HomeMy WebLinkAbout2013-12-10 TOWN OF GROTON -MINUTES OF TOWN BOARD MEETING
TU ESDAY, DECEMBER 10, 2013 AT 7:30 PM
PUBLIC HEARING ON PROPOSED LOCAL LAW #2 FOR THE YEAR 2013 AT 8:00 PM
THE TOWN HALL, 101 CONGER BOULEVARD
Those present: Glenn E. Morey, Supervisor
Ellard L. Sovocool, Councilman
Donald F. Scheffler, Councilman
Richard B. Gamel, Councilman
Sheldon C. Clark, Councilman
Fran Casullo, Attorney for the Town
Also present: Lisa Maloney Hahn, Carole Daugherty, Kathleen Seible, Dan Carey,
Katherine wolf, Peter Clark, David Norte, Richard Dale, Kelly Smith,
Danny Klimaszewski, Dorothy Pomponio, Harvey Norte, Terry
Sharpe, Nancy Peacock, Diane Cummings, Joanne Senecal, Ted
Schiele,Scott Cole, Mark Robinson, Elizabeth Snyder, Elizabeth
Conger, Mary McGarry-Newman, Rachel Newman, Stefanie Books
Jacobs, Betty Yaichuk, Morris Peck, Greg Weiland, Sue Bennett, Joe
Bennett, Christine Hughes, Scott Hughes, Lori Gardner, Joan
Packard, Frank Heine, Katherine Clement, Sarah Bullock, Marion
Giamgattista, Alan Giambattista, Gailanne Mackenzie, David Neal,
Lynn Musgrove, Dyan Lombardi, Dianne Harrington, Pat Gaines,
John Gaines, Lisa Trust, Michael Morris, Robert Walpole, Jeff Toolan,
Lorna Apper, Faith Tyler, Lyle Raymond, Ruth Williams, Jennifer
Schwade, Michael Goldstein, Nick Babel, Karen Pastorello, Jean
Morey, Milton DeGraw, John Morey, Sigrid Connors, Waylon
DeGraw, Kay Blake, Beverly Oaksford-Moore, Doug Newman,
David Dematteo, Deidre Dematteo, Celia Morgan, Dan Cerretani,
Steve Breeds, Leslie Bode, Stephen DelCollo, Michael Searle,
Charles Rankin, Richard C. Case, Jr., April Scheffler.
MOVED by Supervisor Morey, seconded by Councilman Sovocool, to approve the
minutes of the November 7, 2013 hearing on the 2014 Fiscal Year Budget as presented.
Ayes - Sovocool, Scheffler, Gamel, Clark, Morey.
MOVED by Supervisor Morey, seconded by Councilman Scheffler, to approve the
minutes of the November 12, 2013 meeting as presented.
Ayes - Sovocool, Scheffler, Gamel, Clark, Morey
Claim Numbers 341-373 of the General Fund in the amount of $20,606.57 were
presented for audit.
MOVED by Councilman Gamel, seconded by Councilman Sovocool, to approve the
General Bills for payment.
Ayes - Sovocool, Scheffler, Gamel, Clark, Morey.
Town Board Minutes Page 2 December 10,2013
Claim Numbers 184-203 of the Highway Fund in the amount of $35,387.46 were
presented for audit.
MOVED by Councilman Clark, seconded by Councilman Gamel, to approve the
Highway Bills for payment.
Ayes - Sovocool, Scheffler, Gamel, Clark, Morey.
Monthly Reports:
Charles Rankin, Bookkeeper - Submitted monthly reports for the Board's review and
requested budget transfers.
RESOLUTION #13-076 - 2013 BUDGET TRANSFER
MOVED by Supervisor Morey, seconded by Councilman Gamel
Ayes - Sovocool, Scheffler, Gamel, Clark, Morey
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby approves the following 2013 Budget Transfer:
General Fund - Town Wide:
From: Contingency, Al990.4........................................$250.00
To: Town Clerk, Personal Services, A]410.1 .................$100.00
Control of Dogs, Deputy Clerk Salary, A3510.12.....$150.00
RESOLUTION #13-077 - 2013 BUDGET TRANSFER
MOVED by Supervisor Morey, seconded by Councilman Sovocool
Ayes - Sovocool, Scheffler, Gamel, Clark, Morey
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby approves the following 2013 Budget Transfer:
General Fund - Part Town:
From: Contingency, B 1990.4.....................................$370.00
To: Zoning, Deputy Clerk Salary, B8010.12.................150.00
Planning, Deputy Clerk Salary, B8020.12...............220.00
RESOLUTION #13-078 - 2013 BUDGET TRANSFER
MOVED by Supervisor Morey, seconded by Councilman Gamel
Ayes - Sovocool, Scheffler, Gamel, Clark, Morey
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby approves the following 2013 Budget Transfer:
General Fund - Town Wide:
From: Town Clerk, Contractual, Al410.4.......................$748.00
Town Clerk, Records Management, Al 410.42 .....1,307.00
To: Town Clerk, Equipment, Al410.2.......................$2,055.00
Town Board Minutes Page 3 December 10,2013
Gary Coats, Code/Fire Enforcement Officer - Was not present, but had submitted
monthly reports for the Board's review.
Richard C. Case, Jr., Highway Superintendent - The Highway Department is dedicated
to snow and ice removal right now. Drainage and culvert replacement is still taking
place when weather allows. The PM program, repairs, and snow equipment
preparation are happening daily in the shop. The New York State DOT inventory has
been checked and filed with the Department of Transportation. The Town of Groton
currently has under its jurisdiction,, 53.45 center-line miles of roadway. Tompkins County
has 106.9 center-line miles of roadway within the Town of Groton. Just for your
information, the Town plows roughly 40 miles of that under contract. The Highway
Department employees and the Village DPW employees received the safety training in
November that covers the PESH requirements for 2014 and I'd like to thank Chuck for
making those arrangements. Other than that, I wanted to, on Don's last meeting, thank
him for his support of the Highway Department. The employees have enjoyed your
input and your dedication as I know the park & recreation operations have. Your
interest and support has not gone unnoticed and is appreciated.
RESOLUTION #13-079 - APPROVE 2014 CONTRACT WITH THE
TOWN OF GROTON HIGHWAY EMPLOYEES ASSOCIATION
MOVED by Supervisor Morey, seconded by Councilman Sovocool
Ayes - Sovocool, Scheffler, Gamel, Clark, Morey
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby approves the 2014 contract with the Town of
Groton Highway Employees Association, and be it further
RESOLVED, that the Town of Groton Highway Employees be granted the following for
the year 2014: 50-cent raise in pay across the board.
April L. Scheffler, RMC, Town Clerk/Tax Collector - Submitted monthly reports for the
Board's review. I had my training last week for the new DEC hunting and fishing license
system. It looks a little different from what we are using now, but doesn't appear to be
too difficult to navigate. Their go-live date was December 16t" but it will probably be
more like December 26t". They plan a 5-day blackout for selling licenses so that state-
wide data can be transferred from the old program to the new one. License fees will
not change, however there will no longer be any combination licenses like sportsman or
super-sportsman. Instead, everything will be sold separately. This is because the
hunting licenses will still run from September to September as they do now, but fishing
licenses will be for 365 days from the time you buy it. There will still be a lifetime
sportsman license that includes the fishing, but it will be called something different. I will
be attending the State Clerks Assoc board of directors meeting and regional meeting
Sunday and Monday. I am chairing the clerk of the year committee for the association
this year as well as acting as assistant secretary and treasurer. Robin and I are gearing
up for tax season. I will not be able to be here for the first couple of days of collection
as my husband is having surgery, but I am confident that Robin can handle everything.
I feel very lucky to have such an efficient and capable deputy. I think that Gary feels
the same way. We have the TaxGlance link on the website. Anyone can now go
online to print off a bill or receipt. I've been contacted by NCourt for the credit card
payment part of it and they will be getting back to me this week to get that set up.
Town Board Minutes Page 4 December 10,2013
John Norman & A. D. Dawson.. Town Justices - Were not present but had submitted
monthly reports for the Board's review.
Councilman Donald Scheffler, Representative to Joint Youth Program - About 14 years
ago, the Groton Central School approached the Town and Village of Groton about
forming a joint recreation committee, creating more recreation opportunities in Groton
while alleviating certain legal issues. From this, came the Joint Recreation Committee,
of which I was chairperson for the first 13 years. We started with nothing and forged
ahead somewhat blindly, slowly turning it into the well-oiled machine it is today. I would
like to express my gratitude to the wonderful, unselfish group of dedicated volunteers
who have worked tirelessly to create and nurture this program. Never once have I
heard anyone take an ounce of credit for the successes or dish out blame for our
failures. It has always been a team effort and I publicly thank them all. Last year it
became apparent from the threats and promises that at some point I would no longer
be here, so I passed the chairperson's position to Sheila Ossit, who has taken the reins
with the help from the whole committee and is doing a great job. It makes me happy
to be surrounded by capable people who no longer need me. A special thanks to
Chuck Rankin, our Clerk/Treasurer, who has been a part of Groton Recreation from the
start. I don't know how he does it all, and with a straight face. Last, I'd like to thank
you, the taxpayers, and the Town Board for supporting the rec program. It is well worth
it.
Privilege of the Floor.-
Betty Conger - A member of the Village Board: "On behalf of the Joint Recreation
Committee of the Village and Town of Groton, I would like to thank outgoing
Councilman, Don Scheffler, for his many years of service to this Rec Committee. Don
has been with this program since its beginning and has helped it to grow and provide
many programs for the people of Groton, both young and old. We thank you very
much, Don."
Mike Goldstein - Brought up the Groton Republicans website saying that there were
statements on there that appeared to be coming from the Town Board and was not
actually the Town Board talking but a set of Republican politicians and wanted to bring
that to the Board's attention.
Jen Schwade - At the September Board Meeting it was said that the Ethics Board had
met and assumed that given today's agenda that they had ruled as to whether the
Board could vote on a moratorium and wanted to know if in the future when the Ethics
Board meets, as well as any results, would be publicized.
Attorney Casullo - Explained that when they met, it probably lasted about 20 minutes
and they went around the table and introduced themselves, exchanged phone
numbers, and talked about why they were there. Mr. Watkins was chosen as
chairperson and then they adjourned. It was nothing more than an introductory type
of meeting.
Ms. Schwade asked if they had met again. Attorney Casullo said no, and Supervisor
Morey said they hadn't because no written complaints had been received as required
by in the law. She then asked where the Board stood on a road use law to protect our
roads from possible damage from hydrofracking.
Town Board Minutes Page 5 December 10,2013
Supervisor Morey said that yes, in January, regardless of what happens tonight, there
will be work sessions on a comprehensive plan, a law concerning foreign materials
coming into the Town that was written in 1988, and the road preservation. When Ms.
Schwade asked if the work sessions would be open to the public, Mr. Morey said yes,
they have to be.
Jeff Toolan - Said there were some sort of verbal requests that provoked the initial
meeting of the Ethics Board and doesn't understand why there wasn't any follow
through with the Ethics Board.
Attorney Casullo - Said that late last year some people had concerns of potential
conflicts of interest and it was decided to form an Ethics Board. This was not just
because of the fracking issue. The State of New York wants towns and municipalities to
have these laws in place, so we thought this was the time to do it and then move
forward. He never anticipated that it would take as long as it did to pass it.
Supervisor Morey - Explained that they had looked at many other ethics laws from
across the State as well as samples from the State Comptroller and the Association of
Towns. It was then decided to write a law that would mirror the one that Tompkins
County was also working on at the same time. Our law finally got passed but
apparently Tompkins County has still not passed their law.
Jeff Toolan - Said he believed there was a verbal request for the Ethics Board to
investigate whether or not the Town Board could vote on the issue tonight and did not
understand why this was not done and wondered if the Town Board was in violation of
some Town or County ethics law because of this.
It was explained that the new ethics law requires a written request for a review and
none had been received, so no review as made.
Milton DeGraw - Has never had any trouble with the ethics of anyone on the Board until
he read Saturday's paper where it talked about the ethics board being formed and
some people wanted ethics. At the end of the article the new candidate said that her
ultimate goal was to ban fracking in Groton. Mr. DeGraw does not think it is ethical for
her to make up her mind before even getting on the board. He also questions the
ethics of the group complaining about ethics. He said he would like to have this person
investigated too.
Sue Bennett - Said that she didn't know what month it was but she verbally brought this
issue up with Rick Gamel at a meeting and was never told to put it in writing. There is a
difference between having an opinion versus someone having a financial possible gain
and that is an ethical problem and that was what she was accusing Rick Gamel of.
Councilman Gamel - Said he believed the issue was whether or not Board Members
had gas leases. He is not sure about all the leases, but his had run out well prior to the
issue coming up. The gas leases were actually released by the gas companies on
August 6, 2012, which is prior to Ms. Bennett even bringing that up. So, the issue of
whether it is ethical or not because of financial gain, it's been released from the gas
company, ran out long prior to that, and he has not been reproached on either his
home property or rental property.
Town Board Minutes Page 6 December 10,2013
Ms. Bennett- But it's still the same issue for all the Board Members.
Supervisor Morey- There are no active leases owned by any Board Members.
Ms. Bennett asked if anyone had seen the draft of the law. Attorney Casullo explained
that the law had been written, a public hearing held, and it was passed on July 9t". Ms.
Bennett then wondered why the Ethics Board met one time but didn't conduct business
and review this issue. It was explained that according to the new law, there needed to
be a written complaint.
Ms. Bennett then lodged a complaint, saying that work sessions were not being
published so that she could attend them and that minutes take a month to get online
because they aren't published until they are approved. Clerk Scheffler explained that
minutes have to be done within 2 weeks and are usually online when they get done.
Jeff Toolan wondered if the vote tonight, under the existing law is a violation of due
process.
Attorney Casullo explained that Ms. Bennett brought up the ethics question late last
year. That's when he thought the Town should just look at passing an ethics law,
because the State wanted us to, not just because of this issue, but because of all issues.
It took a lot longer than he anticipated, but in July the local law was passed, subject to
a public hearing. In August there was an introductory meeting for the members of the
Ethics Board. To date, it is his understanding that nobody has filed a complaint on any
issue with that board as required by the local law.
Supervisor Morey moved to open the Public Hearing, seconded by Councilman Gamel,
at 8:06 pm.
Ayes - Sovocool, Scheffler, Gamel, Clark, Morey
PUBLIC HEARING ON PROPOSED LOCAL LAW #2 FOR THE YEAR 2013
Clerk Scheffler read the Public Notice as duly published in the Town's legal paper, the
Groton Independent on November 27, 2013, and posted at the Town Hall, Groton Post
Office, McLean Post Office, and Town website.
No written comments had been received from the public.
Attorney Casullo - A moratorium is not saying you are banning fracking or allowing
fracking. The moratorium, as it's drafted, says for six months you're not going to allow
fracking as the Town further studies the issue. It sort of gives you a period in which you
can study the issue further and delegate it to the Code Enforcement Officer, Planning
Board, hear from the State. Hopefully, after that six month period you would come to
some conclusion as to what you want to do on this issue. It doesn't mean that you
have to keep it for the full six months if you want to act sooner. You could extend it for
a reasonable amount of time if you could show that you need more time. You would
need to do another local law to do that. I just want to make it clear that a moratorium
is not saying that fracking is out or fracking is in in the Town of Groton forever, it just
allows more of a period of time to study the issue further. we did this back in the 90's on
Town Board Minutes Page 7 December 10,2013
the adult uses issue. We had a moratorium, had all those studies, and then we
amended the Town's zoning code to reflect what we came up with.
After laying down some ground rules and limiting each speaker to three minutes,
Supervisor Morey opened the floor for public comment.
Waylon DeGraw - I hope everyone here actually keeps it to three minutes. I know last
time I was here, some people spoke for fifteen minutes and that was irresponsible.
Everyone needs their time to speak and after their time is up, they should respectfully
set down. The basis for this moratorium is not needed. There is no reason to have it. I
am sure almost everybody who had a lease in the Town of Groton, it has already run
out. They are not going to be drilling here in the next six months. Putting a moratorium
just opens up the chance that the Town of Groton might get sued by a gas company.
But they are not going to drill here, next year, the year after, the year after. They don't
have leases here at this time and are concentrating on other places. So, the point of
this moratorium is unnecessary. There is absolutely no belief that they are going to drill
here. I have spoken to people who actually work for gas companies and they say that
at this time they are not going to be drilling in the Town of Groton. So, why do we need
this moratorium and have the chance of a resident or the Town of Groton being sued.
It's not worth it. We have plenty of time to do research and we have to do research
that's unbiased. Everybody here is most likely biased in one way or another, saying for
or against it. We need unbiased research to come in here and show us the true affects.
I can do a poll on a hundred people and depending on what their view is, it could be
heavily one way or another. You need research done by unbiased people. Again,
tonight is based on the moratorium, not on fracking, and I'd appreciate it if people
have an issue with fracking, wait until a meeting on that comes up. Right now this is
about the moratorium and that's what it's about. It's not about fracking, whether I'm
pro or against it. I have my opinion, but I'm holding that to me, because right now is
not the time or place.
Faith Tyler - This is the third time I've spoken to you on the fracking issue and I am going
to speak on it briefly just because I think that's what the majority of the people are here
for tonight. Can the crowd behind me raise their hands if they don't want fracking in
Groton? Okay, so I would just like to keep everybody, everyone on the Board to realize
that there's a really big turnout in support of the moratorium and I feel like the way that
this hearing and vote has come about is very shady, right before Kelly is going to take
her seat and yes, she is adamantly against fracking in Groton.
Supervisor Morey- I think Kelly should say her opinion, not you.
Faith Tyler - Okay. But I think that it would be the wrong decision to ignore so many
town folk who are taking time away from their families and lives to come here and set
and tell you how they feel on this issue. So, please do vote the moratorium. I hope they
never do frack in Groton, but I don't know why they would ever want to sue the Town if
they have no interest in fracking here in the first place.
Sigrid Connors - 1'm very worried about the health and safety of my family, my children
and my grandchildren if fracking were to occur in the Town. Earlier this week, the New
York State Health Commissioner, Dr. Shaw, said there is currently no timeline yet for the
release of a study about fracking's environmental impact, which was supposed to be
out this spring. He went on to say that he is still not ready to say whether it's safe for
Town Board Minutes Page 8 December 10,2013
New Yorkers. So, if the New York State Health Commissioner is not ready to give a
statement about the health and safety, I think six months is not long enough.
Lori Gardner - I wanted to say before, I'm very confused about this whole reason, we
waited and waited for an Ethics Committee because they were supposed to determine
whether certain people had a conflict of interest and needed to recuse themselves
before we could vote. They met, they introduced themselves, they elected a chair,
and all of a sudden we're here voting. I don't see it, I don't understand it. You talk a lot
about property rights. It's obvious though that your concerns are only for the minority
who would exert their usage over onto their neighbor's property. When someone
makes noise that crosses over onto their neighbor's property, they are infringing onto
the property rights of their neighbor. When someone brings in gas drillers who have in
many other cases, poisoned the groundwater with arsenic, benzene, methane, radon,
and other unwholesome compounds, they are infringing on their neighbor's right to
enjoy their own pure water. When the gas drillers bring in convoys of large trucks that
create congestion, noise and tear up roads, they are infringing on their neighbor's
property rights. When the gas companies run drills all day and all night, the noise and
lights from the drilling infringes upon their neighbor's property rights. Even if I do not
choose to lease my property, if my neighbor does, the gas company can drill sideways
to access gas under my land. If enough of my neighbors lease land they can
actually....(tape cassette turned over)... How can you claim to respect property rights
when you refuse to protect the rights of landowners to enjoy the peace, quiet and
clean water of their own property? That is the most intrinsic of property rights. There are
two honorable ways you could have preceded with this vote. One would have been
to vote before the election and run on your records. By not voting before the elections,
Mr. Sovocool and Scheffler were able to infer that they would vote against fracking if
the need arose. The second option is to wait until after the election and let the newly
elected board decide the issue. Since it was a hotly contested election, and this was a
major issue, this could be a way to give the people a voice. This would have been a
very honorable reason to hold the vote a month or so until the election. You have
chosen to take the most dishonorable of paths, the one that totally disrespects the
voters and the choice that they made on November 5t". The voters said quite clearly
they do not want fracking in Groton. When the elected officials make a major vote like
this, they should have to answer to the voters for their decision. It is disgraceful to take
this vote with someone who is removed from office and no longer has to answer to the
voters. Shame on you. Shame on you for waiting until you were in a seriously
challenged election to take any action at all. Shame on you for refusing to vote, and
go on record before the election, and shame on you for this underhanded way of
negating the will of the electorate. You may still think that you're little gods that serve
for life and you don't need to be concerned with the Groton voters. The past election
should have taught you that you're wrong and you can all be replaced. Show some
respect for the people you are supposed to serve. Hold this vote with the new board in
January.
Milton DeGraw - Don't take that to heart. It sounded a little rough but it don't mean
nothing. To start with, if they'd do their homework and research and most of the
people that know about fracking already know this, that they can use propane gas.
There's no chemicals involved, so there's no chemicals to pollute your water. If you
want to check your water, you ought to go home and check it because you've
probably got things in it that you don't even know of. All the water is surface water.
You're well water is not very deep. Let the State of New York do this job. That's what
Town Board Minutes Page 9 December 10,2013
you elected them for. They're dragging their feet. This is a dead issue. You're
candidate, when she talked to me on the phone before she hung up on me, told me it
was a dead issue in New York State. Since it is, what are we doing here? We shouldn't
even be here tonight. If you let the State of New York make up their mind, they are
going to tell you how you're going to drill, if you're going to drill, and when. They are
going to start in the Southern Tier if they ever get invited back. They probably won't
come back because they p ---ed them off so much. I had a lease. I enjoyed that
money. I spent it in this community. That helps create jobs. If I'd got another lease, I'd
spend some more in this community to help create jobs. If you think about your
children and grandchildren, that's what you should be thinking about, are they going
to have a job in New York State where they can have a home? Ten or twelve dollars
and hour isn't going to buy them a house. That's reality. New York State is damn near
broke. Pennsylvania was but they came around. New York State needs industry.
There's a lot of good people that it's a waste of time to go to college, but they're a
good person in a factory, but we need industry. You're not going to have industry
unless you get taxes down. The taxes are too high. I've seen my taxes go up a lot over
the years. There's a lot of people, it says 800 that signed in favor of a moratorium, how
many of those 800 are actually taxpayers? You want to tell me what to do with my
land, help me pay my mortgage, pay may taxes? I'll take you're money. Let the State
of New York do its job. Vote this thing down and vote it down long enough to give New
York time. I don't care if it takes a year or two. This isn't going to be an issue. We don't
need to study the roads, we can't even take care of the roads we have.
Michael Shonk - My first question to all of you who are opposing fracking, what do you
know about it? Have you ever worked any oil fields? Do you heat your homes with
natural gas? Do you put natural gas in cars as an alternative fuel to gasoline? It's a
cleaner burning thing than gasoline is. Your school that your kids attend is heated with
natural gas. Milt just made the point also that jobs will be created. The gas companies
will pay taxes to lower your property taxes. They will also pay taxes to fix your roads and
other numerous taxes. So, this whole thing about a moratorium, it shouldn't even be
discussed, because every other county around here, everybody, we've been talking
about this for years. I just don't understand.
Kathy Wolf - I signed the petition for the moratorium and I pay taxes. I'm in favor of the
moratorium. Everybody in Tompkins County has voted on it and approved a
moratorium or a ban and we're the only one who hasn't. In terms of New York State,
waiting for them to act, there's a lot of people who don't live where I live that are in
New York State, and yes we do have representatives, but counties and towns are
taking action to protect their little parts of New York State and I think that's a legitimate
action. We don't have to just say well, they're going to make up their mind in Albany
and we'll just do whatever they tell us to. Natural gas is cleaner than oil. You're still
burning carbon. You're still putting greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. We're
going the wrong direction on this, we should be going toward renewables. There's
quiet a bit of research that shows that solar power could actually produce a whole lot
more energy, even in this kind of climate, than it has been given credit for. So, those
are things that ought to be looked at hard because we aren't going to be here any
longer than the sun is. The sun is ultimately our powerhouse. It's the one that put all
that coal and stuff down there and that's really where we ought to be looking and
there's other renewables as well. In terms of, every day, every month you hear about
accidents, spills, disasters, environmental poisoning associated with extraction
technologies. Why do we really think fracking would be any different? I mean they're
Town Board Minutes Page 10 December 10,2013
taking hydrocarbons out of the ocean, they transport them through pipelines and boats
and every single one of them has been responsible for environmental disasters.
Fracking is a crime against our water. It poisons it and then it buries it. Even though
we're blessed with some snow out there and a lot of water, water is a precious,
precious resource and we shouldn't be just poisoning it and putting it underground, we
should be doing our best to keep it clean and keep it available. It's what keeps us
alive. There are thousands and thousands and millions of people who lived in the world
without love. Not one has lived without water. In terms of property rights, there are the
property rights of those who don't want it and that the affect of the people who want
drilling on their property can't be confined to their property. These people have been
here over and over and over again to ask you guys to just say no and a six month
moratorium isn't an unreasonable request for the people of Groton to request of you.
Jeff Toolan - As a young person who has been all over the world, I've worked on these
issues all over the world and in Brazil which has a major natural gas industry and powers
30% of its fleet. Unlike the northeastern United States, they've learned their lesson,
they're keeping their gas for domestic usage. The reality is the majority of this gas
would be condensed and shipped overseas, which by the way makes it have a much
worse carbon footprint than most other hydrocarbons, including coal. That's not why
I'm here. I've tried to bring industry back to Groton. Unfortunately when you've got
states like Nevada and North Carolina offering 80% tax credits and with our tax
environment and our cost of doing business, the reality is that industry is probably not
coming back and to be honest, good riddance because Smith Corona already
poisoned our water once and my dad had to clean it up and it took more than ten
years to get the heavy metals out of the Owasco Inlet. So, not on my watch is what I'm
going to say as a young person who remembers that struggle and remembers what it
was like to have the stigma of poison water in Groton growing up and seeing a giant
pumping facility next to Owasco Inlet that's filtering out heavy metals that were just
dumped directly into the water supply. But more importantly, all the most recent
claims, and now that the Cornell University, Anthony Angasea (spelling?), and by the
way he's in the top five concrete engineers on the planet, he says based on industry
data alone 5-10% of the new wells will fail. Within ten years, 30% of the wells will fail.
That's based on industry data based on the top engineer for the industry. So, having to
reiterate my point, industry probably isn't going to come back unless all of a sudden we
reinvent an entirely new economic situation for New York, which isn't going to happen
in my lifetime. The two industries we'll have in the future is high-end agriculture and
tourism, neither of which will benefit from fracking. Coming to Groton and knowing that
I have to bring people here from around the world, one of the reasons they like it here is
it's serene, we have clean water, we have lakes, we have waterfalls, we have organic
agricultural. I see the Alnye trucks going by and I don't have a problem with them.
That's where the future of Groton is, to really farm the land, to not extract it in a one-
time use thing, destroy the water table. Ask the Pennsylvania farmers if they can get
their water back? How much does it cost to farm when you have to import water? It's
impossible. We lose our farming, we're down to only tourism and a lot of the tourism is
based on farming, on the cheese, on the clean environment, on the produce. Try to
produce produce with poisoned water. So, based on industry data, based on the top
scientific thinkers in the world, based on the economic reality of New York, our future is
in tourism and agriculture, neither of which involve hydrofracking.
Dyan Lombardi - I'm not really worried about the oil companies suing us because I think
to them we are less than nothing in the scheme of things. I'm worried about the other
Town Board Minutes Page 11 December 10,2013
towns and the counties suing us when the trucks have to go through their land to get to
our land and they pollute the other towns and counties, so I think we just have to move
cautiously.
Joan Packard - I'd like to commend the Board for finally taking up the issue of
hydrofracking after two years. We members of the Groton Resource Awareness
Coalition have been pressing the Board to consider this issue for a very long time. I am
disappointed however in the length of time the Board is giving itself to study this issue. A
six-month moratorium, I feel is just not enough time to study hydrofracking. I've read the
proposed local law and I feel that six months is way to short of time to study the impacts
of this technology including, which is mentioned in the local law, studying the potential
of groundwater pollution, studying the impacts of the demand for commercial waste
water facilities, studying the impact of local roads, studying the environmental impact
on water quality, agricultural uses and wetlands, and studying the potential for
sediment and erosion, and the use of natural occurring radioactive materials, studying
the sources of surface water, private ponds, ground water, municipal water
contamination, and let alone the liability issues involved. This is going to take a lot of
your time just consulting with experts to figure a lot of this stuff out, plus the need, that
you've mentioned in your local law, the coordination with the Town Board meeting with
the Zoning Board of Appeals and Planning Board. I just don't see how you can possibly
accomplish this in six months. So, I am urging you to at least do a moratorium for a
year. I don't know how you can do all of this in six months. It just boggles my mind.
David Norte - Just a few things I've noticed. I know a lot of the people here and I'm
uncomfortable with the tension that this is creating. I don't know how it's going to be
resolved. Ultimately I think you guys (meaning those against fracking) are going to win,
because if I was a business owner and I owned a natural gas company, there's no way
I'd want to do business here. So, you folks will win, but what's going to happen? One
town over, through good intentions, and I know people have good intentions, but what
the Town of Dryden has done, they have completely devalued private property rights.
I'm not going to speak to whether fracking is good, I don't know, I clean carpet, I'm not
a fracker. I think that any business, I don't trust any business until I know, so I don't have
a vested interest in saying fracking is great. My concern is as a private property owner,
with people's best of intentions, there's going to be a lot of unintended consequences
with new laws. One person spoke about, I'm glad industry is going to leave. Really?
Come on, that's ridiculous. I try to run a business. We can't be anti-business. We treat
every business skeptical just like anybody else. I just don't want the Board to protect
stuff so much, you know to protect the roads, you've got heavy trucks driving up and
down these roads all day long. What's the unintended consequence of passing a law
to keep fracking trucks out when you've got Alnye out there? Do you know what
happens when an Alnye truck spills? I'm a volunteer fire fighter and do you know what
DEC does when milk spills into the river? It's poison, it kills fish. There are unintended
consequences for over-reacting. We're asking way too much of our fellow citizens to
try to make a decision on this. This is a State decision, but they're not going to come
anyways. I wish everybody would just take a deep breath. There's no way it's going to
be profitable to do business here. You've made it this way. Let's move on to
something more important.
Dan Carey - I'm opposed to a moratorium on hydraulic fracking in the Town of Groton.
New York State still has a moratorium on high volume fracking and it's been in place for
five years. I think we should wait and see what they decide. The State has also initiated
Town Board Minutes Page 12 December 10,2013
a study on health affects of fracking. The results of this study are unknown at this point.
The Town of Dryden court case has not been settled yet. So, what's the rush to enact a
local law when there's so much that hasn't been determined yet? Tompkins County
has updated their road use regulations and they're in place for town planning boards
to use. The Groton Town Highway Department has been collecting road use
information for roads in Groton for, I think, a little over a year or two years. So, a
moratorium on road use is not necessary. That's an ongoing thing that the County
initiated. A moratorium on fracking in the Town of Groton, would allow an inquiry of the
comprehensive plan for the Town, which took more than three years to update. Our
zoning regulations and site plan regulations have been well thought out in this updated
document and I don't think they need further review. The CEAs or Critical
Environmental Areas could be a consequence to landowners if this moratorium is
enacted. The New York DEC, the EPA, and the USDA are all well aware of the location
of sensitive lands in the Town of Groton, so I say there is no further need of the Town of
Groton investigating private property at this time or anytime. I commend the Town
Board for taking a measured approach to this sensitive issue and hope as a board you
continue to be cognizant of how this issue affects private property rights. I want to be
able to make my own decisions about my property and make my own choices about
whether to lease my land.
Ted Scheile - I urge you to vote in favor of the six-month moratorium. The law that you
are working on now is a six-month moratorium and that's all, but I think that it's
important that you do take this time to not only look at hydrofracking on its own but
also in the context of what is an industry here, which is agriculture and dairy. I think we
all know that there is a growing dairy industry in New York State with the yogurt plants all
up and down the Mohawk Valley and out into Madison County and out through
Niagara. We need to understand how that is going to benefit the Town of Groton. I
think it's important to look for the long view. It is true that individual property rights are
important. There are people who have been living in this town many, many years
longer than I have. I've been here for twelve years, but my view and I've put
considerable effort into the property that I live on, and my view is to look at this in terms
of the entire community and how this is going to impact the entire community.
Therefore we look at it for the sustainable practice for the long term. What we have
coming in as well, as far as vegetable gardens and truck farms and the dairy industry
and how that's improving also. So, I hope that you look at all these things during the
moratorium and I hope that you will in fact vote for the moratorium.
Mike Morris - I'd just like to address some of the issues that some of the people have
brought up who are opposed to a moratorium. Number one, a moratorium is not a
ban, it's just a study period, blah, blah, blah. All of us who are opposed to fracking and
want a moratorium, we all have property rights too. I have to say, it's insulting to read in
the paper comments that we're special interests. It's B.S., the idea that the majority of
the people in the Town of Groton are a special interest group. We're constituents, we
live here, and we have property rights. If not, if we're just going to say anything goes on
property, then all right, we'll form a concert company and we'll plop down a
Woodstock next to every single person with a 500 acre lease that's complaining that
they can't do what they want on their property. Give me a break. We all have
constraints. That's what being part of society is about. And I want to thank you for
including in this law something about that if it's contrary to the comprehensive plan
then it won't fly. Because that's case closed, because the comprehensive plan, and I
hope everyone here has taken time to read, it reads, it would be more d--ning to the
Town Board Minutes Page 13 December 10,2013
fracking effort than the biggest website that the anti-frackers have with all of that
information. If you follow the Town comprehensive plan, you cannot allow fracking in
the Town of Groton. And there's a poll at the end of that comprehensive plan that 90%
of the people are opposed to truck traffic, they're opposed to noise, yadda, yadda,
yadda, they want to retain the rural character of the community, so bring it on, you're
going to have a H--- of a fight on your hands if you okay fracking even after a
moratorium or whatever. You are going to have a fight and unless you change the
comprehensive plan it doesn't fly and to change the comprehensive plan you're going
to have a big fight on your hands and I believe it can trigger something called a
permissive referendum and then we'll all get to vote and then we'll have a vote in the
Town of Groton. Put it out there. You guys could call for a referendum and settle
everything in the Town so that people aren't opposed, la, la, la, just have a vote, have
a referendum next election cycle and say thumbs up, thumbs down on fracking. I
know it's a representative government, we've all elected you, blah, blah, blah, but you
know, good luck.
Liz Snyder - I would hope you would vote for the moratorium. I think it's the thing to do.
It will give us time. It would give you time to really look at things and make any changes
that we need. And as Mike said, the comprehensive plan is the complete opposite of
anything that fracking does. If you vote it down it will be a mistake partly because any
economic boom, any income to the Town of Groton, any businesses or individuals, any
of those booms will not offset the very really and likely pollution of our land, water and
air. Here and in neighboring areas that do have moratoriums, it could cause economic
and health impacts to all the people living in this area. It could also be a mistake
because to me it means that you have not thoroughly researched and used all the
available resources that have been available to you. You haven't listened to some of
the people who have really gone through this process. I know some of you visited
Pennsylvania but you haven't listened and really talked to the people who have dealt
with the gas companies, the pollution, the tactics they pull, it is really frightening. And
they are big and they can weasel out of a lot of things that you can't imagine. It would
also be a mistake because I think you would have been wasting very extra unnecessary
time creating the Ethics Board that could have been speeded up. You could have
used the Tompkins County Ethics Board. Those are things and months that went by
when safeguards could have been put in place or at least been looked at to get ready
for a moratorium. Another mistake is not considering your constituents' opinions. I know
you have listened to us at meetings, but I don't think you've really listened. I think that
the numbers on the petition for a ban or moratorium have not been really seriously
considered. And seeing that a new Board Member who stated right from the start her
position on a moratorium or a ban, and she was elected. To me, that shows something
right there. I think we have a really good group here in Groton. I think we all want the
same thing, a safe place to live, a clean place to live, and I just think you need more
time to consider this and more time to research.
Sue Bennett - I'm for a moratorium and one of my main reasons is that New York State
has said that any township that doesn't have a moratorium or ban, if once New York
State approves it, they could approve it tomorrow for all we know, they can come to
Groton. They can come to any town that doesn't have a moratorium or ban. So, that's
my main reason to start with. It bothers me because I've known Dan all my life and I've
known Milt all my life but that I have farm land across from me. I like it a horse farm. If I
thought that they would put a fracking oil rig there, I would be here every minute of
your waking day because I don't want it to affect my life. What people do on their
Town Board Minutes Page 14 December 10,2013
property, I believe they should have the right to do what they want to do, but not
infringe on others.
David Neal - A lot of people on both sides of this issue have spoken regarding property
rights and I want to address that also. I think we're all in favor of property rights. I did
sign the petition against the moratorium and I pay plenty of taxes. My wife and I pay
plenty of taxes, plenty of taxes. And we support lots of local businesses. Dave Norte,
you are a terrific carpet cleaner. Regardless of how this comes out, we will continue to
call you as long as we have a cat, and that's true. But seriously, if you check
statements from CFCU, Tompkins Trust, that fracking itself has a negative effect on
property values. I suppose we could debate that, but it seems to be quite commonly
accepted. It's tougher to get a mortgage; it's tougher to sell your property especially in
an area as beautiful as ours. That's why people come here. It's also for many of us a
significant portion of our retirement and while nobody wants to inhibit any of our
neighbors from capitalizing on what they earn or what they have. If fracking were to
happen here, you would essentially be going to all of your neighbors who do not have
wells and asking them to contribute their own hard earned and hard won cash. It
would diminish property values of all of us. We, several years ago, invested a fair
amount to restore an old farm building on our property and we rent it out short term to
people who are visiting kids in college, people who come to the area to enjoy natural
resources. One of them wrote us a note and I won't but you through the whole thing,
but I'll just say they really enjoyed their stay in Groton and the amenities of the
businesses downtown, "we deliberately pick Groton for our vacation because of its
proximity to Owasco Inlet, one of Doug's all-time favorite streams for catch and release
fly fishing. This is a unique stream that combines beautiful scenery, ample public
access, embank easements, and a remarkable population of trout. Although he has
fished many famous trout streams throughout the US and abroad, Doug is already
plotting a return trip to Groton with additional fly fishing buddies. Based on signs we
saw, we gather that the citizens of Groton are facing a difficult decision about the
development of natural gas. We hope that when you ponder the options for the future
of your community, you will remember and protect the beautiful asset in your back
yard, the Owasco Inlet. That's what brought us to Groton and it will attract us and other
visitors again and again." And these folks made it quite clear that were we to have
fracking, they would almost certainly not return. And this is a small business and it's also
part of our retirement. It would have a negative effect and if you should proceed with
the vote this evening, think about the effect that you will have on your neighbors. They
all know each other, whatever side of this issue we are on. It will have effects that are
known.
Leslie Bode - Please support the moratorium. A lot of folks have commented that it's
unnecessary. A lot have people have commented that the industry won't come here
anyway. I'm glad that Sue brought up that if we don't have a moratorium and they do
tomorrow say it's open, bring it on, the industry could very well show up here and be
here. I think that we all know that the reason people believe that they are not going to
come here is because we have our guard up and we shouldn't be lulled into believing
that we can sit back now and say, okay, we've done our part. You never stop
guarding what you love. That's important. I'm from Texas, where I grew up. I know a
lot of people who are in the oil industry, family and friends. It's an ugly business. Yes,
money gets made, but I would hope that we are smarter than shortsighted money right
now. I agree with the folks that talked about taking the long view. The people around
us that allow fracking to come into their towns, they're going to get rich, filthy rich, filthy
Town Board Minutes Page 15 December 10,2013
being the key word there. They are going to get rich right away, but once the industry
is done with them, it's over. There's no industry that can come back in and clean up
the mess that was made and that industry doesn't care about you. I think someone on
the side of fracking actually said that, that the industry cares nothing about us and that
is very true. So, I would hope that we're smarter and that we do stay vigilant against
this fracking industry. The other thing that I wanted to say too is that in Texas, the entire
state us pretty much, like run, West Texas, South Texas and I've just been reading in the
Texas Monthly about a county in South Texas, a couple of things, in just the past year
traffic accidents have increase 300%. 1 just had a little girl, she's ten weeks old today.
We planted pear trees, we have grape vines, raspberry bushes. We plan to like raise a
family here in this area and it's not just about my property rights and the dirty water and
environment that would be ruined, but I want my little girl to be able to run around
outside and not be fearful of huge semi-trucks going 80 miles an hour down the road
and it happens in a 35 mile an hour speed zone, that happens, the stories are out there.
There isn't any reason that we should believe that our area will be different, that the
industry will respect us more, so yeah, take the time. The moratorium, you may think it's
unnecessary, but there's no reason to not take that time to wait and see and keep
getting information from other people who have let their guard down and let the
industry into their backyards. We're all in this together and so although we all want to
make money. I'm all for like having money to support your family and to retire, but only
a handful of us are going to benefit from this industry and a lot of us are going to suffer.
John Gaines - I thought since the County Attorney mentioned my name a couple of
times, I should show may face as well. Thirty seven years ago my wife and I moved our
family to 866 Cobb Street. We did that knowing we were moving into an active
agricultural community. We knew what that meant. That meant tractors up and down
the road; that meant heavy equipment; that meant noise at various times; but those
folks were making a living and that was fine with us. It sometimes meant mud in the
road during tilling time and harvest time. It also meant manure in the road when it was
time to spread. That's all part of living in a farming community, no complaints
whatsoever. Twenty years ago we had a choice to make because our kids wanted to
buy our house. We built property across the road and built a brand new house at 869
Cobb. We did that again, knowing that we were still in an active agricultural
community and we liked that. Things have changed in 30 years. Now the equipment is
much bigger and sometimes a combine takes up the whole street, so you pull into a
driveway and let them go by. The hay bales are much bigger than they used to be, no
more little kicker bales, they're big round bales, and when they move them on the road
you better get out of the way. That's fine. In West Groton and other parts of the Town,
you know, that the other thing that's happened recently are tractor trailer loads of
liquid manure. In our case, on Cobb Street, they're moving in from Lansing and Genoa.
Because some of our land has gone out of production by the farmers who have owned
it for generations, it is now rented to people who really want that land. So, it's a four-
way stop at Cobb and West Groton and it's not unusual at my house, which is about
800 feet away, to hear them hit their jake-brakes, to hear them down-shift as they hit
that four-way stop and then start up again as they go, and sometimes you smell the
aroma if the winds coming from the south because they are all spreading south of us.
Ted smells it more than we do. But it's okay. That's all part of living in an agricultural
community. But I think, as I hear those jake-brakes go, because when a truck is really
slowing down you can feel that jake-brake shutter the road. It's almost like a kid with
their big base in their car, going by. What about that fracking fluid? How many
truckloads, if we're going to have a well pad in West Groton, how many truckloads will
Town Board Minutes Page 16 December 10,2013
it take to get that well in place? There will be a lot of land clearing to start with unless
they pick land that's already under agricultural production and that's real easy. You
don't have to cut trees or anything, but that land goes out of production and all the
land around it. How many truckloads are going to come in to make that four-way stop,
to make that turn to go wherever they are going to go? How many truckloads are
going to go out with who knows what's in it to go someplace to get that waste water
treated? I have no idea. I hope that if you do this moratorium, those are the kinds of
questions that you folks will have for whatever committee you appoint, whether it's the
Planning Board or whoever, bring back to you with that hard information. It's not hard
to get. All you have to do is go to Pennsylvania and count. I don't know. My guess is
nobody at this table knows right now how many truckloads we're talking about. As the
gentleman from McLean said, we have accidents now with milk trucks and that's not
just milk of course, it's usually milk and diesel fuel, and the diesel is probably worse than
the milk. We turned one over down here in Groton how many years ago was that and
all went towards the Inlet, right? The first responders had to come out. They knew what
they were dealing with, milk, whole milk and diesel fuel. If you turn over a fracking truck
right in front of the Groton Hotel, what first responder is going to have any idea what is
coming out of that truck, but they're the first ones there, right? The driver isn't even
going to know, we've seen that in other places. But we've seen that happen right in
the middle of Village, so those are some of my concerns. I'm concerned, as I've told
you two times when I spoke to you before, actually, when I spoke to you before I only
had one great-grandchild and now I have two that live right across the street from me.
The kind of decisions you folks are going to make on fracking, not just the moratorium,
but ultimately, are going to affect those two great-grandchildren. To me, it's real
simple as a great-grandparent. I've got the safety of those great-grandchildren on one
hand and I've got money on the other. You can talk about property rights, you can
talk about all the scientific data, safety, anything you want, but it comes down to me,
personal choice, just me, the safety of my grandchildren. I don't think a moratorium is
enough, I'm for a total, permanent, outright ban on fracking, but that's not what you're
discussing tonight so I would urge you to vote for the moratorium. Let's find out what
we need to know to make the final decision.
Greg Wieland - I've been here several times. You've heard my arguments and you've
heard those who have spoken today. So, I am not going to run through my concerns
although industrialization, health, all the things people have talked about are my
concerns. I would prefer a ban as well, but I am going to urge you to pass this
moratorium. We need the six months. If they don't come and we have a moratorium,
oh great, okay, we haven't lost anything, nobody is going to sue us because we have a
moratorium. If it changes and we don't have a moratorium and the State says go
ahead, we're in trouble. I'm telling you, I'm going to be here every day, as that other
woman was, and I'm going to force you to the facts that are happening. As far as the
argument, well, you know they're never going to come. A lot of people have that
opinion that they're not going to come there, that they're not even going to come for
the Utica, but I can tell you, and this is going to sound like an exaggeration but I sort of
feel this way about it, that there are a lot of smart, educated people who said Hitler
would never invade Poland, and he did, and I have to tell you it's going to kind of feel
like that when those guys come in with their trucks it's going to feel like we've been
invaded by an army and we're going to have no rights, we're gonna have nothing. So
I urge you to at least do a moratorium and I hope in the future we get a ban.
Town Board Minutes Page 17 December 10,2013
Stephanie Brooks-Jacobs - I just want to remind you of four facts. Number one, there is
no moratorium at the State level in New York. There are permits sitting on desks but the
permits have not been issued, but there is no moratorium. Number two, all farming is
subject to DEC regulations where it deals with ground water and the DEC regulations
have to comply with the Federal EPA. Fracking is exempt from the Clean Water Act.
Number three, people in Pennsylvania who lease their land and then have issues about
the way the gas company behaved on their land were legally prevented from being
allowed to enter areas that were on their own land. The gas companies, they really lost
their property rights, they had no legal right to object to anything, but also they
couldn't even be there. The gas companies got injunctions against them. The fourth
one is royalties paid to landowners have been....(end of tape & start of new
tape)...who lease their land and have to suffer through all the bad consequences,
don't really make any money out of it.
Jen Schwade - I would urge the Board to vote for the moratorium on fracking. I'm glad
to hear that you have a plan in place to work on some road use protection laws.
They're not in place yet and I'd like them to be in place if fracking were to come to the
area. I hope that fracking doesn't come but that's not something we have control
over. What we have control over is what we can do to protect our town if it does and I
would urge the Board to enact the moratorium to give you time to figure this out. I
understand that legislation takes time, and planning takes time, and these things take
time, and it is a complicated issue, and that's what the moratorium is for.
Dorothy Pomponio - I want talk to about insurance coverage and hydrofracking. On
July 9, 2012, Lindsay Wickam of the New York Farm Bureau, Region 4 Field Advisor,
talked about how the Farm Bureau views shale gas drilling. The Farm Bureau is
unapologetically pro-drilling. The risks of hydrofracking is very low, said Mr. Wickam, it's
the drilling that's risky. He mentioned surface spills, casing problems, and human errors.
Three days later, on July 12, 2012, Nationwide Mutual Insurance Company, a company
that covers many farmers, announced that its policies do not cover damage related to
fracking. The company's commercial and personal insurance policies (quote) were not
designed to cover that sort of risk said Nationwide Spokeswoman, Nancy Smeltzer (?).
She also said that the risks involved in fracking operations (quote) are too great to
ignore and are now prohibited for general liability, commercial auto, motor truck
cargo, auto physical damage, and public auto coverage. That prohibition applied to
workers who haul water to and from the drill sites, people who operate the equipment
on the well sites, contractors involved in fracking operations, and landowners who
leased their property for drilling. Why should the Groton Town Board be concerned if
fracking operations are quote, not insurable? The question is this, what are the risks and
hidden costs the Town Board is assuming on behalf of Town of Groton taxpayers when it
allows unexamined, the drilling industry to come into our Town? Does the Town have
adequate insurance coverage for any potential damages that might occur on the
roads and to our water supplies? Show us the Town's insurance policy for liability so that
we, the taxpayers can assess and verify that we are adequately protected. Further, I'd
like to add that drilling companies do not insure landowners or the public against
damages. You could verify this by contacting those very drilling companies who have
offered leases in the Town of Groton. Ask to see their insurance policies, lest the Town of
Groton be dragged into covering damages as a third party by some aggrieved
neighbor of a leaseholder. This is just one issue that a temporary moratorium could
enable you to examine.
Town Board Minutes Page 18 December 10,2013
Nick Babel - I have one question about the specific law.
Supervisor Morey- We're not going to answer any questions. You can ask me questions
later. This is for the paper right?
Nick Babel - Well, the question, it would be nice for everybody to know....
Supervisor Morey- Okay, go ahead.
Nick Babel - Section 5, is there any specific property in Groton that would work for?
Supervisor Morey - I think that means that anything the Code doesn't cover, it would be
an exception.
Nick Babel - Okay, and the other question is why was six months chosen as the amount
of time?
Supervisor Morey - I thought it was New York State Law that it couldn't go beyond six
months.
Attorney Casullo - No. The courts try to say that the longer you try to impose a
moratorium, which is a restriction on property, the tougher it's going to be if it gets
challenged. So, we stayed with the six months at the outset, because we know that is
going to stand up to any challenge. We didn't want to go longer into a year or two
years because the longer you go, the more challengable it becomes. Some have
been challenged in the past for being too long.
Mary McGarry-Newman - We have a certified organic farm that is our livelihood. That's
all we do. We work 16, 17, 18-hour days during the season bringing food to our
neighbors. The idea that some people are talking about, you know, that jobs would be
brought to this area, well it's kind of stupid because you're getting rid of a bunch of the
jobs that are already here, that people are trying to create. The gentleman was talking
about agricultural businesses and tourism, that is something that doesn't hurt our
neighbor's land; it doesn't hurt our neighbor's air or water. These are things that bring
people here to spend money. So, to do stuff that's going to destroy that, there's no
logic there whatsoever. You guys have been hearing information for years now.
You've actually got plenty of information to make a ban because we can all see this is
a stupid thing. You can look at the states where drilling has occurred, fracking has
occurred, and you can see the nightmare that is left behind. You've heard all the stuff
before, you've heard all the stuff for two plus years and all of a sudden you're in a hurry
to do the moratorium. Well, that's great, but I'm kind of confused, like, we just had an
election and have a new person coming on, and suddenly you're in a big rush to make
a ruling here when the last whole year we've been hearing Board of Ethics, Board of
Ethics, we can't talk about hydrofracking right now because we're talking about Board
of Ethics and suddenly let's drop that on the floor and talk about moratorium. It's a little
bit confusing and kind of curious, the timing on all this. Do you have anything to share
about that? I think we're all sort of wondering, the timing on this.
Supervisor Morey- Well, the vote was four to one to bring the moratorium to a vote?
Town Board Minutes Page 19 December 10,2013
Mary McGarry-Newman - There was a vote last month? Whether to bring it to a vote?
So, what happened to all the flurry about the Board of Ethics?
Supervisor Morey- I think you're confusing two different subjects.
Mary McGarry-Newman - Well, that was why we couldn't talk about it for all this time.
There's not a confusion on my part. Like we couldn't talk about fracking all this time
because we're dealing with the Board of Ethics, and suddenly we're able to talk about
fracking and the Board of Ethics is like, where'd it go? And if there's a board, who's on
it, who's electing them, who's appointing them, whatever it is. Do you have people on
this board already?
Supervisor Morey- It was a Public Hearing, you had to be here to know who's on it.
Mary McGarry-Newman - So, are there people appointed to this Board?
Supervisor Morey- Yes.
Mary McGarry-Newman - And who are they? I mean, who appointed them?
Supervisor Morey- The Board appointed them.
Mary McGarry-Newman - You guys appointed the people who are judging something
that ethically you couldn't do?
Supervisor Morey - John Gaines was asked to be on the Board and he decided he
didn't want to be part of it. We asked Dan Carey from Lick Street, Jack Miller from
Stevens Road, John McLean from Brown Road, John Watkins, from Elm Street, who is the
chair, and I am the representative from the Town Board. I don't know what to say.
Mary McGarry-Newman - So, what's the criteria for being on the Board of Ethics?
Supervisor Morey- The people who wanted to be on it.
Mary McGarry-Newman - I'd be on it. No one asked me to be on it.
Supervisor Morey- I wouldn't ask you.
Mary McGarry-Newman - I know, why? Because you're asking people who feel the
same way you do.
Supervisor Morey - Well, these are community leaders who have been here for many,
many years, and so I don't understand why, I'd rather have someone who has been
here for a long time.
Mary McGarry-Newman - That's nice! (Uproar from crowd).
Supervisor Morey - Do you have a problem with Dan Carey? Do you have a problem
with Jack Miller who was the director of emergency services at Tompkins County for
many years? John McLean, does anybody have a problem with these people?
Town Board Minutes Page 20 December 10,2013
Joanne Cipola-Dennis - I'm your neighbor in Dryden. Mary, Doug and Rachael, Mary
just stood up here and volunteered to be on an Ethics Board and you said you had a
number of other people and that she hadn't been here long enough. I find that....
Supervisor Morey- No, I said.....
Joanne Cipola-Dennis - Sir, let me speak, and then you can speak after my three
minutes are up. Now, when a volunteer from your community says I am willing to take
my time out of my day to give it to my community in service, you don't say, no thanks,
but we're trying to find somebody else to replace you. I don't know how insulting
you're going to be to this audience tonight but it's about going to be over pretty soon.
Mr. Scheffler, I've come in here for nearly three years now, and when I first met you we
talked about water contamination and at that point I respected you because I thought
that you were going to be a man who could look at information provided by your
constituents and look at it objectively. I visited your brother and his organic farm last
year and what a wonderful place he has, what a healthy human being he and his wife
are, and to learn after I visited his home that he had leased his land for gas
development, which would then, your family would prosper from your decision on this
board about fracking. I found that really disturbing and it is why, the sole reason why
you have been voted out of this community after years of service. And furthermore, in
our history there was a man who made a wonderful community service and he made a
mistake in colluding with Britain and in the end we remember him 200 years later plus as
Benedict Arnold. Kelly, thank you for running. We appreciate the service that you are
going to provide, an objective, protective service to this community which they have
waited for for three years. In surrounding communities vote after vote have booted
those people who did not care enough to listen to their constituents and protect them
against an infamous industry that ruins people, and we know that for a fact. If you vote
tonight, I have to say there will be more than a few people in here to remind you every
single month of what you have done. Do the right thing and do what you're sworn to
do which is provide public service. Please, gentlemen, do that tonight.
Councilman Scheffler - Can I respond to that? I'd just love to. Number one, you keep
saying you're my neighbor. I used to own a house across the road from where you built
your house. You never once waved to me. My neighbors wave to me. That's number
one. Number two, you keep saying you're a neighbor of Groton. You're three to four
miles from the closest Groton line. Number three, you build a house maybe three
quarters of a mile from the Cornell nuclear waste dump and you don't seem to be
worried about that, but you're worried about something that may or may not happen
in the Town of Groton.
Steve Breeds - As I spoke before, I have children, how many of us have children here?
How, many? Come on. How many stand to profit from fracking? (Addressing the
crowd).
Supervisor Morey- Speak to the Board, please.
Steve Breeds - I'll speak to everybody. Everybody's here. And you will listen, just like the
young lady over here said. I don't mean to be rude, but this is our time. Our children
should come before any dollar, at any cost. As far as the first responders, Dave, I hate
to point this out to you, in order to get to that log book and find out what's in that truck
that spills, you have to get to that little book. How many more gallons are spilt before
Town Board Minutes Page 21 December 10,2013
you get to the book and then you know what's in the water? I know, I'm a trucker.
How many of us have made that trip to Pennsylvania, like I asked last time? Have you
seen the carnage? Did you go out there?
Councilman Gamel - Actually sat with the Town of Wysox.....
Steve Breeds - Wysox, yeah, been there many times.
Councilman Gamel - ...yup, spoke with business people, spoke with well owners, spoke
with industry, spoke with an entire forum of people, so yes.
Steve Breeds - Did you go out into the woods, where they actually were.
Councilman Gamel - Yes, we did.
Councilman Clark- Spent some time on a drilling rig, a lot of time.
Steve Breeds - Good, I'm glad to see we're actually starting to look at this stuff. I was
down there when it was all happening. I've been driving for fifteen years, been down
there, it was bad. I saw the accidents, I saw the carnage, and like I said, I saw the spills.
I also saw what it does to the roads. I'm also an active hunter. I saw what it does to the
wildlife. And that's just what you see, it's not counting what you don't see. Like I said, I
live on Spring Street. Water runs under my house. I could go buy bottled water all day
and that water that travels under my house will contaminate my house and my children
and that's just the run-off. Any questions about that, or is that not true? That's what I
thought. Everybody here needs to remember this moratorium is bull. We need to ban
fracking. End of subject.
Mike Goldstein - One quick reminder about the legal status of moratoria in New York
State, just to keep in mind, the Town of Avon, last spring had a one-year moratorium
that was challenged by the oil company. They successfully defended their moratorium.
In fact the judge specifically said that the Town of Avon was not using unreasonable
police powers to regulate zoning. The judge's decision said that the Town was acting
reasonably in temporarily halting development while they considered zoning changes.
So, there really are nice legal precedent now for establishing moratoria with the right
kind of basis, as yours does, and so I think legally the coast is quite clear to pass a local
moratorium.
There being no further public comments, Supervisor Morey moved to close the Public
Hearing and return to Regular Session, seconded by Councilman Sovocool, at 9:25 pm.
Ayes - Sovocool, Scheffler, Gamel, Clark, Morey
Supervisor Morey - Okay, let's discuss it. We've heard a lot of issues tonight. I think I'll
go first. I think it's time we take a breath. We can't keep on fighting this back and
forth. The moratorium is not against an issue or for an issue, but will give us time to work
on the policies of the Town of Groton. If the moratorium comes, we're going to update
the Comprehensive Plan, not the building code, the building code is already done;
road preservation law; and I want to update a 1988 law that we lovingly call "Melody's
Law" after Melody Scheffler and in section 8 of the law it says that the transfer of waste
generated from any other source but the Town is not allowed in the Town. Lewie, do
you want to talk?
Town Board Minutes Page 22 December 10,2013
Councilman Sovocool - No, I don't want to talk.
Councilman Scheffler - I want to clear something up. I take offense that we haven't
been studying things, and learning things, and we don't know things about heavy
metal poisoning and whatever. I have what I call home-school PHD in radiation
poisoning and heavy metal poisoning, where it comes from and how. It's kind of
personal and it's really nobody's d--n business why I know this stuff or why I learned it,
but I have doctors who ask questions, so stop telling me I'm stupid. I wrote something
up so I don't make a mistake: I have studied the pros and cons of hydrofracking. I
read stacks of periodicals and opinion pieces from Central Park to Texas to the
Dakotas. I have made three personal junkets to Pennsylvania to get the facts, not the
opinions of one side or the other. I have met with Penn. DOT, highway superintendants,
businessmen, real estate companies, service companies, health department personnel,
school superintendants, better business bureaus, bankers and farmers. Not all
comments were positive. I have toured sites, actively looked for problems, and taken
photographs. I was given a mountain of road preservation material.
I have studied the economy and the need for energy both locally and world wide. The
sad truth is that one torpedo fired in the Straits of Hormuz will cause our lights to go out
in weeks. No one likes nuclear, wind turbines, coal, alcohol or wood. Solar is a fun
experiment that doesn't work, even with the government's help, or maybe it doesn't
work because of the government's help. Hydrogen is great, but requires more energy
to produce, compress and transport than it provides.
Currently there are no gas leases in the Town of Groton that I know of. The gas
companies have, on their own, cleared the easements from the deeds in the Tompkins
County Courthouse. This would normally be the landowner's responsibility. I take this as
a slap - they're out of here for good. Any drilling activity would be preceded by
months of landsmen descending in herds to sign leases. We would have ample time to
react if needed. By then the whole dynamic may change and any law would be
circumvented anyway.
A question that hasn't been answered yet is the issue of private property rights. It is
widely acknowledged that a landowner owns the minerals and mineral rights to his
property. They can buy, sell, or lease them. If the government takes that right of
property for the public good, then the landowners must be compensated the value.
This is my interpretation, and has yet to be tried in the courts. To protect our Town from
lawsuits and bankruptcy, I am in favor of waiting to see the decisions from the Town of
Dryden lawsuit.
The greatest fear I have is not the pollution, noise, dust, or class envy caused by
hydrofracking, but of the infringement of Constitutional, civil, and human rights that a
moratorium or ban would create. It creates the precedent of a government slowly
picking away at individual property rights and freedoms. Think it won't happen? Look
around. In some places you can't have a motor home, boat, or camper stored in your
yard. You can't buy a big soda, decent popcorn or trans-fats. You can't smoke a
cigarette, play music, or have a party without a permit. You can't voice your opinion
without being labeled a hater of something. You can only worship freely if your church
is BATF approved. There's talk of banning cows and cow manure from Ag Districts
because they don't fit some people's definition of rural character. Plastic bags will be
illegal soon. The only things left uncontrolled are meth labs, crack houses and pot
Town Board Minutes Page 23 December 10,2013
farms. Not too long ago another government slowly picked away at good people's
freedoms. The lost their homes, businesses, jobs, guns, books, property and even their
children. It ended with a train ride to the gas chambers. Not in my Town. Not on my
watch. It stops here. It stops now. Them's my thoughts, and I'm stickin' to `em.
Councilman Gamel - I'd like to start by to answer a question, or to refute a statement.
New York State currently does have a moratorium/ban on high volume horizontal
hydraulic fracturing. This is according to a representative I talked to this afternoon from
the Public Affairs Office at the New York State Department of Environmental
Conservation's Bureau of Public Outreach Division. This moratorium/ban is in place for
the entire State of New York and at this point has no expiration date or estimated time
for the impact study to be complete or for the State ban to be lifted. That was directly
from them. With that said, I believe a six-month moratorium in the Town of Groton
would not only be redundant but also an unnecessary restriction on the rights of
landowners of this Town. I do believe that legitimate concerns may need to be
addressed if and when the State finishes their environmental impact study, and only if
they subsequently lift the existing ban and allow fracking to take place throughout the
State.
Councilman Clark - I wrote some thoughts down: I and my fellow Board Members have
listened to all sides for over two years. A few facts that have been brought to my
attention, to set the record straight: A statement that the Town Board isn't maintaining
Main Street in Groton. The fact is it is the sole job of the New York State DOT to take
care of Main Street in Groton. A statement that the sidewalks in Groton needed
attention, that we weren't attending to that; it is the sole job of the Village of Groton to
maintain the sidewalks. A statement was brought out that the Town roads needed
repairs and attention to snowplowing, when in fact many Town residents have shared
with me their praise of how well our Town Highway crews take care of our roads as well
as maintaining our equipment in-house as we consistently update our equipment. The
call for the Town Board to put a moratorium on fracking when in fact it is a mute point,
when, as Rick just stated, New York State doesn't allow drilling. Why does the Town
Board need to put more needless regulations out?
Supervisor Morey- Okay let's call for a vote.
RESOLUTION #13-080 - VOTE ON LOCAL LAW #2 FOR THE YEAR 2013 FOR A MORATORIUM
ON HYDRAULIC FRACTURING AND/OR HYDROFRACKI NG
MOVED by Supervisor Morey, seconded by Councilman Sovocool
Ayes - Sovocool, Morey
Nays -Scheffler, Gamel, Clark
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby does not enact Local Law #2 for the Year 2013
entitled A Local Law for a Moratorium on Hydraulic Fracturing and/or Hydrofracking in
the Town of Groton.
Town Board Minutes Page 24 December 10,2013
Announcements:
➢ Planning Board, December 19, 7:30 pm
➢ Zoning Board of Appeals, December 25, 7:00pm
➢ Youth Commission awarded 2 grants..............
People in the crowd were making an enormous amount of noise, talking, getting up
milling around, shouting things at the Board, interfering with the Board's ability to
continue the meeting.
Councilman Gamel - Folks, can we finish our meeting please?
Supervisor Morey- I have some great news here.
A few people moved to the hallway but some persisted to mill about in the Board Room
continuing their noisy interference.
Councilman Gamel - Go ahead, Glenn.
Supervisor Morey - The Youth Commission was awarded two grants this past month. The
first on was $2,150.00 from the United Way.....
People where still making inappropriate noise, several people had come into the
bench area, and someone had approached the bench speaking rudely and jabbing
her finger at Councilman Scheffler.
Councilman Scheffler- Excuse me, he has the floor.
Supervisor Morey - ......for summer lunch program. The other is a $9,480.00 grant from
the Community Foundation for a youth employment program.
Additional Announcements:
➢ Christmas Tree Lighting, Friday, December 13, at 6:00pm next to Express Mart
➢ Home for the Holidays, December 14
➢ Photo and Art Show, December 14, 10:00pm to 4:00pm, at the Town Hall, as
part of Home for the Holidays.
Supervisor Morey - I want to read this to Don. When a person gets involved in the
community, he wants to give something back to that community. When a person takes
on the election process, the community he serves becomes passion to make his
community a better place to live for everyone. For the past 18 years, you have taken
this commitment while running your own company with a dedication, honesty and
integrity. I have learned to trust your judgment and respect your opinions. Someone is
going to fill your position, but they will never replace you. The Town Board and the
community appreciate your service and want to thank you. I personally want to thank
you for being Deputy Supervisor, for being there when I needed you to do payroll, to
overseeing meetings I couldn't make it to, but I also want to especially thank you for
being very supportive while I was in New York City with my son, Ben. So, God bless you,
and good luck to you.
Applause followed.
Town Board Minutes Page 25 December 10,2013
Councilman Scheffler - A few years ago I was struggling with the word "ethics." It
seemed to me to be an oxymoron. Ethics change over time and even in the present
are sometimes situational and subject to "who's watching" and "will I get caught?"
One night I sat up straight in bed and I heard the words, "the word is integrity, look it
up." I thought it strange that the world's most perfect woman was still asleep and
hadn't heard it. I figured it was a dream and went back to sleep. Several days later, I
got out our little abridged dictionary, one written for school kids, because we're
cheapskates. The word integrity is described as an absolute truth, using the words
honesty and probity. So, I looked up honesty, described as integrity and probity.
Likewise, probity was described as honesty and integrity. Integrity is a level of truth,
honesty and consistency that is almost indescribable.
If you spend the money to buy a decent dictionary, next to the word integrity is a group
photo of this board, these guys, along with Rick Case, April, John, Dewey, chuck, Fran,
and Vicki, our employees, and a host of others before them.
It has been my privilege to serve the public for so many years with this outstanding
group of people. It is very humbling to be trusted with this honor.
Groton has always been a town of families, friends, neighbors, and neighborhoods. A
town where "everyone knows your name." We've no doubt always had our
differences, but they were dealt with individually and with respect, dignity, tolerance,
and understanding. In recent years, I've noticed an increase in selfishness ad
disassociation among neighbors. It seems like people just can't get along. They
complain to the Town Board about their neighbors' house, garage, and driveway, their
music, cows, manure, signs, apartments, gas wells, gas leases, dirt bikes, and four-
wheelers. Folks have forgotten that even with differences, it's still your neighbors that
will wake you in the night and pull you out of a burning house. (Clerk Scheffler finally
closes door to the hallway in an effort to muffle the noise in the hallway.) It's your
neighbors that will meet the school bus and watch your kids when you've had an
accident. Instead of baking a pie, buying a quart of ice cream and walking down the
driveway to discuss their differences and work out a solution, everyone whines to the
Town Board to do it for them. God knows we've tried, but you can't legislate
friendliness, common courtesy, respect and decency. These traits have to be taught
and learned at home, church and school.
Visit your neighbors. Have a picnic. Go to a concert or football game. Take dinner to
someone. Mow their lawn, help them with their roof, listen to their music, invite them to
church, send a card, accept their help or invitation when it comes your way, be aware
of your surroundings. This is what will make Groton great again, not more laws,
regulations, grants or bitterness. To put all this in perspective, I would like to close with a
quote from the 2nd Century satirist, Juvenal, "Yesterday we were the village ruffians.
Today we are the arbiters over life and death. Tomorrow we will be keepers of the
public toilet." May God bless you all beyond your wildest dreams.
MOVED by Councilman Scheffler, seconded by Councilman Gamel, to adjourn at the
meeting at 9:38 pm. Unanimous.
April L. Scheffler, RMC
Town Clerk