HomeMy WebLinkAbout1987-12-14 1
• TOWN OF LANSING PLANNING BOARD
t"1iiin. I: ': ; DELIEr1E; ER 1 =1 , 1987
Presort J . Harrio , Chair , Frances Rarriin , Carol Karmen , Al White ., Viola
Miller, Herb Beckwith , Linda Hirvonen , Larry Sharpsteen .
Georgn Totrrirrn .
Also Present at the Meeting : Thomas W . Kirby , Cal Warren , Barbara Lok ,
Creighton J . Lusk , Joan Marie Ley , Candy and Alex Cirno , Richard and Sonia
Thaler, Thomas Cirafici , Ernie Boles , Joy Orear.
The regular meeting of the Town of Lansing Planning Boord commenced at
7 : 30 pm , celled to order by J . Hama , Chair. Tile minutes for November were
corrected , correcting the spelling of amended on page one . Rarriin moved to
accept the minutes and they were accepted unanimously .
Fran Rarriin announced that she had sent an attendance sheet around for all
to sign and recommended that this be done at each meeting . Viola Miler
• agreed and all voted to cc► ritinue this practice .
Ramie introduced JoAnn Vliet , hired as secretory for the December
meeting . The Board discussed its budget for 1966 which contains $ 60u for
secretarial help . 11i11er suggested that we ask JoAnn ;Viet to assist us
and to see how she likes the work . 'W' hite suggested that an adjustment
might have to be made if our funds run out and that we could then go to the
Town Board to discuss our situation . Karnrnen seconded White ' s motion and
it was passed unanimously .
r ariirrien reported on Planning Board members ' terms of appointment .
Boririie Boles , Town Clerk , went through the past Town Board Minutes for
seven years and compiled an official list of terrns of appointment .
Boles determined the following :
Name Date oppointed Term Expires
Miller , Viola Jon . 1 , 1981 Dec: . 31 , 1987
Homo , John Jr . June 18 , 1964 Dec .. 31 , 1987
Hinionen , Linde Sept . 13 , 1979 Dec . 31 , 1966
Shorpsteen , Lorry June 16 , 1964 Dec . 31 , 1989
Kammer) , Carol Nov . 13 , 1941 Dec . 31 , 1991
Ramie , Frances Nov . 12 , 1965 Dec: . 31 , 1991
White , Alvin Nov . 12 , 1985 Dec . 31 , 1992
Beckwith , Herb Feb . 12 , 1966 Dec . 31 , 1992
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Not everyone agreed with these dates but it 'NUS determined that since
• they were in the official Town Minutes , we had two options : we could
follow these dates from 1966 forward , or we could petition the Town to
alter the Town Minutes . Miller moved that she ascertain , by use of the
Planning Board minutes , who the members [ of the Planning Board ] are and
w hat their terms are , before the January meeting . White seconded this
motion . Karnrnen volunteered to write a letter to the Town Board to ask
that those persons with terms ending or already ended be reappointed to
the Planning Board . Homo thought a letter might be premature . No action
w as taken .
Viola Miller reported on the recent County Plarining Board meeting at
w hich she reported on the Town of Lansing . Miller stated : I tried to give
it somehting of a historical value . I feel we have riot kept up with the
development of our town . We hoped for greater cooperation between the
southern end of town and the northern end . In general , I stressed traffic
as being one thing that needs to be taken care of in cooperation with the
surrounding towns . George [Totrrianl was there , and I asked him to say a
few things .
• Miller also rioted that she would be away for much of the winter. She
stated she " would like the [ Planningl Board to recommend to the Town
Board that I ani willing to serve as a County representative again , if they
w ant me to . And I understand that they do . But I would like to recommend
Linda [ Hirvoneril be the alternate . She has spoken with me about it , arid she
w ould be happy to do that . An alterante cannot vote , but she can be there
and know what ' s going on ; so she might in the future take over. "
Noma announced that on 25 �January 1 gsa Torn Ni ederkorn will meet with
the Planning Board to talk about town districts and land use and what
planning we might consider. Miller suggested that we also discuss with
Niederkorn how to go about a study for a sewer.
Karmen offered to attend the next Town Board meeting in January as
Planning Board representative .
Old and New Business completed , the Chair took up the evening ' s agenda .
Barbara Lok : The Chair asked if iirs . Lok had brought in the revised
• copies of her subdivision map . Mrs . Lok replied that at the last meeting
the Planning Board required two changes :
1 . a statement that the land was in the airport zone ,
2 . that there would be no further subdivision allowed .
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Mrs . Lok brought in the maps but found later that they had not been signed .
Homo explained that the Board wanted a 60 foot easement to lots 3 and 4.
• Lok explained that those lots were served by two separate driveways , near
each other, but separate . The problem was discussed : the driveways go
only to the front of the two back parcels , the land behind cannot be built
upon because it is in the Hazard Zone ; future development in that area is
unlikely .
l ammen moved that we rescind our former request about driveways and
accept this map as it has now been presented to us . Sharpsteen seconded .
There was no further discussion and the motion was accepted unanimously .
Home signed three copies of the Lok subidision reap and instructed Mrs . Lok
to return with one additional copy for his signature . The Planning Board
officer kept one copy for our files .
The Chair recognized Tom Kirby who came to the Planning Board to
review the building of restroom facilities on the Town Playground behind
the Town Hall . The plan was made by the State Park Commission . The
Planning Board discussed the building : it will be expandable , it will riot
contain showers , it will be used only during the warm months and locked
• the rest of the year, it will only have cold water and it will be constructed
of cinder blocks at ground level . Kirby had come to the Planning Board on
the recommendation of the County Department of Health . The Chair moved
that although we have no authority in this matter, that we signal our
approval of the plan by vote . Sharpsteen seconded and the motion was
unanimously approved .
Whispering Pines : Richard Thaler reported :
1 . that he has been in touch with Jon Anderson of the Health
Department who wants a letter from the Planning Board concerning who
will be lead agency .
2 . The Health Department is not doing specifications for septic
systems . Mr. Fabroni noted the septic system locations on the map
submitted to us at our last meeting with the Thalers . The septic system
plan will be submitted to the Health Department and a copy will come to
the Board .
3 . This presentation tonight concerns lots 4, 5 , 6 , 7 and 6 .
4. Concerning the water system , there is grouting to a level of
20 feet where they encountered bedrock . The water system has to meet
• design standards .
Thaler noted that all our concerns have been met . " If I could
get it through this evening - - a resolution approving these next five lots ,
bringing the total to eight - - I could give Anderson a copy of your
resolution saying you would be the lead agency .
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• Miller noted that the Town Board will serve as lead agency . That the
request for approval of five lots makes Whispering Pines a major
subdivision . Thaler noted that they would probably request five to eight
lots each time they . come to the Planning Board .
Home asked for a detailed drainage plan and Thaler noted that it is on file
w ith the Planning Board . Hirvonen asked about any commitments Thaler
might have from the Town Highway Department concerning the road and
Thaler replied that all he needs to do is meet their specifications and that
a letter from them is on file . Miller asked about the total number of lots
and Thaler noted there would be between 50 and 54 on 62 acres .
Hirvonen noted that the Planning Board is allowed to approve a percentage
of a total subdivision without approving the entire subdivision . The first
three lots have been approved , and now the Thalers are seeking approval of
five more lots .
r; ammen moved to approve the next portion of Whispering Pines , lots 4, 5 ,
6 , 7 , and "o . White seconded . Hirvonen amended the motion to state that
our aproval be subject to meeting Health department requirements and the
SEUR determination . Thaler noted that the SEUR application was filed and •
approved . Miller commented that there might be a change of the
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proceedure of SEQR ' s , and that they must be approved by the lead agency , in
this case , the Town Board . Thaler requested a letter from the Planning
Board to the Town Board concerning the SEUR and lead agency status .
Hirvonen noted that a public hearing was needed . She stated that the
Thalers can put the entire subdivision on the agenda for the public meeting
instead of having repeated public hearings for each part . Hirvonen noted
that Article 4, Section 404 of the Regulations state, that as long as the
part that is being developed contains at least ten percent of the total and
conforrns to these rules and regulations , a second public hearing can be
w aived .
Kamrnen amended her motion . She moved that we grant conditional
approval of lots 4 through 8 , contingent upon approval of the Health
Department and the SEUR ; and that we waive the public hearing and waive
the time requirement . Beckwith seconded . Horna called for a vote and all
• approved with one abstention from Viola Miller.
Homo noted that the Thalers , the Town Board and the Health Department
w ill be notified by letter of our action .
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• Chino : Appeared for Annual Review . Alex and Candy Cima submitted
information about Horizon Village to the Planning Board . Candy Cima noted
that they followed the Health Department regulation: concerning the
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swimming pool and they have installed a 5 foot fence . There is no diving
board , and when the pool is open , there will be a full - time lifeguard .
There is life - safety equipment available at all times . The pool will be
open this spring . It will have a solar cover and a winter cover, and when
unused , the pool is locked .
Candy Cima noted that the road through the subdivision is now the Town ' s
responsibility and it has not been completely finished . hie Town has
promised to finish the road in the spring [ 1986 ] .
The Planning Board thanked the Cirna ' s for their appearance and
congratulated them on what they have accomplished .
Joe Lust Mr . Lusk was accompanied by Cal Warren , a real estate broker
w ho is helping Mr. Lusk with a proposed sub division on Woods Edge Road .
Mr. Lusk explained the history of the property and they presented a map of
the proposed sub - division . Mr. Lusk would like to sell his present
property on Route 34 and build a house on Lot 3 . His daughter and
son - in - law might build on lot 2 . Behind these two lots , there is a parcel
487 feet long for which a proposed map was submitted .
The Planning Board had a number of questions and suggestions . Concerns
w ere raised about the wideth of the proposed road , about the lots , about
w ater and sewer, and about the overall plan . Mr . Warren explained that
they proposed single family dwellings to cost approximately $ 20 , 000 per
lot , for houses to cost between $ 90 and 130 , 000 .
Instead of a road with long driveways to the back lots , it was suggested
that a loop be devised , and that houses be placed facing the loop in order to
create a sense of community and also provide for service by safety
equipment if ever necessary . Sharpsteen noted that a 60 foot right of way
for a loop road would maintain services to all of the lots .
Mr. Warren and Mr. Lusk stated that they would take our suggestions under
advisement , would look again at the land , and would return to the Planning
• Board in January . They have the long form SEUR . Mr. Warren also noted
that he expected a favorable reaction to the development from the
residents of Woods Edge .
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East Lake : Leather' s development [ on East Shore Drivel : Ernie Bales
represented the Leather' s development . The purchase order has been
accepted and the property survey is being prepared . The Health Department
did deep hole tests and a copy of that report was presented to the Planning
Board . Also an Environmental Assessment form was submitted . Bales
noted that this development was contingent upon obtaining a satisfactory
w ater supply , and the creation of a water district . At the moment , water
w ill be obtained from Bolton Point . There is a bydrant located in the
'vilage of Lansing , on Route 34 , and Bales presented a schematic plan of
the porposed water district . Bales noted that if e larger water district
w ere created , including the Mahool property to the north , this would also
be satisfactory . Bales requested information about the exact location of
the easement from Sun Path to which East Lake will provide a connection
for north south access .
The Planning Board questioned Mr. Bales about East Lake , noting that we
had believed that there had been discussions between Leathers and Mahool
concerning water. Bale .. noted that he did not think such discussions had
taken place . Bales said that he preferred a water district in the Town
because East Lake falls in the Town but at present , there is water from
• the 'village at a hydrant at the southern end of the parcel of land . Miller
suggested that the East Lake developers talk with the Town concerning
w ater before approaching the Village . Bales noted that Torn Miller had
said to ask the Town Planning Board for a resolution of the matter but
Miller noted that the Planning Board could not make a motion until we
discuss the matter with the Town Board to determine how they wish us to
proceed on such matters . Bales wondered if this meant that he should
make a presentation to the Town Board .
Horna suggested that the Planning Board write a letter to the Town Board
to discus, the rriatter of water for the Mahool property and for East Lake
and any other developments that might be proposed in the future .
Concerning the right - of - way between the Sun Path land and East Lake ,
Bales noted that East Lake is agreeable to putting this on the map and
needs only to be told exactly where the connection should be made . It was
suggested that Bales see George Totrnan and consult the original map
which gives the location of the Sun Path easement which would determine
the location for East Lake . When questioned about the right - of - way ,
• Hirvonen noted that there is no question in our he , the Planning Board ]
minds . It should be on the map downstairs . Bales noted , that with the
location determined , then East Lake could continue with their planning .
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S Home asked about the e 'vnironrnental assessment form submitted by Bales .
Since such forms have a 30 day limit , and since the lard under question is
not yet owned by East Lake , it was suggested that Bales keep the
environmental assessment form until ownership is established and then
submit it for action .
The question of the designation of the East Lake land as agricultural was
discussed .
Larry Sharpsteen agreed that he would submit a letter to the Town Board
to the effect that the Planning Board has two areas along Route 34 that
have come to us and expressed interest in acquiring town water.
Home asked for a nominating committee for Board officers . Kammen and •
Hirvonen and Homa volunteered and will present a slate at the January
meeting .
Miller requested intormation about the regulations concerning ag districts .
Totrnan noted that the county in in the process of drawing up all the ag
• districts and wants to consolidate the two ag districts in Lansing .
Homo noted that he has some organizational ideas for the Planning Board
including setting up a matrix system so we could follow subdivisions more
carefully .
Totman asked if the Planning Board , before it adjourned , might listen to
Jay Orear who was not on the agenda .
Hirvonen stated that she has some concern about roads in Lansing . She
spoke about the mariner in which roads are accepted by the Town and about
one specific example of a road ( noted by Mr. Horner for his subdivision ]
where we were given specific information on which we acted but which
has subsequently turned out not to be the case . Miller seconded Hirvonen ' s
concern and others commented that we do not have a clear understanding
of what the intention ' s of the Town are concerning new roads .
Jay Orear spoke to the Planning Board concerning his land on Sun Path . At
the last meeting between the Planning Board and Orear he was told that
the right - of - way , originally on his map , which he removed , must be
• returned to the map . He was also instructed to investigate a water
district for any new subdivision he planned .
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Concerning the right - of - way , Orear stated that in 1975 , he submitted a
drawing with two easements , one to the north and one to the south , coming
off the T on Sun Path .
Hirvonen noted that it might be best for Orear to take up the matter with
the Town Board . Orear answered that " I am aware of the Planning Board ' s
decision , and I did offer to Bonfield to pay him fair market value for that
acreage . That strip was roughtly a third of an acre . I estimated it to be
w orth $, 3 , 500 I discussed this with [ Robert ] Williamson [ Orear' s lawyer
and also lawyer for the Town of Lansing ) . He advised me to do it , to
submit offers in writing to both of therm [ meaning Beischer and Bonfield ] .
They have both turned down the offers . Also , Williamson recommended ,
and I am preprared to do this - - to put that money in an escrow account ,
w ith the understanding that the Town of Lansing can use that money to
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evoke Eminent Domain and purchase that land . "
Horns noted that he did riot see why the Town would want to get involved
w ith this . it would be an additional expense to the Town to go through
those proceedings .
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Orear said he did not remember being asked to supply easements both north
and south and V . III 1er, who was chair of the Planning Board at the time ,
said there is more reason to go to the north than to go south for a road in
that area . Horns asked if Beischer knew of the easement when he bought
his land . Orear said he [ Beischer] eras satisfied as long as no easement
w as put in his deed . Miller commented that " you can ' t have a deed without
it being there . "
Orear answered , " 'Wiliiamson feels that I am acting fully in good faith , if i
w ould put up this escrow account , having made these fair offers in good
faith . Let me point out , I have discussed it with the people who have
houses there . I dont want to get involved with them with a conflict of
interest . We would prefer not to have Sun Path connected with the
Leather' s road to the north . Sun Path works beautufully . I am suggesting
to the Planning Board that there is no need to connect Sun Path to the
other road . There is a very large turnaround , and it is very well engineered
and designed . "
Rarmi n asked for the official maps to see what was approved . Orear said
• his wife claims only one access w s requested . He also noted that " I have
a letter from Bonfield , saying that he would sell that easement , if I paid
the equivalent of $$ 6 , 000 , plus give him and others beach privileges down
near- my cottage , which we considered . I really shouldn ' t say how we
considered that . He ' s e very improper and unusual man . "
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Orear than asked about a water district . He has a purchase agreement on e
three acre lot on the south of Sun Path which he would like to connect to a
water district . This would also include the party on the north who would
like to be in such a district . Banfield would not want to be in the water
district as he has a good well and good water. In this red outline [ on a
diagram he showed ] is what we would like to be a water district . It is
adjacent to Leather' s water district and it would be most economical to
hook into the main at the road . it would cost $ 6 , 000 or $ 7 , 000 per owner.
" All of these people would be willing to hook into this . "
Karnrnen noted that Orear had to apply to the Town Board for a water
district . Orear said he first wanted to consult with the Planing Board .
Hirvonen noted that she ,was unclear as to the status of these new loth .
She asked if he was in fact , aproaching us for e subdivision ?
Orear answered yes . This would be a major subdivision . The Health
Department says they will let me build as many lots as I want . He has met
with john Anderson . Miller voiced concern about so many small water
districts and said that we have nothing to do with the water which is
. handled by the Town .
Orear agreed that he would have to go to the Town Board concerning water.
He asked about his easement . " Is there any reason why these two Town
roads should be connected at this point ?' " Kammen noted that for safety ,
for school bus access, , for garbage and for emergency equiprrierit , the
coririectiori made very good sense . Hirvonen rioted that acc: ordirig to our
regulations , we cannot or should riot approve any subdivision that has a
dead - end road over 600 feet . We are trying to circumvent that and still
let people use the beaufitul lands that are available to them in their area .
We think that ' s a very workable way to do it , to provide a north - south
access road .
Orear said that at this time Beischer and Banfield refused to sell their
lands . "The only ,bray i can see makirig that conenction would be for the
Town to invoke Eminent Domain , at rio cost to them , because I could
provide an escrow account set aside for that purpose . "
Hirvonen answered , that she hoped that Orear could get together with his
neigfhborhood , so the Town wouldn ' t be placed in that type of position . I
iwould hope that you would be trying to do that . " Orear commented that he
had spent two month _ negotiating . Beisc: her did not want the added
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traffic . If the easement is insisted upon " I would just have to give up on
this development . " He noted that he could 'wit , but that he had already
sold land to Dykman and Thomas , and that they cannot sit and wait another
ten years .
Horns remarked that those two lots [Thomas and Dykrnan ] were sold
without a subdivision permit from the Planning Board . Orear said he had
Planning Board approval . Horna said that this had been based on erroneous
information provided by Orear and was conditional on T . Miller ' s
assessment of the purposed road . Orear said he did not think he provided
erroneous information . Home noted that we had approved sale subject to
Miller' s aproval , based on Lirear' s statements . Hirvonen rioted that the
Planning Board ' s decision was contingent upon Miller and it was the Town
Board that made the decision concerning the road .
Miller noted that it was late and that she recommended that the Planning
Board and the Town Board have a meeting to discuss a number of issues ,
including , roads; , water districts, , agricultural districts . This suggestion
was seconded by Hirvonen and approved unanimously by the Board .
• Beckwith moved we adjourn at 1 1 : pm .
These minutes were condensed from a transcription of the meeting made
by JoAnn 'vliet , Court Reporter. The entire transcript is on file in the
Planning Board office , dated December 14, 1967 .
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