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3 Monday, May 11 , 1998 ; 7 : 30 PM PLANNING BOARD
4 PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS
5 (*Denotes present)
6 * Viola Miller, Chair * Jacoba Baker
7 * Larry Sharpsteen Brad Griffin
8 * Lin Davidson Al White
9 * David Lippert
10
11 Larry Tvaroha, Town Councilman
12 * George Totman, Zoning and Code Enforcement Officer
13 PUBLIC PRESENT
144_ Matthew Shulman Lansing Community News
15 ;.- Aline Shulman Lansing Community N_ ews
16 ., Susan Miller 194 Buck Rd
•
17L.H. Pat Conlon 56 Conlon Rd
184
0 GENERAL BUSINESS
20 Viola Miller called the meeting to order at 7 : 30 PM.
21 George Totman stated he had a town map completed. At the regular May meeting, the Town Board
22 probably will officially accept it. George also informed the Planning Board that the Town Board has
23 officially changed the name of Cuddeback Road to Nut Ridge Road. The old Nut Ridge Road is now
24 Cedar View Drive.
25 Review of Minutes of April 13, 1998- Jackie Baker moved to accept the minutes as presented. David
26 Lippert seconded. VOTE : ALL IN FAVOR, MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
27 Review of Minutes of April 27, 1998- Page 1, Line 27. . .Jackie Baker stated corrected. . .Paul Butler
28 should be listed on Line 17 as a Town Councilman. . .Line 40. . .Larry Sharpsteen corrected. . .this may
29 create an opportunity. . .Page 3, Line 20. . .Viola Miller corrected. . .will not get devaluated. Larry
30 Sharpsteen said the word should probably be devalued. . .Line 24, Dave Lippert corrected. . .not want to be
31 systematically. . . .Line 25. . .Larry Sharpsteen corrected. . .the other uses so ambiguous he feels that he
32 must join the petition . . .Line 42. . .Larry Sharpsteen corrected. . .If it is going to be. . .Page 5, line 5. . .Viola
33 Miller stated she thought Herb Beckwith was trying to say he had considered it a detriment, but he could
34 see that there was some protection. The Board agreed to have the tape checked to clarify his statement.
35 Line 17. . .Viola stated she would like to have it stated that Larry Sharpsteen was the member that
36 abstained. The Board will wait to approve the minutes until the tape has been checked for clarification
37 of Herb Beckwith' s statement.
Viola Miller stated that the Board welcomes input p t from the residents. They consider the input and take
0
40 it seriously, especially when it comes as something constructive. Viola stated that during the many years
41 she has sat on the Board, they have never considered individual wants and wishes . Those things have
42 had to be considered on the basis of an area, on the basis of what is best for the Town, and what they
May 11
2 Town of Lansing Planning Board, Marc-h-9, 1998
1 find by working with everyone that comes to them, and working with professionals . They feel in their
hearts the Proposed Ordinance was the best thing to present to the Town for consideration. Viola stated
she did not think they have ever knowingly changed anything they have done because of one particular
4 person' s wishes unless they have presented it on behalf of an area and for the public good. In that
5 respect, Viola has not always been sure they have stayed as close to the Comprehensive Plan as perhaps
6 they should have, especially in the RA Zone. Viola read Section III, Part 2 (pages 13 & 14) of the
7 Comprehensive Plan. This section lists the Town' s Argiculture policy, goals and objectives. Viola
8 Miller stated that they have not provided any way to do these things . Viola stated she does not see how
9 it can be done without at least having site plan control over them. Viola stated she feels very strongly
10 when everyone on this Board hoped that we could control strip development. The Town Board has
11 . further encouraged strip development. In so doing, the Planning Board should ask the Town Board if
12 they will make some further considerations.
13 Larry Sharpsteen agreed with everything Viola said. For clarification, Larry noted that the Planning
14 Board ' s submittal to the Town Board had made allowances for Site Plan Review. Further they had
15 controls for strip development, but the amended proposal from the Town Board does not.
16 Jackie Baker stated they had probably spent over $20,000 on a consultant over these past few years .
17 Jackie stated they had a man they could all trust, and wondered how much of his judgment is being used
18 inthe changes the Town Board has made. Jackie stated that in the last couple months the Town Board
19 has put a lot of time into changes and going over the plans, but Jackie figured each member of the
20 Planning Board has put in over 300 hours of thinking and planning. Jackie cannot say the members of
21 the Town Board are that much smarter than the members of the Planning Board that the last few hours
22 they spent in the last few months should be that much better than the hours the Planning Board has spent
over the past five years. Jackie stated that 2/3 of the Town is listed as rural agriculture. Jackie stated
- that 5 members of the Planning Board live in the rural area. It seems they represent the part of the Town
25 that everyone has most feared will vote this down and be against the zoning. Jackie also agreed with
26 Viola about the Site Plan Review. She stated they have said this is a living document, it can be changed .
27 It is a living document, but as Viola has pointed out, that since 1972 how many changes have been
28 made? Jackie stated that she feels they should go with the best plan and not think people are going to
29 come in and make changes right away.
30 Jackie Baker stated that many businesses around Cayuga Lake have joined up to try to make Cayuga
31 Lake the jewel of the Finger Lakes . Jackie stated they have put about $ 68 ,000 into that, to push it in
32 magazines across the country. Jackie thinks the beauty of the farms and rural areas need to be protected
33 and without Site Plan she does not see how they can do that.
34 Lin Davidson seconded Jackie' s comments . Lin stated they can have compatible businesses and
35 industries. It is not what they have, but how they do it. They can do it at a minimal cost and have an
36 attractive Town for tourist. Lin noted that they do not have to put tourists ' kids through school, the
37 tourists' dollars are pure gravy for the Town. Lin stated that even if they get people to shop here it is
38 positive. Lin added that the residents can enjoy the beauty and even more so that their kids can enjoy it.
39 Viola Miller added that people will come to a commercial area that is attractive faster than they will
40 come to one that is not.
41 Dave Lippert commented on the Site Plan Review process. Dave stated they have tried to look at the
42 "good of the whole" instead of the "individual win of the moment." In the new proposed document, Site
43 Plan review is put in the Town Board' s hands. Dave stated that is the wrong place because every
• decisions becomes political . It is no longer for the good of the whole, it is how can I make sure that I am
45 not politically indicted for my decision? Dave stated that none of the Planning Board is free from that
46 indictment if they do the Site Plan Review. They serve at the wish of the Town Board, but when you put
47 it in the hands of an elected body, you are taking a document which is suppose to be for the common
Mety ,1l„
3 Town of Lansing Planning Board, macaw, 1998
1 good and making it a political football . Dave stated that he thinks that is extremely poor judgment. Lin
Davidson agreed. Larry Sharpsteen very strongly agreed. Larry Sharpsteen also confirmed what Jackie
Baker said, they did spend in excess of $20,000 on consulting including Scot Chatfield. Larry added
4 that they have spent many hours as a Board on training and research, as well as a good many hours of
5 conversation and comment from the public, picking up the information they used to create the document
6 they submitted to the Town Board. Larry Sharpsteen stated that he feels they are probably as qualified to
7 submit such a document as any group of seven disparate opinions could ever be. Larry stated that the
8 law says it is the Town Board' s responsibility to enact or not to enact and maybe what the Planning
9 Board has to say will not amount to much. Larry stated he has to stand on what he has said before or it
10 he would be less than fair to the people on the Board with whom he worked during his tenure as Chair.
11 He gives them his support and thinks they did a good job . He agrees with David Lippert that some of
12 these changes are at least ill-advised.
13 Viola Miller added that it is too bad to say that new people should not have a voice. She pointed out that
14 it should not be pointed out if they are new or old residents, if they have a reasonable project, they
15 should consider it. Viola stated that the Town Board is constantly asking for new development and it the
16 new people that make Lansing.
17 Lin Davidson stated that the changes that have been made since the last informational meeting have been
18 so substantial, there, has to be a request from the Planning Board to the Town Board to hold another
19 public informational meeting to publicize this information. Larry Sharpsteen stated he had heard there
20 were no plans for further informational meetings. Viola stated she has had no additional information
21 from the Town Board since the last meeting.
22 David Lippert stated the other comment that disturbs him is that they will put this proposed document
into effect, then anyone that wants to change it will come running. Dave stated that if it is going to be a
4 living document, it has to have a chance to grow some roots. You have to let it sit there and gets its ' feet
25 on the ground to see where it is and is not going to grow. Dave stated that you can not go hacking at it
26 right away or you will weaken it. Dave Lippert. used the metaphor that it is one thing to prune and
27 fertilize, but it is quite another to go throw Round-Up on it. He is afraid that is what is going to happen.
28 Viola Miller agreed whole-heartedly. Viola Miller stated she hoped the Town Board would see that they
29 were not doing this as a criticism, but as something they feel strongly about after working closely with it
30 over the years and listening to the public.
31 Dave Lippert stated he had not said these things at the previous meeting because he wanted to listen to
32 what the Town Board had to say. Dave stated he wanted to have some time to think about what they had
33 to say and why they did it. Viola Miller asked if he felt he heard any answers to why. Dave Lippert
34 responded he did not. Larry Sharpsteen stated he did not hear any answers. Larry Sharpsteen added that
35 Larry Tvaroha spoke for the Board, that there was no discourse or exchange of ideas with the other
36 members until they were asked. Viola Miller acknowledged that the Town Board did bring forth the
37 reason they increased the commercial district to the Village Line because there had been no residential
38 building along the road. Viola stated to her that is not a reason to have strip development. Dave Lippert
39 stated that to their recollection, Herb Beckwith went out of the meeting thinking maybe he neededto do
40 some rethinking about his input. Dave stated he was pleased with that part, but the rest was like twisting
41 arms. Jackie Baker stated they had to give the Town Board credit that they have had their hands full .
42 Viola Miller also stated they had to give them credit that they are really trying, but she has not heard
43 from them that they are giving any consideration to what the Planning Board was trying to put forth.
•
45 Privilege of the Floor- Susan Miller asked how the Town Board receives the comments that were just
46 made. Viola Miller stated that the Town Board receives the minutes of the Planning Board. Susan
47 Miller questioned whether there was any formal dialogue set up. Viola Miller stated they have had
M 11
4 Town of Lansing Planning Board, Martic5h 9� 1998
several while working on this, that is why this was such a surprise to those on the Planning Board. We
were working with them throughout. They thought there might be some changes, but were not prepared
for the extensive changes that were made. Larry Sharpsteen stated he did not say anything tonight that
4 he did not say at the joint meeting. He stated he would feel very comfortable saying it to the Town
5 Board. Larry Sharpsteen seconded Viola' s statement that they have had meetings with the Town Board
6 at different stages and went over it with them at some depth. Viola noted that they had sent copies to the
7 Town Board. constantly. Susan Miller stated the Planning Board had done that with their plan, but asked
8 if the Town Board had done that with their plan. Larry Sharpsteen stated the Planning Board saw it
9 when Susan saw it. Larry said no member of the Planning Board was called in or questioned, no input
10 was requested from any member of the Board during their process of deliberation. No one was asked to
11 clarify any points . Jackie Baker stated the Town Board did not have to do so . Larry Sharpsteen stated
12 he would have expected them to if they were making that depth of changes, but they are not required to .
13 Pat Conlon stated he wanted to clarify that it was about a year ago that they first sat down with the Town
14 Board with the first draft. Viola Miller stated yes, but they did have a liaison from the Town Board at
15 many meetings and they constantly asked if he had taken these things back to the Town Board. Pat
16 stated that they then held the informational meeting. Viola Miller stated that they held the informational
17 meeting first, then held the joint meeting. Pat Conlon stated that after the informational meeting, they
18 had the joint meeting, then the Planning Board sent the final draft to the Town Board in November or
19 December after they had tweaked it. Pat Conlon stated they had never really sat down with the Town
20 Board again until the meeting on April 27, 1998 . He asked if that was correct. The Board stated it was .
21 Dave Lippert added that if Pat were to look at the minutes of almost every meeting, there was a question
22 to Larry Tvaroha about where the Town Board was with the ordinance. Larry Sharpsteen stated Larry
23 Tvaroha stated the Town Board was reviewing it.
IPPat Conlon stated he agreed with Larry Sharpsteen that Larry had not said anything tonight that he did
25 not say at the joint meeting. Pat stated he did not think anyone had, except that Viola had eluded to the
26 Comprehensive Plan a little bit more. But Pat felt the Board had said it a lot better tonight than at the
27 last meeting. Pat Conlon read a letter from him to be published in Lansing Community News
28 responding to Jeannine Kirby' s letter to the Planning Board . Larry Sharpsteen thanked Pat for the vote
29 of confidence and said that he thinks he is speaking for the whole Board in saying they are glad someone
30 appreciates what they have done. Pat Conlon stated that they should take it, as a Board, to the public.
31 Pat Conlon stated he is convinced that the majority of the public feels the same way as the Planning
32 Board does. Pat agreed with Lin Davidson that this document is so far removed from the public
33 informational meeting. Pat Conlon also stated the Town Board may be within the legal limits of the law,
34 and he is not sure that they are, but they are misleading and not telling the story as it is .
35 Viola Miller would like to send a message to the Town Board that the Planning Board feels there should
36 be another public informational meeting before a public hearing after such extensive changes. Susan
37 Miller stated that as one voice, she feels there should be another informational meeting. Susan Miller
38 also stated she had attended the last Town Board meeting. She said they had set June 3 , 1998 , as a date
39 for a public hearing if they could firm up the language for cellular towers and adult entertainment. There
40 was a quietly made comment that they were not going to publish the information in the proposal in the
41 newspaper, but rather they would make it available if the people wanted it. Susan stated that the thrust
42 was not to advertise and stimulate any thought or dissension, that people that had enough interest would
43 go up to the Town Hall and get a copy. Susan stated that it seemed they were going to, once again, do as
44 minimal as possible about explaining or encouraging thought, or involving the Town, or inviting
understanding.
46 Viola Miller stated the reason she asked about the informational meeting is because there are certain
47 procedures a Planning Board follows in presenting an ordinance to the people of the Town. It is required
48 to have at least one informational meeting and if there are substantial changes, you would normally have
Nk&yl
5 Town of Lansing Planning Board, March 9; 1998
another informational meeting. Viola Miller stated she feels the people of this Town will think that this
Planning Board is the one that made the ordinance that they will have. Viola stated that if the Planning
Board had been the one to make these changes, they would feel very definitely that they would need to
4 go to another informational meeting. If the Planning Board ' s name is to be on the document as the
5 people who did it, she would like the Town to understand that these changes have been made.
6 Given the fact that the March 25 , 1998 , Proposed Zoning Ordinance as revised by the Town Board is
7 substantially different from the November 10, 1997, Proposed Zoning Ordinance, David Lippert moved
8 to recommend that the Town Board hold an additional informational meeting prior to any public hearing
9 to adopt the Town Zoning Ordinance. Lin Davidson seconded. VOTE : ALL IN FAVOR. MOTION
10 CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
11 NEW BUSINESS
12 Report from Committee Chairs & Officers -
13 Transportation Council- Lin Davidson stated he did not attend the Transportation meeting. Viola Miller
14 stated that Brad Griffin has been going to the meetings and they will have a report later on that.
15 Sewer Committee- Larry Sharpsteen stated that the Sewer meeting was scheduled for May 6, but he was
16 late and the Co-Chair could not be there, so the Town Engineer and everyone else that showed up for the
17 meeting went home when theChair did not show. That meeting will be rescheduled. Larry stated that
18 he is working on the June meeting to have Dave Herrick do his presentation which will last
19 approximately 30 minutes.
20 EMC- Larry Sharpsteen stated that the meeting is scheduled for Wednesday and he will be attending
that meeting. Larry noted that the mitigation has gone forward on Colonial Cleaners regarding the
trenching and sub-slab ventilation that they detailed at the public information meeting held at the high
23 school last fall. Larry stated he would expect they will get something from the E.M. C. saying everything
24 is complete. It appears, from what Larry has seen, that the mitigation has been proceeding exactly as it
25 was laid out at the public information meeting. If they are correct and continue the long-term
26 monitoring, that situation should be in hand.
27 Planning Federation- Viola Miller reported she was disappointed in the seminar that was put on by the
28 Federation. Viola stated she thought it was going to be a training meeting, but she did not see much
29 training, just information. Viola stated she was looking for more "how-to" information than what they
30 had. George Totman stated that he too was very disappointed in that meeting.
31 Tree Committee- Viola Miller wanted everyone to understand this would be totally voluntary. Viola
32 asked if someone on the Board will ask people to work with the Board and give them ideas. Lin
33 Davidson stated he would be happy to do so, but stated that the Town has to take an interest in it. Lin
34 stated he thinks there are people that would take an interest in it, but he thinks the Town Board has to see
35 it as something they want to do and participate in.
36 Discussion on Planning for Future Roads- Viola Miller stated they need to consider seriously the
37 paper roads and future roads as development comes down the road. She thinks it would be of help to the
38 people who come in for subdivisions and people who are asking about things to know where the
39 Planning Board thinks road should be. Viola stated in the Sub-Division Regulations and in the
40 Comprehensive Plan, it states that they will try to keep as many entrances off the main roads as possible .
41 They need to show where roads could go, so that development can occur in those areas . George Totman
4) explained the new map as more complete than the last map he gave to the Planning Board. George
43 stated this map was done by the County. Larry Sharpsteen stated they previously had a section of the
44 map from South Lansing to the Village Line on which they were going to work. Larry Sharpsteen stated
45 that to do overlays, a piece of acetate and grease pencils would be helpful. George Totman will ask
itiKyl
6 Town of Lansing Planning Board, ,
1998
Sharon to order the acetate and red, blue, black, and green grease pencils for the June 8 , 1998 , meeting.
Lin Davidson will call the Sharon Heller at Tompkins County G. I . S . Mapping to get the section of the
map enlarged.
4 Discussion on One Lot Subdivisions- Viola Miller stated because they were committed to so much
5 time devoted to zoning, they gave the one lot subdivisions to George Totman, which he has been
6 graciously doing. The members feel they have no idea what is going on in the town. Now that they are
7 no longer committed to so much time, the members feel the Planning Board should be doing one lot
8 subdivision. This would help the Planning Board to have a better handle on knowing what is going on in
9 the Town. Jackie Baker stated maybe it was time they took a tour of the Town again. Lin Davidson
10 suggested putting it on hold until Brad Griffin and Al White are present.
I 1 Dave Lippert stated that until things heated up in the last couple months, George Totman had been
12 giving the Planning Board a monthly report of building activities in the Town. George apologized
13 stating he forgot to bring the report. Dave stated he was not being critical, that it is a much their problem
14 as it is anyone else ' s .
15
16 Larry Sharpsteen motioned to adjourn at 9 : 00 PM. Lin Davidson seconded. VOTE : ALL IN FAVOR.
17 MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
18 Submitted by Robin Cornell .
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