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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1981-01-12 TOWN OF LANSING PLANNING BOARD ✓ �"�"� Date : January 12 , 1981 �-c- \ Time : 7 : 30 P . M . Present : Chairman Dave Hardie , R . Briggs , S . Cleveland , L . Hirvonen , Absent : T . Kick , H . Ley , V . Miller , L . Montague Guests : T . ? eiderkorn , Planning Consultant , Norm Stanton , Zoning Officer I . T. . • Neiderkorn Report • 6 T . Neiderkorn - Two things to do , the first one we can dispense With tonight . I rewrote the development policy to hand but and to discuss the next time we ,eet together . I have added . another policy statement , 14 , Intergovernmental Cooperation . " In terms of our general plan , it consists of a statement. of policy , background material , a series of planned proposals and a map . You should adopt some variations of this , then give it to the Town Board for their action . They wnuid probably approve it , it would become more or less a semi - official document . If and when an :issue arises , you would have. some - thing to back you up . S . Cleveland - What should we do if we felt we had a case and the Town Board didn ' t ; o along; with us ? T . Neiderkorn - Then you should resign as a board . D . Hardie - I was told that the Town Board looks to us for su ; - • estions . It ' s our job to lead in the area of planning . We should be better versed in this than they are . They ' ll: take • • our advice . . T . Neiderkorn - Getting back to the plan - if you don ' t understand T`s it , I ' ll rewrite it . We can discusss chanLes , additions based on present policy . I rewrote most ef them . ® I • B . Cleveland - I recognize that we will discuss this at your next 4 . meeting with us , but # 13 , " Land. Use Controls " , can we strengthen this ? Upgrade any existing ordinance in the town ? T . Neiderkorn - There ' s a problem in strengthening them . Unfor- tunately the law allows only a few things . When you write Ordinances you have to do it in such a way that it is not able to be • sabotaged . Your only influence is you can have site . plan approval but beyond that you can only recommend . to the Town Board . Mr . J. . eiderkorn then showed the members a map on which he had superimposed the . zoning ordinances for the Town and Village _ of Lansing . He felt that there were several areas that should be • straightened out , some that were totally disconnected . See the ` accompanying sheets describing the Town ' s and Village ' s zoning requirements . Mobile Homes are considered by both as single • family dwellings . The basic difference is that the Town permits mobile homes wherever single t ..;, - ly dwellings -„re ' permitted . The villai.. e permits mobile homes only in low density residential areas and by special permit . A special permit t requi_ 1 es a public hearing . Theyhave at escape clause and. if it doesn ' t / seem right for one reason or the other it will be denied . That ' s about the only dif - ference . Ile also said that the County Board of Health has estab - lished a new regulation , minimum lot size for a sewer , 200 ' square. now needed . That is , you must be able to inscribe a circle with a 200 ! diameter within the lot . The circle cannot be cut by a 411 draina, e way . You ' ll get fairly lame lots . He felt that the present ordinance wouldbe ti uperceded by this regulation . In cases where the regulations ci the • County Health Department are more restrictive , they take precedent . Everyone needs a permit ' from the Health Department first - procedural matter . - 1 - - - - - T . Neiderkorn Report - continued . - 5 . : Cleveland - That lot on Horvath , the mobile home , did that comply with the Health Department ' s lot size regulations ? ; eft - T . N N.eiderkorn - That ' s a good question . '; R, ; Bri ; ; s - . What . we need is a list of things for people to, do first . ; : D . Hardie - Most of the restrictions as far as septic systems g0 . are enforced by the lending institution and not so much by the ` Health. 'Department . Unless the Health Department 'knows , _ about it , theydon ' t get involved . T . ` Neiderkorn - : In your ordinance , Section 1703 , it reads , '. " No , . building permit or certificate of occupancy issued under the '' 'terms of this Article shall become or remain valid unless the - _ . holder thereof has complied with the applicable rules acid regulations of the Tompkins County Health Department Sanitary Ordinance . „ L :=::Hirvonen - Norm Stanton mentioned the Health Department . ' ' S : ;- ;: Cleveland I -would still like to have it checked . ' : • , T . aNe-iderkorn - When we start hashing over the ordinance , I think -it would_ be a good idea to have Norm come and talk about aa4a,a ,aaaa 9 . a :chis procedures . The next question is the problems you are facing; now . Where should the zoning ordinances be enlarged ?,\:i.,/:cc. a4 , ara. Talked . with the state about non- contiguous zoning ' they . said after much research , they couldn ' t see why it couldn ' t be done . There is no clear answer , no case law . They feel it would . .be acceptable , legal if there was adequate comprehensive planning z, . to justify it . They are Laing to send a memo down . IL . . _Hirvonen - Viola Miller said it is possible , spot zoning- . T . Neiderkorn - Now, that ' s different spot zoning means to take - .. seteone ' s parcel of land , pick . it out and rezone it differently � ; , 1 . then those parcels around it . r R Brigs , That ' s in my report ( referring to the Horvath area ) . 1. . S You. suggested that we take • a chance , Dave . I,.. :-1Birvonen , - I think what you ( T : Neiderkorn ) are saying. ��,is that We should have - our comprehensive plan pretty well completed ,°: before we attempt anything like that . We still have one . T Neiderkarn - Yes , that ' s right . We would want to `snake same specific reference to that - pick out some particular area : you , y Want zoned . What about the Horvath thing? R- . .,'Bri ;gs - . They want it . •L,;, Hardie . - - . I talked with ' Florita Mortlock . She called me 3- and s , . ` asked if they should came ' tonight . I told her we `would • be ` " 'a.-.1Y;:aaa. aa .aarworkingpretty closely with you . She asked about the lawyer's. fi . • , -: r.ema.rks . . I told her it ' looked possible . I couldn ' . t ., speak *for r the whole - group . We would do something ,about it . T,hey ' ;felt ata : 'one time that . we were. dropping it . I tried to reassure : herr we , . ., were working ext it aa T'. - Neiderkorn Horvath Drive area , that ' ,s Armstrong Read . -J/..:Briggs - People on the east side definitely do not want zanin��= b . T . Neiderkorn That . ' s not 'even at issue here . The question is , . how do we . change it ? To ive them the protection they . want,? R . - Bri €7gs - They would like to take a piece out and make it`' more --. restrictive . - D . `. Hardie - They keep i; oing back to ` their deed . Would it ; make - sense - to ask them , residents , property owners , who have : , :this . . restriction in their deed to come to the Planning. Board to see ;A.f their area was now more restrictive because it was in ;:their deed ? - T Neiderkorn I doubt thatou can y put that in your ordinance . - 2 - • ri 'T : Neiderkorn. Report - continued . Tyle law is pretty clear that all areas that are zoned the sarse : way to be treated . the same way . ® J L . . D . : .Hardie . - I understand that , but what about mobile homes ? ` T .mNeiderkorn - The covenance holds if it is more restrictive . D . Hardie - They feel that Horvath has not protected them , . they pare looking for help . i , ` T . Neiderkorn - What ' s in ' their deed ? No mobile homes ? . The :way : the ordinance now stands , mobile homes are permitted in single ` fa.mil dwelling areas the east side of Armstrong can , nave a ie ?.' ; ' , I•undred mobile . homes or more , they obviously ao not want . { ' ..“. . -- . ,. . zoning ' -We can ' t change that . We can address the question of mobile homes for the whole town or create another district . . .. I = ' d rather not create a smaller district for i _ obile homes . 1 ' I, . ' Hirvonen Is it possible to change a low density : district to -, >. a medium density ?. I thouk ht that that area was medium density :,a.t . first . I personally feel it would be better zoned medium : -then low . I would like to see a change in our requirements - �, tc oto address the issue of mobile homes one way or the other . ( A R' . Brig I would like a definition of mobile homes , . modular hordes . T . ;-Neiderkorn - We have a definition of every kind of dwelling you „ can think of. but not what a mobile home is . It ought to be ' t . jKdefined like the others. In our list of permitted uses `; we r 4 exclzded : that particular type of dwelling from the othere . .: D . Ha rdie Peg McElwee and. Viola Miller were very instrumental i k in the zoning ordinances . They said they would never exclude mobile homes from Lansing . . . Hirvonen - We have reached different attitudes in ten yearn :- Y time . Property values to many , are the number one pr .lority . 'r= D . Hardie There is a greater disparity between a regular home and - ; z ; ' : a mobile horse © f yesterday toren there is today . r R . .: Brigs . - Not in price . '. .4 '1.:: : ',- S .4, - Cleveland - We will run up against this thing more and more . ', . T '. Neiderkorn - Check . Section VI in your ordinance book , be aware; ! of. the meanings . Not always more restrictive . Easiestcthing is to exclude mobile homes from low or medi u density to . only . - r `i:n rural . areas . Or even harder , only in mobile home parks . `: Go through the list and look at each variance and question - it s ' in your own . mind . D . ;fiardie Let ' s look , ahead . Let ' s say we are going r to zone the ' rest of the town . Take spots and zone them . We can start : by calling everything else , rural residential , there has to be some i . ' place is Lansing for mobile homes . ff T t N.eiderk©rn - The idea then is to keep mobile horsesctrl single ' lots . Anar.ea roughly consisting of the northeast side of 34 -"B , : John . Thompson ' s .property , George Beckwi th ' s , Evans ' , Gladys Swayze ' e , Sperry Lane ; _Lakeview Drive , Finkledey Subdivision , Also , _. ,WiIderness Road , Gerdiner Property , back up into Myers Road , up the stream to :4 :' , f ; C: ;: Portland Point , the church , Fred Knight ' s apartments , Elliott ' s Y - : property , i( o ,ger Barnard ' s , on the other side of the road , Brickyard .. Road , the school and go over to Salmon Creek . This would include a ) gass station and a restaurant . T . Neiderkorn suggested that this -. area be referred to. as medium density because of the .variety ' of Lues already in it . Illt I . Hirvonen .- Are we gong to keep the acreage and frontage::: require -. menta the same or revise them ? R 1Briggs - We have to be more specific . What about that sewer requirement ? You can ' t have a long piece of property , it might . ry:ot comply with the requirements ? T . Neiderkorn = 1 think we ouuht to reconsider the mining m . . lot ' size . — 3 — . ---- i T . Neiderkorn report - continued . D : Hardie. . - I . think we ought to reconsider greater frontage with the o'''2 '-C° 4".: - . possibility of sewers coming . People could then subdivide them . T. Neiderkorn - Yes , ;good thought , but . then the house would have to 4:. 1® + be built on one side of the lot in order to resubdivide . , Now . we have this district, which might succeed . Where do we g ' ' y from there ? Where will growth' expand ? ' I, Hirvonen - There is land for sale around Asbury , twenty " acres , . on . the other side of the _ ether Horvath development R g;. Bris . - Horky ' s land is forsale . too . Along Benson Road , there is land for sale . r6 - D . .° iardie - You see the view - nice homes all through , here as . fri .00 . --.o..o.: 0000pposed to other : hodge - pod ; e area . That ' s s the area that - might grow . , . _ R . ,Bri ;s What is the projected employment figure for Morse Chain? `,.' + .D . .-lla. rdie - Three hundred or so . { ' ` ' T . Neiderkorn -- Then there ' s the Cornell Research three to . four cK . - thousand at full employment . There will be heavy traffic . . L . , : Hirvon.en Warren Road worries me . D . Hardie - Warren Road , residential area , no good way to get ;; across , maybe a new road going through to take on new traffic T •<. needs . T . " ';iceiderkorn - - I doubt that' the , State or the County would build it . . ' , \ T You . must establish a real need for it . , + j , . S .' Cleveland Triphammer carries the load now . ` Ii - Hardie We thought of a road to Feruville , South Lans ng at one time . .. r ; Mr - . Neiderkorn and the metbers then traced a route down Triphammer- ` is ROa.d ,. past the Malone mess , down the crest further on to the . Stone `' 7 '1tr ' . : Ii Burdick " Hall Read intersection . ` T- -- ; Neiderkorn - Do' ' we want the development of this area further T encouraged ? It ' s within striking distance of sewers . I, et ' yde•termine what kind of land use will be in that area , then al, ±v law or medium density to it . - S . . - .Cleveland - I feel it i_ salready medium density . ' ` ' T : Neiderkorn - The Village says 20 , 000 sq . ft . with- sewers , 60 , 000 - c sq , ft, . without , that might not be ,_ o . wild . Not ;unreasonable : .f.® r .. r . . � J ,, - a suburban area . The commercial policy says teat the 'Town ' is oo „ tO.011recog nizin that: the really concentrated coumiercial area will .b'e F in the. Village or in the City . Possbily small grocery. stores yo , . :_ ' ' - '1L'' '' '' : ''- ' : ° .-- w © uld be in the Town , no big shopping centers . +t • iy u . . II - Fiiakledey . Subdivision Report N ' f `" Dave: Hardie ;passed a letter received iron Mr . Finkledey for all ` : r' embers to read . He wrote in his letter that major improvements . : have been made since he had applied for an extension . The ' tirade . on.. the read has been improved with additional stone in the tarn area , he has drilled a well. with a capacity of approximately 7. , 000 gallons pex d y of clean , � gid. tas ti _ . e, .y � ; well water r � r i ,Luk � s_, gr ;vitt' fed ' t ; :.rou ,h a 2 " main line wits the purpose - of serving residents - on. � Fiddlers _ Green . Final work on road construction it be cop pleted . in the Spring . : D . ' Hardie 7 , 000 gallons of flowing water is not teat Much when . divided by twenty -four , not much at all . Without a reservoir illwe,. would have the same situation as with Orears , not , though . , : pressure . • - 4- - . . I . . '.l 4 ____ { _, _ . . ` ;:hII . R'. Briggs Report on MapleeFranklin Drive ' R . Briggs felt that we could create a more restrictive zone within : `' H :: ' an' already zoned _area . This is done by havin& that area taken out IIIan:d developed as a new zone . The people of the area concerned should put together a map of the area that they want to be more l restrictive . They must also tell us what they want to have . "included or excluded . The value of structures cannot be set . • i ' Z . : Hirvonen will send them a memo explaining this and. asking ' ' ' ''''''re - 'them to resubmit: a new plan . 'Letl-IV . 'Other Business el: • . Nominating Committee - . H . Ley has been called out of , town °' . " ` indefinitely . A memo ' will be sent to the Town Board "slY '` s ' . ; requesting the reappointment of T . Kick for a new term . J` rZ 2 '. Kawasaki Sign - The Kawasaki signs erected on the corner of r Lansingville Road and 34 -B and also on the corner of F eerier e . ' Road and 34eB have been approved by the Board of Zoning . - Appeals . They are not to exceed six square feet and must be ten feet off of the pavement . The BZA unanimously approved the sign on Lansingville Road saying that it was not unsafe re ' :accident . Mr . Niswender . is the owner of the business . - ' I 5 . Cleveland - There ' were ten iu iediate property owners agains.t ' - this ; sign . The BZA ' s action has established a precedent , no basis to deny future sign placements . Not in the Town ' s interest Y -e ° L . Hirvonen - I agree with that . D . Hardie e The last time that I spoke with them they . - said they were . going to allow the sign on Fenner Road as it was ;: not a ' res idential area but not the one on Lansin ville . R : Briggs - I ' d like to eo on record that everyone a ere tonight III1 „ -.. ; :r:,/, is aain 'wt this . D . Hardie e We should meet with the BZA to work . together not at cross purposes . '$ L . Hirvonen - I believe that • we should have a re presentative at their meeting , . Li °err ; Stanton wants us there . e . After the meeting ` with `T . , Neiderkorn was concluded , N ©rm Stanton.•. came in . He . informed ormed tle members of the Board that the basicee ; 1. 4A for-oat had been followed . He read the _ minutes from the - 11 / ll /SO BZA meeting . - He also said that there were seven me �.ber .s ` . the . ., . Board , four_ from zoned areas and three from unzoned. areas . Mr- . ' LStanton said that John Barney " had gone to the premises: rc' subject of dispute . The �. ubject of Safety was of the utro' st importance . Accidents that had occurred there were not as a := result of signs but from rn other reason ,, . bill Stewart ;;made' f > the motion and John Hicks seconded it . ee t , '''' D . Hardie - Did they feel it was a hardship situation: • N . Stanton ern My impression was that they felt it was as much e . as Auncon ' s and Todd ' s . ( Other SijaS that had been approved . ) . . - . D . Hardie - It bothers lac as the planners said it was a residential area . : N . Stanton - The sign ordinance makes no distinction between commercial or residential . R . Briggs - Who said it was not ', safe ? ' �. ' " ' ' N . Stanton. - The Board did , based on the topography of: the area ' S . Cleveland - How cane people on Lwnsingville were entified arid only one on Lakeview ? . N . Stanton e It was done according to the . map . D . Hardie - We want information . Two ofus went to the thi titin ; ' ; ot one indication from the chairman , one Barney and were net ' invited back . _ 5 - . _.._ _ _ _ . - _---_ -_ - ._ . .._.__-_ _.-__.___ ._ .__ -- • Other Business - continued . S . Cleveland - Several Lakeview people asked to me follow u up On it . �'' = N . Stanton - PMZy suggestion is for you to go back to adjourned' meeting , . , • ` I = S . Cleveland - What about another sign request - , for that corner ? N Stanton - They would have to go through the same Motions , ; ' They felt he had a hardship case . 3 . • S . Cleveland suggested that an official letterof condolence be sent to Viola Miller from the members of the Planning Boe.rd . L . flirvonen will do this . ° 4o Encumbered funds - T . Kick had been asked to check on that . R . Briggs told T . Neiderkorn to submit his bill for 1980 . • 5 Salmon Creek Watershed - D . Hardie reported that the : Agsicul tural Stabilization Conservation would like us : to send a letter saying that we are for . it . They will provide. . the ` T I funds to do the work . It is supposed to help ' creeks . , prevent tyti . ' soil erosion and degradation due to manure runeff . ' S . Cleveland -; I think it ' s consistent with good planning . A , r1 D. : Hardie - I asked icor something to be sent to each member w so they could. read it . At our previous meeting , I, . . M© nta ue "„ l; , ' ` , 1'51 w concerned` that , it :r� i ht change the streams courses . 1: : T . •. - ' ! ' sr r `. _Kick felt that at that time there was not enough information. Y S ^ We never , did receive the material . ' '' 6 . Proposed pier, boat launching ramp and protective wall at Myers � ' Point A - -: eno will be sent to F . Munson , CIaci• rrn ,_-n ofthe r Town Board to the effect that those memoers ' present at this ` , ` meeting were very much against this project . 4 7 . Lakeview Area - Spot Zc nin.g - H . Briggs ave a , report, sa,� 'iill n ' k M : that spot . zoning is . ot contiguous with an already zoned . area : ` ry He said that . T . Neiderkorn recommended that ae he hathinot < , s : l , ! ` received -ward from Albany about the legality of this' : ;that �T< m...5 .i should go mead . We should zone it following the same steps �. 1CH 11?4 outlined for the Horvath area and the worst that can ' happen . ' would be for someone to take this ordinance to court . :, I . we :1- - "I' -lose in the court , the ordinance would just be thr ® wnout and s, the area would not be - zoned any longer . ( This ' information was - obtained prior . to tonight ' s meeting . ) = lNext : Meetnb January 26 , 1981 s , • Next Meeting with T . Neiderkorn February 9 , 1981 . . All members : are - L re•uested in the meantime to review the policy statements , look at = M1zeig inordinance , Article VI and review permi t . ted uses in each area . Me_etint ad jchurned at 10 : 10 P . M . oem - 6 - - ° . • - , • . . ` .. Y i 1 - t$k l . 1 - , 1 _ -..-._ ..-. .. . . . -_ .- - - .. .+ .,. - .