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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1981-06-08 �ry cytl' I tv . 5,0 L ' Tc�j+j�\ ' y ' R ' TOWN Ur' LANSING PLANNING BOARD 7�/ 3 /fr/ DD te. : June 8 , 1981 . Time : 7 : 30 P . M . ' ® Present : Chairman V . Miller , R . Briggs , L . Hirvonen , P . Kick , H . Ley , L . Montague , Absent S . Cleveland , D . Hardie F _ `' •-;'Guest T . Niederkorn , Planning Consultant 1 I . I4.inutes of previous meeting; : May 11 , 1981 - :MOTION : R . Briggs moved to approve the minutes . T . Kick seconded , , harried unanimously . Iris , . Offic:ers. ' Reports ' t :L . Hirvonen Corresponding Secretary - Each member of the board present affirmed that they had received a copy of the letter. from Florita Mortlock representing the Franklin-Maple Drive f group . V . Miller agreed with R . Briggs that we had made a .F r; committment to them and that they will receive a letter from the board in response to theirs . ` T . Kick - Treasurer - no report at this time . e ." V . Miller - Chairman - rio report at this time . III . Special Committees ' L . Montague - Subdivisioos - L . Montacue passed out copies to the members of the board of a letter he received from Lloyd Sharp- steen . He and Mr . Sharpsteen had a meeting with Arno Finkledey ' re. the Fiddlers Green Subdivision on June 4 , 1981 . Mr . Finkledeycame; ;, up . with a loophole in his preliminary plat . L . Montague . - read . 'Article IV , Section B of Major Subdivisions : i , 000011 the - ' sinal plat shall conform substantially to the preliminary ,plat. approved by the Planning Board . If the subdivider so desires , the final plat may consist of only that portion of the prelim- . - plat which is to be developed and recorded at that time , providing that such portions contain at least 10% of the lots in the subdivision and conforms to all of the rules and regulations . " ` Finkledey has the option to develop at least 10% of what he had started . .with . This six months extension has been passed three times sofar . L . Montague stopped to check the . subdivision and . %< . - noted that Mr . Finkledey is - making; great strides to conform with Mr . Sharpsteen ' s recommendations . He has replaced one culvert v. t,,, ,,, . ,,.... „ , ,. , and installed another new one . He has added up to 1/ 1.0 of a mile of ten inches of crusher run gravel and plans to add four inches of gravel on top . It is not complete to the main road . Rather then let this project fall , L . Montague recommends that the board accept what he is doing . Mr . Finkledey wants to come tonight to speak and was told he would be given fifteen AA minutes to present his case . L . Hirvonen - Does he have 10% of his lots developed ? L . Montague - Well , it doesn ' t specifically say that . - He has to conform to all of the requirements and he has done that with one and one -half , lots laid out . The crest of the hill is not acceptable to Mr . Sharpsteen .. It ' s approximately 3 /10 of a mile from the highway . What he has done is * develop the first quarter of a mile on his property for a start . . I think he has good intentions . The Board , I told him , is tired of granting him extensions and we feel he must complete what he has started : - 1 - Special Committees - continued . 5 ' '' - : :. and work from there on . My understanding from Mr . Sharpsteen is that once he is up to the " T " he nas five years to complete 110 the road . _ V . : Miller - That must have to do with the Town roads which we ,' MY. not have . One thing , I think it is to be made clear that these lots for sale are not on a public road . ' , I, . Montague If we can get this thing cleared up to the crest ' } ;hof that ' hill , he can sell four lots , that is better then 10% . YI One log house is already built , two other lots have been sold z A ` , 'in. that section . H . . Ley: - Having Sharpsteen involved is significant . - V . . INliller - Can we say that this is a preliminary and that he cannot sell lots from that point on without the road being , a- finished first ? L . . Montague - By the letter of the law , right . T . Niederkorn All you have given him is final approval for " what he has . ' ` '7A 1/ Miller. - You all heard Lorne ' s report and his recommendation r ;_for final anproVal for, ;he 10 � providing that hr . Sharpsteen 5 1 aAaraaaaapprovesm the road . Now what about the future ? I think that the -:, the has to do with their roads and not our sub ' Y l divisions . We will have to i .iake our own decision on this . T:. Niederkorn - Does he have preliminary approval for all of it ? V . Miller - Yes . The preliminary approval ran out and we have ;giv,en him three extensions . Now we say no more . Do we start over again as a new subdivision or give nim an extension on the rotler preliminary? T . Niederkorn - Give him another extension for the remainder : of the : subdivision . ® f L . . Hirvonen - Do we set up some guide lines for the rest of it ? When he needs to have another section completed ? : T . Niederkorn - Pretty hard to do that , depends on the economy . . : All you can do is withdraw his preliminary approval , that does . not gain" a thing . H .. Ley - He is committed to this project , he ' s building ' a . home . for himself there . I don ' t think he ' ll walk away from it . L . Montague - He started the project before getting approval . '� a�, L . Hirvonen - He could file bankruptcy and that would be a crime V , Miller - Someone else would buy it . ` a - R . Briggs - Are we recommencing that Sharpsteen accept the road ? ,, V . : Miller - No . We are telling Mr . i:F inkledey that we are giving him final approval for 10% of the subdivision and that he may" 'file with . the county so that he can sell lots providing =that Mr . Sharpsteen giveshis final approval for the road . . L . Monta e - The only thing that I don ' t quite understand is , is this 10°j part of the final plat ? T . Niederkorn - Yes . L . Montague - We would need a public hearing then . T . Niederkorn - Can you waive it ? L . Hirvonen - It may waive the second public hearing required by this section . " When the Planning Board determines that the final plat is in substantial agreement with the above , any conditions inposed thereon it may waive the second public hearing required by this section . " L . Montague - We can approve 10% but what about the rest of it ? ,. What about a time limit ? . TT . Niederkorn - He has to file in 90 days , I believe . ±: V . Miller - We will dive him an extension . - ' L . Montague - In essence then we are saying that we can give - 2 - - SpecialCommittees - continued . him an arbitrary time to finish . V . Miller - Six months is the longest we can sive , . T . Niederkorn - You can modify that . L . Montague - If we say that as of July 1 , 1981 , 10% does conform • to Mr . Sharpsteen ' s requirements , we will approve it , we can sign it and then a six months extension ±' or the preliminary " : to work toward the final . - V .. Miller - Or we can wait and ask him what he can do on that . L . . Hirvonen - Did you go to Section G ? " Prior to making a ' Hy ' resolution of approval or conditional approval Of a Final Plat the Planning Board may permit such plat to be subdivided ;: into two or more sections provided that any such section shall containat least ten percent of the total number of lots in the : : plat .. On any such section so permitted the Planning Board may impose conditions as it deems necessary to assure the orderly development of the remainder of the plat . " L . Montague - Yes , he can actually ask for 10% more . L . Hirvonen - This is more orderly . MOTION. : L . . Montague moved that we accept a conditional . approval of Arno Fihkledey ' s . 10% request on condition that he follows Lloyd Sharpsteen ' s requirements and this is subject to his coming in before one hundred eight days elapse . R . Briggs seconded , carried unanimously . - L . Montague will send a letter to Mr . Finkledey with regard to : the Board ' s decisiod and also a copy to L . Sharpsteen . , 411 ` = V . Miller - If Lloyd ( Sharpsteen ) accepts the road he will take it to the Town Board . Mr . Finkledey came to the meeting but was informed of the Board 's decision by L . Montague and did not meet with the group . T . Kick - Sewer and Water - No report at this time . IV . Standing Committees R. Briggs - Professional . V . Miller - Is it possible when reviewing all of these ordin- ances and you have a public hearing , to rewrite them as we want them , for the Town Board to announce that there will be . new ordinances and that they will eliminate all of these amendments ? T . Niederkorn. - That ' s a good idea . I don ' t know if they will have to publish everything as that can be a problem . V . Miller - I ' ll call Bob Williamson and ask him about that . L . Hirvonen - We didn ' t have to publish when we were revising - the subdivision ordinances . T . Niederkorn - That really doesn ' t have any force of law . L . Hirvonen - We ' didn ' t publish when we did the trailer park • ordinance . We did check in on it , on subdivision . . T . Niederkorn - If you can put it all together and rewrite . the whole thing , get rid of amendments , that would make it nice to • start of f with . V . Miller - I think they would like it because that is what is bothering everybody , trying to get down through these , there are so many loop holes . - 3 - k lye , - ` Standing Committees - continued . Mr . Niederkorn then put his maps on the board for all to view while he explained his thinking about the -future development of Lansing . He felt that the best land always seemed to be preempted by something else or for something else . He wanted to stress potential and suitability of the land . Will there be a growth def : and ? How does one area compare to another for . desirable living? Is it suitable physically for development , the soil , the accessibility , the depth of bedrock , sewers , water table ? He stressed finding something we can be com- fortable with . He pointed out an area from the center line of the runway , 2 , 000 feet on either side , the crest of the hill , a watershed , drainage to the north and the south of tne hill . Very impor tant when talking about development . He said that we would need a sewer pump to bring it up to a point and it would flow by gravity down to the system or down to Triphammer . All in the north of these lines would have to be pumped and , there would be a future need for sewers . He was certain that sewage would have to , be pumped on the north side of Hillcrest , north of the first group of apartments . The area where Lucente wants to go in is a bad area for septic systems . Piore develop- ment ` would make it terrible . He designated three types of development ; one - best suited , two well suited and three - least suited . Maybe a fourth - it ' s okay but not good , not bad . . One " best " area is from the Village line , Lush Lane , north , cuts off a piece of the hazard zone , up Triphammer Road past the Horvath development , good elevation , sewer line could go in there . Intensive development could go in there . L . Hirvonen - Why did you show this only slightly west of s . Triphammer ? T . . Niederkorn - Each house would have to pump up to the sewer , not good drainage . Very shallow to bedrock . V . : Miller - Cherry Road begins bedrock , apparently coming down the . hill from Bush Lane it gets worse . They needed a fair amount of blasting , will have to rebuild the road . Over the hill toward the airport , not much rock until about 12 or 13 feet T . Eiederkorn - This makes it difficult when putting; : in sewers , also adds to the cost . V . Miller - There are about forty to sixty acres not in the hazard zone . The Village is only about three hundredfeet on the north side of Bush Lane and four hundred feet on Triphammer . That whole area south and west of the water tank is in the Town . Heavy clay , needs sewers . T . Niederkorn - ; ewers are already there . The area west of them is downhill , could be bumped. up . T . Kick - What about Waterwagon? T . Niederkorn - hot severed . Intensive development will need sewers farther out Triphammer . Then it becomes logical for the rest to be fairly high density to support the sewers . But then you run into the hazard zone from the airport . L . , Hirvonen - There are two studies being made for the possibiii of having water in Lansing . We ; gust justify the cost and per- haps make recommendations from our board for high development to justify the cost of it . T . Niederkorn - , That ' s what I hoped to be able to do there . Doe ; it make sense to have utilities there even if the cost is justified ? V . Miller - How lar down from Cherry Road on the high point of - 4 - is . . . . • Standing Committees - continued . it , by the woods , how close is the water tower to the hazard 3 EU zone ? V . Miller - It ' s such a beautiful area for high density , help pay for sewers and water to go out to the other areas . The view has been spoiled by the water tower being there . Forty acres is available at any time if there were sewers and water. ,k T . Kick Part of that area , closer to the Village is all industrial . T . Niederkorn - That ' s the only area that I could convince myself would be suited for development . Low density does not require sewers . V . Miller - Going back - the area you are talking about south . of Cherry Road , north of Bush Lane , east of Triphammer , the Village is not taking the sewers up Triphammer . They cut off the whole corner there and brought it up through Brookway up to Bush Lane . The sewer would best be suited straight north off of Bush Lane . They carne up live hundred feet from Trip - hammer , did not come up to Bush Lane . T . nick - The Town will have to pay for sewers up Triphammer . V . Miller - If that area was developed with high density , rr legally the Village would have to let the developer hook up to their sewers , he only has three hundred feet to ' go . T . Kick - That ' s what they ' re trying to curb . V . Miller - Yes , but they can ' t . The Town of Lansing had to sign all sorts of things for the Village of Cayuga Heights to get a grant to build . It would service development in the Town of Lansing . Cayuga Heights found a loop hoole , paid their extra half . I don ' t understand how the Town let it gets . away . T . Niederkorn . - Does the Village have to approve an extension . of the sewer system? V . Miller - Yes . There was an aLreernent before they got their grant with the Town and they cannot stop it . T . Niederkorn - I went into another area well suited for development , again in the hazard zone , but not anymore hazardous then Bean Hill . The least suited area is by the airport , ' terrible drainage . I did not exclude Lucente . L . Hirvonen - How far back does he go ? V . Miller - To the Town of Dryden . R . Briggs - He wants to start with forty acres go up., to the woods for a recreation area . He was a little vague on that , V . Miller - It ' s pretty wet back there . I think we need that water for the whole area . Should we not approve that for development ? T . Niederkorn - Not back up there . Should not allow it . Now over the hill , towards the lake , well suited for certain . types of homes but not for a lot of development . Perhaps something like Finkledey ' s , large lots , makes it expensive , a good way to think for that area . R . Briggs - What about the property south of the quarry ? L . Montague - That ' s all O ' Rears . R . Brits - West of East Shore Circle ? T . Niederkorn. - I don ' t ;think we should encourase a lot of development there . - H . Ley - How big are O ' Rears lots ? V . Miller - Two or three acres . T . Niederkorn Maybe we need to label one section , ' ! not suited for development . " Must describe this more . - 5 - s • } s Standing Committees - con 't, inued . V . miller - How do you call one suited for only very large lots ? • Park like areas ? ® T . Niederkorn - We ' ll have to define that . V . Miller - It would be nice to leave some of the area open , ' not so densely settled . Briggs - All lake shore should be seperate . When the , „ , ,, ," . ... , ., - ,, : y„ - , . prices go up , the lot sizes go down . Niederkorn . - What is the likelihood of the town developing "r and what kind of pressures are they going to experience because - of that ? „ R . Bri ;�; s - . Sounds hike you are leading up to a high density development . '` T . ' Niederkorn Yesyou are right . We need a logical place r to start Ludlowville •is not sited for development , terrible : sewage problems . T . Kick - 1 have a letter from the Health Board on that . R . Briggs - Things are beginning to happen in Ludlowville , the main drag is getting fixed up , it ' s in the process of looking good . People are buying homes there and working on them: . V . : hiller Back in ' 71 didn ' t we Tom ( Niederkorn ) talk about the possibility of a small P y sewer plant down in. Myers where the ' m sewers could follow from Ludlowville , Sperry Lane all of Lakeview , South Lansing ? There could be a lot of development - inthere . Not , such a horrible expense taking it the long . - distances : . . , Niederkorn - Yes . It will be necessary to think a`bout that . \ , J .K . V . Miller - Should we make a recommendation to the Town Board ? T . Niederkorn - It doesn ' t look to me that there will be much ® ' t ; ' „ growth for the next twenty years . R . Briggs - If - you put a water district in there , it will ��row ast , it will blossom . Not enough water there nowaiid what ) you do have is often suipher . 14 T . Niederkorn - Given that , it ' s not verya -. for development . good area ,cited R . - Briggs - But if you put one in there , it would grow . We ` 7 _ already have one in Myers , what about the possibility of an extra pump ? " ' T . kick — Tom Miller said no . Absolutely not . tie built those ' Y ' ' ' '" I ) . w • - pumps and he knows them . H , ° Zey - Have they talked about building a plant in Myers too ?: " j ' ' T . Kick There is no federal help for water butt ��ere is : for t sewers . . Within . the last six months we have not . been 'strut off .,- The preliminary study . is further along , paid for by state ' and federal . T . Niederkorn - What about the area south of ',daterwagon '? Should . . it -develop ? - . H . Ley Depends on what Butler wants to do , it ' s his land . V . Miller - That area is split up by a number of people , Butler . : as thebiggest by far , but then there is John Hicks , Clifford ' ' Lane has a large area along the lake . There is only three. ' H-* i hundred feet on either side of the road in the Village , rest is 2 r ; , in the Town . T I'liederkorn. - That ' s the problem working with corridors . T AIIhave no objections to developing the land in phases . The ii : phase is to stress modestly , to downplay , ' i some kind of a sewage disposal . p y second is to anticipate V . Miller - . 'There is an ag district there , // 7 . very pretty land, r ; f, should leave that as is . . T . Niederkorn - `There is no . pressure to develop in t "meredi y y �1F : 'T } - 6 - AY .tet " 1 { 4 Standing Committees - continued . • , ' L . Hirvonen - NIy quos 4ion is , ti ;here do we want to see development take place ? Several thins to consider , land t 1 Y e. itself how it exists now , how is the population spreading ? lread multi le housin ofd' War/ t t A Y p tiT' lich hucente put in . H . Le - Development de ponds on the desire o ' the person who owns the land , 1 ,ucente wants development , that ' s his business . { 1 Fisher , Butler , at his time cio not want it . T',. Kick - 7 feel , bein involved with the sewer and .grater , trier is a heck of a lot of money involved , and .Lt s only, going to cost more . t=Te will need it sooner or later . Ludlowville needs it now . Dyers - not problem . "TD ale on :jean bill worry abou their wells - loin dry . The loner the wait , the Iii her the price tai . It won ' t come from the Lovernlrent , I ' m quite sure that . This does for ; ewers too • e meed the support from the high density areas . 1 T N • ederkorn - The Health Department win allow cert_ in a ,raunt of density with sewers and a difererit amount without sewers . ci T . . Kick - How is hucente going to put sewers in? 1 T . ' hiederkorn He can justii'y it with his r.� roject and the present homeowners ,: there to pay for it . T .',. Kick they want to ? V.. , Miller Does it really hurt them that much ii' he, makes it K 'pore , dense ? If they get sewers and water ? ; T T . N • ederkorn, - Can tour say not to uo it , could be an area for high density . Two , employers , 1' o �.arthousarrd people involved . ." Brig - Our job is to help the Tozrn plan for potential : ` r T . Kick How much : vacant land is there ? , he - Two hundred acres . ® ` V . Tiller. - I ' d say one hundred sixty , could take a lot of 9 : Y development . The Bush Estate has about forty to fifty acres . They would like to sell but not l or low der. ,; ity or medium r residential . They have no sewers or water . fort r y acres takes in ' a tremendous amount of high density . L . IIi rvoneri - :die have to consider not only single but multiple '° r ho.usin Should we recommend the possi ility of , cluster Nous - ing , town houses ? V . Biller The County is doing a studyon sum I'll oge, sting a new z typerof housing , common walls , large areas of o ren space , ` , imilar to town houses , People cauld once again afi' ord . : to burr their own home . Apartment situation • n Ithaca is hoz�rible:. YG $ , That ' s why Lucente wants to . build , to rill that need . . W ( { aY ] 3 1 T . 1tTiederkorn I can see future development there , makes sense . The airport, area makes it difficult for developing . Hillcrest k will increase in traffic . L . Hirvonen - Didn ' t they recently take a traffic count on • Triphammer? L . • I�`iontat=,ue I saw a County hi hway truck there . T . ' iuiederkorn - Up around Lakev0 iew , best suited for development if all utilities were in , Have a lotoin for it . T . Kick - Are ou chars ins r • Y. g your min �:� Uout the, areas be of their particular water sitL?ation? Chante from best to fair ` ` ' '` because 'of lack of water ? T . : I�tiederkorn - . Iv" o , , but sewers arid water do mean` a lot , r . {T :. T . Kiek - The Horvath area , they have sulpher nater . h . Hirvonen ` Lt ' s all over Lansing . T . nick - I' m , just questioning ii' water should alone determine - , tr L ` . I'�Ionta ue - - Water is one of the trrost' important ' considerations . • T . Kick - If you eventually Lrin water in , co to high d �� rsity so . they can' pay for it • ;should i t be the land or the water • determining; . this ? - - � - ,; Standing Committees - continued . L . Hirvonen - That ' s the crux of our whole discussion . In one part of our discussion we are saying that this looks like a ® likely place for development to hapen and the other part we are putting everything on water and sewers . One is for logical planning and development and the other for the develop= rent in the event that water and sewers ever come in . But we are not the water commission . We can ' t say it all rests on - water . ' V . Miller Way back in the 50 ' s when they did the first study , 2 - -of Tompkins County , Lansing was said to be the least likely r, ' L i; to % develo �, p , and they were proved wrong . ( Lansing low has the - x highest population of all the towns in this area . The new growth is all going into Lansing . leo one seems to know why . Should we consider this ? Do people like the view or what ? .::,,,-. . . .. 1-1 . ' • , . .. II . ' Ley The accessibility to the University . ", ' wt v T. . - Niederkorn - If the Octopus problem is ever solved , you - -w ' 11 see alot or development in the west end , that will change . V . Miller - Perhaps we should encourage high density in . the , area you talked about to get sewers and water there , . high density would pay for it . ` `" T . Kick - Energy costs will • gy push things . T : Niederkorn. - Travel time can mean a lot also . ' ' • V Miller - Warren Road could become a three or four lane ' � ; road . . , That would help with the traffic . ' ' . • R . Briggs - What do you want from us Tom ( Niederkorn ) ? 1:-"' ' ''' ' y ' r ' _� T . Yiederkorn I need toLI, o over this again . We need enough substance so that zoning can be defended . Must decide on what ' is best suited for development , the potential areas for r ..-:.r- ' ' . Ht %Pr . it . See •how it actually relates to the land use map, . . North part - of the Town , whatto do with that ? Some pockets of - development up there . Should they be controlled ? Concentrate on area south of Peruville Road . L . Hirvonen - When we designate lots , will we also designate - lots with or without. sewers ? , T . : Niederkorn - Yes . We should have a planned unit development - approval L . Montague ' Can you . specify the number of bodies per acre ? ' T .' Niederkorn - No . You can only specify the number , of . ; dwelling units . ' Two bedrooms , one study , you could have six in. `one .unit . r . R . Brigs . - Lucente wants to put five hundred units ,. on forty - acres V Miller - I think planned unit development is• ; `a. p good way to go . T . . Niederkorn. - You would need controlled off - street ; :parking , three spaces per unit . Techniques ques to ire used in zoning . V . ' Miller - The next meeting with Tom ( Niederkorn ) will be July 13th . T . Niederkorn - I would welcome a note or a visit from anyone of you before then if you thoughts some thoughts or icicas to pass on Linda Hirvonen gave T . Niederkorn a set of maps. of the flood. ; plains area . V . Miller will check to see if they have been approved by the 'Town . Es . Ley . and D . Hardie will continue to work on the ordinances . tt D . . Hardie and H . Ley - Ordinance Review - no report at this time . They will meet with N . Stanton to check on his ideas . . V . . : Old Business L Montague has riot seen the Woods yet out will try to do so before the next meeting . . J } " � T 1C f. . 1 fi . r -. 1 4 4 Vh . , New Business -' s„ ` Everyone present agreed that 7 : 30 would be the best time for future meetings . 1 (991 V . Miller can be contacted at 257 -6.203 through Mrs . Rupp , „ ii she noes not answer her home telephone number . / 1 '4 , D . Hardie has a new telephone number , please note , 533 7876 . . Meeting Adjourned : . 9 : ) 0 E. M . `' ' Next r`Ieet; in June •29 , 1981 — 7 > 0 P . M . • r •. .. • 0 •. F % k 4tt P. t {. SI Y ,d 1 1 f '. .. . . /r •. g &. * trx . 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