HomeMy WebLinkAbout1980-12-08 TOWN OP LAN SING PLANNING BOARD
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Date : December 8 , 1980
lime : 7 : 30 P . M .
Present : Chairman Dave Hardie , H . :Briggs , S . Cleveland , T . Kick , H . Ley ,
L . Montague
Absent : L . Hirvonen , V . Miller
Guests : Zoe Pronti , Tanya Smith , Chris Smith , Carmen mix , Robert Mix ,
Bob Bush , Jessie Bush , Larry Cooper , Carol Nicoson , Ronald
Nicoson , Balint l . orik
I . Minutes from previous meeting
November 10 , 1980 - R . Bri ; s moved to accept the minutes . T . Kick
seconded , carried unanimously .
II . Resolvinu; rsroblew of Franklin Drive area - how to deal with other
subdivisions ( mobile homes ) .
D . Hardie presented a copy of the letter received from the Franklin
Drive group . Linda Hirvonen sent a letter to the Town Board and
also a copy of the same to the people concerned . They felt we
were going to drop the matter .
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L . Montague - Opened the floor for discussion . He felt that some of
the homes across from the mobile home in question lotere in worse
condition than it was . He wondered what the neighbors were con-
sidering to be ' bad ' in line of this .
R . Nicoson - #1 it is a known fact that a mobile home deteriorates
in value faster and in apper:. rance than a house . It also affects
the value of the property from which you people draw your taxes .
We are all bound presumably by a certain line in our deed not
to put trailers on our property . This apparently has been
' violated . We are not trying to challenge that violation . At
this point , what we are saying is , ' stop , no more violations on. .
property , sales which lead to trailers going onto it . It ' , a
violati on ' of our development . '
L . Montague - My point is it didn ' t seem to be a mobile home .
R . Nicoson - It is by definition of the . Mobile Home Standards
. Association . It has a frame under it on which axels could be
placed . .
B . Bush - I would like to express if I may - anything existing , we
can ' t do a thing about it . I don ' t like the trailer there , don ' t
want more - let ' s forget the east side of Armstrong Road . It is
devaluating our property . We need action . Your secretary ' s
letter sounded like you were putting it aside . My personal
opinion is you should do something . Your Ordinance Officer
'" admitted this . He has no guide lines . Your group should , et
together ' with the Town Board .
D . Hardie - We do have guide lines . ' are on single family .
dwell You want restrictions on mobile homes , you want them
. excluded . We should suggest to the Town Board that we have
problems with the ordinance . There is no point in our working
to make ichanges in the ordinance if the Town Board doesn ' t go
along with us .
B . Bush - Is the Town Board against us ? Against this ?
D . Hardie - No . They feel they can ' t do :NIT':
nything about the east
• nide of Armstron ; Road . How large an area do you want to work with ?
L . Montague - How much work are you willing to put into this?
Ilk :
Z . ' Pronti - When we first talked to you about a month ago or so , this
was all within our area . It was to be a very easy thing to get
through . We did send you a letter about what we wanted , it was
to be . no problem . All of a sudden it ' s a tremendous problem .
T . Kick - The map you drew didn ' t just include your area . Those
' other people are up in arms . Those people say no . .
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Franklin Drive area - continued .
Z . Pronti - Weil , ae ore too .
D . Hardie - You brou ,lht a problem to us . 'vie ;said let ' s solve it .
Your map didn ' t solve the E" , roblern .
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Z . Pronti - Are you solving; the problem because these other people
are upset ?
D . Hardie - They ' re just as upset as you are .
Z . Pronti - Are you saying that the Board is more favorable to these
other people ? .
D . Hardie - Absolutely not :
Z . Pronti - The first time we were There you said it didn ' t seem
improbable . We should try for whatever we wanted . We needed
f eed back to find out whether it would work or not .
D . Hardie - You didn ' t get feed back . That ' s the problem . You
didn ' t talk to anybody on the other aide of the road . We tried
to solve the problem one way and it didn ' t work . So let ' s go
f orward . Iffy question is , what area do you want us to work with ?
- I ' m asking for definite boundaries .
Bush - Would it be plausible to ; et something on the books with
regard to this ? Would this then have a bearing with the Town
Board ?
D .- Hardie - I think that makes sense . Would you. tell me what the
Frank Horvath development includes ?
C . Smith - Franklin Drive off of '1' riptu . ; ; er , trailer on the corner ,
picks up reg , t of the pro uerty down to Arms trorib Road , then
property down on Maple . Mo_ t of the people who came to the
meetings live in this area , they : , ianed the petition .
D . Hardie - What about across the road on Triphammer ?
C . Smith - They didn ' t show up for the meetings .
dIP D . Hardie - But didn ' t Horvath build those homes ?
C . Smith - Yes , but I ' m not interested in their oroblem .
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R . Briggs I ' m going; to make a report later on this evening about
spot zoning . Talked with Tom Neiderkorn about it . I don ' t think
you can zone in an area within a zoned area . That area is zoned .
• I don ' t think you can take a part of it and make it more restric -
• tive . Tom ( Ne _i_ der ._ orn ) ha . s a call in to .lalbony for a ruling . Vie
need a le _ 'al- determination . I think what you have to do is
include it all . One side is not zoned and they want it; to stay
that way . You Lot to say no rho Jile homes at all .
R . Nicoson - What are the laws that supercede that ?
R . Briggs - I understand that the most restrictive takes precedent .
R . Nicoson - On these deeds it says no permanent mobile homes . We
need to find out what ' s operable .
R . Briggs - It ' s always superceded with the public law . Public law
is more restrictive . If your deed is more restrictive you must
pursue it legally . It has nothing to do with us .
D . Hardie - You have two different things here . You ' re supposed to
have single family dwellinus there . Ii' you cause in and raid
• someone was building; an apartment house and we didn ' t protect
you then we would. be in the wrolha . We don ' t make the ordinances .
We suet them to the Town Board . The Town Board passes them .
Norm Stanton enforces them . We plan , maintain your tape of
- community . Keep that in mind . We have nad poor public relations .
Neiderkorn is a ,rofer sional planner - he has the expertise to
• help us through this . It is not simple . We are not going to
111 • drop it . Have to take in the whole area .
C . - Smith - All of us here were under a false sense of security . We
were told we were zoned and yet when you read it , we are not
really . zoned .
D . Hardie - You ' ve • decided that you don ' t ;rant any mobile homes .
• But that was not in the ordinance . There are a lot of restrictions
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Franklin Drive area - continued . •
ih the ordinance but that was not one of them , in the low
density area . I hate to hear you keep saying, that you are
not zoned , because you are .
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Z . Pronti - What is a covenance ? Ithaca has them . Is it something
under the zoning ordinance ?
- L . Montague - What is your interpretation of the word ?
Z . Pronti - Well , restrictions . . . .
L . Montatue - Under our mobile homes restrictions there is a certain
amount of area to be covered , a mobile home park , a ao aile home
as a ..single dwelling or ac a i . io bile home on a certain plot of land .
Z . Pronti - Right . In your low density zoned area can you have
rules under that such as drainage and r; o on?
C . Smith - In your lowdensity section , let me read this last part
of the paragraph , under section 610 , it says , ' where substantial
limitations on the uae of die land is necessary to protect it
for efficient future use and to preserve the residential character
of the neighborhoods , the value of development and the safety of
residents . ' That was the intent .
D . Hardie - The character of the nei � _hborhood hasn ' t chan; � ed . There
is nothing there unsafe . It ' sa single family dwelling .
C . Smith - That ' s where we differ , on the definition o ' what is a
single family dwelling .
R . Brigs - That ' s where the problem is , the definition of a single
family dwelling . They define in the ordinance that a trailer is
a sin , le family dwelling .
Z . Pronti - But in an area where the homes are forty to fifty
thousand dollars more then the trailer , it detracts from their
value . The value of the whole development .
D . Hardie - How many of you own property across from Armstrong Road ?
' On the west side of the road ? Wily did you buy an expensive home
- when you could see that mess ?
Co Smith - I , knew what was there then . It ' s one thing to look a
quarter of a mile away and see it and another thing to have ' it
in your own back yard . This is planning ? You should plan for
Lansing .
R . Nicosen - Or the next point is 1i we allow this then people have
the right to build anything; they want and you ' ll e;et a variety of
homes . But take that a step further and sell a piece of property
now that is in our nei ;hborhood which then is across the street
from everybody ' s home and they in turn sell it and put a mobile
home on it , in violation of the ordinance , then that ' s when we
begin to get agitated .
D . Hardie - What we want to do is help you . What you want is no
more mobile homes in your area and we are going to suggest that
to the Town Board . Aa far as the legality of this .goes , we must
be advised . Perhaps it will 11c :irl ; 1 _ ererat; ; oJ . ution .
R . Ura. , s - Our minute „ ; '. reg u i L :f.. 0 11.1:fonda ion . All kind , .; of
solutions may be available , meeting with a professional planner ,
if the ate law says no to what you. want , oL. r_ cands are tied .
We will ;tee what we can do for you . Describe a mobile home .
Tom Neiderkorn felt we couldn ' t do it . He has called Albany and
hopes to have answers by Wednesday ( 12 / 10 / 50 ) .
• B . Bush. - Knowing the low density area and knowinb the town per se ,
we don ' t stand a chance on spot zoning .
111 R . Briggs - Spot zoning i think we can beat . It ' s the other , isolating
an area within an area with spot zoning , saying that that is Goin
g
to be more restrictive , that ' s the : , rchl_ em . We think the only way
to ' go is to rezone tie whole .area .
C . Smith - What kind ofc_ bport would you have for rezoning the whole
area ?
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Franklin Drive area - continued .
D . Hardie - From County F tannin,. comes the word tat if 20% of
toe people in the area turn down zoning it is out .
K . Briggs - Also , it tnen takes three -fourths of the Town Board
to overrule it .
C . Smith - Triat ' s the key right there , the To ,^7Y? Board .
H . Ley - Do you. save more then 50A of the people for it ?
C . Smith - Yes , definitely .
T . Kick - We had a group of people who came here and asked us for
our help . The same people had the legal side with them . I
have the same deed as you . If this would have happened in
our development , we would have gotten together and :' one after
the developer for allowing a trailer to , et in there .
B . Bush - Norm Stanton needs you people and the Town Board to
Let together and sive nim a definition of a mobile home vs .
a modular home .
ac Norm io concerned a mobile home and a dingle f - g
S . Cleveland - We went down thro ,.; ,h the Ordinance and we don ' t
have a tning to take any decisive action with . We can recom-
mend alter clarification from Albany to " o to the Town Board
h ave them decide to userode de t1 e document , to protect owners . .
B . Bush - Assuming it went to : ubzonln ,, would a
i.� lel it be cli, addition
o r a revamping of ti' 1e ; ? re seat . _ L' cu,_`?en. t ?
S . Cleveland.
- need a revision of the e7: iS1; 1214, l'LJCL1TIlent .
I sub : , : it we : I . ould upgrade what we have for the :-, 00d of the
town and , 00d planning . Without an up to date ordinance it
is frustrating . I respect both view points . You , by your
actions , may just force the Town Board to move forward .
SB . Bush - That is our aim .
MOTION : S . Cleveland made tue motion that on the rendering of the
legal opinion List provides tne necessary clarification that if
we can add to the existing ordinance with regards to the
• Horvath Subdivision ( Franklin Drive and Maple Drive ) we
shall attempt to change the ordinance with regard to spot
zoning within a zoned area to maKe it more restrictive .
Seconded by H . Ley , carried unanimously .
All the guests with the exception of Fir . Cooper then left the meeting . Mr .
Cooper wanted it to be known and in the record that he did not consider
his home ( on the east side of Arrnstron ; Road ) to be trashy and that it
was assessed at more then some of the homes on Nai le and F' ran _ :-lin Drives .
He does riot want zoning and tat ia of tne reasons oe? I loved to
Lansing . He had not been contacted by any of the people on the spot
zoning problem .
III . Norninatinn, Committee
H . Ley has agreed to ;., e rve as ci ) aie q n for the ilo olnaLlh committee
with L . J4ontar ; ue ai istin" him .
IV . Report from R . t3rinns on Lakeview area
R . Briggs felt that Tom NeiderKorn was negative about what we have
in mind . He ' s all for anything tnat ' s more restrictive then we
• already have . We would have to hook into an already zoned area ,
not much of a connection needed . He ( T . Neiderkorn ) also wants
Ian updated zoning; map . R . Rrict, s will call N . Stanton for one .
We should add a section to t e ordinance regarding mobile homes ,
single family dwellings . Mow whore they are allowed or not .
R . Briggs will meet with Mr . NeiderKorn . av i.n aid will report
to the Planning Board . Mr . Neiderkorn felt thatT
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R . Briggs report. - continued . .
this was not a good time to talk to anyone in the Lakeview area .
Report by Dave Hardie and Herb ley on Finkledey Subdivision
' 'e They were unable to get in touch personally with Mr . Finkledey .
tutnlzhlaa message with I' Ir . r' inkledey ' s partner to get in
VI . Report by Dave Hardie on Tom Neiderkorn
D . Hardie - I spoke with Torn ( Neiderkorn ) as to when we were going
torsomething again and that I felt we should keep at it . Torri is
very. busy with other business matters at the present time but
they should be clearing up soon . He will try to report to us
at the next meeting , January 12 , 1981 .
VII . New Business
1 . Soil Conservation District - ial . non Creek Valley
B . Hardie - The A . S . C . ( Agricultural Stabilization Conservation )
is a government operation that hands out money to farmers .
They would like to get some special funds for the Salmon Creek
. , Valley and they would like us to say it is a good idea . It
is for soil conservation . Individual farmers will receive the
. . money for putting in strip cropping as opposed to one big
slope , such as corn . In other words the soil will stay there .
R . Briggs - Will there be any excavation?
T . Kick - When they go in there and start changing the flow of the
creek it could affect the fishing . The fishermen would be
against that . They should say exactly what they want to do .
R . Briggs - I would like a list of things that the soil
conservation plans to do there .
41P2 .. Agricultural Hearin - D . Hardie reported that there will be a
hearing on 12 / 15/80 at 7 : 30 P . M . for the agricultural district
. to enlarge this and several other districts . T . Kick said he
• would attend the meeting . D . Hardie feels that it is a great
idea for the town . It basically tries to keep land in farming
. by reducing taxes on bonafide farmland as opposed to land
being used for development . An annual income of $ 10 , 000 .
must _ come from the farm to qualify . He feel . it is a l; ood law .
MOTION : R . Briggs made the motion that the Lansing Town •
Planning Board feels that the Agricultural District is a good
idea and that we support it .
T . Kick seconded it , H . Ley and D . Hardie abstained as they
• . are farmers , motion carried .
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• 3 . D . Hardie passed out a letter and a map from the Corps of Engineers
for the construction of a proposed fishing access in the old
International Salt Plant area . They propose to build a concrete
boat launching; ramp , 40 ' x40 ' breakwall , dock fishing pier
• 150 ' long , stone rip-rap protection along the existing shore ,
This is to provide fishing access at Meyer; Point . Do we
need this , he asked ?
R . Brigs L It would put them into competition with tax payers
already there . It would really hurt them . Mrs . Ford would
- . certainly be upset .
D . Hardie ' - This is an application for a permit under the
111 . authorityof the River and Harbor Act , Section 10 of 1899 .
L . Montasue - I thought that Gary. Lee had ,one out to the state
of Was}iincton to p, et a ce , e t company to come in near that
spot . . They would convert the fly ash from Milliken to cement . .
R . Briggs will find out what the Park Commission thinks about
this application .
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VIII . Other Business
1 . Minutes from the 11 / 3 /80 , 11/ 10 / 80 / 11 / 24 / 80 meetings will be
sent to Florita Mortlock immediately . Only those portions •
pertaining to the Franklin Drive -Maple Drive area will be
included .
2 . In the future , copies of all correspondence sent out from the
Planning Board will be included with the members minutes .
3 . T . Kick is to get any dollars that the Planning Board has left
from this year , to be encumbered for 1981 .
4. 0 D . Hardie passed out the letter from the Conservation Department
on the work done at the Morse Chain site .
5 . H T . Kick made a report on the Malone Mess . He could not deter-
mine the number of cars buried in the dirt , dirt pushed back .
He spoke to Mr . Bob Sprole , who lives three doors down , who
would like to see - the area cleaned. up . Mr . 3-prole mentioned
a sign there with regard to anyone interested in leveling off
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the area but he could not locate it . Will check again . Mr .
Sprole commented that nothing . will come of this , as clean up
has been mentioned before and the mess is still there . D .
Hardie remarked that V . Miller felt uncomfortable to write to •
Ken Malone and that N . Stanton was too busy to do so . He felt
that it should be reported to the Town Board that a number of
unregistered cars , more then two were left on the Malone
• • . property .
Next Meeting - January 129 1981
Meeting closed at 9 : 30 P . M .
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