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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1972-10-04 GROTON TOWN PLANNING BOARD MEETING Held in the Town Hall Wednesday , October 4th , 1972 8 # 10 P . M . - 9 * 25 P . M . G . Totman , Chairman^ F . Scheffler Z . Kane ` R . Cotanch D . Payne^ J . Bell%, R . Gleason* * - Denotes those present . Mr . Totman passed out copies of the minutes of the last Planning Board meeting held September 13 , 1972 to all present . G . Totman : You have read the minutes of the last meeting . Are there any errors or corrections ? R . Gleason : I move the minutes be approved as written . D . Payne : I second the motion . The motion was carried . G . Totman : I think , then , for the record I would say that I presented the names for the replacement member needed for our Planning Board ( the ones in our minutes here ) to the Town Board on Monday night prior to their meeting and , to my knowledge , they didn ' t act on it . I didn ' t see anything in the paper or Hicks didn ' t say anything when he called me after the meeting . He did in - dicate they would pick out a couple of names and if the first didn ' t accept they would go to the second one but I was not at their meeting so really don ' t know what action they took on them . The Town Board did hold junkyard public hearings on Tuesday night of last week . To my knowledge 4 out of the 5 agreed to comply with the ordinance reluctantly . One , Reed Bixler , violently opposed it and said he wouldn ' t comply and would move out of the Town first . Anyway the Town Board is doing something about the junkyards and are also going to follow it up and go to other people with junk cars parked in their yards in violation and by resolution set aside the date of October 12 to decide what to do with the junkyard owners that were at the public hearings held last week , - -whether they should accept their proposals and what action they will take on the one who said he wouldn ' t comply and that meeting is a week from tomorrow night . I asked Hicks to have a check made out for the New York State Planning Federation meeting for $ 30 to cover Rogers and my registration fees and send it out so that we could be registered . After the Town Board meeting he called me up and said they decided they would not pay the registration fee in advance and that we should pay it ourselves and then turn in a bill later and also - 1 - that they voted , because of their shortage of funds , to only send one person to this planning conference from each board , - one from our board , one from Zoning Board of Appeals and the Town Attorney so I called Roger to see which of us should go and he decided he wasn ' t too sure of his farming activities for those dates and maybe he might if he saw his way clear . Personally I don ' t understand their action because they set money aside for this , always do at the beginning of each year , and it should be in the budget for the year and if they expect members on the boards to be active and participate in things and learn more about planning they should encourage this sort of thing . I think at their budget planning meeting I ' ll suggest they take this into consideration for next year ' s budget . Now , to my knowledge , there are a couple of things coming us that will concern our planning board . 1 . There has been somebody approach the Village of Groton for permission to put in a trailer park . Z . Kane : In the Village ? G . Totman : The land they own is half in the village and half in the town . It ' s on Cayuga Street . As you go out Cayuga Street towards Locke it ' s up over the hill and back of where Dutch VanBen - Schoten ' s barn is , - - somewheres in there . R . Gleason : He ' s just outside the Village . They must be right up there and that must be , - - G . Totman : They have petitioned the village for permission to put in a trailer park . Z . Kane : Is there enough space for a trailer park up there ? G . Totman : Their present proposal is just to do it within the village and didn ' t indicate what they plan to do with the rest of the land they own but the person who told me ( Village Planning Board member called me ) felt we should be aware of it because once they got approval from the village might come to the town so that ' s some - thing for us to be thinking about . 2 . The other thing is I was contacted by a man called George Wall who lives on the Cortland -McLean Road in the Cortland County part of it and he called to inquire about getting permission from the planning board to put in a subdivision on the corner of Champlin Road and Old Stage Road . When he called me his main concern was the 100 ft . frontage on each parcel of land that he sells . He already has approval from the Tompkins County Health Department for drainage . I took a copy of our Town of Groton Subdivision Regulations over to him and he called me with the idea that we could approve it tonight so I told him over the phone before I could give him any commitment at all our planning board would have to have a meeting and they would give the commitment not me personally and I also told him to look at the regulations and read them before he submits 2 - his application . He was a little bit aghast as to why I felt that way and I explained that he might change his mind about having to comply with the different things in the subdivision regulations and I haven ' t heard from him since except that this afternoon Palmer Real Estate called my home and wanted to talk to me and my wife told them I was at work and they said they were a little confused about the rules and regulations so she informed them I had given Mr . Wall a copy of them and they said O . K . they wouldn ' t phone me at work but would be meeting with Mr . Wall to go over them with him . I ' m sure Cortland County Real Estate Agents are well aware of subdivision regulations . Mr . Wall has this land and enough financing to put one home on it at the present time . He plans to put up one as soon as he gets approval and then he will sell it and use that money for collateral to put up the next home . His main question was the 100 ft . frontage , - - is it feasible and will it pass . I suggested he first read the rules and regulations and then bring his application to us and we would go over it . Z . Kane : That lot isn ' t very big , - -you said 6 to 8 houses ? G . Totman : Yes . Some discussion was held on this by R . Gleason , Z . Kane and others . D . Payne : Did he give you any indication as to the total size of the lot , George? G . Totman : No , he didn ' t . R . Gleason : I don ' t like a subdivision like that , - - that ' s too darned close . G . Totman : So there ' s a possibility if Mr . Wall submits the application , - - I think I should ask should we call a special meeting to hear it because he sounded very sincere and if we wait until the next regular meeting , which would be the first Wednesday in November , it would be too late for him to do anything about it . Z . Kane : We have to have those ten days in there and we aren ' t going to be pushed . G . Totman : I think it would be a good idea if he submits the application and we get together and have an informal meeting at one of our homes and discuss this thing thoroughly and then have a regularly called meeting and have him there . Z . Kane : He has to submit it to me , doesn ' t he ? G . Totman : Yes , - as secretary . G . Totman : How many acres do you think are involved ? Z . Kane : I measured it and it ' s 1 / 10th ofla mile each way . D . Payne : It ' s square , right ? - 3 - More discussion was held on this and what the developer ' s plan for roads and placement of the houses might be by all present . G . Totman : I ' m not going to get involved at all , until the entire Board does . You can get in trouble that way . We should be looking for some of the things that will come up on this subdivision . Z . Kane : That ' s what we were supposed to do tonight , - - review our subdivision regulations . G . Totman : If I call a meeting , what are we supposed to have from him ? Z . Kane : 2 copies of the sketch plan and we have to have them 10 days ahead of time and has to comply with the characteristics of the land and name the owners of the adjacent properties , - tax map sheet showing - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - , all the utilities available , either proposed , mapped or built . What ' s there and what he intends to do . Pattern of lot showing re - creation areas , sewage and water supplies , any easements , covenants , zoning lines or any restrictions and I am supposed to have two copies of this 10 days before the meeting . This is on page 32 of the subdivision ordinance . G . Totman : Now , - - did you find in there that he has to have his fee at that time ? Z . Kane : No . D . Payne : This is preliminary . G . Totman : From his sketch plan we can give him a general idea of whether it looks feasible or not and then he goes ahead and makes his formal application with his fee . Z . Kane read aloud pages 6 and 7 of the subdivision ordinance in this connection . D . Payne : Our first job is to determine whether it is a major or minor sub - division . Right ? Z . Kane : Right . G . Totman : Basically what he is going to be looking for , when he comes in , is to see whether there is anything in our minds that might hold him up from getting it completely . Z . Kane : He has 6 months before he has to put in the other one . G . Totman : I ' m sure he ' ll do it quicker than that . Z . Kane : Otherwise he has to start over again . G . Totman : He indicated that he was in a hurry . According to the rules if we follow them to a T . he has to give them to us 10 days before our regular monthly meeting and if we follow that his sketch plan will come in at the November meeting and then give him tentative approval or O . K . and then he comes back with regular plan and we have 30 days to - 4 - hold a public hearing and 45 more days to give him our approval . Z . Kane : It can be done sooner than that . G . Totman : This one doesn ' t seem to be anywheres as hairy to me as the one on top of the hill . Some discussion was held on this by all present . R . Gleason : Suppose , though , he just goes up there and surveys out one lot and gets approval to build a house on it . Z . Kane : What do you mean? He has a right to do that because he owns it but he can ' t go on and keep building on the same lot . R . Gleason : But until he gets to the fourth one , - -what we could say to him is look you can build one house but you darn well better put in an application before you do any more building and get our approval but there ' s no reason to stop him if he wants to build one house . D . Payne : The reason he plans to build them one at a time is to sell one and then build another and sell it and so on . G . Totman : Right . We ' re looking at it to see whether it is to the benefit of the Town and not detrimental to the Town . Z . Kane : That ' s exactly right . D . Payne : Not only for the benefit of the Town but also for the intended purchasers . R . Gleason : It seems to me when you come right down to it that to crowd that many houses in that little space , - - the next thing you 'know there will be water or sewage problems and then there ' s no public service there other than electricity , - - as a matter of fact I ' d question whether the light company would have power enough for that . Z . Kane : I question that too . Some discussion was held on this by all . G . Totman : When he makes his application the regulations require him to submit a map of his entire land holdings and what he proposes to do with them and that would take care of what you ' re going to say if,. he only wants to build one house now . Supposing he buys 4 acres of land and builds a house and sells it on an acre of land , and then builds another one on the other one , - -he ' s fine until he comes to the fourth house when he will become a subdivision and won ' t be able to do anything with it . D . Payne : George , you mean we would have no control over a minor subdivision ? G . Totman : I didn ' t say that . D . Payne : George said that one he reaches the fourth house then we would have control . If he built one house , sold it and then built another house would he then become a minor subdivision ? - 5 - Z . Kane : Minor is any subdivision containing two or more is a subdivision ? Right ? D . Payne : The way I read the subdivision I feel he would , - -maybe I ' m wrong . G . Totman : What I meant was , - - I should have said 2 instead of 3 . Roger was saying supposing Mr . Wall did not call me and din ' t do anything , - - just bought the land , built a house on it and sold it and then built another house . I feel until , - - in fact I talked to Ben Bucko one night and Ben got the law book out and showed me where once he went into 4 houses ( State calls 4 a major subdivision) he auto - matically becomes a subdivision and then has to have everything approved under the subdivision regulations so if he has gone that far and the Planning Board says you have not complied then they can take him to task for it , - -not let him build any more because now he has become a major subdivision . Z . Kane : This particular man has been honest in talking to you ahead of time of his intentions . G . Totman : I inquired what he does for a living and he works for some construction company and is doing this as a separate little project of his own . Has bought the land and plans on putting a house up and using the money for its sale to build other houses . We have complained we have no such things going on , - - of course it would depend on the type of houses he is going to put up . Z . Kane : We shouldn ' t take a negative approach but we don ' t want to be trapped like we were before . G . Totman : What other notes did you make that may be pertinent to what we are talking about ? Z . Kane : That ' s all , - - about the sketch plan and preliminary plan . Do you want to go on to the preliminary plan ? That ' s the one he has to send in within 6 months after the sketch plan has been approved if he wants either a major or minor subdivision , then he has to sub - mit his application , - - that ' s also covered in Article 5 Section 3 . D . Payne : Has anything been done , - - there are places in here where it says charges for . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Planning Board that have only got suggested figures and costs and I think all this should be completed as we are at the stage now where we are starting to get applications . How about on page 2 , item 4 . Date for adoption by Planning Board and approval by the Town Board ? Z . Kane : He ' s right , - - that ' s never been approved . G . Totman : Yes it has , - -when he gets new copies made up they should be in there . We made this up and the Planning Board submitted it to the Town Board and had to have a public hearing on it before we did it which we held and when we gave it to the Town Board they passed and approved it and instead of filling in the dates just took our copies and sent them to the printers . D . Payne : There ' s another thing should be put in the subdivision ordinance , - - any place where there ' s a fee it should be put in there that the fee for application is not refundable . - 6 - G . Totman : Yes , we should put that in . D . Payne : Another thing should be brought up is the amount of the fees , - - are they enough ? When you stop and think about it just a little bit , - - I assume Ben Bucko is paid for meetings he attends on these subdivisions and we have to pay for advertising public hearings and so on . More discussion was held on this by all present . G . Totman : I don ' t have anything else to bring up except making you aware of what has been happening . Unless I hear differently on the 18th of October Frank Liguori will be here to explain the County Planning Board to us at 8 P . M . Z . Kane said she would phone the members who were not at this evening ' s meeting and remind them of this meeting . Z . Kane : I move we adjourn . R . Gleason : I second the motion . The motion was carried . Respectfully submitted , Josephine Bell - 7 -