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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1997-06-23 • Town oansgin PLANNING BOARD Monday , June 23 , 1997 ; 7 : 30pm PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS (*Denotes present) * Larry Sharpsteen, Chair Jacoba Baker * Viola Miller * Brad Griffin * Lin Davidson Al White * Robert Todd * David Lippert George Totman, Zoning and Code Enforcement Officer * Larry Tvaroha, Town Councilman PUBLIC PRESENT Matthew Shulman Lansing Community News Linda Finlay CDRC Larry Sharpsteen opened meeting at 7 :33 p.m. • GENERAL BUSINESS Larry Sharpsteen started the meeting by requesting that the board review the minutes from the June 9th meeting at the next meeting. The primary need for this meeting is to plan for the meeting on July 8, 1997. Larry then introduced Linda Finlay from the Community Dispute Resolution Center to the board and explained that she was there to get some background and some guidance and to set up an agenda for the July 8th meeting. Larry Sharpsteen had a few ideas regarding the meeting outline and suggested there be an introduction explaining briefly the purpose and the desire for the dated zoning ordinance was to lay the ground work for the meeting. The meeting is going to be mediated by Linda and one other person from the center. This meeting will be run similar to the meeting that was held on the comprehensive plan. Larry Sharpsteen then stated that 7 :30pm has been set out to start the meeting. Viola Miller suggested that the time should be changed to 7 : 00pm. Larry Sharpsteen interjected that the time has already been published and can not be changed. Viola then stated that she was thinking , that way people could have some time to look at maps and things before the meeting started. Larry Sharpsteen said that everything could be set up so that people will have the opportunity. Everyone will have the map because the map and the schedules will be published in this week's paper. Lin Davidson stated that he had asked for a screen and that the board did talk about overheads. Lin thought that overheads were easier than slides to shuffle on and off. That way you can have blow ups of certain areas . Lin is planning for a larger crowd than seating available. There will be a video camera in the main room 101 , and a television out in the hallway so nobody will be left out. Brad wondered if 101 was the auditorium. Larry Sharpsteen stated no it is a lecture hall at the high school. Dave Lippert stated that it has 150 fixed seats in it and then seating can be done with a couple of extra chairs per tier to bring seating occupancy up some. But that accommodations should be made out in the hallway too. Linda Finlay asked if this was the biggest space available? Larry Sharpsteen stated that it is the biggest practical space. Lin Davidson explained that it was because slides can be shown and light can be kept out easily, and where people can see because there are steps. Ms. Finlay stated that nothing makes people madder than not being able to get in. Viola stated that maybe that is good advertisement for a new Town Hall . Larry Sharpsteen agreed . • Larry Sharpsteen went on to say he scheduled 7 :30 to 7 : 35 for a brief introduction. Linda Finlay reviewed what that would cover and asked who would be giving the introduction. After asking for volunteers, Larry Sharpsteen stated he would do it. Then he stated at that point he would introduce Linda and have 5 minutes laying down the agenda and the rules of engagement so to speak. Viola asked that this include some of the things that Brad Griffin worked out from the list, that he covered so very well. Viola stated that Brad had spent a great deal of time on the list and it should be used. Larry y 2 Town of Lansing Planning Board Sharpsteen stated that he did not bring his copy with him. Lin Davidson wondered as other rules, could questions be • written? Viola stated yes, we should provide paper. Lin asked if it could be a form and that there be pencils available . Larry Sharpsteen said that he was getting to that. The rule of engagement will be discussed later. After that he scheduled 10 minutes for Tom to explain the ordinance. Viola took exception to that and stated NO WAY that the ordinance can be explained in less than 20 to 30 minutes. Larry Sharpsteen didn ' t disagree but stated if the board expected to told them. .they better do it in less . Viola stated that it did not seem worth Tom ' s time to stand up there for only 10 minutes . Brad Griffin asked Larry if he ran that time table past Tom . Larry stated that he did and Tom felt if he was limited to 10 minutes that he could give people enough of an idea to get people going on it. Larry Sharpsteen stated that it was discussed to limit this public meeting to 2 hours. Viola said that it was discussed but that she did not think that it is possible. Robert Todd then spoke up and stated that he thinks that the people that will be at this meeting for the most part, have been to some other meetings. He feels that people have a general idea of what the ordinance looks like because the maps and thel paper. So Robert Todd stated he didn 't see where Tom should spend a lot of time explaining. Robert Todd assumed that the only reason for limiting Tom ' s time was so there would be more time for questions and answers . Larry Sharpsteen agreed, that was the reason for keeping everybody ' s speaking time down . It was stated that if Tom talked for 10 more minutes , he may be able to resolve a lot of questions. Larry Sharpsteen stated that he did know what he was talking about, and that he didn 't think that it would resole anything by sitting there and talking to people that are obviously there to ask questions and not to listen to it again. We are going to be talking to about 80 people and it will be the same ones that have been to the meeting in the past . There will be; a lot of pre- formed opinions and well prepared questions. That is how Larry sees this first meeting going. Linda Finlay interjected at this point and suggested telling everyone in the introduction what kind of input and what kind of meeting this is. The way she likes to do that is by telling everyone what the board is looking for and where this meeting is in the line up Of decision making. Larry Sharpsteen stated that the board was not looking for anything, but probably would get input. Larry Tvaroha stated that the Town Board was looking for something. Linda Finlay suggested that this be really clear and also state when the next decision point is. Why is this meeting being held now? Obviously it is to give people a chance to respond to the ordinance. Larry Sharpsteen agreed and stated the reason for the meeting is to answer questions and to take input and reactions on the ordinance . Larry Tvaroha thought to tell everyone what the process is, because the boards are experts on this because they have been involved this for so long. Yet there are new people that have just started getting interested in this over the last couple of months . in the introduction if this could be explained, as well as, that it is the responsibility of the planning board to adopt an ordinance . The Town Board did reviewed it and is in general agreement with it and we are now ready to gather more input from the town. Once everyone has reviewed it, if there is need to make changes thai is possible . This is not locked in stone. Linda Finlay stated that it is very crucial for people to understand where this meeting is in relation to who make the decisions when and where. She would like to make sure that is going to be said at the beginning of the meeting. Larry Sharpsteen stated basically what the board will do is take the response, usable input, from this meeting and go back and sit down with the Town Board and say OK this is what we have and this is what we heard what do we do now. Viola Miller stated "a Planning Board is supposed to, by rules and regulations and history, to make an ordinance or work it out. It is the only thing we have. When we think we have met the publics demands and we think we have listened to the public, we then should sit down with the Town Board. I don't feel it is necessary for the Town Board to be sitting with us to talk about these things. I think we need to look at them again first and have our own reasons for thinking that this is how things should be done. Because we are working for the public good and not for any one individual person. Ana I think we have been sitting here saying that we are waiting for the Town Board to do this or that. The Town Board wants to hear from us, and to know what we see out of the meeting and what we hear. Then maybe they hear the same thing. We ate there at the informational meeting to spell out that this is the thing that we have worked on for a long time. We started with Ithe 2010 and the comprehensive plan and we have worked this out. We came to this realization and we had it reviewed by the Town Board who wishes us to go back for information through the public . Therefore we are having an informational meeting we are here to explain anything in this ordinance that needs to be explained and to listen to you as the public. We will then go back and take a hard look at what you have told us, what we see, and we will make any changes or suggestions that need to be made . We will then give it to the Town Board and then they will tell us whether these are the things they heard . I think He public should know that , that is the way we are doing it. The responsibility lies with the Planning Board as the agent that has done the work and done the thinking for the public . That is the way I see planning and that is the way I feel the Planning Board • should be doing it." Linda Finlay then asked who will make the final decision? Everyone answered that the Town Board makes the final decision. Linda then asked if that is based on the recommendation of the Planning Board and the Town Board' s own feelings? So it actually is a joint decision based on the recommendations of the Planning Board. el 3 Town of Lansing Planning Board • Robert Todd had a problem with calling it a joint decision. He stated ultimately it is not the planning board' s decision it is the Town Board. Because they can throw it out the window and say we aren 't going to do anything. So Linda Finlay clarified that the Planning Board decides what to recommend and according to you , you will make that decision based on what you have done so far and what you hear at this meeting. Then the Town Board will make the final decision on whether to except this, whether to modify it, whatever they will do with it based on their preferences as to what has been done . Viola stated that they send it back to the Planning Board to be modified. Then a public hearing is held. Larry Sharpsteen explained his reasoning behind holding a joint meeting is to stream-line the process. Robert Todd wanted to make sure that it is referred to as a proposed ordinance. Linda Finlay went over everything again to make sure that she had everything completely straight. Robert Todd explained his reason for making sure that it is referred to as the proposed ordinance is because they have gone to meetings like the Lansing Forum and people thought that it was already a done deal . They didn 't realize that it was a proposed ordinance. Lin Davidson stated that it has been worked on for a long time and it is important that people realize that it ' s not a start over either. Linda Finlay then asked , So this is not the start of it? Larry Sharpsteen stated that it was the finish. Robert Todd stated that it has been worked on for 3 or 4 years . Viola Miller stated that the planning board has worked with the Town Board during that time, and it should be stated so that people know. Linda Finlay' s next question was What is the time line on this? You the planning board will get a response from the public and answer any questions or concerns they may have. After that is done you will think about their response, if you think that there is something that has been missed , Larry Sharpsteen stated that there is an intermediate step available to which the board has discussed. Larry Sharpsteen stated that he was not at the last meeting and was not sure if maybe the idea had been thrown out. However depending on the public response, it was discussed on holding precinct meetings. Larry Tvaroha stated that the Town Board would like to assess and evaluate the results of this first meeting and see if there is any concentrated things. We are sort of getting vibes that people would think that they are left out , if there are two or three meetings held the same night. That it might be purposely that they are trying to be left out. Larry Sharpsteen stated that • maybe it is because quite frankly they aren't productive in any of the meetings they go to. Viola Miller felt that there is a lot of merit in the precinct meetings. However she thinks that if at this meeting it is noted that the questions seem to be coming from one particular part of town, that the board would announce that there would be a second informational meeting at which time, we would work with the people who are most concerned. Robert Todd agreed with Viola. Brad Griffin stated that it sounds like the plan of action is to hold the public meeting and give it our best shot and decide on the basis of that evaluation where we go from there. Lin Davidson was concerned about not being able to answer all the questions that may come up. He suggested that may be some of the questions could be answered on an individual basis. Larry Sharpsteen stated that he did not think that was a good idea and that questions should be answered out in front of everybody, because people will hear what they want to hear and they will say what they want people to believe that they were told. Viola agreed and said that is exactly why she did not want the neighborhood meetings. Larry Sharpsteen replied that is why he said if they do have the neighborhood meetings that half of the Town Board and half of the Planning Board should be there, so the same thing would be said at all the meetings. Robert Todd spoke about grouping written questions. Larry Sharpsteen stated that the board has talked about giving people pieces of paper. The questions themselves will be channeled through the CDR people and the first part of the question and answers would come totally from those written questions. Larry then asked everyone if that sounded OK. Everyone agreed. Brad Griffin wanted to know if people would be registered? Larry Sharpsteen said he didn't care about names. Larry Tvaroha said it would be nice to have names, to be able to see where most of the concern is. Larry Sharpsteen then clarified that he meant on the questions. That the questions would be given to the CDR people and they will take them at random and present them to the Planning Board and the consultants. Then if needed the Planning Board would draw on the Town• Board. Larry Tvaroha stated they should be mostly the Planning Board questions. Viola Miller stated that none should be for the Town Board. Larry Sharpsteen stated that there will be, because there will be questions about things that are the Town's responsibility. Linda Finlay stated that people will ask questions about whatever is concerning them. Lin Davidson asked if it is fair to group questions? Linda Finlay stated that it would probably be a good idea since the expected attendance is around 150 people, to take some written questions and explain .right-o .the,bat, that they should write • their questions as quickly as possible. So that we can group them and the board can spend some time on related groups of questions. But Linda also stated that people may be quite annoyed if they have to write all the questions. Another way is to ask everyone not to repeat questions and then we can ask for follow up questions until one area has been understood. So either way is how we could do it. Larry Sharpsteen figured that would be during the second round of question and answers. Based on the time that everyone would have , he expects there to be at least 50 written questions. He thought then the questions could go to the easel and take 10 or 15 questions at a time. Not to take a question right when it was asked because 1 4Town of Lansing Planning Board sometimes that can get a little to personal . Take questions 10 or 15 at a time, have the Board answer them in the order that • they were given . Viola Miller stated that when she was speaking about Tom explaining the ordinance, maybe Ihaving it announced that if they have questions to write them down and be prepared to ask it after he has finished . Robert Todd stated that questions need to be handed in otherwise someone is going to stand up and ask a question and not shut up . Larry Sharpsteen stated that is why the CDR people will be there, they are top guns at that. Lin Davidson thought that writing the questions made people really center down to their concern. II Linda Finlay seemed to feel that openness and good community participation is really important in a meeting like this. And that people should not feel like they are being managed, so that they can not say what they really need to say. IWhich is not her intent nor the Boards. So the next step is how to organize it so that everyone believes what is asked count$ . There will be some people there that want to make speeches and that will be her job to distinguish between asking questions and making speeches. There will come a point in the meeting where people will want to say how they are feeling. Larry Tvaroha stated that is what the board wants to hear. Linda Finlay stated that it makes good sense that everyone have the same information as their neighbors, That is why the questions . It would make good sense to have a clarification period in the beginning, so that people can ask their questions and really keep them clarifying questions with the understanding that the second part of the meeting, they are going to get to say how they feel about the information they have gotten . First everybody has to understand what is being proposed. Larry Sharpsteen feels it is very important to separate the people from the questions. Because otherwise there eou1d be questionable dialogue between the person asking and the person answering. If the question is not separated from the person. David Lippert stated that the written questions sound like the homework afterwards. Linda Finlay then explai fed that this can be arranged for the meeting to continue smoothly because there will be two of us and someone scribing onfhe board. What they can do is take turns organizing questions and getting them up on the board. Also ask if anybody else has a related question and jot it on the board . Not everyone will ask a question if they have to write it down, so we want to Iget that information as well. Viola Miller felt that if the people wrote their name on the question then you could ask that person to elaborate. Probably if you didn 't have many questions you could do that but if you have a lot of questions it wpuld not work. Lb Davidson stated that if questions are written, then if 6 people have the same question the board would know. Where as if • one person stood up and asked the question and 5 others had the same concerns the Board would never know. Linda Finlay stated that during the meeting, they will be going around asking how many of you think this question is important. You ' ll get the information you need by many different ways. Larry Tvaroha asked if a questionnaire would be helpful? Larry Sharpsteen thought that might seem to managed. Linda Finlay stated let' s have a first period where we are going to clarify the ordinance and everybody can get What is intended right from the Planning Board' s mouth. Then have a period where people gosay what they think. Lardy Sharpsteen questioned Linda , if there should be a second round of questions? The first round could be done from the written and the second round taken from the public and done on the easel. Robert Todd explained that he has had experience with large groups of people and written questions worked well. He does agree that after that people should have a chance to say what they think. Linda stated that her views are to do what will most suit s the Planning Board. It is a meeting to make sure that the information is clear and in the second part to hear whatever support or opposition that people may have. Thein the Planning Board can take this digest it and see what they want to do with it. Larry Sharpsteen agreed. 1 1 Larry Sharpsteen reviewed the timetable again. 7 : 30-7 : 35 Introduction done by Larry Sharpsteen, 7 : 35-7:40 Rules of Engagement, done by Linda Finlay. Linda said that is fine and that she will explain how the meeting will be run, what the ground rules are. She will try to fit everything in but may need until 7 :45 . Larry Sharpsteen stated that is fine because there is flex time at the end. Brad Griffin thought that is would be helpful to Linda if the board gave her a copy of the law that guides us . The law specifies the type of meetings regarding the ordinance . Larry Sharpsteen then informed Linda that either the Town Board or the Planning Board has the right to hold any number including zero public informational meeting. He was trying to make the point that the Town Board or the Planning Board is not required to have a public informational meeting, but we are having one . The law does not require one, only a public hearing. What we are trying to do is disseminate the information . Linda Finlay stated that she would try to explain that, but wanted to give clear instructions on the taking of questions. Larry Sharpsteen continued with the schedule. Tom Neiderkorn 7 :40 to 8 : 00pm. 8 :00- 8 : 30pm the first round of Questions and Answers. 8 :30- 9:00pm the second round of Questions and Answers . 9 : 00-9 : 30pm Responses and Comments. 9:30- 9 :45pm Wrap up. This way there is 15 minutes of float time. This will end the meeting at 10 :00pm. Viola Miller wanted to know if the board had to stay on such a straight schedule. Couldn 't the meeting continue to say 11 : 00pm if people are really wanting to ask questions . If you have an interested bunch of people who have questions, I have a problem stating that we are running a meeting from 7 : 30pm to 10 :00pm and that is it. 5 Town of Lansing Planning Board • Sometimes you cannot explain things in just a few words. Larry Sharpsteen still thought that it is best to have a fixed target time, to make people think and use their time as if it were valuable. Viola pointed out that if 50 people wanted to say something and you limit them to one minute, that is an hour. Linda Finlay stated it will be hard to get very much comment from people. Robert Todd commented that if he thought an additional hour would be going to make the informational meeting enough for the Town Board, then he would say fine. However the meeting should not be left open ended. Larry Sharpsteen said that it could be decided at the meeting. Matt Shulman asked if Matthew asks a question and gets a response, then Matthew wants to ask another question 5 minutes later, Is Matthew going to be told that he can ask his second question after everyone else has had a chance? Yes Larry Sharpsteen added that everybody will get a chance to ask a question. Viola Miller wanted to know who and when were the maps on the wall going to be explained. Larry Sharpsteen stated that Torn would be explaining. Larry Sharpsteen stated that he agreed with the explanation , but there comes a point where we need to get people to pay attention the first time too . Because the same five people ask the same questions and you may have answered them already. The answer has not changed since the last time the question was asked. Viola stated that she was talking about the explanation in the beginning, not during the questions. Larry Sharpsteen stated that he was speaking out his frustration. Matt Shulman asked if the board wanted the map printed separate. Larry Sharpsteen explained that the extra copies of Matt' s paper would be available at the meeting. The Board also has copies of the complete ordinance for sale. For the cost of printing. . . .$6.00 . Linda Finlay wanted to know what wrap up is? What are you looking for? Robert Todd stated that the board should not make any decision that night. Viola Miller wanted to know if in the introduction Larry could say on behalf of the Town what they have wanted the Planning Board to do over the years. A lot of people have no idea what a Planning Board does or that they are appointed by the Town Board to serve the town and as a handle of the Town Board. It' s only reason for being is that they serve the Town • Board and the people of Lansing. Robert Todd said technically whenever he is asked about the board, he tells them that one of the main responsibilities is subdivisions. Viola Miller stated one of the things that the board is suppose to do is thinking of things that are to come to pass in the next twenty years. If the Town needs something thought of like roads and things we are suppose to be working on it. We are an arm of the Town Board to make recommendations for the people. Larry Tvaroha stated that he could do that. Larry Sharpsteen read the article that is to be published by Matt Shulman. he let Matt know that there was a mistake. Tuesday, July 8 , 1997 not Wednesday. Matt said he will change that before printing. Lin Davidson suggested that it be stated that once the ordinance is passed it becomes a living document. So people don ' t think once this is passed this is it. Matt Shulman discussed that the discussion will continue if or even after it is adopted. Linda Finlay just wanted to point out that the schedule has a whole hour for questions and only a half hour for response and comments. It may be that that will get shifted around a little. Lin Davidson went over the structure, the Town Board plus the Planning Board will be there to answer the questions. Larry Tvaroha stated that this is a Planning Board meeting , and the Town Board should not have to sit up front. Lin Davidson then asked how many microphones would be needed. Three microphones were agreed on. Larry Sharpsteen asked about a portable mic. Lin Davidson asked Brad Griffin if he had looked into it. David Lippert advised that since he has taught in that room, the board should realize that the sound comes from the back to the front. So when you set up any kind of sound system there really should be more in the front then in the back. Larry Sharpsteen was concerned with the air conditioning and ventilation . A large Fan was discussed. Viola Miller was concerned with parking. Everyone agreed that there was enough parking. Then Viola wondered about custodial services. Larry Sharpsteen went over the price structure for CDRC . Planning time which is tonight is $40.00hr. The co-facilitation is 2 people. The cost is $ 100 .00hr. Then there is a scribe which is $20 . 00hr. Linda Finlay will fax a paper to Larry Sharpsteen regarding the question paper. Linda Finlay explained why twoeo le, it is P P because you are expecting over 100 people. That large of a crowd is hard for one person to manage. Brad Griffin wanted to know who the scribe was and what they did . Linda Finlay explained it as a person who will be working on the news print., and will keep an entire record of the meeting for you. It will include the level of interest in a 6 Town of Lansing Planning Board particular question . Brad then asked if it was a stenographic record . Linda replied on news print. Larry Shdrpsteen replied it will be notes on an easel . Robert Todd wondered if the meeting should be taped. David Lippert said there will be a video tape. Lin Dai idson replied that another microphone and tape will be best. Larry Sharpsteen asked Debbie Meeker to come to the meeting officially. Debbie stated that she will be there. Brad Griffin stated that he thought it would be rather likely that there will be questions or comments that both we and the Town Board will be required to think about and evaluate later. If we where to drop those, either on those big charts or in any other way, it would be unfortunate. Linda Finlay wanted to know about video equipment. Brad Griffin asked Dave Lippert if the room was air conditioned? Dave stated in the past it has been a trade off as to ventilation or being able to hear. Lin Davidson said that they will rent what they need from Rick' s Rental . Linda Finlay did a quick statement of the information that she gathered from this meeting. Larry Sharpsteen requested Linda for the question sheet to be multi purpose for questions and comments . Maybe a sheet that can be ripped in ht.. Brad Griffin wanted to make sure that there will be a table or two available for registration. Matt Shulman suggested that teenagers be available to run the registration. Larry Sharpsteen state that this could be a good idea. Robert Todd is willing to take responsibility for setting up the registration and the kids. Lin Davidson stated that the sound system should be rented from Rick ' s Rental . There should be a portable mcrophone. Robert Todd wanted to know if there was someone that normally is responsible. j Viola Miller wanted it to be decided who was going to answer the questions at the meeting. Larry Sharpsteen tated that in the past that the whole Board has always answered the questions and should continue to do so. Viola asked about technical questions . Larry Sharpsteen stated technical question would be Tom. Then it was discussed how long the Bo4rd ' s reply should be . Larry Sharpsteen stated it should be limited to the same time that is given for questions . Viola Miller told the Board that Cheryl is very sorry but she will be out of town. She will be in the jungle looking at animals. • Brad Griffin was wondering about other media, and if the ground rules for questions will apply to them as well? Matt Shulman stated they are not likely to ask questions during the meeting but afterwards. Larry Sharpsteen asked Matt Shulman what the final cost was regarding the printing. Matt Shulman stated $ 500 .00 . The Board thanked Matt. David Lippert stated that the next meeting will be July 14, 1997 . Larry Sharpsteen said that was correct. Lin Davidson made a motion to adjourn the meeting; David Lippert seconded. VOTE: ALL IN FAVOR; MO—ION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY This meeting was adjourned at 8 : 56pm Submitted byDebra A Meeker •