HomeMy WebLinkAbout1973-12-12 GROTON TOWN PLANNING BOARD
Meeting held at the
Town Hall , Groton , New York
Wednesday , December 12 , 1973
8 P-. M . - 9 : 45 P . M .
D . Payne - President* Others :
G . Totman - Vice -President* J . Bell*
Z . Kane - Secretary * J . Lockwood*
R . Gleason * L . Kelley'
D . Chase*
F . Scheffler*
* - Denotes those present .
D . Payne : Mr . Lockwood is here concerning his proposed minor subdivision and
here are his preliminary plans .
D . Chase : Where is this ?
D . Payne : On Old Stage Road , - -right ?
L . Kelley : Right .
D . Payne : Now Mr . Lockwood had previously sold this portion here on a land
contract .
F . Scheffler : Wait a minute , - -which side is that ?
Z . Kane : Right over there - - by my house .
F . Scheffler : 0 . K . Guess I know where that is now .
D . Payne : He is now in the process of selling this parcel , which would
be the second one .
D . Chase : Is that about 5 - 1 / 2 acres there ?
D . Payne : Yes , in fact here is a surveyor ' s map of the area he is in the
process of selling now , - - 5 . 7 acres .
F . Scheffler : Who does the other property belong to ?
Mr . Lockwood : All of the land is mine .
Z . Kane : Is that where the Woods live now ?
Mr . Lockwood : Right .
D . Payne : I understand this area has been approved by the Board of Health
for a sand filter ?
Mr . Kelley : Yes , it has .
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D . Payne : Where are you located on this ? Where is your house ?
D . Chase : How far up Old Stage Road is it from say the Salt Road down ?
Mr . Lockwood : Maybe a mile .
D . Chase : West of the Salt Road ?
Mr . Lockwood : No , East , - - I ' d say 3 /4 mile . Just a hair over 1 mile ; from
the Groton Fire Department ,
D . Chase : That would be on the right hand side of the road going East ?
Z . Kane : Right .
D . Payne : So you probably wouldn ' t have room for more lots there anyways ,
would you , - - so wouldn ' t need major subdivision regulations .
I don ' t think there ' s any question but that this would be a
minor subdivision . Does anybody have any questions ?
D . Chase : Are you planning to sell the property as is , or build on it and
sell it , or what ?
G . Totman : This is marked off now and Lee is going to buy just the land and
build his own house .
Mr . Kelley : Right . That ' s my surveyor ' s map there .
G . Totman : All you are doing is just buying the land from him and you are
going to build a house or put a trailer on there ?
Mr . Kelley : Not definite yet , probably would put a double trailer in but
am not sure .
G . Totman : I really don ' t see any big problem but we do have a job to do
and rules and guidelines to follow and have to ask some questions .
My only question is what do you really plan on doing with this
horseshoe piece of land you have left over ?
Mr . Lockwood : Keep it . Lee owns 5 acres but no sense monkeying up the property
lines so gave it to him , - - told him to go right back . So the
lines would be straight .
Mr . Kelley : There ' s a road to a gravel pit in here somewhere .
Some discussion was held on when this could be or might be
changed from a minor to a major subdivision by G . Totman ,
Mr . Kelley and others .
D . Chase : I don ' t have any more questions .
D . Payne : Do you feel any restrictions should be added to this ?
G . Totman : I don ' t .
D . Payne : Your section has been approved for sand filter by the Board of
Health .
G . Totman : Do you understand what happens if we give the preliminary
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G . Totman : approval tonight ? What the course is according to law ?
Mr . Kelley : No , I ' m afraid not .
D . Payne : Mr . Lockwood has a copy of the subdivision regulations .
Mr . Lockwood : Right .
G . Totman : It would be good to read them . As I understand it now , just
briefly , even though it ' s a minor subdivision we still have to
hold a public hearing on it .
Mr . Kelley : Don explained that to us .
D . Payne : The next consideration is going to be as soon as you have the rest
of the information for us , surveyor ' s map and so on , get in touch
with me .
Mr . Lockwood : You mean I have to have the whole thing surveyed ?
D . Payne : Yes , according to the regulations .
Mr . Lockwood : It doesn ' t seem hardly fair .
Z . Kane : It isn ' t anything we have any say in , - - it ' s just one of those
rules .
D . Payne : You mentioned this had been surveyed before , - -when ?
Mr . Kelley : The surveyor who did it has gone out of business since then and
sold all his rights .
Mr . Lockwood : He hasn ' t come up with them , has he ?
Mr . Kelley : No .
Some discussion was had on the advisability and reason for hav-
ing to have a survey done .
Mr . Lockwood : So I have to have this whole thing surveyed out , right ?
D . Payne : You have a copy of the subdivision regulations , right .
Mr . Lockwood : Yes .
D . Payne : 0 . K . Now on page 33 are the requirements that you will have
to have for our next meeting so we can come up with a decision
on this before the public hearing .
G . Totman : Other than these , I see no problem with this . Once we meet and
have the necessary papers can then hold the public hearing .
D . Payne : Do you know Ben Bucko , the Town Attorney?
Mr . Lockwood : Yes .
D . Payne : You might call him on this and see if there is any other way out .
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Mr . Lockwood : We ' ll see what we can do on it .
Mr . Kelley : It ' s listed on page ?
Z . Kane : Page 33 .
Mr . Kelley : 0 . K.
D . Payne : We also have your appication here and there ' s a $ 20 . 00 fee .
Mr . Lockwood : Do I pay that tonight ?
D . Payne : No , when you come in next time - - it ' s to help cover advertising
the public hearing in the paper and so on . You have to come up
with this within 6 months of the time you apply or we have to
start all over again .
G . Totman : It ' s a good idea to hold up your $ 20 . fee until you get the
papers needed . You might better hold up on it .
D . Payne : That ' s what I said . I have his application here for now .
Mr . Kelley : 0 . K.
G . Totman : Sorry we can ' t help you more .
D . Payne : As I said .you might check with Ben Bucko , - - I don ' t know if he
would be willing to accept a tax map .
Z . Kane : Or whether he could , - -he has no right to . Tell Mr . Bucko that
this part has been surveyed , - - see if that helps any , - - right ?
D . Chase : You ought to have a map anyways .
Z . Kane : Once you do it you have it for later on .
G . Totman : I ' d start reading on page 7 and then go on to page 33 . It ' s
quite simple .
Mr . Lockwood : When should I get this back to you ?
D . Payne : Let me know when you have the information and we can hold a
special meeting ._ _ S � sometime after the first of the year
would be fine .
Mr . Lockwood : Will try to get it to you within a week or two .
(At this point Mr . Lockwood and Mr . Kelley left the hall . )
D . Payne : Our next order of business is the possibility of a trailer park
coming into the Town of Groton . Dana Snell dropped the plans
off at my house last week for us to look at and give any comments :
we might have . Now I understand from Dana , and from Hicks DoVA
both , that these plans have already been accepted by the Town
Board .
Z . Kane : It said that in the Ithaca Journal , too .
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D . Payne : Now I don ' t know if this means they have been approved by the
Town Board - -
Z . Kane : It said they had referred them to the Planning Board .for review .
G . Totman : The Ithaca Journal said they were referring them to the Planning
Board . That ' s what I said to Don tonight , - -Don told me when I
came that Hicks and Dana told him they had already approved them
but gave them to us for comments . The rules say they go to us
and doesn ' t say the Town Board can approve or accept them so if
they have accepted them I feel we should send them right back
to them and say next time to send them to us first .
D . Chase : That ' s what we ' re here for .
D . Payne : We actually have no - - - - - - - - - - - - - as far as mobile homes are
concerned . Only thing we are involved in is that the plans
should come to us for them prior to approval .
D . Chase : Not a subdivision then , - -O . K.
D . Payne : And under the regulations have to reply within 30 days after we
receive them .
F . Scheffler : Seems you might get a little static from people as it ' s right in
West Groton .
Some discussion was held on this by all present .
G . Totman : You can correct me if I ' m wrong on this but the way I read this
- - go back to the zoning ordinance and under land use activities
- - 601 . 4 mobile home parks and sales - - it says permissible in an
agricultural zone under special conditions and if you go look
back under special conditions - -
F . Scheffler : West Groton isn ' t agricultural though , is it ?
G . Totman : Where is this park in connection with this right here ? Alright
that means that it ' s in a medium zone and under medium zone
you cannot put a trailer park in there so the whole thing is
out !
D . Payne : Where is this location , - -nothing on the map that shows where it
is ?
Some discussion was held on this by F . Scheffler , D . Payne , G .
Totman and others .
G . Totman : What we have to know is how many feet from here to where Ferris
lives :
F . Scheffler : See that creek right there .
Z . Kane : There ' s a creek right there .
G . Totman : Then he ' s inside of the creek ?
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y
F . Scheffler : Right .
G . Totman : Then it ' s out c = there ' s no problem .
Z . Kane : Except that the Town Board has already approved it . Why don ' t
you call Hicks ?
D . Payne : He isn ' t home tonight .
G . Totman : He is asking for a trailer park in West Groton on Cobb Street
and the way it looks here the area where he is asking for the
park is in a medium intensity zone - - Article 601 . 14 - - "Mobile
homes are only allowed in agricultural zone under special per -
mit . . . "
R . Gleason : But this would not be in an agricultural zone .
G . Totman : According to the map we have Ithat property is in a medium in -
tensity zone which doesn ' t allow trailer parks anyways0so there ' s
no question about it , - - it ' s illegal .
R . Gleason : He can take it to the Zoning Board of Appeals if he wants to .
D . Payne : Roger , you mentioned something you wanted to discuss tonight .
R . Gleason : I have a couple of lots up here on Clark Street Extension , - -
these two lots are surveyed .
Z . Kane : You have to have the whole thing surveyed . Don ' t say it isn ' t
fair because Mr . Lockwood already said that !
R . Gleason : No kidding ? Because if it ' s true I agree with him , - to hell
with it , - - I ' m not about to pay for that !
There is a space between the two lots and I might have a sur -
veyor fill in the space between .
Some discussion was held on what Mr . Gleason would need to
have surveyed by Mr . Gleason , D . Chase , D . Payne :AM others .
G . Totman : I think we ought to make a note that this is not defined clearly
enough under definitions and we should have a change put in there .
More discussion was held on subdivision regulations by
all present .
G . Totman : We talked with Mr . Lockwood and said he had to have this surveyed .
Right here Mr . Kelley has got a surveyor ' s map stating they
picked a property line from James William Lockwood ' s residen•.ce and
from deed - he has a licensed surveyor ' s map that this piece of
land is what he says it is . Then the technicallity:: comes up as to
whether Lockwood should have to give us a surveyor ' s map of the
other lot he sold and not of the whole property .
More discussion was held on this subject by all .
D . Payne : I ' m going to call Ben Bucko tomorrow and make a point of showing
this to him .
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( Zana Kane asked permission to leave early and D . Payne
( said it was alright . )
R . Gleason : When do you become a major subdivision , - -when you go over 4 ?
D . Payne : Yes .
G . Totman : 4 if we determine - -
D . Payne : While you are discussing that I ' ll go talk to Dana .
G . Totman : It says here - - "The Board . . . . . . Minor Subdivision . . . . . . "
so it depends on the rest of the land and whatever is sur -
rounding the land .
R . Gleason : Now the fee for a major subdivision is $ 20 . 00 ?
G . Totman : Don , are you going to see Ben Bucko ?
D . Payne : Yes .
G . Totman : About what ?
D . Payne : I ' m going to see him about what a tract means in subdivision
ordinance and . the other thing about the Lockwood deal if he
really has to have the whole thingmsurveyed .
( Don Chase made the motion that the meeting be adjourned
and Frank Scheffler seconded the motion , - - the motion carried . )
(Mr . Payne said he would advise everyone when the next
meeting would be but would hold off setting a date until
he heard further from Mr . Lockwood . )
Respectfully submitted ,
C
Jo ephine Bell
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