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TOWN OF LANSING PLANNING BOARD
Date : April 11 , 1994
Time : 7 : 30 PM
Place : Lansing Town Hall Board Room
AGENDA
7 : 30 PM Open Meeting - General Business
Approve Minutes for March
41011
7 : 40 PM - Lansing ' s 6th Grade Planning Dept . Presentation
8 : 00 PM Dennis Osika - Discuss Slottje & Harris Boundry Change
Dandy View Heights Road # 25 - 1 - 7 . 62
8 : 15 PM Jeff Utila - ( Al Fulkerson ) Sub - Division # 12 - 1 - 23 . 21
8 : 30 PM Ivar Jonson - Major Sub - Division - Cherry Road # 44 - 1 - 33 . 2
8 : 45 PM Jack Baker - Request for a Two Family Dwelling in
Rural Residential Zone
9 : 00 PM Norm Tidd Estate - 1 Lot Sub - Division # 37 . 1 - 6 - 18 . 2
9 : 15 PM Any other business to come before the Board
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TOWN OF LANSING
Planning Board
April 11, 1994; 7:30 p .m.
PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS
(* Denotes present)
* Jackie Baker Cheryl Nickel
* Lin Davidson Larry Sharpsteen, Chairperson
* Brad Griffin * Robert Todd
Viola Miller * Al White
* George Totman, Zoning and Code Enforcement Officer
Larry Tvaroha, Town Councilman
PUBLIC PRESENT
Lansing Middle School Students
Sam Baker 1388 Ridge Road
Danielle Cook 507 Salmon Creek Road
Ben Darfler 200 Scofield Road
Jenna Doucette 53 Buck Road
Miles Grover 250 Drake Road
Veronica Lovely 452 Jerry Smith Road
*Angelyn Nicholson 71 Cayuga Street, Trumansburg (teacher)
Aszur Rollins 129 Davis Road
Marlaine and Rick Darfler 200 Scofield Road
Mr. and Mrs. Ivar Johnson
Kevin Kauffman
Norm Tidd, Jr.
Larry Sharpsteen called the meeting to order at 7:35 p.m.
Review of Minutes from Meeting Conducted March 14, 1994
Lin Davidson made a motion to accept the minutes as presented; Al White seconded.
VOTE; ALL IN FAVOR; MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY
GENERAL BUSINESS
Report from Lansing 's 6th Grade Planning Department - Sam Baker, a 6th grade student,
stated that the Planning Group has taken approximately one month to do a project on
the town center. They looked at the possibility of locating the town center where the
current balifields are, and creating new ballfield across the road on the new town
land . Another student researched and mapped a bus system. She felt it would be
important with a town center to have public transportation to access it. The Planning
aGroup also decided that they would like to have a two-year college located in or near
the town center. They also considered hotels .
Town of Lansing Planning Board
Page 2
April 11 , 1994
Angelyn Nicholson, the art teacher at Lansing Middle School, stated that these
students worked very hard on this project. They submitted plans and discussed
whether they would want residential or commercial in the area . The public and civic
projects include a tennis court and basketball court, snack bar, playground, and bus
garage. They also decided that a daycare center would also be appropriately located
in the park area. They even submitted a plan for a "skywalk" and a tunnel, but for
economic reasons determined that the skywalk would be more feasible. This would
connect the town center with the recreational area without interfering with traffic on
Route 34.
To pull all these ideas together, the students decided that they would like to see a
town center green with park benches and a fountain. The buildings would surround
that green area . They recommended that the paths and parking areas be lighted so
that delivery trucks could get in to make their deliveries. They also determined the .
need for other roads to divert traffic from the main road and away from the town
center.
The students also were very involved in planning the structure of the new town. hall .
Ms. Nicholson explained that each student had drawn floor plans for each floor of
the new building, and had talked about construction and planning and what
architects do. The Planning Group displayed and described many slides of their
concepts for the town center buildings to the Planning Board members .
Larry Sharpsteen complimented the students on their work, stating that some of Ito
their work parallels the work of the committees. Brad Griffin also thanked the
students for their work, and specifically to Danielle Cook who had given him a
guided tour of their project. Hefelt that their models brought to life some of their
concepts. He was also impressed with their strong sense of history in the narratives
that were posted on the boards around the room . Lin Davidson also thanked them
all commenting that it was nice to see all their work, when it was displayed in the
cafeteria .
Larry Sharpsteen questioned what sources the Planning Group used in their research.
One of the students responded that they gathered much of their information from the
teacher, a field trip to Ludlowville, and from personal interviews with local people.
Jackie Baker questioned whether they developed a range for the town center. Ms.
Nicholson responded that they didn' t do the project to scale, instead only did
approximations. Larry Sharpsteen questioned whether the students have seen any of
the maps that have been completed by the committees. They responded no. Larry
felt they would be surprised at how similar the projects are.
SUBDIVISION, Ivar Johnson, Cherry Road, Tax Map #12-1-23.21
Ivar Johnson appeared before the Planning Board requesting approval of a six-lot
subdivision of his property on the corner of Cherry and North Triphammer Roads.
He is proposing to building a road to town specifications, and once complete
Town of Lansing Planning Board Page 3
April 11 , 1994 • fr.
wdedicate it to the town. The lots will be approximately one acre each, and do have
access to public water.
Al White thought there was some guideline passed by the town about turnarounds
that the Town Highway Superintendent recommends "T" turnarounds instead of
cul-de-sacs. George stated that he would have to look back at his records to see if
anything was passed or not. Larry stated that if there was a decision made, then the
Planning Board will ask Mr. Johnson to make the cul-de-sac into a T. Mr. Johnson
stated that he gathered the information about the cul-de-sacs from the published
town guidelines. George added that if in fact something has been passed, he will
update all the guideline manuals.
Mr. Johnson stated that the road is all within the Town of Lansing. He had asked the
Village of Lansing whether they would be willing to have the road half and half; the
Village Planning Board recommended that the road be entirely in the town.
George clarified that Mr. Johnson appeared at tonight's meeting to request approval
of the concept, since he still needs to get approval from the Health Department as to
whether or not the septic systems will be feasible. Brad Griffin questioned Mr.
Johnson as to whether or not he saw the possibility in the feature of the development
of the land surrounding his parcel. Mr. Johnson stated that there is approximately 85•
acres of land surrounding his, which is owned by Cornell University. Mr. Johnson
believes that the water line that is shown on his map is for Cornell 's property at the
rear. Robert Todd questioned how the lots in the Village would get access to water.
Mr. Johnson stated that those lots already have rights in the Village, and the other
lots will get their water from the new water line he is planning to install. George
Totman added that the Village will not Mr. Johnson have any curb cuts from
Triphammer Road. Mr. Johnson stated that all the lots will be for single-family
dwellings of approximately 1500 square feet, selling for approximately $140,000.
It was agreed this meeting could be considered a developer's conference. The
Planning Board will wait for Mr. Johnson to speak to the Health Department, and for
George to get clarification on the decisions made for the cul-de-sac, before it makes
any motion on this proposal. They will also conduct another SEQR when Mr.
Johnson returns with his revised proposal.
tack Baker Request
Although Jack Baker hadn 't arrived for the meeting and probably wouldn' t be
coming, George began to fill the board members in on the issues surrounding this
request. Mr. Baker's request is to whether or not he could build a duplex on Water
Wagon Road. The ordinance says that for two-family dwellings in that zoning
district, the request must come before the Planning Board for review. Upon further
review by George, he discovered that there is a deed restriction on the Hicks'
subdivision only allowing single-family homes.
Town of Lansing Planning Board Page 4
April 11 , 1994
George stated that he brought this restriction to the attention of Mr. Baker and
recommended that he consult with Mr. Hicks to confirm that deed restriction.
George is taking Mr. Baker's no show for, this meeting as an indication that the deed
restriction for a single-family home is in effect, and that Mr. Baker will be
withdrawing his request for a duplex. .
ONE-LOT SUBDIVISION, Norm Tidd Estate, Asbury Road, Tax Map #37.4-6-18.2
Mr. Tidd's son appeared before the Planning Board to request approval of a one-lot
subdivision. George Totman explained that this one-lot subdivision was previously
approved by the Planning Board . The Tidd's are also asking that a 20 foot right of
way be approved from lot #3, which will be deeded to the lot #1 for access from
Asbury Road. Mr. Tidd stated that he would prefer to have the access to lot #1 come
from the 119 feet of road frontage he owns, rather than from lot #3 which he is trying
to sell. Mr. Tidd will have to lower the price of lot #3 if the access is put on that
parcel. George stated that there is public water available to those lots .
Larry Sharpsteen stated that without seeing a plan for the potential subdivision of lot
#1 , he does not want to see access from lot #3. Mr. Tidd explained that the family is
selling off the lots to pay property taxes at this point, and they aren ' t sure what the
long-term plans are going to be for the remainder of the land (lot #1 ) . George
confirmed in the guidelines that the minimum requirement for road frontage is 100
feet. If the 20 foot access were to be placed on lot #1 , that would leave just under 100 fb
feet of road frontage remaining. ' Larry and Robert suggested putting the access to the
east side of lot #1 , which would allow easier access to the back parcel behind lot #2
and would make the remainder of lot #1 a deep lot.
Al White made a motion that the Planning Board will accept a 20-foot-driveway on
the east side of lot #1 to a proposed flaglot subdivision of that lot at some future
date, and would waive the requirement for 100 feet of road frontage since the
remaining footage would be less than 100 feet. Lin Davidson seconded. Robert Todd
questioned what responsibility there would be for the adjoining lot owners as far as
the gravel driveway is concerned. Mr. Tidd stated that the gravel driveway which on
the map shows extending through lot #1 is no longer there or in use.
Larry Sharpsteen clarified for Mr. Tidd that the subdivision regulations allow for the
existence and creation of flaglots. This board, acting under the current subdivision
regulations, is contemplating giving Mr. Tidd verbal assurance that a flaglot will be
acceptable in this situation. The Planning • Board has built in a waiver for the
reduction of 100 feet to 99.4 feet of road frontage. Robert Todd questioned what
would happen to Mr. Tidd's request for a flaglot if the subdivision regulations were
to change. Al added that there is always the possibility that the regulations will
change before Mr. Tidd comes back to the Planning Board, but it is unlikely that any
changes will take place within the next few years.
ate
VOTE: ALL IN FAVOR; MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY
• Y3 ` .,
Town of Lansing Planning Board Page 5
April 11, 1994
IIIIUpdate on Sewer Study - Kevin Kauffman
Larry Sharpsteen introduced Kevin Kauffman, indicating that he has been working on
an ad hoc central sewer district with Jeff Clark and with the cooperation of the Town
Board . They have had several meetings with the Town Engineer and the Town
Board, and have done quite a bit of research into potential ways of handling the
problem of wanting to have development in the "downtown " area. What the town is
faced with at the moment are a series of rapidly failing septic systems. This leaves
an area of desired development where it can't be developed unless something can be
done to get rid of the sewage. •
Kevin Kauffman introduced himself and explained that his is speaking tonight on
behalf of the group that Larry spoke of. He is the executive director of Bolton Point.
The economic feasibility of the "town center" has been questioned without the ability a
of sewer collection and a treatment system. He explained that he and Jeff Clark had
met with Jeannie Kirby and Dave Herrick to try to develop a strategy to bring to the
Town Board. It was suggested that they pull together a survey petition. The specific
area of discussion is bordered by Asbury on the south, Triphammer on the east, Buck
Road on the north, and Portland Point Road on the west. He stated that what his .
group is intending to do is, within the boundaries described, to talk to all the "do ,
residential and commercial people that are in the area to see if they are interested in
having sewer in the area and secondly whether they are willing to pay for it. With
that response, go to the Town Board and have the Town Engineer investigate if a x
sewer district is feasible.
Larry Sharpsteen stated that there is a window of opportunity with the package plant
that the state put in for the prison, and also the fact that the negotiations with the
Watch Tower people seem to be continuing and they are serious about wanting to
bring their school into the area . They are also serious in their willingness to make a
rather substantial contribution to the town to support the infrastructure that they will
be using, since they aren' t going to be paying any taxes. Their plan is to put in a
package plant similar to the one that the state built, however, in negotiations so far
they have been amenable to picking up the costs of laying down a trunkline and
hooking into a municipal sewer plant elsewhere. The potential is there that they
would recognize that they would not have to build a plant and they would not have
to maintain and operate a plant, and therefore the potential for their contribution , .
increases. A suggestion has also been made that the town take over the state's plant,
increase the size of it and put in pumping stations so that the central area is collected
up into the state plant and the Watch Tower feeds into that.
x .
Larry stated that the state's current capacity is 50,000 gallons, and the town would
need approximately 200,000 gallons to cover the area defined above. He felt that it
a would be more feasible to build the station downhill from this area, then gathering •
the sewage from the Watch Tower down into that. There wouldn' t be a need for 'II 1'
pumping stations, and the infrastructure becomes easier to put in and maintain.
e .
Town of Lansing Planning Board Page 6
April 11 , 1994
Larry added that the discussions with the Village of Cayuga Heights and City of
Ithaca for the south end of the town are continuing.
Kevin stated that the comprehensive plan of the Lansing 2010 project is to put a
sewer plant at Portland Point, which would also take the sewer from Ludlowville
and Myers. Robert questioned the cost difference of pumping the sewage versus
gravity. Kevin stated that the cost difference is significant. He stated, for example,
that the cost of a clean water pumping station would cost approximately $50,000 for
the capital cost and to run it would be approximately $8,000 - $10,000 per month.
Based on the size of the plant being discussed, the collection system and the
treatment system could be done for less than $10 million dollars.
The Portland Point Road site would need to be placed somewhere between Ridge
Road and the lake, since Portland Point is now privately owned and is under
consideration for other development. Larry stated that the philosophy for sewage
used to be that the plants are built on the largest body of water possible and run the
line out as deep as possible into the body of water and let it diffuse that way. The
state 's plant was built on a 10,000 gallon per hour creek and they dump the treated
outflow into that, and that in turn is treated by the aerobic action of the water by
leeching out through the stream bed .
Robert wanted to know how many people would need to be served to justify the
plant at $10 million dollars. Kevin cited an example of a city in California of 8,000illo
people that built a tertiary plant for approximately $8 million dollars. The cost for
hook-up per building lot was approximately $450. For any new construction, the cost
would be approximately $4,000 initially, and then $450 per year.
Larry added that there has also been discussion of a package plant, which would cost
less to build, but the maintenance costs would be much higher. George commented
thafthe cost of water in Lansing is expensive, and there are a great number- of people
complaining about the cost. He didn' t feel people would be willing to pay even more
money for sewer. Larry agreed, but stated that the problem isn 't going to go away
by itself.
Larry stated that Kevin came to the Planning Board to bring the members up to date,
and that Kevin will also be meeting with the Town Board at their next meeting.
After this informational meeting, the group members will be distributing a
questionnaire /survey to all the people in the benefit area to ascertain a desire. Kevin
stated that the plan is to go door to door and share the information with them and
get their feelings on the topic. The next phase of this is that the group will be going
to other towns and finding out what they have done and the costs.
Larry commented that this project will be titled "Lansing Central Sewer" .and not the
Town Center Sewer. The group doesn't want this project's efforts to be
misunderstood. Kevin identified the other members of the discussion group as 410
follows: Larry Sharpsteen, Fred Rogers, John Yaws, Jerry Smith, Bob Wilkerson, and
Town of Lansing Planning Board Page 7
April 11 , 1994 .4:
v , .
41.
Giff Howard. This group does not represent the Town Board or the Planning Board, P
but is an outgrowth of the Planning Board's activities. ,
OTHER BUSINESS
Portland Point - George handed out some information to the board members to let t ,
them know that the Pinney's are planning to put in a marina at Portland Point. ; _
Autumn Ridge - The developer originally planned for 48 units. When the Village wA
would not allow the second means of egress on Burdick Hill Road, the Town cut the f .
i
development down to 25 lots. There are some units in the first 25 that can't be built §
on because of Health Department regulations. The owner's interpretation of the
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town's ruling is that there can't be more than 25 units on that development. If the
Health Department eliminates four of the lots, the owner can still have up to 25, but A .
will need to build the road a little farther in order to have four additional lots
accepted. Al White commented that he has no problem with that interpretation.
Licensing Cats - George described the literature he handed out as part of an effort 4i
being made by the SPCA in handling the cost of dealing with cat complaints. They 4'`
are trying to find a way to be cost effective . He asked the board members to review 4 .
the literature and give comments. J .
Recognition of the Work of the Committee Members - Larry stated that Brad and
Jackie felt it was important that the Planning Board recognize the efforts of all the i
Lansing 2010 committee members. Brad drafted a letter which he read aloud for the
board members to comment. Larry felt the letter was fine and .just asked that it be ,
written as though coming from the Planning Board as a whole. Lin also suggested
that a letter also be written for the school.
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Lin Davidson made a motion to adjourn the meeting; Brad seconded. VOTE: ALL IN
FAVOR; MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY }
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This meeting was adjourned at 9:45 p.m. "
Submitted by Michelle Eastman
The next meeting is scheduled for April 25, 1994. th
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