13 1'UBLIC . PRFSENT
14 Matt Shulman
15 GENERAL BUSINESS
16 Brad Griffin called the meeting to order at 7 : 33 PM .
17 AD') royal of Minutes of 12/ 13/99- Page 3, Line 13 . . . Jackie Baker corrected . . . Bud Shattuck stated . . . Larry
18 Sharpsteen motioned to accept the minutes as amended. Lin Davidson seconded. VOTE : ALL IN FAVOR.
A . MOTION CARRIED UNANL1dOUSLY .
21 iilad Griffin passed to each Planning Board member a copy of the program plan . Brad explained that these ewer i
22 based on the exercise they went through assigning priority to the various items that would have to be undertaken .
23 E4tad stated that it was submitted with the 2000 budget request . Brad added that they had requested $ 5500 in
24 Contractual and $3500 Consultant, and what was approved was $5500 in Contractual and $2500 in Consultant
25 fees with the understanding that they could approach the supplemental request if they had a need to do that
26 Brad Griffin stated that he received a mailing from a farm organization suggesting he should send them $250 to
27 lobby against some new EPA pule making. Brad stated that it did not seem entirely logical to him that the taxes
28 taken out of one of his pockets to run the EPA would be supplanted by the other pocket lobbying against their
29 efforts. Brad. Griffin added that lie ssTOtc to his legislator to ask what those efforts might be. Dave Herrick
30 called Brad to tell him what is being proposed by the EPA would apparently replace the 5 -acre threshold
31 disturbance . Brad explained that the DEC acts as the EPA ' s agent and reviews the sites with over 5 acres of
32 disturbance . Brad stated that now the EPA is proposing that threshold be dropped to 1 acre. Brad stated that
33 Dave dropped off some information called the Storm \Vater Phase II Program . Brad added be would like to get
34 some more information to the members of the board so they might be in some position to advise the Town Boar:1
35 as to a reasonable reaction . Brad stated one would wonder, if even under the most well intentioned plan, it could
36 result in a lot of worthwhile things that should be looked at going by the boards as the workload of catching all
37 these little. 1 acre projects are concerned . Brad added that he would try to summarize for them some of the stuff
38 Dave Herrick gave to him.
39 Gregg Travis asked if Bract could describe what is meant by " disturbance". Larry Sharpsteen stated that he
40 thought he could comment on that. Larry stated that he has a complete set of the current regulations . Lar►v said
0 that , basically, it is a point source pollution of watershed due to sedimentation. Larry added that it deals with
disturbance of soil on construction sites that encompass anything larger than 5 acres. Larry agreed with Brad ' s
43 interprctation • that if the threshold was lowered to 1 acre, even a regular single residential building lot would be
44 subject to having to have a pollution sedimentation control plan including details of the silt bathers, catch basins ,
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2 Town of Lansing Planning Board, January 10, 1999
I settlement basins and meet a set of EPA generated specifications of all run off. Larry added that it sounds rather
2 far reaching. Larry stated that he has a set of the full regulations if anyone cared to take a look at them. Lin
3 Davidson asked if the trigger point is a full SEQR. Larry Sharpsteen responded that no, it is actually separate.
4 Larry explained that the SEQR is triggered by the development itself The other is triggered by size .
5 Viola Miller asked if other towns or villages might have something like that in place. Larry Sharpsteen
6 responded that they do not . Larry explained that it is not generated by the local municipalities. Jackie Baker
7 asked if this change would have triggered more watch over Cargill Salt and that type of operation. Larry stated
8 that it would not. Brad Griffin stated that it would seem to cast a much wider net for smaller targets rather than
9 the reverse. Larry stated that it would only have affected them in that they were working with an acre of land,
10 but would not have had anything to do with the salt. Brad Griffin stated that he would try to get more
11 information on it out to the members at the first opportunity. •
12 David Schwartz, Subdivision Request, Tax Map t#48.- 1 -8- George Totman introduced Mr. Schwartz. David
13 Schwartz gave the members an updated map of the proposed subdivision. David Schwartz explained that he
14 bought the property 15 years ago and at that time , there were 7 tenants. He converted one house into a 'single-
15 family residence and updated the other duplex, which he has been renting out ever since. David explained that he
16 is going to be selling the property in the near future . Mr. Schwartz explained that the property is already non-
17 conforming, as it does not have road frontage, but that it has a driveway right-of-way from the railroad , as do the
18 neighboring properties. David Schwartz explained that if the property were sold as one parcel it would clearly be
19 a one family residence with the other house being a rental . David added that it would be better for him, as well
20 as for the community , if he were able to sell it as two separate parcels. He stated there would be an opportunity
2i to have a long term resident with more vested interest in the community, probably keep the density down, and the
22 tax roles would probably be enhanced.
23 David Schwartz stated that the houses have separate utilities that would not be affected by the subdivision. David
24 added that each property would have it' s own septic system . Jackie Baker asked where the septic systems are
25 located . Mr. Schwartz pointed out their locations. Mr. Schwartz explained the parking areas for each property.
26 David Schwartz stated that the shrubs provide an effective barrier between the properties and that is why he drew •
27 the lot lines where he did. Gregg Travis stated that one of the properties has been given much more of the land
28 and added that because the propertieshave on site septic disposal systems, the health department likes to have
29 room for replacement systems. Mr. Schwartz stated that they would probably end up doing a raised system like
30 his neighbors have done, but that he thinks it would be fair to have a mutual set of easements between the two
31 properties . Viola Miller added that if the sewer thing is developed , that whole area would most likely have
32 sewer. Lin Davidson a&eed , but added that it is not there today.
33 Brad Griffin asked Mr. Schwartz if he was aware that there was no way this would meet the dimensional
34 requirements of the Town ordinance and that a negative determination from the Planning Board would be the
35 requirement needed to seek an appeal . David Schwartz replied that he was aware of that . Brad Griffin
36 questioned Mr. Schwartz' s comment on the benefit to the Town to have two owners of the property . Mr.
37 Schwartz stated that he thinks to convert it from a rental income property to a single family residence would be
38 an advantage to the community. Brad Griffin stated that he did not follow that and asked for an explanation.
39 David replied that in terms of himself, he was more willing to invest in improvements of the property because he
40 was the one going to live there . David Schwartz explained that while he can rent the other property to someone it
41 is most likely short term and there really is not a lot of incentive to upgrade the property a great deal . Mr.
42 Schwartz added that in his dealings with local realtors , he thinks there is enough of a demand for single family
43 residences that the buyer would most likely convert it, improve the property, and enhance the tax roles.
44 Larry Sharpsteen stated that his major concerns remains the same as last month . Larry stated that it would not be
45 appropriate for the Planning Board to make a positive determination because of the Land Use Ordinance. Larry
46 added that from a logical standpoint in recognition of the existing neighborhood and the fact that it is a pre-
47 existing condition , he still thinks they would have to consider a negative decision until it has been reviewed by •
48 the Zoning Board of Appeals. Viola Miller asked if they could do it the opposite way, and make a
49 recommendation that the Planning Board sees the reason for this , but that it is up to the ZBA to make the final
50 decision . Larry stated that he thinks they said about the same thing. Larry Sharpsteen stated that before it can go
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3 Town oLaasin Pfanneo Board Januar • f 0 1999
• I before the ZBA , the Planning Board would have to give it a negative determination. Lin Davide stated that ha
2 eoulh . see a real traffic problem there . .
Brad Griffin raided the opinion that they want to be straight up with Mr. Schwartz and give an answer both he
4 and the Zoning Board of Appeals could understand as well . Mr. Schwarz stated that the way he understands A.
'5 the Planning Board cm make no decision or a negative decision, but he vitill still have to go before the dBA and
6 the PBA is going to bs loolcihp for a written recommendation. David Schwartz stated that all he would like is for
7 the Planning Board to support the recommendation that the PEA will be able to give that zoning variance .
2 Larry Sharpsteen motioned that as the subdivision as presented does not meet the current Land Use Control
9 Ordinance regulations, the Planning .Board can not pass further on this subdivision regardless of the probable
I 0 positive aspect of the subdivision until determination is made by the Zoning Board of Appeals.
• 11 Brad Griffin paraphrased the intent of the motion stating that it was to either approve or deny Mr. Schwartz' s
12 request without any prejudice 'that may be taken lager. VOTE.: IN FAVOR OF DENIAL : Larry SJnarpsteen ,
13 Jack.ie' ]3aker, Brad' Griffin, Lin Davidson, Gregg Ttabif , IN FAVOR OF APPB.OVAA:' lane _ Vio! a Miller
14 abstained .
if Larry Sharpsleen stated that his motion was intended to suggest that they could neither approve nor deny because
16 the subdivision as presented does not fulfil the Land Use Control Ordinance , so before they could say no, yes, or
17 maybe , the Zoning Board of Appeals has to either grant or deny a variance, Brad Griffin stated that he has no
If doubt of that, nor did he in his paraphrase . Viola 1Vfi.11er said then she would not abstain, es she was not hearing
19 Brad and Larry the same way. Brad stated that he would take the vote again .
20 David Schwartz stated that he does not have a problem with the denial, He added that what he thinks the Zoning
21 Board of Appeals is going to do is ask for a recoaunendation with their denial _ Brad Griffin stated they would do
22 it one step at 'e time.
23 Larry Sharpsteen stated that Lin ' s comments on the congestion in the area are quite to the point, and he thinks
ipthat is one of the things they should probably dram attention to in their comments to the Zoning Board of
Appeals_ Larry stated that on a positive side, he would state that the opportunity to place a multiple dwelling
26 rental property into an individual property owner' s hands and the opportunity to snake it a single family dwelling
27 does have possible positive connotations and also help affect the parking. Brad Griffin asked if Mr. Schwartz
28 said the driveway was a termed easement. David Schwartz replied & at it is perpetual .
29 Brad Griffin stated that he thinks it would be efficient that the A.B .A . will have a copy of the Planning Board
30 hinnies , Viola Miller stated that they would hays to send their recommendation to theZ.B .A . as well . Viola
IThx..l Al ' stated that is the way she thought it reached . Brad Griffin asked if•she: would like to make a recommendation ,
32 Viola stated that she would make a recommendation that they think it is en improvement to the arca and if the
33 Q. B .A . can work out the problems that came about because of the parking and the septic systems, their
32 recommendation would be for the change . Larry Sharpsteen seconded the recommendation. VOTE : IN
35 FAVOR : Larry Shsegrnen and Viola Miller_ OPPOSED : Jackie Baker, Brad Griffin, Lin Davidson, th Gregg
36 'Travis _ MOTION DENTED .
37 George Totman told Mn Schwartz that if he is going to go to the . B . A. , George would need to have the maps
38 back. George stated that he would wait to hear from Mr. Schwartz_
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40 Privilege of the Floor
41 Bud Shattuck thanked the Planning Board for the experience of listening to the discussion on the chwartn
42 subdivision request_ Bud stated that it was a wonderful experience for him to listen to As explanations and to sec
23 some of the problems and possible solutions , Brad Griffin stated that they have a document that outlines the
44 Zoning Board of Appeals and suggested Bud have a copy to read to help him better understand that process.
140 Brad explained that the ZBA considers variances and it deals very heavily with charges le regard to the matter of
hardship . Brad stated that the courts have held very little with hardships that are self-created, Bud stated that he
47 does not have a copy of the information on the I.B .A . and stated that he is looking for as much information as he
148 could . I-Te would like to get a copy of that.
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• I ! 'own o Lar srry _Pfarrnhey Booed Anna 10 2999
] • Bud Shattuck stated that he was in Rochester with Katrina Greenly and Steve Farkas today. Bud addedthat they
2 spoke about his role as liaison to the Planning Board. Bud added that he was unsure of what his role was. Bud
3 Shattuck Sated that one of the things they were discussing was a down Center and they think the Planning Beard
4 should be the ones to design that, Bud stated that one of the things they would like to do is have a joint working
5 meeting of the Town Board and Planning Board, Brad Griffin stated that he would like to rise to the occasion
b that Bud presented in wondering about their respective roles and their relationship. Brad stated that some of that
2 could be fairly simple in terms of a useful liaison. Brad cited an example that after the Planning Board mid the
i ' Town Board had gone through the exercise of constructing an ordinance, a lot of changes occurred here and
9 there , and last summer the Town Board made some corrections and it was only in the Planning Board 's last
I b iaei.lins did they receive those corrections_ Brad stated them have been several members of the Planning Board
I ] tdsi: have suggested they stay in touch with other communities, especially the ones that em contiguous, but Brad
] 2 • feels their first responsibility is to maintain some contact with the Town Board and to truly know what is afoot .
] 3 Brad stated the Planning Board is a board which is created in law by appointments from the ' Town Board and
t 4 _ those appointments are made_ in a bipartisan way . Brad added that they act first for executive functions that are .
hi specifically delegated to them by the Town Board. In other functions, they act as an advisory board to the Town
16 Board . Brad stated that it would behoove this hoard to know what is afoot in Town Board business and vice
I r versa.
] 2 bind Griffin stated that he is not entirely sure that in law, or in practice , or in expertness, that he would see the
] 9 board as design board , nor is it a beautification committee. Brad stated that the law speaks rather closely about
dd :hose things they are specifically charged with . Viola fvliller stated that she did not quite understand Brad ' s very
21 hart comment, because it depends on what you call beautification, Viola added that ifyou call that pan of site
22 plan it would depend on whom was handing site plan. There are some of them on the board that would welcome
23 the fact that they could do a much better job if site plan was put back to the Planning Board, Larry Sharpsteen
24 stated that he would agree with Fiala about where the responsibility should lie for site plan review, but that he
25 would agree with Brad that they should not be responsible dor design such as telling people what their buildings
26 rhorid look like in a certain arca_ Brad stated that they had a previous discussion about this where it was said
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27 that their first responsibility is to set up a broad foundation of expressed goals and aspirations and a
25 comprehensive plan, and a broad, understandable, useable , well spelled set of ordinances that guide the publ le
29 and administrators, Viola Miller agreed _
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Bud Shaneed stated that maybe he misspoke, they were not looking for them to design buildings, but for an
31 overall plan of a Town Center. Bud stated that they would like to get some sort of commitment for a joint
21 =cling. Bud stated that his commitment is that should the Planning Board have a meeting, he will be there, and
33 he will represent the Planning Board to the Bewn. Board. Bud added that he will be tip-front about what he feels
34 and what the Town Board feels. Brad stated that with regard to a joint meeting, would he agree that the more
35 informal the better, Bud agreed , and added that because they will be meeting with a quorum , it will have to be an
id open meeting. but that does not mean that they have to let anyone participate, it can be just a working meeting.
37 I,.ally Sharpsteen stated that , speeding for himself, he thinks it would be refreshing to lye treated as anything but
38 mushrooms by the dean Board _ dairy stated that he thinks they need that two-way flow of communications as
39 they have Found themselves over the past torn years working at cross-purposes with the Town Board . Bud
40 Shatnick stated that his did not mean to infer anything about the Town Board members that were there in the past .
4 ] Larry Sharpsteen stated that Bud did not infer that. Lin Davidson agreed with getting together with the Point
42 13oarcl _ Possible dates that were discussed were January 20 , 25 , 27 and February I . Bud Shattuck stated that he
43 would discuss it with Sieve Farkas and get back to them .
44 Discussion on Proposed Charing to the Comprehensive Ilan
45 due board members reviewed and discussed the proposed changes to the Comprehensive Plan. Bud Shattuck
46 pointed out that on Page d, "i3oard" was misspelled. Brad Griffin stated that they would like to get a copy of the
42 Comprehensive Plan with the proposed changes for the Town Board , The document will have to be seenned in,
48 thea dye changes made, 111)
49 Discussion on the Changes to the hand Use Ordinance
Sd Vials duller asked if the changes that were made were ones the Ylanning Board had reew " ' ended . Brad stated
51 that these pages contalc the changes that ware adopted_ Viola Miller stated that the Planning Board was not
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5 Town of Lansing Planning Board, Jtinuury 10, 1999
l consulted, Brad stated that is correct. Itt Shulman stated that the changes were represented by the Town
2 Board er having been "housekeeping. " Viola Miller stated that the changes have been adopted after public
4111 hearing. Brad Griffin agreed- The Board discussed the changes. Brad stated that there are some other changes
that they should look into. Viola Miller stated that she thanks there were marry of the members that were
5 disturbed because they did not do anything for the rural areas, Viola stated that in her opinion , they were not
6 penalizing the rural area, but they were protecting them by putting some restrictions on them with site plan ,
7 Luny Sharpsteen stated that, as the anti-zoning member of the Planning Board, he strongly feels that the Rural
8 Agriculture done should have site plan review for any commercial or industrial use,
9 Viola huller presented the Chairman with e copy of the 1971 proposed zoning regulations that were never
IO passed , Viola explained that was before the Village event out.
it Brad Griffin stated there was a compilation of basic planning studies undertaken by previous planning boards
• 12 back in the 1960 ' s or early 1970 ' s . Brad stated there was some great information contained in it . Brad stated
Is hmt he also has a book on the essential skills of reading and interpreting maps and plans, Brad stated that maybe
Is the best way to distribute it is to circulate it to anyone who wants to read it, Larry Sharpsteen stated that now that
15 they have there own space in the new Town Fall , they will have a place , maybe a shelf to keep that stuff Brad
16 Griffin stated they will circulate the draft of the Village Comprehensive Plan. Matt Shulman suggested asking
17 Jodi Take, Village of Lansing Clerk , if she would give theme copy of the disk of the Comprehensive Platt that
l8 was adopted_ Bed Shattuck added that they have the right to charge up to S ,25 a page, even though it is
19 compressed and put on a disk.
20 Brad Griffin asked the board members, as homework, to look over the proposed changes to the Comprehensive
2 ! Plan to see if they have any corrections or additions.
22 Committee Reports
23Planning Federation- Viola Miller stated that the meeting is scheduled for Tuesday, January 11 , 2000 . Vied
0 added that there is a great deal of debate going on as to how the Federation meeting is going to go forward , what
their purpose is going to be, and what they are doing , Viola Miller stated that she was not at the last meeting, but
26 did read the minutes and some of the things horrified hen
27 EMC- Larry Sharpsteen stated the EMT meeting is Wednesday , Januar ; 12 , 2000 , so he will not have anything to
28 report until after that meeting_
29 Nominating Committee- Lane Sharpsteen redone9 that for the sake of stability and continuity, the Nominating
30 C: orrunittee request that the standing executive board members accept being nunumOeri for another year, with
• 3i Gregg Travis replacing David Lippert as Secretary _ Viola Miller added chat the executive board members have
32 done a remarkably good jab, The nominations are as follows ;
33 Chairman - Brad Griffin
34 Tier Chairman - Lin Davidson
35 Secretary - +Gregg Travis
36 Treasurer - Jackie .Baker
37
38 OTHER BUSINESS
39 Brad Griffin asked if anyone wanted to suggest any replacements for the Planning Board position open due to the
40 resignation of David Lippert, George Toturau read a fetter of interest For the position that was received from
4I Da rid Hatfield . Tarry Sharpsteen stated that they had spoken with Mr. Hatfield and told him to call Steve Farkas
42 to express his interest . harry slated that because of the statements made at the fast meeting, he kept his ear to the
43 ground looking for someone from the same general area , the di zone , es David Lippert. .harry Sharpsteen
explained that Mr. Hatfield has children in the school system , has lived in Lansing all his life, is active in the
community with the reline ! , and works at the power plant_ Larry added that he has known lnian for I or 6 years
46 and thinks he would fit in well with this organization and would muake a valuable addition to the board . Larry
47 Sharpstseu stated that when he spoke with Steve Farkas about this, Steve said he would very much like to have
47 Planning Board input on any replacement and asked that Mr. Hatfield rreite a vole to the Planning Board
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6 1 Mwvn of Laming Planning Beare January 19, 3999
] expressing his interest , Bud Shattuck stated Steve Parkas told thou the name of another person that was
2 interested, Nancy Stage. Jackie Baker stated they had also talked about Susan Brock_ Brad Griffin stated that the
3 larger the pool of candidates, the better it. is . •
4 Brad Griffin stated that over the past four years , they have had four exceptional members depart from this board .
5 Those members arc Cheryl Nichol, Robert Todd, Al White , and David Lippert . Brad stated that all of those
6 members were appointees of the Porno Board in the past and he thinks their record on this board of consideration
7 and fairness is a goad tradition to uphold. Viola Miller stated that the beauty of this hoard is that for all the years
she has been on it , it has been completely non-partisan_ Viola added that for years, they did not even know who
9 belonged to any party . Bud Shattuck stated that he thinks they will find the current Town Board much the same
10 way. Viola Miller stated that she thinks the Planning Board has a better relationship with their Town Board than
11 a lot of other towns she has heard about. Larry Sharpsteen and Lin Davidson agreed .
12 Update on Otlenschott Property- Gregg Travis asked George Totman if he had an update an Cortland Paving. •
13 George stated that a week ago Rich John, Steve parkas , and himself met with Mr. Ottensehott and his lawyer and
I toured the site George stated Mt Ottenschott has removed all the cars and trucks excepttreed but he still has a
15 hat ed junk laying around . George added that there are also some trucks that Mr. Ottenschatt calls "in-service
la tracks_ " George explained that there are going to go on another tour there on Thursdays of this noeek. George
17 stated that it is the position of the Town not to tell him everything he still needs to do . The Town has taken the
t a position dial when the time is op they will go before the judge and tell him whether 9th. Clttenschott has suet the
1e regulations of the Town .
20 Larry Sdarpsteen motioned to adjourn the meeting at 9 : 55 PM . Lin Davidson seconded . VOTE : ALL IN
21 FAVOR. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY .
22 Submitted by Robin Cornell _
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