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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1981-05-11 • TOWN OF LANSING PLANNING BOARD - rera 61/cm ' Date : May 11 , 1981 Time : : 7 : 00 P . M . 'Present : Chairman V . Miller , R . Briggs , D . Hardie , L . Hirvonen , H . Ley , L . Montague, i gi c X ;'- .Absent: ' S . Cleveland Guests ;: - R . Lucente , L . Fabbroni I .. Minutes ofprevious meeting April 13 , 1981 - page 4 , "V . Miller - What has he ( T . Niederkorn ) done with the area along the east part of East Shore Circle , south of Waterwaon . Change to " north " oofWaterwagon . Waterwagon? "qrr Page 6. , " R . Briggs - Let ' s table that for now . " delete sentence . MOTION. : T . Kick moved to accept the minutes as . corrected . D . Hardie seconded , carried unanimously . II Officers' Reports '.. ,c. T Kick - Treasurer - presented a bill in the amount of $ 22 . 47 for two pieces . of homesote _ for map boards . MOTION : L . Hirvonen moved that the bill be paid . H . Ley seconded , carried unanimously . , V . Miller suggested that all future bills be signed by T . Kick . He will prepare a quarterly report so that it will be ready for the budget. . L Hirvonen Corresponding Secretary - did not send a letter to Florita Mortlock but will do so tomorrow ( 5 / 12 / 81 ) . . She did send copies of the BLA minutes from Norm Stanton to all board members A copy of Norm Stanton ' s report from the last meeting was given to L . Hirvonen by V . Miller for the record . , V . Miller: - Chairman - her report was covered during the course of the meeting . ~ hII . r Standing Committees Professional - IR . Briggs ' . Tom ' s ( Niederkorn ) report came ; in two " sections . One has to ' do with a tentative time schedule . I also asked him for estimates on cost and the letterto . you ( V .. Miller ) . con `tains this . At the meeting in Tom ' s ( Niederkorn ) office , Tom Kick and I 'were present , we learned we have L $ 70 . 00 left 'from the original $ 1 , 000 . He thought we needed a limited revision on the laws and ordinances only, . The Master Plan and ` - zoning ordinance revisions would require about forty to fifty, hours ofhis time which would come to about $ 1 , 500 additionally . It would require more work to unify it . The Town 'Attorney . or : N. the Planning Board could work on that. . Should request. another ' , $ 1 , 000 .. How many copies of . the manual would we need ? Will. this be a Town cost ? If not , this could - run several hundred . dollars more in the budget .. V . Miller - The budget comes up for review and must be by November .. The money would be available by the . end of the year and we then could pay him . in January . If we run out , we could include it in next year ' s budget . R . Briggs - Two points he brought up were can we count on any assistance from the Town Attorney ? Are we going to get into the expense of a mass printing of the final product ? V . Miller - I went to the Town Board meeting the night after ours .. Our comments were well received . I took each one of them a list of the names of the members of our board , their addresses , their occupation., committees and officers names . They were very pleased .. In the discussion concerning ordinances , simplifying 1 • . .} - ' .� . Standing Committees - continued . • them , enforcing them , there was much enthusiasm in combining • them . Peg ( McElwee ) _ will work with us on that . Mr . , Williamson '' was instructed to work with us or Tom ( NiederKorn ) when needed . R . Briggs - It was also ' suggested that we try to create a com- posite land use manual for the Town which contains all of the ' local laws , regulations , ordinances . D . Hardie - I thought we had $ 3 , 200 . in the budget for 1981 . T . Kick - I thought it was $ 2 , 500 . plus the leftover from last year , $ 1 , 000 . I don ' t think we will have any problem with the ` $1 , 500 . for this year . It ' s wise to use up as much of that as : ;, " : 'we can. soas not to carry it over . . T- ; L .- Montag.ue - Didn ' t Linda ( Hirvonen ) make a motionto use his - : services until we reached the $ 2 , 000 . mark ? Z . Hirvonen - He had submitted bills for about $ 700 . We were to see what was done at the $ 2 , 000 . point and find out how much : ` more was needed to be done . Essentially this is what ' has been . done . R . Briggs - There is $ 70 . left as of May 7th . He has been paid ' H $ 735 . as of this letter . There is another $ 195 left . -; L . Hirvonen - This is more of a preliminary report . We want ` another . report when he reaches $ 2 , 000 .. R . Briggs - If . I read this correctly , he ' s looking at another 43 , 000 . inaddition to the $ 1 , 500 . plus $ 1 , 000 . for the revisions ( plus whatever the printing costs will be . V . Miller - That seems reasonable to me . Perhaps we should have ` this in. some kind of ' a motion to the effect that we have received _ his letter and look on it favorably . : ': MOTION, : D . Hardie moved that we should note that we received T . Niederkorn ' s letter and that we feel the $ 3, 000 . figure is an • acceptable estimate to work with , R . Briggs seconded , carried unanimously .. H • - . Public Relations - S . Cleveland - absent from the meeting . • IV . Special Committees -Agriculture:: - D . Hardie and H . Ley • D . Hardie - There was talk about combining the districts and as , far as Lansing was concerned there were no big changes . A public . _ , : hearing was held during- the winter and it was cut and dry . I - spoke for the Planning Board . Subdivisions L . Montague V . Miller - Mr . and Mrs . Wood came to the Planning Board from. a . -- , ' .. = mobile home park- for a subdivision . At that time we wondered if it was necessary as it was over three acres . She wanted to sell • some of this land . She came in to see Jane ( Bush Horky) . It . had not been filed as a minor subdivision except for approval . I knew that this board had approved it . I told her we would . bring it up at this meeting . She was going to see a buyer that • day and I didn ' t want to hold her up so there was no time to contact anyone . Possibly Lorne , you should follow up on this ? ' D . Hardie - Didn ' t we get into trouble on this ? V . Miller - I read the minor subdivision and it said that a copy was to . be sent to the assessor , the town clerk , the county clerk . ' Lsee. Montague - When did she come in to us ? '.•L . - Hirvonen - A year ago at the least . She said at the time that she wanted to put it in order to be able to sell it in the future . - There were three lots , a . mobile home park on one , their home on another and one was unused land . - 2 - SpeciaCommittees - continued . . V . Miller - I took the liberty to approve it . Perhaps , . Lorne Alt *: you should follow through on this , if not sold , the necessary . papers should be filed . : D . Hardie - We didn ' t have a public hearing? V . Miller - We waived it . Possible on minor subdivisions . L . Montague - We gave her a copy of minor subdivisions and maps . I '. 11 contact her . - � Sewer and Water. - T . Kick T . Kick - There was a meeting last Friday and there will be another one on the 19th. ( with the Town Board at the Town Hall ) , a review of the proposals for water . A company out of Rochester. . . is doing the feasibility study . Not to exceed $ 5 , 000 . No government funds are available so the homeowners will have to , . pay .. . Can we afford to do it ? Talked about different areas and : how to attack them . Another piece of property - Cornell is putting in a plant off Warren Road ( Farmers Woods ? ) . They are talking about a couple hundred million dollars . Related to ,. ; . nuclear somehow . L . Montague - The big cyclatron? They are going through with it ? 5 . T . KKick They are talking about the water needed for cooling on � a daily basis , one -half million gallons of water . The Village of . . hansing was proposing a new tank by the airport . , one -half . million gallon capacity and that would only serve one customer . The Morse Chain. facility is there now . A one and one -half million gallon tank would be a possibility . There will . be a lot more. . happening at the 19th meeting . You ' re all invited to come . ` V , Miller - Phil Munson called and wants us all to come to hear the report . i' irst hand '. T . Kick - There are areas desperately in need of water and all : will be asked to help pay for . it Myers has a ' voice saying their water . is fine , leave us alone . Different throughts are needed . .- . ' H.. Ley - Does the Water and Sewer Commission have a copy of the County Health Department study on the Ludlowville water contam- :ination problem ? • . : , T . - Kick - That ' s relatively new . The Health Bureau was in Lud - . - lowville and they found a problem , it was not good . They are satisfied that . we are working on it . ' H . Ley, - If you had a report like this there would be' a tendency 4 to push it from the top . ' T . Kick - The sewer, and water are two separate issues'. ` But the problem is that they go together . If you put in. water they want ' : sewers ' and if you putin sewers they use more water . There probably is government help for the sewers . • D . Hardie - I talked with Bill Bishop recently . He said that the water comes from Myers to the school now . He asked me if we pumped water twenty-four hours a day through that pipe , how much could be pumped ? . Then if you continued that pipe to the top of Ludlowville Road by 34 -B , put a stand pipe in there dnd run from . • ' • • that . Would it work ? . L . Montague - How big a pipe is it ? . D . Hardie - Five or six inches , I ' d say . V . Miller - I don ' t think so . Those wells are limited too . � : . D . Hardie - Bill ( Bishop ) said when they drilled the well in . Myers they , tried to lower the water with a fire truckdown there . - ., . It was impossible to do so . All you ' re doing is drawing water . - from the lake through the gravel . I ' m not saying thatra couple of farmers could r 0 . the, water , but others are going to question r * this too . -3 - Speeial ` Committeee - continued . • V . Miller - It might be wise to check back on our minutes and find out about these wells . Some are good , some are not . I 2. remember when Ted ( Fred ) Knight wanted to put in apartments there was discussion then . Jim Howell could help , on this . L .` I3irvonen - There is a second well down there . It ' s not being r: . used" . D . Hardie - What we are doing now is using a pump and no storage capacity . With good storage capacity you could pump twenty -four hours . a day and have a stand pipe somewhere so that it could supply water as needed . - V . Miller - There could • be state regulations on this , let ' s look `; into it . " • .: - County Planning Board - . V . Miller V . . Miller - The Warren Road project has not been started . The ��Zorse Chain - Sequr report was approved . The Beverage Bottle . H . Deposit resolutionwas passed unanimously by the Board despite • people arguing against it . They supported that state legislation: on carbonated beverages . Hopefully we could support itttoo . . : There is a meeting tomorrow night ( 5 / 12 / 81 ) . V . Old Business - - Land Use Ordinances - R . Briggs R . Briggs - I have the results of the meeting with Tom ( Niederkorn ) : : and Tom Kick . ( He passed out sheets to the members ) Tom . = ". ( Niederkorn ) has outlined a feasible time table , the legalities. involved . The bottom line is sometime in December for the Town Board to set ,a public hearing . • `V . cMiller - There is much work to be done by June 8th . We were ,. . , o have a review tonight , on the ordinances that people read . . .is not here . . Norm Stanton has many of these . p p Sid L . Hirvonen - We don ' t have wetlands , ag district and Sequr .. ' , V . Miller - Frank Liguori could help us . I ' d like to suggest we .; give you what you need , input from the board . Interested ? . . -.R . Briggs - In other words , input on all of these things ? I thought we set up a committee to expedite thin s . V . Miller - Each one of us should read an ordinance , look for flaws , things to be added , put it on paper and send it to the , committee . D . Hardie. - Herb ( Ley ) and I have come up with this . We don ' t : hear a lot of complaints ; Mobile home ordinance has been worked . .. son . so that Norm ( Stanton) can do something on it . Land use - - no -. ,:problem .. Good idea to look them over but I feel that use. has • , rov . .p ed that they have been well written . . , V, . Miller - I do hear from each one of at some tithe that the zoning officer is not carrying this out . Is there some reason for . ' this ? H . Ley - Ask him , / 8glons for this . The ordinance has been . over by a lawyer_, it ' s an enforcement problem . gone T. . Kick - I think Viola is right . We couldn ' t even define . modular . : home . - It ' s missing from the ordinance . : .L . Montague - This modular home thing , we have to have a case to . . ; bring it out . - r • • ' . H . Ley - - What about the junk yard ordinance ? V . . . I+filler. - Look hard at that . It was incorporated at first in the • land use ordinance , it was not accepted by the Town Board but it was easier to handle . Too many cars , something should be done . . " Junk , what is it ? What is a junk yard ? -q - . Zpeciai . Committ.ees - continued . ' . ; : R . Briggs - Not to much to do with flood plains , wetlands , Sequr , . , ag districts . They are pretty much established . V . Miller - The Town Board wants flood plains enforced in the same manner as land uses and it is not . L . . Hirvonen - It is a State adopted ordinance and does not `. specifically pertain to the needs of the people of Lansing . They 2have " stated that the level of the lake , the one hundred year flood level is such and such and the people must comply with it . In one case with the BZA it was a matter of an inch or a foot , something very small and it was difficult to get approval . H : : ; R . Briggs - I don ' t see how you can argue with. engineering . ' L . Hirvonen - Different areas along the lake wouldn ' t be affected ,`-. by it , the topography differs . ` ' V . Miller - We didn ' t get the BZA to handle variances on this . . . . ' ` Tom ( Niederkorn ) told us originally to not tighten it up with such details that you can ' t live with it . D . Hardie - Herb ( Ley ) and I should get in touch with Norm as he works with these things , get a list from him of . the things that . bother him. . V . Miller - Signs ?. ::D . Hardie - He says no one comes in on signs , a big problem . L . Montague - Norm Stanton ' s authority - can he go on his own or . ` must he wait for a complaint ? V . Miller - He needs a complaint . = L . Montague Burned out buildings need to be added . Does he have the authority to go ahead on this ? ' : D . Hardie - Mobile home parks , he has to renew their licenses AIL - once a year . `llP L . Hirvonen - A few years ago he was given mileage payper month . t,o Supervise and note p problems . :T . - Miller - He makes a report each month to the Town Board . D . Hardie - He has problems in getting backed up by the Town Board . • V . Miller - That ' s why they are coming back to us to make them a : Ait.tle easier to enforce . . : -R . Briggs - I ' ll call Tom ( Niederkorn ) to find out when between :June 8th and July 13th he can get together with us . I ' ll let you know . V . Midler_ - How do you feel about the time schedule ? . T . Kick - I ' m for July . . V.. Miller , - I note that , you want a meeting with the BZA . What ; time would be best for you all , August, earlier ? T. . Kick. - Tom ( Niederkorn ) has a definite work lock in August_, . :Seip ember. , October . Why not let him decide ? V . Miller - Please make a note to find out from him when . Also , ;find out from the BZA when they would like to meet . Give . them - some lead time . L . Hirvonen - They like . Tuesdays . ; R . Briggs - I ' ll be responsible for that . I ' ll call Sid ( Cleveland ) V . Miller. - Master Plan7 . Necessary input ? • .T . Kick - He knows what the goals are , he ' ll work on it . He ' s . . reviewing it .. V . Miller. - One thing with regard to districts and how to be zoned , • again : we should consider high density . There is a possibility of • Medium density . We put so much in low . . After tonight ' s presenta- tion ( R . Lucente and L . Fabbroni ) I would hope that you would take that into the context of your thinking for the Town and of future requests . . Be certain in your mind from the point , of view of sewers , tax purposes and water whether in fact that there are • - 5 - � . Old Business - ' continued . some areas , perhaps in the southern end of the Town where. you - could consider the possibility of future industrial zoning . I have a lot of second thoughts of my own because ° of the nature of - • the land . From an emotional point of view , I have one feeling . `" Looking at it realistically I must ask what it is best suited ' for . Look at your areas , allow mobile home parks , talk about residential areas , where , are they acceptable ? Can ' t leave it . all up to ' Tom ( Niederkorn ) . We sent a card to everyone , in the . Town twelve yearsago and they all said they were happy , with the way it was . Status quo - no change . No good for planning . R . Briggs - We did spend some time on that with Tom ( Niederkorn ) . Thereis also a hazard zone to contend with and he will do some thinking on that . V . Miller Possible recreation area . Concern for the lake . shore areas . Think about these things . . VI .,. -:: New Business Mr , Rodeo Lucente and Mr . Lawrence Fabbroni . were then presented . , . to the Board Members by V . Miller . Mr . Fabbroni. save each mem- b.er . present ' a copy of his Engineer ' s Report to follow along as ;' he 'spoke of a proposed apartment complex to be located in the ° I Warren Road -Farrell Road area of the Town . He mentioned that • they . had been here before the Planning Board two years ago with - . . a limited .proposal and did not want the members to be confused - with tonight ' s presentation . Mr . Fabbroni asked the members for .. questions and comments on his presentation . T_ . . Kick - Where did you get that cost for sewers and water ? L . Fab roni - We projected the footage of sewers that were to be ' _ _' put._ in. and put a value at 820 . a linear foot and then projected it - :out at 8% interest for a twenty year bond . Assuming that `Morse Chain. or an industrial developer of some kind , would pick up; . _the cost of the tank and distribution made at this point- : If ::the : water tank thing doesn ' t work out as industrial development , :you! ll , have to add it on . This strictly is based on the village apartment units and on Morningside Manor . T . Kick - Are you saying that those two developments would pay . . 7 : ':the. complete cost ? L . Fabbroni. - That ' s away of providing some range of cost . Look at what you assess , open acreage on a basis of an acre or some discounted frontage . We are talking about two hundred to three - hundred a unit instead of one thousand to fifteen hundred . a unit . , V . - Miller - You are saying that you are going to put water and H- sewers through clear zoned land . You are burying that cost your- self ? Are you going to install sewers from Morse Chain through. .clear zoned land that cannot be developed ? L '. Fabbroni - This is the airport zone °V . Miller - There can be development in the eastern part of it . As you come. off of the runway there - is an area off Cherry Road and . .:Warren Road where there can be no further. development . Who pays : for . crossing this no -rnan '. s land ? Directly. west of the airport . : L . Fabbroni - We are proposing that a district be formed of in- terested property owners . They would support the dead part of that land . It would be a problem for the Town if a developer wasn ' t here saying this . . `- V . Miller - It ' s interesting what happens when an industry comes in. . .. The Village was concerned about the cost of - sewers , even with government grants . Would the people accept it ? ;Then Morse Chain came in and took over almost two -thirds of . the cost per family , per unit . L . . Fabbroni. - The question of cost comes up . I can see private - 6 - • N.ei Business - continued . work at $ 15 . a linear foot , federal at $ 30 . . It ' s a matter of supply and demand . D . Hardie - How many acres do you have ? R . Lucente - Probably ninety to one hundred . L . Fabbroni - Another thirty acres north of Farrell . , • V . Miller - There are three houses between the Radiation Lab and your apartments ? R . Lucente - There are two new homes and two oldJ6nes . D . Hardie - Looks like water could get there sooner then sewer T . Kick - No , I don ' t think so . We ' re waiting for the State on the study of sewers right now . I think sewers are cheaper then water . I might be wrong . L . Fabbroni - I must disagree . With the exception of the tank water doesn ' t depend on a gravity situation . You are talking about a minimum cover and a minimum depth . With a sewer you may have . to take a more round about - way . . , T . Kick = Are you aware that the Town has a study on water. and sewers ? ' L . Fabbroni - I didn ' t know you had one on sewers . T . Kick It ' s not just a study on sewers . We are looking for government aid to pay for the study . -L . Fabbroni.. - Was that a 201 planor under the EPA ? T .- Kick -- These are state . V . Miller - Are you aware that the sewer coming into the new Morse Chain.. is not from Warren Road but up Bush Lane ? L . Fabbroni_ - No I wasn ' t . Rate wise that would be actually • better . T . Kick - There is riot just one tower involved , there are. several towers because sometimes the places that . need the • water the most are the furthest away . 5200 . $ 300 . that figure does not include usage . L . Fabbroni - That ' s capital debt retirement . T . hick - I can ' t believe that for a combination . You ' re at . 50,0 of . the cost . L . Fabbroni - You ' re talking about a series of towers going north . We would be a first stage . As units increased in the area , it would create an economic feasibility to go further- north . This would be a starting block . V . Miller - Thank you gentlemen 1' or your presentatioe . . - It has been interesting . R . Briggs - You are saying that you are planning to build . forty to fifty units per year . What is the original size • of the initial project ? . L . Fabbroni - We are talking about , over ten years , five . hundred units on one hundred acres . L . Hirvonen - What do you want us to consider ? L .. Fabbroni. - First of all the feasibility of proceeding , how to dovetail with the ongoing studies on utilities to avoid duplication , some indication of the amount of area you might consider to be rezoned and to be appropriate for an onsite planning . L . Hirvonen - What kind of zoning are you looking for ? High or medium? ' L . Fabbroni - High . -70 H . Ley - Does that figure include the number of units there now L . Fabbroni - Yes . We must plan for some expansion . that we can have five hundred additional units over ten years . L . Montague - How many units on one hundred acres total ? ._ . • • Lo Fabbroni - We would fill in additional density ` with utilities here in an area that we already have highways . . - -r7 - New Business - continued . developed for access . We may be only tal : ing about five hundred units over forty acres . L . . :ontai,cue - You have plans to expand in the future after ten years ? L . Fabbroni - Yes . We feel a ten year eer• iod is enough to : proceed on for now . D . Hardie - hat kind of recreational facilities areyou thinking about for the complex ? Net Town facilities . L . Fabbroni . - 1 think we WOUla seow On a site with wore detail t hat there are some very wooded areas adjacent to the Cornell f acilities that are not the best bor utility or land use . It could go in there . We eeet to find out noir you feel . D . Hardie - I tills it ' s s Li , ( l . i1g we have to talk ll ";. bU1,1t wore . L . Fabbroni - It ' s a timely interest with water and sewers , a cost consideration . ✓ . Miller - We cannot give an answer to you toinight . We are not prepared to deo so . We are glad you came in . We are in a d eep study of the Town right now . We will get back to you for more inf ormation . L . Fabbroni - Do you have a time table set up for this kind of thing ? ✓ . Miller - Yes , it will ee within the next few _months . L . Fabbroni - We will keep on top of your water and sewers and show you where we ca1i compliment yours : Mr . iueente and. lair . Fabbroni then left Lite sleeting . ✓ . Miller - We must keep an open mind , listen to the whole picture of Lansing ' s future growth . Tne 'village idg ' iAso O , tr . CtUreC that it cannot take more growth . D . Hardie - An interesting thought about the type of people :moving into the ares:. , not all s udents necessarily . R . Briggs - We haven ' t even considered high density . L . Hirvonen - The square footage allows medium density to have multiple family dwelling as does high density . It has a square f ootage requirement . L . Montague - Twenty - five people per acre , he ' s talking about this as a minimum . R . . Briggs - Sixteen families . '• V . Miller. - Chateau Claire Apartments have eight apartments on H. an acre and a half . Two story buildings . Sheraton Apartments . L . Montague - He ' s talking about five hundred units onforty acres . R . Briggs - No way without water - and sewers . • T . Kick - At our last meeting one of the items mentioned was that-. if everything was perfect , how long would it take for water? It couldn ' t be started for a year and a half , all things perfect . R . Briggs - Did he actually say they were going to pick up the . cost in. the dead area land ? ' L . Hirvonen - He wants to form a district and have them pick it up . Not only for his land but for the surrounding area . The residents would have to pay . Meeting adjourned at 9 : 45 2 . M . Next 'Meeting June 8th , 1981 at 7 : 30 P . M . PLEASE NOTE TIME CHANGE sr k ' -8-