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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1981-07-13 TOWN OF LANSING PLANNING BOARD F� . eats July 13 , 1981 411 ' �` '-Times 7 : 30 P . M . ° . Present": Chairman V . Miller , R . Briggs , L . Hirvomen , T . Kick , H . Ley , L . Montague r'. ' , :' ):: Ahsseffitt; S . Cleveland , D . Hardie „ , . Gusts : N: .' Stanton., Ordinance Officer , T . Niederkera , Planning Consultan ° Iv - Minutes • of previous meetings ' .June 8 , 1981 - ` - r -MOTION..: T . Kick moved to approve the minutes . H . Ley seconded , a carried unanim©usly . t June ' 29 , 1981 -. V . Miller suggested that all copies of these minutes be labeled " Unofficial Meeting , resume only . " MOTION : T . Kick moved to accept the minutes as so noted . L . Hirvo.nen seconded , carried unanimously . , ili..., :• II ... Officers ' Reports . T . Kick - Treasurer - Ne "' report at this 4 time . V . Miller suggested that work be started on the budget for the August 17th meeting . 4 I. 33r , . h . . Hiry ©nen Secretary - L . Hirvonen presented a letter from the , County Health Department , dated April 30 , 1981 . She ... aeted that ' - they had done a very comprehensive review of the property near 4 Milliken Station including the Ruzicka property . Two of the permanenttrailers have been moved but a new one , a travel ,: trailer has been moved in . This is the property between V . . Giordano ' s home and Carl Yengo ' s place . Mr . Giordano had come to the Board saying that Mr . Ruzicka was planning on tearing down a cottage and putting two trailers in its place . This was about one year age . The Health Department said that he can put , , in two travel trailers but they cannot exceed three bedrooms total . They also must have 2 , 500 sq . ft . parking space per . trailer . The Health Department has to go down and check this area , " Lake Ridge Point " , during the season , testing the water c ' , end septic systems . Campsites and temporary residences do not have to be moved at the end of the season . Mr . Ruzicka does have additional land that he leases to others , possibly for ' trailers . Vo Miller - Chairman - V . Miller talked with Mr . Williamson about. . the Finkledey situation and the ordinances . ' „, She also talked with L . Sharps -teen and L . Montague about this . ( More to follow under Old Business . ) - : ' ! III_ Privilege of Floor - No one present . . ' IV . Special Committees L . Montague - Subdivisions - L . Montague has not checked with Mr . and Mrs . Woods at this time . The Fiddlers Green Subdivision. A , ( Finkledey ) will be covered under Old Business . = - T . Kick - Sewer and Water - Mr . Kick informed the Board that there - was a meeting on Friday , July 10 , 1981 . . The Village wants to . assess Morse Chain for the full value of their plant . Con- struction could be impaired . The Town is coming to the rescue . There seems to be a dual problem . The water tower closest is in the - Town-. but owned by the Water Authority . They are thinking of taking the water from the tower down Cherry Road into the Mors ' . Chain plant but there is a pressure problem . To get Federal aid , l - 1 -)u 1 F ;..1 Y T 4 14 1. / Y.. p• - . :. v.. . . ) 5 : Special Committees - continued . 4r . - $ 400 , 000 . total , $ 340 , 000 . to the Town and $ 60 , 000 . to the Villag . the water must run along Warren Road to the plant . From the ,; tower on Triphammer Road to Cherry Road up Warren Road to the . ,it Morse Chain - plant is another route and in so doing it would hit ge ' the Village , This is a take it or leave it deal and if not > . taken soon the money will go to Syracuse . The tower near the ' airport is under-pressurized . They are trying to build an Indus - ' v . trial ark there . A . great deal of P pressure is being placed ©n : the Village as it is felt that they are not providing enough fire 4 protection . They might take the Village to court . The second district ties in with the proposed Lucente ' project and the third one would be coming down Hillcrest , Bean Hill Lane , Stormy View and Grand View : Think of it as one district and now we are back to the first proposal which totaled $ 1 , 504000 . of which there will be a 3400 , 000 . grant . That seems to be the only reasonable L one in. price . They will go back to Morse Chain on July 17 , 1981 . ' The tower on Bean Hill and the one at the airport are the highest „; . -- points in Lansing . .. V . .. ' . Old Business ' I ' Board of Zoning Appeals - N . Stanton remarked that he had left a note with John Barney requesting Barney re q g a joint meeting with the BZA ` s " '' Y . . ": - I ' and the Planning Board . V . Miller will check with S . Cleveland ' en the proposed meeting . . Lucente Apartment Complex - N . Stanton wanted to knew what the. Planning Board ' s position was on increasing the density around - the Lucente proposal . . V . Miller said -that no decision had been ; ; made . T . Kick tho ht that Mr . Lucente had come in only t © bring us up to date en his proposal . . Finkledey - Fiddlers Green Subdivision. - . . V . Miller 76I reread the subdivision rules and regulations and . discovered that areliminar P y plaf :. was not to be . filed in the County Clerk ' s office , only the final plat was to be filed . Someone fileda preliminary plat it would seem . This was our first major subdivision . We should have turned . it over to . Mr . Williamson for . clarification . There is Murch to be done on even the 10% approval that has been given . I ' d like to a propose for your consideration that we made a mistakeand withdraw the . preliminary plat from the court house . Go back to the 10% .which: we. - are considering for final "_ approval . Within that we have the legal problem to find out whether he did sell one -half a lot to Mr . Haleteth . I talked with Mr . M' - Williamson and he feels that there is a real problem and we must find out how many lots have been sold , to whom and how much money has been passed . We can sue Finkledey knowing full well that there is nothing he can do and the proje t; would be closed down . We can say ' that he has violated , procedures and legally he can be stopped until in full compliance . I sug- gested to Lorne ( Montague ) to get a list of the lots sold , their nuffibers and to whom sold and talk to the buyers . . Mr . Williamson said that a scorching letter should be sent , :. to the banks for having approved . something ' obviously incorrect . I feel that we should report to the Town Board tomorrow night . ( 7 / 14 /81 ) . Nothing could have been done from the unofficial - meeting of two weeks ago ( 6 / 29 / 81 ) . I wanted Lorne tMontague ) to be here. . L . Hirvonen - I ' d like to suggest two things : # 1 - We write. clown in sequence the list of things that have happened with. Vh 6 M1r.izi)a ax I 2 y . F — ` L .a n iold . Business continued . t ; r. Mr . Finkledey in the form of a letter or a memo and submit it r . to the Town Board , the Town Attorney , residents of Fiddlers ' . Green, T . Niederkorn and N . Stanton . Take this from the official minutes .. We would like to hear their comments . # 2 - Since Mr . Finkledey has violated the subdivision rules and regulations , '; ( - 1' - - - in ' the fact that he divided the lot and sold itas two separate lots we do have grounds to declare his subdivision null and void . Y Upon doing that we should withdraw the preliminary plat from the - Ceurt: House • and reconsider the 10% we are now working with .. " , T. . Kick - I think we should keep our eyes and our hearts open to hrpeople already there . The last house is past the 10% . ' ` l What about him? L . Hirvonen - We are only considering this 10% because of the speci - fications . V.. Miller - Lloyd ( Sharpsteen ) has worked long and hard with him . . Finkledey should have worked properly from the first and he could have saved himself a great sum of money . He now has no ' :_ more money to work with . I also know that Lorne ( Montague ) is tired of working with him' as he doesn ' t come through with his romisea . . Possiblythe - - p peole there know that we are working with him on this problem and they may have to have it as a pri- vate road . ` R , Briggs - I ' m not so sure that would upset them . 'J L . Hirvonen - I agree . F N . Stanton - What ` effect would it have on. Finkledey if you with-. drew the subdivision , from the Court House ? L. Montague - Back to Square one . He cannot sell lots . The . pre - liminary plat should have come to the attorney ' s attention . We were wrong to extern him each time . He can ' t get any credit to ' finish up . Let ' s withdraw the plat and give him a letter to s start over . : Y1:± - 1.. R . ;; ' Briggs - Banks don ' t get involved lending money :on land . Possibly it was a cash deal . V : - Miller - Tom ( Niederkorn ) can we give final approval asfar as 1 ' ' ' , the . design is concerned , the Town will not accept the road , • .;' , . possibly a private road ? n T .:; Niederknrn - The Town would then not have to maintain the road. V , ' Miller _ - We do have private roads in the Town now , it is . possible . . 1.1 . Hirvonen - With a . major subdivision. you do need a pubes road , t.) in a minor subdivision , not necessary . l': . 11.: ' Ley Why did the people in the Court House accept the ' ' map if it ,: was filed_ as a preliminar y plat !' Where they under the ': impression it was the final plat ? V . Miller - - It was signed , they wouldn ' t file the letter with the map but it was recorded under a cross reference . - The Ley - The letter said specifically it was a preliminary plat . I ' m trying to resolve what seems to be a . very simple error . .: T . YNiederkorn - I ' d say write him a letter with a copy to the County Clerk , tell him you understand that the two lots have been sold . L . . Hirvonen - Gary Evans. ( Planning Department - County ) suggested . . combining the lots , erosion problem in area , very stee . . T , .: Kick. - There was something about the number of lots p 9 . . V . Miller - He wantedtheapproval for twelve lots , . could not go . over that number . We said split one large one and combine tie - . two smaller ones . R . : Briggs - The County Planning. Department recommended that we allow - . him to do it . I assume that they had done a study and . this was ' the best way to go . L . Montague - He sent us a letter in July of last year ( 1980 ) re - questing permission to sell lots 12 and 13 separately . We appar- -3 - I OldtBusiness - continued . ently gave him permission . This was dated after it was filed . `` In our minutes of February 25 , 1980 , Harry Missirian was here. and he said , " He has already sold lots and is building - this approval is all very artifibial . You should have already approved the final plat before a bulldozer touched the ground . Final Plat maps should be given to the Town Engineer to use for y : inspecting progress of the developer . " R 'Briggs - How can he make the final adjustments after the final plat is filed ? . '' ' ' ' L Montague - ` in those same minutes Dave ( Hardie ) says , " I have signed the Preliminary Plat maps and they are on file . " , Linda ( Hirvonen ) questions ; " . . . if the new maps were in accordance with Final Plat requirements . " V Miller What to do now ? '` .T; . . -Niederkorn - Write that letter telling him he is in violation. of preliminary approval , therefore you are turning it over to , . the Town Attorney and are considering suit . A copy should go . . . to the County Clerk . Lo = Montague What about . issirian ' s quote ? I think that ' s where we ran into a problem . Dave ( Hardie ) signed it and it was filed . : r V Miller - I ' ll check on the map and ask about the letter , also ' the number of the lots sold . MOTION. : R . Briggs made a motion: that a letter be sent to Mr . Wil- liamson. , Town Attorney to see how we should proceed from this oint ..: L . Montague seconded , carried unanimously . MOTION:: R . Briggs made a motionthat we keep T . Niederkorn on a "' ` F - retainer , basis for professional help as needed . L . Hirvonen seconded , carried manmously . At this point N . Stanton left the meeting . v._ ` ` VII . New and continued business : Policy Review - T . Niederkorn passed out copies of the Development ' - Policy Revision dated July 13 , 1981 to each member of the Board . '. ' ie then read through it and with the members present made . several ` changes . They were : Page 1 . `2 . Development Intensity Large rural sections it the northern, part of Lansing are recognized as areas where, limited , ( changed to little ) change and ( added spot ) development is antici ated p , Planning Pag®: 2 . 4 . Utilities a . Water and sewer facilities are basic ' ( deleted ) prerequisites for sustained Page 3 . #6-b .. T . Niderkorn felt that the Planning Board might consider getting a review of the road from L . Sharpsteen . T . Niderkorn said that he rewrote the review on the basis of pre - vioius discussions and comments . He stressed the need for using , the word " will " not " should " when the Board makes its recommenda- tions to the . Town Board . '' The question of noise control was discussed , particularly noise from airplanes , taking . off , landing and small planes practising . '; T . Niederkorn felt that we did not have anything . on that , R . ` Briggs asked if there was a state standard . T INiderkorg replied that there are all kinds of rules , noise must be measured and it was complicated to enforce . He will look this up . • L : Montague brought up the problems of windmills , their inter ` 'ference with televisions , radios , etc . T . Niederkorn said it was not generally permitted but possibly in industrial areas . He ' said that the question this Board must address is how much noise ' * 'should be allowed . -4 - New and continued business - continued . . Alternative Land Use Map - T . Niderkorn indicated where multiple family housing could go in . One area would be between Bush Lane and Cherry Road . The small airplanes and their noise could colo : the thinking on that . Multiple housing could be apartments , town houses , four to six units per acre . He also showed areas he , felt were suitable for medium density , low density and neighborhood commercial . h . Hirvonen = What about future growth? T Niderkorn - I have intended it for convenience neighborhood commercial and handle it in zoning by special permit . L . Hirvonen Then we are not going to encourage commercial growth? jt T . Niederkorn - Not really . - H . Ley It will naturally come in where there is development . Also shown on this map were ; industrial , natural or recreational and agricultural areas . I� . Hirvonen We don ' t have any guicb lines for the developer for the different areas ,. We need flexibility but we do need guide lines . " T . hiederkorn. - T will be writing them out in some detail . Your latitude and bonuses to developers will be written out . Each area will be described in the general plan and the zoning ordinances will be , clearer . Hirvonen - Variances can .bring problems when the people read the ordinances to us . Their attitudes prevent our flexibility T . Niederkorn. - You make it - you can modify it . T . Kick - They should be black and white . Not one thin& for one person. and something else for the others . L , Hirvonen - Are you considering the lakeshore areas ? T . . , Niederkorn. - Yes . Do you want density there ? Larger lots can make an economic input . Types of dwellings ? How to dis - pose of sewage ? These things must be addressed . R . Bri >ge - We have - to . be practical when it comes to taxes . Ther mightbe vacant land left if the lots are too large . H . Ley _ - Accessibility counts for a lot too . T , Niederkorn. - Maybe we should pick up the areas that are not developed , the really nice ones and have a different approach I . to those areas versus the ones that are already developed . High density areas and low density areas along the lake . . . . . " ' T -.. Kick Wouldn ' t we in effect be assigning a value to the land ? T . N derkorn. e We do that with every step. we take . High density land is more valuable possibly . Any governmental decision has an economic impact. .. T . Niederkorn will be at the next meeting . Meeting - adjourned : 10 : 15 P . M . Next Meeting : August 17 , 1981 cem . a ;