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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1985-04-16MINUTES OF SPECIAL T0 1%V BOARD MSETTNG HELD TUESDAY, APRIL 16, 1985 AT x:3'0 P.M. JOINTLY WITH PLANNZP ;G BOARD. 't7ose Pxesent: Teresa Ella,rd Gordan Donald .cos eph Jack F L. C; E. Robinson, supervisor Sovocool, Councilinan VanBenschoten, Councilman Cummings, Councilman. G-raham, +ticUnci:l_mttin gerald, Attorney Also Pxesent ; Leland Cornelius, Gaz7 Wood, Planning Board Plembi rs George Totman, Cecil Twigg, Nancy Gst•rander•, Monica Carey, Verl Rankin Purpose of the meeting was to discuss Gleason gravel mine a; plication located oa Mark Street Extension in the Town of Groton, Robinson : Two representatives from DEC met with George Totman, Gaxy Wood,. Jack Fitzgerald, Colleen Pierson and myself-'to discuss who would be lead a ;ency fox the Gleason Gravel pit, If DEC is lead apncy, they have no ob j,,ti ons or restrictions, If Town is lead agency,-we can put restrictions sn it. This is called a neUa,t:ive declaration and he has to mine under our rules. DEC will put it into their regalatXons. Fitzgerald: Negative deClaration deans no impact to environnent . All Members* Discussed di#'.erence between negative and positive Robinson: Neighbors are not too happy and indicated some objections at Planning Board. hca�ring. 8011Le concerns were road, Pipeline, children and not able to have nev road, We should combine efforts of both Boards Frith DEC behind•, US . Ostrander : Is there a Written notice of JLead agenoy'? Harrin�yton said it should• be the DEC. Robinson: The town is the lead agency. Harxington does not w rk fo:r the DEC. He has his awn business and does related work, Totman; We "re here to decide our li3nzta.tions or xe triction, some of which we discussed the other day at our meeting with DEC, ....daylight hours, limit road, weight, bend, , .. . Robinson. DBC is aa+ tisfled ,ritt3 i.nfo:e ration provided by Roger. They krill issue permit once Town approves with restriction, It doesn't Day to haul grave in sn«lZ trucks. Large trucks will vibrate and disturb setup we now have. Can't hurt road•because it needs repalr. Can ' 't travel Lick Street because it woraJ.d ruin road. Would have to t avel east on Clark Street U�ctension to Salt Road to Route 222. (Tonnute.s continued by Margaret Palmer, Steno) 1 239 C. Pierson recorded the first twenty minutes of the meeting of the combined Boards to discuss 'the proposed Gravel. Mine on Clark St. Extension, Town of Groton; proposed by ROGER GLEASON, Robinson: They (gravel trucks) would go by Salt Rd. and not' be limited to size. To'tmana Take what road to the Salt Rd.? Robinson: Clark St. Extension. Ostrander: How long before the bridge would be settled? Cornelius: The bridge would 'be all right for now, the water line through there I don't know if it will ever be settled. Ostrander: We can't set a time 'limit; it has to be all the time? Robinson: One limitation you can set is how long you can have him do it. Cornelius: The waterline is the Village waterline. Totman: To go.this route would not be good for the waterline? Cornelius: Twigg4 You're not sure what the impact would be? Cornelius: The waterline around the Village has been busted by the trucks. Robinson: The other thing is the budget is set up for the Town to put a new road on Clark St., fixing of the first part of the road south of the bridge will be late in the summer. The Town will attempt -to put in a road somewhere around September. As far as that is concerned, if Roger wanted to work as much of as he could., he could work over the period of June, July and August. There is not a, great deal of gravel in there. Ostrander: We cant determine that now, it is up to him how much he wants to sell. Robinson: We can determine how long we let him go over the xoad. Totman: What you are saying, Corny, is if he gets permission to do this, once you start the new road you would like him to stop running trucks over it? Cornelius: If we put the road in, he'will be back on it next year. ' Totman: Would that work, next year, after the road has settled down? ® Graham: Was the road you are putting in designed for that type of travel? Cornelius: Not that heavy of 'a road. You people have to decide i ' what amount you want to put in to it. We plan to level and blacktop :i.t. ' Carey: Is -the road wide enough for two trucks? L4 V C� ((�� Cornelius: No. Totman: Was it widened on one side and not the other side? Cornelius: The road was broken off. We put some paving up one side this year. We will go back and put -the other side level to its Totman: When you do what you are doing this year, are you going to:.........it this.yeax? Cornelius: We did, not go onto his property (referring to Ashcroft from Public Hear minutes of 4/3/85). We just filled in the side of the road. Ostrander: At the Public Hearing, they said it was not wide enough. Cornelius: It is an 18 toot :road. We did not have funding for a laxger road. Totman: Is there any problems passing a snowplow? Fitzgerald: With the rare exception, Town roads have a 49.5 toot right -of -way. In reading the minutes of the public Hearing, the people were saying it was paved on one side and not the other. You have the right to right - of -way of 49.5 feet. Cornelius: We did not get off the shoulder of the road. Cummings: You are going to baacktop that this year? Cornelius: We were going to as far as the gravel bank. Cummings: It would be foolish to put in a new road, and then drive the heavy trucks over it. . Totman: One guideline could be that he wait until September to blacktop it, another guideline is he can use the road until the nsw road. goes in . Cornelius: It still might break up the new road with the heavy traffic. Graham: The short section of Salt rd., Peruville Rd., and Stevens Rd. that the salt trucks went across, was a mess. Robinson: It would be like that on Lick St. The thing is we have to think of riot just this year but next year and. the'year after that, or you can say to Roger he can't have it for only so long. You can say to him he can do it this year and next year and after that take only 1,000 yards out. He can do that without a permit, anyway. What you have to decide is what restrictions you are going to put on him. We don't know how much he wants to take out of there. Totman: He does not know either. Robinson: He can only go so far down if he is going to bring the soil. back over it to reclaim it. He figured 19 to 20 Feet. That is not a, lot of gravel. • • 1 2 4 1. Twigge It will depend on whether he has a market for it. Ostrander: Islas the* Town thinking of using any of this gravel? Robinson: No, we are through with it. Cummings: He is going to sell this to the County. Carey: That was what he W'as talking about at the meeting. Cummings: I would feel different if it was going to the County than a stranger hauling it out-of there. Totrnan: He indicated he would sell to the-County but he also ® indicated he would. open it to anybody*'that wanted. it. The county would probably be the biggest dealer. What road are they thinking of using? Cornelius: Smith Road from Spring St. to blest Groton Road. C.mnmings: A* thousand ton, only make 50 ton per load....... Cornelius: That is why he has to have a permit. If they raise 'it out of 'the swamp, that takes a lot of fill. Ostrander: When*are they going to be d it after you start the road use it. Cornelius: That is why we say leave it county would•be done before oing That? If he needs then the-County can't until September. The then Twigg: Is there one time of'year these trucks do more damage than another? Cornelius: Right now is the worst time. Twigg: You could put restrictions that they could not .run on it then. Cornelius: The original restrictions tirere from May to September. (referring to permit of 1984) . Cummins: If it'was really dry would that hurt the waterline? Cornelius: Maybe not, I don't know.--If it did bust it would wash the road out. *VanBenschoten* Aid they use duct tile, steel? Cornelius: Yes, It is steel. castings. It looks like it is good. Robinson: The thing we have to do now is decide what he can do. Ostrander: Restrict him from the time to finish in September or when they start to blacktop the road whichever came first. If they don't start paving until September and he has the capability, he can take out until September. Robinson: A lot'has to do with the weather. Ostrander: You can give him a deadline with leeway. What about the signs? Does he have to have signs that trucks use this route? 24.2 Robinson: They are not suppose to go the other way. He is going to have to take care of that. He is going 'to have to have a flagman out there because people coming up there, it is a blind spot where the trucks are coming out of. Definitely, they have to go the other way. Ostrander: What I am saying is to stop them from going that way he is going to have to post signs. If people go across the bridge who is responsible? If he told them and they stall. went across the bridge? Fitzgerald: The Bond for this is a question also. The DEC is requiring a Bond for reclamation of 'the land. If we are thinking of a Performance Bond, it is not a practical matter. You have to put up money, particularly if not in business. You have to show security. Totman: What Jack is saying is a Bond is easy-to get in most cases. The Bond with the DEC is-only a Bond to put the topsoil back on. A Bond to protect the pi-1.)e and the roads, which would be an indeterminate amount of money, you have to set a figure, which would be 25 to 50 thousand dollars. Most Bonding Companies, because Roger is not in a particular business, would require him to have the money in the bank to cover the bond if something went wrong. Robinson: What you really want to know now, is this has to be sensible. You don't want to deprive him of business. If you say daylight hours, Clark4St. to Salt Rd....... Totman: That is for this year, how about next year. Sovocool: Could make it for all three years. Cornelius: That would be all right. Totman: DEC in Syracuse indicated he could go on for five years. Listening to Cornelius, indication is maybe the first year it would be all gone. We might not hav to wo=j about the second year. If he agreed to day- light hours, we have talked to him about fencing it off at the driveway, have him travel to Clark St. to Salt Rd., this particular year he would have to stop by-September 1 and not start before May 1 and close October 1 next year. Twigg: The First of October you don't have frost trouble yet. The First of November would be all right after this year. Ostrander: You're not going to start 'before September (referring to cornelius)? Cornelius: I'm going to start work on this end (south side of bridge)-but he-is not going to come this way. Totman: For the year 1985, he can operate from May 1 to September 1, the year 1985 and 1987 he can operate from May 1 to November 1, with limit of operation to three years. Roger talked about three years, the people from DE'C said he could go five years according to them. • • 1 Robinson: Also require a flagman and also a sign that says 'truck crossing'. There are a lot of people coming around that curve, Fitzgerald: The sign should meet the DOT standards, Twigg: Whose responsibility is it to put in in? Ostrander: The Town buys the signs for "Slow Children ". Fitzgerald: I would think you would want him to put up the sign. Totman: (Briefing Verl Rankin on earlier discussion) There was a meeting Monday (4/15/85) morning with the DEC. They said the gravel mine was alright. We decided to take into consideration the things that carne out of the Public Hearing. I am mentioning them in this to protect the Town and to maintain a little control over the operation and to let people know we listened. to them and are doin&- something to the benefit of the public interest. We will require him to have a sign designating a 'truck entrance'. We will have another public informational meeting to answer their questions. Robinson: The 'Town Board is the :Lead Agency and we are suggesting to the DEC these stipulations and also we are putting restrictions on the operation. Totman: What I just read from the Town Board and the D= to the Planning Board., the Planning Board will act accordingly. Graham: After the Public Hearing, do you think the people will be satisfied with this? Totman: No, they won't be satisfied. Graham: You are ignoring them? Totmane The limitations is a compromise of the situation. In this case questions were brought up that if the information was there that night, this would not be a problem. Graham: Did you give them indication you were not turning your back on their concerns? That you are using what they said? Totman: What I did was tell, them that no matter what we did we would have another meeting and tell them what we were doing. Joint meeting of the Town Board. and. Planning Board was adjourned at 8:30 P.M. when the Planning Board held its regular meeting. ® M. A. Palmer Colleen D. Pierson Town Clerk N 243'