HomeMy WebLinkAbout1967-05-11 1
Minutes
LANSING PLANNING BOARD
May 11 , 1967 : Town Hall
Special Meeting
• PRESENT : James Showacre , Chairman ; Mrs . Viola Miller ; Messrs . Paul Barron ,
Alex Cima , Frederick Edmondson , John Ettinger , Herbert Ley
Also attending : Messrs . Anton J . Egner and Thomas Niederkorn , of the firm of
Egner & Niederkorn Associates , Ithaca ( for interview portion
of the meeting only)
* * *
Before the meeting convened , Mr . Edmondson announced that Mr . Bailey had declined
to appear this evening . Another prospective planner has been invited in Mr .
Bailey ' s place , and Mr . Edmondson will know later whether this planner will accept .
The meeting was called to order by the chairman at 7 : 15 p .m . Copies of a form let-
ter dated May 8 , 1967 were distributed . This letter will be sent to people inter -
ested in acquiring land in Lansing . This special meeting was called ( 1 ) to inter -
view the planning firm of Egner & Niederkorn , and (2) to go through the first draft
of a mobile home and trailer park ordinance .
Mr . Niederkorn made the presentation for the firm of Egner & Niederkorn PRESENTA-
Associates , as follows :
TION
• Generally speaking , 701 funds are not easy to obtain . In the offices in
which these funds are handled , a study is in process to establish a pri-
ority system. The need must be demonstrated by a section in the applica•
tion in which the community needs are outlined , what its problems are ,
and what it intends to do with the money . Apparently there is a personnel
problem in Albany , so that there are not enough planners in the study
office to take care of this work .
Planners who are chosen will learn the needs of the community and its
ideas , and will write these up and give an estimate of the cost to com-
plete the projects . This will be submitted to the Planning Board and
to the State of New York.. This is followed by a joint meeting of the
boards and of someone sent from the study office . The application is
then sent to New York and then to Washington for final review. After
the final review the State authorizes the community to go ahead with
the work . The scope of services must be determined by the Planning Board .
The firm of Egner & Niederkorn finds out all the facts about the com-
munity and how it is integrated into the region , its needs and facilities ,
Circulation problems , etc . This must be done before any plans are made .
It appears that Lansing is a divided community of about 70 square miles .
What seems to be needed is a broad approach to the northern three- quarters
of the Town , and a close approach to the southern quarter ; that is , broad
zoning for the northern three-quarters , and tight zoning requirements for
• the southern quarter . The accumulation of information would be followed
by analysis of the material , and then some presentation to the Planning
Board at each meeting. After all of the meetings fpr prventation pur-
poses % there will be a summation. Then there must be recorded a series of
Minutes , LANSING PLANNING BOARD , May 11 , 1967 ; Town Hall , Special Meeting , page 2
positive statements by the Planning Board . From the policy and the analysis of
existing conditions , the planner can begin to develop land use proposals for the
future . This will be presented in a graphic and visual form , and documented and
justified . Then during the refining period the firm begins to lay the outlines for
the subdivision zoning ordinance . They also begin to work during this period on the
capital improvements program , scheduled over a five- or six-year period . At this
stage also , other sources of governmental financing will be investigated . Then
everything is drawn together and a final summary report is made , containing all of
the recommendations , the policies , factors , etc .
The planners like to meet jointly with the Board and the public-at- large once or
twice during the period . They suggest such a general meeting of all the towns -
people who are interested in finding out what is going on.
The principals of this firm are Messrs . Egner and Niederkorn , and they are person-
ally on hand in any job they undertake . They have plans for the Towns of Dryden ,
Aurelius , Horseheads and Big Flats , and in the thirteen counties of the Appalachian
region ; these jobs are , however , spread out over a two- year period .
For the Lansing work , subdivision regulations could be supplied early . They could
work with citizens groups if their work could be spelled out clearly , but there
are a number of ways in which they would have to do their own work , in order to be
properly grounded . If they were to use citizens groups , they would have to supply
the work outline and the methods to be followed in doing the work . Citizens groups
are valuable because if they are involved they know what is going on , and these
• planners would go out of their way to accommodate citizens groups in order to get
them involved . This worked out well in Ithaca ' s East Hill area .
Some of the techniques developed in Dryden might be applicable in Lansing .
Base maps ought to be checked thoroughly , and then the information could be put on
the special 701 maps when the study is made .
Edmondson I take it that your firm is willing to proceed on this job .
Niederkorn Yes , we would be .
Showacre Described the recent windshield study , which was called a "preliminary
study . " This will give a good idea of the rate of growth since the
1960 census .
Ettinger Does this have to take two years ?
Niederkorn The State says it does . The job could be finished , but there must be
meetings continued through a two-year period .
Edmondson This gives an opportunity to sit back and think .
• Ettinger If we were to get the green flag , when could you start ?
Niederkorn Not until the State authorized us to incur costs . I would . think we
would be able to start in . six months .
Minutes , LANSING PLANNING BOARD , May 11 , 1967 ; Town Hall , Special Meeting , page 3
Edmondson Presented a lift of ten questions , as follows , answered by Mr . Niederkorn
as shown below :
• Question 1 What Towns have you worked with in the past ? What kind of follow-up
work , if any , have you been asked to do in any of these towns ?
Niederkorn No follow-up . This is one of the problems of the whole planning
process . Did a subdividion regulation for the Town of Dryden , so they
are going on to the 701 funds . The Greater Ithaca Regional Planning
Board has not been very active in the past three or four years . But
now they have reached the point where they have hired a planning
director , with the specific charge to go out and work with the members
of the Planning Board . This has stimulated the outlying towns to do
planning also .
At least for the southern part of the Town of Lansing they would profit
by going in for the 701 funds . The Regional Planning Board could per-
haps work out something for Lansing .
Ettinger Do you have a 701 which has been completed ?
Niederkorn Yes , Danby and several in Jersey . There is no zoning ordinance in Danby .
Question 2 Have any important physical developments resulted in any of the towns
as a result of your planning work ?
• Niederkorn 701 for the Ithaca urban area in 1959 . Part of that plan had to do
with the development of the Inlet Valley . We recommended that the
Lehigh route be taken out of there , and that the area be developed .
As a matter of fact , the Ithaca Festival plan has come out of this .
In Danby we suggested a number of areas for sanitary land fill , and
they have investigated at least ten sites , with the intent of estab-
lishing a new area . They are in a great controversy over a town hall
which was a recommendation of ours .
Question 3 What are the basic planning studies that you ( the Consultant) feel this
town (Lansing) must take ?
Edmondson Passed over this question .
Question 4 How much can a Town expect to spend on a plan? How much of a Town ' s
annual budget should be spent on Planning ?
Niederkorn You can expect to spend at least $25 , 000 on the plan , and depending on
how active you are in administration of the plan , continuing studies ,
applications for State and federal funds , you might have to spend
$3 , 000 to $5 , 000 a year .
Edmondson Can you equate that in terms of federal and State funds ?
• Niederkorn If this is in your budget , this would result in perhaps 50% matching
funds .
J
Minutes , LANSING PLANNING BOARD , May 11 , 1967 ; Town Hall , Special Meeting , page 4
Edmondson Are we classified as Appalachian Region ?
• Niederkorn Yes , you are .
Ettinger Is the $25 , 000 the Town portion ?
Niederkorn No , this is the total cost , and you would pay 1 /6 of that .
Egner Your budget will increase with the additional activity . Any part of
your expenses will be offset .
Barron What is the breakdown on the $ 25 , 000 ? What is the major portion of
this money used for ?
Niederkorn It is fairly thinly distributed over the basic studies , the plan
preparation , and the ordinance studies . The basic studies would per-
haps take 40% , the planning proposals another 30% , and the implementa-
tion studies the remainder .
Showacre At what point from the time a planner is chosen does 701 start picking
up the expenses , and until what point down the Town have to stand the
expense ?
Niederkorn No expenses until the plan is approved . One of the problems with work
for the government is that work we figured on three years ago cannot be
• done for that amount now . We start to work as soon as the government
authorizes us to incur costs . In the Town of Dryden we received the
executed contract about six months after they had authorized us to in-
cur costs .
Question S How large is your office ? How many men will work on the Lansing Project ?
Edmondson Already answered .
Question 6 Will you employ consultants ? Who ? And for what aspects of the work ?
Niederkorn Have employed people in the past to help us make a program questionnaire
and put it on computers . No other occasions . One of our selling points
to towns outside of this area J, that we have the facilities of Cornell
University . In this case we would not use a consultant except perhaps
on an economic base study - J . R. Buden , in Syracuse .
Ettinger Do you utilize graduate students ?
Niedeckran -Me cen use them , but it depends on the type of work . Graduate students
work in our office . We find that this is satisfactory if one person
can oversee all the activities , so that the interpretation is kept
uniform throughout the entire township .
• Question 7 Who on your staff will direct the (Lansing) project ? How much time
will be spent in Lansing ?
Niederkorn One or the other of us will direct the project .
S M
Minutes , LANSING PLANNING BOARD , May 11 , 1967 ; Town Hall , Special Meeting , page 5
Question 8 How much time will be needed ?
• Edmondon Passed this question.
Question 9 Fee ?
Niederkron "Is it possible to discuss fees before entering into the work? " You Can
establish some criteria , but it is rather meaningless , An assumption
must be made based on• the scope of services , and the fee is based on
what we do for you . What it ends up being is a give- and- take of what
you need , what we think it is going to cost , and what the State thinks
it will cost . Then the State has its own administrative fees .
Edmondson Whould we strike this as a question to the three consultants ? The
element is outlined , and this is difficult to judge .
Niederkorn It is always asked .
Question 10 What must a Town do on its own , and over a long period of time to im-
plement and achieve a Plan ?
Niederkorn What you should do in the short range is to sit down and work out among
yourselves a skeleton scope of services program as if you were dealing
with an architect , and give that to the chosen planner and let him work
it over . In order to submit an application you have to figure that out
• anyhow. The more direction a planner has , the better .
Showacre The Town ' s asset is its rural nature and its agricultural character .
What we have been promoting is the preservation of this basic character ,
and residential areas . We don ' t want the area chopped up with other
types of activity such as businesses and trailer parks , But in order
to preserve our town , these other elements should be located in such a
way as not to detract from this atmosphere . This is the opinion of the
residents . The conflict is in the money involved . The people from out-
side want to cane in and take advantage of the open spaces , for purposes
not in our goals . With no regulations of any kind to maintain this
concept , it is a matter of creating same negotiation between the de-
veloper coming in , and the land owners .
Niederkorn I feel that all development is related to demand. My initial feeling is
that you are going to have to concentrate on fairly detailed planning in
the southern pati , astd looser planning in the northern part .
Showacre Some of us who live in the southern end have given a great deal of
thought to a general idea of where various things should be , and we hope
that a planner will include this general picture .
Barron It should be what the people in those areas want .
• Niederkorn The only point I was making is that wec
apQre lace any direction you can
give.
N , r
Minutes , LANSINT PLANNING BOARD , May 11 , 1967 ; Town Hall , Special Meeting , page 6
4111 Egner It helps us to be more specific .
Niederkorn We are interested in the job . We know the area and feel we can do a
good job in it .
Messrs . Egner and Niederkorn left at 8 : 35 p .m . , and the members of the
Planning Board then discussed the presentation and the planners them-
selves , as it was felt that conclusions should be drawn while the
interview was fresh in the minds of the members .
The members of the Board then agreed upon Wednesday , May 24 , as a
meeting date to interview Arthur Reed .
Ettinger Withdrew the resolutions submitted previously , in order to resubmit
revisions of them .
Motion : Resolved , That proposed Subdivision Procedures submitted May 11 ,
1967 , be accepted by the Town of Lansing Planning Board as their
Official Subdivision Procedures until such time as they are amended or
replaced by complete Subdivision Rules and Regulations of the Town of
Lansing ; and be it further Resolved , That the Planning Board of the Town
of Lansing may modify the procedures for Subdivisions of 2 , 3 , or 4
• proposed lots or building sites if said modification is considered in
the best interest of the Town of Lansing .
The motion was seconded by Mr . Edmondson .
tea the roll call vote which followed , the motion passed unanimously .
All business for the evening having been concluded , Harris Dates met
with the Board , beginning at 9 : 15 p .m. , for purposes of a discussion of
an ordinance concerning mobile home and trailer parks . Mr . Showacre
read aloud the proposed ordinance section by section , so that Mr . Dates
and members of the Board could comment .
The Recording Secretary was excused at 10 : 45 p .m. , as her services were
not required for the remainder of the meeting. which adjourned at 11 : 00
p .m.
4111
I..
Discussion of planner interview ; May 11 , 1967 FOR INTERNAL USE ONLY
•
Edmondson These two men are very capable . They are interested , and both live in
and love the environment and the community . Of all the people who have
worked for the public good for no pay , Tom Niederkorn would be high on
the list . As a firm , they have not had much experience , but in total
individual experience they have had tremendous and very good experience .
Showacre Knows from having talked with Tom Niederkorn that he is someone who
analyzes what needs to be done , and then sets out to accomplish it to
the very best of his ability . Does not know Egner that well , but feels
that given a chance to perform , Tom Niederkorn will enlist the aid of
those he feels can contribute . Niederkorn will want the best job pos -
sible , and would not want to be associated with something that is a
back- room organization . He has the nature and personality to work in
Lansing . Has some reservations , such as the timing ; although he knows
that Niederkorn was willing , knowing that 701 was a possibility in
Dryden , to create a subdivision ordinance for Dryden , which is a fairly
good one for the purposes required by that Town , and is willing to do
the same thing for Lansing , with the idea that it might make planning a
great deal easier in the long run if you can get a feeling of what has
transpired in the town . One way to do this is to make it official and
bring the development out into the open - that is , what it might lead
11111 to , and what the problems might be . Feels that with these two men being
local , it is to their advantage and Lansing ' s to be able to work along
with them , and possibly generate a great deal of activity at the be -
ginning , and then give the Board more time to assess what has transpired
from time to time . After the Board interviews the other prospective
planners , this may come more strongly into focus than appears at the
moment .
Edmondson The University has confidence enough in this firm to grant them con-
tracts almost constantly - another one yesterday .
Miller Was interested in listening to what they had to say , and will be inter -
ested in hearing the others to see how they compare , and how they wish
to involve the Town . Somebody on the local level would be able to
understand the community better than an outsider coming in , and the
Board wishes to make the best possible plan for Lansing .
Circa Four or five years ago when we wanted to get some planning down in the
town , it was a matter of just a call to Niederkorn and he would come
out and spend time for no pay .
Ettinger I know two planners , and want to know some others before I form an
opinion. It is always best that a person be familiar with the town .
• Perhaps an outsider would come in with some fresh ideas and a different
interpretation .
Showacre I stress the personality . If the person can ' t get along in the com-
munity , you ' re not going to get to first base .
- 2 -
•
Ettinger Tom Niederkorn has the upper hand , because he knows how to get along
with people .
Barron How does he get along with people who will not cooperate ?
Edmondson I saw him recently in connection with a Collegetown planning meeting ,
with someone who was a heavy irritant , and saw Tom handle that situa-
tion beautifully .
Barron Each town is a different situation .
Ettinger He couldn ' t stay in this Town if he were not good at that .
•