HomeMy WebLinkAbout1997-08-25 17
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3 Monday , August 25 , 1997 ; 7 : 30pm PLANNING BOARD
4 PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS
5 ('Denotes present)
6 * Larry Sharpsteen, Chair * Jacoba Baker
7 * Viola Miller * Brad Griffin
8 * Lin Davidson Al White
9 * Robert Todd * David Lippert
10
11 Larry Tvaroha, Town Councilman
12 * George Tolman, Zoning and Code Enforcement Officer
13 PUBLIC PRESENT
14 Glenn Fenner 302 Conlon Rd
15 Mark McKane 170 Buck Rd
16 Debbie McKane 170 Buck Rd
17 Tom Neiderkorn Planner Consultant
18 Susan Miller 194 Buck Rd
19 Kim Davis 113 Emmons Rd
20 Matthew Shulman 204 Wilson, Lansing Community News
21 Tom Kheel 161 Ludlowville Rd
2'' Pat Conlon 56 Conlon Rd.
Ralph Barnard 741 Lansing Station Rd
24 Laurie Fenner 302 Conlon Rd
25 Bill Miller 154 Wilson Rd
26 Ray Sill 132 Conlon Rd
27 Ron Seacord 1437 East Shore Dr
28 GENERAL BUSINESS
29 Larry Sharpsteen opened the meeting at 7 : 30pm. Larry read the public notice printed in the Ithaca Journal for Tax Map ##
30 25 .- 1 -5 . 1 for Norma Kalk. Larry Sharpsteen opened then public hearing, then asked if there were any public comments on the
31 proposed subdivision. There were no comments, therefore Robert Todd motioned to suspend the public hearing until 7 :45pm.
32 Lin Davidson seconded. VOTE: ALL. IN FAVOR. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY .
33 George Totman stated he informed Ron Seacord he would have the 7 :45pm time slot. As Ron was not yet present, the Board
34 announced they would take public comments on the Proposed Zoning Ordinance, limited to 5 minutes per person. Debbie
35 McKane, Buck Road, stated that she would like her property to remain agricultural. If that is not possible, she stated she feels
36 it better fits the R3 than R1 . Debbie was concerned with the kennel she has run for the past year and wanted to make sure she
37 would be able to continue. Sharpsteen stated R3 does allow kennels and livestock, but there are certain restrictions, which
38 can be found in Section 803 .2.2 ordinance. It was stated that the limitations for such are the same in R1 , R2, and R3 .
39 Pat Conlon questioned if the Board had made any changes or readings on the livestock issue. Viola Miller stated they had
40 discussed the issue, but had not made any decisions. Robert Todd stated he thought they had referred it to the Town Board.
41 Tom Neiderkorn stated the Planning Board had recommended to the Town Board to include Section 1303 in the current
42 ordinance be applied to the RI , R2, and R3 . Tom read Section 1303 . Viola Miller questioned if there were space
43 requirements for horses and ponies . Robert Todd stated there are requirements. Pat Conlon asked about other animals such
44as pigs, sheep, llamas, camels, etc. Larry Sharpsteen stated they still have to discuss where to draw the line. Matt Shulman
0 stated that common law states you would do what a reasonable person would do. It seems a reasonable person wotild "do no
harm and not create a situation that would offend one's neighbor." Matt stated he does not think you can put a numerical
47 impact, but maybe you could articulate what would be acceptable neighborly behavior.
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2 Town of Lansing Planning Board, August 25 , 1997
1 Robert Todd motioned to permanently close the public hearing on the Kalk subdivision at 7 : 52pm. Brad Griffin seconded.
2 VOTE: ALL IN FAVOR. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY .
3 Industrial Subdivision-Ron Seacord, Tax Map #37. 1 -2-53.22 •
4 Ron Seacord wanted to give an update on the progress on the subdivision. The survey has been completed for the road . Ron
5 Seacord stated the USGS contours are 20 ft. not 10 ft. Larry Sharpsteen stated the Board is going to need to see something
6 closer than 20 ft for the drainage on the preliminary plat. Larry stated unless the Board votes on it, it is required to have 2 ft.
7 contours. In the last meeting they voted to accept 10 ft. contours instead of 2 ft. Ron stated most of the contours will not be
8 able to be done until the crops are off. Larry Sharpsteen stated they will show up on the final plat which will also be
9 considered by the Town Engineer for drainage so they should be all right. Ron stated the topographical part near the road has
10 been done with 2 ft. contours in place.
11 Ron Seacord stated the Environmental Assessment is in progress. Ron stated that probably by the next meeting things should
12 be ready except the topographical parts for the preliminary plat. He also stated they have done some digging and testing for
13 the road and for the water lines . He stated there is rock down there quite aways so it should not be a problem .
14 Larry Sharpsteen stated before they declare it a Type II action, if they choose to declare Lead Agency, the Board has to turn it
15 over the long form draft E.I . S . to the County Health Dept. and County Planning Board.
16 Ron Seacord stated that before he can close with the testing lab, he has to get documentation of approval of the preliminary
17 plat. George Totman stated he can do it, and they will have to have Larry Sharpsteen sign the map .
18 Public Comments on the Proposed Zoning Ordinance( resumed)
19 Pat Conlon gave a petition to the Board requesting to change the R3 area back to R1 as originally planned. Larry Sharpsteen
20 question what the objection is to the changes in R3 verses the RI . Pat Conlon asked about home retail businesses . He
21 questioned whether a business would be considered home retail if the building was quite far removed from the residence .
22 Larry stated he thought it would still be considered home retail . Viola questioned why the Planning Board changed it from
23 RI to R3 . Larry Sharpsteen stated the Town Board asked them to allow that area to have retail sales and single sited mobile
24 homes . Pat Conlon stated he has no trouble with existing neighbors . He stated that 80% of the time, economics will keep the
25 single sited mobile homes out, but they are fearful of the 20% of the time where there have been problems . Viola Miller
26 stated they need to discuss and consider this seriously. Robert Todd stated his appreciation to Mr. Conlon for :aking it to the
27 Town Board because they will have the final decision . Viola Miller noted that it is the responsibility of the Planning Board to •
28 submit what they, as a Board, think is right.
29 Bill Miller asked what the Board had decided on the issue of livestock in Rl . Larry Sharpsteen reiterated the Board still has
30 to discuss and make a decision on that. Viola Miller noted that the Board is still trying to follow the comprehensive plan of
31 the Town . Bill q
were to buy
that more
is adjoining 1could
ordinance .expand and
raise
32 property asll? Larry Sharpsteen stated expansion protected in2 places he the Tom Neiderkorntated you
33 can expand the footprint and the activity .
34 Mark McKane stated he would like to get back to the issue of changing the zone back from R3 to RI . Mark is concerned with
35 the issue of home retail sales . Mark stated he currently has a garage, but if he decided to sell used cars, it would not be
36 permitted in RI . Larry Sharpsteen stated, if he is not mistaken, that is correct because he would be changing tl e use . Tom
37 Neiderkorn said the wording is right now "new and used car sales, service, and repair." Tom stated it is not broken down any
38 farther than that.
39 Matt Shulman inquired if a person is a painter and then decides to start doing siding out of his home as well, is that considered
40 a retail business. Larry Sharpsteen and Tom Neiderkorn discussed the issue. Tom stated there could be thousands of
41 variations, and he thinks that is when George Totman must decide if it fits or if it does not. Larry Sharpsteen suggested they
42 may want to change the definition for retail sales for the stated purpose of traffic.
43 Mark McKane would again like to discuss the petition to change the zone back to RI , specifically regarding mobile homes
44 being permitted. Most of the large land owners in this area are not on that petition. Mark feels it is because those people with
45 large lots may want to donate land to their children, who may not be able to afford to build a house . Mobile homes may be
46 their only option. Pat Conlon stated that a large number of the people on the petition would probably accept an ordinance to
47 accommodate the type of thing Mark is talking about on a limited basis . Tom Neiderkorn stated that could not be done
48 legally . Mark stated he would like his area to be agricultural, but if it can not, he wants it to remain R3 so they can still have
49 that option.
50 Viola Miller stated it was wise to have heard these comments and we will discuss them at a later time . Robert Todd agreed . •
51 Robert also added it is a traditional zoning concern, where you have several residential owners and a few larger land owners.
52 The question is do the politicians' side with the land owners or with the majority of the voters? Larry Sharpsteen asks
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3 Town of Lansing Planning Board , August 25, 1997
1 everyone to consider that comprehensive plan charges the municipality as a whole to maintain quality of life. Larry submitted
2 that the quality of life stagnates if you try to make your population too homogenous .
3 Pat Conlon commented that with all the businesses going in one area, you are going to end up with a strip. A resident stated it
4,seems to him, as you force businesses out of the other areas of town, you force them into that one little area. You are making
5 that happen when you force them out of the outlying areas. If you do not have an ordinance, the businesses can go anywhere,
6 but when you start legislating things out of an area or into another area. Robert Todd stated that is what most people want the
7 zoning to do. Larry Sharpsteen stated most people want to know what is allowed on the land around them.
8 Bill Miller asked for clarification. He has horses and if he wanted to put in a riding ring, at a later date, for use by family and
9 friends, if thezone is changed back to RI , would he be allowed to do that? Larry Sharpsteen stated there would be a special
10 permit required. Lin Davidson read special permit regulations for stables, Section 803 .21 .
II Matt Shulman questioned whether a PDA is allowed in R1 or R3 . Larry Sharpsteen stated it is allowed in any zone except IR.
12 A PDA can be anything the Town Board approves. Matt asked what the estimated PDA time table would be. Larry
13 Sharpsteen responded anywhere from 6 months to 2 years.
14 Susan Miller wanted to discuss the livestock issue. She suggested setting a reasonable amount of land per animal to surround
15 and protect the neighbors instead of having it totally excluded. That may be a good idea to satisfy both arguments. Susan
16 also questioned if comments given at a public meeting carry any weight. Larry Sharpsteen stated when the comments show
17 that something goes against an ordinance or law, they can carry weight. If the comments are just preferences, the Board can
18 note them, but they have no weight.
19 Bill Miller asked if he already has horses and goats when the ordinance is passed, then later wants to bring in a cow, would
20 that be allowed? Larry Sharpsteen stated yes, because it is livestock. Bill said it is just classified as livestock, not by species?
21 Larry stated that is correct.
22 Mark McKane questioned whether someone could grow corn, bag it and sell it to the general public for their corn stoves.
23 Robert Todd thought that brings up another point about which the Board asked Tom Neiderkorn. If it is in an ag. district,
24 does the state ' s ag. district's law supersedes the zoning laws . Tom clarified that the zoning ordinance can not do anything that
25 would interfere with a normal agricultural practice if it is in an ag. district. Ray Sill questioned if there was anything that
26 could regulate the times he is allowed to do farm activities that generate a lot of noise. Larry Sharpsteen stated that if it is an
2241 agricultural use in an agricultural district, it is protected. George Totman stated the Town Board passed a Right to Farm Law,
Local Law #2, and because of that, he is putting on all new building permits that you may be in an ag. district and there will
29 be noises and stuff you may have to put up within an ag. district.
30 Viola Miller stated because there has been so much discussion about putting mobile homes on the property, she just wanted to
31 verify with George Totman that the Town has an ordinance that says if any one particular owner decides to put more than 2
32 mobile homes on their property, it becomes a mobile home park and has to get a license. George agreed. Pat Conlon stated a
33 mobile home park is allowed in all 3 zones. Larry Sharpsteen stated that is correct.
34 Ray Sill stated that up on his upper farm he has 15 animals. He questioned whether he could move livestock to land that was
35 not in agricultural use. Larry Sharpsteen stated that if the land was grandfathered and has been in some form of agricultural
36 use within the past 12 months, it is allowed. If it has not been in agricultural use within the past 12 months, it would not be
37 allowed unless it was in an ag. district. Tom Neiderkorn stated, in the proposed ordinance, livestock is allowed in both the RI
38 and R3 districts. Robert Todd stated that at this point it is all permitted, but at the town informational meeting some people in
39 the residential zones were concerned with livestock in the residential areas . The Board discussed it and looked at the existing
40 ordinance for the zoned areas which stated that poultry and livestock were permitted, but they had to have a permit from the
41 Health Dept. to get rid of the manure. So the Planning Board was going to have the Town Board take a look at it.
42 Ray stated a concern with Mr. Conlon ' s petition is that if his upper farm is zoned RI , when he gets older and can no longer do
43 the work himself, he will not be allowed to put in a mobile home for his hired person.
44 Matt Shulman stated, as a resident, that economically it is to his advantage to have the area zoned as RI . Matt stated that as
45 he listened to Mark McKane' s comments and found them to be persuasive . He said there is a risk involved with letting a
46 mobile home come in, but there is a greater risk in having a homogenous society. Matt stated he supports the R3
47 classification.
48 Public comments were closed at 9 : 37pm.
49 Norma Kalk Subdivision, Tax Map # 25.- 1 -5. 1
• Lin Davidson read the SEQR . The Board declared it a Type II action . The Board reviewed and received a negative
51 declaration . Lin Davidson motioned to approve the subdivision as presented. Brad Griffin seconded. VOTE: ALL IN
52 FAVOR. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY .
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4 Town of Lansin • Plannin • Board Au • us 25 1997
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2 The Board discussed when they could get together to concentrate their efforts to come up with the right languag - to amend the
3 proposed zone ordinance. Robert Todd stated he did not think they were that far away. Tom Neiderkom agree . Matt
4 Shulman asked if there was a target date the Board was aiming for? The Board responded they will want to get 't completed
5 as soon as possible . Larry Sharpsteen stated they are not going to rush this, nor delay it, to suit somebody that s ood up at a
6 public meeting and tried to make a political issue out of it.
7 Viola Miller stated this Board should make all it' s own decisions exactly as they want them, then turn it over to he Town
8 Board, and the Planning Board will have nothing to do with it from that moment forward. The Town Board ca then hold it
9 as long as they want, or make any changes they want. Larry Sharpsteen stated in the past, the Board stated at th • public
10 meeting that there would make a determination at a later date whether any more public informational meetings ould be
11 required, but at this point with the time that has been given for response and consideration given to the written a d verbal
12 comments at the public meeting Larry thinks the consensus would be that they do not need another information . I meeting.
13 Viola Miller motioned that they do not hold another informational meeting. Robert Todd seconded. VOTE: A L IN
14 FAVOR. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY .
15 Tom Neiderkom stated that he had spoken with Susan Brock regarding the Luce Road petition to change to RI . Susan said
16 the point is moot as they are withdrawing their petition.
17 Robert Todd motioned to adjourn this meeting until Thursday, August 28 , 1997, 5 :30pm at the Lansing Town all. Dave
18 Lippert seconded. VOTE: ALL IN FAVOR. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY .
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20 Submitted by Robin Cornell .
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