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• 11/10/97a
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7 °30 PM
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Agenda t o plc sa
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7:30 PM'` , C1 Meeting °To Order Approve October`;Minutesi'” '
7'.145 PM Ron Seacord Project Update ,I
, .
8 OO�PM : Resume, Work On Proposed Zone Ordinance ,, ;'
9: 00 P.M Anythi giElse' One Deems Important; To Bring Before The ,Board , , i ,, fi , , ; r
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1
2 Town of ansin
3 Monday , November 10 , 1997 ; 7 :30pm PLANNING BOARD
4 PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS
5 (*Denotes present)
6 * Larry Sharpsteen, Chair * Jacoba Baker
7 * Viola Miller. * Brad Griffin
8 * Lin Davidson Al White
9 Robert Todd * David Lippert
10
11 * Larry Tvaroha, Town Councilman
12 * George Totman, Zoning and Code Enforcement Officer
13 PUBLIC PRESENT
14 John Marabeila 10 Sunset Drive
15 Mark Wheeler 6 Sunset Drive
16 Roger VandePoel 2 Sunset Drive
17 Ralph Roger Barnard 741 Lansing Station Road
18 Susan Miller 194 Buck Road
19 Pete DeLotme 186 Buck Road
Pat Conlon 56 Conlon Road
Aline Shulman Lansing Community News
22 Tom Neiderkorn Public Consultant
23
24 GENERAL BUSINESS
25 Lin Davidson called the meeting to order at 7 : 33pm.
26 Review minutes of 10/27/97- Page 2, Line 22. . . Brad Griffin co,rrected. . .total acreage disrupted at any
28 added. . .Page 3 of the SEQR Review. . . Brad Griffin motioned t rd. . .Page 1, Line 19. . . Viola Miller
27 one time. . . Page 1, Line 30. . . Viola Miller corrected. . .Ron Seaco
o accept the October 27, 1997 minutes
29 as corrected. Dave Lippert seconded. VOTE : FOUR AFFIRMATIVE VOTES , ONE ABSTENTION .
30 MOTION CARRIED.
31 Larry Sharpsteen entered at 7 : 37pm.
32 Review minutes of 10/13/97- Page 1, Line 30. . . Brad Griffin corrected. . ."that the attorney" should be
33 deleted. Page 2, Lines 37 & 38. . .Brad also corrected "guide lines" should be one word "guidelines . "
34 Page 2, Line 37. . . Dave Lippert corrected. . . legally has the guidelines to work on. Line 12. . . Dave Lippert
35 asked to which pizza place they were referring? Larry Sharpsteen stated . . . Lake Breeze Pizzeria .
36 Page 3, Line 34. . . Brad Griffin corrected . . .The Board agreed to discuss . . . Page 4, Line 35. . . Brad
37 corrected . . . shall not be onerous to . . . Page 5, Line 12 . . . Brad Griffin corrected . . . Robert Todd informed
38 the Board. . .Line 17. . . the Board is supposed to . . . Lin Davidson motioned to accept the minutes as
amended. Viola Miller seconded. VOTE : FOUR AFFIRMATIVE VOTES , ONE ABSTENTION .
MOTION CARRIED .
41 Viola Miller asked if anyone had gone to the Town Board regarding Al White. Larry Sharpsteen stated
42 that he did not as he was going to contact Al first. George Totman stated he brought it up to the Town
43 Board and they requested the attendance record which George gave to them. Larry Tvaroha stated they
2 Town of Lansing Planning Board, November 10, 1997
I had the information, but have not acted on it. Larry Sharpsteen stated that as long as Al has been on the
2 Board, they owe it to him to ask what his intentions are. Larry Tvaroha stated the only action the Town
3 Board was .going to take was to inquire what his intentions are. •
4
5 Larry Sharpsteen stated he passed on the SEQR for Ron Seacord, to the Town Engineer. There was a
6 correction, it was a positive mark to the question regarding the addition of a new water district. The way
7 it is done in this town, an extension to a water district is a new district. It has to be submitted to 2 county
8 and 2 state agencies . Brad Griffin stated he followed up on the archeology issue. Larry stated he also
9 forwarded that to the Dave Herrick. Larry stated what they have to do is submit it to the 2 state and
10 county agencies requesting Lead Agency status, they have 20 days to respond and the Planning Board
11 has 30 days to take final action. Jacoba Baker asked what makes an organization a Lead Agency? Larry
12 Sharpsteen stated the organization claims Lead Agency then asks the other agencies that could claim it if
13 they object to it.
14
15 Viola Miller asked that they review appointing the nominating committee so they do not run into the
16 problem they did last year. Larry Sharpsteen stated it has to be the first meeting in December. Viola
17 stated that it used to be in November, then they would report in December, and the election would be in
18 January. Larry Sharpsteen asked if anyone would volunteer to be on the committee. Brad Griffin and
19 Viola Miller volunteered.
20 Larry Sharpsteen stated, for the record, he has been approached by the architect for Ron Seacord to do
21 the road inspection. Therefore, if that happens, he will recuse himself from any action having to do with
22 that subdivision and pass the chair of the meeting to the co-chair, or his replacement, for the duration of
23 said discussion. According to the County Ethics Code, he may not have to do that, but he does not want • _
24 any appearance of impropriety.
25 Discussion on letter from Roger VandePoel
26 Roger VandePoel assembled a plan of traffic control for Woodsedge Drive and the proposed Cayuga
27 Vista Drive area. Larry Sharpsteen stated the plan looks remarkably like some of the discussions they
28 have had and some of the things Mr. Seacord said he would consider doing. A copy of the letter has
29 been sent to Pete Larson, make sure a copy goes to the Town Board because they are the ones that make
30 the final decisions . Larry Tvaroha stated the Town Board does have a copy. Larry Sharpsteen stated that
31 with some modifications, he does not think it is unreasonable. Jacoba Baker stated it was nice that they
32 approached it that way. Larry Sharpsteen agreed that it was done exactly as the Board requested at the
33 hearing.
34 Old Business
35 Brad Griffin stated while he was absent, the hearing for Kip Buck took place . Brad thought when the
36 subdivision first came up, Larry Sharpsteen brought up the fact that it was a tricky place for. driveways.
37 Brad thought Kip just wanted 3 lots and that he was going to put them somewhere else. After Larry' s
38 objection to the site, Brad drove down and could see the reason for Larry' s objection. Brad was
39 surprised to see the approved map. George Totman stated the Board asked him to move the driveways
40 and he moved them the way they asked him to .
41 Viola Miller stated they are told it is wise to have site inspections of subdivisions, and Viola agrees they
42 should do that, especially if there is any kind of a question. Larry Sharpsteen suggested they do it on
43 subdivisions on more than one lot. Larry stated he will make himself available to do that, perhaps 2 or 3 •
44 of the Board members go at a time.
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3 Town of Lansing Planning Board, November 10, 1997
1Lin Davidson asked what their other options are, because they can not go ahead and say create a reverse
• frontage. Larry Sharpsteen stated they could if the Town felt a little more kindly towards private roads,
but the problem is people are not going to create a 3 lot subdivision on a spec ' d paved road. Larry
4 suggested when they review and rewrite the subdivision regulations , maybe they should consider and
5 talk to the Town Board about the use of limited size private roads to reduce the road cuts for these
6 subdivisions and get reverse frontages . Jacoba asked if therewas a way the committee could get better
7 acquainted with what makes a good subdivision. Larry Sharpsteen stated as seminars come around, they
8 do get opportunities, and when they become available they take them, and of course they have their
9 consultants they can go to . Larry added that the Board can give suggestions to the people, but as long as
10 the subdivision meets regulations, they do not have to take the advice. That is why Larry suggested
11 taking another look at the subdivision regulations . Viola Miller asked if there is any way they can refuse
12 a subdivision on the basis of safety? Tom Neiderkorn replied ; that he did not think so . Tom added that if
13 a subdivision posed a really dangerous situation, you possibly , could deny it, but you would take your
14 chances with a court case .
15 Pat Conlon asked where Site Plan Review comes into a situation like this in the proposed-ordinance.
16 Larry Sharpsteen stated it does not, it is separate from subdivisions. Larry added that in a subdivision,
17 strictly speaking, they are not supposed to consider the use of the land.
18
19 Resume Work on the Proposed Zoning Ordinance
20 Adult Entertainment-
21 Larry Sharpsteen stated he hoped everyone brought their list of suggestions for limitations on adult
Wentertainment. Lin Davidson asked Larry if he had seen the moratorium in the paper. Larry replied he
.. had seen it. Tom Neiderkorn gave a copy of the complete revision of Sec. 8 to the Board. Sec. 803 . 2 . 10
24 states that the only place adult entertainment would be permitted would be in the RA District. Larry
25 Tvaroha asked why they were allowing it in RA, not IR? Larry Sharpsteen stated they wanted to permit
26 it someplace where it would not be economically feasible . If it were in the IR, it would be close to
27 population concentration. Larry Sharpsteen added that it was the sense of the Planning Board that the
28 Town Board wanted a place to put one, but a place where nobody would want to put it. Jacoba Baker
29 stated at the seminar they just attended, it was suggested to use a small overlay. Tom Neiderkorn stated
30 you can make minimum lot size and frontage. Ralph Barnard suggested making it so it would have to be
31 set back off the road, with a legal private road so that when it goes belly-up the road can be used for
32 something else .
33 Tom Neiderkorn asked if the restrictions would be a minimum lot size of 10 acres , minimum frontage of
34 500 feet, set back of 200 feet, 1000 feet from any residence, and 2000 feet from any institution.
35 George Totman reminded the Board that the Town put a moratorium on it, so there would be time to go
36 over this. George asked if it would help to get some other town' s ordinances to see how they have they
37 have dealt with it, and continue going over the rest of the proposed ordinance. Dave Lippert agreed he
38 would like some time to think about it.
39 Review of Definitions
40 Brad Griffin stated in the definition of Communication Tower, there are two forks, either commercial or
41 ham radio . Brad added he thinks there are a number of other opportunities, such as industrial , law
enforcement, fire & emergency services or broadcasters who would say their transmissions would not be
commercial . Dave Lippert suggested adding "commercial or public service. " Tom Neiderkorn said he
44 would add it.
V.
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4 Town of Lansing Planning Board, November 10, 1997
Viola Miller questioned the $ 10,000 in the definition of a farm . There are several farms that do not farm
2 year round and do not make $ 10,000 a year, yet are considered by the IRS as a farm. Tom Neiderkorn
3 stated it is included in the Ag. Districts Law. Viola stated that is true if you want to be included in the •
4 Ag. District. Tom Neiderkorn stated that the problem will arise when someone in a residential district
5 claims to be a farm, when they are not a farm . Brad Griffin stated he thinks Robert Todd raised the idea
6 of including the $ 10,000 because it is consistent with state law, also with equalization and assessment
7 where agricultural exemptions are triggered. Dave Lippert stated they should revisit this definition when
8 Robert Todd is present. Larry Sharpsteen stated they are second guessing themselves. Larry asked Lin
9 Davidson to ask Robert what was his reason for adding the $ 10,000 . Lin Davidson stated he would, but
10 suggested they write a note to Robert as he is not around a lot these days .
11 Schedule I, Sec . 503 - Residential Use_#9 , ECHO Housing, it has "P " all across the page, and it should
12 be "SC" for all . Use # 11 , Dwelling-Mobile Home in R1 & R2 ,1 they are permitted under SC 802 . 2B ,
13 which states they are permitted in a mobile home park. Mobile Home parks are not permitted so Tom
14 questioned if they should change to "N. " The Board agreed. II '
15 Business Use #5 , 4H and Educational Husbandry, Tom Neiderkorn stated he has not found :anyone to
16 help him find what that really means: Larry Sharpsteen suggested Tom get in touch with John Sterling.
17 Tom agreed he would . Tom said the people at Cornell Cooperative Extension could not give him any
18 advice on how to control it. Pete DeLorme said it should state that it has to be under 4H or educational
19 supervision. Tom stated he will do some more research.
20 Business Use # 18 , Outdoor commercial recreation whether or riot forrofit Tom om Neiderkorn strongly
21 recommends it not be permitted in R3 , because of consistency. R3 was created to be the same as Rl
22 except for mobile homes and home retail business . Susan Miller stated it was allowed in R1 , R2iand
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23 R3 , but was taken out of R1 and R2; leaving it in R3 . The Board agreed to change to not permitted.
24 Use # 10-Communication towers- it was decided they would not be allowed in B2 district, they would be •
25 allowed in RA & IR. Sec . 802 .23 , conditions that have to be present for a tower to be erected. Larry
26 Sharpsteen suggested adding "electrical or electromagnetic" to condition "d. " Larry Tvaroha asked Tom
27 if he had ever seen where it was agreed the tower was to be removed when no longer in use? Toni stated
28 he had not seen it, but it would not be a bad idea.
29
30 Larry Sharpsteen listed the things they need to do to complete the revised ordinance. They are toet
31 Robert Todd ' s read on the reason for the $ 10,000 included in the definition of a farm, go over the things
32 discussed tonight and make any corrections, and get the information from John Sterling. Tom
33 Neiderkorn added that Brad Griffin has agreed to help proofread this .
34 Larry Sharpsteen stated that when
az'P the time
comes to
prepare this thing for a public hearing, they need to
35 think about how they are going to get this thing out there . Larry°i was talking to Matthew Shulman, and it
36 occurred to Matthew that by adding 4-6 pages to what they did the last time, it would allow the
37 ordinance to be printed in that same format.
38 George Totman asked if the Planning Board was going to hold a public hearing before giving it to the
39 Town Board. Larry Sharpsteen stated they were not. Tom Neiderkorn stated they have to if it is the first
40 ordinance, but because this is an amendment, it is not required. Viola Miller asked if the Planning Board
41 held a public hearing, would the Town Board still have to hold one? Tom Neiderkorn stated the Town
42 Board would still have to hold a public hearing. Viola Miller stated that after the public hearing, if
43 substantial changes are made, they have to hold another public hearing.
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44
5 Town of Lansing Planning Board, November 10, 1997
Ralph Barnard proposed changing the minimum lot size in R3 to 30,000 square feet and 125 foot road
6 frontage . Larry Sharpsteen stated he did not have a problem with changing it, but then eliminate the
word "density" from the ordinance as it will no longer be zoned according to density, it would be zoned
4 according to use. Brad Griffin asked if it is possible that those lands in which Ralph has an interest,
5 might be appropriately assigned to R2 ? Ralph stated that would be fine, but he thought that was
6 impossible. Pat Conlon stated he presented a petition from residents in his neighborhood to change the
7 whole area back to R1 and now a member of the Board is talking about changing one person's land to
8 R2. Larry Sharpsteen stated that is what Brad had in mind, he thinks the question was rhetorical, and it
9 was not intended to step on anyone ' s appendages.
10
I 1 Jacoba Baker asked if they could take a few minutes so Aline Shulmancould say something about the
12 Lansing Community News . Aline announced that the Ithaca Times is planning to start a newspaper in
13 Lansing, Groton and Dryden. In Lansing it will be called the Lansing Ledger. The Times has people
14 trying to get advertisements and news. The word is that in six months the Lansing Community News
15 will be out of business . They are going to fight it, so what they plan to do is print an open letter in which
16 they are asking people to send letters as to why they read the Lansing Community News and what they
17 find interesting. With these letters, we can use to show the people who are considering changing their
18 advertising. Brad Griffin stated, as one of the advertisers, he feels they will find a lot of advertising
19 loyalty. Aline agreed that the people whom already know them may choose to stand by them, but to
20 people whom do not know them, they need to prove that numbers only do not represent what people can
21 do. Larry Sharpsteen encouraged everyone to write letters.
22
• Dave Lippert moved to adjourn at 9 : 47pm . Brad Griffin seconded. VOTE : ALL IN FAVOR, MOTION
24 CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
25 The next meeting is scheduled for Monday, November 24, 1997 .
26 Submitted by Robin Cornell.
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